He killed millions.

To save billions.


Jk I don't watch nippon trash

>you can either build airplanes and the Japanese government will kill lots of people, or you can not build airplanes and the Japanese government will kill lots of people

The imaginary French aviator in his head had a point.

>>81906255
Italian

>>81906255
That doesn't seem like a very valid moral argument.

>>81906497
If people are going to die anyway why not just follow your passion?

>>81906600
Giving the military direct means to kill people, and potentially more people than they would have without you, just because you want to get paid for your hobby is selfish at the very best and at worst corroboration. It shows a concerning lack of moral principle that the movie conveniently ignores with a fictionalized love story in the third act

Surely you mean a dumb American president, 2 nukes and thousands of incendiary bombs killed millions.

>>81906768
nobody really anticipated the extent that aeroplanes would change war

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>>81905985

>>81906768
KILLIONS

>>81906768
So what should he have done? Rebelled?

>>81906887

Just... not made better fighter planes.

>>81906887
Maybe build aeroplanes for a non militaristic expansionist country??

>>81906851
By the late 30s they definitely knew, especially if you're in the military funded airplane industry

>>81906887
Got a different job if he really opposed the war, or felt more guilt over it. "At least I got to live muh dreams" is such a sick justification for the death's he inadvertently caused

I'm not trying to completely shit on the movie because I like what it's doing as a movie about art and expression, but they skirt the deeper issues of the story too much for me

>>81906922
That's a fair point. Though I haven't seen the film.

>>81906943
Guess I'll see it. Sounds real good.

>>81906768

This guy get it. He was a selfish prick

>>81905985
Jiro Horikoshi did nothing wrong.

>>81906887
Yes. All of his hopes were in airplanes and rebellions are built on hope.

>>81906922
>japan
expansionist
>china
civil war shithole that eventually turned into expansionist
>america
worse than japan in a numbers sense
>Dutch
at war with germany probably used to attack japan
>Great Britain
same as above
>Soviet Union
expansionist

hang on, were we watching the same movie?

One of the central themes is this guy just wants to make humans fly like birds do, and all of the shit that happens because of it.

>>81907092
YEAH BUT WHY DIDNT HE HAVE A CRYSTAL BALL AND SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE HIS PLANES KILLED BEFORE HE MADE THEM???????????

Japan didn't actually do anything wrong in WWII. They only attacked America's navy after they effectively blockaded them from vital war materials that they needed to capture and hold territory with the necessary resources to allow them true self-determination away from the global capitalist banker class. Alas, they lost and now are slaves to the will of what Western bankers want.

>>81907062
>Sweden
uh..
>Switzerland
umm..
>Mexico
fuck..

>>81907116
>They only attacked America's navy after they effectively blockaded them from vital war materials that they needed to capture and hold territory

Of course, it was purely in self defense

>>81907116
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre

>>81907116
And America blockaded them just for laughs? They were massively invading China and taking over the French colonies was the last straw.

>>81906497
>>81906768


Holy fuck

People die in war. Thats the fucking point.

He did a good thing for his nation and for humanity.

Technological innovation is never a bad thing.

The amount of people that die from it is merely a metric of it's success.

Fuck I hate this generation of people.

He followed his dreams and he created airplanes.

Are you telling me airplanes should not have been created because "muh human lives"

>>81907205
It's like giving a gun to a psychopath and saying "guns aren't bad mmkay".

>>81907116
Hi, Yamazuki. Remember something called the Rape Of Nanking? Go repopulate your island before I fold you a thousand times.

>>81907116
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes

>>81907225
Psychos killing people aimlessly is not justifiable.

Wars are

>>81907186
>>81907236
chinese arent human, try again

He designed a fighter plane. Fighters fight enemy fighters and bombers and support craft and on rare occasion interceptors. They don't even carry bombs. I highly doubt the plane he designed killed millions. If anything they probably saved millions of Japanese civilians.

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>>81907183
Why are Americans so retarded? Educate yourselves, you sheep.
>In 1945, the United States began bombing Japan using incendiary weapons. 51% of Tokyo was destroyed, killing 100,000. 58% of Yokohama was incinerated. Virtually all of Toyama was wiped out. 40% of Nagoya was burnt to a crisp. 67 Japanese cities suffered massive losses during the United States’ firebombing campaign. After all of that, the US dropped two atomic bombs, leveling Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

>>81907116
Lmfao read a god damn history book

>Japan did literally nothing wrong in WWII

Toppest kek.

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Why does Anno hate America so much? Is he a Japanese Nazi?

>>81907186
>>81907202
>>81907231
>>81907236

Every country committed a few war crimes, but the ones alleged of the axis powers are exaggerated if not straight up hoaxes, simply because they lost and can't defend themselves.

>>81907202
The Americans blockaded Japan to provoke an attack so that they could have a causus belli which they could sell to the people in order to wage a war to conquer the Pacific for themselves. And that's what happened.

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ITT: HURR DURR INVENTORS WHO INVENT NEW THINGS THAT END UP KILLING PEOPLE ARE BAD. FUCK SCIENCE HUMANS ARE PRECIOUS XD!

This is why I secretly hope the elite plan on killing 90% of us.

>>81907287
Scorched Earth etc.

>>81907326
Are oyou saying the rape of Nanking DIDN'T happen, Yamasuka?

>>81907287
that was after pearl harbor

>>81907326
>b-b-b-but everyone was doing it
to the victor go the spoils

>>81907273

Although they were designed as fighters, they were still sometimes loaded with bombs and were often used as kamikaze bombs once the design had become completely obsolete as an actual fighter when up against late war American fighters.

>>81907205
>Are you telling me airplanes should not have been created because "muh human lives"

Yes? Planes are shit anyway

>>81907331

Well played on America's part. Pity they didn't keep pushing East in Europe.

>>81907362
Oh well. Not really the designer's fault then, and I doubt they killed 100,000, let alone millions.

>>81907371
>he wants people to use trains and ships because he gets triggered by people dying in war

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>>81907371
>Yes?
So boats shouldn't have been created for the same reason? Why do anything you fucking namby pamby.

Unpopular opinion: The Wind Rises is Miyazaki's best movie.

n/y?

>>81905985
shut up idiot

If only he had killed your grandfather so you wouldn't be alive to make this cringey OP

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>>81907344

This

/thread

He did nothing.

Science and Innovation > Random humans

>>81907344

>>81907403
It's certainly the one that provokes the most discussion on /tv/.

>>81906255
Was he a wastaboo appropriating European designs?

>Weeds literally defending the war-crimes of Imperial Japan as dundu nuffins while saying America was the real cause of Pearl Harbor

How many fucking wall-scrolls do you faggots have hanging right now?

>>81907415
he did nothing wrong*

>>81907331

>The Americans blockaded Japan to provoke an attack so that they could have a causus belli which they could sell to the people in order to wage a war to conquer the Pacific for themselves.

It was all le conspiracy by le evul capitalists.

Truly Japan were the victims here.

>>81907384
Japan was in a lose-lose situation. Pearl Harbour was a trap, but if the Japanese really could have sunk the entire fleet then they would have gotten the gas from the Americans to win against China and we'd all be speaking Japanese now.

>>81907205
That's not what I'm saying at all.

He didn't work out of a sense of patriotism, or just as anonymous work to feed himself in a country moving to war with or without him. He had a deep personal investment in making the best killing machines that he possibly could, and all moral hindrance there is brushed over for the temporary beauty of seeing his planes fly. I don't think the two can be separated. He made beautiful planes that were also highly effective killing machines, but he seems content to ignore the latter so long as he gets to keep working.

There's nothing wrong with creating things that end up hurting people, or working for the military, just how he rationalizes it in such a selfish way. You would never hear Robert Oppenheimer waxing poetic about the nukes because it gave him the means to pursue his passions in physics.

Friendly reminder to never waste your time arguing with American and /pol/tards on historical and political matters.

>>81907349
>scorched earth
Oh, yes. Citing war-time practices surely exempts all responsibility. Great argument.

>>81907425

None of the Axis powers did anything wrong except Italy.

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To the people saying he did something wrong.

Do you honestly believe airplanes shouldn't have been invented because humans dying is bad?

How do I leave this timeline?

>>81907344
Might as well kick it off by ending yourself because you seem all for it and nothing of value would be lost

>>81907452
>surely exempts all responsibility
Who said anything about exempting responsibility? They did it. It's well documented. WWII was a shitty time. But I'm not gonna get all sentimental. The U.S. was nipping, no pun intended, the conflict in the bud.

>>81907452
america was justified destroying industrial centers

which is what they did

>>81907357
>>b-b-b-but everyone was doing it

Really, what is it with revisionist-fags who deny responsibility by saying everyone is a war criminal/imperialist/racist but at the same time play the victim card when it happens to them?

ITT: weebs

if the movie was from another nationality / not anime no will will even be defending this

>>81907403
His best movies all revolve around aviation.

>an eye for an eye is morally justifiable
Why are you teenage and poorly educated faggots spouting your bullshit out of /pol/?

>>81907452

>STOP SAYING THE AXIS DID ANYTHING WRONG!!! FUCKING AMERICANS AND /POL/!!!

Holy shit, drink bleach.

>>81907331
>economic pressure is justification for bombing non combatants

I guess America is justified in nuking China then

>>81907534
The end can justify the means if the results of the end is more good than how evil the means are

Congrats /tv/ this is one of the worst threads I've ever seen

He's no worse than Wernher von Braun.

>>81907534
ghandi was a faggot
do to others what you would like done to yourself

>>81907524
Reply to me: >>81907500
C'mon. Do it

>>81907560
Nice contribution with your nonpost you fucking bitch.

>>81905985

This was such a forgettable movie. The only thing I remember from it is the earthquake scene.

>>81907534

>implying an eye for an eye ISN'T morally justifiable

Wait, what?

>>81907574
>>>81907524 (You)
>Reply to me: >>81907500
>C'mon. Do it

no clue what you're getting at

>>81907593
The voice-as-sound effects during the earthquake were the best part

>technological innovation is good regardless of the consequences

I wonder if you will be singing that same tune when we are incinerated by global nuclear hellfire sometime in the future.

But in any case, that's not the point Miyasaki was making, Miyasaki is at heart both a humanist and very anti-technology, you can see that also in Mononoke. What he is pointing out is that sometimes you dreams will be abused and used for an ulterior motive.

>>81907534

>dude retaliation isn't justifiable!

>that guy is a Trump-supporter! PUNCH HIM!

You libshit /leftypol/ retards really need to make up your fucking minds.

>>81907606
I thought >>81907524 and >>81907452

were you, since you both brought up responsibility where it wasn't fit to.

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>>81907528
Does this look like the viewpoint of a weeb?

It's not his fault some of the Japanese army committed war crimes. He was an honorable war engineer by his own right, and supporting your military is virtuous as long as you're being honorable about it.

>>81907331

>WE HAD TO ATTACK THEM!!! THEY WEREN'T GIVING US OIL FOR FREE!!!

Wow, why did I never think of this? That totally justifies a mass sneak-attack on non-combatants.

>>81907617
It's not the 20th century anymore man. No one really thinks about MAD except maybe Israel..

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>>81907593

Oh, and this creepy face. Had nightmares about him for a week afterwards.

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>>81907421
>Was he a wastaboo appropriating European designs?

What is anime?

>>81907617
I don't see Mononoke as anti-tech at all. The industrial city is something of a utopia for marginalized people in the other big cities of the time. Prostitutes and lepers are given greater roles there than a farming society would allow them. It's safe and self-sufficient. Only the greed and pollution was bad

>>81907500
>The U.S. was nipping, no pun intended, the conflict in the bud.
Japan was doomed towards 1945, yet the Americans went and bombarded the nip "industrial centers" killing hundreds of thousands in the process, because foreign civilian lives were less important than the military. It's as simple as that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RceLAhPOS9Q

Fucking Truman and the retarded democrats.

Japan should have helped their ally Germany by invading the Soviet Union instead, then they could have split that territory with the Germans.

>>81907692
if they were doomed they should have surrendered

>>81907692
They didn't surrender. Gotta keep the fight going. Simple as that, man.

>>81907639
You'd have to be an American to not appreciate the irony of an American saying this.

How many countries have you invaded over the past half century for threatening your gas prices?

>>81907692

>implying the Union didn't do the same thing to their fellow countrymen in the Southern Confederacy during the American Civil War

C'mon man, it wasn't because they're racist. It's because one of the best ways to win war, just like in Starcraft, is to fuck up the economy and production whenever you see that it isn't being properly defended. And it wasn't anything the Japanese weren't themselves doing to the places they had conquered.

>>81907723
Akcthually we invaded Afghanistan the first time because the Ruskies were doing it.

>>81907692

>Japan was doomed towards 1945

Then why didn't they surrender?

>>81907723

>DUDE IT'S ALL A CONSPIRACY BY LE BIG OIL COMPANIES!!!

How's that BBC cum taste?

>>81907723

Oil is a perfectly valid reason to start a war, just like everything America did to win the war they started was perfectly valid.

>these weebs actually defending japan in ww2

>>81907700

Japs were spread thin enough as it was. Stalin had plenty of reserves out east and would have resulted in a stalemate in siberia

>>81907775
They tried to. The Japanese went to the Soviets to try to open diplomatic channels with the US to offer surrender and negotiate terms. The US knew this and offered two responses.

>>81907700

That would have been pretty hard to do. USSR had a lot of troops on the border. Siberia is also a fucking awful place to conquer, let alone invade through.

>>81907700
Soviets were numerically and technologically superior, Japan would have been absolutely btfo

>>81907717
>>81907705
>>81907775
>b-but why did the proud nip samurais didnt surrent
Here's a related thought. Why did America take so fucking long to pull out of Vietnam?

ITT: Science is bad, killing humans is the worst thing that can happen in the world

>>81907840
just by attacking they would have split the soviet forces enough that germany could have capitulated them

>>81907654
typicalgaijin.jpg

>>81907810
>You can't argue without taking sides!
And this, ladies and gents, is why it sucks to be educated in America.

>>81907812
>>81907835
>>81907840

Why was Germany even in an alliance with them for then? They might have kept France, Poland and defeated Communism if Japan hadn't brought America into the war against them.

>>81907889
hitler actually cheered when USA joined the war

>>81907870
Japan had her plate full. The Manchurian Border Skirmishes proved to command that Japanese forces weren't well enough supplied or equipped to take and hold Soviet territory so they concentrated on China.

>>81907902

wtf why

>>81907919
They were already in a de facto war on the Atlantic. US was supplying Britain and Soviets with shit tons of free supplies etc. Pearl Harbor at least least gave slap to their face.

>>81907865
>le rick and morty poster shows up

>>81907845
What? Why are you talking about Vietnam? You said that Japan was doomed, and asked why the U.S. continued to bomb. Japan did not surrender, hence the bombing. Don't be stupid.

>>81907723
>it's the Iraq war was started over oil meme

this is highly contentious because A. America didn't actually seize the oil after invading and B. oil prices in 2003 were actually very low and had been low for well over a decade

>>81908066
I'd like to play a game of chess with you.

>>81908092
I would have to teach you the rules.

>>81908161
Being unable to think past the current move would be a major handicap for you.

>>81906917
That was the price of genius in war. The dude was one of the best plane makers in the world at the time and helped create one of the greatest planes in the world at the time.

>>81908392
Fortunately speed chess is the only type of chess worth playing.

He was given his time in the sun, and he did what he enjoyed, it was the right decision for him.

>>81908439
bullet or blitz anon?

>>81907331
Why wouldn't the US block Japan? Japan was allied with Germany and Germany invaded Belgium which was Allied with the UK which was allied to the US. So they were already enemies at that point.

>>81907639
>non-combatants.

>>81906768
If your military kills fewer people, the other military will just kill more of them.

>>81908439
>not Chess960
>spending your time root-memorizing chess openings like an autist and then feeling superior to people who spend their time actually studying worthful information

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Are you people really saying that inventing airplanes is bad because they can be used to kill people?

Well fuck I guess we shouldn't make nanobots since those could be used to brainwash people.

>>81908604
>you people
>like one guy who's probably trolling