You can't deny Zack Snyder's Genuis

If you liked MoS and BvS I'm certain you'll enjoy Justice League

If not I can't recommend it

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>>81572441
Wow epic. Finally a smart flick for smart viewers.

>>81572491
Antz>Bug's Life

Snyder is going to make Kurosawa look like an amateur. Can't wait.

>>81572441
I never use the word "pretentious", but that quote is quite literally the definition of being pretentious

>making usually unjustified or excessive claims (as of value or standing)
>expressive of affected, unwarranted, or exaggerated importance, worth, or stature

>>81572441
Whoa. Such a genius.

>>81572519
Woody Allen's ant was molesting larvae the whole time.

>>81572441
Lois will die in Justice League, causing superman to lose his shit. Screencap this.

>>81572628

Imagine if in BvS instead of Superman crying out for Martha that Lois gets stabbed trying to protect Clark, the wound isn't fatal but it's enough to make Bruce recoil in horror at what he's done.

>>81572600
she was asking for it

>>81572441
The director is describing his own movie as "awesome"

how low can one go really

That certainly takes a genius to namedrop Seven Samurai, even the only thing they have in common is a bunch of strangers coming together, but that's never been done before outside of Kurosawa so Justice League must be on the same level, right?

>>81572773

BvS has many visual references to Excalibur.

Justice League will also callback on Seven Samurai.

Just u watch u marvel cuck. Go watch Thor and leave real kino to chads

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>>81572764
Your like a little baby

>>81572794
>Justice League will also callback on Seven Samurai.

But that's just plain retarded if you throw I'M RICH quips and jokes around, and in the next moment you try to callback the Seven Samurai and be all serious all of a sudden.
If I told you Thor will have a 2001:A Space Odyssey callback/homage in the movie, would you think it's an automatically better movie*

Tarantino already made a shitty flick influenced by Seven Samurai, I don't see anyone calling him a genius for it.

>>81572875
>implying one of the hallmarks of Kurosawa's movies outside of the Tragedies wasn't slapstick and jokes on top of the dramatic and hyper-stylistic stuff

You haven't even seen Seven Samurai you fucking hack.

>>81572441
H A C K S N Y D E R

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>>81572441

This is interesting, because in Seven Samurai they are only six and the 7th member is actually not a Samurai and joined them in the final arc. Still hoping the Green Lantern is the 7th..lol

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>>81572909

kek

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>DC literally copied a Bugs Life for JUST leage

>>81572958
I don't get it. How are they the same?

>>81572764
>A director should not be proud of his product
fucking retard

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The kino trilogy continues

>>81572909
But Kurosawa used innocent situational humor which never broke the tone of the film and was in line with the narrative (there are no jokes while they are defending the village), not the blatant shoved in *wink wink do you get it hehe* quipage which makes no sense in terms of the narrative as we saw in the trailer.

>>81573036
>reviewing a film based on a trailer
These marlels keep dropping lower and lower every day

>>81573036
dude, have you actually seen any kurosawa films?

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Is this the DCEU general?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8kVaCUKW94

If your primary take from Seven Samurai was "a bunch of good guys get together and beat up the bad guys" then you might've missed a fucking thing or two

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>Marvel
Ok, based on our focus surveys, we really should have this much humor and this much action and this much drama so you go direct that

>Snyder
Fuck it, let's make it like Seven Samurai

Can he be more of /our guy/?

>>81573079
Kurosawa was the greatest director who ever lived, he had mastered all forms of the medium. His movies are quite different from one another.

>>81572441
Zack "Kurosawa" Snyder

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I can't tell what's bait anymore

>>81572441
>every leaguer dies in the end
Kino

>>81573178
no he wasn't, and you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, especially here >>81573036

>>81573239
I'm not him. Three wrongs in one post, not your day, huh?

>>81573126

kek when you out it that way

>>81573260
mistakes happen, and yet, if you think Kurosawa is the best director of all time, then you really are a fucking pleb

it's the answer a 15 year old would give when trying to sound intelligent.

Zack is about as opposite to Kurosawa as you can get in his film making approach.
This will be The Magnificent Seven (2016) tier at best.

>>81573320
care to elaborate on that?

>>81573126
Does this guy think he's real attractive or something? God nothing more off putting then someone doing these try-hard poses and failing.

>>81573297
>it's the answer a 15 year old would give when trying to sound intelligent.

so basically >>81573126?

>>81573239
>>81573294
>>81573335
>>81573370
Go to bed, Snyder

>>81573370
yeah pretty much, though at least it will cover one of his better films

>>81573335
I don't really have to. Just watch MoS or BvS, and then watch Seven Samurai to see how on another level Kurosawa is, and how no mimicry on Snyder's part is going to match that. Want to take it further? Watch the new Magnificent Seven (based on the original Americanized Seven Samurai movie) to get something much closer to Znyder's approach as a film maker.

>characters are all standing facing left
>Must be because it draws inspiration from the Seven Samurai!
Wow

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>>81572441
>comparing shit league with the brilliant Seven Samurai
You capeshiters need to stop.

Sure, if Seven Samurai was actually about the Samurai and not the villagers

Sort of how Fried Green Tomatoes like would've been Star Wars had it just been set in a space war

>>81573444
>I don't really have to
yes you really do
> Just watch MoS or BvS, and then watch Seven Samurai to see how on another level Kurosawa is
I see very interesting and experimental takes on the genre which, while flawed, are some of the best of the genre.

I then see one of Kurosawas best films, but have no clue on how i'm expected to compare and contrast the two.

Both directors have/had successfully built their own cinematic language and both have recurring themes that reflect in their films.

Kurosawa at his best is a much better director then Snyder sure, but he is still a highly competent auteur in his own right.

>Watch the new Magnificent Seven (based on the original Americanized Seven Samurai movie)
Wow anon, i never knew the basis for 'The magnificent seven', next will you be able to tell me the original story archetype for Yojimbo?

>>81573594
>yes you really do
No, not really. Because I don't want to do your homework for you, and don't really care if you remain cinematically illiterate. It's up to you if you want to read up on cinematography and screenwriting 101, Kurosawa and his film making methods, and than contrast that to Snyder's and Antoine Fuqua (and really, that of modern Hollywood and their production methods), and see if you agree with me that everything these people should have learned from the director they so admire is lacking in their methodology.

>>81573594
You pleb, there's nothing experimental in Snyder's work, his visual style is just mimicking what directors like the Wachowskis, Robert Rodriguez, D'el Toro and Nolan have done.

>>81573706
Show me one director that wasn't influenced by prior work.

>>81572441
Justice League 2 will be his 2001: A Space Odyssey

>>81573885
>>81573706
Hello?

>>81573706
>just mimicking what directors like the Wachowskis, Robert Rodriguez, D'el Toro and Nolan
absolute bullshit. The closest you could come is comparing usage of slow-mo.

Of course there's grounds for inspiration, but how in any fucking way does nolan's style reflect upon snyder?

>>81573691
>No, not really. Because I don't want to do your homework for you
if you make a sparse claim you should at least be able to back it up.

>It's up to you if you want to read up on cinematography and screenwriting 101, Kurosawa and his film making methods
I'm 100% certain that i know more about Kurosawa's films and his technical process then you do judging by your posts so far.

>and see if you agree with me that everything these people should have learned from the director they so admire is lacking in their methodology.
Snyder has stated that there is a vibe of Seven Samurai as he spends most of the film gathering the members to starve of the invading threat. There's been no feat of trying to emulate his actual techniques.

Do you know where Kurosawa legitimately got a majority of his ideas from? If not you should look it up.

>>81574024
Props for actually taking the time to shut down those Marvel idiots. I'm too tired to do even that these days.

>>81574066
thank you, though in fairness i'm beginning to tire of both sides, most dc fans don't actually get into discussion and just spend the entire thread shooting down any negative opinion. And dont get me started on the faggot upset over the Kirby art in the new thor film

>>81574066
Though in reality he's just using fallacies to shut down any hopes of an actual discussion.

>Show me one director that wasn't influenced by prior work.

I mean, THAT'S your main argument? That's what's supposed to invalidate everything that's been said thus far? Fucking lol

>>81574191
that wasn't me, please actually take the time to read my posts and learn to discern that anyone posting under anonymous, is not the same person

>>81572909
Neither has Snyder.

I don’t even know who's trolling who anymore

DC fans eat this shit up too. Zack Snyder is a chad masquerading as an artist. All he does is recreate images. Nigga has no substance. Talking about a seven samurai influence meanwhile this nigga has 20 Turkish Airline cameos planned for the film. Fucking hack.

>>81573230
that would be statisfying indeed. but then they would reset everything anyway and make Justice League 2-3-4 and 5

>>81574066
You're the idiotic marvel here, your blindness love for a hack is laughable, it shows your immaturity and lack of understanding of what film making really is, perhaps one day when you're older you'll understand.

>>81572866
THE BIGGEST SINCE THE SILENT ERA

All you capeshit niggers need to fuck off back to /v/, Reddit, and Twitter. Fucking newfags, all you underages need to be euthanized

>>81574616
This.

>>81574640
kill yourself

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>>81572441
You niggas will never learn, he's done after this one so hopefully the dceu can be salvaged

>>81574895
>it's predictabaly terrible
So...this is the power of Marvel shills


woah....

>>81574893
You first buddy.

>>81574893
>t. Assblasted Redditor

>>81574895
The JL trailer was terrible, though. Not even normies liked it.

When you can't even trick the normies into coming to your movie with a well cut trailer anymore, it's over.

>>81574895
>fans claim they will never be fooled again

This is no longer accurate because no matter how bad the movie is, DC fans are convinced it is a masterpiece.

>>81575043
>The JL trailer was terrible, though. Not even normies liked it.
source?

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>>81575043
DELET

Judging from the trailer, all of this will mean jackshit. JL will probably have the league fighting some shitty cgi fodder army with all the members spewing shitty quips just like avengers. It's just going to end up being capeshit and nothing more. Making homages to superior works of fiction or using obvious symbolism is the laziest trick you can use to fool your audience into thinking a movie is somehow "deep" or "smart". Guess that's how the low the standards are for capeshit

>>81574945
>>81574952
Marvel shill and his buddy upset there

>>81575359
Whatever you say, newfag

>>81573706
>D'el
L'el

>>81573513
Waw
Rlly maks u thincc

>>81573560
Fuck off cuck
Seven Samurai wasn't even that good compared to Man of Steel

>>81575729
nice bait marlel

>>81572773
>a bunch of strangers coming together, but that's never been done before outside of Kurosawa
I hope you are joking

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Means absolutely nothing when it comes from a studio puppet

>>81573366
He is attractive.He has a nice chin,a good face structure and a nice hairline.He is leagues above you most likely.Specially if you are not white

>>81572441
>seven samurai
>theres 6 guys on the cover

can japs even count

>>81572557
>I never use the word "pretentious"
I believe you

>>81572441
KI FUCKING NO.

>>81572794

>Referencing other good movies makes a movie good

L O L

>>81573706
What is nolan's style? like seriously... does that guy have even a bit of style? it's bland as fuck. He can't even come close to snyder with his inferior craft

>>81572794
>BvS has many visual references to Excalibur
I'm starting to believe there's an even more subtle reference to Excalibur built into the myth arc.

Merlin: The days of our kind are numberèd. The one God comes to drive out the many gods. The spirits of wood and stream grow silent. It's the way of things. Yes... it's a time for men, and their ways

What we're about to witness is the inversion of that sentiment, a new age of myths and heroes

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>>81572866
>snyderfags think all their haters are nolanfags

>>81572441
>Bruce Wayne is having to go out and sort of 'Seven Samurai' the Justice League together
yeah, because Bruce Wayne is like a poor farmer who had to scrape together a paltry sum of rice to bribe the warriors to defend a group of innocent villagers from a threat.

oh wait, no. Bruce Wayne doesn't have to beg anyone, he's fucking Batman. Oh wait, he has loads of crash, so really no one has any reason to turn down his offer. Oh wait, there is no threat to anyone in any of the trailers, so there's no real reason to assemble in the first place.

Cheese and rice, Zack Snyder is the biggest hack since M Night Shymalan.

>>81572441
they are just fighting ANOTHER MINDLESS DRONE ARMY like Avengers did 6 years ago

>>81572477
if you enjoyed shit before you will like this new piece of shit

The problem with Batman vs. Superman is that much of the plot doesn't pass the "so what" test. Like Lois's investigation of Lex's mercenaries and their special Lex-branded bullets. An absurd scheme to frame Superman for wrecking an African village which leads to Superman being summoned to court. But so what? The courtroom is blown up before Superman says a word and the entire subplot is never mentioned again. Lex tries to prejudice Batman and Superman against one another by stealing disability checks and sharing articles about Batman branding criminals. So what? The fight is eventually staged by simply kidnapping Superman's mom, rendering Lex's preceding machinations completely pointless. Abysmal storytelling and an unforgiveable waste of time in a movie that despite a bloated 3+ hours length, can't even spare a few minutes to give Superman more than 42 lines or squeeze in scenes for Wonder Woman to talk to anyone other than Bruce Wayne.

In contrast, Marvel's Civil War is a masterpiece of efficient storytelling. Batman vs Superman struggles to effectively tell a story about a couple of superheroes, one villain and a love interest. Civil War manages to credibly weave over a dozen heroes into a tightly-focused story, two of whom are main characters, half of which are properly developed and characterised and all of whom, even the "guest stars", get something cool to say or do. Even Falcon gets more dialogue in Civil War than Superman does in his own movie! "Quip"-filled though it may be, the conversations in Civil War flow like real banter between real people, and do a good job of conveying the personalities of the characters. Zack Snyder seems to believe a few pompous pronouncements and Biblical motifs are enough to secure the audiences empathy with his heroes. But they aren't. Hence Batman vs Superman's 27% RT score, Razzie award, and failure to reach $1bn despite starring the two biggest names in the comic book industry.

>>81576900
My favorite part about this pasta is that it's true.

>>81576900
>the two biggest names in the comic book industry.
Spider-Man is a bigger name than Superman or Batman

Snyder should take the leap to working on marketing and advertising. If he manage to convince an entire fanbase he's a misunderstood poet making "deep" superhero movies he has what it takes to become a real-life Don Draper.

>>81576974
Nope

>>81576856
You haven't even met the Lowlies yet. I hope they're in this, at least in the Ancient War if nowhere else.

>>81576936
The first half is spot on, the civil war shit on the other hand....

>>81576617
Nolan
>dead beautiful wife as the main characters motivation
>impressive cinematic set pieces
>grey/dark blue collor pallete
>clunky dialogue/choreography

>>81575309

Which is it?

He uses obvious symbolism

Or

You need to watch YouTube and read essays to understand it all?

>>81572764
That's some stellar reading comprehension there, chief. He said it was an "awesome undertaking," which is just another way of saying that it's a massive project.

>>81576995
>the Lowlies
is that another mindless drone army? WOW SO EXCITING! I'M ON THE EDGE OF MY SEAT!

Fuck WB/DC they could have easily put 6 super villains in the movie but needed the heroes throwing quips while they kill cgi bugs

>>81577047
Obvious symbolism (mostly biblical)

Once you get that for example Superman=Jesus there is nothing more to his character, you can only look for more clues that imply that he is the representation of Jesus, there is an universal singular answer to every single Snyder scene, which ironically make his movies even more simple and finite.

>>81577039
you should add:

>themes about indentity
>themes about reality
>themes about the nature of the artist and the film medium

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>>81577106
>Superman=Jesus

Try again, pleb. That's just the smokescreen. There is one specific scene with one incredibly narrow interpretation where he's presented to the audience as echoic of Christ. The rest are there to inform the viewer of what the people around him are seeing in him.

If you'd like, I'll give you some time to ponder which scene you think I'm talking about. As a bonus, here's Lex as a saint.

>>81573126
>Implying the average /tv/ user has seen and gives a shit about Seven Samurai

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>>81577200
>Superman is not Jesus

Here's some official BvS concept art and shots for you

>>81577634
Good. You got the right scene.

What you're looking at is either the impact he's had on Bruce. or more likely, it's a slap on the wrist to comics fans. Again, if you'd like time to think about it, I'm glad to give it to you.

>>81577811
But that's my point, every scene has a singular universal answer and nothing more to it, makes his movies simpler and more finite.

Films aren't meant to be puzzles which you have to put in a certain kind of way to "get" them.

>>81577200
>IMG_0141.jpg

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>>81578104
>Films aren't meant to be puzzles which you have to put in a certain kind of way to "get" them.

Said no true film lover. Ever.

Think about the message being conveyed. Bruce was over his line, killing, obviously the bad guy. Witnessing this sacrifice re-awakened heroism in him. He looks at this man as his savior. That's from Bruce's angle.

From the audience's angle: the hyperviolence of the 90s were a bad time to be Superman. All the "grit" and "realism" killed him. In essence, that's saying that he died for the sins of his fans.

Lastly, in regards to the overarching myth arc, it's the sacrifice that kicks off a new Heroic Age. Objects of worship have been an ongoing motif since the first scene of Man of Steel, and that's precisely what Clark was becoming in the eyes of the world.

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>>81578299
>Said no true film lover. Ever.
u saying wat u son of basterd bitch

>>81578299
>Said no true film lover. Ever.

To clear things up for you, here's a quote about symbolism from Tarkovsky himself:
>"I am an enemy of symbols. Symbol is too narrow a concept for me in the sense that symbols exist in order to be deciphered. An artistic image on the other hand is not to be deciphered, it is an equivalent of the world around us. Rain in Solaris is not a symbol, it is only rain which at certain moment has particular significance to the hero. But it does not symbolise anything. It only expresses. This rain is an artistic image. People always try to find "hidden" meanings in my films. But wouldn't it be strange to make a film while striving to hide one's thoughts? An image cannot be a symbol in my opinion. Whenever an image is turned into a symbol, the thought becomes walled in so to speak, it can be fully deciphered. A symbol contains within itself a definite meaning. An image — as opposed to a symbol — is indefinite in meaning. One cannot speak of the infinite world by applying tools that are definite and finite"

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>>81578127
From my ipad while I was watching the Expanse. Also:

>>81577200
>>81578299

Check em.

>>81578363
What would Tarkovsky think of Marvels?

>>81578299
You are right. They will never admit they are right because they aren't paid to agree with you.

>>81578363
I'm familiar with the quote. Just because it's true for Tarkosvky's approach doesn't mean it's necessarily the only approach or even a superior approach. If all directors were the same, what would the point even be?

>>81578456
>>Said no true film lover. Ever.

>>81578413
Most probably the same, degenerate studio cash-in trash

>>81578413
He loved Star Wars so he'll probably like Guardians of the Galaxy

>>81578468
I don't think you even understood what Tarkovsky meant. And is Tarkovsky really relevant when you're here to make MCU look more favorable?

>>81578468
So what does Tarkosvky think of Malick?

>>81578456
Then I guess Tarkovsky is not a true film lover. Or David Lynch. Or Jodorowsky, Or Kubrick.

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>justice League trailer has more quips than Thor trailer
Haha

>>81578509
Oversimplifications only make you look like an intellectually dishonest jackass hiding your insecurities behind snobbery.

>>81578504
Then what did Tarkovsky mean when he said "I am an enemy of symbols"?

>>81578505
I don't know if he saw Badlands or Days of Heaven.

>>81578504
>you're here to make MCU look more favorable
both are hot garbage my dude, I doubt any marvelcuck saw a single Tarkovsky film

>>81578550
What does that even mean in the context of BvS? Superman is portrayed as a symbol of hope to mankind. Would Tarkovsky hate that? Nope. You are taking a quote out of context and applying it to a conversation completely irrelevant to his quote.

>>81578550
>>81578550
>Then what did Tarkovsky mean when he said "I am an enemy of symbols"?

Maybe it's just me, but just maybe he was making a statement about his personal approach to his craft. Crazy, huh? There is no Royal Road.

>>81578509
don't bully cinemaIQlets
swaglord made sure imdb ideals were the only thing that matter

>>81578597
>Superman is portrayed as a symbol of hope to mankind. Would Tarkovsky hate that? Nope.
>I am an enemy of symbols.

CERTIFIED

K I N O
I
N
O

How does the madman do it every time?

>>81578509
Wait. Did you really just say that Kubrick never employed visual metaphor in his films?

>>81572441
Numerology is the lowest form of spiritualism and therefore the lowest form of cognition.

>>81578624
That's not what he meant at all and you just ousted yourself a shitter spamming a quote you have no idea what it even means.

How many times have you posted that quote now? For how many months? Atleast a 100 times by now, right? Imagine this poor fucker, posting the same quote for hundreds of days completely missing the point like that.

>>81578603
Then Tarkovsky is not a true film lover. That is pretty crazy.

>>81578657
>That's not what he meant at all
Then what did he mean by that? That he's a friend of symbols?

>>81578660
See >>81578545

>>81578545
I am just making fun of your "Said no true film lover. Ever." statement my dear amigo friend because it was ridiculous.
I am pretty sure 95% of directors (or any artists in general) would agree that films aren't meant to be puzzles which you have to put in a certain kind of way to "get" them.

>>81578686
But why do you think Tarkovsky isn't a true film lover?

>>81572794
>Excalibur the movie is shown once
>shoe horn in imagery from Le' Morte even though it has little to no relevance to anything other than wanting the shot.

Wow what kino

>>81578657
>How many times have you posted that quote now? For how many months? Atleast a 100 times by now, right? Imagine this poor fucker, posting the same quote for hundreds of days completely missing the point like that.
How do you know this?

>>81578673
Superman being portrayed as a symbol to mankind is not be likened to Tarkovsky disliking the use of symbols. See, Superman BEING A SYMBOL TO MANKIND is the story. It's not applicable at all to what Tarkovsky says and goes to show you're an illiterate monkey who got hung up on the word symbol taken out of context. Also please answer

>How many times have you posted that quote now? For how many months? Atleast a 100 times by now, right? Imagine this poor fucker, posting the same quote for hundreds of days completely missing the point like that.
I have seen that quote posted religiously around here for atleast half a year. And that's not portraying even half the picture. How long?

>>81578738
>It's not applicable at all to what Tarkovsky says
He said he's an enemy of symbols and Superman is portrayed as a symbol to mankind. Therefore Tarkovsky hates Superman.

>>81578702
>I am pretty sure 95% of directors (or any artists in general) would agree that films aren't meant to be puzzles which you have to put in a certain kind of way to "get" them.
Those are honestly the worst kind of movies

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It's no joke that Snyder is the only true auteur of the genre and the rest are simply mimicking his style and the Marvel shills buttmad they will only get shitty TV-rate directors.

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>>81578783
pls update

>>81578768
Yeah I also hate the movies where I have to think.

>>81578766
Dodged the question. How many times have you posted it? Should I run it?

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Wow, Zack Snyder has a lot of influences.

>>81578819
>Dodged the question.
Why do you think Tarkovsky isn't a real film lover? Because he hates symbols like Superman in Batman v Superman?

>>81578702
No it's not, but the amount by which you overestimate your own intelligence is, amigo,

Tarkosvky was saying he was an enemy of specific, inarguable symbolism. He's a proponent of what is in essence visual poetry whose meanings are intended to be as varied and subjective as his audience is.

So, yes, that means you have to take it in, turn it over, decide what it means to you personally, not get slapped over the head with what one specific meaning. I just gave three different interpretations of the symbolism, all from different angle with very different, but not exclusionary meanings.

You, on the other hand, look and see "space Jesus," and somehow I'm the pleb. Bonus round: want empty, pointless symbolism? Well look no further than the inestimable Mr. Singer, who gave us this beauty.

>>81578783
>all capeshit=Reddit
You have to go back now
Also
>whedon
>marvel not DC
Kek

>>81579112
It's not even what he meant and relying on Tarkovsky to paint MCU trash in better light is hardly doing you any favors.

>>81578738
>People always try to find "hidden" meanings in my films. But wouldn't it be strange to make a film while striving to hide one's thoughts?
Exactly what Snyder does.

>An image cannot be a symbol in my opinion. Whenever an image is turned into a symbol, the thought becomes walled in so to speak, it can be fully deciphered.
Exactly what Snyder is doing (for example the pic you posted here >>81577200 and >>81578299)

The logical conclusion is that by the overuse of visual symbolism Snyder has made his films ironically more simple and finite. Atleast by Tarkovsky.

>>81579142
What did he mean then?

>>81579093
>this is a DChad

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>>81579129
pic related.

>>81579129
>Tarkosvky was saying he was an enemy of specific, inarguable symbolism.
He said he was an enemy of symbols.

tarkovsky was a hack
snyder is kino

>>81579142
>relying on Tarkovsky to paint MCU trash in better light

Why do you keep talking about some other capeshit trash? Where did anyone even imply anything about marvel?
Are you so insecure about your beloved spandex movies that you think that anyone who disagrees with you has to be a similar hardcore capeshit fan of the other trash side?

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>>81576994
Capeshit fans always forget toys now cost the same as a film ticket to triple and that dvd sales for what appeal to children usually outstrip theater gross within 2 years.
The shit you are helplessly picking through for undigested kernals of originality and talent is made to garner interest in molded plastic in the world of ipads.
In this world, Spiderman is twice as popular as Batman, who is twice as popular as Superman, who is three times more popular than anything other than Avenger's group packaging, which is obviously only relevant since 2012.

>>81579180
I'll just bow out now with the firm knowledge that you don't even understand the man you're quoting.

And I'm not the only one who knows it,

>>81576900

Part one

Luthor's plot was to change public perception about Superman. To paint him as a dangerous, loose cannon. He's not summoned to a courtroom. He goes before a Senate committee dedicated to dealing with him, one that Lex has contacts with.

The threat of Superman leads one of the senators (the sketchy Jolly Rancher guy) to work with Lex, granting him access to the Kryptonian ship and Zod's body, which leads to the creation of Doomsday. As well as giving Lex a glimpse into the universe and the potential invasion by Apokolips.

The bullet subplot also ties in with the explosion at the courthouse because the same metal was used in the chair and the bullets. Its evidence that Lois can use and that helps lead to Luthor's arrest.

The "stealing checks" thing isn't just there to turn Bruce against Superman. It also helps make Wally into a potential terrorist. Think he'd be alone in his apartment with a wall of Superman images and bomb making gear if he was getting his money?

Lex didn't just want Superman to fight Batman. He wanted him to kill him. Or vice versa. And so he had to give them both reasons. Now Batman has enough reasons (he's crazy), and everything Lex did was just feeding a fire that was already there. Superman is essentially a good dude who doesn't just go around killing human beings when he can help it. So Lex wanted to plant the idea in his mind that Batman potentially deserved it. To push Superman to do it so everybody can see.

You can tell a pleb wrote this copypasta because you look at a scene and try to fit it into some notion of how movies should work, rather than pay attention to what's going on in front of you. Not every scene in a movie exists to push the plot forward. Some things exist to provide characterization. Also, expecting every plan of a character to work out perfectly is stupid. People are fallible. People in movies should be fallible.
.

>>81579256
Why do you keep dodging the question? Why do you think Tarkovsky wasn't a real film lover?

>>81579138
That looks like curry

>>81579256
Yes it's fairly apparent they're just relying on his quote without actually understanding it. No doubt they felt clever finding that quote thinking it would somehow prove them right when they barely understand the language in the quote.

Marvel third-worlders never change.

>>81579265

Part 2

The theatrical cut was 2 1/2 hours long. The ultimate cut was 3 hours. Not 3+ hours. At least get the little things right.

Wonder Woman was a side character. Why does she need to talk to anyone else? She's meant to be low key, sneaking around because she doesn't want to out herself. It makes sense that the person who would notice her is fucking Batman.

>but Lex knew who she was!

That doesn't mean Lex knew she was poking around. His focus was on Batman and Superman.

As for Superman's dialogue. One of the strengths of Zack Snyder is putting you in the shoes of the people in the movies he makes. BvS is a movie about the public's reaction to Superman. We get glimpses into Superman's inner world, but a lot of what we see is the same thing the public around him would. So that our reaction to Superman is the public's reaction. The reaction to Superman by the audience was very meta because it came off a lot like the dialogue from the movie where people are debating Superman's place in the world.

Superman seems lofty, quiet, and mysterious, except for these glimpses we do get of Superman's humanity which reveals a guy struggling with his place in the world.

>Civil War is a masterpiece of efficient storytelling.

Civil War is good, but not a masterpiece. There's a whole point where everyone is supposed to be on a time limit. What was it, 30 hours? 24? Ross wanted Tony to get it done, catch Cap and the dangerous fugitive, fast fast fast!

But there was enough time for Tony for the plot to grind to a halt while Marvel advertises for Spider-Man. Spider-Man had no influence on the plot at all. He was included just because. How long does it take time to introduce Spider-Man? 15 minutes?

As shoehorned in as Ant-Man was, at least he just showed up in a van with Hawkeye. Not another 15 minutes of wasted time

"Real banter between real people." Yeah because nothing is more "real" than joking about not wanting to hurt each other while you're fighting.

>>81579298
So what did Tarkovsky mean when he said "I am an enemy of symbols"?

>>81579339
You would love to know. Next time, learn what he meant in proper context before spouting it here. Now away with you third-worlder.

>>81579353
Why do you keep dodging the question?

>>81579265
>Lex didn't just want Superman to fight Batman. He wanted him to kill him. Or vice versa.

Personally, I don't think he gave Bruce a snowball's chance in hell.

>>81579368
Because he is a videogame player, a snitch, a cinematic juvenile, a pusher of anti-art

>>81579323
>>81579265
MCUck status

DESTROYED

E
S
T
R
O
Y
E
D

>>81579368
That's not me, although me and the other guy both answered your question. Being too stupid to understand the answer is all on you, but then again, you're the guy who thought he could cherry-pick not only your fellow board patrons, but a God like Tarkosvky and not come off looking like a dipshit,

>>81579431
So what did Tarkovsky mean when he said that he was an enemy of symbols?

>>81572441
Seriously, I'm conflicted
On the one hand, knowing that future generations will recognise his masterpiece and join us in the sun is heart-warming
But on the other hand, knowing that plebbitors and hipsters will embrace it too in 5 years time and claim that they always liked it will seriously piss me off

>>81579452
Try to find that out before spouting his quotes in a nonsensical way.

>>81579452
Go find it. Maybe pull your head out of your ass long enough to better read the replies to your posts this time.

Christ.

>>81579481
>>81579484
Why can't you answer the question?

>>81579526
>>81579129

Why can't you read?

>>81579555
Why isn't Snyder an enemy of symbols?

>>81579323

None of that guff you posted passes the "so what" test, anon

The courthouse explosion is pointless, in storytelling terms, what happens as a result of it? Nothing. Oh, Superman goes to sulk on a mountain. Meets his ghost dad. Comes right back again! Nothing has changed. He fights Batman because Lois was kidnapped; the Lex bullets, Lois journalism and wheelchair guy stuff leading up to that event is pointless.

>>81579526
>>81579555
I am the guy who posted the quote (here's the source people.ucalgary.ca/~tstronds/nostalghia.com/TheTopics/Symbols.html) and I just want to say that both of you are retarded.

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What was being symbolized here by Snyder? Or was it in essence visual poetry whose meanings are intended to be as varied and subjective as his audience is?

>>81579596
Don't be so symbol friendly

>>81579561
Because he's an enemy of good taste

Tarkosvky quote:
>I was asked once what the bird on boy's head in The Mirror meant. But any time I attempt to explain, I notice everything loses its meaning,

Sounds like Snyder when asked to discuss his own work,

>>81579688
>Zack, can you discuss your work?
>Uh...um...well...there's this...m-movie...Star Wars...my wife got me this job...

>>81579598
Well, it's an image from a film that revolves around both literal and metaphorical births, so what does it mean to you?

>>81579743
Is there any reason as to why they are:
1. big
2. black
3. penises
?

>>81579724
If Snyder could explain his genius in a few sound-bites, he wouldn't need to make 3 hour masterpieces to show them would he?
You want to know what Snyder thinks, how he operates? Watch his films

>>81579586

The explosion kept Superman from telling his side of the story. ANY story. Keeping him at a distance from humanity. Plus people started wondering if he was behind it

You might "so what" that because it doesn't come to anything but that's because Luthor ultimately fails

The explosion also keeps Luthor from being outed by Senator Finch. Her "today is a day for truth" speech was because she was going to reveal that Luthor had paid that African woman to lie. That he's been manipulating everything

And again it's a movie about humanity's perspective of Superman. You don't anything leading up to, during, or in the aftermath of the explosion was relevant to that?

>>81579789
Have you heard of John Henry Timmis IV?

>>81576806

>>81579586

Also you don't think Superman making the choice to come back and continue being Superman matters?

>>81579596
From your own source:

> A symbol contains within itself a definite meaning, certain intellectual formula, while metaphor is an image. An image possessing the same distinguishing features as the world it represents. An image — as opposed to a symbol — is indefinite in meaning. One cannot speak of the infinite world by applying tools that are definite and finite. We can analyse the formula that constitutes a symbol, while metaphor is a being-within-itself, it's a monomial. It falls apart at any attempt of touching it.

My post
>>81579129
>He's a proponent of what is in essence visual poetry whose meanings are intended to be as varied and subjective as his audience is.

So, yeah, I typed that up off the cuff because I don't need to cherry-pick and misrepresent Tarkovsky. I actually understand where he's coming from.

>>81579773
>Big
For a assassin that's big.

Why didn't Batman just tell Superman to stop invincible son?

>>81579876
Then how come Superman is symbolic of Jesus?

>>81579586
The explosion was Lex missing his very last chance to face truth. Clark already passed the test just by showing up.

The whole movie revolves around the principals facing the truth about themselves. It's by accepting the truth that they overcome their individual obsessions.

>>81579956
How did Lex overcome his love of BOYS?

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>>81579917
He's not always. It depends on who's looking. Abd it isn't always Jesus they see.

>>81580002
Then how come he is symbolic of both the devil and Jesus?

>>81579876
But you proved multiple times in this thread that Snyder uses "specific, inarguable" symbolism.

>>81580040
Shut up Marvelcuck

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>>81580019

>>81580040
Really? Pretty sure I gave different meanings from three completely different angles.

>>81572441

I can't wait to see this crash and burn.

>>81580002
>>81580064

>>81580092
>>81577200
>here's Lex as a saint

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>>81580123

>>81572794
>DC
>Chads.

Can you at least be consistent with your shitposting? If DC were "highbrow" it would be catering to exactly the kind of basement dwelling NEETs that could autistically dysipher Synder's dozens of callbacks to practically unknown 80s movies and classic Japanese Kino.

>>81576974

No, and you can thank Sony and Marvel's Comics department for that.

Don't look at what happened to Spidey's comic. It isn't a pretty picture.

>>81580156
Well you tell me. Does it mean the same thing to you as it means to me? Is the message the same?

>>81573126
>A film that's supporting an entire movie franchise
>That will likely have a budget in access of BvS's 400+ million
>"LOL GUYS LETS MAKE 7 SAMURAI!"

There is literally 0% chance that the studio is not meddling with it in detail. You are such a fucking massively delusional faggot and I hope you're hit by a car.

>>81579956

How does that affect the actions of any if the parties in the final act?

That's a rhetorical question - it doesn't

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>>81580179
Fuck off. Speak not ill of the ubermenschen,

>>81580229
So Snyder doesn't use "specific, inarguable" symbolism because people have different perspectives on the definition of a saint?

>>81578819
>Yeah I also hate the movies where I have to think.
It's not black and white faggot. Just because i don't like those type of movies doesn't mean i can only watch Transformers and Fast & Furious shit

>>81580272
By blowing up the senate hearing, Lex committed himself to his obsession with power. Surrendered to it, even. Surrendered his Mercy to it in the process as well.

>>81580331
No, but they can have different opinions on why he'd be portrayed in that light.

Why do you think he was? Or do you even think it's there at all?

So how will they fuck up this time?
I mean we already have quips but knowing DC they will do something really dumb

>>81578363
Hey, is this from his book or an interview?

Interesting stuff, I might re-read Sculpting in Time if that's where teh quote is from.

Sorry to interrupt this high level discussion but can any of you snyderfags explain to me the artistic value of the email character setups?

Because I see it as the most lazy ass literal on-screen textual exposition and studio intervention there is in cinema history.
The only thing that sequence missed was COMING SOON IN A THEATRE NEAR YOU

>>81579265
>>81579323
>He couldn't rebut the actual argument so he just pasted his autism thesis.

>>81580487
>>81579596
Anon linked the source here

>>81580487
An interview.

Interview Le noir coloris de la nostalgie with Hervé Guibert in "Le Monde", 12 May 1983 [Pol. trans. Malgorzata Sporek-Czyzewska].

I found that except here:

http://people.ucalgary.ca/~tstronds/nostalghia.com/TheTopics/Symbols.html

Same source the other guy cherry-picked from.

>>81580583
>>81580582
Neat. Thanks bros.

I only got about a chapter or 2 into Sculpting in Time because that book is dense as fuck. Extremely methodical and goes through the history of photography and painting-theory before doing anything about film.

Hard read.

>>81572441
>>seven samurai of the cape genre

I would legitimately watch such a film. But Snyder is lying

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>>81572909
"I'm sorry, I can't let you do that, Thor"

>Dude
>OMG was that a 2001 reference
>Heh woah I fucking love marvel, they always reward their smarter viewers

>>81580545
That's my one criticism of the film, really.

I felt like those would have been better handled interspersed throughout the movie, maybe have Lex watch one, Bruce watch another, and Diana watch two at some other point.

They needed to be there, though. They're the final clue the audience gets to what Lex really intended to do, and they also serve as a nice jab at the elite who'd commercialize our heroes and give them false purpose.

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>>81578377
>BvS-related posts getting dubs
what a "coincidence"

>>81580184
>No
Were always quick to post that "Spider-Man sells the most toys" infographic 100 times before. Now when a DCuck says he's popular you decide to disagree?

>>81580647
>mfw this is unironically the state of pseudo intellectual "nerds"
I had a girl who thought she was super smart trying to tell me I probably didn't 'get' the big bang theory if i thought that anyone with a gcse understanding of maths and science could get all their totally-so-smart jokes

Fucking hell that was a trip

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Fuck the more I see of the triggered Marvel idiots the more I love Snyder.

>>81573178
Yeah, you've definitely never seen even ONE. Poser.

>>81580728
That's pretty sad.

>>81580678
jokes aside, any film that generates the amount of controversy and discussion as batman v superman has surely massively excelled far above its genre and every other superhero film

>>81580272

It drives Superman away to consider his position in isolation.

Leading him to accept Earth as his world.

Literally Jonathan Kent days "she was my world" referring to Ma Kent and Superman echoes him to Lois ("This is my world...you are my world") before he kills Doomsday and sacrifices his life

>>81580336

What difference does that make to any of the actions of any of the parties in the final act?

That's another rhetorical question

>>81575043
yes they did,people still wont shut up about it

>>81580728
Here's one of mine:

Back in college, I was dating this girl I'd graduated high school with, and I *knew* she wasn't too bright, but she was sweet enough and I tended to forget we weren't exactly on the same page all the time. One day, we were driving back from the movies and I was telling her about this dumb girl from my calculus class who didn't know that moonlight was just reflected sunlight.

My girlfriend got real quiet and finally said, "You mean it doesn't just glow?"

I have never felt worse. Not entirely related, but I thought you'd appreciate it.

>>81580862
>Literally Jonathan Kent days "she was my world" referring to Ma Kent and Superman echoes him to Lois ("This is my world...you are my world") before he kills Doomsday and sacrifices his life
Damn, I never picked that one up.

>>81580862

What difference does that make to the actions of any of the parties in the final act? Are you saying Superman would've run away from cave troll otherwise?

>>81580661
>They needed to be there, though. They're the final clue the audience gets to what Lex really intended to do, and they also serve as a nice jab at the elite who'd commercialize our heroes and give them false purpose.
Now this is b8 I can get behind. Well done anon.

>>81580798
Contrarians latching onto an obviously bad movie for (You)'s doesn't say much about the film.

>>81580562

>none of this stuff in the movie matters

Oh here's why it matters

>autism thesis!

Good argument

>>81580897
Because if Lex hadn't blown up the hearing, none of the rest of the story unfolds as it did. That was him ridding himself not only of loose ends, but of the one person who would bring him face to face with the truth.

In return, here's a "rhetorical" question for you:

Are you aware you're nowhere near as smart as you think you are?

>>81572441
>Seven Samurai

lmao, truly the reddit/imbd list of what "smart people" should watch

at least Excalibur was actually deserving

What prompts someone to spend their days, 10 hours at times, trying to poke flaws at a year old film and come up short every time? I geniunely wonder what this type of person is. Who is he? What does he do for living? How old is he?

>>81580927

He may have ended up fighting him still.

But the character had changed. It's called development. He's not questioning the reason for what he's doing. He knows it.

Movies are more than plot points

>>81581157
I've come to look at Clark just showing up at the hearing as his first step toward accepting not only his role in the world, but the responsibilities that come along with it.

>>81581155
That's the most embarrassing part
When TDKR was put under this sort of intense analysis, memes upon memes about its terribleness were born

When Batman V Superman is put under this microscope, literally no substantial flaws can be found anywhere. And the criticisms always eventually evolve into ad hominem attacks on the people that like the film
It's insane

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>>81580179
>dysipher

>>81579773
They're holding criminals.

>>81577132
We're talking about Snyder anon.

>>81581213
In a way, I'm perversely grateful to them. By trying to rip it apart, they've only made me that much more aware of how virtually seamless it is.

Again - not a fan of how the email was handled, but that remains my only legitimate gripe.

>>81579789
You're pathetic.

>>81581213
>When Batman V Superman is put under this microscope, literally no substantial flaws can be found anywhere.
>MARTHAAAAA
>advertisement for Justice League characters in a fucking email attachment
>doomsday villain hurled into final act along with wonder woman because fuck it why not
>terrible doomsday cgi
Yeah, no flaws here anon.

>entire business model is copying Marvel
>every time their movies succeed and DC movies fail (which is always) WB just tries to copy whatever they did
>"oh we want to be dark and different from Marvel"
>"oh never mind we want jokes and pop songs like GotG"
>"let's just prostitute ourselves and do literally whatever it takes for people to like us and then claim we are making high art"
>keep on failing

insulting to literally everyone

>>81581325
name a single dceu film that has failed
i'll wait

>>81575045
DC movie fans more specifically.

Most DC comics fans, myself included, hate these movies because they're ruining any chance of getting actually good live action movies.

It's depressing that I've been looking forward to a live-action Justice League ever since the cartoon ended, and Marvel doing it's movies made me more optimistic for it happening. And this this happened.

I don't entirely put the blame on Snyder though. He kinda got forced into this because he was the only director willing to touch Man of Steel, and then when DC decided to start into the Cinematic Universe meme, he got put in charge because he directed Man of Steel. Snyder has his upsides as a director, but he shouldn't be in charge of anything that large-scale.

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>>81580908
>doesn't know that the moon gives off it's own light

>>81581278
This so much. It just made me realize the mad men thought of everything. It made me see nuances I didn't see on my own. I wonder if this is what the shitposters hoped they would achieve? They have indirectly strengthened the film.

>>81576806
not to mention the threat they're going up against has already been defeated before by a vastly weaker army (darkseid vs primitive humans, amazons and atlantians)

>>81581325
Remind me how many oscars the mcu has?
It must be a lot given how many films they have right?

I mean, if even something as terrible as suicide squad can win an oscar than marvel must be rolling in them

reminder that all Snyder DCEU movies have been ripping off the superior Micheal Bay ones

>>81581325
Say it after me marvelcuck

ACADEMY AWARD WINNING FILM SERIES

>>81581321
don't forget
>nothing feels real or genuine, everything is a fucking music video
>superman does nothing and just waits for things to happen to him
>extreme focus on trailer shots at the expense of everything else, resulting in the movie looking terrible
>shit acting by gadot
>lex's plan is sloppily conveyed and ultimately nonsensical
>jesse eisenberg

at least SS seemed good at one point thanks to David Ayer, before WB fucked it up. why they keep hiring Snyder is beyond me

>>81572925
wow its like he shot the whole movie through an instagram filter

>>81581399
Well Snyder started off ripping off Rodriguez with both Dawn of the Dead and 300 and got into more Michael Bay shit when he was given a bigger budget with Watchmen

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>>81580271
Every studio meddles to some extent on their tentpoles faggot. Marvel movies are multicamera affairs where the producers can pick shots THEY want and ultimately they have the bottomline.

How much power do you actually think the Russos actually have in their flicks? Zack has worked for WB for a decade and they know what they see is what they get but they love and respect his kino, giving him some leeway to make his film.

>>81581408
no one cares about the makeup or effects oscars. i mean fucking fantastic beasts won over doctor strange and that movie had some horrible green screen shots that they didn't fix.

>>81581191

I saw it as him still struggling. Like it's a huge gesture that he's come down. But it's because he feels the weight of the consequences of his actions. Like he wanted to be tried and either punished or exonerated

Like Senator Finch could tell him if he's doing the right thing

Afterwards he realizes he is doing the right thing. Had been. He knows what right is. And the consequences are a burden that only he can bear, though ultimately his love for Lois makes it easier

>>81581508
>WB
*his wife

>>81581346
all of them? every dceu film has been shit

>>81581390
>>81581408
I'm not sure why you think I'm a "marvelcuck" just because I think snyder films are awful and the dceu is a trainwreck. what am I to make of a studio hilariously and obviously trying to copy a more successful franchise in every way, FAILING, and then having rabid bootlicking fanboys try and say the films are "inspired" or "artistic" or whatever?

>>81581624
marlet

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>>81581367
I had one of them the other day vehemently arguing that Bruce was directly shooting people from the Batmobile during the chase scene, I was trying to drive home the point that not only was that not true, but it was the internal compromise Bruce was making in the instances where his actions pretty much unquestionably led to the deaths of his opponents - always in self-defense(even if he put himself in harm's way to make it happen), always indirectly.

Eventually, I made this. You can see that what he's actually targeting is the rear driver's side suspension. When it fails, the driver loses control and flips. That's how much attention to detail they put into all this.

>>81581373
If you think that was all the combatants on that field, I think you're in for a few surprises.

The gods went somewhere.

>>81581624
>all of them? every dceu film has been shit
you not liking them =/= failed

I hate the new beauty and the beast
unfortunately it's been quite successful
grow up kiddo

>>81581595
That's a good way to look at it. Imagine how differently things would have turned out if Finch not only got the chance to exonerate him but bust out Lex in front of the whole world.

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>>81581610
*Cristopher Nolan

>>81581022 (You)

Yo dawg what if you're being the contrarian of contrarian in your contrarian?

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>>81581844
*his wife

>>81581475

WOW, it's like you are an uneducated pleb that can't appreciate different film styles/cinematography

>>81581690
Attention to detail, BvS has limitless amount of it. A labor of love between Snyder and Terrio and the rest who saw fit to do something extraordinary with a creatively bankrupt genre.

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>>81581917
Look at this detail

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>>81581738
>you not liking them =/= failed

i'm afraid a great many people did not like them

>>81582048
so you have to appease a bunch of idiot critics to be considered a success?
i guess ghostbusters 2016 was a roaring success then

zack snyder is a gnu

>>81582161
You beat me to it. TFA is another fine example.

It's not as bad as GB16, but holy shit, those guys should watch it again with their fanboy-vision deactivated.

>>81581996
Dude, but wait!
Isn't that an angel in the background? That means something celestial bro! And it's like dark looking, like there could be skulls behind Lex. That's like death bro, ya know

>>81582296
>someone who's not at all butthurt, petty, or childish

I love you guys so much. You really drive home the point of which fanbase I'd rather be a part of.

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>>81582356
This one?

>>81582375
How's this work out for your demographics:

I'm a 63 year-old retired construction worker whose family hails Scotland. You kids are endless entertainment for me.

>>81582356
The fuck, I'm for real bro!

I love that shit, like skulls and conan is my shit dude. Snyder is the fuckin man, I loved how watchmen was like, fuckin blow up the world man

>>81582375
180 times

+100 times on his phone

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>>81582462
No, you're most likely a spic.

>>81582546
?

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>>81582546
Thank you, fellow DCbro. Your reward!

The latest rare Snyder I've captured.

>>81582462
>construction worker

Sounds about right for Snyder love

>>81572441
Seven samurai isn't even that good tbqhfam

>>81582573
And you're most likely a 22-year old white boy with serious identity issues.

Doesn't change the fact of the two of us, I remember the Johnson administration, nickel-returnable coke bottles, and bottle-openers just fucking everywhere.

>>81582660
>LARPing as a 63 year old
You'll get more replies if you say you're a girl, you know.

>>81582660
Oh yeah, and movie houses with ashtrays built into the armrests. That's always a favorite.

>>81582687
Hey man, if that's how you get your rocks off, who am I to judge?

>>81572441
>blatantly steals from yet another filmmaker/artist
>"you can't deny his genius!"
When are the DC fuckboys gonna call it quits?

It's funny really. Seven Samurai is a relatively minor story about Seven (eight) Samurai preparing a poor defenseless village for an attack by 40 or so bandits. It's irrelevant and small in scope compared to the backdrop of Feudal Japan, but the way the story and the characters are presented, makes it feel like a great epic.

Meanwhile Justice League is probably going to be 90 minutes of action packed fights between extremely powerful heroes and villains alike, over the fate of the entire world. It's literally the opposite of Seven Samurai.

>>81572925
it's obviously Murderman

>>81572925
in this case, samurai=human
superman=/=human
superman=/=samurai

we're still short on one human, hopefully it's Green Lantern

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>>81582826
Well, there's "homage," and then there's "plagiarism." Learn the difference, son.

>>81572941
>I directed Watchmen Kevin
>And when every movie you do is watchmen again, then no one will be.

>>81572764
>expecting a filmmaker to not take pride in their work