What makes a mary sue a mary sue?

The most important element is entering into an established franchise or story, like a self-insert of the writer

>Rey, Star Wars = Mary Sue
>Selene, Underworld = Not a Mary Sue

>>81580386
wrong there both mary sues because neckbeards like you eat up that skinny chick badass shit

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>>81580305
>A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character, a young or high-rank person who saves the day through unrealistic abilities. Often this character is recognized as an author insert or wish-fulfillment
I would add to that they don't have flaws and their abilities or victories are un-earned and just exist, they don't usually have a character arch or development or seem to really have a backstory as to why they can do what they do.

>>81580456
low quality shitpost

Well what you have to understand is that there’s a difference between a mary sue in theory and a mary sue in action. You can have a really OP character that isn’t necessarily a mary sue based on the context of the story in which they're in. Ultimately what defines a mary sue is whether or not a character is sufficiently challenged by the events of their story. Take Aragorn from LOTR for example. The guy is trained by elves, a king by birthright, is part superhuman, a master swordsman and is friends with some of the most powerful dudes in his world. If you were to describe Aragorn to someone who hadn’t read or watched LOTR then they’d call him a mary sue. However Aragorn’s particularly impressive skill set and traits don’t prevent him from being challenged throughout his story. He’s pushed to his limits and almost fails several times. On top of this we also have to take into account how powerful he is in proportion to other characters. Aragorn exists in the same universe as Gandalf, Legolas, Gimli, Boromir etc; all powerful characters in their own right. So Aragorn isn’t a mary sue because not only is he sufficiently challenged in his story but his power level isn’t egregiously disproportionate to that of those around him.

>>81580884
An example of a mary sue in practise, however, is Rey from The Force Awakens. Like Aragorn she also has a wide skill set but is neither challenged throughout the film nor is her set of skills in proportion to that of those around her. Every challenge that Rey faces in the film; being attacked by thugs, escaping Tattooine and destroying the Imperial ships chasing her, defeating Stormtroopers and later Kylo Ren she completes easiliy. On top of this she also completes these challenges with skill equal or greater than that of those around her. She demonstrates herself to be as good a pilot or better than Han or Poe, is as good with a blaster and Finn, Chewie and Han, knows more about the Falcon than Han, gains the trust of Han, Chewie and Leia instantly and without any effort and defeats Kylo Ren. The only part of the film in which she was challenged was during her fight with Kylo Ren however the the degree to which she came back with her second wind rendered her earlier struggle moot. Instead of barely scraping by she instead suddenly became his equal if not his superior in the second half of the fight

So basically you have two characters who, in theory, anyone would call mary sues. However based on the context of the stories in which they take part in one is a mary sue in practise and one is not. Aragorn is greatly challenged throughout his story and his skill set is proportional to that of those around him. Rey is not challenged throughout her story and her skill set greatly outweighs that of those around her.

>>81580884
>>81580907
This
>a well explained and thought out post on /tv/

>>81580948
>1 minute post difference
its a pasta, dumbass

>>81580386
this

>>81580884
>>81580907
Autism

>>81581007
No I just wrote it out beforehand

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>>81581124
well I guess I'm fucking retarded

>>81581173
It's okay, anon

*rapes you*

>>81580305
It depends on whether they're OP as fuck or not

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>>81580305
Whether they're qt or not

>>81580884
>>81580907
Good post

>>81580884
>>81580907
Get the fuck outta here