How did he lost to an untrained girl?

When in the film did he fight someone who was not trained with melee weapons?

>>81790341
Perhaps she has more training than we know about.

Why would a mary sue need training?

>>81790341
She's the Chosen One.

>>81790341
Probably wasn't the best idea to use a lightsaber with two smaller lightsabers sticking out in either direction, substantially limiting your range of motion. Especially when you're fighting a lady who likely grew up having to beat away giant rape monsters with sticks.

>>81790341
probably getting shot in the stomach and constantly punching his wound to pump himself up.
nigger was bleeding all over the snow. I think he also got hit with a saber when he was toying with Finn.

Also it would appear in Star Wars, that while someone does need training Force ability is genetic and its not equal people can be stronger or weaker in with the Force.

That being said, yes, from a good story telling standpoint Rey shouldn't have been great at everything she did with minimal effort. I get that they are trying to say she is the chosen one, but if Luke bested Vader in V it would have been a pretty bad choice.

>>81790341
Because he was emotionally and physically compromised. OP is a faggot.

>>81790496
I dunno, Maul got cut in half, fell into a bottomless pit, didn't got treatment, food or water in 12 years and he was ok to even kill council members

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How did he lost to a little boy who had never podraced?

>>81790553
1. I don't know any of the cartoon shit, or EU shit
2. I guess that means Maul was super strong with the force.
3. Killing Maul in ep 1 was dumb, bringing him back was something so bad not even Lucas could have dreamed it up.

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>>81790341
Working backwards:

Rey nicked him a couple times in the face arm and leg. Finn whacked him in the shoulder before disarming. Ben beat one opponent after spar-like battle. Ben pounded the wound on his side attempting to fuel darkness in him, failing in the end. Chewie blasted him with a bowcaster shown to send troopers flying.

>>81790608
Sebulba could not use the Force whereas Anakin was born of the Force, thus being able to utilize it unnaturally naturally for a child his age.

>>81790639
>fuel darkness in him
It's called adrenaline, dude. It's not magic.

>>81790341
He's a fucking WHITE MALE. its about time they lost to the oppressed

>>81790632
It's canon though

>>81790608
he didnt know how to boost

>>81790341
Ill give you the usual answer even though youre memeing.

Kylo is barely a Jedi. He had some training when he was a kid from Luke, but not a lot. Hes desparately trying to be like Vader and it pisses him off that he isnt. Hes also not fully on the dark side. He says himself he feels the light side constantly pulling on him. Hes in a state of limbo, which makes him weak and unsure. He acts like a spoiled child who never really had a reason to actually fight someone.

Rey is a street urchin essentially. Growing up alone, caring for herself. Shes street smart and learned how to fight out of necessity. Shes force sensitive and due to her upringing shes stronger. Also, we dont entirely know the whole deal with Rey. She could be a kenobi, or a skywalker. Two of the more powerful jedis.

Yes Kylo is the grandson of Vader, but he also had two non jedi parents, and like I said before, hes not fully commited to the dark side, despite desparately trying.

Plus he was shot by chewie.

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>>81790632
He wasn't bad when he was a raving mecha spider who'd been eating space rats in a space junk yard. Everything after was trash. And oh fuck me, Savage Opress is top edge.
That arc was trash.

>>81790744
>I made this part sound silly, the whole post is wrong!

He's a fucking white male.

Fact: Women are the most powerful race in the world

But Kylo IS the untrained girl.

HE HAD A GIANT FUCKING BURNING HOLE IN HIS TORSO

For christ's sake. If you took the best boxer in the world, shot him in the stomach, and then had him fight a normal guy, the normal guy would probably win. It has next to nothing to do with Rey's strength, the fact that Kylo Ren was still standing about an hour after being shot in the stomach was incredible.

>Episode VIII
>Rey and Kylo finally meet once again
>they draw their lightsabers
>Kylo: "My powers have doubled since last time, Rey."
>Rey: "Excellent, twice the pride, double the fall."

Pottery. JJ Abrams and his wife are creative geniuses. Usually in a narrative you have the protagonist as an underdog and the antagonist as the oppressive, overwhelming force that they must overcome. This is because an audience naturally is drawn to an underdog. Abrams instead has turned this archetype on its head by having the villain be the underdog and the protagonist be the overwhelming force that the villain must overcome. This subverts trite narrative structure by challenging the audience to root for Goliath over David in rooting for Rey over Kylo now. Few blockbuster movies dare to challenge an audience this way.

Imagine if your favourite sports movie were about an effortlessly dominant sports team trying to win the championship, and right at the very end they have to fight the league's underdog team in the grand finals, then they crush this underdog team. The writers will have set themselves up an extra task to make the audience love the powerhouse athletic team over the struggling team trying to make their way, and this is exactly the brave writing scenario JJ set-up. Now in Episode VIII the writers have to write Rey twice as well as they would have had she lost the fight to Kylo, and this confidence in their ability shows real promise.

>>81790893
>For christ's sake. If you took the best boxer in the world, shot him in the stomach, and then had him fight a normal guy, the normal guy would probably win.

Except no, you don't even know how much skill fighting is rather than pure physicality

The only physicality that can stop you is cardio, and a shot in your stomach won't do shit unless you are severely bleeding

>>81790794
What? Dude, calm down. I implied no such thing.

Maybe you should take a break form the internet for a tick. Sounds like you've got flamewar shellshock.

>>81790341
STRONG

So did he kill his peers or did the First Order swoop in and pick him up after they killed his peers?

>>81790341
because she's a fucking mutant with freaky powers, which is probably why her parents abandoned her

>>81790998
INDEPENDENT

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>"You have compassion for her."
>"It isn't her strength that is making you fail. It's your weakness for her."

He doesn't use his full strength against Rey and never has. Watch the battle again and you'll see he never attempts to make a killing blow, he just wants to disarm her. Further proven by the "YOU NEED A TEACHER I COULD TEACH YOU" nonsense he did instead of just shoving her off the cliff.

His weirdo crush on her is messing with him and stopping him from using his full abilities against her. Also, he just killed his dad (and regretted it, according to JJ) and got shot with a bowcaster. He was weakened spiritually and physically.

>>81790893
He was also weakened by Han's death, despite what Snoke told him.

From the script:

>"Kylo Ren is somehow WEAKENED by this wicked act. Himself horrified. His SHOCK is broken only when -- CHEWIE CRIES OUT IN AGONY! Chewie furiously FIRES AT KYLO REN, HITTING HIM IN THE SIDE! Kylo Ren falls back, stunned."

>>81791149
XENOMORPH

>>81790341
Because Rey had
>Plot armour
>MaRey Sue status
>The power of feminism

>>81790992
Autistic twitching

>>81791433
Script really doesn't matter if it doesn't come across by the language of the film and the performance of the actor.

Getting shot in the stomach by Chewie 5 minutes earlier didn't help.

>>81790744
DARKNESS IMPRISONING ME

>>81791776
>Script doesn't matter if it doesn't come across

Plenty of people were saying they thought he regretted killing Han after TFA and other people (like you probably) called them retarded and said he was FULLY DARK now and didn't regret anything, etc. Now you're all butt-blasted and claiming it didn't come across that way because the way you interpreted things turned out to be wrong? Even though others saw what was happening just fine? Kek.

>>81792013
>Plenty of people were saying they thought he regretted killing Han after TFA

Based on what? Their thoughts are meaningless if it doesn't come across on screen. It's just fan theories. I mean you can spouts memes like kek and butt-blasted all you want but it doesn't substantiate a point, especially when I'm being completely calm and rational here simply speaking on what's actually included in the film, not what was supposed to be included based on the script.

>>81790608
anakin had podraced before Subulba taunts him about losing a previous race

>>81790341
The dude took a gut shot from a weapon that twenty minutes prior was sending other men flying back with smoking baseball-sized holes in their chests.

The fact that he was even able to fight at all is impressive and it's not surprising that he lost.

>>81792108
But to them, it did come across on screen. You just didn't notice it. They did.

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He didn't exactly, he lost to The Force...Rey is Grey Jedi....a reincarnation of the first Jedi, she does not use the Force, it uses her. "The Force Awakened"...she is the real chosen one, a vessel for the Force wherein true balance is restored as events are led to the destruction of both corrupt factions, the Sith and Jedi, both corrupt in their use of the force, and force sensitives are restored to their original role, not users of the Force but used by the force, vessels for it. The Force is woke bitches.

>>81792277
Once again, based on what? Your argument here is no better than a guessing game of meaning unless you have something to substantiate the interpretation.

>>81790376
Finn was atleast trained by a highly regulated military organization.
Where did Rey train?
On a moisture farm?

>>81791232
>>"It isn't her strength that is making you fail. It's your weakness for her."
Is this in a book somewhere or are you literally just writing fanfics to justify the fight?

>>81792253
wow kylo is such a badass that physics apply to him differently?

>>81792389
>on a farm

Nicely done, anon

>>81792440
it's from the official novelization anon. happens when kylo is telling snoke that rey is strong with the force.

>>81792304
>The Force is woke
>final scene of ep 9 is the Jedi returning the pyramids to its rightful owners - Black Americans with Twitter accounts

>>81792529
When she mindrapes him?

>>81792494
Force is a hell of a drug

>>81791232
This is pretty much the correct answer. I mean, it wasn't even subtle. Kylo Ren kept checking on his blaster wound during the fight and was certainly trying to talk to Rey.

>>81790972
please tell me this is bait

>>81792667
Right. Even during their first "fight" he could've easily killed her and just taken BB8 but he doesn't. In the novelization he makes it clear that he's just defending himself and doesn't want to fight her:

>"So afraid," he murmured. "Yet I should be the one who should be scared. You shot first. You speak of the Order as if it were barbaric. And yet, it is I who was forced to defend myself against you."

It's the same in the second fight. He's just defending himself and trying to disarm her the whole time, not seriously trying to kill her. He didn't have to ask her nicely before digging in her mind, he didn't need to take off her restraints or show her his real face when she called him a creature in a mask, etc. The Poe interrogation provided contrast in how he treated her VS other prisoners. He definitely has a weakness for her. Not sure how so many people miss it.

>>81792589
they mind raped each other, but yes. after that happens, snoke accuses kylo of having a weakness for her.

>>81791232

HAHAHAHAHAHHA BRAVO JJ

So kylo is now a complete boy who falls for the first girls he sees

What a fucking mess of a movie

>>81792759

Nigga there are boxers who literally fight with broken hands, punctured livers and ruptured shoulders

A trained fighter doesn't care about pain

>>81793200
>now

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>>81790341
>a combat trained and experienced male ever losing to a female in physical combat

when will this meme end

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>>81791232
>you have a crush on a girl
>she's lonely like you
>try to be nice but she hates you
>get accused of having feelings
>"i'll show you guys"
>kill your dad to prove you don't have feelings
>regret it immediately
>get shot with a bowcaster
>girl hates you even more now
>keeps trying to kill you
>you just want to talk
>get BTFO by girl because you can't bring youself to really hurt her
>she gives you giant facial scar
>runs off with a black man

TFA is just kylo ren's no good very bad day.


>boss gets mad bc

>>81793200
I doubt Rey is the first girl he's ever seen. But didn't Anakin fall for Padme at first sight?

>>81793569
It's ok when George does it.

>>81790341
She's naturally stronger with the force than he is. He was also suffering from a fucking bowcaster wound that was constantly bleeding. And the movie made a point of showing how powerful that weapon was.

>>81790341
an untrained but STRONG female character.

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>>81790772
>It wasn't bad when he was a mechanical feral spider
lol are you even hearing yourself?

>>81790341
The girl I can understand, since she has force powers. How did a pussy stormtrooper beat Ren?

>>81790761
Imagine giving a shit about Star Wars canon beyond what's in the movies. I bet you love that autistic Rebels show

Feminism

>>81790341
The same way you can watch a movie for kids and not understand what they put right in your face, and in both cases it won't matter what we tell you because you're probably not going to get it.

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This will be episode 8...

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>>81793857

>>81792304
> the real chosen one this time we swear
No. Fuck you Yoda. We wouldn't be in this mess if we threw you in a retirement home 200 years ago

imagin Kylo Ren and ray *SQUEEEEL* i litteraly cant take how cute that would be!!!! back off fin! SHES NOT MENT FOR U!!!

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>>81793857
Reylo will be canon.

>>81790341
>Force comes from Force Tree
>Force Tree is good, some faggot did some faggot shit to create Dark Side
>Force Tree ain't gonna stand for that shit
>Force Tree Force fucked all other trees in existence, and now all Trees empower the Light Side
>They fought in the Forest
It was all in the leaks my man.
Trees are the new High Ground.
And how could they not be? Their entire existence is dedicated to becoming higher and higher.

>>81793951
isn't kesinger an official disney artist? wtf is he drawing shit like this for when rey and kylo are cousins? does disney support incest???

>>81793937
>blackboi cucked
/pol/ would be screeching

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>>81793937
there is literally not a single person that likes reylo because they think it would be cute. you'd prefer what? finnrey? kek.

>>81793997
>does disney support incest
Since lion king my dude

>>81793990

So it's like a game of thrones bullshit?

we /crossgames/ now?

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>>81793917

>>81794243
In another thread a day or two ago it was actually deduced that the Force Tree according to the leaks functions exactly like the big tree in Avatar, and what's perhaps more damning, all Non-Imperial/Non-First Order tech in TFA and Rogue One has the same kind bright, colourful style that the Guardians of the Galaxy's vision of the universe is known for.
So yes, while I think the Avatar thing is just a shared trope, don't be surprised if when either Star Wars, Marvel or both's sales begin to drop, Disney decides to declare that the MCU and Star Wars are occurring in the same universe.

>>81794401
All that fucking time, I didn't he just punch her in the face?

>>81790972
Are you retarded? Do you have any idea how much damage a shot to the stomach does? How important the muscles in your torso are? If you're even standing up and walking around while your abdominals have been ripped to shreds and your stomach acid is spilling out into the rest of you, that's incredibly exceptional. You can't possibly fight with that type of injury.

If you shot Connor McGregor in the stomach, the average 4chan anon could beat him up, that's how debilitating that type of injury is.

>>81794444
The average male can outperform most female professional athletes, how the fuck does this scene make sense?

>>81790341
is kylo ren the dark souls of star wars?

>>81794522
Because he was shot in the stomach not even one hour earlier. How is this not obvious to you? Did you even watch the movie?

>>81794505
If the shot penetrated in stomach he would have been dead in seconds, i'm pretty sure his "armor" took the brunt of the shot. At most appeared to be like taking a 12 guage to the stomach with Kevlar on.

>>81790341
He just got shot in the gut by a bowcaster and was dealing with the emotional trauma of killing his own father

>>81794522
not to mention that adam driver is 6'3" while daisy ridley weighs about 90lbs.
as if we needed more proof that (((abrams))) is a hack.

>>81794505

It's a blaster anon, it isn't a punctured wound, the pressure isn't high, it carries more momentum and force

If the guys fly off after a blaster it's because it carries more force and blunt trauma than penetration

>>81794613
He's also in the military.

>>81794522
because he's not really trying. he likes rey. would you use your full strength against a girl you had feelings for?

>>81794619
>this much retardation devoted to space knights vs soldiers
Impressive.

>>81794522
Because empowered female. Starwars is a feminist series anon and the Empire = white supremacist (human) organization.

Its hilarious too, because if they didn't want to shove that progressive message they could easily make use of better effects to create interesting empire forces.

have a whole fucking army of some specially suited aliens in the empire ffs.

>>81794697
Oh is that one of those things that people just have to assume since it wasn't shown in the movie?

>>81790399
She obviously had some force training in her young past. Also Ren wasn't trying to kill her, but to convince her to become his pupil. She was on the very much defensive until she had her moment of light side zen.

>>81794724
lmao are you serious?

which point are you disputing? that he wasn't fighting to the best of his ability or that he has feelings for her?

>>81790632
>bringing him back was something so bad not even Lucas could have dreamed it up.
It was Lucas himself actually, recognizing that killing off Maul had been a huge waste and deciding far too late to undo it.

>>81794701

>being this much of a brainlet that he can't first see if can explained with physics

>>81794771
That he as feelings, give me the gestalt on what scenes made his affection clear, because from what I remember, i'm pretty sure his plan was to kill her once he got what he wanted.

>>81794814

>IF IT CAN BE explained with physics*

jesus god

>>81794814
>fucking up English that hard
Most impressive.

>>81794460
Boys can't punch girls, you sexist.

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>>81794522
Professional athletes don't have magic space samurai superhuman powers or use laser swords. Not to mention he was already shot, emotionally compromised from the fact he just killed his father and the movie made it obvious is actually bothered him...and this moment takes place literally seconds after she closes her eyes and allows the force to take over her. Its a fictional story, not a logic based documentary designed to calm the most autistic insecure manchild mind whose penis shrinks and he curls up into a nit-pick mode at any sign of emasculation onscreen.

>>81794828
>his plan was to kill her

what??? he literally begs her to let him be her teacher, wtf are you talking about? he had a million opportunities to kill her if that's what he wanted. he could've killed her and just taken BB8 when he had her at his mercy in the forest, which is what snoke wanted him to do. what movie did you watch?

>>81794805
Yeah. Maul was a terrific antagonist. I know people will call me an autist for this, but I genuinely like the way he had a miraculous comeback in that CGI Rebels series and fights Obi-Wan.

It was a serious mistake by Lucas to get rid of him, although I can understand it because:

1. He needed to give the audience an antagonist to be killed
2. Christopher Lee is a great actor and anyone with half a brain would want him to be the main antagonist

The problem is the lack of screen time devoted to the villains in the prequels. If "Count Dooku" (seriously, he needs a better name) had been in the story from the very first episode, maybe as Obi-Wan's former master who left the Jedi Order, then that would have been better.

>>81794866
In my experience, the best Sci-fi does as much as it can to stay believable, otherwise you get bullshit like the "Love transcends space/time" bullshit.

>>81794866
This. Exactly. Holy shit, are people even remotely considering real-life physics/biology here? The most popular Star Wars movie ever involves a 2 foot tall alien lifting up a vehicle essentially the size of a tank with his mind.

Clearly, actual biology is irrelevant here.

>>81794963
>the best Sci-fi does as much as it can to stay believable, otherwise you get bullshit like the "Love transcends space/time" bullshit.

Star Wars has literally never been like that, though. It was always a magical story in space. Remember in Episode 4, when Obi-Wan literally vanishes when Vader's lightsaber hits him?

Rey is a terrible character. There are so many things to criticize. But 'she's too strong for a girl" is not one of them. This is a story about magical wizards in space.

>>81794973
Only if you're such a mary sue you get to that level of power the day after learning the force exists.

>>81790608

>Anakin had the force on his side
>He had raced several times before just hadn't won yet
>Sebulba might have won if he didn't do stupid shit during the race to fuck up his own pod

>>81790936
I think this pasta is wet, but it's pretty tasteless

>>81790608

it wasn't he

it was she

>>81795011
It's not that she's too strong for a girl, she's too strong, period.

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>>81790341
>ctrl+f "will of the force"
>phrase not found

what happened to this place?

>>81795031
Her opponent was shot in the stomach by a gunshot that has been shown to send multiple grown men flying through the air....the fact that he was even still standing was incredible.

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hmmm

>>81795109
>muh flying through the air
it didn't send him flying through the air. unless he instantly used the force to glue himself to the floor it apparently wasn't as strong a shot. also he was still apparently capable of sending her flying through the air 20 feet into a tree

>>81790341
M A R Y S U E

>>81795168
Right, but that's the weird thing. We saw Chewbacca's gun send multiple grown men flying, but Kylo Ren barely flinched. Of course it hurt him, though, Jedi aren't invincible.

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>>81794697

>would you use your full strength against a girl you had feelings for?
only if she resisted, if you know what i mean

>>81794828
>Brings her back to his ship instead of killing her and taking BB8. An emotional, impulsive decision that wasn't cleared with Snoke and gets him in trouble.

>Treats her kindly during the interrogation, gives her the opportunity to give the information willingly, probes her mind as gently as possible. Compare to how he treats Poe.

>Takes his mask off for her when it makes more sense for him to keep it on if he really wants to intimidate her into giving him information.

>"Don't be afraid, I feel it too."

>Never once tries to land a killing blow during their fight, watch closely. He blocks her attacks and tries to disarm her. When he finally has her at his mercy, instead of just killing her, he begs her to come with him and let him teach her the ways of the force.

Where do you get the idea that his plan was always to just kill her? I suggest watching the movie again.

>>81790972

imagine being this fucking stupid

>>81795305
>you know i can take whatever i want

what did he mean by this???

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>>81794828
>i'm pretty sure his plan was to kill her

Imagine being this stupid and bad at reading subtext.

>>81793637
>>81793569

Except that Anakin was a literal fucking child full of innocence

>>81793937
>cute

I just want them to fuck.

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>>81793997
>his for when rey and kylo are cousins

>>81795484
I'm not even /Reylo/ and don't think it will happen but anyone denying that Kylo has some weird affection for Rey is either retarded, didn't pay attention or is being willfully ignorant.

>>81795123
what have we done /tv/

Kylo is actually pretty strong if you think about it

>takes a shot in the gut that would kill any two people
>first goes toe to toe with a very well trained ex stormtrooper and whoops his ass
>still barely able to stand because of the bowcaster shot and now he has just been hit by a saber
>now has to deal with miracle force user bitch
>for all we know she could have some unexplained as of yet connection to the force which allows her to draw knowledge from other force users
>meditates and reads ren's mind
>bestowed with knowledge of saber combat and overcomes him
>now ren, despite being hit with at least 3-4 different killing blows this entire span and not even fully trained, still manages to survive

>>81795517
and kylo is obviously an emotionally stunted manchild, much like the regulars on this mongolian carpet board. what's your point?

>>81790341
Hamill was right, if Luke got introduced at this moment when the light saber goes flying threw the air people would have completely creamed their pants and it would've gone on to be one of the most kino moments in history.

>>81795623
>>first goes toe to toe with a very well trained ex stormtrooper
he was the fucking janitor

>>81795623

>he thinks being strong is about being resilient

No anon, being strong is about being glorious. There is no glorious in taking damage if you suck at giving damage

>>81795623
Novelization basically says he only lives because Rey decides not to kill him.

>Kill him, a voice inside her head said. It was amorphous, unidentifiable, raw. Pure vengeful emotion. So easy, she told herself. So quick.

>She recoiled from it. From the dark side.

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>ITT:/tv/ fucking realizing just now Kylo's hinted infatuation towards Rey or that Reylo could actually be a thing

Holy shit.

Reylo will never happen

Rey fucking annihilated Kylo in that fight, she will never get his pussy wet for Kylo after that, what kind of women gets in love with the pussy-fella baka

>>81795827
They are cousins FFS

>>81795730
Movie script's non-dialogue descriptions says the same thing.

>HE GOES DOWN, SUDDENLY A FEARFUL MAN, A LARGE BURN SCAR SLASHED ACROSS HIS FACE! He still reaches for his saber. And she could kill him -- right now, with ONE VICIOUS STRIKE! But she stops. Realizing she stands on a greater edge than even the cliff -- the edge of the dark side. The earth SHAKES. The earth splits. A gully forms.

>>81795629
His point is that one was a 10 year old and the other a 20 year old (general guess), one was a child pod racer, the other a sith in training.

Kind of a difference, no?

>>81790341
He had a gaping shotgun blast through his midsection.

>>81796051
>to the rey internet defense force crossbows = shotguns and gaping = barely trickling blood if you punch it a few times

>>81795632
Yup. This was one of many missed opportunities by tfa.

>>81795878
>he doesn't know women love dominating men

kek.

>>81796363

They love being able to dominate a male but they spread the pussy when they are dominated

>>81795878
women love that shit. leaks say rey starts changing her mind about kylo after seeing some force visions of him as an ugly child with no friends and parents who neglected him.

>>81796400
It goes back and forth. And Kylo was a submissive girl's dream in the interrogation scene.

>>81796414

>/r9k/ would be totally a slayer believe me lol

disney shills are even more delusional than marvel cucks

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>>81796016

>>81790341
Plot and grrl power.

>>81795827
>B-but they're COUSINS!!!!!!

People have a hard time accepting Reylo.

>>81795730
>saying "no" to the dark side is that easy
How can we stop her from Mary Suing so hard?

>>81790341
He lost because he's not the big bad and is set up for a redemption that will start in VIII instead of at the very end of IX like Vader.

>>81794522
On that planet the woman have to be smaller and 10x stronger than the men or the men would eat the babys, because evolution. Or maybe its a fictitious universe where people have superpowers.

>>81795967
>>81796592
Relyo "kin"

>>81796039
I think the idea was that he's felt isolated so long, especially under Snoke, and Rey was the first person he made a connection to in any way. She's powerful but also not set in her ways like other Force users he met, ie Luke and his students. She's a blank slate and he also sees things while he mindrapes her that makes him feel closer to her. That potential is why he tries to convince her over to join him. And he specifically says him, not Snoke.

It wasn't love at first sight, more like interest at first sight. And you're forgetting that Rey is SUPAH SPESHUL and that Kylo probably sensed it to a degree. Everyone seemed to.

>>81794522
>Physical strength
>Mattering when you have space magic

>>81790410
/thread

>>81790341
Because feminism

>>81796509

Nah it won't happen

Just as it won't happen with the mad queen in game of thrones

Face it, women will win in hollywood

>>81797341
What, dark Rey? Probably not. From everything I've seen, Luke is setting up to be thte unexpected dark one.

How the fuck could anyone like this character?
Almost as bad as Rey.

>>81797382
He's the best new character and most of the arguments against that are pleb arguments either about him not being Vader enough, or that are based in asspain about Rey winning their final fight.

>>81790341
Mary sue

>>81797416
>or that are based in asspain about Rey winning their final fight.
>villain is shown to be incompetent and loses all credibility as a threat by being beaten by the protagonist at the protagonist's weakest
>hurrr if you think he's not a good character it's asspain

>>81797416
He's an edgy teenager who wants to be bad and shit and yet still sucks at that.

Finn is objectively the best new character. No reason he should exist but at least he has a personality.

>>81794253
why does this scene look so good?

>>81797213
This guy gets it.

>>81795827
The sexual tension in this scene was Palpaltine.

>>81795967
Nah.

>>81790608
>who had never podraced?

Yikes, this is the brain of a sequelfag. Can't even pay enough attention to shit on the movie properly.

>>81790770
>you will never do mental gymnastics this hard to make a shitty fight scene make sense

Feels good, man. I'm glad I'm not autistic

>>81790341
Kylo was heavily injured and he wasn't trying to kill Rey. Snoke wanted her brought back alive

>>81797715
Dunno if you're being sarcastic but I really did feel there was a weird amount of sexual tension.

>>81790608
Anakin has podraced before and it's pointed out that he has extremely quick reflexes due to the force.

Because she is more dark side than he is.

>>81797929
>Snoke wanted her brought back alive

Wasn't he offering to teach him herself? I kind of got the impression that he wanted them to run away together where he could teach her the ways of the force away from Snoke's influence.

>>81797949
No, there was a literal news article for the Times that points out the sexual tension. You have to be blind to miss it.

>>81790341
she cheated

>>81797526
Aren't stormtroopers suppose to have zero personality? He seems way to happy to be a storm trooper. I get they are sociopaths but he takes way too much pleasure in killing his friends.

>>81798405
Like I said no reason he should exist but still a better character

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>>81790399
no

>>81797526
No, he's an adult who has been fucked with by Snoke since he was a child, even in the womb as the latest novel hinted. He lost his faith in the Jedi and turned to the dark side, and now lashes out because he doesn't belong on the dark side and it torments him. His mental and emotional issues keep him from reaching his full potential in the Force even when he is naturally powerful with it.

But I guess it's not mature enough when you don't kill people during one of your tantrums like Vader.

>>81797503
Maybe because his trajectory isn't as a villain.

>>81798460
But he's not. He could have been, but they disregarded making his backstory actually matter in his character arc.

>>81798680
This. Finn is a good example of great concept but bad execution

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>>81790341
females is stronk

>>81798120
Do you think that was done intentionally? Is Reylo a real thing?

I used to think it was made up by delusional fangirls but I'm starting to change my mind recently.

>>81798804
I heard he was originally supposed to be a lot more serious and kind of sociopathic, but then they decided to make him the comic relief instead.

>>81798651
>Maybe because his trajectory isn't as a villain.
The only way the development of rey and kylo makes sense is role reversal and there's no fucking way that happens. Do you think it's more likely that disney is going to throw away all their strong female jedi brownie points or that they don't give a shit about telling a good story as long as they can pander enough to increase the demographics that see their movies?

>>81798961
why is that the only way it makes sense?

I actually like Kylo because he is what I thought Anakin was going to be like except on the other side of the force. I also like the subtext that he grew up on the stories of the Old Republic and the Empire, hearing about what is father, mother and uncle did during that time but starts to dig further into his lineage and started rejecting these stories.

I just wonder how he found out about Vader. Surely Luke, Leia and Han out of all people would keep the dark secret of Vader away from him. They would tell him the story of Anakin, but not Vader. Also, I wonder if there will ever be a scene where Anakin as a force ghost would talk to Kylo.

>>81798889
Finn be kind of sociopathic would make much more sense with his brainwashed since childhood to be stormtrooper background.

>>81799016
Because an infallible protagonist and underdog antagonist is the exact opposite of interesting conflict.

>>81799131
It's obvious from the latest things we've learned about TLJ that Rey is going to get disillusioned with Luke just like Kylo did. It's also pretty obvious that she'll learn something from Kylo's past that makes him more sympathetic to her, otherwise there wouldn't be a mystery around exactly what made him turn. Their trajectory together is not going to be purely antagonistic.

It might not be Reylo but so far the Reylos seem to have predicted the plot correctly.

>>81799062
Luke seems to have been talking about Vader and his redemption and Vader is still a mentioned name, but it's confirmed that Kylo had no idea he was related to Darth Vader until it came out as a scandal against Leia 6 years before TFA.

My guess is that Snoke has been whispering in Kylo's ear for a long time telling him the truth and that his family wasn't trustworthy. Kylo didn't believe him until the truth was finally revealed, and suddenly Snoke became the only person who wasn't lying to him. It's also likely that whatever discovery drove Luke to believing the Jedi had to end also played a part in Kylo's eventual turn.

>>81798889
This one change would have made the show infinitely better

Just rewatched this movie tonight, honestly the best explanation is she's the fucking Chosen One. The turning point in the fight was when she closed her eyes and just decided to Force harder than Kylo could Force.

It'd explain her being Godlike at everything and it's my expectation for Episode VIII.

Now why Jynn Erso is Godlike at everything, the world may never know.

>>81799212
I mean they literally had her mind control a guy so she wouldn't have to wait 30 minutes and suffer the indignity of being rescued instead of being a wunderkind. If you're assuming they give a shit about kylo's introduction making some kind of thematic sense it seems reasonable to expect them to do the same for her. But the actual implication of that is something that doesn't make financial sense and therefore won't happen. Which is evidence against 'they have a plan that will make this all less stupid'.

>>81790341

feminist plot armor

>>81792955
>not sure how people miss it
Because the movie is flawed as it is, it makes sense as for why people won't try to get into it any deeper because of it. You can't trust the movie as it could have been either way.

>>81798870
I think it is endgame for sure. I don't even want it to happen, but it seems like that's where Disney is taking us. Plus the fact that he is the last Skywalker and th only son of Leia and Han.

>>81799327
I don't think Rey is going to go full dark or anything. They're setting her up to be somebody who finds a true "balance". You know, the things fan scream about because the balance isn't meant to be between light and dark. Apparently it is now.

No doubt Luke will be significantly darker, though. Daisy already talked about how the movie goes into how meeting your heroes can be the worst thing. And Luke is bigger, entirely red, and looks even scarier than Kylo on that poster. Kylo looks worried and soft while Luke looks angry and determined. It says quite a lot.

>>81799262
That's a fair assumption. Vader was a huge figurehead of the Empire, not talking about him would've driven Kylo to yearn for that knowledge earlier.

Kylo seemed like he had a messed up child hood. His father left after some time to go back to smuggling and not caring about the kid and having his mum drop him off to Uncle's place so he can learn space magic.

Now that may seem great to some people, emotions would've boiled inside of him and the Dark Side takes advantage of the emotions.

It also seems like Chewie was close to him at some point when he was younger, probably making Han's death even more tragic for poor shaggy carpet.

>>81799262
>It's also likely that whatever discovery drove Luke to believing the Jedi had to end also played a part in Kylo's eventual turn.
This is somenthing i don't understand. They want the same fucking shit the jedi to end. They probably discovered the same thing together, so why they started to fight?

how do people not realize that HE DID NOT WANT TO KILL REY

>>81799387
Reylo could be good if pulled off right. But that's a tall order for the ST.

What's going to end up happening if they go that direction is Kylo severely outshining Rey as a character. That means articles upon articles of feminists getting up in arms about it. But that's what happens when one character is heavily flawed and has a redemption arc while the other has ridiculously few flaws.

>>81799425
I think something happened that made Kylo not only lose faith in the Jedi, but in Luke too. Snoke whispering in his ear notwithstanding.

Even if they discovered something along the same lines, I'd bet that they had fundamental disagreements on what to do with that information and how to react to it. Luke may have advocated for doing nothing and only gets fully disillusioned with the Jedi Order after Kylo massacres his students. And the dark side is somewhere Luke wouldn't follow Kylo, so at that point it's too late to get them on the same side.

>>81799393
>You know, the things fan scream about because the balance isn't meant to be between light and dark.
>heh i'm above your petty moral philosophies and can just do whatever i need with no consequences
people don't hate grey jedi shit because it's not canon, they hate it because the last thing this franchise needs is for rey to go full hedgehog

>>81799443
Her only flaw is being righteous and emotional, no wonder they're not making them out to be negatives in the film.

>>81799437
He didn't want to kill Finn either and wound up disarming him in under a second once he got fed up with dicking around with the nig.

The bottom line is that having Rey win that fight essentially ruins Kylo as any kind of antagonist and also ruins Rey as any kind of developing character since she's already Godly at everything naturally. If Luke had bumfucked Vader in A New Hope after he killed Obi Wan the rest of the trilogy would be pointless.

>>81799437
is this one of those things you have to make up to fool yourself it's not a shit flick?

>>81799490
I'm not disagreeing with the complaints. I'm just recognizing that real "grey" appears to be where they're going with it. Which is strange considering being between light and dark is exactly what torments Kylo so much. It's not really presented like trying to balance with the dark side works.

>>81799518
It's canon and emphasized quite a lot if you paid attention.

>>81799496
Not if their story isn't about them being at each other's throats forever. Then it doesn't matter if she beat him. Kylo isn't the final boss and the trilogy clearly isn't about leveling up to defeat him.

>>81799561
nah

>>81799590
yah.
>>81795332

Not listed here is the scene of Snoke accusing Kylo of failing because he has compassion for Rey. A scene that was in the novel and actually filmed but didn't make it into the final cut.

>>81799533
Rey will do it differently because she's special like that. Kylo is doing it wrong and she'll teach him how to do it right.

>>81799518
But anon if he wanted her dead he would've threw her off that cliff instead of offering to be her teacher

>>81799589
if he sucks then his moral waffling doesn't matter because he's not capable of influencing events anyway. there's no reason for his character to be in the story and get this much screen time. unless they've decided star wars is no longer galactic scale science fantasy and is now incredibly shitty character drama

>>81799393
That poster makes it obvious that Kylo isn't there to just get eviler. I was surprised to see him looking so sympathetic in it. I'm not sure where Rian Johnson is going with this.

>>81790341
On paper it totally makes sense
>was only trying to overpower her
>tanked a Bowcaster shot like half an hour ago, gun that was showed to one shot everything before IIRC
>killed his papa back then too and he's obviously just a wimpy kid and not a hardcore badass so he's going through some trauma

But it was poorly executed. He fought in what looked like pretty much top shape as evidenced by the fight with black guy (I keep forgetting his name) which was child's play, but Rey overpowers him with INNER STRENGTH that just ended up making Kylo look like a wee pansy in comparison, especially since it was her first time?

>>81799589
Clearly since Rey's already naturally at a level higher than someone trained in the Force and who is the descendant of someone literally born of the Force. There's absolutely nothing left for Kylo to do but turn back to the light side now and be some sort of back-up for Rey because he's useless as an antagonist and he's also not as powerful as Rey so he can only possibly be her sidekick.

It also just makes the movie relation between the two meaningless in and of itself within TFA. Rey was afraid of him for nothing all along since she's naturally more powerful than him. It's weak within the movie and it's weak leading into the sequel since it shows Rey as an unstoppable force of nature heading into the next movie. There was no sense of shortcoming anywhere in the ending to set up conflict. They destroyed the Death Star and Luke defeated Vader. It's just incompetent writing.

>>81799679
>implying he's physically capable of driving her back from that deadlock when she's clearly stronger than him
poor guy was probably just trying to stall waiting for the earth to split and separate him from the scary demon girl

>>81799706
Kylo is the Skywalker, the link to Snoke, and has information about the past with Luke. If the movie goes how I expect, he'll also be a key to defeating Snoke. He's the one who has spent years with Snoke, after all.

He only "sucks" when he's having his moral dilemmas. He's pretty in control at the beginning of the movie when he wasn't waffling. The assumption is if he stops waffling, he'll be effective.

>>81798860
anyone else think he looks like he's gonna kiss her?

>>81798860
The moment white males KNEW they fucked up!

>>81799769
Rey's character arc isn't about getting stronger, but accepting her place in the universe. Her actress already outright said that she's going to be questioning everything and seriously questioning Luke. Rian also said that she gets several emotional gutpunches in VIII, which leaves her very vulnerable to going dark.

This is Disney so she won't go full dark, but she'll probably have big struggles with it. Kylo may be both something that pulls her toward the dark and what helps drag her away from it eventually.

>>81799774
>Kylo is the Skywalker, the link to Snoke, and has information about the past with Luke.
So what, his narrative role is to be all conflicted until he eventually turns into an exposition fountain? Villain redemption is only exciting if the villain brings something the protagonist isn't capable of. Otherwise he might as well be snoke's defecting secretary.

>>81799846
Insider knowledge on Snoke, how he operates, and his plans is one such thing. Kylo is also powerful with the Force even thought people try to pretend he isn't.

>>81798084
What if Kylo isn't actually evil, he just wanted a gf

>>81799846
If Kylo is redeemed, he'll probably be the one who lands the final blow on Snoke. That's much more his fight than it will ever be Rey's.

When you think about it, this whole story is more Kylo's than Rey's. Rey is just accidentally in the middle of it all.

>>81796509
It's like pottery, it rhymes!

>>81799772
She only got stronger than him in that fight when he gave her 2 years to give him a answer, he was winning before that

>>81790608
He didn't try spinning, it was a good trick.

>>81799902
Kylo's got a hell of a death flag
He'll be given tragic backstory in ep 8, and ep 9 will have him turning back to the light, a la vader, except he'll do so early in the film, and in the end, he'll have to fight Rey, who's been manipulated by Snoke.
He'll ultimately lay down his life to show her she's being manipulated. She'll strike him down, realize what she's done, then defeat snoke.
Episode 9 ends with Anakin appearing as a force ghost to Kylo.

>>81792389
Rey trained by surviving thiefs, thugs, rapists and murderers.

Also she's obviously meant to do something grand due to the Force and all. She could have literally defeated Kylo with a wet rag since she has destiny on her side.

A new thing in Disney canon is that anyone can use a lightsaber.

People do it in Rebels
People do it here.

And because Rey faught with a stick before it obviously means that she can hold a lightsaber as well.
Doesn't matter that Kylo trained with the blade for his entire life.

>>81799846
>Otherwise he might as well be snoke's defecting secretary.
Hold the fuck up.

Duet of DS9 is one amazing episode of television and it's basically that.

>>81800007
This is what people keep missing. The Force is on Rey's side. It specifically called to her and showed her things, and is working its will through her.

>>81799844
Yes that's what I'm saying. Rey being the Godly Chosen One striding through everything on her screenwriter-granted plotForce-armor does not make for a compelling character or narrative. The struggle to attain is the universal trait of protagonists for a reason. Creating a character who is the key to every lock is not an interesting set-up for a narrative. It's not about getting stronger, it's about becoming wiser through experience, and through wisdom and experience comes power. That's why the archetypal hero's journey follows the protagonist from innocence to experience. Rey already begins with power and the knowledge of how to use it.

Flawless characters simply don't work on a storywriting level because they undermine everything that makes a human narrative impactful and valuable. Humanity is a struggle, and a character that doesn't struggle with human condition isn't going to be very interesting to humans. Humans are the main audience for movies. Characters like Finn, Poe, and even Cassian from Rogue One are far better written and more interesting because while they can be competent they also make mistakes, and they struggle to attain things, and these are just secondary characters.

>>81799862
>Insider knowledge on Snoke, how he operates, and his plans is one such thing.
Snoke's secretary has that too. And after he hands that shit over rey can just go kick snoke's ass.

Unless nu-star wars starts making duels about the power of teamwork instead of a clash of philosophies and individual will. Which I wouldn't really put past them.

>>81800108
>Snoke's secretary has that too
Go watch Duet from DS9

It's good, you won't regret it if you watch the whole thing.

>>81800108
What drove Luke and Kylo apart seems to be literally a clash of philosophies. Luke and Rey also are confirmed to have a clash of philosophies. Rey and Kylo would appear to have a clash, but will they really when Rey learns more about Luke? The development between those three will be the main tension before it turns to defeating Snoke.

All of this isn't even getting into the very strong theory that Snoke is training Kylo up to eventually steal his body/life force. That adds a whole other layer to things.

What do leaks say about Rey and Kylo?

>>81800179
They fuck.

>>81800101
I'm not defending Rey's characterization and find her quite boring too. I'm just saying that the thing to "attain" isn't always power. Some characters start out naturally powerful and have to grow as people instead. That will be Rey. Rey is still firmly stuck in the past and it's doing nothing but damaging her. It also leaves her open to going dark under the right circumstances.

>>81800158
>>81800049
This, Duet is basically a secretary for the bad guys and was amazing as said

>>81800158
Alright. Thanks for the recommendation.

TR8-T0R would beat finn and rey. Fuk u khan, so low.

>>81800179
This is assuming that there are any real leaks. Most are shakiest when it comes to Kylo because he's the hardest character to predict. A lot of them have a strong lie for the Finn and Poe stuff but fall apart when trying to make something up for the Force plot.

Sources like MSW have nothing but cosmetic details on Kylo. Most of what they've said about Rey is the thing about her dynamic with Luke being tense instead of him being just a wise mentor.

>>81800231
Free trial on Hulu if you don't want to grab a torrent. I don't know if they want card info or anything though.

>>81800049
>>81800222
Holy jeeze, that ending though
You saw it a mile away and it still hurt.

>>81800179
The rumour is that luke want rey to kill kylo but she doesn't want to do this. there is another rumour from someone who a proven right before that rey and kylo will have a conversation inside a hut that luke will not like so he'll explode the hut with the force

>>81800179

>Snoke sends Kylo and the Knights of Ren to kill Luke and Rey. Luke defeats the Knights of Ren, while Kylo and Rey fight, and unexpectedly develop a bond of sorts. Rey reacts badly when Luke tells her that in order to beat Snoke she must kill Kylo.

>Snoke tries to entice Rey to become his new apprentice, Kylo gets butthurt and kidnaps Rey, leaving Snoke to find a "middle ground" between the Dark Side and the Light. Finn and Poe then team up with Luke to rescue her.

>>81800369
>from someone who a proven right before
details?

>>81800179
They are "connected through the force" - they most likely linked themselves to each other unknowingly when they had their mind duel during the interrogation scene. They will probably feel each other's feelings and what not.

>>81800081
That's dumb

>>81790341
He was shot in the fucking side you fucking idiot.

>>81800204
I already said it's not about power but wisdom and experience. If you remember the original trilogy for example Luke grows and grows in his wisdom and experience, and with this comes the power to defeat the Emperor not through force but through his wisdom and experience when he realizes that using his power to defeat his enemies will only turn him into his enemies. He sees that when he finally overpowers Vader by giving in to his rage that he becomes like Vader. It comes from a growth in Luke he moves from being a good-hearted but somewhat whiny and hotheaded youth through his experiences and lessons from Yoda into a grown man able to calm his own personality flaws and take cntrol of himself, since the spirituality and mysticism the Force was based on was heavily bound in knowing and taming yourself. It's the most essential story element people come up with because it's the most widely understandable, we start life as kind of clumsy, kind of selfish, kind of angry, kind of incompetent people, and over life we try to become competent and suppress our worse aspects and polish our better aspects in adulthood.

Rey as a person is already kind, wise, virtuous, and loyal. She literally has no-where to go but down to darkness. She can only really go backwards on the experience and wisdom scale because right now she is already all-powerful and benevolent. Because the writers didn't start her out in a place where maybe she was all-powerful Chosen One but kind of a shitty, or didn't know how to apply it, or was on the Dark Side and needed the wisdom to to turn to the light, she's really got no-where to go as a character for improvement and the struggle for attainment unless she's just attaining a worse version of herself.

>>81800388
someone saw the set photos, made vague guesses, and a later interview made the vague guesses sound plausible.

>>81800388
He told weeks before the airport pics that adam driver would be in ireland, he described part of finn plot with phasma way before MSW, and he described a resintance planet correctly before msw and a war scene in rogue one. He told he had friends in pinewood

>>81800369
If they do that to luke, they're gonna piss off SO many fans.
Han was han, leia was leia. But if luke suddenly becomes "grr, kill the bad guy" after basically endangering all of his friends to avoid killing his father, people might get very vocal, very fast.

>>81790341
She's the reincarnation of the founder of the Jedi order. A perfect super being.

Also women are the light side and men are the dark side in Nu Star Wars, so Kylo was destined to lose

I hate the laser rifle nonsense.

>knocks other people of their feet without even a direct hit, Kylo just kind of doubles over because sure
>apparently bad enough a wound to lose fight but not doesn't stop you from sprinting ahead to ambush heroes
>literally fighting someone who is using their weapon for the first time, you've apparently been training with this shit for years

I dunno. Add all the other stuff (master mechanic, incredible pilot of any ship she comes in contact with, force powers within the second try) it's like give me a break dude. What is Luke even going to teach her other than force pushing/pulling? It's not like there's anything left to teach with a lightsaber and she's already got the mind control shit down. I'm struggling to think what they can show Rey doing that she already hasn't accomplished. And if they try to go backwards it'll look even worse (you can beat the baddie on your first go but not after months of training?).

"She hasn't even gone to Dagobah for training!"

-Luke

>>81800531
Have you seen the poster? Luke looks almost like a villain, its happening

>>81800369
>luke want rey to kill kylo
>>81800374
>Luke tells her that in order to beat Snoke she must kill Kylo.

I can see why Mark Hamill hates the direction they have taken Luke. Luke refused to even kill the Emperor because he recognized that killing someone in anger and revenge would only fuel more of the same. Now they're going to undo the fantastically cathartic ending of ROTJ by saying "lol Luke became super edgy now in his grizzled Old Man Luke form and now he thinks you should kill Kylo in anger and revenge."

>>81800369
The "hut" is now most likely the Tree, since MSW has a report of it being burned down.

>>81800081
so she should be able to jump off cliffs and shit and survive coz the force will save her?

>>81800388
He was proven correct in his leaks about Rogue One set pieces and his leaks about TLJ are looking more and more true. It's also notable that he suddenly stopped talking about it nearly a year ago after he promised more information. Likely because he was told to shut up.

His username was some variation of Bothan Spy on reddit if you want to look through his old posts.

>>81800592
>What is Luke even going to teach her other than force pushing/pulling?
She already can pull lightsabers.

>>81800642
Whatever, i want to know what kind of conversation could rey and kylo have that would piss off luke so much

>>81800630
But Mark always wanted Luke to go dark at some point.

>>81800654
That isn't usually enough to take down Force users anyways.

>>81800686
Probably something about whatever discovery turned the tides for him and Luke regarding the Jedi order. That's not exactly something you'd want your apprentice/nephew who turned and slaughtered your students to be presenting to your new student. It's likely that Kylo will be a big reason why Rey lacks trust in Luke.

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>Twins, one male, one female
>Just like Luke and Leia
>The female "discovers" the Force at a place that becomes known as the "Force Tree"
>The female twin founds the Jedi Order
>The male twin is evil and kills the female.
>Before she dies she makes a prophecy that she will return as The One
>Meanwhile Darth Sidious creates Anakin Skywalker to be a false prophet / golem type creation
>The Jedi are fooled into thinking he's The One
>The Jedi only realize their mistake too late.
>Anakin destroys almost all the Jedi
>Luke tries to redeem his evil father who literally slaughtered children.
>Rey is born and she is the perfect reincarnation of The One. Flawless in every way.
>She finds Luke Skywalker, who now just like his evil father, wants to destroy the Jedi Order

Rey will stop Luke's plans, restore order to the galaxy, and will destroy the dark side. She will also bring about the rise of the new Jedi order as predicted by Supreme Leader Snoke in TFA.

The entire Star Wars saga is about how women are good and men are evil.

The women are all leaders (Padme, Leia, Rey, Mon Mothma)

The men are all drawn to the dark side (Anakin, Palpatine, Snoke, Kylo)

>>81800352
Yep, DS9 was awesome.

>>81800592
Everything Rey does with the Force is relatively minor. Luke is probably a powerhouse by now and can teach her a lot more.

>>81800101
>>81800204

I feel like you guys are forgetting that this is a JJ Abrams deal. Star Trek Into Darkness is a Wrath of Khan retread, the box has an alien, Lost is what it is, Cloverfield is a monster movie. I swear, JJ's real talent is getting people to continually assume that he's brilliantly inventive as he continues satisfying basic expectations.

Rey is Luke's daughter. That's why Leia loves her so much; that's why Han is keen on her; that's why she's ridiculously strong with the Force; that's why Kylo has this fondness for her.

Rey is basically Anakin. She's an amazing droid-building, pod-racing Force genius, and it fucks Kylo up because as much as he wants to be the Supreme Skywalker, he's got this nagging feeling that it's not his destiny, it's hers, and as the Force conspires to drag her into the middle of the action, it's a big mindfuck that throws him off hard. Kylo's probably even the one who dropped her off on Jakku, and Luke thinks she's dead or whatever, explaining why Kylo is so furious hearing that a girl escaped. He expected them to get away, but only gets upset when he hears about a girl involved. He consistently avoids trying to kill Rey, and probably even had her dropped there himself.

>>81800739
Also it'll be different when she's not beating her baddie while he's heavily injured, freshly mindfucked and canonically weakened by killing his father, and tired from fighting another character.

>>81800746
Rey's not Luke's daughter

>>81800746
She's not Luke's daughter nor is she a Skywalker. Watch.

Also, Kylo isn't really fucked up by Rey's power. If anything it makes him more attracted to her. Thus him offering to teach her. Him dropping her off on Jakku also doesn't work within the timeline and it's confirmed that he didn't know her. Daisy also said outright that Luke has no clue who she is.

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>>81790341
Because if a woman ever loses a fight that's muh soggy knees

>>81800535
>She's the reincarnation of the founder of the Jedi order. A perfect super being.
No, the whole Force tree thing was bullshit. There's a whole fucking comic about what the tree is, it's not at all what those leaks say it is.

The tree is special solely because it came from the Jedi temple of Coruscant and represents the Jedi. Luke also gave one to Poe's parents.

>>81800746
Rey was dropped in jakku almost a decade before kylo went crazy

>>81800691
He did. Luke went Dark Side at the end of ROTJ when he unleashed all his anger on Vader. Then once he got a taste of that darkness and saw what it resulted in he swore it off.

Luke should be like thirty years wiser now on top of that. Now Mark is making statements about how he dislikes Luke's character in Last Jedi already. Honestly Luke should at this point be so far beyond combat that he could overpower and disarm Kylo with only the Force, then speak to him spiritually through a mind link and share understanding, wisdom, and knowledge with Kylo through the Force instantly expanding Kylo's view on things and his philosophy. The only thing standing in the way of this being powerful dark side cloudiness and inerference from Snoke. It'd be a much better endpoint for Luke's character that he's become so zen, and so one with the Force, and so wise, that he literally defeats his enemies by showing them the error of their ways and enlightening them.

>>81800757

Why won't it be different for Rey? She got her brain examined from Kylo, watched her new father figure die, saw her best friend laying possibly dead in the snow...and now she'll have actual training about the force and the saber under her belt. After figuring out everything she did in the movie BY HERSELF. What possible excuse could she have to lose to that failure?

>>81790770
>She could be a kenobi, or a skywalker

Wrong. She's of the best bloodline there is; she's a Katarn

>>81800817
But if Luke could do that then none of this would be happening. It didn't happen in the original EU either, where his life pretty much went to shit. Him being a flawless character is unbelievably dull anyways. Luke was never flawless.

Because a galaxy far, far away is actually hell.

>>81798860
You can shit on TFA as you want, but this looks great. Good acting and effects. It doesn't look cheap. Pity that only Kylo is a good character.

>>81800836
All of the things I said above. When she beat Kylo, he was pretty much at the most rock bottom he possibly could be. He won't be in future movies.

>>81800785

Star Wars is the story of the Skywalker family. Disney, JJ, everybody agrees on that. It doesn't make any sense to come out with "oh, yeah, btw the actual Chosen One is some random chick who has nothing to do with all these Skywalkers."
She's a Skywalker.

>>81800739

What does being a powerhouse Jedi even mean? We going back to prequel fighting or something?

>>81800817
Mark said he fundamentally disagreed at first and then learned to trust Rian's vision.

Also he talked about wanting Luke to go more dark than that. Sounds like he's partially getting his wish.

>>81800843
She doesn't look space Asian so she can't be.

>>81800798
You're literally wrong about everything. The Poe comic trees prove the rumors are true. The Jedi temple trees are important because they're a reference to the original Force tree.

Also that's why Rey is such an over powered super being in TFA. Why she knows things she hasn't been taught

Because she's the one.

>>81800785

And by the way, I seem to recall JJ Abrams running massive damage control flat-out lying to journalists about how Cumberbatch was in no way, shape, or form Khan.

So Kylo Ren is the only one in the Knights of Ren that has a lightsaber?

>>81800874
More like she will pop out more Skywalker babies.

>>81800918
With Kylo.

>>81800874
Kylo and Luke are both Skywalkers and are extremely prominent. We're not lacking for Skywalkers and most of this story connects back to Kylo already. There's no need for another Skywalker.

Like Maz said, whoever left Rey isn't coming back for her. Ever. But Luke can. Luke is specifically differentiated from those who left her, who are presumably her actual parents. Her belonging is ahead, and her story will be about finding a family of her own instead and she'll be heavily involved with the Skywalkers.

She's not a Skywalker and you're going to hear many screams about it when it's revealed.

>>81800848
>But if Luke could do that then none of this would be happening.
Snoke.

>original EU
Are we really gonna bring up the original EU as some sort of standard of characterization?

>a flawless character is unbelievably dull anyways. Luke was never flawless.
Luke overcame is flaws over the course of the OT, that was rather the point of the trilogy and his hero's journey. The new trilogy would ideally be about Rey doing the same as Luke enlightens her on how he overcame his own personal shortcomings, but she had none from the start. It would be a much more powerful and significant end point for Luke if he had developed so far from the end of Jedi that he had become like Yoda (who was basically flawlessly wise) and fought with wisdom instead of whipping out a green glowstick and swinging it at the bad guy like in Episode II.

>>81790341
Because he didn't want to kill her, he wanted her to be his gf

>>81800902
You're an ignorant troll.

The original Force tree bullshit rumors were COMPLETELY proven wrong when they first appeared a year+ ago and have since been edited to sound more plausible to trick gullible fools like you.

And Hidalgo himself already said she's the "awakening" in the Force and a chosen one like Anakin. That's why she's powerful, not that stupid nonsense you were fed.

First comes the day
Then comes the night.
After the darkness
Shines through the light.
The difference, they say,
Is only made right
By the resolving of gray
Through refined Jedi sight.

>>81800905
What does that have to do with anything? Other official sources talked about Kylo not knowing who she is and Daisy herself said that Luke doesn't know who Rey is. The only thing JJ did was say offhand that Rey's parents weren't in TFA but then backtracked hard, likely after he got yelled at for revealing things.

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>>81800974
Nope. Everything you've said is blathering nonsense.

There is only one chosen one and that's Rey.

You're wrong about everything

>>81800974
Anakin wasn't the chosen one. Even Yoda admitted that. Have you even watched these movies?

>>81801018
Yikes you're a dedicated troll.

>>81800961
It's not a standard of characterization, more like a preemptive argument because so many people bring up the EU as a comparison with this like it matters.

Good characters should never fully overcome their flaws, just like people never do. Luke just being the enlightening mentor sounds unbelievably boring. I'm excited that he's actually getting a character arc of his own instead of just being a wise plot device. I'd never want him to just be another Yoda.

>>81801036
No, the rumors all come from reliable sources and your nonsense comes from your ass. Try actually having an argument next time.

>>81801033
Lucas outright told everyone he was...what the fuck are you talking about? Clone Wars even made it clear.

Be brought balance and fulfilled the prophecy by eliminating the Sith. Now Rey is going to merge them or something.

>>81801065
What reliable sources? Name them.

I actually remember how that stupid Force tree script came about and there was nothing reputable about it.

>>81800943

I'm telling you, every single time JJ Abrams does something like this, everybody gives him the benefit of the doubt. People come up with these convoluted theories and explanations, while JJ lies and misleads. "No, the box doesn't have an alien in it;" "no, Benedict Cumberbatch isn't going to be Khan;" and then the movie comes out, it's exactly what people thought it was going to be, yet, for some reason, next time around they're ready to buy into all of his bullshit and misdirection.

JJ isn't going to make white male Kylo Ren the hero of the sequel trilogy. JJ isn't going to let Luke take over the trilogy. What JJ is going to do, is have Rey be a Skywalker, as everyone assumed all along, and shadow the "I am your father" moment with the big reveal of Rey's heritage at her lowest moment, probably delivered by Kylo.

>>81801079
But Yoda said they might have been mistaken. That means Anakin isn't the chosen one.

>>81801065
Hidden, didn't read.

>>81801079
Nope. Wrong.

The Sheev scene in Ep3, Yoda admitin they misread the prophecy, Anakin was not the chosen one

>>81801103
MIGHT have misread the prophecy.

>>81801084
Nope. All of the stuff we're talking about is recent. Try and keep up.

>>81801096
You got BTFO

>>81801093
JJ never lied or made big claims about what Rey would be in the story. Evidence within novels and the movies points at Rey not being a Skywalker. The timeline doesn't work in any way that isn't convoluted as fuck or completely character assassinating.

Kylo isn't going to be the hero and Luke won't take over, and Rey will be the main hero. But she's also not going to be a Skywalker.

>>81801094
Are you being intentionally stupid? Anakin being the chosen one has been fact for a very, very long time. Lucas explained it was Anakin multiple times since people would ask if it was Luke.

>>81801065
I also know you're trolling but the "One" storyline used in the made up Force tree nonsense came from the Clone Wars series and was already explored.

>>81801134
And the Sheev scene where he admits he, and possibly his former master created Anakin

Not
The
Chosen
One

>>81801136
Dedicated troll indeed!

>>81801136
So no sources. Shocking.

>>81801151
The Ones are a reference to what we'll seen in Ep8, same with the Force trees in the Poe comic

You're a shit troll

>>81801161
Actually what was explained was that Plageius in his arrogance tried to bend the midichlorians to his will, and in response to him they were essentially "angered" that he would do this so they created Anakin for him instead to remove the Sith permanently.

Trolling has gone too far to actually say Anakin wasn't the chosen one. He fulfilled the prophecy, this was even spoken about openly by the story group as to why there would be no more Sith from here out in Star Wars. (Even if it doesn't make sense due to all the Sith shit laying around the galaxy waiting to be found)

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>>81801172
Sources all over the place are talking about the force tree friend.

Do try and keep up

>>81801043
Luke completely doing a 180 from Jedi and basically not being Luke at all sounds unbelievably boring to me. If I wanted to see some character not act like their character they could have just made a new character. It's simply bad writing. The way we see these characters now is themselves plus thirty years of their character traits. Han and Leia were done this way so it's baffling why Luke wouldn't be.

Also Luke still wouldn't be flawless, e just has new flaws. Now he has to deal with his failures in starting the new Jedi order and losing Han and Leia's son to the dark side. That's the point. Give the character a new struggle, don't lazily retread the one they already resolved thirty years prior. Also it's about more than his characterization in what he is struggling with and also in how he confronts his enemies which is the most important aspect you're ignoring. It would be 100% against Luke's entire being now, thirty years of wisdom later after his revelations in Jedi, to engage with his enemies with a lightsaber or to kill them in anger and revenge which is the biggest problem here and exactly my original comment. That Luke now, if he were actually sensibly continued from his Jedi characterization finale, should be defeating his enemies through wisdom and enlightenment. You seem to still want him hitting people with a laser sword.

>>81801207
Hilariously wrong. The ep3 novel BTFOs your entire shit argument

>>81801243
Just stop posting kiddo.

>>81801261
You got BTFO so many times

>>81801242
>Simply bad writing
Have you seen the movie or Luke's reasoning yet? Also, MSW and multiple sources think that Luke never wields a lightsaber in the movie. Nor do we know if he plans to kill anyone over anger or revenge.

I also never said anything about him wanting to use a lightsaber or start cutting through people. I'm not sure why you're putting so many words in my mouth. I just want him to not be some perfect enlightened being only there to be a plot device that spread exposition and wisdom.

>>81801184
>He thinks people will actually believe that the episode of Clone Wars will be the movie

We already had the incarnations of the Light and Dark, anon. The siblings from Clone Wars...people called the troll that originally started as stealing it all from that Clone Wars episode...why perpetuate this? Is it really fun to behave like a 5 year old?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIh1oxFJNWk

>>81801243
>>81801271
So do you just troll Star Wars threads all day or something?

>>81801306
Maybe you should read the (You) train you're hopping onboard next time so you'll know the context of my statements eh.

>I just want him to not be some perfect enlightened being only there to be a plot device that spread exposition and wisdom.
Talk about putting words in people's mouths.

>>81801312
What's it like to be wrong about everything?

>>81801325
>wah wah wah I don't like where Disney Star Wars is heading so you must be a troll! Muh old canon!

Sad.

>>81801312
That might be the shittiest fight scene I've ever seen outside of star trek.

>>81801312
>siblings

Huh. Where have we seen that before? All a set up for ep8.

>>81801342
That was what you said you wanted him to be before. Some being on another plane of existence who could simply mindmeld with Kylo and talk him out of his pain and enlighten him.

You still aren't contradicting the rest of it. You're making wild assumptions about where this character is going and saying it destroys his arc in the original trilogy without knowing the facts.

>>81801369
You're really weird.

>>81801408
>That was what you said you wanted him to be before.
Nuuupe.

>You still aren't contradicting the rest of it. You're making wild assumptions about where this character is going and saying it destroys his arc in the original trilogy without knowing the facts.
Maybe you should read the (You) train you're hopping onboard next time so you'll know the context of my statements eh.

>>81801146

Evidence? I'm not so convinced. Everything points to Rey being profoundly special and important. She's not just dragged into this story, she's called to Luke's lightsaber, and when Leia at long last figures out where Luke is after searching for so long, Rey goes alone.

I'm telling you. Luke is going to die like Obi Wan, Rey is going to have her heritage revealed, Kylo will get a modicum of redemption, and she's a Skywalker.

>>81801676
I'd like to hear Rey say the words "I'm your father" upon dawning upon her that she's Anakin reincarnated.

>>81801721
>Kylo: "I KILLED MY FATHER!"
>Rey: "No, I am your (grand)father."