Who was in the wrong here?

>>81969376
the white guy

>>81969461
No niggers in this movie, try again retard

>>81969474
there are no innocent white men in the movie (or society at large)

>>81969376
neither. dubs guy just fucked up and that shit happens

Angier for not working out the trick and having Tesla make a magic machine to compensate.

>>81969717
to be fair even if he'd figured it out, there was absolutely no way he could ever reproduce it

>>81969717
>>81969928
uh he did figure out the trick, and he did copy it without the machine. It was his pride that drove him to create the machine.

>>81969376
Anyone who thought Tesla's Clone machine worked.

Seriously, the entire movie is a series of explicit lies from the journals of the characters explicitly trying to trick each other. Why would you believe anything Angiers said about his trip to America? Because he wrote about it in his journal?

>>81969376
Haven't been able to watch Star Trek the same way since.

>>81969717
>Angier for not working out the trick and having Tesla make a magic machine to compensate.

There never was a machine. It's a joke on the audience.

>>81970021
The whole movie isn't from the journal though unless you can write your own cause of death in a journal

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>>81969551
>dubs guy

>>81970947
If there never was a cloning machine then how do you explain all the dead bodies? How do you explain why Bale was locked up if he didn't murder Jackman?

There obviously had to be a dead body, where did it come from if it wasn't cloned?

>>81971086
Lifelike dummies in tanks. Magic tricks are often elaborate. Same as the hates in the field.

>>81971400
So the drowning Bale witnessed was a dummy?

>>81971549
You mean the journal entry you stupidly believed?

>>81971400
>>81971549
>I may just be a simple country doctor, but that there doesn't look like a human corpse to me
Simpler times

>>81971400
I'm pretty sure that nobody would arrest and sentence Bale to death with a "lifelike dummy" as evidence.

It had to be a real, human body. You can't explain that, so stop with your shitty theory that there was no machine.

>>81971783
Wait, you STILL believe that the journals were written by a reliable narrator in spite of all the evidence being slapped across your face repeatedly?

>>81971837
How else did Bale get executed in prison for the murder of Jackman? You aren't explaining this, you aren't even trying.

Holy shit you fucking retard stop, like the first and last 20 minutes of the movie take place outside of journal entire why the fuck are you autistically obsessed with a small part of the movie?

>>81971896
He never went to jail you stupid idiot. Rewatch the movie.

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>>81971933
Stop

>>81971933
Yes he fucking did, and he was executed for the murder of Jackman.

>>81969376
nolan. the movie went to shit once tesla dublicated stuff

>>81971933
this. he fabricated the entire story about a secret twin as a scapegoat for his obsession with magic, and ultimately the destruction of his personal life.

It was a ruse to discredit jackman and drivee him crazy. The whole point of the movie is that "a magician never reveals his secrets" e.g the prestige. The journal's are literally nothing but lies

>>81971983
Only sub-140 IQs believe Tesla's machine worked

>>81972021
Proofs?

>>81972023
>Only sub-140 IQs
well yeah I don't have an Iq higher than 140, neither do you or nolan, there is nothing in the movie that hint's to the machine not being real

>>81971933
>>81972021
>>81972023
This level of stupidity is off the charts

>>81972100
The entire movie is the prestige. You're constantly lead to take what you see as fact, but if you really rewatch and pay attention alot of it is taken by faith by the viewer.

The entire premisis of the movie is that magic isn't real. It's all an act.

The first clue to this is when jackman finds out the journal entries he had been following were straight up fabrications. All a lie. Now after taking that into consideration, in what is the "19th/20th century", how likely is it that jackman actually decided to find tesla and how likely is it that tesla actually made a machine that can clone shit?

Jackman had a secret twin. Are we supposed to believe they found the drunk coincidentally?

The only body that Bale saw drowning was the drunk. The bodies in tanks were dummies (they were created for the trick the same way the tanks were created for the movie.)

The movie posits that magic tricks are always disappointing once you explain them. "Once you know the trick it's very simple."

Angiers drowns his drunk double so Borden goes to jail. He creates tanks to trick Borden into thinking he made the ultimate sacrifice, to maybe die for his art. Borden doesn't give a shit. "Do you know where we are right now? Look around." Borden doesn't look. "I don't care."

Nothing that happened outside of the journals was scientifically implausible.

The movie made you believe the impossible with a simple trick. It was a trick on the audience. "You're not really looking. You want to be fooled."

Seriously, when you think about it in real terms, not sci-fi terms, not magic terms, what is more plausible, dummies in tanks, or a magic cloning machine?

notice every scene of Angiers in America people comments on how they heard of The Great Danton? It's an elaborate lie. He tricks the audience, but not Borden, because Borden doesn't care.

>>81972347
how do you explain all the cloned hats though

>>81972314
>>81972347
>if the movie sucks you just have to imagine it be good

>>81972314
>>81972347
This level of stupidity is off the charts

>>81972347
this is a much better and more thorough explanation then i made here >>81972314

>>81972347
>The movie made you believe the impossible with a simple trick. It was a trick on the audience. "You're not really looking. You want to be fooled."
MIND BLOWN

>>81970021
what do you mean, we see at the end a gorillion huge jackedman clones

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>>81971657

>>81972407
What he's getting at, again, is that this is told from the point of view of Angier's journal.

Question for the theorists, did both Angier and Borden go to see Tesla's demonstration when it was in town just to see it? Or was this written from a particular journal "point of view"?

>>81972407
What makes you think there were any cloned hats at all? Who's word is there to go by? Jackman, who essentially lived in a hotel, with hardly any other guests ever. Oh and these guys show up, which is somehow apparently obvious that they're there to fuck up tesla's work. But no one does anything about it? Of course not, because if tesla's house hadn't burned down, there would be evidence for jackmans story.

>>81972347
See I would believe this if I hadn't seen the movies more than once. The prestige the movie pulls on you is when you dont notice that the assistant is Bale's brother. I'm not sure if you claimed that bale never had a double but somebody did and theyre stupid because they were twins. I'm not seeing any hard evidence from you except me taking a leap of faith based on assumptions you have about the movie.

>>81969376
I don't watch capeshit

>>81972407
What cloned hats? From the fake journal outside Tesla's mansion?

If there were hats from outside the journal somebody bought a bunch of hats.

>>81972434
You're not really looking.

Here's another explanation:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=196965

Angiers was a shitty magician who used Root to perform the transporting man without tank for 99 shows. The 100th show he brought on a tank. He was a mediocre magician who wanted to trick Borden into thinking he was willing to sacrifice things for his art.

CLONING AND TRANSPORTATION ISN'T FUCKING REAL. Why would an audience believe in the impossible in a movie about how magicians trick audiences into believing the impossible using simple tricks.

>>81972635
This isn't at all like capeshit

>>81972607
>I'm not seeing any hard evidence from you except me taking a leap of faith based on assumptions you have about the movie.
not only that, but actual roof against it from the direct source material gets refuted with "lmao you didn't actually believe that, did you?"

the writing is garbage, period

>>81972568
The journal is written within a journal. Any part that didn't give either man pause (since they were both writer and audience) would have to be real. Meeting Tesla was real and probably scammed Angiers out of his money and sold him a worthless device.

>>81972607
when do you ever see the twins in the same place at the same time? except for "a flashback" What actual evidence is there they actually took turns living the same life? Do we ever see them living the other life of the promotion manager?

>>81972662
I see Batman, Black Widow and Wolverine in the OP image. What else could it be?

>>81972640
You're so fucking dumb

>>81972347
>The bodies in tanks were dummies (they were created for the trick the same way the tanks were created for the movie.)

How do you explain Jackman going from the stage to the balcony in mere seconds? The trick itself is disappearing and reappearing so far away in such a short time that it would be literally impossible to do.

For what reason would there be a need to have dummies in tanks at all if he could seemingly teleport at will?

Your theory is shit and you're wrong. Stop pushing this bullshit.

>>81972724
Why can't I believe the flashback told by Bale at the end? I have no reason not to. He gains nothing from lying to Michael Cain. Not to mention we see his brother get hanged and that isnt based on any journal entry.

>>81972835
you've been arguing with an obvious troll this whole time, you're the idiot

>>81972506
But Hugh Jackman wasn't cloned. They made dummies for the movie. So we agree people are willing to make dummies to trick people, right?

The same tricks the movie uses on the audience are used by the character- it's dummies in tanks. Angiers is like Nolan.

The more simple and disappointingly obvious the trick the more plausible I think it is.

>>81972607
I've seen it like 7 times. I love it.

Bale's brother reveal is a wonderful twist, but if the movie is a magic trick, the prestige being bale's brother would be like explaining the trick to the audience.

Root is the Prestige.

>>81972860
No, Jamal, you be trippin.

>>81972835
>How do you explain Jackman going from the stage to the balcony in mere seconds?

He's using a bloody double. Root.

>For what reason would there be a need to have dummies in tanks at all if he could seemingly teleport at will?

To make Borden (and the movie audience) think he used Tesla's machine to sacrifice himself for his art every night. Angiers wanted to be the bird that maybe died and maybe came back.

>>81972716
>journal within a journal

bravo, nolan, you've done it again

>>81972846
Because he would never reveal the prestige to his trick, he would never do angier the justice of putting him at peace with that information. Borden lives act. Magic was so important to him he loved it more than his own wife, ultimately destroying there family.

A magician never reveals his secret. He tells Angier he has a twin to fuck with him, "hahah you wasted your time to replicate a trick that you pretty much figured out from the beginning"

This movie is fucking shit. All it is is people dropping exposition and explaining the twist that's going to happen and some Tesla shit for I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE retards.

So Borden's twin was a duplicate from the first Tesla's machine right?

>>81972727
Do yourself a favor and watch the movie. Better than any capeshit before or since

>>81973003
you forgot to mention david bowie ((may he rip in peace)

>>81972974
If I remember correctly, Jackman hated using his double because if he were to speak he would be outted as a double because of his accent.

Does Jackman talk on stage before the trick? Its been a few years since I saw the movie, but I'm pretty sure he did.

>>81973003
The science being completely fictional just like climate change is really satisfying

>>81972979
It's based on an epistololary novel.

>>81969376
It was an accident and Wolverine was stupidly obsessed about it

>>81972992
>He tells Angier he has a twin to fuck with him
then how does he not get executed?
because the hanging takes place outside a journal as does the final confrontation

>>81973056
I'm willing to bet he either learned to live with it to get revenge or taught his double how to do magic.

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>movie ends
> it was all a journal entry

>>81972992
You know as much as you probably believe this version this is still just speculation by you. I dont think Bale cared about his trick anymore when he couldnt do it because his brother died. This is way more likely and fits in with story. There would also be no motive for Bale to kill Jackman unless he actually killed his brother. I want to here some hard fact based on story events rather than based on speculation.

So borden had a secret Twin brother that no one knew about ( who was Fallon )

they switched roles multiple times through the movie which ultimately destroyed his marriage

Jackman's character made clones of himself and killed them off

>>81973102
it's not actually his twin. There are two people, Borden and "freddy". Freddy is not around in the beginning of the movie, he doesn't show up till later. When he does show up, he even tells his gf "of i've got a new trick that show them, oh yeah this guy is my manager". Both the idea of the trick and freddy are introduced at the same time.

Because Borden did exactly what Angier did, he found someone who looks exactly like him. The reason freddy gets hung is because Angier knows that Borden has been attending his shows and can't figure out his trick, so ultimately organizes the trick so that borden gets framed for the murder of Angiers double.

Why do you think he chose the premisis of "drowning" the doubles? so that when needed, he could drown his double, and you wouldn't be able to tell because the only way you could was by hearing his voice. Guess what you can't do when someones drowning? Hear there voice properly.

The real borden is the one who gets hung, the jackman that drowns is the double. Why do you think we never see things from the perspective of Freddy the manager? because borden never actually lives a second life, thats retarded. That would be so easily figured out because there two seperate people. It also suggests that borden was doing it the entire time, even before becoming a solo magician

>>81973160
You will never change what I believe.

>>81973291
There's no such thing as cloning.

Borden sees one clone in the movie that drowns. But Root already existed. It's a bloody double.

>>81973115
>I'm willing to bet he either learned to live with it to get revenge

It would literally ruin the illusion, there would be no revenge if the trick didn't work. The drunk, english, double would eventually be outted and everyone in the audience would know how it was done.

>or taught his double how to do magic.

What?

>>81973160
you think it's conviently more likely that a magician, whos so obsessed with "magic" that he would give up when his partner/best trick is no longer viable, and that jackman, who was fucking tricked into going to america in the first place, actually does meet tesla, tesla just decides "yeah sure ill build you a magic machine", and then he goes on to not only clone himself, but in a way that involves teleportation?

MAGIC IS NOT REAL.

This all-caps post only applies to certain posters ITT

So the Telse journal entry is just a ruse to waste money?

>>81973160
He want's to kill jackman because jackman framed and killed borden, the real magician. Freddy is just part of the trick, he's not the mastermind.

It's obvious from the interactions between his daughter and borden when he's in jail. You can't for a second actually believe he lived 2 lives, and his wife nor daughter actuall noticed? The wives story is told in a way which is kind of believeable, but no chance you could fool your own daughter.

It's more likely that bordens obsession with magic ruined his relationship with his wife, and drove her to suicide when she realized that she isn't what he really loved.

>>81973338
there's a scene where he shoots his clone.

>>81973566
told by who? Who witnessed it??

>>81973338
I just rewatched the part with Jackmans final trick, he asks to the crowd, clearly in his own accent, for volunteers to check the machine, to which Bale volunteers and gains access to the backstage area.

It wasn't Root, it was Angiers on stage.

>>81973338
Fuck you. Just watch the fucking movie and stop doing mental gymnastics.

>>81973596
it wasn't told by anyone, it was jackman's memory shown as he was dying.

>stop doing mental gymnastics
>believes CLONING and TELEPORTATION is a conceit of the film

>>81973441
>>81973553
>more likely
>isnt it more believable

Agin, I need proof or this is speculation nothing more. Take your fan theories somewhere else. Nolans writing isnt that intricate.

>>81973654
>>81973662
>>81973695
You just have to think about it, that's the whole point of figuring out a magic trick. You have to look past the misdirection to find the secret of the prestige.

That being said, theres 2 realities; reality 1, Borden is living double lives the entire movie with his twin brother freddy, the only one who knows is his michael cain. (how long he knows, who knows?) This also implies that they bother to live double lives even before they come up with the idea for the "transporter man", or the introduction of Bordens "manager". Jackman, after being duped by Borden, uses his journal, which is later revealed to be entirely fabricated, to follow this fabricated story which ended up being true. Finds tesla, convinces him to create him a machine that would allow him to teleport, thus giving him the opportunity to perform the transporter man, but allowing him to basque in the glory of the audiences applause. EVEN THOUGH, it's out write said by borden in his journal, "oh yeah and btw this was all a ruse to get you to travel all the way to fucking america in search of a magic scientist capable of magic machines"

>>81970021
/tv/ is full of stupid people.

Also, I hate Hiro.

>>81973654
>>81973662
>>81973695
>>81973914
Or reality 2; They both used the exact same trick, in the exact same ways. They were so good magicians though, and so obsessed with one another, it blinded them from truly being able to see the key to the prestige.

Now this makes more sense because; 1) it;s established the journal entries are lies; 2) why would you marry someone if your sharing a life between 2 people, and that one person doesn't even love her. 3) The lie that lead to Angier going to america, ended up being true and actually gave him a magic cloning teleporting machine, but evil men drove tesla away and burnt down his house so theres no evidence left. 4) When the wife says "its ike you dont love me! stop lieing!", when in reality it's because of 2 things, hes having a fucking affair and he's obsessed with his fucking job. NOT because he lives two lives.

>>81973694
What is willful suspension of disbelief?

>>81973914
This

>>81973914
Do you know why Bale knew the trick with the old man and the fishbowl? It is because he knew about living the trick. That is why it is believable for them to be identical twins living the same life. This movie is pretty simple but takes a second viewing to get a better understanding. Again, I see no proof and more speculation based on assumptions.

Tesla's machine worked

Jackman cloned and killed himself dozens of times

Bale lived double lives with his twin brother for most of their lives

Deal with it you slack-jawed faggots

>>81974133
see >>81974105
thats the point of the movie, it's misdirection. it's an act shown to fool the viewer into believing in magic.

Tesla's machine worked.

>>81973914
>>81974105
are Nolan flicks so bad that you have to play mental gymnastics to this extent?

>>81974105
Your point about his wife would be believable if not for the fact that she says I don't believe you today when he says I love you. You will cherry pick shit to fit your narrative. Fuck off again

>>81969376
Angier went a little overboard to be honest

>>81974253
The machine worked

>>81974200
Start arguing with facts any time nigger. I'm still waiting

>>81974288
This. The machine worked.

>>81972347
If Tesla wasn't an actual real life wizard then why did they get David Bowie to play him?

>>81974242
HE'S HAVING AN AFFAIR AND HIS LIFE (FOR THE ENTIRE MOVIE) REVOLVES AROUND NOTHING BUT HIS DESIRE TO BE A GREAT MAGICIAN.

You think it's more likely that 2 brothers lived 1 life just for a fucking magic trick, than a wife being able to see her husband doesn't love her and that he's loving her less and less to the point where "i don't believe you today, you don't mean it today"??

>>81974288
It's interpretation. Do you want to believe that it's magic? good than you, like the auidence in the movie, is woahed and put into aw at what you see. But the entire movie is based around the fact that what you see isn't what's actually happening. E.G Misdirection, the primary tool of the magicians trade.

The fact that you actually beieve magic took place is why this movie is so fucking good. Even though, much like a real magicians trick in our reality, if you pay attention and look for flaws, you'll realize that magic isn't actually real and it's just for show

>>81974382
It isn't about whats more likely, this is a movie about extraordinary magicians who go to extraordinary lengths to one up each other. Bale had the twin card up his sleeve the whole time, giving him a hidden advantage that drove the other mad.

>>81974382
But thats wrong.

>>81974382
Yes I do believe it is MORE LIKELY that they are brothers because the movie set it up in the beginning with the two birds and the kid saying where is the brother.

Why would feel a scam Jackman with a bullshit machine that didnt fucking work? Did Bale's poor ass have enough money to pay him off. You are stupid and have again no concrete evidence. Live in your world of being too smart because you want to believe you figured out the movie and no one else did. Fuck off

>>81974288
you keep asking for facts, but what facts make you think your interpratation is the right one.

why do we never see borden living his life through the eyes of his "brother"? how does it make any sense that the lie borden used on jackman, actually ended up being true in the end and gave him a clonning machine in the fucking 19th century? How does jackman not know of bordens "brother"/manager before at all, even before it came significant to the development of the "transportation" man??

There are no "facts", how you interpret the movie is up to you. Do you believe in magic?

>>81974497
THIS IS A MOVIE NOT REALITY NIG-GER. If we saw Bale living life through his brother then that little reveal at the end would be fucking pointless. Again why would Tesla scam Jackman? Please I would love to know.

>>81974497
How about the fact that Jackman spoke on stage before his framing of Bale? I posted that as a reply in this thread already to the explanation that the dead body was Jackmans double, but it couldn't have been because he did not have an accent.

This destroys your theory, so you choose to ignore it.

>>81974105
That's nice and all but you missed the message of the movie which was also the last line: you want to be tricked.
When someone is told the solution to an elaborate trick they are always disappointed or even reject it because the explanation is too simple or they thought there could be real magic involved.
Now in the movie you have REAL magic but, when shown, your mind still doesn't believe it.
Nolan is a genius.

>>81969376
nolan

QED: The machine worked.
/thread

>>81974577
what makes you think angier ever actually met with jackman? Journal entries? Much liek the ones that lead him there in the first place, which was revealed to be complete bullshit

>>81974607
Root is an out of work actor that ends up being a drunk because he cannot find work. Does it sound unreasonable that an actor can learn an accent? I mean, to you it must sound less reasonable then magic clonning-teleporting machines

If it's still on netflix im going to rewatch the root scenes, because im pretty sure he ends up talking on stage and interacting with the auidence a few times, sounding exactly like Angier.

>>81974710
aniger ever met with tesla*

>>81974710
>im going to rewatch the root scenes
please dont

>>81974710
Jackman hated using him because it was too obvious it was a double. He was a liability, and even Bale didn't think he was using Root, as shown by his curiosity into this new version of the trick.

Bale already saw through Jackmans double earlier in the movie, I don't think he would even bother trying to find out how this new version was done if he believed it was with doubles. Considering he already knew who the double was and could've easily found if he was working with him or not again.

so dummies is now cannon, are we all agreed?

I love machines

This thread right here is The Prestige

>>81974914
we could argue both ways, the fact is the entire movie is shown sporadically, jumping in time between scenes. You could easily interpretate either way.

As a professional stage magician who has enjoyed a glamorous career of over 12 years, this thread is the funniest frickin thing I have ever seen on social media, including Facebook and Reddit. It's just so on the nose.

>>81975187
Why dont you go back to plebbit faggot

>>81975324
I'm there right now!

I too am a profession stage magician and I can say without a doubt this thread is profound. Also, I'm a clone.

>>81975358
I would appreciated it if you stayed there

>>81975475
I AM staying there, in a tab. I'm also on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and Snapchat.

Feels good!

As a manager of pro stage magicians Im not confident that my clientele should be interacting with sub-140 IQs on this chatroom

so they werent clones of angier they were just incredibly lifelike wax dummies. ok fine but then how did he do the trick?

>mans needs exceeds his grasps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PF76qlwWM8s

>>81975627
read the journal

>>81975693
its been established that the journals are full of shit

What is this fucking thread

>>81975890
This thread is a wax museum

>>81975941
This thread is the journals

LIFELIKE

This thread is under the stage in a tank

What should be discussion about a simple but good movie has become some retard posting about how he knows everything and cannot fathom that it is a movie.

This is the state of /tv/.

>>81969376
The Borden that tied the wrong knot on Angiers' wife. He should have known better. He kills a woman with his stupidity, and I'm supposed to feel good when Angiers gets killed at the end?

>>81979431
>and I'm supposed to feel good when Angiers gets killed at the end?
I don't think you were supposed to feel good. This movie is basically just a tragedy playing out.

>>81979500
I hope so. Either Bale or his brother was a fucking cunt and should have apologized to Angiers.

>>81970021
I'm confuz

Not meme response.

Angier was in the wrong for not getting over his wife's accident and blaming batman.

Not like Dub guy didn't fuck up, but angier really did become a 100% asshole in the end.

He should have stayed happy doing his gigs and fucking scarlet Johanson.

Hahahaha g

>>81972314
please be bait.

>>81973056
Yes but that was a part of the diary. Which has already been established as a false narrative.
You have to go back and pay attention to the parts where Borden is reading the diaries in jail and separate those from the rest of the movie, because the diaries are all fake. That's where you're having trouble understanding it.

This film is the ultimate brainlet filter.

>>81973023
fuck

>>81973023
fuuuuuck

>>81973023
Never noticed this.

>>81973023
the f-word

>>81969376
the silly bitch that told batman to use the wrong knot

>>81972873
All I see are a bunch of ad hoc explanations to make your pet theory fit the film. You might as well do this to any movie to attach any meaning you want.

>>81984686
You're so fucking dumb.

>>81984699
But you just take some premise you want to be true, and then pick and choose and twist the facts to support it. I'd put it down to irony but this specific form of autism is very common on the internet.

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>>81973023
holy...I want more..

>>81984773
>Hurr durr
Sub-1000 SAT scores confirmed

>>81973330
so why was Freddy, if he's just a guy Borden hired, willing to get hung in place of Borden

>>81984917
The whole point of the movie was that magic can be real, and it's plebs like Borden keeping a man down.

Prove me wrong.

can being autistic and missing the entire plot of a movie be a meme now
ripley WAS the alien
Bruce willis wasnt dead, everyone else was, he was the only one alive
the village in the village was actually teleported into the future
who needs facts when i can do an iq test on the internet that tells me i have an iq of 190

>>81985530
Just curious, what were your SAT scores?

You can't take those on the internet, you have to take them in a controlled environment, just so you know.

>>81985597
I live in canada we dont have sat scores
also notice I didnt mention sat scores, because earlier in this thread you literally mentioned iq

>>81985650
Anything analogous? I don't want to mince words here when you very well know what I mean.

>>81969376
NOLAN FOR CASTING TOO MANY CRACKAS!

FUCKING WHITE SUPREMACIST

>>81985692
no
you just get grades in school
then if they're high enough you go to college/ university
thats it
most western countries dont have something similar to sats no PXJT nothing.

>>81979431
The Borden that tied the knot tied the correct/usual knot as he was not the one that discussed/practiced the other harder knot and did not understand her signal, he did nothing wrong.

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Why did christian bale give the note that said TESLA to wolverine and told him he is the trick or something like that, for what purpose and why did he do that

>>81969376
Logan obviously; he fucking buried a man's brother alive to break his crypto and killed countless copies of himself to be the better magician. He was a fraud, a murderer and generally just a jealous asshole.

Batman literally pored himself into his work, both of them.

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why don't we just call nolan and ask him?

Scarlett for not getting her tits out.
She was still real hot in this movie though

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>>81970021