Why aren't epics like Cleopatra or Spartacus a thing anymore?

>>81733504
too boring

americans have no history so are confused and upset by historical works.

>>81733598
O B S E S S E D

>>81733504
they cant milk it anymore

>>81733598
this pretty much. cultureless historyless people don't care about historical epics

which explains the popularity of capeshit.

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>>81733612
O B E S E

>>81733504

I don't know what planet you live on but they had a film about Egyptians like last year, and I remember a series about Spartacus like a couple of years ago.

They are. At least their remakes are still a thing. There's a few new ones too (Queen of the Desert, Michiel de Ruyter, etc.)

You should look into foreign movies to get your fix, there's a lot of good historical epics, new and old, that are not american made.

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>>81733658
>film/tv show about history automagically makes it an epic

cause noone is a unimaginative christian that thinks media and entertainment have to be "wholesome" (whatever that means) anymore

>>81733504
Because no one knows history any more and it isn't capeshit to entertain the plebified masses.

>>81733719
Noone who?

>>81733658
>a film about Egyptians like last year
Do you mean the one based on the bible or the one with flying demon gods? Not sure how historic either one is famm

>>81733745
But, Anon, history IS capeshit. It's literally costumes, capes, intrigue and action.

>>81733774
He meant the King Tut mini-series, I think.

Because nobody can agree what color the actors should be

>>81733504
cgi

>>81733839
That's... actually a good point.

SJW and /pol/ have ruined movies!

>>81733822
>TUT aka Ghandi VS That Fag From Victorious

>>81733749
movie producers, directors, writers, etc. also the demand isnt there. its only thing to continue spewing out the next iteration of capeshit but not many people are so retarded that you can just keep remaking the same shit over and over. theres only so many ways to show how much of a slutbag cleopatra was

>>81733504
There's only one Ridley Scott and he's quite busy. How many currently working directors can you name who can demand as much money and run as big of a production as him?

>>81734063
No, I'm asking for is full name.

>>81733504
everything is just a retarded CGI fest now

you don't get epics like you used to because its easier just to make some shitty CGI movie like the Ben Hur remake

not just that but Hollywood movies are starting to rely heavily on foreign markets like China, doubt they really care that much about Western historical movies

>>81733774

Ah yes, because historical accuracy mattered when they made Cleopatra, never mind anything related to Spartacus.

All the events where two giant lines of armies running at each other have already been done.

>egyptian queen
>white actor

wow hollywood was shit back then too!

>>81734084
it was just a general statement that there was a sharp decline of these types of movies after the 60s (right when liberalism started taking off)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_historical_period_drama_films_and_series

Hannibal when?

>>81734557
>implying Cleopatra wasn't a Ptolemy and was instead one of the few nig egyptian rulers

>>81734557
WE

Capeshit movies are the epics of america

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>>81733598
>>81733637
Sadly this is true, although there's a large population that enjoys the fuck out of history.

Why are no movies about old greek stories?
I mean there's no copyright there and the script is already done

>>81734557
not knowing that not all egyptians are nubians
not knowing that since alexander the great all the leaders from Egypt to India were greek

>>81734793


there was too much assfucking in ancient greece for it to be made into kino

like take Plato's Academia. These dudes would go there and have butt sex and then discuss 2deep4u shit

>>81733637
Sad but true

>>81733782
Yea this, batman is real you guys

elizabeth taylor is like reverse moanar, she never sees yopu anywhere in the room, all she sees is that scen from spicksodysea

>>81734897
Greek mythos truly has lots of of perverted and deranged sex yes but so does european cinema

>>81733774
>>81733822
there was a unneeded Ben Hur movie which bombed hard

>>81734648

Hopefully never. The man was a retard that only accomplished the fall of his entire people.

>>81734793
>tfw still no Odyssey movie with Sean Bean

>>81735084
Romans were much more degenerate than greeks.

>>81734557
They literally say in the movie she's from Macedonia and not a "true" Egyptian.

>>81735187
That's why I want to see it

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>>81733504
A girl told me I looked like Richard Burton

I didnt know who that was

Shes kinda right

>>81734641
WHO IS THAT NOONE GUY THAT'S WHAT I WANT TO KNOW!!!

>>81735504
oh dear. i meant no one. sorry for the mishap

>>81734854
>Not knowing how to greentext

>>81735409
CONGRATS

YOU LOOK LIKE A FAGGOT

TDKR made all future attempts at epics redundant.

It was the biggest film since the silent era.

>>81733658
flicks are not epics.

>>81734419
Not the same anon, but at least there weren't gods, monsters or crazy magic in those films. While they can't be called historical or accurate, they are still closer to reality than gods of egypt or some of the other shit hollywood shits out. I'm guessing that's what he meant with historical.

>>81736467
The kinda faggot young Elizabeth Taylor married and sucked and fucked...

who says it isnt , saw spartacus and ben hur couple days ago

>>81733504
too boring
too complex (history never has straight forward easy to understand narratives)
too difficult to adapt (needs to be "accurate" while still being entertaining while at the same time you have armchair history nerds who don't understand the idea of ideas and themes, composite characters and artistic liberties to convey an idea over irrelevant historical details despite never having read an actual peer reviewed journal on the subject)
if it's not ww2, civil war or vietnam americans dont care

>>81733504
Elizabeth Taylor is so meat and potatoes. Never found her interesting.

>>81734557
>>81734656
>>81734854
>Greeks
>white

No one ever asked us if we wanted to be. Only since white people wanted a buffer zone have we been counted as white. We weren't even allowed on whites only beaches where my family grew up. Fuck off,whitey.

>>81737205
cause you aren't greek, just a turk rapebaby

>>81733504
There was a epic revival after LoTR and Troy
But it died quickly

>>81733504
They don't get enough use out of the wardrobe and set departments to justify the expense, TV is more cost effective for period works.

>>81737854
Being cost effective is just another way of saying that tv shows look like cheap behind the scenes footage. I have never been able to watch tv because it looks so drab.

>>81733504
feminists wont allow this kind of film thats why

>>81733504
It's called a tv series. Like got or startrek.

>>81738116
why not

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>>81733504
>ywn protect his smile

>>81733504
Don't worry OP. Denis Villeneuve's Dune will make Epikino great again.

>>81738197
look at ops picture you fucking jew, thats why

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Shakespeare-kino needs to make a return too

>>81733598
That's not true. African Americans were kangz, they have a lot of history.

>>81736730
He had personality.

If it isn't sci-fi or capeshit it's "boring"

>>81733637
That explains all of the historical films coming out of the Middle East
Or all of those historical epics coming from Europe every year
Or all of those historical epics coming from Western Asia
Or all of those historical epics coming from Africa.

Aside from a few films that are made in China or Japan, there are no historically cultured civilizations that are producing historical epics, or at least making decent ones.

>>81733504
>Why aren't epics like Cleopatra or Spartacus a thing anymore?

Too expensive and no merchandising value

>>81738786
>Or all of those historical epics coming from Europe every year
There's quite a lot of them.

Majority of them are so terrible that they're not even worth naming.

>>81733705
''epic'' is as objective as the word ''good'' which means, not at all. those old movies were dogshit, which is why they arent making any of them anymore. thats it

>>81733598
>americans have no history
No we have history, most of us just don't care about it, or understand it.

>>81733598
Naw, i like to read history not have it filtered through (((hollywoods))) fish eye lens.

>>81733598
literally all colossals are hollywood production dumbass

>>81733839
just set it in ancient greece, those fuckers range from sandniggers to blond and blue eyed

Epic casting and practical sets/effects have been replaced with overcrowded and unartistic cgi.
Having a "bankable" star with overwhelming persona who is over-used is more important than portraying the character.

Tropes. Everything is the same scenewriting gags in different settings. The directors who are currently doing all the epics are known to make wall-to-wall trope-fests. Hopefully Dune will change that pattern.

Attention spans/ADD

If you want to see a decent epic that is fairly recent, be sure to check out Mongol (2008)

>>81733504
A big reason those movies sold were how fucking crazy in scope they were.

They wouldn't be considered that crazy anymore. People have seen it.

>>81733598
>americans have no history
>greatest revolution of all time is not history
>becoming the bastion of freedom in the west is not history

It's like you all shit on America because you're just jealous of how awesome we are

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>>81741719
>history
>greatest revolution of all time
>bastion of freedom

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>>81742188
>implicating it's not

>>81735187
But Carthage would have fallen without his campaign too.

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>>81733504
Try chinese wuxias.

>>81740548
>''epic'' is as objective as the word ''good'
If your talkin about memes maybe

>>81733504
I thought OP meant why don't we have these sort of grand people nowadays, and not just about movies.

>>81741719
>shit all over half the globe
>still no public healthcare
>entire political machine dysfunctional and in the pocket of corporations
>population almost as obese as mexico
>still think they are the best

Ameriburgers

>>81735217
i didn't know i wanted this.

>>81733504
hollywood is scared to touch anything big that doesnt already have a fan base (IE fast and furious, star wars, cape shit)
the industry is really up in the air right now and big cultural shifts are happening, theyre just trying to keep up enough to stabilize

wasnt the biggest flop in history was made in the 20s if im not mistaken ?

>>81743198
>>still no public healthcare
stopped reading there

>>81744055
The biggest flop in history is Cleopatra

>>81744178
Me too, these lazy europoors should just be banned from the internet.

>>81735409
You look hot

What was There will be blood if not an epic?

Lots of ignorance in this thread.
Censors were quite strict in those days, barring a lot of sexuality rrom movies because it was considered unwholesome.
(Hollywood) figured out a loophole by using biblacal or historic settings to allow more sexuality (it's historic goy) and scantily clad women.
Once those restrictions were loosen up, the genre was no longer needed as a cover.

>>81733598
Sadly this is true. American here. Had this happen while try to impress a girl
>watch Lawrence of Arabia
>what's the Great War anon?
>it was ww1 girl anon
>that came before ww2 right?
>lolwut
>don't look at me like I'm stupid
>huh?
>well if you go far back enough years start counting backwards...
>sit there still trying to tell if this chick is serious
>immediately lose interest in her entirely

>>81742188
>being this mad 240 years later

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>>81733637
>capeshit is literally generation y mythology

>>81742735

Erm, can you not post pictures of my waifu? Thanks.

>>81745632
>women playing dumb
>even smart women do this to get you to pay attention to them
Dont get too autistic

>>81745632
Jesus dude

>>81745632
>have an opportunity to elucidate something essential for a poor woman
>"lol wat a stupid bitch"

/tv/

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>>81741719
>greatest revolution of all time
>bastion of freedom
>awesome

>>81745826
literally more free than the rest of the world, which is really saying something considering how close to a police state we are now.

this is what a benevolent authoritarian government looks like in it's genesis.

>>81744178
>>81744582
>thinking Obamacare is public
Wew lad

Or do you mean Medicare that kicks in (maybe but maybe not) when you get old as fuck but doesn't cover most people anyway?

>>81746038
>old as fuck
>65

>>81745934
>literally more free
>has more people in jail both per capital and in raw numbers than any state in the world

Don't think so, Tim.

>>81743198
>>entire political machine dysfunctional and in the pocket of corporations

>being mad because people you don't like played the game better than the people you do like
sorry che but that's what you get in democracies

>>81746038
>zero reading comprehension
Typical yurocuck

>>81746119
65 is pretty old chief

>>81745934

You're actually the 23rd freest country.

https://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/human-freedom-index-files/human-freedom-index-2016.pdf

page 20-21

>>81733504
Because we now have to care what blacks and Asians want in movies, too.

>>81746160
Then what did you mean, americlap? People aren't psychic you know

>>81743198
>stil no public healthcare

Im a yuro myself ,but this is cringe

>>81746167
In the Islamic State I can purchase an AK and some hand grenades with my gold coins left over from buying a Yazidi sex slave.

And yet it's not even on the list. I call bullshit.

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>>81746127
>can walk down the street without getting mugged
>can open a bank or credit union account with little difficulty
>can travel between the contiguous states without a passport

need i go on

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>>81745934
>>81746127
>>81746167

>>81733504
Cleopatra was a massive financial flop. Big budget epics were a risk that stopped paying off around the mid-60's, and every recent attempt to bring the genre back has failed miserably (Exodus, BenHur, etc.)

>>81746403
Please, let's not compare these CGI clusterfucks to those movie. Literally made for illiterate indians.
The genre is doing ok on tv, as long as they focus on characters and sensible plots

>>81746398
23 aint bad for math nerd shit. this neglects some basic realities like again, being able to travel the entire width of the continent with only a state license or id card, and all the benefits that brings.

i like CATO but they are a little myopic sometimes

>>81746289
You aren't going to have any public healthcare either. Not after a generation of supporting those free-riding muds you love so much.

You fools laughed at us for generations, while also tut tutting about how racist we are. That's a very large crow you're going to fucking eat.

And guess who's going to be taking care of you in the nursing home. Barely-literate niggers with low impulse control. That's who.

>>81746580
Are you arguing for the EU Schengen treaty?

>>81746398
also

>freedom of association a perfect 10
yeah, no. not when people who provide an "essential service" are forced into providing said service for people they don't want to. that's literally the opposite of freedom of association.

>>81734557
cleopatra was european, famalam

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>>81746650
When it comes to policy I can only speak for USA

how the old world manages with with their tiny fucking feifdoms, I do not know and care not to meddle with it.

>>81733504
Because people are too stupid to care about history so they watch idiotic mind-numbing stuff like capeshit.

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Actual answer: They only existed to claw viewers back from television. It didn't work and so Hollywood went into a slump before being revived in the 70s.

One thing that pisses me off in those old history epics is that many of them are actually bible epics disguised as films about ancient rome or egypt

I was fan of ancient rome as kid and it was always huge disappointment when romans in the film where just props for bible tale. Felt like filmmakers weren't actually interested in rome at all, they just used it as setting.

>>81733504
Melodrama and epics are part of a different culture and generation. People don't want to sit through a 4 hour long film anymore. And melodrama is comical to western audiences now.

kingdom of heaven directors cut is a modern epic

>>81746966
It was a different time, anon

>>81733504
Millenials don't have the attention span for it.

>>81746666
Calm down Ben Shapiro
Nice quads

>>81747196
you know i'm right though.

i wonder how cato fucked that up, they are more autistic than me.

Yeah what a shame that modern audiences don't have the attention span for a fantasy epic spanning 8 or 9 seasons of extremely popular television on HBO.


Too bad nobody wants to watch a 9 hour long adaptation of Lord of the Rings or an eight film Harry Potter franchise.


A WWII epic recounting the real life stories of American soldiers in Easy company would be a sure failure. Obviously nobody's interested in WWII anymore. Uncultured swine.


Seriously though, OP, you're just completely wrong on this one. Movie runtimes past 3 hours have become totally acceptable in the last decade, and film franchises are much more likely to be a pre-planned trilogy (or more) instead of one successful movie followed by some tacked on cash grab. Movie and TV epics are incredibly in vogue right now. retard.

>>81747381
I think trying to quantify things like this is pointless. And I do agree with the argument you posed. Just to be devils advocate though: where is the line between discrimination and a business having the liberty to refuse service? Ben uses the cake shop being forced to sell cakes for a gay wedding as an example of what you're talking about. does the free market sort this type of thing out effectively?

>>81747487
he was obviously referring to sword and sandal epics, not just large franchises in general.

and it's because it's not relevant to people. MCU is the mythology of the modern person. Spartacus is old news; Captain America is the modern Hercules.

>>81741719
>America
>bastion of freedom

oh shit nigger its too late in the night to be laughing this hard

>>81747554
>Go to cake shop
>"Hey can you cater my big gay wedding"
>"no fuk queers"
>"ok asshole"
>Go to another shop
>"Hey can you cater my big gay wedding"
>"Yes"

wow, problem solved.

seriously, caterers are a dime a dozen and with their massive turnover, i don't see a lot of them turning business away. this was an isolated case and they have every right to say no.

>>81747080

it was hollywoods fault, italians made a history epic about rome and carthage in 2014

Real answer: cant get away with whitewashing anymore but dont want to greenlight a $100+ million history flick with nonwhite stars

>>81747744

loool I meant to say 1914!!

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>>81747554
>>81747695
And to answer your question, I'm not saying it's not discrimination. It absolutely is. Discriminating is literally a basic thing all humans do. We have a plethora in choices in everything, including who we do business with.

In Jim Crow America, discrimination was a problem. Not so much today. We don't need anti-discrimination laws. They are actively eroding, not improving liberty at this point.

What makes modern films with big battles and large environments and shit not epics?

>>81733504

>Who is Ridley Scott

>>81747695
It's not about the cake, it's the idea that you can be actively discriminated against. It's a confusing issue, on the one hand you can't be forced to provide a service that's "slavery " as Ben calls it, on the other hand you can actively discriminate against people.

>>81747946
The only confusion arises because people think that everyone has a right to service. It's because we forget it's other humans with their own desires providing the service.

It's a systematic problem with service in America. In our desire for automation, we treat the help like robots before they're even replaced with mechanical substitutes. Eventually most service probably will be provided by impartial robots, and the world will be better for it. But if you force someone to do something for someone else, and they don't want to do it. Then you're discriminating against that person, if nothing else.

The only moral thing is to give people agency to associate with who they will. Public accessibility laws have gotten way out of hand, and they suggest that in their absence we would all be bitter tribal pricks who refuse to trade with one another, which is a laughable notion at best.

There will always be those people, but they should not be the ones we make policy around.

>>81733504
the 50's epic informed the 80's blockbuster, a concept which almost 99% of films are built on and strive for

they arent a thing because times change, and they are now part of the thing at a very granular level, so widespread as to be almost indistinguishable from background noise

>>81748110
It's less about the perceived right of service and more about the act of discrimination. I'm not mad I don't get a cake, I'm mad you won't give me a cake because I'm gay (black, Asian, Jewish, white, Christian, Muslim etc). There is no way the government can solve this, it hs to be the free market; I'll just take my money elsewhere

>>81733598
Americans have a history, and proud one at that, but the American school system doesn't teach it very effectively, and American culture has been steered away from caring about it by a number of forces, the biggest being that there is simply no monetary incentive to teach or to know about historical topics.

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>>81733504
Get into Philip Mackie dramas.

Here's Rome in 14 A.D. as Emperor Augustus was dying...
https://youtu.be/B7HHrkoac0o

>>81748307
What? Everyone takes US history at least once in high school. It's not all slavery and ww2 you know

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https://youtu.be/sQ-sPXgSWCs

Gladiator was a success but Gangs Of New a York was a critical and commercial failure. Actually both failed to convince creatively as well. Since then there hasn't been many attempts at historical dramas because Spider-Man jump started the superhero trend in a big way.

>There's no Zanuck around anymore to run Hollywood

>>81748505
Most students don't pay close attention in that class, and after they get through the class they will basically never encounter history as a subject again unless they go looking for it. They forget it the same way they forget high school math and chemistry

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>>81747612
>Captain America is the modern Hercules.

>>81748505
in my HS it was literally the indians and early pioneers in elementary school; a weird interpretation of the industrial revolution as terrible, the depression, ww2 and the 60 gorillion. that's pretty much it

it's not comprehensive and they really gloss over the founding on the country. also basically no political theory whatsoever, it's an elective if anything

>>81748711
Lol Because you didn't go to college and forgot everything you learned in high school?

>>81747752
>whitewashing
>cleopatra and spartacus
If anything, they'll feel compelled to add muuuh non-historic diversity

>>81747554

Freedom of association should be 100%, including racial discrimination.

>>81750955
Drawing a penis on a cake doesn't necessarily fall under that banner, but I get you.

>>81733598
WHY DOES AMERICA MAKE EVERYONE SO ANGRY HAHA

>>81751041
>le penis cake
i'm too lazy to google it again but this is bullshit iirc

the guy just didn't want to cater a gay wedding, because he thinks gay marriage is wrong. full stop.

hope the SC takes this up, gore such is the man

>>81747080
No excuse. It wasn't the 1930s anymore, Jews definitely controlled Hollywood and shouldn't have been promoting Christian mythology.

>>81751606
>christian mythology
anon... jesus. the old testament is essentially the same shit as the jew bible.

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Best Marc Antony
Best Cleopatra

>>81733504
Wasn't cleopatra a giant bomb that pretty much killed the genre?

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>>81751864
it took 171 replies to someone to post best cleopatra, bravo good sir

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>>81751864
You will not be disappointed. My queen is a skilled lover.

>>81752122

>When your sister is plotting to kill you and take everything you own, but she also your wife and is crazy in bed

>>81751864
>>81752122
>>81752147
god shes so fucking hot

>>81752162
she fucked her brother?

Do you really think anyone's watching a 4 hour movie anymore?

>>81752409
Apparently close to the irl cleopatra aswell. She was attractive but wasn't typically stunning but her charisma and charm made her a 10/10

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>>81752409
i know, her tiny little tits and petite body. jesus christ. i would sire many princes, and i've had a vasectomy.