This is easily the best kino of the past 10 years.

>>81435673
I would say best kino in the past decade

>>81435673
>>81435702
I wouldn't say best but it's definitely up there for me.

Andrew Garfield was also good in Hacksaw Ridge. I hope this is the start of some more Christ-kinos. They're pretty comfy desu

greatest kino in 21st century.

>>81435850

yeah i watched Hacksaw Ridge and then Silence

felt so fucking great. Wish there was a show that details the life of whats going on in the first 30 mins of Hacksaw Ridge. Its a movie in itself and beautiful. Those were the days.

>>81435673
I thought it was shit.

>>81435673
It was a great kino movie

I almost cried and when god talks to Andrew Garfield and he is about to step on the image

>>81435673
>JAY COCKS

>>81436029
was the devil. God doesn't talk in a human voice in the film.

>>81435673
It was far too lush and clean for what it was trying to convey, it was distracting as hell and ruined the film for me

>>81436344
>It was far too lush and clean

What do you mean by this?

>>81436344
Thats just so wrong though

>>81435702
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCKwtUXyU1k&t=2s
and I would say "no"

>>81436029
>god talks
>>81436166
>was the devil

you're morons.

>>81436613
No you are, retard.

But I forgive you.

Lord, forgive >>81436653, for he knows not what he does.

>thinking that was the voice of God
>not just a voice in his head

It was lost on you dipshits that Rodriguez was obsessing over the I M A G E of God/Christ by El Greco. Idolatry is frowned upon

>>81436920
it was the devil you unbeliever

>>81436944
>unbeliever

the power of my faith would smite you where you stand heathen

I bet you think stepping on a piece of carved wood produced by a bunch of soulless zipperhead heathens counts as anything. I bet you worship idols yourself

>its a catholic has doubts about the veracity of idolatry, while simultaneously pushing idolatry movie

... uh

File: Silence.2016.BluRay.1080p.DTS-HD.MA.5.1.x264.dxva-FraMeSToR.mkv_snapshot_01.14.05_[2017.03.25_13.54.08].jpg (137KB, 1920x804px) Image search: [Google]

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;_;

>>81438424
>it's an "i didnt get it and i don't know anything" episode

not this one again

>>81436166
It was the devil? How so?

>>81438608
feel free to elaborate

>>81438664
tempted him to do an evil deed

>>81438764
It's nothing to do with idolatry. The symbols that the Japanese Christians refuse to step on/spit on aren't Jesus. They are his representation. They refuse to even imply that they would spit on Jesus.

>>81438848
>Catholicism has nothing to do with idolatry

... uh

>>81438880
Yeah yeah, you're a Protestant. I get it.

Pretty cool seeing my country represented on a Scorsese flick

>>81438978
Why Jap so savage?

>>81439044
I meant Portugal

>>81439044
Japan was sort didn't care about Catholics until 1612 or something like that. A lot of samurai and lords from the south became catholics and then some peasant staged a rebellion and he happened to be catholic, it was sort of what happened in china 100 of years later with the taiping
the japanese leaders lost their shit and wanted to kill all christians after that but they survived as the hidden christians

cool story

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>>81438978
>a Scorsese flick
Bitch please...

>>81436603
I was gonna how long before that faggot shills his review

didnt take long

>>81439306
shouldn't be shilling christfag flicks then, op

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Would those 3 guys (Henry, Jimmy and Tommy) make good Jesuit priest? What would they do in Japan? How would they deal with Kichijiro?

>>81435702
One of the year's best for sure

and it's an interesting choice for Scorsese to make this sort of film after his last movie being fratboy party movie

>>81439340
Starting a discussion is now considered shilling? wew

>>81438848
They're pieces of wood with a crude image carved on it. It's not Christ or God or a representation of either. Its a bit of wood produced by a bunch of non believers who turn around and say its Christ. It's a load of shit.

Catholicism has everything to do with idolatry. It's heathen as fuck. Basically organized Sun worship, you may as well be worshiping Satan.

>>81438848
Not to mention that the Japanese Christians don't even understand or grasp Christianity/Catholicism. It means pretty much nothing to them, how can you understand God if you can't understand his teachings and his messages? They are as foreign to it as the Fathers are foreign to the native culture of Japan. It's a mockery is what it is.

Scorsese is also condemning the Fathers seeing themselves as Christlike, in their suffering, in their tribulations and in their intended martyrdom.

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>>81436166
I mean in the book it says its God and the movie is about the silence of god and then him breaking it

>>81439679
God speaks through the rooster. Just like when St. Peter betrayed Christ.

God is everywhere and everything but the Padre can't see it.

>>81439348
WATCH IT 'QUISSY

>>81439225
christians were literally trading advanced weaponry for religious conversions though. Hence why the faction that came to dominate japan viewed Christianity in such a negative light.

>>81439767
Does that mean that padre is going to burn in hell even though he still believed in Christ ?

>>81439673
But the fact that these people were willing to die for their faith really says a lot. I believe the film makes a statement saying that what if the early church father were as cowardly as Neeson's character, where would be be then? The religion would have failed, because it was persecuted under the Romans just like it was in Japan. Without martyrs we would have no church.

>>81439767
Peter denied Christ three times, but Christ knew that he would anyway.
Does not mean that Peter went to hell/what he did was un-christian.

>>81439848
He betrayed Christ a countless number of times. He gave proof of apostasy willingly to the authorities.

If anyone belongs in hell, it's him.

>>81439986
He sinned in a great moment of weakness. It shows to us that even saints are mere men after all.

In the end he repented however.

>>81439937
>Neeson's character
>cowardly

unironically, literally kys

>>81440126
How is he not a coward? He abandoned his faith.

He fears that death is final and that God doesn't exist.

>>81440147
It would only be abandoning his faith if his faith was centered around an idea that he could spread the word of god without knowing different languages or understanding different cultures.

>>81440199
Did you not watch the movie?

He LITERALLY apostatises you fucking retard.

>>81440003
>Following minor nit-picky rules and rituals is more important than living a good Christian life and sparing the lives of innocents.
Catholics everyone.

>>81440362
He denied God you fucking moron. He became a Buddhist.

Jesus, give me strength.

>>81439588
if saying "this movie is kino" is starting a discussion, so is posting a video about why it's not kino. sorry that there is no god senpai

>>81438515
Why is she such a qt?

>>81440334
The movie establishes pretty cleanly the jesuits kept their personal faiths.

>>81440147
He abandoned his faith because there was no room for it in Japan and it was getting innocent people butchered. The Japanese, even the believers, don't understand it at all and so they are dying for literally nothing.

>>81440463
Oh, so you can be a Jesuit and a Buddhist?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHA

>>81440412
except the ending reveals that he kept his own personal faith, which is all that really matters

>>81440505
Just like how one can be a christian and idolatrous.

>>81440412
Denied God publicly to save lives, yet still practiced behind closed doors in private.
Did you watch the movie? Neither priest actually converted to Buddhism in their hearts.

It's up there.

>>81440493
>they died for nothing

Nope, they died for God. Christian doctrine in the early days of Roman persecution wasn't formulated then either. Were those men dying for nothing?

>>81439589
>It's not Christ or God or a representation of either. Its a bit of wood produced by a bunch of non believers who turn around and say its Christ.

I bet you think a flag is just a piece of cloth too faggot.

>>81440561
their understanding of "god" was a sun that rose only once every three days and being rewarded with heaven for dying believing that.

>>81440549
>>81440539
Do you not understand what they did through the public abandonment of their faith? They spat on the graves of all the people who died. The ones who would rather be burned alive than step on the picture of Christ. That is what these men did. And through this made Christianity a joke in Japan. That is why the state supported them.

I can't believe I have to explain the most basic plot details to you retards.

>>81440593
Nope. That's a bunch of bullshit Neeson told himself to make his apostasy easier to bear. They were baptised, confessed their sins, went to mass. They were good Christians.

>>81440439
Come on anon you know those specific words are simply used to get people to respond faster. In the end it's still meant to serve as an introduction to a discussion.
>sorry that there is no god senpai
Dunno why you added that but ok I suppose.

>>81440580
that depends on if the flag is made by red blooded patriots or dirty sand niggers and beaners, of course

>>81440561
is that the same as misunderstanding the faith entirely?

>>81440648
damn son, you're fucking retarded

>>81440694
>they performed the rituals without any understanding of them so they were good christians

...

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>>81435673

>implying

>>81440736
>is that the same as misunderstanding the faith entirely?

An example of them misunderstanding the faith entirely?

>damn son, you're fucking retarded

Not an argument

>>81440593
the "japanese can't into transcendence" thing was bullshit

the major point of the story is that the padre's faith became arrogance, and that you can be a christian even without trying to convert people around you

>>81440749
Do you think the average old lady in the church fully grasps the Sunday mass? Does she fully understand the Bible?

You need to only accept God in your heart to be saved. That is all you need to do.

>>81440778
alright you didn't watch the movie. those gooks don't get it, they're going through the motions.

>>81440648
>They spat on the graves of all the people who died.
And through their actions no more grave were dug.

You talk as if the priests had a choice to be martyred for their faith, but chose not to. This is not true, and is also explained in the film. The state kept them alive while only killing their followers.

>>81440830
show me an example of this

>>81440778
every time a kirishitan said anything about Christianity, a priest had to correct them.

>>81440803
>the major point of the story is that the padre's faith became arrogance, and that you can be a christian even without trying to convert people around you


T H I S
H
I
S

>>81440694
>They were baptised, confessed their sins, went to mass. They were good Christians.
Again, Catholics, everyone.
>muh rites

>>81440736
The flag is the flag, it doesn't matter who made it or how shitty it is, the deliberate destruction or degradation of that symbolic object is a direct attack upon the idea that object represents.

>>81440853
>And through their actions no more grave were dug.

You're not a Christian I see. Death isn't the end.

>You talk as if the priests had a choice to be martyred for their faith, but chose not to. This is not true, and is also explained in the film. The state kept them alive while only killing their followers.

It was a test of faith by God to these people. The weak throw him away, while the strong die in his embrace.

>>81440859
>spoonfeed me because i didn't pay attention

>>81440819
its actually like the same thing. organized religion is a bunch of hokey garbage chock full of image and idol worship

>>81440859
Kichijero treating confession as a Get Out of Jail Free card.

reminder the original batch of japanese christians were forcibly converted by local lords to open weapons trading with the west in order to gain advantages in a civil war.

Then once the "christian" factions lost the civil war, the new government viewed Christianity as foreign subversion.

>>81440873
>every time

nope

>>81440946
Its a piece of carved wood produced by non-believers with the expressed intent of getting Christians to denounce their faith. It's not an image of God. Christ spoke against images of himself and God anyway and he warned against religions rising up in his name and their idolatry. Basically denounced the entire Catholic religion and the papacy retroactively

>>81440985
This is his personal weakness. Not misunderstand of the religion.

I need to rewatch Silence again.

>>81441065
>>81441010
It was shown numerous times that by and large the peasant folk who had been tricked into converting just didn't get it at all. The way Kichijiro speaks about confession it conveys that it is his misunderstandings about the religion. Which isn't limited to him or any other Japanese persay. Plenty of regular old Catholics treat it as a Get Out of Jail Free Card.

No
It is also one of Scorsese's weakest movies, both in terms of impact/execution and on a meditation of faith

>>81441142
>Plenty of regular old Catholics treat it as a Get Out of Jail Free Card

Plenty of people at Church do a similar thing over here also.

>>81440803
THANK YOU
FINALLY

>>81441456
if you think that this was the only theme in the film worth mentioning you're braindead

>>81440803
>the "japanese can't into transcendence" thing was bullshit

Yes. Because the jesuits thought they could convert people before learning their language.

The movie is actually about people fucking up and needing other people to be tortured because of them before they'd take even the smallest modicum of responsibility for their fuckups.

>>81441553
An atheist like you will never understand faith.

>>81441493
there were many themes but that was the major plot point

>>81441062
I don't care about your delusions about Catholicism, I'm attacking your nonsensical beliefs about symbolism.

Who made the symbol is irrelevant.
The quality of the symbol is irrelevant.
The intent is what matters.
If the expressed intent of the symbolic action being requested is the denunciation of something you profess to value, then acquiescing to that request indicates an acceptance of the terms of that action. The only alternative to this is hypocrisy.

In other words if you claim that you are not a faggot, but you agree to wear a t-shirt that says "I am a faggot", clearly you don't care all that much about whether people think you're a faggot. The fact that it's "just a shirt with words on it man" does not magically undo the symbolism it bears, and one does not have to be an "idolator" to acknowledge this.

>>81441638
it was one of them my pleb friend

guess it was the only one you got

>>81441493
It's not the only theme but it's necessary to point it.
We won't have any decent discussion because the movie makes everyone mad it seems.
It's weird that people universaly agreed that The Young Pope is a kino but with a story that takes place 400 years ago the butthurt is overflowing.
Silence is easily top 3 for Scorsese.

>>81441690
are we just making things up now?

>>81441724
The Young Pope deals with a superficial version of Catholicism, so even an atheist pleb can be wooed by it.

>>81441767
>if I don't understand it it doesn't exist

>>81441689
the intent to deceive Christians is what matters. Who made the symbol is relevant. If the symbol holds no value to me at all how is it relevant? Images of God/worshiping images of God is heresy and any real Christian knows that and would spit or step on that shit in a heartbeat because its literally meaningless.

>>81441827
no I mean your pointless accusations

>>81441861
>only I'm a real Christian

vanity is a sin you know

>>81441871
can't handle the banter?

>>81441937
yes, I'm not a redditard like you

>>81441903
>i dont have anything else to say because im a retard playing doubles advocate who hasnt watching the movie actually

well done, i never said anything of the sort tho. all the shit ive said about idolatry and idols aside, an image of Christ/God you would see in the Church isn't comparable with one produced by Godless heathens intent on using said image to persecute Christians. And you're a complete dumbass for pretending to be a retard

>>81441960
are we just making things up now?

>>81438664
>>81436613
>>81439679
When he steps on it the cock crows in both the movie and book. This alluded to when it happened after Peter's betrayal of Christ in the Bible. This suggests that the voice was a figment of his imagination, sanctioning what he was tempted to do.

>>81441989
>any real Christian knows that and would spit or step on that shit in a heartbeat because its literally meaningless.
>any real Christian
>well done, i never said anything of the sort tho.

>>81436344
Yeah I noticed this too.

>>81442036
how do you even know I'm a Christian? I could be a faggot atheist redditor for all you know.

>all the faggots ITT not able to grasp that the Christians in this flick were practicing in Zealotry rather than Christianity

>>81442029
To add to this he never notices the sound of the cock. A symbol for the fact that God is everywhere, since he is the creator, and yet this man is asking him to speak to him.

>>81442109
Good point.

>>81442094
back peddling

>>81436344
you what? Peasants were dirty as fuck

only nobles were clean

>>81442145
That's why the movie starts and ends with loud sounds of crickets. The crickets are the sound of God.

>>81442149
>any real Christian
>this implies anybody who would consider themselves an actual Christian and just a Johnny-Come-Lately church goer

implied M A Y B E, but you're just putting words in my mouth. nice argument though, now that you've been outed your just accusing others of doing the same shit you've been doing for quite a while now. back peddling

>>81442226
keep back peddling kid

>>81442204
I wouldn't say the crickets are the direct sound of God. God is in everything, just like an artist is in every piece of art he creates. It's important to know that God is separate from his creation though. Many of the early Church fathers were very adamant about this.

>>81441861
>If the symbol holds no value to me at all how is it relevant?
because your claimed internal opinions and valuation is irrelevant, the only thing that actually matters is your actions. Let's look at this another way.
Let's pretend you're an ancient Christian in Rome. You have been commanded to offer a ritualistic sacrifice to the Emperor. This ritual has no value to you, as the Emperor is not God and you feel the ritual is just an empty act with no power.

Do you feel it would be appropriate to perform the ritual?

>Images of God/worshiping images of God is heresy and any real Christian knows that and would spit or step on that shit in a heartbeat because its literally meaningless.
Why is a statue idolatrous but not the written word when they are both graven images that depict God?

>>81442334
>I wouldn't say the crickets are the direct sound of God. God is in everything, just like an artist is in every piece of art he creates.

I completely agree with you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SogTa4LUqJE

11/10 kino opening

>>81442412
lets just continue to ignore the Fathers practicing zealotry rather than Christianity, as well as being consumed by their own arrogance and self-righteous attitudes.

>Do you feel it would be appropriate to perform the ritual
>Why is a statue idolatrous but not the written word when they are both graven images that depict God

back peddling, deflections, keep it up

>>81442620
You can believe what you want, but shouting "I'M RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG LALALALAL" is not a way to argue about anything.

>>81442620
If you're not actually a Christian why do you feel you possess the authority to lecture Christians about what you consider to be idolatry?

>>81442845
because organized religion is inherently evil

>>81442700
the amount of nothing which you know is incredible, keep up with the semantics though. would you participate in some ritualistic sacrificial orgy if you felt it held no real meaning? would you kill yourself because you are nothing and will become nothing and existence is nothing?

>>81442959
>the amount of nothing which you know is incredible, keep up with the semantics though. would you participate in some ritualistic sacrificial orgy if you felt it held no real meaning? would you kill yourself because you are nothing and will become nothing and existence is nothing?

I don't actually know what you mean by this.

>>81442959
>because organized religion is inherently evil
*tips fedora*

>>81443038
organized religion, not personal religion. organized religion is a gigantic for profit industry that preys on the weak of heart and mind and the elderly. a racket for the jews

>>81443134
That's not the definition of organized religion. That's prosperity gospel bs.

>>81443134
I'm sorry your life turned out this way anon.

>>81443134
"Personal religion" is meaningless and simply an excuse to do as you please without accountability. It's what gangsters and prostitutes adhere to in order to delude themselves into believing their actions don't make them bad people, because deep down inside they're actually spiritual beings.

Personal religion is just a euphemism for worshipping yourself.

>>81443166
Organized religion is just another method of indoctrination/control. Priests, fathers, deacons, all put themselves up to speak as the voice of God, which is heresy. Christ says God is everywhere in everything, the Earth is his house, then why do we need to go to Church every week to worship and praise the Sun? If God's house is everywhere, why does God need money? I mean why does his church/house need money? And then none of that gets taxed and the higher ups in the church just fill their own pockets right from the coffers.

>>81443371
Religion is basically just a guideline on how to be a decent human being and not a total piece of shit. Personal faith has nothing to do with being told what to do by someone else claiming to speak for God or as God, it has nothing to do with worshiping yourself.

Gangsters and prostitutes literally go to church and confess their sins and go out and do it all over again because they misconstrue confession as a Get Out of Jail Free Card. Churchs are literally full of people who worship themself so I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make here.

>>81443185
I'm sorry your life isn't yours

>>81443134
this.

I'm a christian and have respect for other faiths and beliefs but the Vatican and Church as the organization has always bothered me

>>81442412
>Why is a statue idolatrous but not the written word when they are both graven images that depict God?
You must be joshing.
Behind the written word is not solely a depiction of God, but of principles and morals essential to the Christian faith.
A statue (unless it is a well-done work of artistic expression) does not lend itself to the same depth.

>>81435673

HURR DURR KINO AM I RIGHT KINO MUH KINO SO KINO EPIC MINO MUH KINO I'M A KINO FAGGOT SO KINO MUH KINO MEME DURRRRRR KINO KINO KINO KINO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>>81443371
Matthew 6:6

>>81441626
again, it would only be a question of faith if the jesuits believed they could teach people of the european god without learning their language.

>>81444139
>Religion is basically just a guideline on how to be a decent human being and not a total piece of shit

its like you want people to post all the biblical passages advocating incest, rape, slavery, capital punishment for adultery, etc.

>>81440648
It was already established in roman times that people who fake converted would still go to heaven even if their brethren died for the faith.
Go join the donatellists in North Africa, oh wait...

>>81445539
>donatellists
Tell that to Paul's snapped neck.

>>81445535
>implying every Christfag sitting in pews at church reads every last passage from the Bible

I said religion is basically a guideline on how not to be a piece of shit, not that the Bible is a text of peace. You can dig into the Kuran and Talmud and find open advocations for genocide and pedophilia and worse.

Keep splitting hairs and putting words in anons mouths tho faggot, its really gotten you pretty far ITT

>>81445727
Is he from the movie? I haven't watched the film.
Anyway personal correction: it were the Donatists*
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donatism

>>81445860
What you're really saying is organized religion is nothing but an excuse to organize communities around profit seeking entities.

>>81442152
Yeah, "hollywood" dirty, and it's not only about how characters look, but about everything - sets, camera work and picture itself, even the story - it smoothes out all the rough edges and turns an actual story of a struggle into the typical fable

>>81445535
>all the biblical passages advocating incest, rape, slavery, capital punishment for adultery, etc.
All OT/Not was Jesus advcated. If you look at Jesus' actual teachings, not only does he amend much of Talmudic law, at times he openly contradicts it.

>>81446043
>https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donatism
>m
Mobile posters can fucking leave