Fighting/Martial Arts Films

>>81537890
neverback down is my favorite western fighting film, beautiful people, aggressive music, a heartwarming story and a simple yet effective message "violence solves everything"

i think its on par with its eastern equivalent the raid 2, which i consider better than the raid 1

if anyone is interested in a similar movie like the raid 2 i recommend "headshot", its also with iko uwais

>>81537890
That dude should've been Danny Rand

Never back down is late bloomer kino and all you pretentious weak beta bois can fuck off

>>81537890
Never back down is coming of age Kino Dome Right

Hardcore Henry was pretty cool

>>81537890
>>81537980
I'm gonna do it. The Raid isn't as good as everyone says it is. It is VERY good in general. I'd have a hard time picking any other similar movie and saying it's better. But as much as it tried to ground itself the style ended up taking reins away from realism. It got worse and worse culminating with the Mad Dog fight sequence. I get it nobody knows how to grab someone for more time than it takes to throw them.

The Raid 2 is honestly kind of a piece of shit especially relative to the first one. Someone post that .webm of the street fight with the bat dude and no sound. Only worse dicksucking I've seen was for that goddamn dumbass piece o' shit scene from Wick everybody gobbles up.

>"AAAAHHH A GUY WITH A GUN?! I NEVER PREPARED FOR THIS!!!"
>"OH NO WHAT'S DOWN THIS HALLWAY?!"

Better action sequences in fucking Immortals especially the Mickey Rourke one near the end.

>>81537890
Grandmasters was elegant and very focused on movement. One of the best I've seen

>>81537890
This movie is my bible

Definitely eastern. The fighting styles are more visually interesting, there are typically more weapon and prop fight scenes which are sorely lacking in western fighting flicks, and the eastern filmmakers tend to have more time to develop the choreography compared to the factory of hollywood.

Its why Jackie Chan's Chinese movies are far more impressive than his Hollywood ones: he just has more time to spend on each take painstakingly perfecting every single minute of each fight scene. Hollywood wants to finish action scenes as quickly as possible, as cheaply as possible, and in as few takes as possible. Its why shakey cam and quick-cut editing is so popular in the west, it's easier to obscure the fighting and convince the audience that something cool is happening when they can barely make out the poorly trained actors slowly grappling.

>>81538888
>the SECOND Mad Dog fight sequence.
ftfm

The first Mad Dog sequence was pure kino.

>>81538888
>>81538888
I understand where you're coming from...but The Raid films are clearly not taking place in a "realistic" world, and if anyone calls them "grounded" or "realistic" they are really viewing the film through the wrong lens. I prefer the first Raid by far, but I appreciate that the second one throws all pretense of realism out the window. The style is not taking away from the realism, the style is he main focus of the film. If you thought it was supposed to realistic and are complaining that it was too stylized...that's your fault not the filmmaker's.

>>81537890
Pretty much anything from JVCD in his prime, mainly Bloodsport, Kickboxer and Lionheart.

>>81539086
>East
>Jackie masterfully fights henchmen, then a skilled opponent, then the boss

>West
>OH NO JACKIE FELL DOWN SOME STAIRS/BUILDING/HELICOPTER/

>>81539636
This. Bloodsport is my favourite but Kickboxer is also great.

>>81537890
>What's your favourite films about fighting?
Scott Pilgrim vs The World

Warrior is the GOAT mma film

>>81539968
The acting was good, the fight scenes were shit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NA2ng1DLCUo

>>81539086
>This

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFW92CfLMSI

A Touch of Zen is pure unfiltered kino.

>>81539086
>Its why Jackie Chan's Chinese movies

Hong Kong*

Where are my Venom Mob bros ?

Road House

>>81537890

The Raid films were made by a British guy apparently.

>>81537890
Favorites would include

Fearless
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10E3qjthN3M

Kiss of the Dragon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc9KkTpNZ3M

Undisputed 2 + 3 (hope the 4th one will be great too, coming out this month)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbI_04n3lLU

Jackie Chan in general has some great stuff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLY4ZdnbRK0


Amazing how hollywood doesn't bother hiring an action director from martials arts films, I hate the 20 camera cuts on a 5 second clip thing.

>>81540027
>le eric overchoreographed fight
>having capeshit sensibilities
Reddit

>>81540410
Yes but choreographed by easterners and produced by eastern companies. Nobody is arguing that western directors aren't capable of making great fight flicks, but working within the Hollywood system makes it extremely difficult for them to do so.

The final fight in The Raid took over a week to film. Over a week for roughly ten minutes of usable footage. If The Raid was made in Hollywood that fight scene would have been shot in a day or two and it would not be nearly as impressive as the version we got. Hollywood is all about the bottom line. Making the fight scene as cheap and quick as possible to maximize profit.

>>81540490
Chad Stahelski is an exception. He still haven't used martial artist as actors. If Scott Adkins get his acting chops together, Chad can make something special.

>>81540884
There are a couple great action directors in Hollywood but they are few and far between. Its just easier to do the Taken style shakey cam and fast editing and they still make a ton of money. If audiences don't care about quality why should the studios?

>>81541114
Its more or less about the audience. It absolutely doesn't help that action actors are not getting their movies prioritized by studios. Eastern Action turns out so good since most people prefer the actor getting hit.

>>81537890
Original Drunken master was a work of art. All Jackie Chan fights are just choreographed and filmed to absolute perfection.

Ong Bak for muay thai. Although 2 and 3 I thought were gash.

>>81540027
Based Scott

>>81540661
>>le eric overchoreographed fight

Not sure what you're referring to, but I agree that over choreographed fights are annoying as fuck It's why I can't watch Shaw brothers movies. It looks like they're dancing.

That said, Warrior instead has shitty unchoreographed fights and shaky cam faggotry:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dldz_AytSRU

So many good old Jackie movies, but I've always enjoyed Project A.

https://youtu.be/SBFYTXeVhB4

>>81541563
Guess I should have posted a fight scene

https://youtu.be/oa2p7GJXTyQ

I like western fight movies because there's better looking people in them and it turns me on to see good looking guys get beat up.

>>81539567
I know the film was made purposefully. I'm not saying they didn't KNOW what they were doing. I'm saying I disagree with the artistic direction considering their obvious talent for creating much more grounded sequences. Seemed like a waste.

>>81541281
The weird thing is that I don't even think the west has "action actors" any more. In the 70s and 80s we had guys like Stallone and Schwarzenegger (even these guys aren't particularly well-trained, but they have the physicality to pull it off), but there really aren't any action stars today.

Keanu Reeves is the only one who immediately occurs to me as someone who does most of his own stunts and choreography convincingly. Maybe Tom Cruise? Most action flicks these days just hire well-known actors and then either edit around them or replace them with stunt doubles for every action scene.

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>>81541763

>>81540075
how can you enjoy these obviously choreographed fights? the way they punch and kick is so obvious "scene by scene" it hurts.

>>81541758
Fair enough. I would also like to see Evans try his hand at a more grounded action film. But as an action movie showcase for Silat, I think over-the-top drawn out fight scenes were the way to go.

>>81541828
What would you recommend to give me a better reference of well choreographed fights that still maintain their realism?

>>81541763
>but there really aren't any action stars today.
Nigga watch Direct to Video. Michael Jai White and Scott Adkins holding shit down.

Scott Adkins even accidentally made a kino
>dat choreography
>dat natural lighting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE1M3mS77W4

>>81539816
What's wrong with liking both? The man has fantastic comedic timing and is so likable in just about any role.

>>81538167
damm...you're right

>>81539816
>>81541979
Any movie where Jackie Chan fights someone and uses a chair as a prop is garbage and annoying as fuck

Someone should make a supercut video of his hackery

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYmYEDRNNXc

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>>81541828

>>81541890
>What would you recommend to give me a better reference of well choreographed fights that still maintain their realism?
i dont have any. nowadays i recognize the blunt fight choreography in pretty much every action movie. it always goes scene by scene which is SOOO noticable thx to those "kick and rest of your leg for an unnatural amount of time in the air because it is the others actors time to move" performances.

fucking annoying as it is not smooth at all.

>>81541828
The same way I enjoy any movie. Every movie is obviously choreographed from beginning to end. From the script to the cinematography to the acting, it all exists to move the plot forward "scene by scene." And it is almost always extremely obvious and unrealistic. But if it is entertaining and verisimilitudinous enough I don't mind. Jackie's fight scenes are believable because he is really doing them on camera. Not a lot of trickery. Watching real MMA is fucking boring 9 times out of 10. Just like real life is fucking boring 9 times out of 10.

>>81540694
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzjhsGclbPo
it's actually sickening

>>81541829
Why can't Batista make an Arnis film? The opportunity is hanging in the open.

>>81542097
I hate this shit, but you have to admit the style is impressionistic and like comic book panels, where the staging comes in disconnected bursts

>>81541763
Jason Statham has starred in several action films. I'll also watch any of them, good or bad. I'm a huge mark for the guy.

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Armour of God

>>81541926
unrealistic but bretty gud

>>81541926
>getting hit with a 45lbs plate in the face repeatedly and still fighting
>throwing a man with one arm like he's an inflatable doll
>decapitating a guy with one hit of a baseball bat

are they superhuman in this?

>>81542155
this for example is a better action scene as it looks way more natural than >>81540075

>>81541926
But thats my whole point. Action stars used to be household names. In the east they still are. But the west has ghettoized action. They literally don't care enough to give those movies a wide release. They'd rather put 15 cuts for Liam Neeson to jump over a fence in theaters. And these shit action movies consistently make a profit.

>>81542097
>bulletproof spandex
that's pushing it even for MCU

>>81542173
Yeah, they're bioengineered supersoldiers.

>>81542173
You are right on your first point. 2&3 are possible.

>>81541979
Not the anon you're asking but honestly that anon mischaracterized the difference between eastern Jackie and western Jackie. Eastern Jackie has the amazing helicopter stunts and building stunts and the amazing fight scenes. The only real difference is that Hollywood will not spend as much time and effort perfecting the fight scenes and will not insure Jackie's insanely dangerous stunts, so both the fights and the stunts get watered down. Personally I still enjoy Jackie's western films because even watered down Jackie is still better than almost all of his western contemporaries.

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We'll never see Jackie Chan levels of fight kino again because he had his own dedicated stunt team he took with him from film to film, and had full support from the HK studios to take as long as he needed to shoot.

We've come close though. Gareth Evans is doing so cool shit with Silat and Ang Lee managed to make pic related back in 2000. And with films like John Wick and Atomic Blonde, hopefully we'll see hollywood studios supporting a more "eastern" approach to action in the next 10 or so years.

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>>81537890
The Raid is shaky-cam garbage. Best martial arts film is Ong Bak 1.

>>81542425
Man, I don't care if the fights in kung-fu movies are totally unrealistic. Well-done ones just manage to have a sense of timing and movement that's so pleasing to the eye.

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>>81542425
Everything comes back.

Look at Marvel, using 80s pop culture and songs to peddle their capeshit. Action choreography will have its day again eventually.

>>81542155
At least the camera movement is restrained, but it's zoomed in too tight. Needs more wide shots.

>>81542502
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0e4xiii3U8

FUCK MUAY THAI

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>>81542503
I love Crouching Tiger. Still the recent benchmark for weapons fight choreography imo.

Michelle Yeoh puts in a great performance as well.

>>81542097
Holy shit how many camera cut is there

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>>81538660
>>81538532
>>81537980

It's pretty underrated and ahead of it's time tbqhfamalam

>>81542503
It gets pushed an awful lot, but that Every Frame a Painting video about Jackie Chan really highlights how way too many Western directors don't understand why people like Asian fight scenes (pointing out the differences and lack of rhythm between the HK Jackie films and American Jackie films)

The John Wick director seems to have a grasp of this

>>81542515
John Wick?

>>81542097
As far as Western-style "way too many cuts" fight scenes go, at least this one was still shot in a way where you can still understand the action.

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>>81537890
Eastern movies are generally better for fight scenes. The west can do really good ones though, but that usually comes with some sort of eastern influence involved.

Pic related is great. Cheesy and goofy at times, but not so much that it takes you out of the movie. It has some fantastic action scenes as well.

Slight spoilers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zc9KkTpNZ3M

>>81542894
Is this the District 13 guy?

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>>81542966
I don't think so

>>81542894
I liked Kiss of the Dragon too. It knew what it was, a loose plot that strings together excuses for Jet Li to beat up people.

Coulda gone with another route with the acupuncture shit, but it was serviceable

>>81542772
>The John Wick director seems to have a grasp of this
I love how the gunshots sync up with the music in the Red Circle shootout

>>81543036
I'm talking about the actor

>>81543085
The twin? Yeah, it's him. Cyril Raffaelli.

>>81542502
The camerawork in The Raid is extremely kinetic, but I would not describe it as shakey. You can always see whats happening very clearly. The camerawork does not obscure the action, it just highlights the movement of said action.

>>81542622
the sound of the shots is ruining everything

>>81543036
did he make this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UKilYzrQH4 this was one of my first fight films i ever watched, remember sneaking it out of my brothers room and watching it on the portable DVD player then getting my little brother to watch it too

>>81543349
He wasn't involved in that movie.

Is that movie good? I was thinking about watching it earlier this morning.

>>81543434
same producer thats the link.

i enjoyed at the time but i havent watched it for many years but what i can remember it was pretty darn good

>>81542134
>but you have to admit the style is impressionistic and like comic book panels
no

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>>81544111
Look at all those cuts nigga

>>81541926
Too bad the rest of the movie was kind of bad/weird.

Blood and Bone is fun but the action feels kind of slow. Especially if you've just watch a bunch of Jet Li stuff.

>>81542966
>>81543070
Chad Stahelski is rebooting Highlander next. We will see if he has skill filming sharp and blunt weapons.

>>81541926
If ever Chad Stahelski uses them as actors. Scott Adkins and Michael Jai White better prepare for their acting classess. Stahelski seems to like action characters that gives viewers emotional response.