Bill Nye Saved My World

>>82055182
>one of the greatest minds in the world

>>82055182
Dude please privatize my health care also education is a liberal conspiracy to take our guns lmao

More like:

Bill Nye Destroys the Western world

Ammirite?

>>82055182
Cuz his sex junk is so OH OH OH much more than either OR OH OH

Don't be such a BIGOT

>>82055182
>one of the greatest minds in the world

Oh fuck I didn't expect to get this angry.

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>>82055182
>one of the greatest minds in the world

i hope this is one of those /pol/ false flags

SCIENCE

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>>82055182
>I made a new thread

>>82055182
>one of the greatest minds in the world

He's an actor and a failed comedian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVn-yuobpfk

>>82055182
>dude I can't get a date because the jews are giving girls unrealistic expectations why won't they date nice guys like me lmao

>>82055182
literally redit

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>>82055182
>one of the greatest minds in the world

>>82055182
Please return to reddit

>>82055182
fuck straight white cis males

>>82055287
http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/business/.premium-1.638160

>It's an Israeli company

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>>82055182
Science was a mistake.

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>>82055182

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>>82055292
>dating girls
*titters*

>>82055430
Global warming will kill most of them.

>>82055182
>I love science when it validates me

>>82055584
>"""""""""science""""""""""

>>82055569
>global warming will send most of them flooding into Europe and America as "climate refugees"
ftfy

>>82055292
get out you disgusting cis scum
Boys dating girls is wrong, SCIENCE says so.
Everyone should just fuck indiscriminately

>gender is now a hobby

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>>82055182
multiple genders are still real to me, dammit.

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haha! we're really showing those kikes! #maga!

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>bashfultransboi
Every day we stray further from God

>>82055182
This can' t be real

>episode 9
>first episode they watched
Is this person mentally ill? Who doesn't start from the beginning??

>>82055182
>"Bill saved my world by attempting to validate my mental illness"

imagine someone being so useless that they cling on to their gender identity like its the only thing they have

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>>82055182
>It's not FOR YOU.

Oh I see, it's for the 0.01% who are trans?

Nah who are you kidding? It's for the vast majority of lefties who aren't 100% SJW. It's another purity test, another false dichotomy where you either uncritically accept all the garbage they throw at you, or you're a nazi.

Here's a brain teaser for you:

If the grand "scientific" part of the argument is that because it exists, it's natural; because there's nothing wrong with wanting to be another gender, it's ok to use surgery and hormones to be what you want, how come we don't chop the limbs off people who want to be handicapped?

Think about it. Kids are born with genetic malfunctions that cause them to be limbless. This is exactly how they want you to believe the existence of genetic chromosomal mutations means there's no such thing as gender. So it must also be true you're not "supposed" to have four functioning limbs.

If someone is "transabled", it's not just a mental illness problem, because "homosexuality used to be too, and transgenderism used to be too".

Why shouldn't you be allowed some simple procedures to cut your own legs off if you identify as wheelchair bound?

>>82055182
>someone repeated my self delusional lies back to me
purge when?

>>82055182

"gender is determined by your chromosomes" - Bill Nye

>>82057985
They're transgender, they're obviously batshit nuts

/tv/ - Triggered: The Board

>>82058074
who gives a shit if some retard cuts his arm off

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>>82055182

Come on, this is obviously satirical


right?

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>>82055182

>one of the greatest minds in the world

?

>>82055182
>one of the greatest minds in the world
Somehow that line made me realize their delusion moreso than the "I'm trans" line.

>>82057985
WOW SHITLORD WHO SAYS EPISODE 1 IS THE BEGINNING CHECK YOUR COUNT PRIVILEGE

Or something along those lines

>>82058074
"we're here for the job interview senpai"

>>82055182

>George Soros buys 30% of Netflix

>Gets shitted up with retarded sjw crap

>Horror and Sci-Fi catalogue still fucking barren of a big back log of movies

Thanks Obama.

>>82058489
haha big black log

>>82055182
OH LOOK. A REDDIT SCREENCAP.
Maybe we could talk about 4chan instead ?

You know, make memes on 4chan, not on reddit ?

>>82055182

That reddit post is a blatant /pol/ fun poster.

Daily reminder that the people that unironically think in terms of words like "/pol/tard" sound like this: https://youtu.be/7ouVmVXwXnc

Next time you read some autistic incoherent garbage like "Y'ALL TOXIC BLUMPFKIN THE_DONALD POLTARD INTOLERSNT TOXIC ZRGRUMPF SNOWFLAKE" just imagine that effeminate pathetic voice mumbling it over a computer monitor angrily.
You're welcome sweetie :)

>>82055287
No fucking shit, 4chan has been sold out since ages ago and you should only still be here because it's larger in numbers. When the time comes you know where to go.

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>>82055219
>one of the greatest minds in the world
>some random guy who got a B.S in engineering, worked for a couple of as a low level engineer and moved on to become a full time actor

>>82058516
That's what's in my wife right now

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>>82055232
>privatize my health care
Yes please.
i want inexpensive quality healthcare.

>>82055182
(((social science))) is not real science.

>all nye viral threads being destroyed.
ruh oh

Sex isn't a spectrum

Male
Female
Super duper rare physical birth defect

All 3 are separate entities

>>82057885

>Still on the Le Trump meme

You're about 3 months too late.

>>82057985
This person is obsessed with their sexuality because they found a group of people online who only care about them because of their sexuality. They've fully bought into the idea that overt sexuality is the new black, and only consume media that conforms to this idea. They don't care about the rest of the show, only what they have to say about sex

>>82055182
Trannies should die desu.

>>82058588
It is "gender" now

>>82058354

>If you discuss TV shows on /tv/ you are triggered

Hmmm.

>>82055232
>privatize healthcare
You mean like in Switzerland? The best healthcare system in the world.
Really cheap and no waiting lines.

do i have to get netflix to watch this

>>82058534
keked. Not surprised tbqhwyfamalam

>>82058688

Do you know what a torrent is?

wtf is "T 1/8"

>>82058354
I don't get how people aren't triggered by this. This show is probably the worst sjw shit I've ever seen

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>all these altright babies not believin' in dem evil devil science

Off yourselves.

>>82058724

Aperture?

>>82058074
I think op meant it's not intended for adults but for 10-14yo's to watch in the classroom

>>82058738

...can I ask...why would one even watch a show about the pseudoscience of cross dressers in the first place?

>>82055182
>greatest minds in the world

Nobody actually believes this right?

>>82058625

Nye said sex is a spectrum

>>82055182
He didn't use science to prove shit

>>82058747

Isn't it Alt-Right babies complaining about science denier Bill Nye?

Trans "science" is as comical as "intelligent design"

>>82058747
>"everyone to the right of me is alt-right!"
you're a class-s moron

>>82058794
Nye is also a good goy

>>82058074
>not wanting a dick and a cunt and tits all in the same body
you're a dinosaur pal

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>>82058534
Daily reminder that people who unironically post on /pol/ look like this

>>82058672
>Really cheap


Good one.

I watched it.

You should too.

It was hilarious.

This shit is full blown God's Not Dead tier retardation.

>>82058588
The distinction between gender and sex is the distinction between socially and culturally created roles on the one side (gender) and the biological categories of male/female on the other side (sex). Gender is a constructed series of roles probably growing out of how the different sexes needed to act in a tribal setting. Given that in a hunter-gatherer tribe a female often has a baby on her hip to feed it and therefor cannot really hunt, she is typically given the role of gathering food and herbs for the tribe. There are other more specific examples of the way females and males must live differently in such tribes, due to their physiological differences and the fact that females are the ones that must give birth. Gender roles, such as they are, likely sprang from this natural, near-animalistic system. I say male and female, because gender is not really something these tribes exhibit.Gender exists in the same way money exists. It's a very useful humanwide fabrication for large societies, an abstraction of something culturally important- with money, it is trade value. With gender, it is one's societal role.
I would think the current explosion of gender expression in the west as equally "valid" as whatever cultural or societal shift led to, say, the two-spirits of the hopi, or the hijra of pakistan. There are other examples of societies that remove themselves from the rigid gender dichotomy that most hold to, for one reason or another. Often third-genders become a class of people that deal with a specific role or job. There are other ways of dealing with that societal need, of course, this is just one adaptation of many possible. But it is one. This specific explosion if I had to guess is a response to loosening of the "gender role", meaning that gender doesn't actually MEAN much anymore. Less rigidity.I haven't really read enough of the relevant literature to speak on the subject of transgender folk specifically.

>dare I say
7/10 almost believed it was a genuine post

>>82058784
are you inplying that anyone here even watched a single episode? several clips were posted online that told you everything you needed to know

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>>82058852

>>not wanting a dick and a cunt and tits all in the same body

Just the one? Open your fucking mind dude.

I'm getting double 11" dicks and three tits and I'll put the cunt in my armpit.

>>82058588
The idea is genitals and gender are now two independent concepts. So the next time you need to fill in a form that asks for your Sex, you need to write "penis" instead of "man". If gender, "fa'afafine" is now an option.

>>82058074
autism

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>>82058863

Nope.

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>>82058880
>gender is a social construct

No, it arises from human instincts. We're fucking hard wired for these things.
Why do you retards commit the blank slate fallacy ALL THE FUCKING TIME?

You believe in pseudoscience.

>>82058880
Gender is tied to sex and vice versa. You would think that after generations of a specific task being gender specific, it would lead to the promotion of genetic traits in the same sex. Like males being give the hunter roles which lead to males that are stronger and faster being ideal mates and those traits being passed to their offspring. To completely separate is about as idiotic as it is ignorant.

Just so we are clear, in 2017, we have split sex into sex (biological), gender (social) and sexuality (attraction). It is fucking insane. The worst part is goys like Bill using these terms interchangeably. They are not.

>>82058913
filled out a government form the other day, and it asked for gender. the options were Male and Female. those are terms for sex, not gender. therefore sex and gender are still synonymous by classification standards.

>>82058865
If you are swiss it is really cheap.
There are also no waiting lines. The doctors wait on YOU.

Taxes are also low there.
Based free market switzerland.

>>82058863
>44222222226.jpg
>he's back

>>82059031
>>82058880
Gender is not a social construct.

Why do you believe human instincts are somehow socially constructed?
my fuck you people are dumb

>>82058074
that exists, senpai. People choose to lose limbs. Its a thing and there is surgery to remove the part

>>82059021
>it arises from human instincts
So? It's a social construct arises from "human instincts".

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>>82055182

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>>82055182
>FOR YOU

>>82059123
>>82059113
Hivemind

>>82059077
>Why do you believe human instincts are somehow socially constructed?
Nice straw man.

>>82059108
Then it's not a social construct.
It's a instinctual construct.
People act the way they do because they're hardwired to do so. Culture can only influence this a little bit.

>>82055182
I would think someone who had watched science shows "since the womb" would at least know bajillion is not a real number

>>82059077
Gender has ties to social construct at the being of tribalism. Over generations, it has become tied to genetics due to breeding. Right now people are trying to separate the two again and undo thousands upon thousands years of evolution.

>>82058863
Sorry, I know that it's only natural that you're born with such a feminine voice and there's nothing you can do about it. I really shouldn't bully you for sounding like mumbly beta manchild.

>>82055182
>those uses of exclamation marks
Why do redditors sound like lunatics?

>>82059152
its not a strawman
you people deny human instincts exist

>>82059174
>Gender has ties to social construct at the being of tribalism.
Wrong. Tribalism was even MORE instinctual than today. Life was really basic and people relied on their instincts more than anything.

>>82058880

Gender is a grammatical term appropriated to replace "sex" when that word became commonly associated with copulation.

Bill Nye used the term "sex". He in a sense invalidates your newer appropriation of the term (that is used to describe what we previously held to be a sexual fetish) and reverts it to it's early 20th century form.

Which is ironically argued against by "SJW's" (who prefer your recent interpretation) because the manner in which Nye used it is so ridiculous and anti-science that it leaves the concept open to ridicule and scorn.

>>82059077
>we have split sex into sex (biological), gender (social)
It's was in anthropology since always.

>>82058534
.5?

>>82059107
>that exists, senpai. People choose to lose limbs.

In most countries this is highly illegal because wanting this is seen as clear mental illness and doctors are not allowed to do harm to their patients.

I'm not sure where you see this happening but I'm sure we'll get there eventually anyway, because "progress" can't ever stop, and this is why the slippery slope will keep on slipping.

Any of you still believing they won't make pedosexual a thing need to know they've already launched trial balloons defending it in lefty mags.

>>82059207
>appeal to authority
nice fallacy

>>82058865
US taxpayers still pay for public healthcare in the form of things like ERs, and because people wait until the problems are at their most critical state we end up actually spending as much per person for health care with taxes as do other nations that have an entirely public healthcare system. And on top of that, the average person in the US still pays towards their own private healthcare plan, at a much higher rate than most countries with public systems pay with their taxes alone. In the US we absolutely pay more and get less than many, many other countries. Not that their aren't other factors, but the only reason anybody would believe that our system is better than switzerland's is because they have an ideological belief that privatized industries are necessarily better than public ones, and aren't willing to acknowledge that there are places where things are factually better.

>>82059205
Are you fucking stupid? At beginning of tribes, people had to decide what roles each member of the tribe was supposed to hold or do you think they did whatever they fucking wanted?

>>82059205
>you people deny human instincts exist
dude, nice straw man or false dilemma, whatewer.

>>82059042
Yeah, which is why we want to revolutionize the standard

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>>82059244
>>82058865
The government is the sole reason healthcare is expensive in the united states.
It used to be extremely cheap and accessible in the 1950s and 1960s.

You CAN'T refute this.
We need to go back to free market healthcare.
Rand Paul put in the first good steps to going back to this type of system but Trump and Paul Ryan cucked him.

Fucking Decpticons everywhere

>>82058880
>Gender is a constructed series of roles probably growing out of how the different sexes needed to act in a tribal setting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Reimer

>>82059261
>people had to decide what roles each member of the tribe was supposed to hold
Uhhh no.
Their instincts determined that. It's pretty fucking simple.

>>82059274
It's not a strawman.
The fact human instincts exist destroy your notion of gender being a social construct.
People operate in gender roles mostly because of their instincts.

>>82058534
Or this guy LMFAO
https://youtu.be/rQ1of2aD4aM

>>82059021
>No, it arises from human instincts. We're fucking hard wired for these things.

Are you saying that you think human instincts always guide us to what is true and good?

>>82059207

No.

It's not even "official" in many circles.

Gender up until recently was used to refer to biological sex, and even that use of the word is relatively "modern".

>>82058534
Kek

>>82059077

missed..... was for
>>82059031

>>82058880
>>82059274
>>82059261
Why when there is more female hormones in the womb the child will turn out gay or trans?
Care to explain that shit?
It's not a social construct, it's genetic and biological.
The kid will start wanting to play will dolls and wear pink and talk with a lisp at a young age, even if the father doesn't want him doing this.

>>82059317

>David Reimer

Unironically triggered.

>unironically use the word "boi" or any sort of slang
>think I will respect you

stop acting like a literal fuckboi/idiot and maybe I'll take your nonsense serious for more than a moment

>>82058747
>Trannies are completely normal ,cutting your duick off and putting on a woman is all that is to being a women
>gosh cant these POLTARDS stop denying science ugghhh

>>82059333
>Their instincts determined that
No their genetic traits determined that you moron. If you are not fit and strong enough to hunt, no matter how much your instincts tell you to hunt, you are not going to make it. Your shit is as psuedoscience as whatever crap Bill peddles

>>82058913

Yeah, but Nye said SEX is a spectrum, not gender.

I can see the argument for gender, which is whether you like girl or boy things, and that's always had names; tomboys and sissies, and the various shades of that

But sex itself, is solid. There's no spectrum here. You're male or female (or super rare deformed).

>>82059355
Yes

>>82059293
revolutionize =/= change the rules so it legitimizes a mental illness

although the only successful treatment so far for gender dysphoria has been transitioning so do what you want I guess

>>82059394
Gender is NOT sexuality. Stop promoting degeneracy by mixing all those together. I can like to watch girly shows and STILL want to fuck girls.

>>82059394

Sounds like pseudoscience to me bud.

>being a fag means you can use magic to change genders

I don't doubt that trannies are by and large mentally ill homosexuals. More mentally ill, I mean.

>>82058863
>its a mumbly beta manchild with a voice of a 9 year old throws a hissy fit episode

>>82059346
>that voice
>that video

SWEDEN
YES

>>82059445

Transitioning has no higher success rate than not Transitioning.

It just makes the mental illness more tolerable for a bit longer.

>>82059446
this is why they say it is a spectrum. To classify people like who, who are straight with feminine tendencies, to other people who are straight with masculine tendencies

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>netflix
>even being aware of this show

What's the actual endgame here? Letting them use whatever bathroom they want? Fuck it, let them, public toilets are gross anyway.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole "social construct" argument seems to imply men and women are separated by society based on their biology, which isn't right, and we should instead put everyone on an equal footing, allowing them to identify as whatever they would like to. That's all well and good, only it's going to fuck them over in the end when biological women can't compete in things like sports and any affirmative action is wiped clean. That'll be the next step after all, "race" is a social construct.

>>82059346
Goddamn I hate these cucs

>>82059446
stfu gayboy trying to subject our righteous and intellectual thread with perversion

>>82059446

Yeah, and they're starting to say that sex is now a spectrum and the same thing as gender.

I saw it coming, really, when they started calling people taking drugs and whatnot "transgender".

>>82059504
Which is not sexuality and has nothing to do with being gay or trans. Fucking hell. REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

>>82055287
I always fucking forget that moot is a kike. Of course people like this guy would be a mod on this site...

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>>82059346
>racemixing is good
>but only for black men and white women

>>82058863
Lol that's what you tell yourself.

>>82059551
>moot

who

>>82059517

They want the world to be one giant mall. Heavily policed. No disruptions or disputes. Everyone benign and behaved and shopping and working for the lowest rate imaginable.

A sort of beige utopia. A giant global kindergarten.

I mean, it has it's appeal.

If you can accept dudes who like to dress as women and guys who occasionally run kids over with trucks or you can deal with shit like WW2 flaring up every few decades, what do you choose?

>>82059421
something to bear in mind:
the idea that sex is a spectrum stems from the idea that gender is a social construct. those two ideas need to co-exist in order to work.

take for example, someone who might be attracted to a person who looks and identifies as a petite woman but has a penis. you could argue that they're more straight than a person who is attracted to a person who looks and identifies as a large man but with a vagina.

Sex and sexuality in this case, isn't just binary aka a spectrum.

>>82059659
But sex isn't a fucking spectrum. You are either XX or XY. That is like saying Yes or No is a spectrum.

>>82059333
>gender roles is not exist
>people operate in gender roles
alright, you are a just brainless troll.

>>82059542

Interesting tactic though.

1. Sex and Gender mean the same thing

2. Start saying Gender is different from sex and means X.

3. Now start refering to Sex as X too and because of part 1, maybe people will buy it.

>1. Up/Elevate

>2. Elevate actually means "lower, down - it's really about the act of movement"

>3. Up is Down

Anyway, it's now Science Denial to say men can't change into women with magic thoughts. Suck it up Nazi

>>82059517
don't "gender neutral" restrooms already exist in the form of family restrooms though? why can't people just use those instead if they're confused on where to shit n piss?

>>82059707
What I don't get is that libcucks believe in evolution and that we're all just apes but apes only have two genders. So then why the fuck do humans have more than two?

sex/gender =/= sexual inclination

This is the actual fallacy.

>>82059659

It's pretty binary.

They are attracted to a man that looks like a woman. The same way a bird will skip over eating a fish that looks like a rock. It doesn't mean he's not a fish eater, it just means he thought the fish was a rock.

>>82059770
People need to fight the big bad boogeyman and see gender neutral restrooms as a sort of step forward to whatever they perceive as victory.

>>82059805
They don't. The fact that this idea even floats at all shows we are in the weimar republic timeline.

>>82059707
I don't disagree with that. All I was pointing out was that you can't agree that gender is a construct and disagree that sex is a spectrum. They're not necessarily exclusive, and rely on each other to make any sort of argument.

>>82059394
You are mixing sex basrd social role and human sexuality.

>>82059300
Yes you can. The science and practice of exploitation of commodities that have an inelasticity of demand has developed quite a bit over the last seventy years, there's no way it would look the same now even if the government had never gotten involved. Imagine a single pharmaceutical company had a patent on a drug that cures leukemia. Even if it were extremely cheap to produce, they could charge people with leukemia whatever they wanted, because people will pay any amount they can to stay alive. If you have a product who's demand doesn't fluctuate in relation to price, you can exploit that. It's one of many pretty basic flaws in pure free market systems that happen every day. It's simply not a perfect system. And I'm not saying socialism is perfect either, but I think to argue that literally everything should be motivated by profit is pretty demonstrably stupid. If you wan't to talk about things that can't be refuted, consider this.

The only way that insurance works is if there are more people paying into it than are getting paid out of it. There have to be more patrons than patients, or there is no funding. Right now there are millions of people that aren't paying into the pool right now, but when it comes to life threatening emergencies, they still take out of the money pool with trips to the ER. By eliminating insurance companies, and having literally everybody pay into the pool through taxation, we can increase the number of patrons without changing the amount of people getting sick. The math simply works. Not to mention, we can see it working in other countries.

By the way, your source counts the FDA as a bad thing. I'm not saying there are aspects of it that couldn't be made more efficient, but do you really agree that having no regulations on how companies that are motivated purely by profit goes about introducing new drugs to the public market?

>>82059911
If they try link those 2 together their argument will instantly collapse as long as they don't try to redefine the definition of sex as determined by our chromosomes.

>>82059805
Because some of human societies has more than two genders?

>>82059989
Then why don't animals?

>>82058622
everybody dies though

>>82059989
Which?

>>82055182
If I wanted to read reddid posts I'd go there.

>>82059989

Name one.

>>82060051
We're all just predecessors with short lives and no meaning put on this earth to ensure the immortal humans come into being. Any day now the first immortal will be born.

>>82055287
> i reddit
Accurate

>>82060013
Well they wouldn't really have the language to confirm something like this either way, but there are animals that develop homosexual relationships, and there are animals that can alter their biological sex in response to their environmental needs.

I don't understand how you think you're making any sort of point by acknowledging that human society is far more complex than any animal society you could even begin to compare it to. Really very stupid, in a low IQ sense of the word.

>>82059978
>as long as they don't try to redefine the definition of sex as determined by our chromosomes

in most debates I've seen, the pro-trans sides always seem to be doing just that. they'll start throwing in factors other than chromosomes like estrogen/testosterone levels.

>>82058534
no surprises here lad.

>>82055182
what is it with these people and branding right-wingers as 'gamers'

wtf why did this become a thing. read the comments of this dumb thread and there's one talking about 'gamer friends'. why are gamers associated with this stuff now.

i don't even play vidya i just don't get it, since when did not being a leftie and being a gamer become synonymous

>>82060189
Of course they do. It is disgusting.

>>82060232
Gamergate bullshit.

>>82055287

Proving once again that mods are indeed fags.

>>82060169
Homosexual relationships by definition are devolutionary. As for some animals having the ability to change sex in order to reproduce, how is that an argument for humans? We don't do it on a biological level but a technological one.

Transexuality is a thing only because we have the technology to do it.

>>82059709
where did I say gender roles didn't exist?
you idiot

>>82058880
>>82058880
>>82058880
>The distinction between gender and sex is the distinction between socially and culturally created roles on the one side (gender) and the biological categories of male/female on the other side (sex).

Absolute Bullshit. Evidence? The Animal Kingdom.

>INB4 FALLACY OF NATURE

Look at Lions, wolves, and all social apes like Chimps, Gorillas, and Bonobos. All have social constructs. HECK look at social insects like ants and bees. They have "queens" and "sisters." All roles are ingrained in the sexes of these animals. NONE OF THESE ANIMALS ARE AWARE OF GENDER/SEX!! Get that through your thick skull!! Animals have no concept of "culture." They practice gender rolls instinctively and biologically.

Humans are no exception as they are 99% Chimpanzee. Chimps have huge social roles based on genders. Yet none are aware of "culture."

Your entire argument is baseless. There is no evidence of what you speak. All evidence is in the DNA, chromosomes, and social animals. Especially the animals close to humans. Your argument is invalid.

All your beliefs are cultural marxism. As usual, you will ignore all evidence or try to minimize it as unimportant.

>>82058074
Nah nigga. It's more like, "why can't I identify as a child and then hang around children discovering each other's sexuality, even though I used to be 40 :)"

>>82060084
>>82060107
The United States. Gender referring literally to just the way people feel inside, any society in which people choose to make more distinctions than the traditional binary system is a society that has more than two genders. Don't conflate it with biological sex, honestly whoever decided to first refer to genders with the same words we already used to distinguish biological sexes needs to be punched in the mouth, because it causes people on both sides of the issue to merely talk past each other.

Sex is biological and cannot at this time be altered by how you feel inside. In this sense, the right is correct.

However, gender as it is used now describes a completely different thing, i.e. how you feel inside. So as stupid as it might get, there are legitimately infinite potential genders. In that sense the left is correct.

The problem is that somebody applied the words male and female to gender, and now everybody thinks of gender under those terms, which are completely inadequate to describe the actual idea it refers to.

>>82059927
>there's no way it would look the same now even if the government had never gotten involved.
This is a pile of horseshit and you know it.
I just posted countless examples of what has caused the price of healthcare to go up.
Prices are supposed to naturally come down in a free market.

>Imagine a single pharmaceutical company had a patent on a drug that cures leukemia.
lmao there are no patents in a free market

>your source counts the FDA as a bad thing.
It's a horrible thing that has killed millions of people. Killed many more people through restricting medicine than it has saved through safety.

>but do you really agree that having no regulations on how companies that are motivated purely by profit goes about introducing new drugs to the public market?
3rd party testing agencies would dominate the market
and reputable doctors would only prescribe tested drugs

>>82060169
Animals fuck the first thing they see whenever they're horny or when they have the instinctual desire to breed, not because they may be attracted to the same sex.
Also, since when have apes been able to change their sex? Last I checked, there has never been an ape that has changed gender.
Your posts read like a typical tumblrite pseudo-intellectual, but your understanding of the world is completely juvenile. You make arguments based on your feelings and on FACTS.

>>82059438
Ok so I'm talking to a retard then, got it.

>>82060303
even then, you can't put a fully functioning vagina on someone who's biologically male. So the technology isn't totally there.

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>>82055182
>mfw real geniuses like Linus Pauling will go unnoticed in the mainstream because any number of idiots like Bill Nye are out jerking off liberal sensitivities and making more retards who dismiss climate change and evolution because science "communicators" made a poor argument for them on TV or Youtube

>>82060400
and not on FACTS*

Fuck I'm tired...

The thing is, I was (still am? maybe?) on the side of fluid gender etc. But all of this Bill Nye shit is just over the top bullshit and I don't want to be associated with it

They wonder why people hate the left. Take a look in the fucking mirror.

>>82060169

Homosexuals do not belong to a third gender. Hermaphrodites do not belong to a third gender, they are an anomaly that is vanishingly rare in the vertebrate world and they simply display sexual characteristics of both genders.

There are only two genders in biology, and there is no scientific basis behind making up a technical distinction between the words "gender" and "sex".

Transsexuals are literally delusional.

>>82058863
That guy on the left is a mexican though.

>>82060385
And I am fine with that. What I have a problem is when gender start spilling into the sex which is what the left decided to do. Kid likes to play with barbie? Time to cut his dick off. This is NOT okay. Society is trying to normalize this and it is fucking insane. People understand innately that gender is a spectrum. There will be some guys that are more masculine and into "guy" things than other guys. That is okay. What is not okay is when people try to blur the lines between gender and sex and use it as an excuse to enable mental illnesses.

>>82059355
That would be the human conscience. The same conscience that tells us that living by the laws of nature, laws of thermodynamics, and the laws of motion are healthy for us.

Human conscience tells us that gender-benders are sick in the head, evil, and must be avoided just as much as any other plague carrier. The same disgust you feel when you see a human covered in boils or a dog covered in parasites is the same we get from seeing homosexuals and trans of all kind. It is a protection for us to stay away from such disease. Homosexuality and trans is mental and moral disease. The laws of nature don't agree with them so that's why nature punishes us with feelings of shame which lead to their suicide. Suicide is not "society being oppressive." Suicide is NATURE BEING OPPRESSIVE. Not our problem nature considers them an error that must be erased.

>>82060518
Gender is not a spectrum. Your sexual orientation has NOTHING to do with your gender. Sex and gender are synonymous.
The ONLY exception are people born with both a penis and a vagina.

>>82060385
sex and gender have been synonymous for a while now. before the 1950's if I recall, gender was just the aspect of language used to associate and describe sex - think pronouns and such. then the concept of gender being separate was introduced.

>>82060576
Sexual orientation has nothing to do with your gender. Gender here is being used as in gender roles or norms within society. That is the proper way it should be used anyway. A guy can be feminine without being gay or a female.

>>82055182
>episode 9
>first episode I watched
>9
>first

this is the most rage inducing part of the post

>>82060385

>However, gender as it is used now
>Gender referring literally to just the way people feel inside

Gender is not "how you feel inside". That's the whole problem with your retarded argument. Gender is 100% the same as biological sex.

>The problem is that somebody applied the words male and female to gender

Male and female are concepts integral to the concept of gender. Non-binary gender is a nonsensical concept which serves no purpose. If there are infinite genders, why do we even need to assign gender to anything?

Male and female have ALWAYS applied to gender, the definition of gender as "how you feel" has only even existed since feminist philosophers made it up in the 1970s.

>which are completely inadequate to describe the actual idea it refers to

Go ahead, I dare you to try and describe the "actual idea" of gender without making any reference to the fundamentally binary nature of human "biological sex".

>>82060668
You pretty much just rephrased what I just said...

>>82058393
if he got that way because he got told since kindergarten that it is totally normal to have your arm cut of if you don´t like it anymore then it is a giant problem for us all

>>82060753
No you said sex and gender was synonymous. They are synonymous in usage by most of society before 2000s before it got perverted. But really they are 2 different things that happen to become synonymous because a lot of time they co-aligned.

>>82060386
>Prices are supposed to naturally come down in a free market.

See, this is how I know you're just arguing from an ideological standpoint.

In an actual free market there's nothing to prevent a monopoly. A monopoly breaks the supply demand curve. If you aren't smart enough to recognize that there are real exploitable flaws in that system from the get go then you aren't ready to even have this conversation. First, get rid of the notion that it's automatically correct just because it makes sense to you on a piece of paper. I want you to respond to this directly, because I know you're going to cherrypick if I don't put this in here. Do you recognize that there are ways in which a pure free market system can be exploited?

>lmao there are no patents in a free market
Fair enough, given that there are many different theoretical versions of a free market, I'll grant you that there are iterations that don't incorporate patents. That being said, I'm not convinced that getting rid of patenting altogether wouldn't have huge unforeseen consequences that you're not considering, but I haven't researched that so if you have thoughts on that already I'd be interested in hearing them.

>It's a horrible thing that has killed millions of people. Killed many more people through restricting medicine than it has saved through safety.

Pure speculation.

>and reputable doctors would only prescribe tested drugs

This is another ideological statement that has no real world evidence to back it up. It assumes that doctors, who are simply people who are again motivated by profit in this hypothetical, and it also assumes that people are informed enough to reliably pick ethical doctors, and that there would be crazy amounts of misinformation and manipulative marketing strategies. In an unregulated free market, there would be doctors prescribing heroin, which is something that ACTUALLY USED TO HAPPEN dummy.

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>>82058863
Why do you do the Jew's work for him anon?

>>82060813
They're the same thing in my eyes. You think i care what libcuck degenerates changed the word into?

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>>82060824
In a real free market there isn't a shitload of red tape and regulation that keeps you from starting up your own competition.

>>82055182

>greatest minds in the world

This is /pol/tards fucking with reddos no?

>>82060971
Okay. I don't give a fuck about your narrow minded views anyway.

>>82060400
>Last I checked, there has never been an ape that has changed gender.

When did I say anything about apes? You asked about animals, which is a much broader things. Not to mention, you do know that evolution theories don't posit that humans came directly from apes right? Not that that has anything to do with the conversation.
>Animals fuck the first thing they see whenever they're horny or when they have the instinctual desire to breed, not because they may be attracted to the same sex.

>You make arguments based on your feelings and on FACTS.

Setting aside the irony, let's address that first one. Horniness is derived from attraction, regardless of how rational it is from a reproductive standpoint. If an animal fucks another animal of the same sex, it's attraction to it is a prerequisite.

>>82060824
>See, this is how I know you're just arguing from an ideological standpoint.
No, arguing from empirical data.
Look at the gilded age.

>In an actual free market there's nothing to prevent a monopoly.
You're joking right?
It's the free market that breaks up monopolies.

>If you aren't smart enough to recognize that there are real exploitable flaws in that system
During the gilded age, countless companies tried to form monopolies and cartels and the market broke them up really quickly, there are countless examples of this happening.

>Do you recognize that there are ways in which a pure free market system can be exploited?
Name some. This should be good.

>I'm not convinced that getting rid of patenting altogether wouldn't have huge unforeseen consequences that you're not considering
Cheaper healthcare and medicines?

>Pure speculation.
Nope.
http://www.fdareview.org/05_harm.php
https://www.forbes.com/forbes/2011/0214/opinions-steve-forbes-fact-comment-fda-may-kill-millions.html
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/09/kill-the-fda-before-it-kills-again.html

>This is another ideological statement that has no real world evidence to back it up.
Okay.
I know I would only use doctors that have been licences from reputable medical schools and only prescribe drugs that have been tested properly.

>which is something that ACTUALLY USED TO HAPPEN dummy.
Yes but people know much better now. Medical knowledge was much less advanced.
If heroin was legalized now almost no doctors would prescribe it.

Healthcare was much much cheaper in the 1950s and 1960s before all this government.

Government is killing innovation, we would probably have artificial hearts and lungs by now and living 10-20 years longer if we allowed free market innovation.
Fucking anti-technology retards.

>>82060169
>>82060169
>but there are animals that develop homosexual relationships

Nature has its fair share of stupidity and error. The argument that homosexuality is "natural" is as valid as saying blindness, deafness, dwarfism and being born with a missing limb is natural. Those things happen in nature too. You're confusing natural with normal. Homosexuality and trans is a handicap. It is as "normal" as being born a blind or paraplegic

The fact that some animals can change their gender is meaningless unless you can prove this is a normal mechanism for apes. It is not.

>>82060303
>>82060497
I don't feel like spelling out the distinction again so I'll refer you to this:

>>82060385


You're conflating sex and gender, when like or not they've come to define two different things.

>>82060993
Lol kill yourself cuckold faggot.

>>82061095
Riveting argument

>>82060385
Then "gender" can mean anything then. Instead of indentifying as a man or woman I could identify as an Apache Helicopter.

Why is this not insanity?

>>82061134
You can feel like you are a Apache helicopter and no one is really stopping you from feeling that way but biologically your sex doesn't change. And yes it is a mental illness. Along with the people that identify as animals or what not.

>>82061030
>it's the free market that breaks up monopolies
Except Standard Oil wasn't broken up by "the free market" it was broken up by trustbusting leglislature. That also occurred during the gilded age that you keep touting as some gold standard of free market enterprise

>>82060518
Sure, I agree that the fact that the left conflates the two as well leads to some stupid shit.

>>82060661
>>82060743
Do you guys know understand the concept of semantics? It doesn't seem that way, so let me explain it. Words are elastic in their definition. Many individual words have multiple definitions. The reason this argument isn't making sense to you is because you're not recognizing that people are using the word gender to refer to an idea that you don't define it as. So before we can continue the conversation, you have to understand that as long as you keep using the word gender to refer to biological sex, the confusion in the conversation comes from the fact that you're not adapting to a more current definition of the word. If it helps you understand the argument, just replace the word gender with any random word sounding thing you want, and define that word as "the way people feel about their sexual identity inside". Because that's the idea that people are using the word gender to describe now. This is what I mean by people talking past each other.

>>82061075

>reply to your post
>you refer me back to the post I replied to

Fuck you. I know that you think "they've come to define two different things", that's exactly what was so wrong with your post.

They don't mean two different things. They are two different words for the same thing.

When you say "I am subverting my gender role by doing X", you are literally saying the same thing as, "I am doing X despite the fact that my sex hormones do not tell me to". Men are biologically programmed to become fathers and protectors, and women are biologically programmed to become mothers and nurturers. No amount of newspeak and mental gymnastics can deny these established facts.

To be clear, I will always defend the right of anybody in my society (which I believe is a free one) to subvert their gender role and live contrary to the way their sex hormones are telling them to. But you can't start insisting that the biological imperative and the social norm aren't integrally connected to one another, because they are. There are two societal gender roles because there are two biological genders, and that is all there will ever be.

>>82061244
>>82061244
So why would people recommend a straight jacket and not helicopter pills? If this is the case then the word "gender" is meaningless. Me identifying as black can be me expressing "gender" as well.

>>82061258
>>82061030
And let's not forget the Carnegies and the Vanderbilts as well. These families exploited your precious free market economy into acquiring monopolies and becoming obscenely wealthy at the expense of everyone else.

>>82061258
>Except Standard Oil wasn't broken up by "the free market"
Actually YES YES IT WAS
Read what actually happened instead of what they teach you in government run schools.

The year before Standard Oil was broken up, the free market got their marketshare down to like 63%. It was rapidly falling because there was so much competition.
Also standard oil were fucking heros that managed to dramatically lower the price of oil for the average working person. The economic productivity his firm created resulted in lower prices and higher wages.
He was never a monopoly. 85% market share isn't a monopoly.

>it was broken up by trustbusting leglislature
There was no reason whatsoever to break up standard oil.

>That also occurred during the gilded age that you keep touting as some gold standard of free market enterprise
Gilded age was the most prosperous time in american history and occurred under a system of mostly free banking and deflation.

>>82061392
>These families exploited your precious free market economy
What?
They were heros that dramatically increased living standards for working class people.
They were also NEVER monopolies. The market is what eventually reduced their marketshare.

>obscenely wealthy at the expense of everyone else.
Oh no, people make money making other people better off, how horrible.
What a dumb argument.

>>82061392
>Carnegies and the Vanderbilts
It's pretty strange how liberals villainize these people when they were basically responsible for the industrial revolution and building america from the ground up.

>>82061339

Adopting a patronising tone doesn't make you smarter.

>the confusion in the conversation comes from the fact that you're not adapting to a more current definition of the word

Do you know where that new definition comes from? Do you know why it exists? Do you know why it's become so significant in the political discourse over the last few years? Do you know what kind of emotional and psychosexual hell that needless distinction has created for people with gender dysphoria or intersex people?

If you knew the answer to any of these questions, you wouldn't be willingly adopting meaningless newspeak purely for the sake of seeming like you are compassionate and sensitive.

>>82061391
No it isn't. Is playing with barbie dolls a male or female thing? Your answer here is with regards to gender but not sex. It just so happens that two 2 normally align so people end up using it interchangeably. Black is not a gender because it has nothing to do with male or female gender roles.

>>82061653

>Your answer here is with regards to gender but not sex.

Try and find a way to describe a gender role without making reference to biological sex.

>>82061710
Being the breadwinner of the family

>>82061030
>Look at the gilded age.
Again, idk how you don't understand that the system as it functioned in the 1920's is not going to play out the same way today.


>You're joking right?
>It's the free market that breaks up monopolies.
I know you won't be able to, but elaborate on this.


>Name some.
Again, monopolies. Because you don't recognize that as a legitimate flaw in the system, the point is bound to be lost on you.

>Nope.
Idk if you know what speculation means. Basically, it is, by nature, speculative to say that the FDA killed MORE people than would have dies from it's never existing at all, because we can't go back in time and see who would've died from unregulated distribution of untested drugs had the FDA not been there to prevent it from happening. I'm not saying the FDA hasn't been responsible for a delay on a product that could've saved lives had it's distribution not been halted by the standards of the FDA, I'm saying that there is literally no way of knowing what lives may have been lost from the FDA NOT being there to prevent other harmful drugs from being distributed. Literally pure speculation.

>I know I would only use doctors that have been licences from reputable medical schools and only prescribe drugs that have been tested properly.

Whether or not this is true, it doesn't apply to other people. The problem with any sort of anarchic ideology is that it relies on everybody being as well informed and wise as the person that "knows" it would work for them. People are dumb, and it's not their fault they got that way, it's the genetics and their upbringing that are by and large to blame for people's stupidity. So the idea that the system we have in place shouldn't in some way help sort people's options so they aren't making retarded decisions they don't have the capacity to educate themselves on is selfish.

>Healthcare was much much cheaper in the 1950s and 1960s

And in countries with competent public health care, it's cheaper right now.

>>82061736

How exactly is that a gender role?

>>82061653
>>82061653
>Is playing with barbie dolls a male or female thing?

LOL!! It's not the barbie dolls that is a gender specific toy. It is how the toy is played. Boys turn barbies into guns and swords. Its when boys actually treat barbie as a doll is when it is being a little faggot.

They did the same experiment by making girls play with trucks since those are "boy toys." What happened? Left alone the girls just made "mommy trucks," "daddy trucks," and "baby trucks."

Left alone NORMAL children express their biological nature. Normal boys express their sex and gender instinctually. Anything outside this is as natural as blindness and dwarfism. On their own they are harmless but harmful to the species on a whole if not rejected.

This is no different how when male chimps turn sticks into weapons and tools while female chimps turn sticks into pretend babies.

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>>82055182

>>82061787
How is that not a gender role? For thousands of years, males have been the breadwinner of the family and traits have been passed down from generations to generations to make males better hunters, better farmers etc.

>>82055182
>used science to explain we're real
Schizophrenics are real too. We're not arguing your existence.

>>82058074
>Why shouldn't you be allowed some simple procedures to cut your own legs off if you identify as wheelchair bound?
Google "parrot man"

>>82061814
Did you read my post?
>It just so happens that two 2 normally align so people end up using it interchangeably
>It just so happens that two 2 normally align so people end up using it interchangeably
>It just so happens that two 2 normally align so people end up using it interchangeably

KYS. Or are you pretending that guys that like girls, are biologically male but also make "mommy trucks" don't exist?

>>82061867

Exactly. There you go.

In order to explain what makes any role in society a "gender role", you must by necessity make reference to biological sex, like you just did.

It's stupid to pretend that there is a distinction between the concepts of gender and sex, for precisely that reason.

When you wrote "being the breadwinner of the family", you're explicitly censored gender from the description, but as soon as you start explaining why it relates to gender in any way, you have to include words that describe biological sex because they are, by definition, the same thing.

>>82061342
You are too stupid for this conversation. To get caught up on a simple semantic debate and being too stubborn to adapt to the conversation, or offer anything in the way of a compromise only verifies your stupidity. Disregarding the fact that when you literally look up the definition of the word gender it spells out that it's a distinct concept from biological sex, you're too stupid to even follow the ideas of the conversation beyond the superficial semantics that you're clinging to. So here, allow me.


gen·der
ˈjendər/Submit
noun
1.
the state of being male or female (typically used with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones).
"traditional concepts of gender"
synonyms: sex
"variables included age, income, and gender"
2.
GRAMMAR
(in languages such as Latin, Greek, Russian, and German) each of the classes (typically masculine, feminine, common, neuter) of nouns and pronouns distinguished by the different inflections that they have and require in words syntactically associated with them. Grammatical gender is only very loosely associated with natural distinctions of sex.

>>82061763
>Again, idk how you don't understand that the system as it functioned in the 1920's is not going to play out the same way today.
Why would the laws of economics magically change depending on the era?

>but elaborate on this.
If a so called "monopolist" raises prices countless other firms will come in and take the market share of this company.
If a company lowers prices(past the point where it's profitable for them) to try and form of monopoly. First of all this is a good thing for consumers. Secondly they will go bankrupt because they would be losing money. There's a bunch of other examples but those are the simplest two.

>Because you don't recognize that as a legitimate flaw in the system
Historically it was never a problem. It was the market that broke up monopolies. Give me some examples.

>speculative to say that the FDA killed MORE people than would have dies from it's never existing at all
Nah it's pretty accurate. If these drugs were allowed to be tested in the marketplace, people's lives would have been saved. Thanks to the fda restricting access, these people died.

>and see who would've died from unregulated distribution of untested drugs
word gets around quick, if there was news that a certain drug killed someone, people would stop using it
also this shit wouldn't even happen because people would only use drugs that have been tested by 3rd party companies

>I'm saying that there is literally no way of knowing
Basic logic and historical data.
It's better if the FDA fucked off anyway. There would be massive innovation and low prices. That in and of itself is worth it.

>Whether or not this is true
Of course it is. I'm not an idiot.
Why would I willingly take a drug that hasn't been tested properly?

>The problem with any sort of anarchic ideology is that it relies on everybody being as well informed
Nobody needs to have a degree in medicine to know which drugs to take. Again there would be third party testing agencies like U.L.

Gender and Sex have only come to "define" separate things because of this SJW movement. Prior to that, if someone looked at my drivers license and it said "sex: male" they would say "oh, he's a man." not "oh... do you identify as male, or 1 of the 50000000 made up shits we have floating around now?" It is simply a "cultural shift" of ideas. Making up little genders for yourself is great, but don't press it on the rest of us with actual intelligence enough to realize this IS a mental illness.

>>82061339
first anon you replied to in your second response here.

I'm aware of the current definition of "gender" that's not what I'm arguing here, so I understand what you're saying. In fact, I agree that there's an issue of semantics when it comes to either debate or discussion on this topic.

I'm presenting information that beg some questions: is the change in definition warranted? is it universal? does it over complicate a once seemingly simple concept?

like I said, before the 1950's gender was a utilization of sex for communication purposes. the whole aspect of "how you feel inside" just wasn't there. because of its connection, it followed the same rules as sex: you either are or aren't.

One thing is for certain about this change in definition: it's not a universal one. So I don't think it's fair to expect someone who goes by the traditional definition that's been universal for decades to keep up with one that's specific to an ideology.

>>82061763
>And in countries with competent public health care, it's cheaper right now.
No it's not.
I live in Canada and it's a fucking atrocious mess. You have to wait almost a year sometimes to get treated. Go fuck yourself.
Healthcare was CHEAPER than socialized medicine in the 1950s and 1960s.

You know what else.
Look at switzerland. They have PRIVATE healthcare and it's cheap for them.
They have no waiting lines either. It's literally the best healthcare system in the world.

America would do good by at least copying their system.

People that support state monopolized healthcare are vicious psychopaths that want to do harm to others.
Doctors won't even help you here, if your problem isn't extremely simple they won't even fucking listen to you.

>>82061983
No fucking shit. Biological sex helped shaped gender roles. Or did you assume I said gender is a social construct? I can be biologically male and still take on female gender roles. What does that make me? I still like girls. I still identify as a male. Biological sex is LINKED with gender roles, doesn't fucking mean they are the same thing you fucking moron. Being a breadwinner has been a male thing but those it mean every single breadwinner in the history of civilization was male? Are you a moron? What happens when a female takes on the role of a breadwinner be it due to circumstances or choice? Does she turn into a he?

>>82055182
BUT IM A BIG GUY

>>82055182
Imagine being such a boring fucking person that your entire life revolves around being trans.

>>82062028

>Google dictionary
>meaning anything at all

Go Google the definition for "literally" and realise why you're being a useful idiot.

It's not "superficial semantics", because trying to force a distinction which doesn't exist serves a specific agenda, namely that of the philosophies which dispute the necessity of gender roles in society. Personally, I don't make a habit of adopting newspeak peddled by people who don't believe that the words "mother" and "father" should mean different things.

If you don't believe what I'm saying, go do some research on who first coined the new definition of "gender", and what their reasoning was. They weren't motivated by the fight against the oppression and mistreatment of transsexuals, I can tell you that much.

>>82061926
My post >>82061814
>>82060377

Prove this assumption wrong. In the Animals Kingdom, especially apes. Sex is all that exist and this "gender identification" garbage doesn't. In Nature, the orientation also doesn't exist as well. If you are a male you are naturally attracted to females and vis versa. These animals all live in "societies" and "tribes." All of them have roles for males and females. Sex is so natural that the first thing gorillas are curious about when a new baby is born around them is if they are male or female. How do animals know this if "gender is a social construct?" This proves that only sex exist and it is purely biological. Gender is non-existent. This means that what's between your legs determines what you are and SHOULD identify yourself as. Why? Because NATURE demands it. If you are religious God demands it. If you're secular, NATURE demands it.

One way or another human life is PREDETERMINED either by God or Nature. By the time a human is born 90% of their life is predetermined. Their

>Sex
>Race
>Environment
>Parents
>Genetics
>Time era

Is all determined for you. You cannot identify as anything because what you WISH to be can never come true because it's already been determined for you. That is why it is meaningless to Identify as a "gender" because that's already been determined for you by nature. So choosing to live by nature's standards is the best way to live. Choosing to live by God's standards is the best way to live. Either way, your life is predetermined and you have laws to follow.>>82060536

>>82061518
>Do you know where that new definition comes from? Do you know why it exists? Do you know why it's become so significant in the political discourse over the last few years? Do you know what kind of emotional and psychosexual hell that needless distinction has created for people with gender dysphoria or intersex people?


None of that matters in the context of the conversation. The only thing I'm trying to clarify is that as it stands now the words sex and gender refer to two different things, and neither the right or the left seem to recognize them as being different, leading to both sides adopting stupid positions on the issue. Also, you're assuming I agree that males can be females simply by wishing it were so. I never said that. What I'm saying is that trans people are confused because they think their disalignment to traditional gender roles constitutes them legitimately being a different sex. And people that have an issue with people crossdressing or operating in society in a way that defies the traditional gender roles as they apply to biological sex are concerned about something that really doesn't matter that much because they seem to think that sex ought to define somebodies gender or that atypical expression of sexuality is somebody bad.

>>82062121
Not him but female brains are much different than male brains.
It's already scientifically proven.
No social constructs going on here.

Males tend to be more intelligent and go for technical things. Females usually like cutesy things.

>>82062302
I think you need to do a little more research in the differences between male and female brains.

You'll find out that those differences have little to nothing to do with intelligence, but rather in behavior.

>>82062243
You need to kill yourself. Your debasement of human civilization and society to mere animal kingdoms is just as fucking moronic as the arguments people make about gayness being prevalent in animal kingdom. We have evolved past that point. Sex is fixed on birth. I agreed. But society and civilization has evolved to have sexes play different and complex roles within society itself. The preference of this roles is called gender. Males prefer football because their biological sex makes them bias towards it, that doesn't mean males that don't like football don't exist. This preference of less masculine activities is called gender. It doesn't mean the guy who prefers sewing is less of a male than the guy who is the quarterback. Society has evolved beyond the stage where every single male has to be me ooga booga me hunter. Time you learn to grow up.

>>82062403
>I think you need to do a little more research
Nah lol
it's already proven
also just look at every fucking college and uni in the country

Far more men go for stem fields.
nothing is stopping women from doing this, they're not interested in it and find it boring

>>82062087
>You know what else.
>Look at switzerland. They have PRIVATE healthcare and it's cheap for them.
>They have no waiting lines either. It's literally the best healthcare system in the world.

At best it's a hybrid system, which I'm fine with. Health care is universal. All citizens are required to purchase it, and it's regulated by the government. I'd be fine with their health care system being implemented here, but to say it's a private healthcare system is kind of not fair or completely honest.

>>82062302
Preferences of gender roles, norms and activities has nothing to do with female brains or male brains you fucking imbecile. I have no idea why morons from both left and right try to conflate sex and gender like they are the same thing. There are linked but they are NOT THE SAME, Having a male brain doesn't mean you have to like to drink beer, fire guns and watch football.

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>>82062121

Biological sex doesn't "help shape" gender roles. It determines them.

Your role as a man will always be that of father and protector. If you raise a child you will always be its father, you can never be its mother. You can stay at home when it is hungry and rely on the intervention of others when it is being threatened with physical harm, but that doesn't make you a mother, it makes you a terrible father, and you will almost always hate that about yourself.

A woman can spend all day every day at work, earning money to support her unemployed husband and their children, but that doesn't make her the breadwinner of the family - that makes her an inattentive mother, and she will hate that about herself.

If you enjoy living in this society that forces both parents in middle-class families to work full time, encourages divorce and splits the custody of children so that they never really know how important gender roles are, I feel sorry for you.

>>82062439
>At best it's a hybrid system
No, it's a private system with a government mandate.
They don't have all the corporate/government regulatory horseshit that america has so that's why it's super cheap for them.

>All citizens are required to purchase it
Yes from PRIVATE health insurance companies.
It's like car insurance.

>>82062492
But different sexes have predisposition to certain things. We don't judge based on rare, or extreme outliers.

>>82062492
>Having a male brain doesn't mean you have to like to drink beer, fire guns and watch football.
No shit but it means your brain is hardwired to do such things. Some males are more hardwired to do things like this. It's genetic.

Everyone already knows this.
Why do you deny it?

>>82062075
>is the change in definition warranted? is it universal? does it over complicate a once seemingly simple concept?

Sure, it definitely complicates things. But it's not like we can just pull the plug on an idea like this. I'm not arguing that it's necessarily a good or bad thing, especially as it pertains to people getting confused that thinking that they can alter their biological categories through cosmetic surgery and going by a different superficial label. But I definitely don't think it's ethically wrong for somebody to live that way if they choose to.

>>82062439
lmao are you going to try to claim car insurance is a hybrid system too

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>>82062492
>he actually believes all human behavior is a blank slate
>he thinks everything is a social construct

Science has already disproven this.

Read this book and stop denying human nature like some marxist faggot.

>>82062528
Just cause they are predisposition to certain things doesn't mean they are always the same thing you moron. Just like we have names for rare or extreme outliers even if they are 0.0001% of the global population.

>>82062436
how does a difference in choice = difference in intelligence?

I'm telling you: do some more research, form a more thought out argument, and come back later.

>>82062592
You need to kill yourself or start reading the thread. I already answered your moronic statement and no i don't think human behavior is a blank state. Just cause you are predisposed to getting a hereditary illness, doesn't mean you are 100% going to get it. Same applies to sex and gender roles.

>>82062595
The point is that accounting for extreme outliers in every social interaction is absolutely pointless. Why should there be a massive societal shift to accommodate less than 1% of the population at the expense of the other 99% who relies on clarity of language?

>>82055182

I get that it is cool to be angry about faggots

but why not endorse a scientific approach to them wanting to be another sex. genetic sex transitions are scientifically inevitable, it is going to be a legitimate consumer product at some point. why ignore all the non-XY/XX people? why ignore the massively complex human mind? why revert to just letting them kill themselves? and i guess the weirdest thing for me, why care if .01% of the population decides to chop their dick off? yeah it is disgusting but so are most surgeries, fat people and 4chan posters.

i don't get it. i mean i do, it is annoying but how did opposition to a few thousand deranged faggot internet posters become an identity for millions?

>>82062552
I am not. I am saying genetic help determine where you stand on the spectrum of gender. And I don't mean weird fucking genders like transgender. I mean from masculine to feminine.

>>82062515
I am not even going to answer this fucking moronic thinking from the 1800s.

>>82062631
But it is true for the vast majority of cases.
Why people even bother having to account for a hyper minority?

>>82062403
Males have higher average intelligence as well as higher standard deviation in intelligence, so virtually all the exceptionally intelligent people are male.

>>82062620
>how does a difference in choice = difference in intelligence?
its both a difference in choice AND a difference in intelligence

even the women that do get into stem under perform compared to the men

>>82062631
>Just cause you are predisposed to getting a hereditary illness, doesn't mean you are 100% going to get it.
No shit but people are predisposed to have male or female personality traits. Just because 1% of people may not have these(thanks to genetic/brain problems) isn't an argument at all.

>>82062439

The Swiss system really is the best of all possible worlds. They manage the perfect balance of keeping costs low while incentivizing treatment.

In socialized medicine, you have rationed treatment, which actually disincentivizes treating shit, and unsurprisingly leads to horrific wait times. My dad in Canada has been waiting more than a year for prostate/bladder surgery, which keeps him in constant pain, because it's just not life-threatening yet. And that's single-payer, which is still miles better than the nightmare in full socialized-medicine countries like the UK.

On the other side of the coin, in America, you get every cough and sneeze getting a CT scan and a round of expensive prescriptions, so costs are sky-high, meaning health insurance is fucking ridiculously priced and tens of millions of people can't afford it.

The Swiss know how to do it. I wish we could all copy them.

>>82062197
Definitions of words change and adapt over the time. The important thing is that when I or anybody use a word with a certain idea in mind, the idea is what's important, moreso than the word I use to label it. And because you aren't willing to adapt to emerging accepted definitions of words (which in this case is a definition that's been implemented almost certainly before you were even born), you're not going to be able to have a rational conversation on the ideas I'm trying to talk about.

None of what you're arguing for even matters in this context. What matters is that there are two ideas here, biology and personal expression of identity. I don't really care what words we use to talk about those two ideas, but at the moment those words are sex and gender, respectively. If you want to be stubborn and say that the latter idea simply doesn't exist, by all means, do so. But it will only keep you from contributing to the conversation.

>>82062434
Not that guy, but where does transexuals fit in all of this? Why should we pretend that they are womyn/men when they clearly arent, since they cant change their sex.

>>82062658
>gender is a spectrum
but it's not at all

>>82062638
>This animal is so rare that only 2 exist in the entire world
>Better not name them
Words and terms change so we can better evolve and grow as a society. Sticking to traditional thinking rigidly is just as horrible.

>>82062701
>which is still miles better than the nightmare in full socialized-medicine countries like the UK.
This.
Canadian here. Our system is horrible.
But UK's system is far far worse.

>>82062434
not the animal kingdom guy, but let me make this point. Imagine it wasn't trans people, imagine it was even more obscure than that. Musicians. Imagine every musician wanted their own bathroom, to be able to get money from the government to pay for lessons, to not get kicked out of housing simply because they play music, and to have a pronoun just for them... maybe musm or musr. Now onto the topic of gender. It is simply a cultural shift. Definitions change all the time because of this fact. Many people still say fag in reference to a cigarette, so how to is it wrong to refer to gender as sex? Is it an old way of saying it? Maybe, but I personally think shrouding mental and social ineptness with new definitions of words, simply to make a point, is as stupid as a drummer needing his own bathroom. The animal kingdom thing is too very odd, will not lie. However, you still need to use your head and not jump on a lemmings wagon.

>>82062657
> why revert to just letting them kill themselves?
They still do it after transitioning to the same degree in most countries.
>and i guess the weirdest thing for me, why care if .01% of the population decides to chop their dick off?
Because my tax dollars pay for this shit, and it's snowballing into making children chop their dicks off.
>i don't get it. i mean i do, it is annoying but how did opposition to a few thousand deranged faggot internet posters become an identity for millions?
They are VERY annoying on the internet and nearly everyone these days spends at least 2 hours a day on the internet.

three almost universal things:
People don't like getting annoyed
People don't like paying for shit
People don't like children getting hurt

>>82062701
>The Swiss know how to do it. I wish we could all copy them.
It's just so sad that people are brainwashed and think there are only 2 options.

God dammit.

>>82062715
So every guy like masculine activities the same? What about the guy who like feminine activities?

>>82062713
Transexuals are mentally ill people whose gender roles leak into their biological sex and think cause they like watching gossip girls, they should cut off their dick. They are sick and mentally ill people who require assistance by lethal injection.

>>82062248

>The only thing I'm trying to clarify is that as it stands now the words sex and gender refer to two different things

According to you, and people who share your opinion. I dispute that they mean different things, because the difference is, in reality, meaningless.

Transsexuals aren't "disaligned to traditional gender roles" - a divorced single mother with a full-time job as a professional rugby player is "disaligned to traditional gender roles".

Transsexuals are medically deluded that their "inner self" (mind, soul, feelings, whatever you want to call it) belongs to the opposite gender from their body. They are convinced of a situation which isn't really possible according to the best information available to modern medicine. That is what is known as "gender dysphoria", and because of the dismissive, postmodern attitude our society has towards the significance of gender, it has become accepted medical practice to treat gender dysphoria as a permanent affliction and simply introduce huge levels of opposite sex hormones in an attempt to make the physical reality conform as closely as possible to the patient's fantasy. It's a recipe for mental anguish in every case.

Sex refers to the male/female binary nature of human sexual dimorphism, and so does gender. If gender is the more commonly used term when describing masculine and feminine abstracts, so be it, but you could just as easily use the word sex, because they are interchangeable.

>>82062692
You must be a fucking moron to think that only 1% of the people prefer activities of the opposite gender.

>>82062517
Yea, again, when the private system is in part regulated by rules set up by the government, and people are required to purchase it (which is far more ubiquitous than car insurance because it applies to ALL people, not just drivers), I would say that constitutes a hybrid system. Idk where you're getting the idea that the government isn't regulating the insurance companies at all, from what I've read there is oversight.

>>82062775
>So every guy like masculine activities the same?
No but they're similar.

>hurrr all sports are different so you're wrong

>>82062434
>>82062434
>Your debasement of human civilization and society to mere animal kingdoms is just as fucking moronic as the arguments people make about gayness being prevalent in animal kingdom.

LOL! I'm not a believer in evolution but even I agree that humans are 99% Chimpanzee and that will never change.

>We have evolved past that point.

NO, we haven't. War, violence, domination, sex, reproduction, death. Rinse repeat. Have you ever wondered why humans can never learn from history and are doomed to repeat it? Ape nature. War never changes. The weapons change, the tech changes but war never changes.

>The preference of this roles is called gender. Males prefer football because their biological sex makes them bias towards it, that doesn't mean males that don't like football don't exist. This preference of less masculine activities is called gender. It doesn't mean the guy who prefers sewing is less of a male than the guy who is the quarterback. Society has evolved beyond the stage where every single male has to be me ooga booga me hunter

What you keep ignoring is not that a certain hobby is gender specific but on HOW that hobby is expressed. Sure males prefer football and also Wrestling. But why isn't it gay to watch large muscular men roll around with each other? Because of the context. Violence and competition. That is UNIVERSALLY MASCULINE and MALE.

Sewing is neither masculine nor feminine. It is a necessity. I sew, but the context of what I sew makes it masculine. I sew my business suites and my boxing gloves when I rip them. There is that same theme: competition and violence.

Remember that chimps turn sticks to weapons if male and babies if females. Yet they are a complex society so complex that Jane Goodall is still discovering new things about them to this day after an entire lifetime of study.

That's why it is meaningless to challenge "gender roles" because they end up going right back to biological sex and nature.

>>82062813
>You must be a fucking moron to think that only 1% of the people prefer activities of the opposite gender.

So a large percentage of men like dressing up like girls and being all girly?

So a large portion of girls like wearing mens clothes and doing man stuff?

>>82062836
>No but they're similar.
That is not what I meant you moron. I mean every guy likes masculine activities with the same passion? So you can only like sports or dislike it. You cannot like it a little. Dislike it a little?

>>82062565
>I definitely don't think it's ethically wrong for someone to live that way if they choose to

To be fair, I don't think anyone here is arguing that it's ethically wrong. I think most people here would agree that others can do whatever they want with their own bodies.

It's just their response to the effects of normalizing something that's typically an outlier in society and in nature, that's also very vaguely defined.

>>82062711
With the topic of personal identity, where does it end? For instance, I could say that I identify as a narwhal and are therefore trans-species. I don't like he or she, my preferred pronoun is thatmajesticmotherfucker and not saying it in reference to me hurts me and my identity. So, again, if we allow this loosening of the social construct of gender and self identity, where does it end?

>>82062872
Nice strawman you faggot.
Every feminine activity is cross dressing and being girly huh? I guess every masculine activity means being in the gym and taking steroids huh? What does the word tomboy mean to you?

>>82062816
>when the private system is in part regulated by rules set up by the government
The rules are actually quite simple, unlike the shitty american system with is overburdened with insane rules that only serve to benefit special interest groups.

>I would say that constitutes a hybrid system
It's a MOSTLY privatized system. It's a private system with a mandate and a few extra rules. Literally everything else in the system is privatized.

Socialized medicine is barbaric.

>Idk where you're getting the idea that the government isn't regulating the insurance companies at all
There's some regulation but it's quite small. These insurance companies have a lot of control over what they do.

Anyway it's funny that a private system is far superior to socialized medicine, thats all.

>>82062582
Different things. Everybody, not just drivers, are required to buy into health insurance. Healthcare is universal, government mandated, and the insurance companies are regulated by government rules. So it's a hybrid in the same way that Obamacare is, and plenty of people have said that Obamacare is a step on the spectrum towards socializing healthcare.

>>82062919
>Every feminine activity is cross dressing and being girly huh?
That's the core of being feminine, yes.

>What does the word tomboy mean to you?
A rare exception to the rule and probably a lesbian. They just have a slightly different brain than most girls.

>>82062861
Reddit you need to stop. You seem like you are trying to convince how you are a hotblooded male all the time, SEX, MASCULINE, COMPETITION AND VIOLENCE. It is okay to want to cuddle and watch gossip girls sometimes. That doesn't change your biological sex.

>>82062956
>and plenty of people have said that Obamacare is a step on the spectrum towards socializing healthcare.
Then why have the swiss had their based awesome system for DECADES and never once went to socialized medicine?

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>yfw you realize the Left are cultural Creationists

>>82062986
Does it change his gender, though? I believe that is what is at the core here under all of the bile.

>>82063004
Not to mention the Jap system is great too without having to deal with insane bureaucracy and nanny state nonsense.
Can't expect anything else from people who love state cock in every hole though.

>>82063023
>>yfw you realize the Left are cultural Creationists
It's fucking true.
They don't even apply evolution to human beings.

Marxists are even worse and more dogmatic, holy fucking shit what a bunch of neuroscience denialists.

>>82062966
>That's the core of being feminine, yes.
Wrong. That is so fucking stupid but then again this is 4chan.

>A rare exception to the rule and probably a lesbian.
Lmao. Stop. Some girls don't want to put on makeup. They dress sloppy. Keep short hair. Doesn't mean they want to munch carpet. You are just as bad as those faggots on the left if you think this way.

>They just have a slightly different brain than most girls.
According to you?

>faggot telling me what's normal

No. You're not normal.

Faggots don't get to dictate to the rest of us what is and isn't normal. Sorry. It doesn't work like that.

>>82062701
Agreed, don't mean to sound like I think capitalism is inherently bad, I just don't think it's inherently perfect either and sometimes it needs correction.

>>82063049
I heard they have some privatization.
How does their system work again?

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Stop being straight.

>>82063029
No. Because gender exist on a scale. It is okay to like 90% of masculine things and 10% of those feminine things. At the same time is it okay to ONLY like masculine things. Seems that anon is eager to prove everyone is either 100% masculine or 100% feminine which is idiotic and moronic.

>>82062986
>cuddle and watch gossip girls sometimes
This makes most men feel uncomfortable.
They have biological instincts that make them feel uncomfortable with this.

>>82055182
So what scientific evidence did Nye expound that shows that men who wear dresses are actually real women?

>>82062711

The reason that your supposed distinction is entirely unnecessary is that there is no way to have a "personal expression of identity" that is divorced from the biological reality.

A man who believes he is a woman is just a mentally ill man. A man who believes he doesn't need to protect or provide for his wife and child is just a poor example of a man. Neither of them is "expressing their unique identity", that's postmodern nonsense and you either know it and are lying to yourself, or you'll realise it eventually.

You can't force me to believe that transsexual men aren't still men by changing the language. You can't force me to believe that stay-at-home dads aren't just being bad examples of fathers by changing the language. You can't force me to believe that working mums aren't just being bad examples of mothers by changing the language.

The biological sex and the role of the gender are tied, 1:1, and divergence from that easily observable reality produces predictable and harmful side-effects.

>>82063049
What the fuck are you talking about? Japan's healthcare system is pretty 'nanny state' - the government pays at least 70% of all costs, medical fees are strictly regulated, hospitals are legally required to be non-profits...

>>82062956
>>82063004
lol everyone else is discussing sex and gender, and you two are on about healthcare n shit. I like it; throwing in a little spice in the mix.

>>82063134
>They have biological instincts that make them feel uncomfortable with this.
Yes. This is real science. Your quote has about as much truth as whatever good ole Bill says.

>>82063066

> Some girls don't want to put on makeup. They dress sloppy. Keep short hair.

They also don't get laid. Their rejection of the gender role leads to their elimination from the pool of biological sex.

>>82062939
>Socialized medicine is barbaric

In a thread of shit posts this may be far and away the dumbest thing anyone's said.

>>82063101
Your payments are subsidized based on family income based on a percentage.
The only actual oversight is a government committee so overhead costs are fairly cheap.
You get a shit ton of choice for providers and there's no actual cost for the people who don't want to take part in the system.
It's literally just private health care with subsidies targeted at the lower and middle class handled with miniscule bureacracy.

>>82063134
>He doesn't cuddle and watch girly movies with his gf

>>82059226
that's also associated with lymes disease

>Starting with episode 9 instead of from the beginning.
Fucking scum.

>>82063189
It's like you just read the first 3 sentences of the wikipedia and then posted in this thread.

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>>82063227
>the only reason straight people are uncomfortable with gay sex is due to social factors and not instincts

AHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>82062810
I agree, there is a lot of confusion because people conflate the two ideas. It really doesn't help to say that the words sex and gender refer to the same thing though, they don't. There are other ways to address the issue of people believing that how they feel on the inside is enough to redefine their biological categories. And I do think it's dangerous the way the left is approaching this, because it does legitimize emerging ideas like transracialism and transageism. I'm not saying I'm in full support of every idea that the transgender movement is pushing. The only things I'm saying are that one, those two words refer to two different things, and two, people that choose to subvert traditional gender roles are not actually doing anything ethically wrong.

>>82063232
Which has nothing to do with sex and gender being the same thing.

>>82062986
Basically, sex is WHAT you are. Gender is HOW you express WHAT you are. Sex is the hand that points the gender bullet in a certain direction. That direction for the male and the universal masculine desire for expression is sex, violence and competition.

That is why I believe that ancient Roman and Greek Olympic sports were neither gay nor effiminate. Even if the players were all naked, gay men, with an audience of men. It was violence and competition.

That's why UFC, Wrestling, and Sumo is not gay nor effeminate to watch naked men roll around with each other: Because of violence and competition.

That's why competitions for girls is dog shows, beauty pageants, and wedding conventions.

Do girls do UFC, wrestling, and sports? Sure, but they are not taken as seriously as men. Look how many empty benches the WMBA has. Why? Because they are not as competitive nor violent as men. That's why there will never be a WNFL.

>>82063256
>In a thread of shit posts this may be far and away the dumbest thing anyone's said.
Maybe if you actually read what we are talking about instead of taking the words at face value you would understand why you're retarded.
t. someone that lives in a country with socialized medicine

>>82063302
>Cuddling and watching movies = gay sex
Woah. Are you in a closet anon? No one said anything about cuddling with a guy.

>>82063270
>It's literally just private health care with subsidies targeted at the lower and middle class handled with miniscule bureacracy.
wow really?
holy shit that's amazing
I thought they had a government run healthcare system?

>>82063270
>government pays 70, 80, or 90 percent of medical fees based on your income
>the expenses you do have to pay are on a threshold, and if you go over that the government covers 100%
>national health insurance program run by local governments
>medical fees are set by government committee
Sure is privatized...

>>82063273
Your gf wants a man not a sissy
She has girl friends to watch that shit with you submissive fuck

>>82063123
Does it though? Honestly, I preferred it when there was simply male, female, and neutral. Now theres a plethora of new words for us to swallow with a big ol' fucking spoon of sugar, only to be regurgitated in an incomprehensible and disgusting way. If I go to Yale and sit in a room with 50 people, chances are high that I end up needing to remember 2-50 different genders or be autistically screeched at. I just want to be wrong and for it not to be the end of the world. that's all. I don't respect that person any less, I just simply don't care to know more language that I feel will be irrelevant in 10-20 years.

>>82062882
While I'd love to believe that, I think there is a sizable percentage of americans that think it is not only wrong, but worth being shitty to people over, which is why I think clarifying the whole thing is important for both sides.

>>82063319
I agree. I already said it fucking here >>82060668
>>82060518
>>82062121

>>82063341
So you admit most straight people being uncomfortable with gay sex and gayness is due to instinctual factors?

>>82063359
Actually this is much more privatized than Canada's system or the NHS.

It sounds pretty based desu.

A swiss or Japanese system would be ideal.

Fuck government monopolized medicine.

>>82063300
It's like you haven't read anything about it at all.