Continued LotR discussion from >>81726850 Why didn't

>>81730176
Why would he?

Someone explain to me who this Tom Bombadil fellow is and why he's so strong.

>>81730195
This is all you need to know
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZouiWmzWoY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZouiWmzWoY

wouldnt that have made a great movie?

>>81730195
nobody knows, tolkien left it deliberately vague because he liked the mystery of it

there are dozens and dozens of completely retarded headcanons, however.

>>81730214
>>81730220

kek
Safety-mind

>>81730176
Tom isn't capable of destroying the Ring. Why would he be?

>>81730236
Isn't he the first living "human" in middle earth? Iirc Elrond called him "the oldest" or something like that

>>81730261
I think OP means, "why didn't he just take it to Mt. Doom instead of Frodo." He did demonstrate that the ring had absolutely no power over him.

>>81730236
He is nature personified

Why didn't they give the ring to talion, he was connected to the fucker that made it, they could figure the shit out

>make your own magic ring
>become a master of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
>kill yourself
>go to the same spirit realm as Sauron
>kill his spirit using BJJ
>return to middle earth
>be king of the universe

>>81730279
he came before Men and Elves, which suggests he's possibly one of the Ainur. There's no where else in Tolkien's cosmology where he would fit, but it's never explicitly said that he is one.

>>81730321
that is certainly one of the less retarded theories, yes

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Would you get seduced?

>>81730236
I like the he's a mind wiped morgoth theory

>>81730354
i'd thrust my "finger" into his "one ring" if you're picking up what i'm putting down

>>81730279
>>81730236
>>81730279
Elrong called him the oldest and fatherless. If oldest wasn't enough, the "fatherless" should tip you off that it's Eru (having no father in this case means he was not created by anyone, which means he is the creator).

>>81730390
>the "fatherless"
elrond was actually suggesting that Tom is black

>>81730194
this

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>>81730443
These threads are golden

>>81730176
Because he was gay and would've used it as a Prince Albert instead of throwing it into Mount Doom.

>>81730390
Tom isn't the creator. Like this anon said >>81730321, Tom is sort of the personification of middle-Earth which is why the Ring doesn't have power over him. But that doesn't mean Tom could overpower Sauron.

>>81730176
Name 11 more Reddit LotR characters

>>81730524
Being this much of a plebiscite

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why didnt the ewoks fly the ring to hogwarts?

Tom is basically the planet, he doesn't give a shit about what's happening, he just is there.

Even if Sauron wins it would make no difference to him, and million years later some other shit will happen and Sauron will fall but Bombadil still won't give a shit.

>>81730176
What was the point of Tom Bombadil? It's like some bad filler saga in a cartoon. If they had him appear in the movie I think it would have not worked unless he helps the fellowship at the end of the first movie... Btw, was Tolkien a pothead?

>>81730176
because he is buissy fucking his 10/10 nymph girlfriend 24/7 while singing nonsensical shit like the drunk autist he is.
It's like he's some sort of NEET discoverying some irl magic cheat code

What was Aragorns tax policy ?

>>81730321
>>81730350
>>81730503
I always thought this theory was add odds with Tolkien's writing about Morgoth's ring.

>>81730609
>“Tom Bombadil is not an important person—to the narrative. I suppose he has some importance as a ‘comment’… [H]e represents something that I felt important, though I would not be prepared to analyze the feeling precisely. I would not, however, have left him in, if he did not have some kind of function. I might put it this way. The story is cast in terms of a good side, and a bad side, beauty against ruthless ugliness, tyranny against kingship, moderated freedom with consent against compulsion that has long lost any object save mere power, and so on; but both sides in some degree, conservative or destructive, want a measure of control. But if you have taken ‘a vow of poverty,’ renounced control, and take your delight in things for themselves without reference to yourself, watching, observing, and to some extent knowing, then the question of the rights and wrongs of power and control might become utterly meaningless to you, and the means of power quite valueless. It is a natural pacifist view, which always arises in the mind when there is a war. But the view of Rivendell seems to be that it is an excellent thing to have represented, but that there are in fact things with which it cannot cope; and upon which its existence nonetheless depends. Ultimately only the victory of the West will allow Bombadil to continue, or even to survive. Nothing would be left for him in the world of Sauron… He is … Botany and Zoology (as sciences) and Poetry as opposed to Cattle-breeding and Agriculture and practicality.” (Letters 179)

You're a pleb who simply didn't get it

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>been possessed for decades
>curse is lifted
>he is strong enough to go to wage a war few weeks later
lmao

When not worn, does the ring have any effect on the outside world besides people? Like if it's buried underground does it change the probability of it being dug up?

>>81730697
His chapters also have some of the best passages:

>There were fortresses on the heights. Kings of little kingdoms fought together, and the young Sun shone like fire on the red metal of their new and greedy swords. There was victory and defeat; and towers fell, fortresses were burned, and flames went up into the sky. Gold was piled on the biers of dead kings and queens; and mounds covered them, and the stone doors were shut; and the grass grew over all.

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>>81730176

>>81730769
there it is

>>81730279
No. Humans woke up after the elves, Bombadil predates the Children of Eru waking.

>>81730736
Yes. It wants to be found. The Hobbits have an inherent resistance to magic anyway but their innocence and simple lifestyle meant the ring didn't really have much hold over them. Bilbo has the ring, right, but all Hobbits want is a cosy room, friends, family and food. He already had that. The Ring couldn't trick him into chancing his luck and getting, I dunno, an Empire or a Crown which would ultimately end up with him dying or losing the ring to an Orc or something who'd take it to Mordor.

Even if the Ring was somehow, theoretically, locked away forever. Sauron would eventually take over the world without the ring, it'd just take longer. Even if the Elves were safe, their fugue would eventually make them all leave.

Bombadil was intentionally left vague in many aspects but we are given a semblance of his power (even though power levels do not work in Tolkien literature).
When they are gathered in the council of Elrond one of the possibilities discussed is leaving the ring with Bombadil instead of destroying it, but they realize then that eventually Sauron would find out where the ring is and go up against Bombadil, when everything else is destroyed, and then even Bombadil would be defeated.

>>81730646
>dawn found her shitttin' guts out m8

>>81730982
>When they caught his words again they found that he had now wandered into strange regions beyond their memory and beyond their waking thought, into times when the world was wider, and the seas flowed straight to the western Shore; and still on and back Tom went singing out into ancient starlight, when only the Elf-sires were awake.

>>81730609
No. Tolkien smoked tobacco pipes a lot. This was pre-knowledge about cancer. He was not a druggie. He did not advocate drug use in any writing or interview. The problem is that LotR got popular in the 60's and that's when druggie hippie thought that pipeweed was a reference to weed when it was just tobacco.

>>81730982
Well I think I should have said "humanoid" then because elves look human too, right? I didn't mean he was a Man, who came into being after elves

>>81731098
This literally tells us that Bombadil was alive when Arda was flat, after the Lamps and probably after the Trees but before the Sun and the Moon. Since he is differentiated from the Elves this narrows it down to Maia, Valar, or a creation of Melkor.

But the truth is he's just Tolkien's self insertion and probably how he would live if he were in Middle-Earth, alone with his wife in an enchanted forest.

>>81730214
kek, might play B4ME2 in a bit

>>81731163
Aren't men and elves technically the same thing? They're able to produce fertile offspring together so...

>>81731163
It's futile to categorize him because he's something else altogether. And since power levels are not a thing in Tolkien one can't go around saying Bombadil could beat this Valar or that Maia because that's just not how it works. There are no certainties regarding Bombadil, save that he is either Eru, or something less powerful than Eru.

>>81730609
why couldn't they have just had it same as in the book?
the hobbits bump into him in the old forest before bree, he saves them from an ent and takes them back to his house.

>>81731218
Pretty much, yeah. I just love posting sections from In the House of Tom Bombadil.

>He then told them many remarkable stories, sometimes half as if speaking to himself, sometimes looking at them suddenly with a bright blue eye under his deep brows. Often his voice would turn to song, and he would get out of his chair and dance about. He told them tales of bees and flowers, the ways of trees, and the strange creatures of the Forest, about the evil things and good things, things friendly and things unfriendly, cruel things and kind things, and secrets hidden under brambles.

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Why didn't they send the Ring to Aule? He could have destroyed it easily.

What is Goldberry? The rivers personified? I can see why they were left out of the movies tbqh.

>This all powerful ring is really corruptible
>Btw this random hermit doesn't care about the ring lol

>>81731235
They're not the same though they are technically related because they are both Eru's children. Also they can fuck each other and have offspring, but they're different races.

Tom Bombadil is Melkor

>>81731296
It's an amazing chapter and it sucks that people often skip it because "hurr it wasn't in the movie therefore it's not a necessary"

>>81731301
Aule would tell them to fuck off

>>81730341
Shadow of Mordor is total fanfiction

Talion doesn't exist

>>81731048
Bombadil said to have the power over matter. That he had the ability to make all beasts obey him. That the rocks and trees would part way for him if he so chose to walk that way. He didn't give a shit. Goldberry was more of an interesting character. I liked the theory that Bombadil represented 'earth' and Goldberry represented 'water'. So Bombadil did trees, rocks, plants and animals, all that shit. While Goldberry did water, fish and so on.

In the grand scale of things, it doesn't matter. Tom was basically a deus ex machina to save the Hobbits from peril and provide them with weapons capable of killing Barrow Wights.

>>81731144
Having lived in the early 1900's and having experienced ww1, I'm sure went on a morphine binge and dreamt all this shit up

>>81731301
Because the Valar are fucking pussies save Tulkas and they've been fucking up since the beginning of Creation, and they don't want anything to do with Middle-Earth after their last battle, since their very presence fucked up the entire continent and sunk half of it into the sea.

Tbh the only based Valar are Tulkas, Aule, and Ulmo.

>>81731305
Water. Specifically the purest and clearest of water. But she is basically Tolkien's waifu insert and Bombadil is his own.

>>81731218
Bombadil himself mentions that he remembers the time under the stars before Melkor came to Arda, so that makes him even older than the Lamps.

>>81731265
I'm not talking about power levels. Of course you can categorize him. Does he look like an ent? No. Does he look like a dog? No. Does he look like a man or an elf? YES

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A black friend once told me LOTR is a movie about showing the white man's last stand.

Is this true /tv/?

>>81731352
all I know about the LOTR lore is from SoM

>>81731352
Wrong. Christopher Tolkien holds the IP rights and he added it to canon. Tough shit. If you want to do the same as with Frank Herbert dune and his sons and how they're totally different but not really, then do so. But in terms of canon in the Tolkienverse, it's canon.

Got a problem? Take it up with the Tolkien Estate.

>>81731356
The Bombadil chapters are their first real adventure before truly leaving the Shire behind. They also give you a brief history of the ancient Northern kingdoms. That's what I love about Tolkien's writing. There's a sense of a deeper more ancient history behind everything.

>>81731448
That's rough.

>>81731467
people WILL fall for this, but I won't allow it

>>81731467
who cares about corporate bullshit. Tolkien didnt write it = it's fanfiction. its that easy

>>81731436
You can't categorize him. There are beings in this world that can take whatever shape they want, or no shape at all, so the "does he look like x" argument doesn't work. There is no race pertaining Bombadil, and a very vague timeline. You'll never be able to say "Bombadil is X race" because Tolkien is dead and he'll never expand on the matter, and the information he left us is insufficient.

>>81731398
>Aule
>Not responsible for as much bullshit in middle earth as Melkor
Aule is the phantom menace.

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Childhood is idolizing Legolas
Adulthood made me realize Théoden is actually the most based and badass of them all.

>>81731442
No that doesn't really make sense.

>>81731497
Everything concerning Arnor is fascinating and IMO the fact that it's so vaguely referenced in LOTR makes it more fascinating still.

>>81731442
obviously
haven't you read the books or watched the movies?

>>81731547
Who the fuck idolized Legolas lol

>>81731448
It's a headfuck to try and get around and only autists can manage it. Seriously, you got places which are known by multiple names and hundreds of people. Tolkien is so praised because the detail he put into this setting, I mean Warhammer has copied so much from it but that's been done by dozens of guys over 30 years. Tolkien managed to do all this shit on his own.

The films are great but sadly miss so much. I had hoped they'd do the Siege of Lotholorien but they didn't. I heard they're doing the Scouring of the Shire in the 25th Anniversary Edition of LOTR but might be bollocks. Since CGI can be used to replaced dead people, who knows.

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>>81731547
This

>>81731583
Kids who think guy who does action good is the bestes

>>81731596
>I heard they're doing the Scouring of the Shire in the 25th Anniversary Edition of LOTR
Absolute nonsense

>>81731510
Nothing to fall for. Christopher Tolkien says it's canon, so it's canon. Again, if you want to consider it fanfiction, you can, it doesn't make it so. Just like the new Dune books are part of the Dune setting. It didn't just end with Frank.

>>81731519
And you're able to do that, in terms of the OFFICIAL announcement, it's canon. Again, see above.

>>81731540
Aule is based as fuck
>Father of science and craft
>teaches the elves and by extension men the foundations of all sciences
>badass fucking smith
>creates the Dwarves, because fuck Eru being the only one able to create life
>sexy thicc nature-loving wife
>was interested in similar shit as Melkor but instead of being a whinny envious bitch, shared everything he created and discovered and was selfless in his craft

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Adulthood is realising Saruman is a more interesting villain than Sauron

>>81730697
That makes it clear why he was included but not what he is.

Altough it would appear he was not an all powerful being like fanboys think.

>>81731364
>Having lived in the early 1900's and having experienced ww1, I'm sure went on a morphine binge and dreamt all this shit up

he fought in the trenches, his battalion fought at the somme, and a few of his closest friends died. if he wasn't doped up to his eyeballs after all that shit then he was definitely a stronger man than I would've been

>>81731522
I'm just saying he has the physical features of a humanoid and he interacts with hobbits and men... as fat as I can tell he has always existed in this humanoid form. I'm not trying to tullu explain what he is but his physical appearance is a part of it

>>81731448
Its all wrong, celebrimbor didn't make the ring either

>>81730176

I thought I remember reading somewhere that NO ONE, no matter how evil or badass you were, would go into that giant spider cave.

What if you used some of Gollum's tricks to sneak in there and hide it?

Would the spider ever notice it? It seemed more concerned with killing and eating.

The ring could sit under a pile of rocks for centuries

>>81731640
>Nothing to fall for. Christopher Tolkien says it's canon, so it's canon
Christopher Tolkien has never spoken about Shadow of Mordor

Provide a source fuckwit

>>81731613
How so? How many editions of Star Wars OT did we get? I mean we're getting ANOTHER deleted scene where the commanders talk about the Emperor. So who's to say they didn't

https://atolkienistperspective.wordpress.com/2014/08/05/the-middle-earth-box-set-ultimate-edition-speculations/

>There is 20 hours of material
>There is lots of potential uses for it

It's possible the scene or other scenes, are in there.

>>81731673
That's because we see his fall from grace unravel, whereas Sauron's happened some eras prior to that

>>81731673
He relly isnt. Sauron is more sympathetic

>>81731640
We know you're full of shit, anon.

>>81731467
Weak b8

>>81731715
Hiding the Ring doesn't invalidate Sauron's power growing

His armies would have wiped out Middle Earth

It wasn't a question whether to hide or destroy the Ring, it HAD to be destroyed

>>81731716
Kek, this. Christopher Tolkien is now a 92 year old man. He has no idea what Shadow of Mordor is.

>>81731717
The Scouring of the Shire was never filmed

It was a never a part of the script, it wasn't considered for adaptation because it would add 30 minutes to an already 4 hour film

Extended Edition would be bordering on 5 hours

It simply wouldn't work on screen, you go through three movies and that massive climax and then the Hobbits get home, oh great Saruman has taken it over

It's a massive anti-climax

And they already killed off Saruman and Grima at Isengard

>>81731715
Yes the spider would notice it. The spiders have incredibly interesting lore and nobody knows where the fuck they came from. The original one, Ungoliant, is some sort of eldritch abomination that might have come from space and was at one point so powerful that Melkor, the most powerful being barring God, was afraid of her.

Since the ring was indestructible save for Mount Doom, that big ass spider in LOTR might have eaten it and gained some power, but eventually Sauron would notice and fuck her up.

>>81731596
Its not that hard, really its only three books and one of them is a kids book, even counting the unfinished tales and children of Hurin its not that much compared to some series, you just dumb

>>81731799
BUT I WANT THE FUCKING SEED TO BE PUT TO GOOD USE.

who gets the rights after christopher finally kicks the bucket/sails to the uttermost west? I appreciate all the work he's put in protecting his father's legacy but I would like to see a Silmarillion TV series, which will NEVER EVER happen while he's alive

>>81731442
>the white man wins against the dark hordes because the king nigger is destroyed by the actions of a busted old whitey he sold crack (the ring) to

Actions have consequences

>>81731828
The Silmarillion is a pretty challenging read though.

>>81731813
Is that why tulkas made morgoth his bitch?

>>81731832
The Silmarillion will enter the public domain 75 years after Christopher dies

>>81731860
If you're a sub 60 IQ degenerate; sure

>>81731832
He has sons.

>>81731860
True, its best read in segments especially first time

>>81731883
No it remains with the Tolkien estate and whoever Chris nominates to take over, probably one of his sons

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Watching the behind the scenes of Lord of the Rings just shows how fucking BASED Viggo Mortensen actually is

>>81731828
>reading the books and remembering every single fucking person, their history, their lineage, their actions and everything is so e-z fucking lol im not an autist i swear

Lmao! Yeah because everybody remembers Elladan and Elrohir. Or know that Aragorn's ancestor was Arvedui who fucked Firiel like 5 generations ago.

Fuck off son.

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>>81730646
>high taxes
but
>double rations

>>81731927
WRONG. UK law states it becomes public domain. it's to stop this kind of bullshittery.

>>81731863
Powers are manifested differently. Tulkas' power was beating the ever loving shit out of gods but he did not have much power when it came to creating shit, or being deceptive, or sly. Melkor couldn't fist fight Tulkas because he would get rekt, but when he attacked Valinor with Ungoliant he fucked the Valar up 2v8 and Tulkas was useless because he was all brawn and no brains.

>>81731927
https://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyright/p10_duration

>>81731884
Oh. You're one of those posters. Forgive me. I forgot /vpol/ invaded this board.

>>81731938
He is completely autistic, but in a good way.

>>81731949
You don't NEED to remember those characters though. They're there because Tolkien was an autist over genealogical science and family trees and he gave every single descendant from Elendil to Aragorn a fucking name. That does not mean they're important to the story.

>>81732060
That's what I said, didn't I? I was telling it to that guy who said he only knew about lore from the video game. I never said 'don't read the book it's a clusterfuck' I said 'don't go into the lore it's a clusterfuck'. It is. The books are fine, though my father who has a 154IQ couldn't manage reading it.

>>81731883
>The Silmarillion will enter the public domain 75 years after Christopher dies

so 2092 at the absolute earliest? fuck

>>81731949
I think I could memorize the appendices of LoTR (which contains all you need to know about ME really) in a few months and complete a quiz with 26 % accuracy

>>81732118
>don't go into the lore it's a clusterfuck
But you're wrong
>my father who has a 154IQ couldn't manage reading it
Your daddy's been lying to you all these years

>>81732130
And by then Disney will have their dirty hands on it and prevent it from going into the public domain indefinitely while they shit out one movie every 6 months about it

>>81731673
saruman is some faggot in a rainbow robe.

>>81732144
Then you didn't memorize shit

>>81732181
Sauron is some faggot jeweler

>>81732173
the force of tolkien's anger would raise him from the dead and lead the ghostly army of his old WW1 battalion to crush Disney

>>81732215
sauron is a jew? that makes sense

>>81732130
It's 70 years after the AUTHOR dies. So 2043.

>>81732206
Yep, you think you have everything memorized but you actually don't

>>81731953
The people love you sire!

>>81730769
Nope, his power maintain in the forest, maybe back then when the forest was linked with fangorn and women ents but now Tom has just a little forest to exerce his power.

>>81732477
This. Bombadil's domain was the Old Forest. He wasn't capable of taking on Sauron.

>>81731218
>This literally tells us that Bombadil was alive when Arda was flat
Shit... So were the elves. Eru didn't break the world until the second age when numenor sailed for Aman.
In the tolkien universe only babyfigs dont remember a flat earth.

>>81731645
>Teaches feanor how to craft
>Sauron an Saruman both his top apprentices
>Makes dwarves
Fuck Aule.

>>81731715
She didn't eat Gollum because hes a shit meal, and he promised to bring her treats, like fat juicy hobbitses.
And the Orcs had a door that led into the cave and they patrolled some of the tunnels. Sam sits outside the door with the ring on trying to figure out how to get past.

>>81731218
hes not a valar nor a creation of melkor, those would have been listed in the simarillion

hes just the spirit of the local nature manifested

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Because he was stuck in a horrible unrealistic series.

Why do you waste your time with childish banalities when Based Fatman put tolkien to rest not that long ago?

Take it away, George:

>Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?

>The war that Tolkien wrote about was a war for the fate of civilization and the future of humanity, and that’s become the template. I’m not sure that it’s a good template, though. The Tolkien model led generations of fantasy writers to produce these endless series of dark lords and their evil minions who are all very ugly and wear black clothes. But the vast majority of wars throughout history are not like that.

>>81731884
Nah. Its very dense and dry with weird names that all sound alike that are mentioned once and not brought up again for 100 pages (seriously fuck feanor's entire family). Even that place names are weird because most of them dont exist by the third age where the majority of the saga takes place.
I love the silmarillion, but its not entry level tolkien.

>>81732811
>hey, actual war veteran, that's not how war works!
>t. obese draft dodger

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>>81732875

>B-B-But muh Battle of the Somme

>>81731860
when i was younger i had a guide book that listed everyone by alphabet and what they are and where they came from etc

it was a major help, it even had some pretty pictures

>>81732904
I need to look into that. I seriously had to take notes when I read it, like I was studying for a class.

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This game was fucking great

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>Throw it really hard into space
>floats in vacuum for eternity

Solved.

I'm thinking of finally reading the books after all this time
Do you guys think the books will still be interesting even after i saw the movies hundreds of times?
Also, i'm not really a book person desu i've only read a couple of novels in my lifetime

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Lee was the perfect

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdhpA2yPu1w

>>81733137
All LOTR games are essential comfy-core desu.

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>>81733180
You will rediscover and discover so much things with the books, its totally worth it!

Buy the red book edition with original drawings and such.

Also buy silmarilion and the others.

DO it anon , for gondor !

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>>81733137
MOVE OUT THE FUCKING WAY

>>81730279
Fangorn was also called the eldest, which contradicts what elrond said. However when you add weight to Gandalf wanting to go chat with him and the discussion about him at Rivendell, I think that its safe to say he was the first to ME, and older than Treebeard. He's not human or an elf so he must be some lesser Ainur. The part of eru that wanted to escape from the rest of the world and just live quitely in his own bubble

>>81730390
There are also many creatures that were "fatherless", elves, dwarves, humans etc. That doesn't make them Eru

>>81733246
best game ever. was top10 in the ladder back then. everyone will fall before Isengard.

>>81733180
Give it a try anon
Personally LoTR was the first fantasy book I ever read and I loved it instantly

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>>81733137
>>81733246
Fuck i miss being a kid again

>>81731301
Destroying the ring wasn't going to wipe out the 200k orcs in Mordor though, nor the balrog

why didnt the balrog try to take the ring?

>>81732875
This. That tub of lard can go fuck himself. No one should take pride in referring to him as the American Tolkien.

>>81733429
Lost and stuck in those ancient cavern melkor and his creations built.

>>81733180
it'll be a chore

>>81733454
>the American Tolkien
is he actually called that? Holy shit if he is

could dumbledoor defeat sauron?

>>81733246
I only ever had the second one and its expansion.
>GET ANOTHER BUILDER
>WE'VE GOT THINGS TO DO
>WE'VE PUT UP A HARADRIM PALACE

>>81733602
the first one was pure domination and thus faster and not a pure rts. In my opinion best lotr game ever

>>81733595
Don't forget, Sauron has a 100,000+ strong army at his back, I don't think he'd win against it.

1v1 Sauron isn't that strong, and I just don't know how that singing magic goes against a 1 hit kill spell. In the end, Dumbledore would win. He'd defeat, but probably couldn't kill him

>>81732811
Literally everything GRRM has to say is invalid because he's a fat, lazy neckbeard.

>>81733710
you are delusional. sauron is more like a demigod and would break dumbledore with ease

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why did the valar only sent 5 wizards? cant they send more?

also what ever happened to the 2 other that were never mentioned in the movie?

>>81733595
No. Sauron would look him in the eye and he'd collapse in terror

>>81733777
Went to the North and far west.

One took the saruman way and the other is dead, they had other things to fix, not only midle earth has problems.

>>81733777
All I know is Radagast was completely useless

>>81733777
Pretty sure they started up orcish scientology and then died

>>81731144
I don't think this is entirely true desu.

Saruman clearly says to Gandalf in FOTR that "your love of the halflings leaf has clouded your mind" or something

He's clearly not talking about tobacco.

In conjunction with the fact a wizard is essentially a pipe smoking shaman with superpowers , it's not inconceivable that it would have some properties

We also learn kingsfoil as a separate herb, has healing properties later (even though you don't smoke it)

Also the general perception of Radagast is that of a competent, functioning (although bumbling) stoner.

>>81733875
Gandalf escaped Orthanc thanks to Radagast.

>>81733747
Sauron isn't that strong 1v1. He's a manipulator and deciever, not a warrior. Meanwhile Dumbledore has a variety of magic spells at his disposal that are simply to strong compared to the magic in tolkiens universe.

His power stems from his army and leadership not because he could solo the rest of ME 1 by 1.

>>81733915
Saruman had fooled him into finding Gandalf and sending him there. Yes, he acted in good faith and he actually kept his word to Gandalf and sent the eagles to orthanc that rescued him but that about it. After that he just disappeared and did nothing as far as we know.

>>81733710
>1v1 Sauron isn't that strong

it took both Elendil and Gilgalad to stop him, and they both died as well. Elendil was known as the best warrior-king the dunedain ever had---he was like a super-aragorn. And Gilgalad was an elven king from the undying lands who had faced morgorth and balrogs before.

>>81733898
>Also the general perception of Radagast is that of a competent, functioning (although bumbling) stoner.

Only in that atrocious movie, you fucking waste of oxygen.

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why are nazguls so useless? I mean just look in the fellowship
>cant catch some hobbits
>get outrun by some white horse 1vs9
>get flushed down the river
>great entry on a flying beast: get shot down on the first encounter by legolas

>>81732811
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmKhGqWcJGY

>>81733898
>Saruman clearly says to Gandalf in FOTR that "your love of the halflings leaf has clouded your mind" or something
Not in the books retard

>>81734221
because it's a fucking made up story filled with shitty clichés

but an idiot who actually asks this wouldn't know

>>81731938
All jacksons bts stuff is doc level kino. Sean astin did a film for school i think that was included in the fellowship.

>>81734071
>And Gilgalad was an elven king from the undying lands who had faced morgorth and balrogs before.

No, Gil-galad was hid away for the most part and didn't contribute much to the first age. He wouldn't have faced morgoth or balrogs and he wasn't even from the undying lands but ME.

>dunedain
This may be me being autismo, but Elendil was a numenorean.

It doesn't matter regardless. If both those charged dumbledore, they'd be gone in seconds. Same with Sauron, same with any other maiar really.

Its just the universe power levels. All Dumbledore has to do is point and think and they're all dead. Its just how it is when you compare universes, and its not a reflection of how strong in universe someone is.

Even in universe, Eonwe would wipe the floor with Sauron.

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>>81734360

>>81734191
>movie Radagast
Bless Sly McCoy but jesus christ it was horrifying

>>81733145
If i were talented id make a one ring floatin into space with shootin stars playin n the backround. How does one into shit like that?

>>81733898
Saruman doesn't say that in the book, and Radagast is not nearly as derpy.

And kingsfoil is a healing herb, so what? There are many, many plants in the world with medicinal properties that have nothing to do with altering your state of mind.

In other words, you're an idiot.

>>81734071
You're right about Elendil, after all he was a numenorean, basically a super-man, though there were stronger numenoreans before him. But Gil-galad was just the last prince of the Noldor, born in Middle Earth, and far weaker than the Elvenlords of the 1st Age.

Sauron was a little bitch when it came to physical fighting, still.

>>81734221
>get outrun 1v9
Are you under the impression that being in a group makes you go faster?

>>81730194
>Tolkein never wrote a version where Tom Bombadil stole the ring and became a horrible but jolly tyrant

>>81733180
Start with the hobbit. Its literally a childrens book, and a quick read. Its a good place to ease into the waters of tolkien's universe.
Don't make the classic mistake of reading the forward or into. Almost everyone does that and drops them before the story even starts.
Lord of the rings is a little slow to pick up at first, you won't appreciate the comfiness of the early chapters until future re-reads.
Just stick with it. It has a lot that can appeal to multiple audiences.
Do you like world building and deepest lore? Check!
Do you like epic battles? Check!
Do you like adventure stories? Check!
Lord of the Rings and Dune both set exceptionally high bars for their genres.
The Silmarillion is great, but you're going to want to put it aside until you've read through the series once or twice. Not that it isn't great, but its more like an expanded appendix than a singular story. Probably because the book starts with the creation of the universe, the uncounted years between then and when the elves wake up, which is when the notion of timekeeping is even introduced, and then covers several thousand more years of history.

>>81733875
Radagast was sent by yavannah to look after the animals and nature in middle earth. Gandalf and Saruman were supposed to help the elves and men in the west, respectively. The blue wizards went behind enemy lines in the east to subvert Sauron's power base in the far east.
Saruman became proud and corrupted and Gandalf picked up the slack.

Reading through the books for the first time right now, I just finished the Two Towers.

I really like how the narrative was split into two parts.
1) A direct continuation from Fellowship, following the boiz all the way through the sacking of Isengard
2) Taking a step back, explaining how Frodo and Sam are doing on their journey, and culminating in ALL THAT SUSPENSE

I like this narrative style so much more than what the films did. Why did Jackson choose to interweave both perspectives at once? It doesnt have the same pacing imo

>>81735144
>what is team work

>>81735199
>jolly tyrant

The horror

>>81735619
It wouldn't have helped them. Arwen (or glorfindel in the books) just rode off with frodo and the wraiths were all behind them. Speed was all that mattered

>>81735269
Great answer.May I add:
Once you did read the Silmarillion, give the other two another shot. Especially Lotr.

You will find lots of stuff you overlooked. The hair scene between Galadriel and Gimli, as an example, has a deeper meaning.

>>81735497
Yeah, Ai remember Gandalf praising radagast's friendship with animals and his knowledge of colors or something like that. He didn't really contribute to the war of the ring though

>>81735769
Also, in the books IIRC the Nazgul are just 5 in that moment and they realise that they just cannot fucking make it without the WK against Glorfindel.

Also, for the original question, ask the kingdom of Angmar and the northern humans in general, or to the humans that lived in Minas Morgul (former Minas Ithil) , if the Nazgul are bumbling and ineffective villains.

>>81735902
Also, during the day and not a closer range, the non-WK are semi-blind and can, at best, make you shit yourself.
That is generally enough.

At night and/or closer.. well

>>81735144
>>81735769
>what is flanking and boxing in
At one point they're riding through the forest and she has a rider on either side of her, so they managed to catch up with her and then in the next cut she is just ahead of them again
They're fucking useless

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How accurate is LOTRO regarding the book canon?

>>81735857
>He didn't really contribute to the war of the ring though
Besides saving gandalf, not directly. But its implied he kept the natural parts of middle earth west of the misty mountains from going full mirkwood.
The istari were supposed to offer indirect support.

>>81735959
Yeah well, in the books Glorfindel claims his horse will outrun the nazguls' horses and proceeds to do just that.

>>81736039
Strictly speaking he didn't know Gandalf was trapped on the top of orthanc. He just kept his word of sending messengers there. The messenger, the eagle, then saved him. So all he did was keep his word of sending messengers

>>81736102
>proceeds to do just that
He is Glorfindel.
Glorfindel proceeds to do just that.

>>81736273
But can he dab?

>>81735902
Minas Morgul was deserted due to multiple wars of succession, attacks from wainriders, and a plague by the time the witch king moved in.
Sauron knew he just needed to bide his time until the bloodlines and kingdoms of the numenor failed.
He would have succeded if it wasn't for a cunning ruse from Aragorn and Gandalf to goad Sauron into deploying his forces earlier than he would have by revealing Isildur's heir was on the board and had the halfling he thought had posessed the one ring.

>>81736281
He is Glorfindel. Ask him, and he will proceed to do just that.

See movie Legolas? Looks like bullshit right?
That's nothing compared to Glorfindel.

>>81730176
Are there any completely desolate areas in Middle Earth? Like something the equivalent to the Sahara desert?

What if you led a small group to the middle of it and bury it like 10 feet down.

Who the hell would ever even come close enough to it to ever know it was there

>>81733666
is that the one where mordor's basic orc infantry unit was free to build? I would just spam the fuck out of them early game so the AI wouldn't be able to build. good times

>>81736373
But can he dab on Sauron?

>>81734221
they're cool as fuck and add urgency to the story.

>>81736421
It would still call out to every living thing

something, even a bug would find it eventually

>>81736463
One should ask Chris Tolkien.
Or at least, to some lorefag here. I refrain from answering because I am not that into the lore.
My PERSONAL idea is that he will proceed to do just that.

>>81730614
This is the real answer

>>81730176
> Tolkien invented Tom Bombadil in memory of a Dutch doll which had been flushed down a lavatory.

sounds memeworthy

>>81736425
yes exactly. to pull of mordor against human players was hard as fuck.

https://forshire.blogspot.com/

>>81736504
Do you think I should write a letter to Chris Tolkien asking if he could dab on Sauron?

>>81736583
waste of a letter

we know he could

>>81736563
never played against humans because I was trash at RTS games. I preferred to just use them as imaginative narratives and be an edgelord and only use the evil nations.

which LotR RTS had the castles with catapults and shit? I'd always pick mordor on minas morgul and have like 5 AI against me, and I'd just have a shit load of catapults on the walls launching dead bodies at them causing enemy units to flee, I think

>>81736583
You should definitively proceed to do just that, anon.
You should always ask yourself: "what Glorfindel would do in my place?"

>>81730194
its his duty

>>81736671
Do you remember when Glorfindel was asked to kill a Balrog?

>Gandalf's guiding concern in The Hobbit is that Smaug may ally himself with Sauron
> Smaug living in the Lonely Mountain for about 150 years isn't exactly a secret
> during all that time, Sauron had been living in Mirkwood, relatively close to Smaug

Could somebody explain this to me? Was Gandalf needlessly cautious or what? If seeking an alliance with Smaug was part of his master plan, then why sit on his ass for so long and not do it?

Hey nerds, answer me this; who's the biggest guy in Middle-Earth?

>>81736832
Because he was gathering his forces and strength before.

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Fucking elves and their bullshit.

>>81730236
He's not actually immune to his powers, he just goes about obtaining it in a very unusual reverse psychology kind of way that fails

>>81736879
Elves are the master race

Everyone is just jelly

Dwarves >>> Humans >>> Orcs >>> Goblins >>> Halforcs >>> Hobbits >>> Bogans >>> Elves

>>81736922
holy shit I don't think you can make a worst ranking than this

kys

>>81736870
So? Even if he spent those 150 years entirely in this "gathering forces" phase, with no pause, I'd say finding himself a big fucking dragon would qualify as a force worth to be gathered.

>>81736966
why bother? its not like smaug goes anywhere

>>81736966
I doubt Smaug would want to join if Sauron had no other backing up.

>>81736563
>>81736661
also
>updated april 2017
based

>>81737034
You kidding? Sauron would promise him a bunch of gold and he'd join lickity split like the good jew he is

>>81733947
these autist arguments are so stupid. take them back to comic books please. you're debating a gay old childrens book wizard fighting an immortal godlike being that is taught by the two greatest manipulators of matter in the universe. nothing dumblebitch can do would do shit. it'd be like punching water. i'm already angry at myself for having given this spergery thought. why does it even matter. its fucking lord of the rings you faggot.

>>81737077

Smaug doesn't need someone to promise him gold, he took Erebor, he's proud and arrogant enough to think he can take whatever he wants in the world.

Also what can Sauron promise that compares to the hoard of Erebor?

>>81736832
Gandalf was indeed overtly cautios, Sauron most likely would have avoided trying to negotiate with Smaug. I mean, Saurong by the time of LotR is completely mad and consumed by his ambitions, he wants everything on the Middle Earth for himself and does not want to share. To gain Smaug's favor he'd have to promise him even bigger riched that what he had in Erebor, and again, Sauron is not one to share his conquests.

Which yes, means that the entire quest in The Hobbit was not necessary and Gandalf put Bilbo in danger without real reason. But he was a good friend.

>>81737077
Sauron is literally wiping his dragon cloaca with gold in Erebor. Sure he would want more but to lure him out of there to help Sauron he'd need some more arguments.

>>81737034
>>81737115
>>81737131
So, you guys basically are saying that Gandalf was full of shit.

>>81737181
Better safe than sorry if anything.

>>81737181
That's his entire schtick

He's a jingoist nationalist racist

>>81730760
Yes, some the best all time narrative there.

>>81737216
I didnt know that smaug was a country

>>81735199
it's called "Foundation and Empire".

Fuck you all orcphobes, we should let them in Minas Tirith, they're peaceful and never did anything wrong

>>81737616
But what about all the beheadings that happened in Osgiliath?

>>81737663
those werent real orcs and a misunderstanding.

>>81737663
Propaganda spread by the white males of the white city. That never happened and even if it did, no true orc would do that.

>>81737521
he basically was

but I meant gandalf

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What's your guys favorite track? Mine's
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ9NOV3KNpY

>>81731547
Best character

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>>81731330
>this guy

>>81737131
>Sauron is not one to share his conquests.
Horseshit. The black numenoreans did just fine under him. And he used whatever method he had available to sway people to his thrall, be it gold, land, revenge, etc. He doesn't care about material acquisition, Sauron's whole shtick is becoming the one ruler of the world so he can order it as he sees fit.
And you are forgetting about the fact that dragons aren't naturally occuring creatures. They all owed their existance to Morgoth who corrupted cold drakes (giant iguanasl to create dragons. Since Sauron is the heir of Morgoth's empire the last dragon would be under his banner as well.

And fucking beyond all the above conjecture, youre forgetting that if it wasnt for the lonely mountain and dale being resettled then Sauron's forces would have swepth through the west and burnt a swatch of destruction all the way to rivendale.
Lothlorien and Erebor were critical to making sure that there was something to return to after the ring was destroyed, you fucking dunlender.

>>81731330
this would be the plot twist a modern writer would pull.

Is there a blu-ray release of the LOTR trilogy without that blue filter over it?

>>81737131
Wouldn't Sauron be able to control Smaug? I mean, it was the last great dragon of Middle Earth, but still a little worm compared to the huge dragons of the First Age; the same way Third Age Sauron was a mere shadow of Morgoth.

>>81738681
The messenger from Mordor who made contact with the dwarves promised them magic rings in exchange for information concerning Hobbits and a particular, yet insignificant, ring in the possession of a Hobbit that Sauron just happened to be fond of. Sauron wouldn't share power but he would share possessions if he saw it fit.

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Is Tom the Madara Uchiha of the LOTR universe?

>>81739053
Are we supposed to understand this reference

>>81739013
>Sauron wouldn't share power
He had no problem dangling the opportunity out there if he thought it would benefit him re: Saruman. Whether me makes good on it after the fact is irrelevant.

>>81739218
Its copypasta anon. Old pasta at that. Making fun of powerlevels.

>>81730176
It wasn't his, wasn't from his land, wasn't his concern. Tom's entire concept of strength comes from being not "carefree" but being "regional". He has absolute power over what little he has claimed for himself. By limiting himself to a specific area, his power as a Maia seems to grow within it over time, as he gets to know the land, as he works it. It's the same sort of subtle philosophical magic as the Shire itself, but much more pronounced and apparent because he's much more powerful than all of the Hobbits put together. His magic is magic of will, and it's a limited will because he's a former maia who limited himself by taking that form, just like the wizards, but opposite in purpose...although bearing some resemblance to Radagast's nature.

>>81730195
See above. By choosing to specialize and remain in one place, all of his latent power grows into mastery of that area over time. He had master of the Ring only because it was within his area, so it could not have influence over him. All of the Ring's magic is bound up in Sauron's power to dominate - since Tom is the Master in his own small, unambitious domain, his concentrated mastery renders the Ring unable to control him. It cannot call out to him, cannot tempt him like it can a traveler and adventurer like Gandalf or an enlarging schemer like Sauron. Tom is complacent and passive outside of his own land, by choice, and this choice is...almost irreversible. If he changed his nature, it would be like Saruman's fall. The staff being broken was of course largely a formality, Saruman had fallen from his nature and Gandalf had been reborn as his replacement due to fate or circumstance, and his place was removed from the natural maiar order in Middle-Earth. Tom's land, all he really cared for, would fall into ruin. Maybe his Goldberry would leave him or vanish. And the Ring would then exert power over him, just by him changing his intent from one of disinterest to one of destruction.

>>81730350
It doesn't say he's a maia but it's pretty well hinted in various bits of lore, if I remember right. But there is that...sense of something out of place. A river-daughter, a nymph, exists nowhere else in all of Middle-earth and I don't recall any other references to them anywhere. The Ents are the same sort of thing, but their background and existence is a little better explained, by Treebeard himself. Did Bombadil meme Goldenberry into existence? Does he influence the nature of the wights? Does the Old Forest's sentience have anything to do with his intentional or unintentional influence?

Actually, it's sort of a weird connection, but he reminds me of the "harem king" in The Gamer (it's this Korean webcomic I've been reading what's available of the scanlated version of), he's the most powerful person alive, so far you intentionally know nothing about him, and he influences and controls some people and events, but he is...more than anyone else...seemingly disinterested in most of the goings-on of the abyss. A hobbyist. Someone whose strength comes from knowing their place in the world. The opposite of an adventurer, a pillar, a fortress, a force of nature. You could even say the same sort of concept about Saitama if he weren't playing a hero.

Gandalf said it best about Bombadil with that thing about a stone collecting moss vs one rolling, and how they would have much to talk about. The clear implication was that Bombadil, while in actuality being yet another useless magical hippie who barely even helped the lower races out against Sauron, had a variety of subtle influences on the surrounding land and people as a whole throughout the ages, and possessed just as much hidden, unique, subtle, or forgotten knowledge and understanding as Gandalf himself, though more regionally focused and less useful, as Gandalf himself knew or figured out. Gandalf was unique among the "ancients" though - able to maintain a direct, inflexible sense of honor and also urgency.

>>81731949
But everyone does remember Elladan and Elrohir. Should've picked some fuck-off non-mentioned person from the family trees in the appendices, Elladan and Elrohir are like among the ten or fifteen elves whose names and identities I actually remember.

>>81732060
He was trying to make GRAND LORE, specifically because Britain had none like other countries, mostly because it was such a mixed culture for so long. The genealogical stuff, in the book and outside of it, all of the not strictly necessary worldbuilding much of which was never even seen and dealt with events that happened in his imagination ages before anything he wrote about at length...doesn't it remind you of the Old Testament? The begats? The genealogies that mustn'y be lost to time, ancient Hebrews whose names are still bound in the most-printed book yet, in millions and millions of copies? This is fiction, but it has the "feeling" of genuine lore because there's so much detail, so many now-meaningless artifacts embedded in the books in one place or another, only known of referentially and through the realistically ignorant eyes of the hobbits.

>>81732118
Maybe your dad's just not that into lore or didn't have a lot of time to read the supplemental material?

>>81731144

it's almost certain that tolkien would have taken heroin or opium when get got a cold or the flu. he might have taken cocaine if he was tired at some point, though that was less commonly used outside of local anesthetics.

>>81740862
>tfw I'm lying in bed right now with a flu and there's no heroin to take the edge off
Was everyone a functioning addict back then

The real question is why didn't Galadriel just riverdance to Mt Doom with the ring

>>81736733
No it isn't. Tom Bombadil is the master of his little realm. It is not in his power or ability to destroy the Ring. At best, he could keep it for a while (until all of Middle Earth is swallowed up and ruled by Sauron), and he'd never be beholden to the power of the Ring, but once Sauron had dominion over the rest of the world, even Bombadil would lose his little domain.

>>81741080
Heroin was once sold in drugstores, but neither that nor cocaine nor opium itself was anywhere near as refined as what you can get today...and I'm talking about street shit, not even our medical grade.

And then, even the relatively unrefined opium the British were selling the Chinese way back still almost killed China.

>>81741152
The real question is did Goldberry a watersports?

I just finished RotK. Do I need to read the appendicies?

>>81741471
Yes but they're boring af so space that shit out

>>81740636
>No grand lore
>Not literally thousands of years of mythology and stories

>>81731949
Arvedui was the one who drowned in the ice, right?

>>81741541
None of which culminated in an epic like that of other cultures. It's because Britain was culturally variegated. All of those conquerors and mixings of folk. This isn't shit I'm making up, this is what Tolkien himself said about writing the LOTR itself. He wanted Britain to have a grand unified fantasy. So he made one.

>be Feanor
>make the most beautiful gems ever in all of existence
>so beautiful Satan himself comes to steal them
>get mad, swear the most terrible oath that will ever be sworn in the history of the world
>former allies and friends are like "cool down bro, you're not thinking straight"
>kill them and steal their boats
>cross the ocean, get to the other side and burn the boats because this train has no brakes
>takes my entire people on a rampage all the way to the gates of Angband
>personally fight my way so deep into the enemy ranks I end up soloing nine Balrogs at once
>finally get struck down by Gothmog, lord of Balrogs
>my (many) children carry my dying body from the battlefield
>make them swear they nor their children nor their children's children will rest until we get those fucking gems
>set fire and blow away as ashes on the breeze as I die because of how FUCKING ANGRY I AM

MADMAN
A
D
M
A
N

>>81730354
Morgot totally fuged him

>>81741535
>boring af

Humans should have stopped breeding in the early 80s.

>>81741684
It's dry reading, you pompous, pathetic fuck. The point of 4chan is to make fun of things, not be as stiff-necked as possible, and this isn't even /lit/ where everyone acts like they have a stick up their ass to be so le contrarian. If you still feel a need to demonstrate how buttoned-down and intellectual you are, you clearly have not read nearly enough for your age. Reminder, Tolkien was a linguist. He would, if anything, have enjoyed shitposting in "urban youth" just as much as any of us if not more.

>>81741795
>He would, if anything, have enjoyed shitposting in "urban youth"

Extremely doubtful.

>>81741342
I guess the heroin was mainly used in cough syrups because it's an antitussive. I think morphine was available in pharmacies too and laudanum was the affordable stuff. I don't know what how potent they were but judging on everything I've read about that era it wasn't a problem for recreational purposes

>>81741899
He wasn't the stiff, humorless autist you've fallen in love with the idea of.

>>81731884
This. Just google a name if you dont remember who it is

>>81741950
It ended up still being a huge problem for recreational purposes, which is why you can't buy it in drugstores anymore, but it took a while to realize it because the companies gave zero fucks and (white) people used to not go immediately to waving around a switchblade and screeching at cashiers whenever they had an addiction problem.

>>81742041
What I meant was that it was potent enough to be used recreationally, I.e. no problmes for the users

>>81731813
>Ungoliant, is [...] so powerful that Melkor, the most powerful being barring God, was afraid of her.
>Sauron would notice and fuck her up

kek

Why didn't Eru just destroy the ring/sauron

>>81741636
Don't forget
>had a fetish for his niece's hair
>got cucked of it by a dwarf

>>81742405
>at one point
So you specifically read through and omitted that salient part just for a low grade shitpost? Faggot.

>>81742467
Why didn't God just banish Satan to a different planet.

wtf plotholes

>>81742467
But he did.

>>81742645
Smeagol was Eru desu

>>81742467
Because thats not how the fucking song goes.
It was middle earth's problem, the men of numenor made sure of that when they violated the ban of the valar against better council.
Eru is the one who created the themes, he's the one who knows how it all plays out.
The rings of power were created when Sauron went around in disguise trying to enlist the help of the elves to enslave them. Everyone felt something fishy was happening and told him to fuck off except for the elves of Hollin, namely Celebrimbor.
Plus the last time the valar openly fought in middle earth they accidentally a whole continent. That's why they sent the Istari to middle earth with power limits on them.

So tl;dr: The free races of middle earth made their beds, now they have to lie in them.

>>81742405
I know this is bait but Shelob=/=Ungoliant

>>81742557
Because any flavour > vanilla

>>81742887
No one was talking about BDSM you massive faggot

>>81742814
Shelob, and the spiders of mirkwood are the offspring of ungoliant.

>>81742956
But who did ungoliant mate with?

>>81742936
Its the same difference you cuck.

>>81742772
>So tl;dr: The free races of middle earth made their beds, now they have to lie in them.
How is it their fault that Sauron wanted to conquer ME? Sauron enticed the numenorians to attack valinor but the loyal ones, elendil etc., fled to ME. They took care of Morgoth, why not defeat his liutaneant

>>81742998
some elf with a really strange fetish?

>>81742956
Is there any known reason Shelob never speaks in LOTR other than that Tolkien just didn't think it would fit as well with the "epic" tone of LOTR as it did with the Aesop's fables sort of writing style of The Hobbit?

>>81742998
Anon don't you know? Evil magic monsters just "spawn" things.

>>81743005
Sauron is below their scope and if they interfere they fuck the lore. Also like anon already said, because that wasn't the plan. Anu made a rule saying "you can't just walk around among mortals all the time running every little thing with your dick swinging around, not in Middle-Earth at least".

>>81743000
le ebrything is about leather maymay

>>81743119
Shelob does have speech though

>>81743159
If you were god what would you do with creation?

Have everything be sunshine and rainbows all the fucking time; no you wouldn't. You need some pain and sorrow they are seasonings after all

>>81743300
le pain is meaning of life maymay, how original
haha agony is only way of creating contrast lmao revel in your misery like woa so ancient so intense wow life n death opposites n shit hmmmmm

File: 1489372925959.jpg (1MB, 1894x2240px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1894x2240px

>>81743353
>Pain cant be meaningful
>you cant revel in your sorrow

Tulkas is the personification of fight from the "fight or flight"
Nienna is the personification of flight from the "fight or flight"

I thought this was a beautiful concept. I didn't see this level of duality with the rest of the valeer sadly.

bombadil recognized that even sauron's reign, if successful, would never be permanent, and the world would continue no matter what.

>>81743844
>saurons ultimate goal was to free morgoth
>morgoths ultimate was to destroy all of creation

Makes sense

>>81744028
He didn't want to free Morgoth, he just wanted to continue his works, as his own.

>>81743844
Or maybe he created the song and o knew what would happen

>>81743005
>They took care of Morgoth
And they accidentally a whole continent in the process.
Plus eru helped plenty by stacking the deck in the favor of the fellowship. But it was only a tiny nudge in the right direction to tip the ballance, after they had nothing left to give.
Tolkien was a devout religous guy, and wanted to show how divine intercession is supposed to work.
God doesn't just magic shit out of thin air. It's a reward for faith and sacrifice.
Just look at how the ring is actually destroyed. Frodo finally cant fight against the rings influence. Its physically and spiritually impossible for him (or anyone) to do.
Then gollum atracks frodo. Biting off the ring and taking it as his.
He swore an oath on the ring.
Oaths are srs bsns
Ring has no choice but to exact punishment for breaking his oath.
The punishment was for gollum to toss himself off a cliff.
He trips while celebrating off a cliff.
Right into the fires of mount doom.

The whole story is full of examples of things like this. About men going proudly into the gates of hell without the slimmest hope of victory. But they do it because it's the only thing good men of conscience can do. The terrors of oblivion aren't held back by sky wizards, but by the deeds and actions of men. If they hold true and sacrifice everything then sometimes the miracle is that fucking footsteps poem your grandma has in the living room.

>>81744488
>someone on /tv/ actually understands Tolkien
y,you too?

>>81744488
sounds like seneca

>>81743609
Tulkas is the personification of powerbombing a motherfucker from the turnbuckle onto some card tables. He's only in middle earth because as they were closing a door he heard some bitch talking shit and decided to set the record straight.
I've always just imagined tulkas is Macho Man Randy Savage.

>>81744658
He's that too. Tulkas is the only Vala worth a damn. I just really liked the "aha!" moment of reading about Tulkas and Nienna and realizing they were the fight or flight idea given form.

Melkor shuddered at the sound of Nahar and the Valarama, but he straight up nigger senses out of there if even the smallest whiff of Tulkas is in the air.

And that is why Tulkas laughs.

Gil-Galad was an Elven king,
His lance was long, his sword was keen
And yet he used an M16
To kill his foes, and wipe out Orcs,
That's how this hero Elf-king works!

>>81745134
What a way to end a wonderful LoTR-thread