Do the Right Thing has left me confused

Spike Lee explains everything in Malcolm X. If you make it as a brother, you have to degrade other brothers and help keep them down or else The Man will kill you.

Black lives matter more than white property is supposed to be the message.

>They are feckless, obnoxious, unintelligent, entitled, touchy, aggressive, and duplicitous.
exactly

>>81447614
But the white property had nothing to do with harming any black lives.

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>>81447397
That's basically my take away too.

>>81447397
You missed the point.
All of the characters basically only had to do ONE thing to avoid the outcome of the movie.
All the Italian guy had to do was put up a picture of a black dude. Would it have killed him to put up even one picture to satisfy the people who literally give him all his business?
All Rahim had to do was turn off the stereo. Did he really NEED to have it on so loud or on at all?
All that instigating ass nigga who brought up the wall of pictures to begin with had to do was let it go. Was it that important to him how someone else chooses their idols?
All any of the central characters had to do was let one small thing go and not be so damn stubborn but none of them could let it go. If any of them had changed their behavior in the slightest the ending would have been avoided.
Mookie throws the trash can through the window to redirect the crowd's anger towards the pizzeria and actually saved the owners by doing so from physical harm.
So the title is more of a question. Did Mookie do the right thing? Did any of them? And if we want to believe that they all did by sticking to their principles then how could doing the 'right thing' lead to this outcome? Where does the blame lie?

>>81447968
The law doesn't say a business owner has to put up pictures to prevent illegal behavior.

>>81447968
No, an Italian guy does not need to put up pictures of negroes in his own restaurant

Don't like it, eat somewhere else. The sense of entitlement these cunts had was astounding

In the end their actions resulted in another closed business in a black neighborhood

"do the right thing" achieves the impossible by creating a situation that forces the average moviegoer to empathize with italian-americans

>>81447397
I think it's a great movie, but Spike's own interpretation does seem like BLM nonsense when he talks about it.
It's an honest enough depiction of race tensions rising into a situation where someone gets killed or riots happen, and just because at the end of it Spike Lee is a nigger that thinks mookie did the right thing, it doesn't mean you have to interpret it that way.

>>81448033
Everything isn't a question of legality.

This film is the best example of black hypocrisy in America. It started the downward trend that led us to the problems of today

>>81448033
The law is pretty irrelevant to the matter at hand.
It's about social interaction and the way that people's choices effect each other. If you want to believe that the law is the supreme moral judgement of the universe then you're right but this wasn't really a story about the law. It's a story about people and their choices. If you want to view a story like this through the lens of the law then you're always going to miss the point and be missing all sides of the story but one. it might make things more clear cut but if that is the kind of story you're looking for then you should stick to old school legal dramas not movies about social interaction.

>>81447968
>>81447968
I thought there had to be more to it. Thanks for the info.

One thing that still bothers me though is that Sal had no obligation to put up a picture of a black person. He had a wall of famous Italian Americans, because he was Italian American, so where would a black person fit into any more than just a white guy who wasn't Italian American? If he had had just white people on the wall and didn't have any black people, I could understand, but it was specifically a wall of people of his own ethnic minority. But even still, it's his shop, he can do what he wants with it. It is other people's obligation to turn their fucking music down if they are on his property and he has told them to turn it down.

>>81448101
Actually yes it is, that's the purpose of the law.
>>81448165
The common law reflects accepted social interactions, that's how laws come to be established. What else do you think its purpose is?

>>81448079
This got a good laugh from me, thanks

>>81448196
>I thought there had to be more to it. Thanks for the info.
I suspect you're responding to your own post, but if not, please be aware that the poster you're responding to is not only wrong but also wrong-minded.

>>81448165
Well, the law is supposed to keep things fair. So generally its a good measure of fairness if something is legal or illegal.

>>81448243
If you believe that the law is meant to reflect all social interaction and moral decision making, then you are, at the very least, not American, and therefore not the film's target audience. Sorry Muhammad, this film isn't for you.

Liberals will desperately try to spin this movie in a positive light but that's impossible. It is the most open, brazen, contemptuous example of black and liberal hypocrisy in all of cinema history.

And much of Spike Lee's angst comes from the fact that his father Bill Lee married a white woman, whom he hated.

This film is designed to create racial hatred and division. That's it's express purpose and goal. It's also designed to make blacks feel their behavior is justified no matter what they do.

>>81448304
>moral
No, the law reflects ethics and yes, it's entirely about acceptable social interaction. And don't call me Muhammad just because you can't grok philosophy of law beyond the level of a five year old.

>>81448324
Definitely not. Spike Lee isn't afraid to criticize blacks in his films, and both this and Chiraq are really good examples of it. He's still empathetic, as a member of the community and, you know, a decent human being, but that doesn't mean he's just sucking their dick.

>>81448367
The law should not and does not encompass the entirety of either morality or social interaction. I'll call you Muhammad all day long and worse, and the law has nothing to say about it. Except, of course, in your country with its hate speech laws, but like I said, this movie's for Americans.

>>81448052
And in the end Sal's resistance to show even the slightest bit of deference to the people who give him all his business cost him that business.
How hard is it to hang a picture on the wall?
If Sal had known how it would all have turned out he probably would have just done it but the point is that every character is so stuck in their ways that this is the end result of not being able to see another person's perspective.

>>81448196
Of course Sal had no real obligation to do it but tha overwhelming majority of his business came from black patrons. Some of the black patrons mention how they grew up on Sal's pizza, so to them he is a part of the neighborhood, but they are not a part of his neighborhood to him and his sons. He sees them as a source of income not as people who have fond memories of his place or an emotional attachment to it. He had a chance to reciprocate the attachment that the community felt towards him at the begging of the film but didn't and that was his right of course. But we know how it turns out and Sal and the others don't. Had they known how all these seemingly small things would escalate they likely all would have behaved differently. None of the people involved deserved what happened to them.
All Sal did was not want to put up a picture. Not worth losing his pizza place over.
Radio Rahim wanted to play his stereo, definitely an asshole but not worth dying over.
All that instigating nigga wanted was a picture on the wall, he had no right to it but he isn't wrong in thinking that for all the loyalty Sal's customer's show him, Sal doesn't seem to like them more than if they were all there for the first time, minus Mookie's sister.

>>81448441
Please reread the thread so that you understand what the argument is about.

I felt really embarrassed reading your post.

>>81448403
Completely wrong. "Do" is an ugly, hateful movie that panders to the most negative, hateful and destructive behavior of black people in America. It's Lee's personal vendetta on film. People who defend it are genuinely bad human beings

>>81448454
Should just kill a few cops to placate BLM, right? That's the type of apologist you are.

>>81448454
>And in the end Sal's resistance to show even the slightest bit of deference to the people who give him all his business cost him that business.
No, a mob of looters cost him his business. The moral is to move your business to gentrified areas and leave places like Ferguson to decay.

>>81448243
So you're just refusing to take the film as it is. Instead you drag the law into a story where it isn't really the focus in any way. That's a good way to avoid having to think about things complexly. If the law is supreme it makes things clear cut but you're going to miss out on a lot of nuisance and this might not be the right board for you if that is how you insist on seeing film.

>>81448497
Shitty dodge, friend. The law is irrelevant to the conflicts that spark the fires in this film, because there's no law that says you have to be reasonable in your interactions with others. There are no laws stopping us from being assholes. The law has nothing to say about the hurtful words we use when we speak to others.

The desire to simplify these things to basic rules and laws is honestly a serious sign of autism. If you haven't already been diagnosed, you should get on the waiting list now so you can see a doctor in 18 months.

>>81448454
you keep repeating yourself as if we don't understand it's not all one sided.
The point is when all is said and done, Sal has the right to be a dick even to the people who grew up on his pizza and not put up pictures. Raheem and Buggin Out were breaking the law by causing a disturbance, and then broke the law again by trashing the place. You want to send Sal a message? Don't buy the fucking pizza, and certainly don't work for him (if you could call Mookie's lazing throughout the whole movie "working")

Los Angeles Anon here.

Please let me tell you a little story. Back in 1993 we had the LA riots. Black people freaked out and destroyed hundreds of businesses in their own neighborhoods.

Now more than 20 years later the vast majority of those businesses have never reopened.

South LA and Watts blacks complain about not having any decent stores in their area. But if you were a business owner you would never take the risk of opening a business in a black neighborhood

Do the right thing pretty much proves this point entirely

>>81448549
>WAAAH
>ANON IS TALKING ABOUT FILM INTERPRETATION ON THE FILM BOARD
>WHY WOULD HE DO THAT?!?!

>>81448565
The mob wouldn't have formed if any of the characters had just been a bit more flexible in their choices, not just Sal. If you want to believe that causality doesn't exist that's fine but there's no children's /tv/ board so you might want to leave.

>>81448521
It's a film about showing all sides involved what an asshole they are, and its efficacy at making absolutely everyone angry is a really good sign of its success.

>>81448608
All of this is true.

Irrefutable argument

>if you had put up a picture of a black guy, we wouldn't have ruined your business

And this is supposed to make blacks look better?

>>81448608
>law
You seem to keep missing the point of the movie. Actually I think you're just choosing to ignore it.

>>81448664
No, it's not supposed to make anyone look good. Everyone looks terrible in this film, that's the point.

ITT: /pol/ hates niggers and ignores the /tv/ aspect of the /tv/ board
Fascinating

>>81448680
>this
Everyone is a dick, but no one deserved what happened to them in the end.

>people getting bamboozled by a spike lee film because they somehow need an unambiguous moral lesson from every piece of media they consume

lmao

>>81448594
>Shitty dodge
Do as I say, nigger. Reread the thread, boy.

>>81448741
>AAAGH IF THEY HAD JUST KEPT THE MOVIE GOING AND SHOWN THE TRIAL THEN THE JUDGE WOULD HAVE SIDED WITH THE WHITE(ISH) GUY AND I WOULDN'T HAVE TO THINK ABOUT IT

>>81448762
Not an argument

>>81448654
Inciting anger through hypocrisy is never a good thing

>>81448664
Yes, because terrorist threats of violence are always acceptable when your black

>movie all about people not compromising, leading to a painful end result that benefits no one
>/tv works hard to be as reductive as possible, take sides, fixate on random points
this is legitimately a great thread so far

>>81448823
It's almost like the board is full of retards.
hmmm....

>>81448812
I bet you haven't actually seen this film. Did you read the summary off of Wikipedia, or are you just playing it by ear?

>>81448782
*throws a brick through your window*

>>81448823
>pander to obnoxious black people or they will loot and destroy your business
damn really makes me think

>>81448823
>painful end that benefits no one.

Not a single black person I know felt that way. All of them felt the blacks in the film were justified.

And obviously you're too young to remember the reviews for this film when it first came out

>>81447397
That's the lesson anon. The black is the eternal victim.

>>81448243

>people are falling for this contrarian bait

>>81448895
They weren't always that way. Blacks used to own businesses and be family people.

I'm sorry to say this but liberal politics starting with President Johnson deliberately instilled in them a sense of hopelessness and futility. The eternal victim complex.

This intern destroyed their families, businesses and communities, making them dependent upon the welfare state, which was largely provided by democrats

>>81448878
>>81448888
>/tv/, lacking self-awareness, charges ahead to prove the post right

>>81448941
>series of rational statements
>contrarian
Please don't burn down my house for disagreeing with you, blackfella.

>>81448454
>Of course Sal had no real obligation to do it but tha overwhelming majority of his business came from black patrons. Some of the black patrons mention how they grew up on Sal's pizza, so to them he is a part of the neighborhood, but they are not a part of his neighborhood to him and his sons.

And most of his black patrons treated him like shit. They bad mouth him, slam on his door even after he has closed, expecting to open just for them (which he does very kindly), they walk into the shop blasting music and don't turn it down, they rip him for his pizza not having enough cheese on it, and even his employee Mookie is totally lazy and feckless, and really rude to him, and yet he still treats him really well and even says that he sees him like a son. It seems very willing to be a part of the neighbourhood.

>He sees them as a source of income not as people who have fond memories of his place or an emotional attachment to it.

He literally says at one point that he is really proud of watching his customers grow up on his food. He totally defends his customers against his racist son's remarks.

>He had a chance to reciprocate the attachment that the community felt towards him at the begging of the film but didn't and that was his right of course.

As I explained before, I reckon he does reciprocate that attachment. But he is one Italian American living in neighbourhood entirely filled with black people. He is proud of his ethnicity and likes to celebrate it by hanging pictures of Italian Americans on his wall, and yet his patrons couldn't respect that. I don't see why he really needed to stand up for black people in an area where everyone is black. Plus, it's his restaurant. How is looting it and burning it down an understandable response to the fact that he didn't change the decor in a way that a couple of his customers wanted?

>>81448888
I remember that the best discussion I ever had about this movie was where the one black dude in the room stayed quite until the very end of the discussion.
>"Everyone has been talking about how it was wrong to destroy Sal's pizzeria and you're right, it was wrong. But not one person in the hour and a half we have been here, said one word against the cops that killed Radio Raheem."
That shut the room up since it was full of middle class white kids, minus myself(Spic here).
I stayed the fuck out of it since no one ever really wanted to hear it from either me or the black dude anyway.

>>81447968
>that level of insight
>that broad perspective

wtf do you think this is, a television and movies board?

>>81448962
Yea I know, Johnson helped them become this way, and now they are too comfortable to ever go bac.

>Go into a black owned business and ask the owner why doesn't he have any pictures of whites on the wall

How would that work out for you?

The answer to this proves the basic hypocrisy of blacks and liberals, that creates so much racial hatred in our nation

Remember that at the end of this film a black character enters the burned out pizza parkour and tacks a picture of a black man on the wall,

That is the ultimate expression and justification for black violence we see in the film. The final triumph over the evil white man

>>81449036
>>"Everyone has been talking about how it was wrong to destroy Sal's pizzeria and you're right, it was wrong. But not one person in the hour and a half we have been here, said one word against the cops that killed Radio Raheem."
Because there was no need to do so. Everyone knew it was wrong and no one would defend it.
That doesn't justify the actions of the mob.

>>81449013
Simple answer is that they were pissed that Radio Raheem died over something so fucking small. Basically for no reason. He died over a stereo being too loud. He was massive asshole but that shouldn't mean your life is completely forfeit.

>>81449124
Cops tend to overreact to blacks for some very legitimate reasons seen here >>81447937

Everyone is afraid to talk about the truth, but police officers see it every single day

>>81448608

Why do you keep making an appeal to legally? Why are you strawmanning peoples' posts into an assertion that the actions of the black characters were lawf, when absolutely no one ITT has made that claim?

>>81449124
He didn't die because his stereo was too loud. He died because he was strangling a guy to death who completely justifiably asked him to turn his stereo down when he was on his property.

>>81449107
Exactly.

>>81447397
sal did nothing wrong.

>>81449107
Professor backed up the black dude by saying that he was waiting for that to come up but it never did. They just talked about Raheem's death as "after what happened" or "when the guy dies".
Basically, it was a whole speech about how the level of scrutiny between the destruction of property and the loss of a human life(no matter how rude or inconsiderate) was completely out of balance.
The discussion never came around to Radio Raheem's death in a real way because everyone was preoccupied with the destruction of the pizzeria. We got asked if what we thought the cops did was unjustified, not whether Raheem deserved to die(he said we all know he didn't deserve to die) but whether their methods of restraint were justified given his size and the intensity of his resistance. One dude said that Raheem shouldn't have resisted and after that no one really talked very much.
Last fucking movie we watched in that class thank god

>>81449177

A police officers job is to put themselves in dangerous situations. "I'm scarred because statistically you might try to hurt me" is not a justification for unlawful use of force on any level.

If a police officer is too nervous around people of a certain demographic to act in a lawful manner, then he shouldn't be a police officer.

>>81449337
But there moral ambiguity about Raheem's death, so that's why no one talks about it.

>>81448674
I'm missing no point, and I'm not the guy you were originally arguing with. The point still stands, just because both parties share blame doesn't mean it's an equal amount. If Sal's a racist, then he's a racist. Don't buy his pizza, and certainly don't do illegal shit.

>>81449377
Yes it is. When that person is ten times more likely to react in a violent manner the behavior of a cop is completely understandable.

I'm not saying it's justified, just understandable

reminder that michael brown and trayvon martin both deserved to die

I have had photographic evidence of Spike Lee giving me oral sex for years.
I will use it when he grows older and senile to ruin his life or recieve money out of it.

>>81447968
>>81449039
Samefag.

>>81449200
I never said anyone said what buggin out or raheem did was lawful. I'm a different anon. I'm still not wrong either

>>81449241
You have to remember though, blacks and liberals see black violence as being completely justifiable under any circumstance

>>81449405
The whole point of the class was to talk about these kind of things and eventually the professor figured he was wasting his time and ours by trying so we didn't watch any more controversial movies since no one wanted to talk about them.

>>81449446
That's what happens when you have no principles. Bigotry of soft expectations.

>>81447397
>film
It's a joint. A Spike Lee joint.

Why don't any other groups riot and burn down their neighborhood businesses on a regular basis?

>>81449414
Yeh, and I feel like The Wire illustrates that quite well while also illustrating how blacks have such hatred for the police.

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HEY

Super old fag here.

Doesn't anyone here still use the +extensions that assign IDs to unique users on this site?

Are you all such pathetic new fags?

The only reason I'm saying this is because there is one faggot in this thread who is playing both sides of the argument and responding to his own posts

His writing style is unmistakable, and you should be able to see this if you're not fucking retarded. You don't even need the +extensions

Now ask yourself, what kind of serious mental illness drives this sort of behavior?

>>81449491
fuck off back to redit with your ebonics

>>81449429
freddie grey too

>>81448033
>>81448243
>>81448286

it's just about bein a nice dude in the community

it's against the law to steal candy but is it wrong for a shop owner to give a local kid a sucker once in a while knowing it'd make his day?

he's not obligated to do it, but it's a nice thing.
that kind of attitude tends to deescalate tensions in dire situations.

>>81449411
Of course its not an equal amount. But the law still has nothing really to do with this. That's something people want to drag into the story to make it more clear cut but the movie isn't trying to make a point about the law. So bringing it up is just a cop-out.

>>81449551
i feel like white people are nice enough to allow black people the gift of not being genocided for the worthless filth that they are

>>81449551
>that kind of attitude tends to deescalate tensions in dire situations
And if you don't exhibit the required "nice" attitudes, then you get terrorized.

He clearly cared about his wall full of pictures, they had no right to ask him to add something just because.

>>81449546
also MLK

>>81447968
Nice one. You did the right thing by posting this.

>>81448878
>Be a complete dick to your only customers

They didn't destroy the place because of the picture retard

>>81449577
The law has everything to do with it, you fucking moron.

>>81449620
How often do you respond to your own posts?

>>81447968
good post

no wait

great post

>>81449627
>story about choice and unwitting consequence
>HUR DUR DAH LAW THAYZ

>>81449616
And Emmett Till

>>81449577
it's not a cop out. I think that Spike Lee's assertion that it's "black lives matter more than white property" when clearly in the movie itself it shows instigating niggers cause a disturbance and then try to choke a guy to death. Then when Raheem dies because he's a thug resisting arrest against an arguably racist cop, I'm supposed to feel bad? Hardly. And then it justifies the burning down of Sal's shop? Spike Lee seems to think so, and fuck him for that.
I made no strawmans against any1 else and I'm not copping out of anything.

>>81449623
how was he a complete dick to them?

>>81449551
I mean, Sal literally says Mookie is like a son to him, even those Mookie treats him like shit and is really lazy and always bunks off, and Sal also says he's proud of seeing his customers grow up on his food, even they treat him like dirt, to the point where they burn his fucking business down.

>>81449529
>+extensions that assign IDs to unique users on this site
explain

>>81449623
Uh huh. That's why one of the last shots involved a black putting up a photo of another black in the burned out pizza parlor

It's all about the triumph of black violence over the white man. Black revenge against whites is the true theme of the entire film

>>81449675
and Jesus Christ (he wus a kang n' sheeit afterall)

>>81449658
That would be pretty pathetic. I bet you do it all the time.

>>81449674
nice argument

>>81449414
but the power we give to police means they need to be held to a higher standard, no?

>>81449623
When was he ever a dick to his customers?

>>81449802
no that's commie talk
now bend over and spread your cheeks for any man in a uniform, like a good American!

>>81449684
The movie isn't asking you to be persuaded that the destruction of the pizzeria was justified, just to understand the anger behind it. What happens in a movie/book/show/whatever isn't always what the creator believes is true. It's about showcasing ideas through story and if you want to believe that Spike Lee supports destruction of property and that he thinks its always justified then thats fine but you're only depriving yourself of something for your mind to chew on by making it so simple.

>>81447968
Good post

>>81449802
Who's we? Blacks have had nothing to do with building or maintaining civilization
The police are there to keep the animals under control

>>81449897
The "anger" being "Fuck whitey"

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>>81449036
>Nigger thought he was revealing his power level
>We know its wrong dipshit

/tv/ used to suck this movies dick so it's nice to see some people have a more realistic view of it. Maybe it was an influx of Reddit its but I swear a couple years ago everyone defended the black people in this movie to the death

>>81449897
But the point is I don't understand the anger behind it, or at least I don't understand the direction of the anger: they burn down someone's business who has just been almost beaten and strangled to death because he told someone to turn their ghetto blaster down on his own property. How is that fair?

>>81450018
He called the cops
It's because of him that the guy died

>>81450018
wow you are a racist man

>>81448875
mynigga.jpeg

>>81449883
serious question:
whats commies position on weed plant theft

like if you spent half an year nurturing your weed plant and i came and took it away because i dont have any, what would you do?

>>81450097
He called the cops because someone was playing incredibly loud music and threatening him on his own property. It's not because of him that Radio died. Radio died because he started strangling Sal to death, and the cop who stopped went way too far in punishing him for it.

so this movie is saying that its not okay for an italian american man to only hang up pictures of italian american men inside his restaurant, and the only way to correct that is to burn his place down and then hang up a picture of a black man after? i don't know what spike lee was trying to come across with this """message""". so is it wrong for a black restaurant to only hang up pictures of black men but all other races are not allowed because the place is owned by a minority?

>>81447397
>Spike Lee
Spike Lee was supposed to be "the" next director, but his works never got any better than do the right thing, it was literally like the dead albatross around his neck.

>>81450018
I don't think its about fairness either. The whole movie the temperature is rising, literally and emotionally. When things finally come to a head with Raheem's death people just snap and arguably the only one making sense was Mookie when he threw the trash can, at least that saved the owners from getting their ass beat. It was fucked up but it was better than the alternative, Sal can rebuild a pizzeria, if the crowd killed him its over.
It's a fucked up line of logic but its there.
To these people, it's not just about Raheem. Its yet another time when they see someone like themselves be mistreated by the people who are supposed to be keeping them safe. Raheem was an asshole and they all knew that but the cops got him off of Sal and had already broken up the struggle and they kept choking him. They had to watch him die and thats definitely not something you can rationalize in the moment.

>>81450244
The message is that Spike Lee and almost all blacks absolutely fucking hate whites

>>81450255
What about the fucking law?

>>81450247
yeah he really flamed out after this movie and he was never even a very convincing actor either.
My guess is that he either only had one good idea or just as likely, the idea was never his to begin with and he got lucky

>>81450295
That law meme is tricky aint it?

>>81450297
agreed, one hit wonder

Serious question: I've made 20 posts ITT, should I watch this movie?

>>81450362
I guarantee you he wishes he had died after Do The Right Thing came out just so he could forever be remembered as someone with so much potential instead of the dead horse he's become.

>>81450255
>I don't think its about fairness either. The whole movie the temperature is rising, literally and emotionally. When things finally come to a head with Raheem's death people just snap

But this makes it sound like there is a build of bad things happening to the black people in the film, ultimately caused by whites, which leads them to snap at the end and misdirect their anger at the pizzeria. But there isn't. Fuck all is happening to them throughout the film. They even hose some dudes car down with a fire hydrant and the cops just shrug it off. They harass and bully some white dude just cos he cycled by and scuffed Buggin' Out's shoe. They look like they have the easiest life with the least repercussions for doing shit.

>>81450419
You got me.

>>81447968
*throws trash can at this post*

>>81450388
The movie is great, just has a dumb ending.

>>81450388
It's a very well put together movie and it raises a lot of interesting questions. If you want go into it with the right mindset you could really enjoy it as a film.
That being said, only ever see this Spike Lee movie if you have to watch one. The rest are shit and he's been coasting on this one for decades now.

>>81450169
>calls the cops on someone
>not his fault

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>tfw miscreants won't learn the meaning of the law

>>81450442
The heat is definitely a factor in the rising tension in the film, though I haven't seen it in a while so you I'm likely not remembering as much as I should for this thread and you have a good point here. Though I would say that it's no accident that Mookie is the only one who literally takes the time to cool off with his girlfriend and in the end makes the one decision he could to stop things from getting even worse.

>>81450610
Wow, excellent observations please continue.

Its an unintentionally redpilled movie by a bluepilled as fuck director

>>81450529
So if someone is abusing you on your own property, you call the cops, he starts beating you and strangling you to death, and then the cops kill him, it's your fault that the dude died?

Wow you have a fucked up concept of ethics.

>>81447397
do the far right thing

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>>81450529
>Call a bug exterminator
>Turns out the exterminator is a serial rapist who rapes your family
>That somehow makes you responsible for raping your family

>>81450642
just like AHX

>>81447397
it doesn't sound like you're confused at all. or maybe you're confused because you couldn't imagine a black director making a balanced movie that shows black people fucking up

>>81450645
>>81450678
it was a thing between them, it wasn't the case of being a snitch and bring the police between them like a pussy

it was a low blow

>>81450645
Wait, what role do ethics play in that scenario?

>>81448962
>This intern destroyed their families, businesses and communities
Jesus, who hired that guy?

>>81447968
yo this is great please leave this board though you are wasted here and nothing good will come of the time you spend here

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>>81451120

>>81451160
For about two years I was paid for my opinion on film and to a lesser extent TV shows. Great job mostly. Went into a theater or turned on Netflix with a notepad and wrote down whatever I noticed, took the notes home and organized them into a review.
It was a great job and I'd never have given it up if I didn't have to move away from the town I was based in. Only real downside was that I had to sit through a good number of movies I didn't really like but I still liked it more than most people like their jobs so I couldn't really complain.

>>81447968
Insightful post.

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>>81450419
nah

>>81447937

>1 in 3

Who are the other 2?

>41%

Who is the 59%?

>>81451665
The point is that it is disproportionate per their racial group.
You would expect 13% of a population to commit, on average, 13% of the murders. But it's actually much higher than that.

>>81450763
>Commit a crime
>Be shocked when people call the police

Is this the legendary "black logic" I keep hearing about?

>>81447968
Bravo

>>81451825
The law has nothing to do with this.

>>81447968
It is like you actually watched the movie.

Clap clap clap.

>>81451764
So 2 out of 3 are white?

Interesting

>>81451849
The law has everything to do with everything. All aspects of society, public and private, are held accountable to the law at all times.

>>81451902
>anon fell for the law meme
wew lad

>>81451888
>There are only white and black people in America
I understand where your confusion comes from, if you listen to any liberal source of news/information they like to pretend that this is the case.
Whites make up ~60% of the US pop. actually, so even if the rate for those crimes for whites WAS 2/3, it would be reasonably proportionate.

>>81451965
>Nigger fell for the police sting meme

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>>81447397
Reminder that Sal did literally nothing wrong.

>>81452506
he trusted black people

>>81452506
>move into the zoo
>surprised when chimps start to chimp out

this is the best /tv/ thread of the past three years

>>81452748
How do you figure?

>>81447397

It is so sad seeing people's own clear racial issues completely blinding them to seeing what a work of art is trying to express

It's really a fucking huge wake up call to me to see how one's bias can totally destroy the ability to even understand the message someone else is trying to communicate

Humanity was a mistake desu. How can there be this much failure to communicate?

>>81452805
shut the fuck up faggot

>>81452792
The one guy responding to his own posts again and again is really fucking amusing, plus the /pol/guy sperging out is pretty funny too. It's just a great snapshot of our period in time.

>>81452869
Why did they ever get rid of IDs?
We need that shit back

>>81447397
I remember reading that spike thought mookie putting the trash can through the window would distract the mob from sal/his kids and make it instead about property damage not mob justice, but I don't know that that's real or that it makes sense to me

It's a disingenuous film. The "life matters more than property" message argument is so mired in condescension that it's laughably pretentious. No one mentions Radio Raheem's death because of how blatantly wrong it was; it was never in contention. Sal's pizzeria being destroyed is the capstone on the whole film, is (slightly) more morally ambiguous, and is given far more time than Radio Raheem's death.

>>81448454
maybe I don't remember it properly, but it seems to me that you're simplifying the movie to suit your own ends as much as everyone else here
sal doesn't see the people of the neighborhood as just cash cows, he stops his one son from deriding the neighborhood and openly cares for mookie's sister (even if lecherously), and only that one of his sons can be said to see the neighborhood functionally/negatively. I saw the sons not as characters but as explorations of sal's being torn between two ways of thinking/existence, and he definitely has both sides
regardless, the quality/nature of his pizza is a direct result of him being italian american, his shop is basically him vending italianness to them in harmony. you'd support/condone someone asking him to take down those generic paintings of the italian countryside you find in pizza shops for some african paintings, because that's who he happens to be serving? the bit where the korean shop owner is spared didn't seem positive to me, he was saved by being as alienated/non-american as the black people were, sal had the nerve to be american.
also the "instigating nigga" didn't care about the picture on the wall, he cared about being charged for extra cheese, everything else was to get back at sal for that. that can be his "one thing," but it wasn't noble or about "loyalty"
this is kind of disjointed, but hopefully what I'm trying to say comes through
you also didn't talk abut the sal-mookie relationship
also are you black?

>>81453445
You're making a lot of good points. haven't watched the movie for close to four or five years now so there's probably a lot I could be forgetting or just remembering wrong so you've probably got a fresher memory of it than I do.
Also no, I'm not black. I'm a Spic but I studied film quite a bit in college.

>>81453445
>>81453537
C'mon dude

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>>81453577
not samefagging

>>81453537
I haven't seen it in like 2 years, but you didn't really respond to anything I said and I say that not to denigrate you, but more I'd like to hear what you have to say/think
>>81453577
cmon dude what?

>>81453445
I did mention Sal and Mookie's sister because it was the only interaction I could really recall offhand. I do remember now that there is a bit towards the end where he says some stuff to his sons and Mookie that is actually pretty optimistic about their station in the neighborhood but I don't remember it too clearly.
I remember the instigator was really upset about something besides the picture but I couldnt remember what it was until you mentioned it so it could very well be that his anger later in the film is tied to the fact that he let all this shit happen because he didn't like being charged for extra cheese. And his guilt over something so petty could very well have manifested as rage at himself that he turns outwards after Raheem's death.
I wrote a few paragraphs about Sal and Mookie for a review I once did but I can't remember where I left it.
I really would have to rewatch the movie it's been so long since I actually just watched it aside from it being on in the background once or twice.
Though, I maintain that Sal was under no real obligation to put up a picture of a black celeb, its his place. But looking at the aftermath of the day's events, its such a small thing to have been a part of so much shit.
Again it comes back to the fact that the characters don't see all the pieces we do at the same time by the time the movie is over. We know that its all so stupid compared to the end results but they obviously never thought it would go that far.

Could everyone participating ITT please post timestamed images of their face and photo ID?

>>81450763
Is this bait? Or black people logic?

>>81451888
lol you wish, you forget them rape bros spics

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>>81453977
Sure.

>>81453895
even if you can't remember it perfectly (even more so if that's what you did remember), and even if the sal/mookie's sister thing is a bit debased it's not worth dismissing out of hand, it being the one positive interaction is to me a metaphor for one facet of his relationship to the black community (possibly with the relative age differences as their "settling in" to america, and the age distance derived from that as an implicit barrier to familiarity/true connection idrk, but regardless there's an attempt to connect destroyed by blind senseless societal standards/whatever. it reflects poorly on sal but I don't know that that's intentional and not a side effect of lee just needing a barrier)
to say the whole "they can't see the big picture and couldn't know how trivial the whole thing was" is kind of to condone/support sal putting up a black celebrity's picture, otherwise what are we supposed to take from the film, that we should just look in sadness and make more films saying "what a tragedy"? I think (mort d'auteur aside) lee really does believe sal should've put the picture up, which I don't understand in context of everything else in the film unless he's really not self-aware at all
also the instigator gets pissed at sal over the cheese then leaves and tries to rile up raheem immediately after, iirc. I'm fairly sure it's a direct link

Doesn't spike lee say in an interview somewhere, that in inside man the Pizza's delivered to the bank the gunmen were in, was from Sal's from do the right thing?

>>81447968
Well summarized. It fucking ridiculous that this shit even needs to be said. This is a fucking movie board and the theme is right in the fucking title but still these fuckers need handholding.

>>81454533
Bump because this shit is fuckin funny yo

>>81453977
>187 replies
>53 posters
>It's a cancerous samefag argues with himself episode

>>81454872
I like the self-professed spic, if that's who you're talking about, even if he's kinda dodging stuff
it's nice to talk to someone who actually thinks something about a movie instead of parrots a generic opinion or talks in memes

>>81451888
In the US, Mexicans are counted as white, so yeah. I guess.

>>81450011
/pol/ changed everything

>>81453322
It's also interesting that Sal's property and the Korean's property is fetishized by the blacks in the community.
Property IS worth killing over.

>>81454950
We're talking about you.

>>81447614
Thank you for articulating that so I'm more assured as to what I'm replying "no, they don't" to.

>>81455750
No, they don't.

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>>81455551
I posted 4 times though
the other one was to you

>>81453895
are you still around or no

it really sucks that this thread will not reach bump limit just because of racism

>>81448454
>just a source of income to Sal
You obviously didn't watch the movie Sal sad he was proud that the neighborhood grew up on his food and rebuked his sons desire to take the money and move

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good thread

I want that hispanic guy to answer my questions come back we were politely fundamentally opposed you can't do this

>>81448243
This is autism

This movie made people who weren't normally racist into racists

ITT: that one same fag who was replying to his own posts is still here hours later because he's desperate for human attention

Saddest thing I've ever witnessed

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>>81457677
I can't believe I got b8d this hard but it's a bump regardless

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>>81447397

>>81449405
>But there moral ambiguity about Raheem's death, so that's why no one talks about it.

And that's a problem

>>81449802

Does a higher standard mean they should ignore common sense? We're not talking about a 10% difference here. If you're 600% more likely to try and murder someone, that's a big fucking deal.

>>81449036

This anecdote, alongside the thread itself, shows how little people seem to want to empathize and see things from different perspectives, and instead just jump to the most convenient perspective: Sal and his pizzeria being destroyed.

And that is both sad and horrifying, and tells a lot about why the racial tensions have flared in America. It's as if people aren't even capable of thinking about the possibility of seeing things from other perspectives anymore, it's all about me and how I perceive things from the easiest way possible. I've got no time for other people's opinions and experiences if they aren't 140 character posts from Twitter, and we all know how poorly you can construct compelling opinion and arguments in the confines of such rigid limitations.

>>81459102

At what point does it stop being "common sense" and just becomes being trigger happy? There's something fundamentally wrong with the American police force when you start to look at how much police brutality, corruption and abuse of power is happening, and how eagerly people are to brush those up as just isolated incidents, rather than admit to it showing an institutional problem.

When you repeatedly catch cops shooting kids and then planting a drop gun on them when they realize there was no gun just to cover their own ass, and see shit like the Attorney General stating we ought to put a stop to the much needed police reforms, is it any wonder people don't trust the police, and in fact act hostile against them? They've stopped being a helping hand in the community and instead began to portray themselves as the hand of oppression to certain demographics.

>>81459163
Sure thing. That or anyone thinking logically see that the dark side had no legitimate reason to chimp out

>>81449551
Yo dude, sweet opinion.

But in accordance with your stated argument, throw up an email address. As an Australian I'm filled with a natural compulsion to shitpost/shit all over threads, and if you throw me a monetary donation I won't do that to this thread.

You're not obligated to do it, but it's a nice thing. That kind of attitude tends to deescalate tensions in dire situations.

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>>81447968
Leave here.

Go, now. Run.

You're too good for this place, anon.

>>81452572
So he relaxed, what was he supposed to do around his African American customer base?

>>81459163
this is too reductive for me to take you seriously, how do you not get the irony of taking this and thinking of it in "the easiest way possible"
the film is constructed to ease you into thinking in the way you criticize, and not just because people are unable to see things outside of tribalistic refractions
this is a false equivalence, the counterpart to burning the shop down isn't the death of radio raheem but sal's outbursts and destruction of his radio
the death of radio raheem is tragic but it's done by people you never get the chance to empathize with or understand who enter and leave just as quickly. the reason people discuss sal's pizzeria at the end is because it's the focus of the movie, the thing to think about is what provokes the outburst at the end, and what it means, whether it's justified, etc.. to talk about radio raheem's death does nothing but give you an awkward empty five minute conversation of "we should institute police reforms for fictional cops" and "what a shame and a tragedy", there's nothing to discuss or think about
after writing this out I think I've been baited again

Lots of cringe samefag to that one- heavily raped by actual replies- post.
But keep up, you sure are oh-so-special for this place, bright star

>>81459796
>to talk about radio raheem's death does nothing but give you an awkward empty five minute conversation of "we should institute police reforms for fictional cops" and "what a shame and a tragedy", there's nothing to discuss or think about

Sure, by showing no willingness to understand his perspective and inability to talk about in a larger perspective.

>doing the right thing means that you have to do whatever angry niggers say with your own property or they will become violent

wow really opened up my eyes to the complex reality of racial tensions in a diverse society

more diversity please!

>>81447397
>except the old drunk guy
Where's the miller high life?

Anyone who fucks around selling pizza to black people in the ghetto when they could be out in the suburbs serving a wealthier white clientele is a fucking moron.

He should have listened to his sons and moved the shop out to the suburb where he lived.

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>>81448079

>>81448403
>both this and Chiraq are really good examples of it.

Chiraq is a horrible example of holding the black community to any kind of standard.

>Two gangs conduct a blood feud
>This is all the fault of white people in the government and police
>The solution is for the beloved gang members and their bitches to have some kind of fuck contest

Black on black violence is not some kind of external violence against the black community. To deal with it requires the community to examine its own members and what they do and what they tolerate from each other.

>>81448644
>The mob wouldn't have formed if any of the characters had just been a bit more flexible in their choices
The mob wouldn't have formed if it wasn't a shitty nigger hellhole. But nigs gonna nig without a shred of flexibility.

>>81449036
>But not one person in the hour and a half we have been here, said one word against the cops that killed Radio Raheem
Radio Raheem had chimped out and was attempting to kill someone. The police were justified in protecting innocent life.

-1 shit post

>>81460712
What did he mean by this?

>>81459163
How can I empathize with the black characters in this movie?
Only one is likeable

>>81450721
I can't imagine a black director ever doing this.

>>81447968
The blame lies with everyone for letting pride take over.

>>81460075
the more I think about it maybe part of the film is to work on a meta level and to get people to have this discussion, it really works to make people on both sides think the others are idiots and drive up tensions between them

raheem's perspective can't be interacted with or understood, because he didn't make the choice to die
it's horrific to kill someone over something as small as a fight and a broken boombox, but nothing beyond this sadness and a desire to prevent something similar from occurring can be realistically expresssed because of the film's own context. the bit about fictional cops isn't a "this doesn't actually happen :^)" line, I mean more that the events the film actually alludes to/draws from (e.g. the mentally ill woman killed by police a few years before the movie was made whose name is graffitied (? it's been a while)) should be the point of discussion, because the police are purposeful non-characters (maybe to stress the "police are outsiders in black communities", but that abstracts people out into an otherwordly force that can't be dealt with outside of blind reforms which won't start or be defined in a community college film 101 class), so all you end up with is pain that can't really be extrapolated upon but a drive to express/justify it

I never said sal's was worth more than raheem's life or anything along those lines, just that the movie allows you to talk about its destruction within the movie's own context with a lot more nuance/something like that

>>81448403
>decent human being
>Spike Lee

You may choose only one

>>81448680
>>81448729

That doesn't mean that there aren't degrees or ranks to how bad people look and all the black characters come off looking worse and they all share the same character flaws.

>>81449071

I love that this post has no replies.

>>81447397
That's the point my brother.

Around blacks never relax was the message. That's why Lee ended with the two quotes

What's the bigger failure as an anti-racist movie, Do the Right Thing or American History X?

>>81447968
Why the fuck would you put up a picture of a black dude in an Italian restaurant??

Do I demand Mexican pictures at the Chinese food place? I don't. You're out if your mind.

Lee's message is never trust black people

>>81451888
...yes, all other ethnic groups are included as well..

>>81462025
It's too racis for their feeble minds to comprehend

>>81462109
>Why the fuck would you put up a picture of a black dude in an Italian restaurant??

Why wouldn't you?

>>81462486
Maybe because it is your fucking restaurant? Which means you get to decide what it looks like?

>>81448079

this is why I cant watch mafia movies. italian americans just seem like overgrown toddlers throwing tantrums, who usually end up snitching

>>81463042

Why would you put up a wall of fame dedicated solely to white people on a dominantly black neighborhood and not realize it might annoy people when you refuse to put a single famous black person in? Didn't the wall have like a picture of Dino and Sinatra there, but not Sammy Davies Jr?

>>81449897
>just to understand the anger behind it.

I do understand the anger behind it.

It's simple tribalism. Whitey bad, blacks good. Sal was identified as the outgroup when he refused to hang a black icon to identify himself as the ingroup. Sal attempted to establish his norms to the anger of an ingroup member (raheem) and was then punished for it.

>>81452805
>icanthandlethefactthateveryoneelseisanassholebutme.jpg

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>>81447968
That's a superbro if I've ever seen one.

Anyone else finds it ridiculous when a racist italian guy only names black people as his idols?

>favorite actor eddie murphy
not pacino or deniro
>favorite singer michael jackson
not frank sintra or dean martin
>favorite basketball player magic johnson
not larry bird


Spike Lee was strawmanning hard.

>>81464295
Shit,favorite singer is Prince,but you get my point.

>>81464295
>>81464317

Nah, the point is that racists always make exceptions. My granddad was racist as fuck but his best friend was a black guy he'd worked with for twenty years and his excuse was that "but he's not like the rest of them."

Nobody is ever "like the rest of them." You can make generalizations, sure, but when you actually get to know people, you discover that they're still individuals - they might be all right, or they might be an asshole, or they might be somewhere in the middle.

>>81464409
The point is that he could have named one black guy,it's a huge coincidence that ALL his favorites are black people. Mookie could easily grill him about magic johnson.