Only the Sith and the Jedi deal in absolutes

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I really hate that gray jedi are becoming a real thing.

best part is that only the Jedi deal in absolutes

>>81846816

What's wrong with gray Jedi? The black-and-white morality of Star Wars is boring as shit.

>>81847569
Being a Grey Jedi isn't about complex morality, that would be too intense for normies. This Grey BS is just a way to give Rey a new superpower.

>>81847569
>Black-and-white morality
Isn't that the whole point of Star Wars though?

Good guys good bad guys bad, George Lucas isn't a gifted writer he just wrote for the largest audience possible.

Practically children's story tier, why do you think Disney bought that shit up?

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>>81847671
>new superpower.
Superpower only a woman could obtain amirite?

>>81846736
This is incredibly moronic, aren't the sith and the empire literally space nazis? What middle ground are they looking for?

>>81847727
well, it wouldnt be the first time
>Leia and Padme have the super powers of diplomacy
>Bastila Shan is the only one to master Battle Meditation (as of Kotor 1 at least)
>Ahsoka has the power of snippyness
>Mon Mothma has the power of planing an attack

>>81847812
I fucking hate normies

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>>81846736
>one side is literally portrayed as the embodiment of evil

Truly the middle ground is the most enlightened

>>81847727
Can you please not derail the thread?

Let's concentrate on the stupidity of a "grey" jedi in a universe where the bad guys are literally space nazis.

>>81847903
>one side is literally portrayed as the embodiment of evil
this is my biggest problem with the movies
the Empire is Always babyeating Nazi deathcamp commendants
fuck
The Jedi are FAR from "lawful good"
give me the old republic where everyone is just humans (or what ever) that are actually guided by their own moralities

My biggest problem with the Gray Jedi is that the Jedi were already like that. They aren't saints and they cared about the balance.

>>81847975
>this is my biggest problem with the movies

That's not a problem cos it was never anything other than that except in the last 2 movies.

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>jedi around forever and ever
>survived through all kinds of shit
>it's luke's turn
>"It's time for the Jedi to end."

How could one man fuck up so much? Him, Yoda and Dindu really ruined everything.

>>81847937
>bad guys
>nazi

>>81847569
>>81847683

No, grey morality is boring as shit

Good and evil morality is GOAT tier, it's why tolkien is the best writer and George R Martin is a hack

>>81846736
I just want a movie that expands on the lore of jedi and sith, I don't care about the chosen one or any of that shit, I want shit like that level from Korriban in KOTOR but from both sides

>>81847569
There is no "Black and white". The "light-side" was never even a real concept. It's something people deluded themselves into thinking it's real because of morality systems in video-games.

Back in the Original trilogy, before all of the shitty EU stuff, falling to the "Dark Side" just meant using the force to do evil shit, and even them, all you had to do was repent and stop doing it. The point was that the catharsis and power that being evil gave you was too tempting.

I'm still pissed off at how the prequels turned the force into some kind of dogmatic religion when Yoda himself just compares it to a force of nature that you must become one with.

/tv/ - Alt Right Pussy Gray Jedi

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>>81846816
They're not though. The Clone Wars, Rebels, and the new trilogy feature non-Jedi and non-Sith characters, but that doesn't make them "Grey." Ahsoka still sides with the Light, Maul still sides with the Dark, the Nightsisters and Knights of Ren are clearly Darksiders.

The closest thing we have to "grey" is the Bendu, and he would refuse to call himself Jedi. He is the Bendu. He is the one in the middle.

>>81847569
>Waaah, I want my antiheroes!

>>81846736
Saying this, in itself, is an absolute...

>>81848210
It's really the Jedi during the Clone Wars that fucked up everything

The name of the Jedi has been tarnished for good. You can still be a light side force user and not be a Jedi

>>81846736

>According to Gershom Scholem, another authority on Sabbateanism, Kraushar had described Frank's sayings as "grotesque, comical and incomprehensible". In his classic essay "Redemption Through Sin", Scholem argued a different position, seeing Frankism as a later and more radical outgrowth of Sabbateanism.[9] In contrast, Jay Michaelson argues that Frankism was "an original theology that was innovative, if sinister" and was in many respects a departure from the earlier formulations of Sabbateanism. In traditional Sabbatean doctrine, Zevi and often his followers claimed to be able to liberate the sparks of holiness hidden within what seemed to be evil. According to Michaelson, Frank's theology asserted that the attempt to liberate the sparks of holiness was the problem, not the solution. Rather, Frank claimed that the mixing between holy and unholy was virtuous.[6] Netanel Lederberg claims that Frank had a Gnostic philosophy wherein there was a "true God" whose existence was hidden by a "false God". This "true God" could allegedly only be revealed through a total destruction of the social and religious structures created by the "false God", thus leading to a thorough antinomianism. For Frank, the very distinction between good and evil is a product of a world governed by the "false God".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sHQlBj6U0M

>>81846736
lol Assassins Creed in space. Nice job Ubisoft

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhhACgJJkc4

JJ Abrams is such an asshole holy shit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UeYXI6Z-Zg

>Humanity

Dark Rey fucking confirmed

>>81847865
>>81847727
well Rey's can't be vagoo
she has scary monster parts

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>>81847865
>super powers of diplomacy
>never diplome anything

>>81848210
What did you expect from the guy whos biggest achivement was to get zapped for so long until a child slaughterer took pity in him

>>81848360
>shitty EU stuff

nice try, lucas. the OT kiddy films don't even come close KOTOR when it comes to the quality of writing. get over it.

>>81848653
THIS!

desu senpai

>>81848027

I dont think gray jedi is even supposed to be some center politic shit, it's supposed to be someone who rejects the ideologies of both sith and jedi and just uses the force in whatever way he chooses to use it.

Like the burn victim guy with the yellow lightsaber we see beating the shit out of kylo in the trailer.

>>81848210

> he hasnt figured out that luke is a bad guy

>>81848360

>I'm still pissed off at how the prequels turned the force into some kind of dogmatic religion when Yoda himself just compares it to a force of nature that you must become one with.

Did you consider that the jedi actually were a moralistic construct in the prequels because of their political standing, which was actually framed as a bad aspect of it, and yoda became more knowledgable and humble in his understanding of the force between the time we see him in the OT?

>>81850140

Its dark luke, if you can actually take a look at the poster for 5 seconds

daily reminder that "light side" is a part of nu-star wars. In OT and PT there was the Force and the Dark Side, none of this fanfiction shit.

>>81846816
Have you ever played KOTOR?
it's basically what would become of the new star wars

>>81852523
>Like the burn victim guy with the yellow lightsaber we see beating the shit out of kylo in the trailer.
Are you memeing me? I don't remember this part.

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>>81846736
Grey Jedi wield two light sabers to duel Sith and Jedi at the same time?

>>81848360
No that's how Yoda describes the force, not the beliefs of the jedi. Also, did you even watch A New Hope, where Motti says that Vader's beliefs were part of a "religion"? That religion happened to be leading the Empire who were engrossed in evil. If anything, it's only common sense to make the warrior monks on the opposite side practitioners of balance and restraint.

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>>81852817

this guy

Why are manchildren obsessed with injecting "mature" morality in franchises for kids? Is it because this way they can be less ashamed of liking something that is primary for children and teenagers? If you want moral ambiguity there are better suited thing to watch or read.

>>81846736
>The sith order were originally formed by dark jedi
>Dark jedi were rogue jedi, who stopped believing in pacifism and stoicism in favor of brutality and all that
>The dark side is a jedi cosntruct
>There should be religions that don't view the force in dualities
>Theoretically there should be a religion of hedonist who just party all day and reach illumination
>Religion of basement dwellers who complain on imageboard sites and rank up force points
The possibilities become endless if you think this way
>tfw there will never be an order who gain magical powers from playing Yu-Gi-Oh! all day >there will never be a star wars/ygo crossover

>>81850202
pillow pants?

>>81848299
But there is absolutely grey morality in Tolkien you retard.

Does taking the Ring to save Gondor make you a bad person, or a good person?

>>81852641
hell they put the council in a giant white tower even, how much more overt can they make it

>>81855247
The fuck are you on about?

>>81846736
>TFW the EU is being raided for parts by hack writers without the originality to come up with new ideas
>TFW they can't even follow their own bullshit conventions and give grey Jedi white lightsabers like Ashoka in Rebels and instead give them yellow blades despite establishing those as Temple Guard specific back in TCW.
>TFW no balls to do evil Rey and they're instead still going ahead with the dollar store Jacen versus Jaina rip-off that the EU did better

>>81846736
updoots

>>81846736
muh middle way
luke will die
star wars is for children

>>81846736

IT'S OVER, I HAVE THE MIDDLE-GROUND!

>>81858129
>grey Jedi white lightsabers like Ashoka in Rebels and instead give them yellow blades despite establishing those as Temple Guard specific back in TCW
Ahsoka isn't a very Jedi and these two aren't connected in any way

>>81858451
>very
Grey

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>>81847903
>$37.50 for a retard threesome

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>>81858568
Holy shit, you've unlocked dark gray Jedi.

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What makes a man turn neutral...?
Lust for gold?
Power?!
Or is a man born with a heart full of neutrality?

Can someone explain Wtf a gray Jedi is? I don't play starwars games

>>81860455
see>>81847903

why can't americans understand that there are usually more than two choices?

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>>81846736
Literally this

>>81860538
Amerifat here
>nuh uh Coke or Pepsi

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"First comes the day
Then comes the night.
After the darkness
Shines through the light.
The difference, they say,
Is only made right
By the resolving of gray
Through refined Jedi sight."
---Journal of the Whills

>>81857378
Book comes clearly on the side that Boromir was acting wrongly in trying to do that. Boromir immediately regretted it after the ring was our of his sight.

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>"Take the greatest Jedi Knight, strip away the Force, and what remains? They rely on it, depend on it, more than they know. Watch as one tries to hold a blaster, as they try to hold a lightsaber, and you will see nothing more than a woman – or a man. A child."

>"To believe in an ideal, is to be willing to betray it. It is something no Sith or Jedi has ever truly learned."

>"Oh, not to love is no crime, or so the Jedi believe. It is their code that kills life... their adherence to the will of the Force."

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Its clear the concept of Grey Jedi being portrayed in the new movies isn't that explored in previous EU content, as in some sort of middle-ground Jedi who uses both dark and light, its similar in a sense but not exactly.

Its obviously Jedi who follow no absolute philosophy in the sense that they don't project their own mind, their own beliefs, their own principles onto the force, but literally and truly are 'guided' by the force. They don't "use" the force, the force uses them as if a conscious entity and they are extensions of it. This is what Jedi are supposed to be but aren't. Jedi as they are, are full of shit and impose their own will onto the force same as the Sith, using it as a tool. This is what causes the imbalance in the force, not the Sith being all evil but both the Sith and Jedi being what they are, 'users' of the force, groups imposing their on will onto the force.

The movie was called "The Force Awakens" implying as if some conscious entity woke up and is about to throw some shit down. In this case, it seems it has chosen a true chosen one, a gRey jedi...names Rey through which it will act. People complain Rey is too good too quickly, which might be true if she was a regular Jedi who needed to be trained to "use" the force...but what if what she is supposed to be is a vessel for the force itself.

>>81861221
>chosen one trope
>the chosen one is a BLACKED woman
I think you're behind something.

>>81860915
Good shit. I miss that buggy game.

>>81860915
these are particularly retarded quotes mate, there's nothing interesting or meaningful about them
They are just edgy sentences that sound good (for mentally challenged people)

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"I see light.
I see darkness.
...and balance."

"It's so much bigger"

BIGGER!!!!

>>81861383
>.t brainlet
Doubly embarrassing if you haven't even played the game.

>>81847671
This. Rey is going to get force lightning some other stuff and become "the most powerful force user ever" because she uses both sides of the force and she might have to decide not to kill Kylo or Snoke or something.

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>>81861448
>BIGGER!!!!
and BLACKER

Why can't white men compete?

>>81848299
Not really. GOT (the books, not the awful TV series). Just because Tolkien is the father of fatnasy doesn't make him the best writer or LOTR the best book. A Song of Ice and Fire is literally superior to LOTR in almost every way.

>>81861451
>impressed by videotoys writing
>calls other brainlets

Disney has pretty much scoffed at the idea of grey jedi

If anything, by "balance" they're going for a KOTOR II-esque view of the Force where the light is embraced but the retarded autistic dogma of the Jedi is rejected in favor of following one's own convictions and idea of what's right.

>>81857378
The ring did not have the power to save gondor the ring brings ruin to everyone that isn't sauron. All it does is prey on the weak will of man, dwarf, elf, etc.

>>81861510
That "videotoy" does something with those glorified toycomercialkinos that elevates it beyond them, and thus doomed it to a rushed release and a hackish retcon by the powers that didn't understand it. And it all but seems The Last Jedi is aiming to copy it, though I doubt it will even scratch the surface of what KotoR II was attempting to do.

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>>81846736
It'd be cool if Disney tried something new instead of stealing. Here's a tip: make the Old Republic era canon (most of it) and make a trilogy on Revan instead of this pathetic rehash of the old movies that they are doing currently.

>>81854935
not in the trailer, fag. It's from some video game trailer for a gay MMO

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>>81861675
Bane?

>>81858440
kek

>>81861541
Don't the Sith think they are right?

>>81861675
Take a heavy breath, exhale and then think for a second about how Disney would make a trilogy of movies about Revan.

Care what you wish, Anon.

>>81861742
The Emperor seemed genuine in wanting to bring peace to the galaxy by literal force.

>>81861764
Good point.

>>81847569
Kreia was a cunt no matter what side you picked. That's what it means to be a grey jedi.

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>>81860915
>"Love doesn't lead to the dark side. Passion can lead to rage and fear, and can be controlled... but passion is not the same thing as love. Controlling your passions while being in love... that's what they should teach you to beware. But love itself will save you... not condemn you."

>"Look, everybody always figures the time they live in is the most epic, most important age to end all ages. But tyrants and heroes rise and fall, and historians sort out the pieces."

>"Malak is a tyrant who should be stopped. If he conquers the galaxy, we're in for a couple of rough centuries. Eventually it'll come around again, but I'd rather not wait that long. So we do what we have to do and we try to stop the Sith. But don't start thinking this war, your war, is more important than any other war just because you're in it."

> "Sometimes swirling Force is just swirling Force. It gets all us old Jedis excited at our age so we go ‘Oooo, destiny!’"

Jolee the real GOAT.

I love watching 4chan go from circlejerking over "grayness" to hating it now that it's going mainstream.

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>>81862095
What? You gain way more influence with Kreia by choosing DS options. When you play full LS she'll barely talk to you.

Darth Traya is a liar and a scammer.

>>81862261
>when she bitched at me because I helped a guy and "took away his fight" and thus didn't give a chance to grow

But he was going to die, what kind of growth was that going to be if he ended up dead?

>>81847671
>I just want rehashes off all the movies

Go watch the original movies then if you want nothing new.

>>81861774
Funny, because the Sith Code (which is canon) says that peace is a lie. He was probably baiting Anakin with another lie.

>>81862121
I appreciate Jolee, he's one of the best characters in the early game. But he's still just a goody two shoes Jedi in denial while Kreia is attempting to guide the Exile beyond good and evil in the hope that by his example the galaxy can be put on the path of the will to power instead of being ruled by a self destructive good/evil dichotomy needlessly bound to and ruled over by space magic. This is not the only thing she's after, mind, and her reasons and motives are all but flawless or free of hypocrisy, which makes Kreia such an enduring, three dimensional character.
But Jolee is a cool cat, I grant you that.

>>81861700
>Dwayne Johnson as Darth Bane

>>81862261
Not really. Defying her and thinking for yourself is actually what she wants. By not gaining influence with her, you're actually listening to what she is saying and paving the path she desires, even though she herself might not give the indication or even realize that at the time.

>>81861675
remember how Revan was really just a pawn of the True Sith Emperor and how you can loot his pants in SWTOR?

remember how Kreia was actually really just driven crazy by force crystals?

You think you want Old Republic shit but SWTOR went ahead and killed it for you with its awful story.

>>81862261
>After having been exiled by both the Jedi and Sith, she held an abhorrence of how both Orders were used by the Force to its own ends, and began to consider how she might rid the galaxy of its influence forever. Going under the guise of "Kreia" once more, Traya located a former Jedi General that served in the Mandalorian Wars, Meetra Surik, also known as the Jedi Exile. Traya saw Surik as having the potential to bring her purpose to fruition, and took it upon herself to "rescue" Surik and retrain her in her own views. Even as Traya orchestrated a Jedi purge, she continued in her attempts to mold Surik.

From the wiki, my man. Traya wasn't exactly a sith anymore because she got overthrown. She just wanted to destroy the force altogether. Not sure if that makes her grey, exactly..

Meetra Surik herself is a better example, especially if you play her that way. Pretty sure she's supposed to be grey in canon anyways. She disregards the Jedi council to go fight with Revan and Malak, but also resisted the dark side and the pull to join the Sith.

She wasn't really Jedi OR Sith. Just a powerful force user who went by her own moral code.

>>81862464
I'm fine with this only if he gets to wear the samurai armor

>>81862420
Kreia just wants to destroy the force altogether because she's butthurt about being kicked out of both the Jedi AND the Sith.

origins.
prequels.
sequels
another prequels? koroban?

>>81846816
>I have the middle ground

>>81862420
So not believing in good and evil is what's really good?

>>81862529
I ignore everything in SWTOR.

>>81862552
>She just wanted to destroy the force altogether
She didn't even think it possible. She had a love/hate relationship with it for obvious reasons. What she ultimately wants was the galaxy to not be ruled by it, so she attempted to weaken it and help enable a powerful figure beyond the Jedi/Sith dichotomy at the same time. Overall, I don't think she herself really knew what she wanted, she was wounded by her past experiences so she sought to lash out, but at the same time do something to bring such pain as hers to a stop. To the player, she might initially seem like this dark manipulator at least two steps ahead of everyone else, but at the (rushed) end of the game you learn that she's in awe of the Exile and actually his biggest fan girl because of what he represents: Someone who managed to reject the force instead of being dominated or hurt by it the way she was.

>>81846736
You know what we really need?

Force users who have embraced both light and dark and the chaos in between them, becoming Chaos Users.

Can be Chaotic Good or Chaotic Evil, or Chaotic Neutral, which are the most powerful ones.

>>81862529
>remember how Revan was really just a pawn of the True Sith Emperor
Is that true? Why should I be offended? He was a Mary Sue in KOTOR.

>>81862649
is the force a spook?

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>>81862649
No, it's about not being ruled over by imposed notions of good and evil in order to live the good life. Rejecting master and slave morality, paving your own path free of what history and society imposes on you, rejecting nihilism, having a genuine will to power. Kreia and the Exile are Nietzsche's mouthpieces in an extremely dualist universe.

>>81862906
>mary sue
>got defeated by Bastila and her team
>didn't see Malak betray him
>etc.

it's KOTOR 2 that turned him into that super smart 5d chess player that was preparing the galaxy for the REAL invasion

>>81862294
You either grow naturally or die and nurture stronger individuals. Jedi meddling and coddling turns people into insolent little shits full of misguided hope that good bearded dudes with lightsabers will eventually sort everything out. It also toys with your brain if you are young and impressionable, i.e. what happened to Anakin. Chances are, if he was only discovered after 18, as a fully-grown young adult, he'd be the greatest Jedi ever, not a dumb little Sith boy.

>>81863004
Nothing was set in stone in that game.
Rather, he was this legend that meant different things to different people, making all endings of the first canon and not canon.
Thought you are correct that it was a proposed plotline for kotor 3 at some point

>>81862971
Actually unironically this. Kreia wanted an Orderless world since neither Order was actually ready to use Force for anything but petty squabbles for their fully misguided ideals. Thus, Force ruled men, not the other way around.
I still can't believe how good KOTOR II actually was.