Could a movie be made of Dante's Inferno?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VI2U3K-gBk

Its already been done, perfectly.

Zack Snyder directing.

>Dante
Henry Cavill

>Virgil
Ben Affleck

>Satan
Idris Elba

>>81862586
>gib me some Christian torture porn guilt passion play about Hell and how everybody sucks
Yeah, no thanks

Sure! There's a huge audience for Renaissance Italian politics wrapped in esoteric Roman Catholic mysticism. I nominate Idris Elba as Virgil. Let's have Sony do the distribution, too.

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Satan isn't a character. He doesn't say anything.

>>81862721
Kys, Dante was the first Modernist, and the Comedy is bad ass.

Your Gene Selection, Phlogiston theory loving Cuck God has nothing on Dante.

>>81862721
>Fucking implying the whole thing wouldn't be twisted by the writer and director into being a bash session against "homophobes," hypocritical christians, racists, and possibly even God himself.

>Dante
Keanu Reeves

>Virgil
Allen Rickman

>Satan
John Candy

Written and directed by Robert Zemeckis

>>81862835
Yes, because Christian films are known for their poignant criticism on modern social issues. Mel Gibson is really just an ironic atheist.

>>81862788
>Your Gene Selection, Phlogiston theory loving Cuck God has nothing on Dante.
The fuck does any of this mean?

>>81862788
>Satan isn't a character. He doesn't say anything.
someone who actually read the thing

There are roles for an angel, a platoon of demons, and almost every famous person of the ancient classical era

>>81862788
>Dante was the first Modernist
And they plunge him into hell. What's the message?

>>81862903
at what point did the OP say it would be a christian filmmaker? The subject implies (an perhaps necessitates) a huge budget, not some small christian film. Do you honestly think every work produced by the christian world has to be adapted by a christian creator, or has?

>>81862959
Who is they?

>>81862586
>betraying guests and country is worse than betraying your family
wut

>>81862990
Dante's Inferno is one of the most iconic CHRISTIAN stories in their entire anthology. Of course they would want to pander to a Christian audience.

>>81862586
Umm, sweetie? Your little "god" delusion isn't real, so no one would watch your shitty little movie. Read a book other than the Bible and people might take you seriously. Let's pretend this thread never happened.

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>>81862586

Would it include the scene where Dante and Virgil find Muhammad split open from chin to anus, continually suffering in hell for spreading the false religion of Islam? Crying, begging, and screaming about how he repents for spreading lies and how he made Islam up to get rich and powerful, while being continuously tortured and whipped by demons?

>No barrel, not even one where the hoops and staves go every which way, was ever split open like one frayed Sinner I saw, ripped from chin to where we fart below.
>His guts hung between his legs and displayed His vital organs, including that wretched sack Which converts to shit whatever gets conveyed down the gullet.
>As I stared at him he looked back And with his hands pulled his chest open, Saying, "See how I split open the crack in myself! See how twisted and broken Mohammed is!

Or do you think JJ Abrams might leave that scene out?

>>81862990
>Do you honestly think every work produced by the christian world has to be adapted by a christian creator, or has?
Most have or have been Christian masturbatory pandering for Jesus bucks.

>>81862586
they'd just use the plot from the video game because it would be cape shit-ish.

>>81863042
Because the State is important.

You can live without your family, but man is nothing without some form of society.

If you betray that, you're going against the very fabric of human society. In addition, they believed that human society was divinely ordained, so it's even worse.

Also, being a bad guest is one of the most evil things you could ever do in antiquity

>>81862995
Idk, God and co.? The writer? Whatever.

>>81863126
>t. North Korean

>>81863092


Anyone have a recommended translation?

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>"why isn't there a faithful and tasteful modernist adaptation of Dante in Jewish Hollywood?"

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>>81862586
The video game was absolute KINO

>>81863166
I've only ever read the Longfellow one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3M9e6jxA9tA

>>81863166
(((Mandelbaum)))

>>81863236
for vidya, the story was pretty decent. could make a good action flick.

>>81863229
>THE JEWWSSSSS REEEEEEEE OMG SAVE ME JESUS!

>>81862586
godcucks are pathetic
>don't do bad stuff your you will go to hell and burn forever and stuff
yeah, we got it. You have a certain IQ and you get it. Is anything more plebe than buying into societal stabilizing memes that coalesced because the average person can't figure out what's good for them? Isn't this just evidence of average introspective ability?

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>>81863236
>>81862586
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dante%27s_Inferno:_An_Animated_Epic

This was the best version I've seen so far. Still it is lacking.

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Appearantly Warner Bros owns the rights to Alghieri's "Dante's Inferno" since 2015.

Can you imagine Tarsem Singh directing that shit? It would've been like cranking the kino dial up to 11.

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>>81863419
Dante's Inferno is just a cool story, guy. You don't have to be a "godcuck" to enjoy it. Why don't you go watch the Amazing Atheist or post on r/atheism about how much you hate the Church?

>>81863419
Go back to watching Rick and Morty u philistine.

Dante's Inferno is a classic that inspired Joyce, Blake, etc. It's really good.

>>81863780
>still pretending Rick and Morty is a bad show
Are you looking forward to God's Not Dead 3, anon?

>>81863140
Dante was the writer, Einstein.

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>>81862646
I just fucking love how when you pause a video now some stupid ads for other videos take up half the screen so I have to click out of it every time i pause.

>>81862586
>Suicide
Why is suicide a sin? I'm completely lost here...

>>81864118

The official Catholic line is that suicide and murder are equivalent sins, because either way you are prematurely ending a life which was a gift from God and for which God had already formulated a plan. Using your earthly free will to interfere with divine matters is generally speaking a one-way ticket to Hell according to traditional dogma.

>>81864118
You're denying the life God gave you. Shunning all that His will and grace offers. A refusal of faith in all redemption and mission.
I'm only surprised Dante didn't place it lower

>>81864214
Read >>81864219, thats not the teaching of the Church its not an autistic formula of Suicide=Murder=Sin

>>81864214
>>81864219
That's really sad, I don't see why God can't just forgive people for killing themselves.

>>81864288
God's Grace is always open to sinners, its not an act He has to make. Its something thats always there that we must fulfill for ourselves by accepting it.
If you kill yourself you can't accept that grace. You are gone

>>81863568
How do you own the rights to a 700 year old story?

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>>81864118
"Not only is suicide a sin, it is the sin. It is the ultimate and absolute evil, the refusal to take an interest in existence; the refusal to take the oath of loyalty to life. The man who kills a man, kills a man. The man who kills himself, kills all men; as far as he is concerned he wipes out the world. His act is worse (symbolically considered) than any rape or dynamite outrage. For it destroys all buildings: it insults all women. The thief is satisfied with diamonds; but the suicide is not: that is his crime. He cannot be bribed, even by the blazing stones of the Celestial City. The thief compliments the things he steals, if not the owner of them. But the suicide insults everything on earth by not stealing it. He defiles every flower by refusing to live for its sake. There is not a tiny creature in the cosmos at whom his death is not a sneer. When a man hangs himself on a tree, the leaves might fall off in anger and the birds fly away in fury: for each has received a personal affront. Of course there may be pathetic emotional excuses for the act. There often are for rape, and there almost always are for dynamite. But if it comes to clear ideas and the intelligent meaning of things, then there is much more rational and philosophic truth in the burial at the cross-roads and the stake driven through the body, than in Mr. Archer's suicidal automatic machines. There is a meaning in burying the suicide apart. The man's crime is different from other crimes -- for it makes even crimes impossible."

>>81864385
With the power of Judaism all things are possible

>>81863981
Yes and?

>>81864258

No, that's your own interpretation.

The official line is that your life and the lives of others are the property of God and God alone, He merely gives them to us as gifts. To destroy either your own or another's life is to spit in God's eye and assert dominion over Him. While murder is a more grave ethical violation here on Earth, the mortal sin is the same.

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>>81864487
>No, that's your own interpretation.

I think reddit is more your scene friend

>>81864487
Have you actually ever read the Bible?

>>81864514

By the heavens, what a logically invulnerable, theologically grounded refutation. I humbly recant my heretical ramblings.

>>81863126
Wrong statist.

>>81864559

Yes, have you?

>>81864628
I just have nothing to say. The very notion you can be said to have an "interpretation" of the Bible is already places you as a hermeneutic imbecile

>>81862586
If they filmed it as written it would be incredibly boring. Have you read it? Not a good book to make into a film.

You could do some fanfiction type bullshit but what's the point

>>81864410
>For it destroys all buildings: it insults all women
???

>>81864713

>The very notion you can be said to have an "interpretation" of the Bible

I take it you weren't paying attention over the last 2,000 years in which wars were fought and kingdoms rose and fell in the name of slightly different interpretations of the Bible?

No man is perfect, and even if the Bible in its current translations were a 1:1 copy of the logos there would be no way for any priest or scholar to have perfectly comprehended it. You and I are no different in that respect, and all I've done is explain the official doctrine of the modern Catholic Church, which on the topic of suicide was also the doctrine in Dante's time.

>>81864836
>I take it you weren't paying attention over the last 2,000 years in which wars were fought and kingdoms rose and fell in the name of slightly different interpretations of the Bible?

That was not an issue of interpretation. The message is there to be accepted, it is the way of sin to deny it through misrepresentation.

>>81862586
HOLY shit I was just about to make this thread. A Dante's Inferno movie would have to be R rated.

>>81862586
>reading bible fanfiction
wew

>>81864713
Ambiguity is a good thing. It adds richness to the text

>>81864995
And 4 hours long

>>81864996
All literature is reality-fan-fiction

>>81864475
Please read the political exile of Dante and you may understand why he, the writer, put himself in his story.

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>>81864410
>refusing to participate in life you had no option to participate in.
>MAKES YOU THE FUCKING WORST OMFG YOU JUST COMMITTED THE WORST SIN EVER
>WORSE THAN GENOCIDE, MURDER, RAPE
>YOU ARE SCUM AND THE WORST CRIMINAL IMAGINABLE SO YOU DESERVE TO BE CONDEMNED TO THE LOWEST LEVEL OF INFINIFE TORTURE
Christians are fucking insane, this is insane talk.

I know why it would never happen, but I would love to see a movie that tackles Christian mythos a la Paradise Lost or something similar showing Revelations and Behemoth and Leviathan fucking up the Earth and shit. It would literally never happen, but a mythology extended universe would actually be fucking cool. That shit was the original comic books.

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>>81864996
The bible itself is just a bunch of blog posts and fan fiction from the dead sea scrolls and a few other sources. It is literally like reading an ancient 4chan BBS.

>>81864487
What a controlling faglord he is.

>>81865130
>recieve gift
>thinks it's acceptable to spitefully throw it in the trash simply because you didn't ask for it

I don't know if Christians are insane, but I know you have no grasp of social etiquette

>>81862586
>dante
a nigger, make him gay

>virgil
a nigger, make him trans

>satan
white man

>>81864915

>The message is there to be accepted, it is the way of sin to deny it through misrepresentation.

Unfortunately for mankind, the perceived content of God's message and the exact nature of what constitutes "misrepresentation" varies quite wildly from church to church. A common English expression used to describe such a phenomenon is "different interpretations".

You have to be seriously deluded to believe that interpretations of the Bible don't vary - how do you think we ended up with three extremely different arms of the Abrahamic faith, or gay Anglican priests? How else do you explain the coexistence of Templar crusaders and JW pacifists under the umbrella of Christianity?

>>81864713
What are you arguing? That people don't interpret the Bible in different ways? But...anon...this literally happens, all the time. You sound fucking retarded. There are literally dozens of denominations because nobody agrees.

>>81864487
So you're saying that killing myself is the only way to assert my power over God? Wtf I love suicide now.

>>81865280
I like you

>>81864915
You are being a big fucking tard, anon.

>>81862586
Do you really think people would pay to see a movie that involves basically everyone other than good Christians tortured in increasingly horrible ways?

Especially one that prominently features suicide victims and people from other religions getting tormented?

>>81865252

Not really, you always have the freedom to kill yourself, that decision is entirely in your hands. It's only the consequences that aren't.

>>81864915
How the fuck do you read something without interpreting it? Holy kek.

>>81865302
>how did we wind up with gay Anglican priests?
That's easy.
The Church of England was founded in heresy and it was only a matter of time before Satan corrupted them entirely.

>>81865280
>don't ask for a gift
>"hey anon, thanks but no thanks"
>you: "WTF IS WRONG WITH YO, DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND SOCIAL ETIQUETTE??
>"well, great but I didn't ask for it..."
>you: "THAT DOESN'T MATTER IT IS A GIFT AND YOU MUST ALWAYS ACCEPT IT".

Yes, crazy talk anon.

>>81863082
hahahahha look at this guy

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No memeing this would be pretty cool to see in a movie.

The first level of Dante's Hell is a city full of mosques, It also includes a section devoted to torturing people who have had anal sex. This movie would never get made.

>>81865379
It's amazing how the Anglican church is dying so quickly and their solution is to get increasingly less Christian.

>>81865280
>I don't know if Christians are insane
FUCKING KEK
>muh social etiquette
Nice false equivolence. My life isn't here to please you or make you feel validated.

>>81865375
But that is manipulative. There really is no choice if I get punished for making them that God just decides he doesn't like.

>>81865435
Virgil is such a bro.

How would they do a movie about the Comedy though? All three parts would make sense but most people probably only care about Inferno.

>>81865318

Sure, but once you're dead it still rests with Him to weigh and measure your soul, and because of your mortal sin you will forever be disallowed from entering the Kingdom of God when the time comes.

The house always wins, anon.

>>81865420
Are you arguing that Dante's Inferno isn't Christian?

>>81862586
>Incontinece
what did he mean by this

>>81865416
"Thanks but no thanks" is not a destructive act like suicide is.

>you: "THAT DOESN'T MATTER IT IS A GIFT AND YOU MUST ALWAYS ACCEPT IT".
Do you have any idea how many cultures turning down a gift is a grievous offense in?
Seriously, you're a barbarian.
No scratch that, even barbarians have more social grace.

>>81863126
bad guests suck though fuck that.

>>81865527
Bedwetters must be punished for their crimes.

>>81865453
>My life isn't here to please you or make you feel validated.
I never claimed to be God anon, it's not me who would be offended by your suicide.
Quite the opposite in fact.
:3

>>81865488

There's only one good choice, but there's still two options. Kill yourself or don't, you have the freedom to choose.

Isn't it entitled and illogical to insist that whenever you exercise your free will, the outcome of every decision should always have equal consequences regardless of your choice? What would be the point of free will? Why do you alone deserve the freedom to eschew punishment or reward?

>>81865539
>is not a destructive act like suicide is.
Sorry that you don't like free agency and prefer to villify people who suffer from suicidal thoughts or depression by making them feel like they aren't entitled to their own fucking life.
>Do you have any idea how many cultures turning down a gift is a grievous offense in?
So what? I don't care. I don't live in slme backwater society where we kill people over insults.
>Seriously, you're a barbarian.
Right, it's me

>>81865539
>social grace
I bet you use the term "degeneracy" unironically

>>81865604
Wow, you are incredibly butthurt over absolutely nothing at all.

>>81863419
What a pathetic faggot...

>>81865624
of course!
It's a perfectly cromulent word.

>>81865604

>villify people who suffer from suicidal thoughts or depression by making them feel like they aren't entitled to their own fucking life

Anon, it's the people who attempt and commit suicide who believe they aren't entitled to their life. That's the whole problem, the reality is the opposite; they aren't entitled to throw it away.

>>81865519

The Bill of Rights is one of the most iconic A M E R I C A N pieces of legislature ever written

>90% of americans don't know what's even on it

retards

>>81865539
Life isn't a gift, it's an imposition.

>>81865581
>There's only one good choice, but there's still two options.
Then there really isn't a real choice.
>Kill yourself or don't, you have the freedom to choose.
But if I was a Christian, I am forced to stay alive to avoid infinite punishment. That is being held hostage, anon.
>Isn't it entitled and illogical to insist that whenever you exercise your free will, the outcome of every decision should always have equal consequences regardless of your choice?
Because the board is already set to not allow real free will. Punishment for killing yourself? Come on.
>What would be the point of free will?
To be a free agent.
>Why do you alone deserve the freedom to eschew punishment or reward?
First of all, no human crime deserves infinite punishment. Not a single one. Secondly, if I am only being a good boy because I am deathly afraid of being punished, I'm not sincere, thirdly, any deity that actively punishes outcomes of free will they themselves pretend to encourage, they are being hypocrites.

It's punishing choices you don't like.

>>81865684
You have a juvenile and simplistic understand of suicide, don't you? Sometimes people kill themselves to feel control.

>>81865747
The two qualities are seldom mutually exclusive.

>>81865691
Is there a point here?

>>81865747

How do you know? Do you remember being not alive and having birth unwillingly thrust upon you? What's to say your soul didn't line up in a millennia-long queue at the Heavenly DMV to get granted a License to Live, and only now that it hasn't turned out exactly like you wanted it to, you're being an ungrateful little bitch about the whole thing?

>>81865789
People kill themselves because they're mentally ill. They're not feeling much of anything, let alone control when they're dead.

>>81865684
>call depressed and suicidal people "entitled" for wanting to die
I think you are a scummy person, you fucking piece of shit. This is why Christians are so backwards, you think everyone else around you needs to fucking please your autism.

The most entitled faggots out there. Witj your pompous, "those who are suicidal are just entitled" meme.

>>81865870
>all people who kill themselves are mentally ill
Christ, this meme again? You people have such a shitty understanding of the world around you.

>>81865747
I think that's the entire point, that life should be viewed as a gift, not a burden. Easier said than done, but that's also the point.

It's logically not as immoral as killing another, obviously; the takeaway is that murdering another for reasons is bad, but murdering yourself for reasons is akin to murdering someone good-hearted and innocent.

There's often insightful messages that can't be taken literally, if you did it would appear fucking crazy, but there's good intent in a lot of religious teachings.

>>81865870
Go fuck yourself, brainlet. You have a childish hand waving understanding of tje complexity around depression and suicide.

Christfags are the worst.

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>>81864452

>>81865950
>but murdering yourself for reasons is akin to murdering someone good-hearted and innocent.
What if you are a horrible person?

>>81865841
Where do souls come from? We were about 300 millions 200 years ago, now we're almost 8 billions. Seriously, is there a souls factory somewhere? And what about those kids born in, say, Africa that die of starvation before they turn 5, are the souls of those kids so eager to come into the world that they choose to live horribly and die in pain just a few months later? Is everything just a chance, like, every souls in this queue gets to live a random life, or is everything carefully planned? If so, there is no free will, no real choice.

>>81865789

>ou have a juvenile and simplistic understand of suicide, don't you?

I can assure you that I don't.

>Sometimes people kill themselves to feel control.

Ironic, then, that they never get to feel control, only the cold embrace of death and the inevitability of whatever follows.

>>81865969
>You have a childish hand waving understanding of tje complexity around depression and suicide.
Nigger...
Depression is a mental illness.
There's no "complexity" about that.
Seriously what the fuck?

>>81866112
>I can assure you that I don't.
If you think you can hand wave that everyone who is suicidal is mentally ill, then yes.
>Ironic, then, that they never get to feel control
The point is that some people who suffer from manic depression feel at the whim of everyone else, that their own life is the only thing they can decide on. Have you ever known or had a human conversation with someone suffering? It isn't black and white like you think.

>>81866156
>Depression is a mental illness.
Yes, but you said everyone who is suicidal, thinking about killing themselves or has ever thought about it, is automatically mentally ill. That is retarded.
>There's no "complexity" about that.
Depression isn't a complex issue? Holy shit, get out.

>>81866090
>waaah starving children in Africa life is horrible
Oh just fucking kill yourself already if life is so awful you whiny faggot.
Seriously.
If life is so fucking awful WHY IS CHILDREN STARVING TO DEATH BAD and if children starving to death isn't bad WHY ARE YOU PRETENDING TO CARE?

>>81866232
>everyone who is suicidal, thinking about killing themselves or has ever thought about it, is automatically mentally ill. That is retarded.
No it isn't.
>Depression isn't a complex issue?
Learn to fucking read you butthurt faggot.

>>81866234
>waaah starving children in Africa life is horrible
Christian love and empathy, everyone.

>>81866267
>No it isn't.
It is, because completely normal people have considered suicide in some capacity.

>>81866269
Where did I say I was Christian?
dumbass

>>81866312
Then what sort of moralfag are you then that pretends to care about human suffering just to get brownie points?

>>81866302
What exactly in your opinion, precludes normal people from suffering from mentall illness you stigmatizing asshole?

>>81866267
>Learn to fucking read you butthurt faggot.
See:
>Depression is a mental illness.
There's no "complexity" about that.

Your wording implies there is a level of simplicity to depression itself, in it being a mental illness.

>>81866332
I asked you first, Mr. Starving African Babies.

>>81866012
I know you're playing devil's avaccado, but I honestly don't know. In that context you might end up MULTI-HELL DRIFTING

Basically it's the principle that you shouldn't destroy yourself, because you're worth it. It's a tragedy, and the logical obsurdity of it weighing heavier than murder is there to emphasize that you're worth living for.

Of all the things people say "Don't do it!"; killing peopls, stealing shit, etc etc, these are all quite logical in that they cause suffering, so don't do it. But suicide is more complex, and ultimately when people say "don't do it!" it can be reasoned with a "but...", so they emphasize the severity of it being bad.

>>81866359
Again, your premise is assuming that only the mentally ill consider suicide. The premise is wrong.

>>81866374
My wording implies there is no complexity about the statement that depression is a mental illness. If you dispute that, then you're retarded.

>>81866391
I am a different anon and Agnostic Atheist.

>>81866234
Good, in depht answer, it gives me a lot to think. You must be a theologician, at least.

>>81864475
Keep in mind he also goes to Purgatory and Heaven. Inferno is just the first part of the Divine Comedy.

>>81865763

>Then there really isn't a real choice.

Yes there is. Choices where the results are unequal are still choices, and in fact make up the huge majority of choices available to us.

>But if I was a Christian, I am forced to stay alive to avoid infinite punishment.

According to the Bible, that is the case regardless of whether you are a Christian or not, and the reward for having done so is eternal salvation and joy living alongside God in His Kingdom.

>Because the board is already set to not allow real free will.

"Real free will" sounds an awful lot like "no true Scotsman" to me, anon. Punishment for killing yourself, reward for not killing yourself. Win vs. lose. Standard spread of options for making an independent decision.

>To be a free agent.

And what would be the point of being a free agent if all your choices had the same result?

>First of all, no human crime deserves infinite punishment. Not a single one.

That's your opinion.

>Secondly, if I am only being a good boy because I am deathly afraid of being punished, I'm not sincere

Agreed. There's plenty of positive reasons to live virtuously, by no means limited to whatever happens after death.

>any deity that actively punishes outcomes of free will they themselves pretend to encourage, they are being hypocrites.

That's your opinion, again.

>It's punishing choices you don't like.

No, it's God punishing choices that He doesn't like, and the consequences were made quite clear ahead of time.

>>81866434
Nobody is arguing that.

>>81866456
Again...and?

>>81866456
What is heaven like?

>>81866464
>Christfag gymnastics he learned in Bible study
I'm not surprised but I'm also not wasting any more time. It's not like you faggots listen to anyone anyway.

YES! White males go in every layer and drumpf is at the bottom

>>81866562
>>>/pol/

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Don't listen to protestants. There is no hell.
If you reject god, you end up in the same place where those who didn't reject god do. Right by his side. What changes is whether you decided to reject his love in in the first place.
If you accepted god's love, his love is warm and inviting. If you rejected it, the same love is searing and piercing. God will always bring you into the fold, but it's your choice whether that love burns or saves.

>tell someone I like their hair when I really don't
>go to a worse hell than a guy who rapes and murders women for a living
WOWWWW FUCKING BUGGED HELL MECHANICS

>>81866503
it's balls

What happens if you reach the end level?

Does Judas just congratulate you for being a truly wicked person?

I mean you must be really bad to get all the way to the end of hell.

>>81866409
My premise is correct.
Your premise is based on the assumption that normal people cannot experience mental illness, because mental illness is a quality of personal character rather than a disease that can occur in anyone. Therefore since normal people cannot be mentally ill their suicides cannot be influenced by a state of mental illness.
Which is wrong.

>>81865889

>>call depressed and suicidal people "entitled" for wanting to die

No I didn't. Can you read?

I specifically said they themselves feel that they AREN'T entitled to live, which is a huge generalisation but still most often the case. People try to kill themselves because of a complete lack of self-worth, a warped perspective of the value they can offer by being alive.

However, even completely disregarding any potential concerns in the afterlife, it is still morally repugnant to argue that they have the right to selfishly abandon all those who love them or would love them, those who depend on their presence, and who draw value from their company.

Suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness, but it isn't born from a sense of entitlement.

>>81866636
Hell is just a prison where lucifer is the top prisoner who makes everyone his bitch. Everyone suffers. People are probably too fucking frozen to even scream in the lowest level.

>>81866595
Orthodoxfag detected.

>>81866636
Judas is too busy being chewed like a piece of bubble gum to do much congratulating.

>>81866639
Holy shit that reasoning is retarded. Look, you don't seem to understand:

It is a hand wave to say that ALL people who have suicidal thoughts MUST THEN BE suffering from a mental illness. That isn't how the world works as completely stable individuals can consider suicide in some degree or capacity and it isn't intellectually responsible to clump every level of suicidal together and call them all mentally ill.

How are you having trouble with this?

you think (((they))) would allow this without many changes to dilute the message?

>>81866090
>Where do souls come from? We were about 300 millions 200 years ago, now we're almost 8 billions. Seriously, is there a souls factory somewhere? And what about those kids born in, say, Africa that die of starvation before they turn 5, are the souls of those kids so eager to come into the world that they choose to live horribly and die in pain just a few months later? Is everything just a chance, like, every souls in this queue gets to live a random life, or is everything carefully planned?

Literally all questions that have occupied philosophers for thousands of years. Maybe less time has been devoted to the phenomenon of population increase, but the rest is all extremely old stuff.

>If so, there is no free will, no real choice.

If free will exists, there is no end to your ability to exercise free will while alive, but there is no way to establish with certainty whether it does exist, and there is no way to know if it extends beyond the bounds of terrestrial existence.

>>81866651
>suicide is the ultimate act of selfishness
Of fuck off with your shaming faggotry.

>>81865435
I've seen it well done in some documentaries.
https://youtu.be/3fh04bxcsgU?t=5m31s

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>>81866651
>pretends he hasn't called suicidals entitled
>spends an entire post calling them selfish people
You are just a scummy person.

>>81866733
>That isn't how the world works as completely stable individuals can consider suicide in some degree or capacity
If they're completely stable why are they considering the most unstable act a human can perform?

>>81866651
>However, even completely disregarding any potential concerns in the afterlife
There isn't one.

Suicide has traditionally been considered a mortal sin, however, we must remember that for a sin to be mortal and cost someone salvation, the objective action must be grave or serious matter; the person must have an informed intellect and must give full consent of the will. In the case of suicide, a person may not have given full consent of the will. Recent studies which have paid attention to the social and personal circumstances surrounding suicides show that they are not often voluntary acts and so, while they may be mistaken and morally wrong, they are not always blameworthy. Fear, force, ignorance, habit, passion, and psychological problems can impede the exercise of the will so that a person may not be fully responsible or even responsible at all for an action. Thus, while acts of suicide are objectively immoral, the degree of culpability for suicide depends upon the state of mind in which the act is done. In this connection, the Catechism states, “Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide”. This qualification does not make suicide a right action in any circumstance; however, it does make us realize that the person may not be totally culpable for the action because of various circumstances or personal conditions.
While the Church holds that death by suicide is a grave sin, it nonetheless prays for those who have committed it, knowing that Christ will judge the deceased fairly and justly. It is the belief of the Church that only God can read the depths of our soul. Only He knows how much we love Him and how responsible we are for our actions. The Church’s view is that we should leave the judgment of those who commit suicide to God. The Church still teaches that there is a hell, understood as a definitive separation from the love of God, but leaves it to God to decide who should go there.

>>81866819
Why the fuck do you care about defending the honor of suicides?
They're dead.
They don't care about their honor, not now, and certainly not when they killed themselves or they wouldn't have done it.

>>81866186

>If you think you can hand wave that everyone who is suicidal is mentally ill, then yes.

Everyone thinks about killing themselves from time to time. To actually attempt it indicates what is generally considered "serious mental illness", although at no point so far have I mentioned mental illness at all so I think you might have me confused with a different anon.

>The point is that some people who suffer from manic depression feel at the whim of everyone else, that their own life is the only thing they can decide on.

This is not a feeling that is unique to people with manic depression, in fact it's not by any means a feeling that is unique to the mentally ill.

>Have you ever known or had a human conversation with someone suffering?

Yes, I have also suffered. You have a very childish attitude for someone who accuses others of being juvenile and simplistic.

Obviously someone you know attempted or committed suicide, and I'm very sorry for them, but you're not the only person who's been close to suicide in their lives and that closeness doesn't change the fact that suicide is a selfish act carried out by those who feel worthless and unloved.

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>>81865435
What Dreams May Come

>>81866516

Please point out where I said I'm a Christian.

>>81866853
Because just considering suicide does not automatically make you mentally ill. You keep assuming this. We are operating on things you are assuming.

>>81864118
middle ages were terrible so they couldn't have everybody offing themselves. Made up a rule that it was a sin.

>>81866931
somebody has no fucking clue what he is talking about lolol

>>81866919
I care how you are painting people who suffer. How your opinion of the depressed is horribly judgmental.

>>81866968
I'll stop "assuming" it when you give me a good reason to.

>>81866964
Moralfag then.

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>>81862586
Barlowe's Inferno would make a much better movie

look it up

>>81867032
Oh idk, because not having empathy for suffering makes you a sociopath?

>>81867008
>How your opinion of the depressed is horribly judgmental.
I judge only because I feel qualified to do so, having an intimate and personal knowledge of the subject.

I am cruel, because life is cruelty.

>>81867081
You sound like a psycho

>>81866770

You can't shame someone for being dead.

>>81866819

Entitled and selfish are different words, with different meanings. Not just that, but people who perform a single selfish act are not necessarily selfish people.

What you're doing is called "virtue signalling", and "deluding yourself". There is no point pussy-footing around the topic of suicide, least of all anonymously on the internet for fuck's sake.

>>81866886

That's your opinion, held without any evidence.

>>81867105
I stopped reading after the "you are virtue signalling" meme. Fuck off.

>>81867100
Now who is being horribly judgemental to mentally ill?
We are not your personal virtue signal anon. We are people.

>>81867002

I'm sorry if I touched a nerve but there's no value in acting smug about being wrong.

>>81867105
>That's your opinion, held without any evidence.
Anon, an afterlife has never been proven to exist, so it doesn't until you can prove it. I don't have to prove a negative, kiddo. So no, an afterlife doesn't exist. You or some other faggot has to prove it.

Ball has always been in your court to prove it, not in mine to disprove.

>>81867135

>read an anonymous post about suicide
>misread said post and conclude that the poster is insulting suicidal people
>rain down a litany of insults on that poster to make it clear you are a staunch ally of suicidal people everywhere
>get offended when you are called out for virtue signalling

Get a hold of yourself.

>>81867184
Right, when in doubt just call it all virtue signalling and stroll away like a dumb faggot. Can't lose an argument if you decide the rules regarding when to dismiss it, amirite?

>>81867070
Empathy does not mean what you think it means.
The best torturers have a strong sense of empathy, that's how they know how to torture people effectively.

>>81862586
Wait, flattery is worse than murder?

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>this whole thread

>>81867239
I don't think you know what virtue signalling is. An opinion you disagree with isn't just virtue signalling

>>81867205

You have made a strong claim that no afterlife exists, I have made no claim at all.

It's up to you to prove your own claims, anon, and you don't do that by pretending that I made one first.

>>81862586
>Flattering someone is worse than murdering him
This is completely retarded.

>>81867250
Please tell me what you think empathy is >torturers have a lot of empathy
Holy shit...

>>81867242
You just condemned a person for judging the mentally ill by using a mental illness in a judgemental fashion, you dumb faggot.

This isn't about your genuine concern for the mentally ill, this is about you getting up on an anonymous soapbox and teling the internet how much of a good person you one because you "care".

>>81867289
Anon, nobody has proven...ever...that an afterlife exists. So it doesn't. Saying an "afterlife doesn't exist" is accurate to the fact that not a single fucking person has.

Things don't just "maybe" exist without evidence. You also don't prove negatives.

>>81867305
Flattery in a catholic context is telling someone a sin they've committed is ok, basically encouraging someone to sin. Usually called adulation.

>>81867326
>I can hand wave your argument no matter what as I long as I call it virtue signalling
Pretty convenient, kiddo. That you get to decide who is virtue signalling or not

>>81862586
No, it's too rich and too Catholic for normies to understand.

>>81867314
Empathy is the ability to understand the point of view of another person, to put yourself in their shoes, to appreciate their pain and emotional state.

Good luck torturing someone when you can't figure out if you're hurting them or not, because you're too damn autistic to figure out what they're feeling.

>>81867326
>and teling the internet how much of a good person you one because you "care".
Not a single person has said that, stop fucking projecting just because you dont like the arguments you disagree with.

>>81867385
>repeating the same nonsense over again
sad

>>81867284

You never offered an opinion, other than that I am "a scummy person". Your only intention was to make a conspicuous show of defending suicidal people against what you perceived as my dismissal of their struggle with suicidal thoughts.

Perhaps if you made a post that wasn't just a deliberately misinterpreted summary of mine followed by a string of ad hominem, we could have a discussion and you could stop pretending to occupy a nonexistent moral high ground.

For example, you could start by explaining to me why you think that committing suicide ISN'T a selfish act?

>>81867403
>you need empathy
>to cause suffering to someone
Please stop posting, the act of torture itself requires an emotional disconnect.

>>81867435
>thread full of faggots insulting people because they're not being "sensitive" to the mentally ill
Whatever fag.

>>81867468
>if I ignore your opinion
>it doesn't exist
Right, I'm done here

>>81867468
Anon, you keep just assuming everything being said is a virtue signal. You aren't interested in a discussion.

>>81867471
How exactly do you cause emotional pain to someone if you are disconnected from the emotions they are experiencing?

>>81867391
Also the Inferno is the plebbest part. As evidenced by this thread there is no way normies could get Purgatorio and Paradiso without having them explained line by line.

>>81867518
>defensive virtue signalling intensifies

I would love it as a popcorn action movie with tons of practical effects meet cgi.

Man steals power from heaven when he realizes his pure wife isn't there with him, and battles down through the hells with ridiculous fights that suck all nuance out of storytelling in favor of large setpieces.

And it ends when he finds out that Satan sent Judas back up to earth, reincarnated as his wife, who tricked him into bringing the power of heaven down.

It ends with him watching as the devil starts to rise, he's doomed all of existence to eternal darkness. Oops.

>>81867529
Because you causing them pain isnt contingent on understanding, intimately, their own experiences. Everyone has a basic understanding of pain though. Not a single psychologist on this earth would agree with your sumv armchair aspie shit of "you need empathy ro torture". That is not how torture literally works.

>>81867545
Sad but true. I was able to muddle my way through Inferno, but not Purgatorio and Paradiso.

>>81867550
There you go again.

>>81867585
>Because you causing them pain isnt contingent on understanding, intimately, their own experience
Holy shit, clearly you've never been manipulated by a sociopath.

>>81867529
>being this much of a retard who thinks empathy is required for torture
This is bait, right? You got me.

>>81866491
You dum dum

>>81867342

>Anon, nobody has proven...ever...that an afterlife exists. So it doesn't.

That's not logically valid reasoning. The fact that something has never been proven to be true does not make it untrue - if that were the case, no premises would ever have been proven since they would have been automatically rendered untrue before there was any point in testing them.

>Saying an "afterlife doesn't exist" is accurate

You literally cannot know that without having died.

>Things don't just "maybe" exist without evidence.

Yes they do.

>You also don't prove negatives.

It is absolutely possible to provide proof for a negative claim, and while it's by no means necessary, the failure to do so does represent a weakness of that argumentative position, much like the failure to provide proof for a positive claim.

They already made Clerks

>>81867613
Ronald Reagan stop posting ur dead.

>>81867620
I don't think you even know what sociopathy is. Anon, it is literally wrong to say that you need empathy to torture people.

>>81862719
10/10 would watch

>>81867494

You haven't offered an opinion, and you know you haven't.

>>81867518

I am perfectly interested in a discussion, and have been engaged in discussion with a variety of other anons, all of whom made valuable posts without just listing off insults.

>>81867636
>It is absolutely possible to provide proof for a negative claim
Alright so I'm dealing with a complete fucking imbecile. Here is your last (you), buddy.

>>81862586
Well I guess while everyone else acts like a snarky asshole who just found out what Atheism is...man Summer starts sooner and sooner on here huh? I'll be the first to provide what I would like to see. I personally would dig something along the lines of Stanley Kubrick, David Cronenberg, and Clive Barker mixed. Just something that would be equal parts god damn horrific to look at but you can't look away.

>>81866611
so tv would love it, they love balls and cocks round here.

>>81867682

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_impossibility
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_absence

Think for yourself, don't just parrot whatever strikes you as smartest. Proving negative claims can be extremely important when you actually apply logic.

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>>81863266
>tfw watching +100 year old kino while shitposting on /tv/ at 1am

>>81867636
>>81867682
Yeah mate, you can't prove a negative claim. You can only disprove an assertion.

Scientific method is about making assertions and testing, then retesting, which ones work. That can never absolutely prove a negative any more than it can absolutely prove a positive.

>THIS SUMMER
>IS ABOUT TO GET HOTTER

>>81867651
>As the psychologist Paul Gilbert points out, empathy in this sense doesn’t necessarily imply "goodness." According to Gilbert, empathy is what makes torture possible. Without empathy, a torturer would have no concept of the suffering he is causing. Because he can “put himself in another person’s shoes” he knows that he is causing pain.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/out-the-darkness/201509/understanding-empathy

>>81867768
>Proving negative claims can be extremely important when you actually apply logic.
Nothing you linked supports that you should or even can, prove a negative.

>>81867768
>Think for yourself
Immensely frustrating irony here.

>>81867803

See >>81867768

We aren't talking about the scientific method here, we're talking about metaphysics and logic.

A fundamental concept to understand about claims regarding the afterlife is that the afterlife is BY DEFINITION intangible within the empirical, physical, mortal universe with which the physical sciences are concerned. The scientific method is, by and large, not applicable to questions of metaphysics.

Mathematics and logic are not bound by the same restrictions as chemistry and physics, and the philosophical burden of proof is very different from the scientific one.

If you want to make a strong claim that the afterlife or God do not exist, then I am well within reason to request your proof, just like I would request it of the opposite claim.

>>81867878
This is correct. A negative proof is only true until a solution is found.

"Proof of impossibility" is not a definitive.

>>81867946
>we're talking about metaphysics
Fucking christ you are an aspie if you think metaphysics is anything but a meme.

>>81867946
I agree that the scientific method does not apply. The assertion I argued against implied it could be "proven false" due to lack of empirical evidence.

And this guy then links to wiki articles regarding certain unsolved mathematical equation, their negative proofs, and uses that as their reasoning of why there is no afterlife.

>>81867878

You didn't read the links, not even the first few words of either. If you make a claim that something does not exist or cannot exist, the you may well be able to provide a logical proof as to why your claim is true.

If you fail to provide such a proof, then your argument is all the weaker for lacking it.

>>81867979
you are talking about the afterlife, what is that if not metaphysics

>>81868016
I think you overall, just have poor grasp of these things.

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>>81863800
>>81863800

I unironicly look forward to gods not dead because i find them good fun to watch with the missus.

Shame i cant have anymore Hurcules cameos though

>>81868016
There is no proof for or against an afterlife that is verifiable. So your point is you are capable of being pedantic?

>>81868031
Something you can't prove exists, ever

>>81868066
We couldn't prove a lot of things throughout history, until we could.

Does that mean there is an afterlife? No. But making declarations of absolute possibility given current understanding is a great way to look like a retard.

>>81868066
Yeah, that's why it's metaphysics

Above physics

By definition it couldn't be scientifically proved

>>81863404
I keked but you're still a dirty kike

>>81867913
>>81867979

Not arguments.

>>81868009

"This guy" is the same guy, me, and as I already said, demanding empirical evidence for something that, by definition, doesn't exist within the empirical universe is nonsensical.

An unsolved metaphysical question is a lot closer to an unsolved mathematical equation than an untested physical hypothesis, precisely because both metaphysics and mathematics use the same notation and logical precepts to provide proofs, whereas physical sciences use measured data.

I am not claiming that the afterlife exists, nor that it doesn't, simply correcting the horrifyingly common misconception that either side of that argument somehow doesn't bear the burden of proof for their claim.

>>81868124
Then why bring up metaphysics as if it helps your argument?
>you cant disprove my fantastical fictions that are outside of physics and reality so checkmate

>>81868061

Philosophy is the ultimate expression of pedantry, yes. If you want verifiable proofs, stick to physical sciences and don't run your mouth about things you don't fully understand.

>>81868041

I disagree, but you're entitled to your own opinion.

>>81868110
Yes... I look like a retard because I say something doesn't exist due to no evidence that, in the totality of human existence, over a hundred thousand years, has never been found.

>>81868228
*hundreds of thousands

>>81868188
Yeah I'm not really arguing anything here. You got into a series of arguments on the afterlife then balked at the idea of metaphysics as if it was new separate idea. I was pointing out that any concept of afterlife is metaphysics

>>81868153
>An unsolved metaphysical question is a lot closer to an unsolved mathematical equation than an untested physical hypothesis
Holy shit, our species is doomed

>>81868228

No, you look like you're jumping to conclusions based on an incomplete understanding of the question at hand.

You look like a retard because you incorrectly used a double negative.

>>81868281
And metaphysics is bullshit.

>>81868316
>You look like a retard because you incorrectly used a double negative.
This never happened, bud.

>>81868316
*ever been found

There, faggot. Take your mini victory.

>>81868321
I mean, if your definition of bullshit is "anything not scientifically verifiable". Then of course by definition it is so

>>81868316
How many thousands of more years have to pass for you to realize that an afterlife doesn't exist? Not a shred of evidence, literally ever. Not one. Ever.

>>81862586
Expect in one of next Superman movie.

>>81868384
It is complete bullshit and should just be discarded.

>>81868417
What evidence would be acceptable to you?

>>81868285

Not an argument.

Metaphysics and mathematics are branches of logic, and proofs are provided using logical notation. There is no requirement for experiments to be performed and repeated or data measured, nor is there generally any room from probability when arriving at the solution, although some spheres of mathematics obviously revolve around probability and have appropriate ways of dealing with it.

If someone were to provide a logical proof that the afterlife does or doesn't exist, it would look like a mathematical equation to the layman, and it would be just as unequivocal as one.

Until that day, agnostics are always going to be the only people who have a logically supported position on the matter.

>>81868458
Anything substantial and testible.

>>81868384
Why would you put any stock into anything you can't verify scientifically?

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>>81868461
>Metaphysics and mathematics are branches of logic
Wew lad.

>>81868374

No, it was too cheap but I'll still take it

>>81868417

However many thousands of years before I die and find out for myself. So I'd say 1/10 of a single thousand years, at the absolute outside.

>>81868494
It's hard to go through life without doing so, we do it all the time

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>>81863470
>she will never squeeze you with her giant rack to show you HELL
Why even die?

>>81868537
No, we don't though...

>>81868461
>t. metaphysics brainlet

>>81868554
K

>>81868519

In metaphysics, logic is applied to questions that cannot be resolved empirically.

In mathematics, logic is applied to questions that (theoretically) can.

This is philosophy 101.

>>81868580
>metaphysics
>logic
Pick one, only one.

>>81868570

>stefanmolyneux.jpeg

>>81868607
Stefan is a fucking tard.

>>81868597

You know you're wrong, why are you pretending you aren't?

Are you really that scared of unsolvable questions?

>>81868630

I don't disagree, but his name has become shorthand for the lack of an argument.

>>81868656
>y-you wrong!
>metaphysics uses logic!

>>81868656
You metaphysics fags are the worst. You need to exist in your own universe.

>>81868689

Logic is literally the key component of metaphysics, which I can only assume is the reason it is so difficult for you to come to terms with its existence.

>>81865130
kys

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>>81868749

>Satan

he appears for about two pages
and doesn't even say anything, he's just stuck frozen and being menacing and scaring the shit out of Dante

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>>81868757
>Logic is literally the key component of metaphysics
If that were honestly true, there would be no more metaphysics "studies"

>>81862646
patrician detected

>>81868580
>In mathematics, logic is applied to questions that (theoretically) can.
Are people this dumb?

>>81868841

You don't perform "studies" in metaphysics. As a philosophical branch it is defined by the fact empirical resolutions cannot be supplied for metaphysical questions, surveys and experiments would be useless.

>>81868920
So metaphysics is completely useless? Got it.

>>81868905

Feel free to provide a reason for your disagreement. As far as anyone can so far tell, the usefulness of mathematics is limited entirely to the physical universe.

>>81868580
>In mathematics, logic is applied to questions that (theoretically) can

>Theoretical mathematics
>empirical
fucking what

those two things are literal opposites

>>81868961
Right, because a metaphysical fantasy realm doesn't exist.

>>81868961
You do realize a theoretical model is not empirical because it is theoretical, right?

You know what empirical means, right?

>>81868958

Sure, unless you want to work out whether or not God or the afterlife exist.

So, you're presented with the choice of either talking about that subject from a place of base ignorance and coming off like a thicko when you talk about it, or learning a bit of basic metaphysics.

Of course, you could always refrain from giving your ignorant opinion when the topic comes up, but we both know you're incapable of that particular feat.

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>>81868961
>This field deals with things outside the physical world, you know, that very well defined "other" universe. It's logical anon, it's like math.

>>81868961
>As far as anyone can so far tell, the usefulness of mathematics is limited entirely to the physical universe

Ya those 12 dimensional models are definitely rooted in the physical universe, you're right.

>>81869034
Buddy, if you need to invent your own physics to justify that something literally outside of reality exists, beyond the ability to study or observe in our entire physical world, you aren't being intellectually honest, you are trying to play by your own rules.

The simpler answer, is that these things just don't fucking exist. But for some reason, this rustles your jimmies.

>theoretical
>empirical

this one of them there fancy old oxymorons i done heard about

>>81869034
OR THEY JUST DON'T EXIST

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>>81869034
>learn a bit about a made up pseudo-science that is laughed at by the entire modern scientific world
>no, no, no you don't understand. Metaphysics is for things outside of this universe, without any evidence. Yoh need to understand that I need to refit the game board for my rules to work
Again, metaphysics fags are the worst

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>>81862586
Director: Sam Raimi

Dante: Tobey Maguire

Virgil: J. K. Simmons

Satan: No one, you fuck. Satan doesn't speak or act in the poem.

>>81868920
>>81869034
Not the guys you're talking to, but if you can't supply real solutions to metaphysical questions, then the questions themselves become completely redundant.
If you define your branch of philosophy explicitly in terms of it not existing, then it's a complete waste of time.

>unless you want to work out whether or not God or the afterlife exist.
You yourself said that their isn't any empirical resolutions to metaphysical questions.
Therefore, you can't be working out whether or not God or the afterlife exist. If you
could work it out, then the question would have an empirical resolution, and therefore wouldn't be considered within the branch of metaphysics by your own definition.
If it isn't metaphysical, then it is subject to the same empirical evidence as everything else.
If it is metaphysical, then it has no resolution, and thus can't be "worked out" like you claim, and is therefore a redundant question.

If you define metaphysics as not being empirically addressable then your entire branch of philosophy is on the wrong side of the burden of proof. That's all your metaphysics boils down to; a logical fallacy.

>>81869227
Why can't Satan be a character? It is an adaptation, it can have artistic license for a fucking visual narrative.

>>81869107
I cant tell how many layers of ironic shit posting I'm seeing anymore, I like to think people aren't this dumb but so many people have no grasp on philosophy

I always assumed suicide was considered a terrible sin so dirty peasants wouldnt just kill themselves to see the heavenly gates and leave their lives of starvation and poverty behind

>>81868981

>those two things are literal opposites

Not true at all, mathematics is entirely concerned with the empirical universe, and pure or theoretical mathematics is used to provide answers where data and instruments cannot. The only application of theoretical mathematics is within a universe whose rules must ultimately be confirmed empirically. It is literally the language humanity has developed to describe the underlying laws of the physical universe, and its uses are restricted to understanding the relationships of those laws.

Outside of the physical universe, there is no reason to assume that mathematics may be applied.

>>81869014

Yes. The phrase "empirical model" doesn't have the same meaning as the word "empirical", though, which explain the confusion here.

>>81869330
Tell me what is dumb about this
>Buddy, if you need to invent your own physics to justify that something literally outside of reality exists, beyond the ability to study or observe in our entire physical world, you aren't being intellectually honest, you are trying to play by your own rules.

>The simpler answer, is that these things just don't fucking exist. But for some reason, this rustles your jimmies.
You literally DO have to rewrite the entire game for your rules to work. I'm not the dumb one here. Metaphysics is laughably retarded and nobody takes you seriously

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>>81863236
The first 3 levels are absolute KINO.

Then it becomes so disappointingly repetitive you regret spending $60 on it, with the exception of the final fight.

However, it does nail the atmosphere of Hell perfectly and going deeper and deeper into the Circles are great.

Giant Naked Tongue-Nipples Cleopatra as the boss of Lust was my favorite.

>>81865527
In the Biblical sense of being unable to control your physical desires (sex, food, gold, etc.).

In essence, letting your animal instincts take over and feeding them instead of remaining steadfast and reasonable in your use of such things.

>>81869398
I'm not the guy you're trying to argue with, but everything you say is dumb because you don't even know what metaphysics is, and I can't even figure out what you think you're talking about. who's "inventing their own physics" here lol

also stop using the word literally

>>81869038

Logic is applicable within any universe, non-existent or not. It's a cognitive toolset, not a physical object.

>>81869070

They literally are. Just because they are difficult to picture doesn't mean they don't physically exist. The reason such models are created is because of observable inconsistencies in the behaviour of sub-atomic particles, and mathematics is used to understand the relationship between what can be tested with our instruments and what can't.

>>81869107

You can take that complaint back to the ancient Greeks, I'm just working with the systems they left us. If you want to start making claims about the existence of free will, or a divine power, or an afterlife, you've wandered into metaphysics, where logic applies but mathematics does not.

I didn't make it that way, but you're right it rustles my jimmies when people insist that a huge chunk of the Western canon is an "intellectually dishonest waste of time".

>>81869212

>be ignorant
>assume position of authority

History of science should be compulsory study before embarking on any STEM degree, your attitude is appalling and all too common.

>You yourself said that their isn't any empirical resolutions to metaphysical questions.
Therefore, you can't be working out whether or not God or the afterlife exist.

A logical proof is not an empirical solution. It is entirely possible to construct logical proofs for and against the existence of God, the afterlife, objective morality and a whole range of other metaphysical questions. Many people throughout history have provided such proofs, and their arguments as well as the arguments others made in response form a significant portion of the foundation of all human knowledge.

If that strikes you as a waste of time, that's your prerogative, but you can rest assured you didn't just "solve" the "logical fallacy" of metaphysics in the course of a ten-line 4chan post.

>>81869642
>you dumb teehee
Great argument
>who's "inventing their own physics" here lol
I want you to tell me what you think metaphysics is.

Also LITERALLY, LITERALLY, LITERALLY

kys you dumb fag

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>>81869642
>you don't know what metaphysics is
>who's "inventing their own physics" here lol
Oh boy.

>>81863419
It is a story that both religious AND not so religious people have adored for generations.

Let me guess, you also think stories about Hercules trials or the plagues of ancient Egypt are pathetic as well, simply because they allude to God-like figures?

Come on, now, that is just childish.

>>81869659
>you've wandered into metaphysics, where logic applies but mathematics does not.
Yes again, you are trying to refit the game board to talk about things that most likely
just don't exist, just to justify your autism. It's like needing to invent a school for studying werewolves just to avoid the fact that they aren't real.
>I didn't make it that way, but you're right it rustles my jimmies when people insist that a huge chunk of the Western canon is an "intellectually dishonest waste of time".
It is a waste of time if it is proven wrong or outdated. Do you bloodlet or worry about the world being flat, anon?

Metaphysics is a dumb joke foe pseudos to feel smart.

>>81869866
>>81869839
no pls dont troll me unless you guys are for real.

in that case you highschool kids must really be "above average intelligence" like you always considered yourselves to be. if you're going to college take a philosophy course

>>81862586
>Dante


Nick Cage


>Virgil

De Niro


>Beatrix

Eliza Fanning

>>81869965
Anyone is automatically below average intelligence if they take metaphysics seriously

>>81869659
>morality
>is a metaphysical question
>REEE I HATE STEM!
>TAKE MY PSEUDO SCIENCE SERIOUSLY
the worst

>>81869938
>ignorance is a dumb joke foe pseudos to feel smart.

ftfy. im out. but thanks for educating us all on your interpretation of a word you learned on 4chan today

>>81870051
Do you honestly feel that metaphysics is a credible science? You realize that most of the scientific world disagrees, right?

>>81869938

>you are trying to refit the game board to talk about things that most likely just don't exist

No, I'm describing the branch of philosophy that deals with things which specifically do not physically exist but whose existence or non-existence are vital to particular views of the universe, most often with respect to moral codes and traditions.

>Do you bloodlet or worry about the world being flat, anon?

Are you interested in knowing why we don't bloodlet or think that the world is flat? If so, then it's important to study the history of and reasoning behind those beliefs. If not, or if you think that's a waste of time, then you have no reason to give opinions on the matter because you don't actually know what you're talking about and you don't want to know.

Are you interested in knowing why people believe in the existence of divine powers or the afterlife? If so, then it's important to study the history of and reasoning behind those beliefs. If not, or if you think that's a waste of time, then you have no reason to give opinions on the matter because you don't actually know what you're talking about and you don't want to know.

I like talking about such things, and I don't like having baseless opinions or putting forward unoriginal ideas that have already been thoroughly dissected, so I consider it important to understand as much as I can about what other people have already said on the matter.

>Metaphysics is a dumb joke foe pseudos to feel smart.

Palpable irony.

>>81870024

The question of whether or not morality is subjective or objective invariably becomes a metaphysical one.

I love STEM. Philosophy is not a science, nor did I ever claim that it was.

>>81870193
>you are dumb because you misspelled "for"

>>81870076

You realise that 100% of the scientific world and the philosophical world agree that metaphysics is not a science nor has anyone insisted that it was, and that your confusion on the matter is only due to the similarity between the words "metaphysics" and "physics", right?

>>81867494
>>81867518
Atheists: 0
Christians: 2

>>81870241

You also misspelled "pseud", have clearly never used the word correctly, and your sentence is either missing a verb or just horribly constructed. Basically, it was a pretty dumb post all round.

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>>81869240
>empiricism is the only way to learn things
Read a book.

>>81870358
The word was pseudo.

>>81870266
metaphysics is shit no matter what it is.

>>81870436

Maybe if this was 1917. Don't give me that bullshit.

>>81870266
Anon, some metaphysics fags do indeed try to pretend it is a viable science.

>>81869335
You're retarded. Mathematic proofs aren't empirical.

>>81870474

Not really, but you're entitled to your opinion.

>>81870492
Have you never heard the term pseudoscience?

>>81870516
It isn't because you believe in it. You just aren't terribly smart.

>>81870505
Not that guy, but name one philosopher who does metaphysics that claims metaphysics is science.

>>81870505

Anyone who claims that metaphysics is a science doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about and should not be taken seriously.

>>81870514

I never said they were. They are logical proofs pertaining to the empirical universe - that is, the universe which tangibly exists and that we physically occupy.

Broadly speaking, and taking into account the fact that there are innumerable conflicting "official definitions":

Mathematics is the branch of logic that specifically deals with measuring things that demonstrably exist within space and time.

Metaphysics is the branch of logic that specifically deals with understanding things that do not demonstrably exist within space and time.

>>81870526

So you meant to say, "Metaphysics is a dumb joke for pseudosciences to feel smart"?

And you don't find anything ironic about that sentence at all?

>>81870720
>metaphysics is a branch of logic
Please just stop posting

>>81870555

Cool post, thanks for contributing.

>>81870751
Calling someone a "pseudo" is a slang term, newfag.

>>81865747

Hi Martin!

>>81870770

Sorry, I'll correct myself:

Mathematics is an application of logic that specifically deals with measuring things that demonstrably exist within space and time.

Metaphysics is an application of logic that specifically deals with understanding things that do not demonstrably exist within space and time.

Happy, Captain Pedantic?

>>81870787
But I'm right. You just have a bias. Most of the world laughs at metaphysics. Even other philosophers. It's brainlet-tier shit.

>>81866941

Underrated film. Gets silly and sappy in parts, but visually pretty intense and quality MvS cameo.