/who/ - Doctor Who General

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OH MY GOD THIRTEEN REVEALED

I've had a whole year to tune myself into the psychic network and INTEGRATE WITH ITS MATRICES

>>81259558
I know you're just repeating what you said last thread but this unironically BTFOs the OP

Reminder that the BBC is now hosting fanfiction you submit

https://www.mixital.co.uk/channel/doctor-who-fanfiction

>>81258661
What?

>>81259558
YOU COULD BE SO BEAUTIFUL

>>81259508
"The 10th Doctor was the best and the show will never be as good as it was when he was around"
Hinchclife > Letts > Lloyd/Bryant >>>> Moffat > Lambert/Wiles > RTD >>>>> JNT = Chibnall

Ranking the Capaldi era so far

GOAT Tier
Heaven Sent
Mummy on the Orient Express
The Husbands of River Song

Great Tier
Before the Flood
Under the Lake
Last Christmas
The Zygon Inversion
The Zygon Invasion
Flatline

Good Tier
Deep Breath
Dark Water
The Witches Familiar
The Magicians Apprentice
The Return of Doctor Mysterio
Face the Raven
Time Heist
Into the Dalek
Death in Heaven
Hell Bent
Listen

Shit Tier
The Girl Who Died
Robot of Sherwood
Kill the Moon
The Caretaker
In the Forest of the Night
The Woman Who Lived
Sleep No More

>>81259786
>Shit Tier
>The Girl Who Died
You are wrong.

>>81259786
>Shit Tier
>Robot Of Sherwood
It was fun and comfy frank off.

>>81259786
>The Husbands of River Song
>that high
>Last Christmas
>that high

>>81259786
>GOAT Tier
>Heaven Sent

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The episode never spends 120 minutes explaining the intricacies of the Confession Dial, so it's absolute dogshit!

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>>81259552
Sorry wrong pic

>>81259786
>Great Tier
>The Zygon Inversion
>The Zygon Invasion

Hhahahahahahaaha

fuck off mahmood

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Reminder

https://twitter.com/edwardrussell/status/849248209427890178

>>81259786
>BEST EPISODE OF ALL TIME
Heaven Sent

>God Tier
Listen
Mummy on the Orient Express
Flatline
Dark Water

>Great Tier
Last Christmas
The Magician's Apprentice/The Witch's Familiar
The Zygon Invasion/The Zygon Inversion
Face the Raven
Deep Breath

>Good Tier
Into the Dalek
Robot of Sherwood
The Girl Who Died
Under the Lake/Before the Flood
Hell Bent
The Husbands of River Song

>Mediocre Tier
The Caretaker
Death in Heaven
The Woman Who Lived

>0/10 will never watch again tier
Kill the Moon
In the Forest of the Night
Sleep No More

Fixed.

>>81259922
Look at it this way, there are probably some lonely small children who will watch this and laugh their heads off.

>>81259911
I will admit I've only seen series 9 once. Im gonna rewatch this week so we'll see how it holds up!

>>81259949
I agree with this list 100%
You're alright anon

>>81259911
who the fuck is mahmood?

>>81259945
What 'launch' is happening?

>>81259997
Series 10? Probably show the first episode or something.
Maybe we'll get some reviews.

>>81259997
For some competition winners and the press - a screening of episode 1, prob with Q&A stuff. It's so advance reviews can start being published, etc.

>>81259786
GOAT Tier
Heaven Sent
Mummy on the Orient Express
Flatline
Dark Water

Great Tier
The Return of Doctor Mysterio
Face the Raven
The Husbands of River Song
The Witches Familiar
Listen
Under the Lake

Good Tier
The Zygon Inversion
Deep Breath
Into the Dalek
Robot of Sherwood
The Girl Who Died

Decent/Comfy Tier
Last Christmas
The Caretaker
Time Heist

Shite Tier
The Zygon Invasion
Before the Flood
The Magicians Apprentice
Kill the Moon
In the Forest of the Night
The Woman Who Lived
Sleep No More
Death in Heaven
Hell Bent

>>81260020
Oh boy, time to hype myself up based on vague comments from the reviewers and then be faintly let down when it actually airs

>>81260020
Mini Matt Smith is reeeeing that he didn't get invited.

>>81260030
>Mysterio
>that high

It's good tier. Nothing more.

>>81259977
I feel bad now. Hope you enjoy the rewatch.

>>81260046
https://twitter.com/lauriehooper/status/849259707076399106

>>81259949
>Hell Bent
>That high

>>81259983
Thank you friend.

>>81260094
>>Hell Bent
>>That high
>>in a press release for 4chan

>Episode
>In a position that doesn't reflect my opinion

There, I've now covered all replies to list posts.

>>81259601
cfarley posted that on Gallifrey Base. Apparently we're getting multiple Masters.

Edward Russell looks like Moss from The IT Crowd.

>>81260293
>Gallifrey Base

Not true then.

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Who can even tell the difference anymore!

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>>81260293
>tfw Moff has been reduced to ripping off John Dorney now

>>81260364
why was she so smug?

>>81260389
She wasn't, she was maintaining her cool in a perilous situation. This only looks smug if you are looking for smug things and seeing them where they don't exist

>>81260385
Dorney was commissioned to write that story. On the bonus disc he says that the mind-swapping thing wasn't his idea - I think he knew it was a bad one. In any case, the idea of a multi-Master story isn't new - I'm sure some fans thought of it as soon as Ainley was introduced with Beevers/Pratt still alive.

>>81260389
she was killing a timelord and she hates timelords

"Nobody could've survived that crash; it was convenient to the plot of this minisode. Usually, as a Time Lord, you'd have been able to regenerate no problem."

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Someone help me write this

>you will never take advantage of your autistic child to become a Doctor Who journalist

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>>81260577
shit wrong pic

>>81260444
Probably as soon as the Three Doctors established different versions of a Time Lord meeting, really - it'd just be weird if the TV show did it so soon after BF (Moff seems to at least keep an eye on the other media so stories don't overlap, like when he told Gary Russell he had to use Bernice rather than River for his 12 book).

>>81259945
https://twitter.com/da_whelan/status/849229567327961089 keke

>>81260613
Two Masters was probably recorded in, what, 2014 maybe? I doubt Moffat knew he'd be staying for series 10 at the time. He'll usually let BF know what to avoid as a courtesy, but I don't think he'll change his TV plans over them.

>>81260610
You should probably know, I don't think they'll let you put it up if it's got F-words and such in.

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>>81260630
>https://twitter.com/da_whelan/status/849229567327961089

>>81260610
Submit it as the first chapter and see if it's allowed up.

>>81260610
He wasn't actually fired, though, he just stormed off in a cloud of poor social skills. Or is this an AU?

>>81259786
>The Girl Who Died
>Robot of Sherwood
>Kill the Moon
>In the Forest of the Night
>>Shit Tier

more like Shit Taste m8

>>81260749
>he just stormed off in a cloud of poor social skills
Enemy propaganda.

>>81260730
Autistic little shit.

https://twitter.com/0hMySt4rs/status/849000922084757504

>>81260786
It's not his fault, his parents are using him. He probably doesn't even have access to that account.

So the rumour 12 regenerates at the end of the series looks likely given the trailer right?

He's not going to delay it like 10's is he?

I couldn't stand the 30 minutes long companion sequence.

>>81260734
>>81260712
I censored the F-bomb and published it, can we try getting it to the front page?
https://www.mixital.co.uk/digitalmake/z7ew2teitq

>>81260730
Seems you can't be a Matt without being a salty snake

>>81260610
I tried to write shitty fanfiction once, but I couldn't produce results I wanted.

>>81260828
>I couldn't stand the 30 minutes long companion sequence.
kek, Capaldi only needs 6 minutes. 2 for River, 1 for Nardole, 0 for Bill, 3 for Clala

>>81260828
It would be nice if he dies in the end, and let us have Christmas with the new Doctor, although, I'd rather they stop mixing regeneration with Christmas.

https://twitter.com/AdamOrford1/status/848138400297345024

Adam would be down the job centre

>>81260867
>He walks down a corridor.
>Looks through a window
>Someone is writing a script.
>kek, it's Steven Moffat.
>Capaldi sits down and weeps, shouting " I COULD HAVE BEEN SO MUCH MORE"

>>81260921
I actually seen Adams look alike today. If it wasn't in Ireland I'd have thought it was him. Who hoodie and receding hair line and all

>>81260828
it's a fake out
he's regenerating at christmas

>>81260786
Don't be a Whelan.

xmas doesnt start filming until july, lads

which will be after the finale has aired

so who's to say it's not all one big mislead

capaldi may've already finished

xmas could be 13's debut or a one-off doctor

>>81260961
Xmas will see 12 in his mind palace struggling to come to terms with himself and eventually regenerating. Set in various TARDIS rooms, he'll hallucinate all of his former companions along the way.

>>81260921
Adam is loaded, mate. You're the shut-in.

12 starts to regenerate in the finale, which ends on a cliffhanger that leads into the Christmas Special.
The Christmas Special will be similar to Heaven Sent. It's set entirely inside the Doctor's mind as he's regenerating and he meets "ghosts" in his head such as Clara, Danny Pink, and Missy, who taunts him throughout and wishes him to die.

>>81260957
Poor Graham :/

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>>81260961
>tfw the time lords force him to regenerate 507 times because they gave him to much regeneration energy

>>81261071
>Unstable Regenerations so he changes actors every now and again in the Christmas special.

Bravo Moffat.

>>81261021
Basically like 5's regeneration but for 45 minutes.

>>81261131
The Christmas special is about multiple alternative timelines in which Doctor is a different person. In the end viewers vote which one timeline becomes mine and the rest get erased.

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>>81261071
>mfw the Tardis Data Core explodes with autism

>>81261020
>Adam is loaded

Maybe his parents who have to support him

>>81261197
>Moffat's final act is showrunner is to obliterate all attempts at logically categorising 'canon' and 'continuity' creating schisms and shockwaves in the fanbase that will still be raging in 50 years

>>81261020
Don't you have actors to stalk, Adam?

>>81261229
Don't his parents care that he literally spends 8 months of the year tracking down and stalking the DW cast?

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>>81261196

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>>81261178
And Timewyrm Revelation, but with potential Doctors instead of past ones

>>81261196
>INTRODUCING BIG RON AS THE DOCTOR

>>81261323
that book looks pretty thin

almost as thin as a stemo plot

>>81261323
that's what paul "pussy destroyer" cornell looked like?

>>81261273
I love this as a reaction so much. It reminds me of that photo some autist took of Chloe Moretz.

>>81261323
ERMEGHERD. SHEGGER

>>81261273
what's this from?

>>81261451
Devious, the fan film.

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yfw 12 walks into the 2010 title sequence and wakes up in the shower as matt smith

>>81261443
What did he mean by this?

/who/, which is the worst episode that Steven Moffat's written since 2010?

>>81261579
All of them are equally garbage

>>81261579
The Doctor, the Widow, and the Wardrobe

>>81261579
Widow and the Wardrobe, no real competition.

>>81261579
Let's Kill Hitler
The Wedding of River Song
The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe
The Name of the Doctor
The Time of the Doctor (mostly the naked church shite)
Listen
Last Christmas
Hell Bent

All shit-tier.

>>81261622
[annoyed reply]

>>81261579
>Let's Kill Hitler
>Wedding of River Song
>Asylum of the Daleks
>Time of the Doctor
>Death in Heaven
>Magician's Apprentice
>Hell Bent

>>81261649
None of these are worse than Widow and the Wardrobe or even close desu.

>>81261622
>forgetting Death in Heaven

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>>81260836
topkek i liked it

>>81261666
Widow's worst crime is how dull and boring it is.

The others in anon's list contain some absolute shite.

>>81261579
Heaven Sent

It doesn't explain every miniscule detail about the Confession Dial so it's literally the worst ever!!!!!

>>81261579
Probably Widow, but I never watched it. So Let's Kill Hitler for being so dumb, Hell Bent for being so disorganized, Magician Apprentice for its lack of plot (Excusable for being part 1 of a decent two-parter though), Time of the Doctor, for being a feature-length trainwreck or Angels Take Manhattan for being just plane dumb across the board.

>>81261691
>Widow's worst crime is how dull and boring it is.
It has multiple scenes that are literally painful. The whole climax once they get into the main tree room (and realise they need a womb to pilot it) and then she starts wigging out when she's connected to the tree, is verging on unwatchable.

>>81261746
>>81261649
>>81261622
You're not answering the question.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALcQh2HqKT4

Still wish this was a real thing. Would work brilliantly as a 10-15 minute CBBC series alongside the main show.

Hey guys. Think we'll get a trailer especially for The Pilot on Saturday. Or even a plogical?

>>81261942
>plogical

I still don't understand how the fuck Sammi managed to do that

Has anyone seen the latest two trailers on TV yet - apart from then BBC 2 aired the most recent one...?

I've only seen the specially shot one

>>81262141
Wibbly Wobbley fucking google it.

>>81262180
m8 normies arent going to fucking google it are they? The series is back in 11 days and they've shown fuck all on TV

>>81261596
I agree that all your eps are shite Russel

Do you ever think Moffat or Capaldi read /who/?

https://twitter.com/RichardAArnold/status/849283015931035648

>>81262450
No. Capaldi doesn't have time to waste on sad internet people and Moffat wasn't even willing to put up with Twitter mentions.

>>81259786
A lot of this is objectively incorrect

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>>81262450
I sure fucking hope not

4=5>3=1>2>8=6>9>7

My rankings.

>>81262450
I like to think he does. We provide a nicer experience than GB or twitter

>>81262584
Careful, you'll summon it

I've had a whole year to tune myself into the psychic network and INTEGRATE WITH ITS MATRICES

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>it's a 'we should negotiate with terrorists' episode

>>81262450
Moffat definitely reads tumblr. Heaven Sent was Whouffaldi fan fiction.

>>81262837
>it's we deny immigrants any chance to be integrated into society without hiding who they are, and be bigoted to them, they will eventually accept their place episode

>>81261980
He does it all the fucking time, it's insane. Listen to his Who news report and he'll mispronounce a word every minute, or completely swap it with another one that makes no sense

>>81262837
>>81262939
>It's a politically charged episode

>>81262990
>it's an ineptly politically charged episode

"Hello! Recently, it was announced that BritBox (your streaming service you host with ITV exclusive to America) will start streaming Classic Doctor Who (sans the missing episodes, of course).

My complaint is that here in the UK, we don't have any places to watch our beloved show in its classic form! Each DVD retails for about the same price as it costs for an American to purchase BritBox, meaning an American gets to watch the entire show for the same price that we pay to watch just one serial of.

I'm writing in to complain, and, chiefly, to ask if it would at all be possible to perhaps put Classic Doctor Who up for streaming on Netflix in the UK, alongside its younger counterpart. I know there are many fans who would love this addition to the Netflix library.

Thanks!"

My complaint to the BBC

>>81262837
Hey guys. I'd appreciate if you didn't behead any more people. Its really hurting our feelings. And please stop driving cars into crowds of tourists. Thanks :-)

>>81262837
>>81262939
>>81262990
>>81263024

>it's an episode i disagree with

>>81262939
Mahmoud is angry that he could not bring his child bride with him

>>81261521
>"Oh god, not another crack in a wall"

Can't wait for the alt-right cucks to be sent to the gulags. Accelerationism will do that to you

>>81263120
Cracks in walls and other interstitial spaces have been a key part of Doctor Who's semiotics since the start, arguably including the TARDIS itself as a door between worlds. To go without them too long might trigger a qlippothic narrative collapse.

Reminder that the xmas special will be kino as fuck as it takes place entirely inside 12's mind TARDIS as he struggles with his regeneration

>>81262837
The Doctor doesn't propose negotiation with the terrorists i.e. the striking of a deal between the humans and the zygons trying to kill everyone.
He uses a sci-fi conceit and his linguistic power of persuasion to defuse the conflict on both sides simultaneously, because he's a fictional hero and he can do that.

No, the problem is that we never get a coherent image of how the social circumstances of the Zygons are affecting them psychologically and why they would naturally result in an insurgency. We just get 'nice Zygons' who are happy living in disguise, and 'bad Zygons' who just happen to really hate it because...??? We get vague mentions that they were 'treated like cattle' but no development regarding how they actually suffered from UNIT's treatment and whether it was unfair. We get a mention of a child Zygon fucking up its disguise in the presence of humans and a huge shitstorm kicking off, but if that's an inherent systemic problem it just sort of gets forgotten about.
So without a real material problem for the Doctor to solve other than "Bonnie's an bitter arsehole", his solution is always going to feel a bit hollow.

Series 5 Matt > Series 9 Peter > Chris > S4 Tennant > S3 tennant > Series 8 Peter > Series 6 Smith > Series 2 Tennant > Series 7 Smith

>>81259954
There aren't children watching Doctor Who anymore, it's all fat 30+ year old convention-visiting numales like the people on this general.

GUYS CAPALDICK IS GONNA BE AT A CONVENTION NEAR ME NEXT MONTH WHAT DO I ASK HIM

>>81263220
Entirely separate from the quality of series 6, Series 6 Smith is excellent and deserves more credit than this. Series 6 contains several of his most fascinating performances.

>>81261579
Hell Bent

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>>81263066
>the BBC spent millions trying to create an Iplayer style archive for it's past programs.
>it failed, instead was turned into BBC Store.
>BBC executives asked why they couldn't have just used Youtube and why it was so difficult.

>>81261579
Hell Bent was shite tbqh.

>>81263078
>it's an episode that nobody in their right mind would agree with, because it tried to discuss complex social politics on children's telly

Like, seriously. What kind of solution does Doctor have for Zygon crisis? None. Just force them into hiding, tell no one, and when they slip up and violence is committed against them and they rise in self-defence in pursuit of self-determination, shame their leader with rather inane insinuations about their motives and the problem will go away.

>>81263321
If he browses /who/

or better yet, ask him to come on and join us. It's anomalous so we wouldn't know!

>>81263321
Doctor no more...

Doctor no more...

>>81263355
Doctor no more...

>>81263436
Doctor no more...

>>81263321
Make him sign a /who/ meme

What are the War Doctor's first words?

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>>81263321
Get him to sign this one, I think he'd actually get a kick out of it.

I've had a whole year to tune myself into the psychic network and INTEGRATE WITH ITS MATRICES

>>81263726
"Doctor no more", anon.

TITRES RELEASED

The Pilot
Smile
Thin Ice
Knock Knock
Oxygen
Extremis
The Pyramid at the End of the World
The Lie of the Land
The Empress of Mars
The Eaters of Light

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>>81263788
>TITRES

What were the technically ninth Doctor's first words?

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>>81263788
>The Pyramid at the End of the World

>>81263788
TIRES RELEASED
TREVOR RELEASED

>>81263847
It's real though. Girly Letters posted them on GB.

>>81263788
You're missing two.

>>81263844
If Rose happens immediately after DOTD, "Run." Otherwise, we don't know.

>>81263882
Damn, then it must be real.

>>81263905
Not Eccleston. The technically ninth Doctor.

>>81263905
Even if he goes directly from regeneration to that adventure, he probably would have said other stuff before encountering Rose.

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>>81263788
>The Pyramid at the End of the World
>The Empress of Mars

>>81263321
Which one?

>>81263902
They're TBA. I just got my Doctor Who Magazine.

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>>81263788
>The Lie of the Land
More like The Pie of the Land

>>81263978
Pic?

>>81263948

M-MOMMY!

>>81263948
>F E for use of public
What did they mean by this?

>>81263975
Wizardcon

>>81263948
No Doctor should be this wildly attractive

It's real guys

'The Pilot' by Steven Moffat
'Smile' by Frank Cottrell-Boyce
'Thin Ice' by Sarah Dollard
'Knock Knock' by Mike Bartlett
'Oxygen' by Jamie Mathieson
'Extremis' by Steven Moffat
'The Pyramid at the End of the World' by Peter Harness
'The Lie of the Land' by Toby Whitehouse
'The Empress of Mars' by Mark Gatiss
'The Eaters of Light' by Rona Munro
'TBA' by Steven Moffat
'TBA' by Steven Moffat

>>81264424
>'Extremis' by Steven Moffat

Oh god. Is this a Marvel crossover?

The Pilot is on at 19:20.

>>81264424
>The Pyramid at the End of the World
Worst title ever.

>>81264424
Casting my bets now.
>The Pilot is an okay episode, slightly better than Bells of St John.
>Smile and Thin Ice are meh and put everyone into that start of series funk.
>Bartlett's and Mathieson's episodes are good fun, some people find them GOAT.
>Moffat's episode of the trilogy is GOAT GOAT. Harness' episode is intensely polarising. Whithouse's brings it to a faintly disappointing conclusion.
>Gatiss' episode is shit as usual.
>Munro's episode is awkward in parts but commendable and refreshing in others.
>First part of the finale is GOAT. Second part is just okay.

I'm not kidding when I say I actually believe people who watch Dr. Who consistently have a lower IQ than average compared to the general population.

I am guessing the average Dr. Who fan's IQ could be from 85 to 90, possibly lower. I base this off of my personal experience in that the only two people I am well acquainted with that watch the show are a couple of childhood friends who I know both have an IQ around 85 because we were all tested in middle school. Not only that, but every other fan I've ever met of the show, I found really hard to connect to because for the most part they were also the kind of people obsessed with Minions and Harry Potter, and could not hold a level of discourse that even an average 9th grader could.

I'm not shitposting I'm just making an observation and want to ask you guys since you are fans- what do you like about it? Why does Dr. Who of all shows have one of the most awful groups of fans? Have I just had bad experiences or what? What is it about the show that attracts these awful retards, and I assume you guys are intelligent or hate most of the fanbase too, so what is it about the show that attracts those people?

A handful "X OF THE Y" titles

YES

Comfy

>>81264424
Where's your farking source.

>>81264623
>not Game of Thrones.

Less people equals less average.

>>81264677
DWM.

Love that FCB has two episodes now, one being
>In the Forest of the Night
and the other being just
>Smile

>>81264678
Game of Thrones is also pretty bad but it doesn't attract quite the same level of cancerous people.

>>81264424
>It's real guys
Well I was skeptical the first time but now that you've posted it again and said "It's real guys" I believe you.

>>81264623
Anything popular attracts retards who just like it because it's popular. In the case of Who, this manifests as Facebook/Tumblr ""people"" who only know Tennant and spout their cancerous opinions everywhere.

>>81264623
>What is it about the show that attracts these awful retards, and I assume you guys are intelligent or hate most of the fanbase too, so what is it about the show that attracts those people?
It's vibrant, optimistic and idiosyncratic, with some occasional deep bits and continuity rabbit holes, which is the perfect combination for attracting people of all ages and IQs who are socially maladjusted and need heavy escapism. It's really that simple.

I'm not inclined to think Doctor Who has anywhere even approaching one of the worst fanbases, literally anything sufficiently popular among a wide demographic has a fanbase roughly as dumb as this, and it's mercifully free of any pattern of extreme psychoticness. Anyone who thinks DW has one of the worst fanbases should be thankful they haven't been exposed to any of the actual worst ones (at least we haven't driven anyone to suicide).

>>81264424
TBA sounds good

Altho having two episodes in a row called that is odd

>>81264848
I can imagine Moff calling his final episode BRB

just for lols

>>81264848
They stand for "The Benefactors' Assault" and "Tappin' Bill's Ass".

>>81264816
>and it's mercifully free of any pattern of extreme psychoticness
This. Be thankful it's not Shrek/Sonic/MLP.

>>81264723
>pretty bad

Nice meme. The first few seasons are some of the finest television available.

That emoji line really fucking irks me

>>81264879
Wait, does Shrek have an actual, active fanbase? I thought it was just memes.

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>tfw Moffat calls his last episode The Finale

>>81264906
Me too, they shouldn't have put that in the trailer.

>>81264906
How can I/do I get through this season coping with Bill's annoying voice?

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>>81263814
>TITTIES

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>>81264913

>>81265057
top fucking kek

>>81264879
I do think Doctor Who's actual saving grace in this regard is the fact it cycles through actors, characters and worlds, and never truly becomes 'about' specific ones. (Like sure, there's a cult around Ten, but that era ended and it's not something that the show continued to feed for the next 5 years.)
The show forces the audience into a perspective that's bigger and wider, and more like the Doctor's, than one where a certain set of characters/relationships/appearances become the entire language of the show and gain religious status among people who need to fill a void of love in their lives.
Doctor Who comes with an inbuilt sense of distance and transience.

>>81264901
Seasons 1-4 were good but everything from Season 5 onwards has been wank

>>81264623
Probably because truly intelligent people have an understanding of how lowbrow Doctor Who is, and talk about theatre and literature and other things you're unlikely to be able to grasp. Your problem is in thinking that you're above your retarded friends.

No, anon. You ARE a retarded friend.

>>81264901
Seasons 5-10 were good but everything from Season 11 onwards has been wank

the finale will be called either The Twelfth Planet, The Finale or The Two Doctors. Cap this.

>>81265573
>The Two Doctors

Here's how I know you haven't watched pre-Tennant Who

>>81265573
>Two Doctors

..Oh god, it's bad enough Power Rangers uses episode titles more than once...

>>81265621
I am aware that's the title of a multi-Doc story already. I just don't think Moffat cares.

>>81265641
>I just don't think Moffat cares.
And why not? When have you seen him reuse the title of a classic Who story?

>>81265641
>I just don't think Moffat cares.

Here's how I know you haven't watched post-Tennant Who

>>81263788
>TITRES
C'est toi françaisanon ?

>>81265687
>implying Moffat has given a shit since Day of the Doctor

>>81265728
S8 and S9 are literally the best Doctor Who material there has ever been. It is the most mature storytelling in any medium of Doctor Who, ever. Hell Bent justified the existence of Doctor Who more than anything else ever has.

>>81265823
KEK
Go to bed Steve

>>81265823
"Homer Simpson is a brilliant man..."

>>81265573
>The Two Doctors
That'd send a few fans into meltdown. I'm all for it.

>>81265845
>>81265848
Whatever. It's my opinion, of course loads of people won't agree with it.

So has there been any more evidence for the finale being a Multi-Doctor with 12 and 1 yet?

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>>81265823

>>81265823
>It is the most mature storytelling in any medium of Doctor Who, ever.

In the New Series? Definitely.

Including the Classic Series? Probably tied with The Massacre.

But overall? Plenty of books reach S8 and S9's level of maturity.

>>81265945
Whelan's digging up evidence we speak.

>>81265908
Your opinion is wrong

>>81265908
The most mature series is s3.

>>81265971
I can't tell if you want an actual discussion, and are using that image to provoke one, or are just memeing at me, but yes, Clara essentially becoming the Doctor is the entire statement of the episode, the assertion that being the Doctor is a good and admirable thing, and a justification for the show's existence.

>>81265975
I didn't mean mature in the sense of dark or adult, I should have clarified, I meant in how grounded it is.

>>81266008
It's good the show brings so many diverse opinions to the table, it will be pretty bland if people didn't disagree about it.

>>81265823
Hell Bent is GOAT. Anyone who disagrees please put a trip on so I can filter out your plebeian opinions.

>>81265975
>Including the Classic Series? Probably tied with The Massacre.

HATE THIS EMME

Season 3 is just as childish as Seasons 1 and 2.

>>81263321
Call him Capaldino constantly

>>81261693
That doesn't make it any better or worse than any other of Moffat's half-baked ideas.

What makes it shit is that for an episode set in a "confession dial" we don't get any new or interesting confessions. Cop-out 2bh.

Oh, and the things that it does explain about the confession dial don't make any sense.

"The rooms reset when I leave them! ...Except for those clothes I leave, and the messages I leave for myself, and the lake of skulls, and the diamond wall. But everything else resets, because the plot requires it." It's built on layers and layers of contrivance. Here's a thought - if you can keep a perfect copy of the Doctor in a teleporters databank, including his mind, personality, and memories - why don't you just upload that into the matrix and google "hybrid?"

"You can probably still hear me. So, just between ourselves, you've got the prophecy wrong. The Hybrid is not half Dalek. Nothing is half Dalek. The Daleks would never allow that - except for Oswin, that one time. The Hybrid, destined to conquer Gallifrey and stand in its ruins, is Me."

And you know what I just realised? Everything Moffat writes is based on the revenge fantasies of a fourteen year old nerd.

>>81266105
>and the lake of skulls, and the diamond wall.
those are not rooms

>>81266074
Yes, the Master enslaving the entire Earth is just as "childish" as Rose leaving Ten forever, or humanity's media-controlled future.


Get out. Stop pretending RTD wrote for kids.

>>81264561
why? it sounds good.

>>81266074
s3 is dark as fuck brooo, deals with some really mature themes. I'd go as far as arguing that the Family of Blood two parter really isn't for kids. They had to shoehorn in the meme scarecrows so they wouldn't lose interest. It's a mature as fuck two parter, and is arguably the most adult story in New-Who. Not surprising considering it came from a VNA.

Steven reveals Pearl was the 1st actor they saw for Bill.
Steven (to Pearl) : You didn't look nervous at the audition.
Pearl: I was acting!

https://twitter.com/bbcdoctorwho

>>81266105
Yeah!!! The episode fucking sucks! Genre fiction for children should be about creating 100% consistent logical worlds above all else!

>>81259558
At least RTD TRIED to explain things and didn't make a joke out of not explaining them:

Clara: I thought you said Gallifrey was frozen in another dimension?
The Doctor: Well they must have unfrozen it and come back.
Clara: How?
The Doctor: I didn’t ask. It would make them feel clever.

>>81266138
>>81266149
Oh my god he's talking about Season 3 not Series 3 you absolute dolts. The post literally refers to Classic Who.

I still disagree with him.

>>81266105
>The Daleks would never allow that - except for Oswin, that one time
And Dalek Sec, but we pretend that never happened

>>81266141
It's overly long compared to the rest of the titles, there's already an episode called The End of the World and there's way too many Who stories with Pyramids in the title.

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>>81266044

>>81266198
Yeah! Fuck storytelling, characterisation, and thematics! All that matters is continuity and logic! That's what make-believe telly for the kids is all about!

I've had a whole year to tune myself into the psychic network and INTEGRATE WITH ITS MATRICES

>>81266202
Lel, even so. I still think I'm right.

FoB deals with
>The nature of war
> The Doctor's pacifism and pacifism in general
>Love
>The Doctor puts Earth at risk by hiding there
>The Doctor's revenge against the Family
>Racism a little bit
>>81266242
Lel, ignore these episodes and s3 is nigh on perfect

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>the plotholefags are out in full force

>>81266105
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2016-01-07/steven-moffat-has-filled-in-the-plot-holes-from-doctor-who-heaven-sent

>>81266198
That would've been boring as fuck if they stopped to explain that.

>>81266224
Pyramids of Mars

............

>implying the Monk three-parter isn't a multi-Master story

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>>81266270

>>81266289
Nah man, Doctor Who is all about satisfying the hyperobsession of manchildren and their fixation on worldbuilding consistency in a patchwork show literally built off the invalidity of canon. Forget fun, pacing, characters, ideas, it's all about them plot holes!

>>81266270
>Lel, ignore these episodes and s3 is nigh on perfect

You would also have to ignore The Shakespeare Code, The Lazarus Experiment, and the Doctor integrating himself with the psychic network's matrices.

>>81265981
He's just gotten into Hartnells grave. The casket is empty. Hes back confirmed

>>81266289
Only boring if the writer writes boring exposition.

>>81266289
Moffat only did that line because he thought he was buggering off last year. I applauded the audacity of that actually...don't explain anything to these fucking nerds. Show's always done that.

>>81266105
>why don't you just upload that into the matrix and google "hybrid?"
This would require further layers of contrivance to explain how an arrangement of atoms can be 'googled' for neural information.

>The Daleks would never allow that - except for Oswin, that one time.
A human being processed into a Dalek is not todding about being half Dalek, although if we really want to go there the fact it was locked in an asylum for reject Daleks which shortly got blown up seems pertinent. A better example would be the Facepenis Dalek, although that one got shot down thus proving the point.

>we don't get any new or interesting confessions
We got a mildly controversial re-reconception (i.e. a reversion to the original vague idea) of the nature of 1 and Susan's flight from Gallifrey, and thus his fundamental motive in the series.

Fuck the RTD slander. I'm going back to /r/doctorwho. It was a good few weeks, /who/. Then it all went to shit.

>>81266382
Nah man, Heaven Sent is literally the worst of all time because it doesn't descend into inane overexplanation of a make-believe fantasy concept aimed for families watching the telly in the evening.

>>81266347
Shakespeare is a fun rompy episode, obligatory first historical ep with companion, Lazarus is a steaming turd, the resolution to the finale is bad yeah but the rest of it is gr8

>>81266331
Colin Baker and the Pyramids of Pie

>>81266382
We've known he was scared since the Sound of Drums. "Some were inspired. Some ran away. And some...some went mad."

"Which one were you?"

"Oh, one of the ones that ran away!"

I've had a whole year to tune myself into the psychic network and INTEGRATE WITH ITS MATRICES

>>81266247
>All that matters is continuity and logic!
No but if there's next to no continuity or logic then why should the audience take anything that happens in the show seriously? It might as well be a fucking sketch show.

>>81266289
It couldn't have been any more tedious than Clara's umpteenth return and departure.

>>81266133
>those are not rooms

The diamond wall was in a room, and thus, part of the room. Are you going to argue that the furniture is not part of the rooms, either? If the moat isn't part of a room, how is the soil in the garden, that conveniently reburies itself? Doesn't excuse the plotholes, m'friendo

Finale confirmed title "Keeping up with the Mondasians"

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>>81266404
Fuckity bye

>>81266438
>No but if there's next to no continuity or logic then why should the audience take anything that happens in the show seriously? It might as well be a fucking sketch show.
RIVER: Clara, if you go into Dr Who's timestream the real you will die.
CLARA: Okay.

>Jumps into his timestream
>Does what needs to be done
>Stands around a bit in some neverplace
>Dr Who waltzes in, talks to her
>Clala collapses, Dr Who picks her up
>They walk back out
>Clala perfectly unaffected by the next episode

>>81266421
I unironically agree. What's also interesting is the comparison between Turn Left and the S3 finale. With the Master's takeover, nobody loses faith and everyone Martha meets is helpful, whereas Turn Left is basically the opposite.

>>81266438
Hell yeah man! And fuck every work of magical realism too, why don't they explain the scientific intricacies either? And fuck Shakespeare too! How did the witches in Macbeth use magic? We didn't get hours of exposition explaining the scientific basis of their prophecies, so Macbeth is the worst of all time!

Fiction is all about scientific realism! All the best works have it, not just the painful hard science-fiction that only manchildren read!

>>81266471
BU HEAVEN SENT IS PURFEKCT UCK U H8R

>>81266438

It. Is. A. Show. About. Time. Travel. You will literally never be satisfied with that mindset.

>>81266471
>“It’s not a room in the castle, it’s the outer wall of the [Confession] Dial,” he explained. “The clue is that it’s 20 feet of Harder Than Diamond. Why bother making it so hard, if a resetting stone wall would do?”

>>81266198
If the Doctor had just popped along to Gallifrey for an adventure and said this, it wouldn't be paying off the position of Gallifrey in the series. But the fact Gallifrey sneaks up on him in secret and emerges after an extremely horrible plan to capture him provides that gravity.
Considering that part of the Time Lords' bag is unfathomable power, the question of how they would navigate a spatial inconvenience (made with their own technology...) isn't inherently a story that needs telling unless you make it one by adding in additional context and conflicts.

>>81266552
It still needs some sort of fucking internal consistency within its various plots, otherwise what's stopping them writing any old shit and going "yep erm time travel or summink fuckity bye"

>>81266404
same. how can you fucks actually like moffat? he thinks the sun shines out of his own arse, i really can't stand the man's personality, and his writing has gone downhill dramatically too. i rewatched s5 this week and holy shit it's night and day compared to s9

>>81266287
>http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2016-01-07/steven-moffat-has-filled-in-the-plot-holes-from-doctor-who-heaven-sent

None of that answers the plotholes.
He literally just re-states the plotholes.

“The first time round the castle, the Doctor is there for many years,” Moffat said, ”because there is no clue leading him to room 12. He’s ancient by the time he understands that room 12 is important.”
“After a few thousand years of this, he realizes he’s going too slowly. He needs to get the next version of himself into room 12 faster.”
His solution? Write ambiguous clues (“I am in 12”) all over the castle, hoping that some might survive the dodgy resetting process like the skulls in the lake, the drying clothes and the dust in the teleport room (as well as the portrait of Clara, which Moffat says the “soppy” Doctor painted himself). In the end the paving slab did make it through the reset, and the Doctor’s mission became a lot easier."

So, yeah. The resetting process is "dodgy" as a result entirely of a plot contrivance, which is exactly what I said. It has no consistency purely so that Moffat can create a bullshit mystery.

>>81266502
Yes. Wanting ONE LINE giving a reasonably satisfying explanation for Gallifrey's return is analogous to demanding "hours of scientific exposition". You need to calm down and start using your brain.

>>81266198

Gaiman, Cornell, RTD, all have explicitly stated what makes Gallifrey and the Time Lords work best is literally NOT EXPLAINING THINGS. It's why The War Games is GOAT and Invasion of Time is WOAT

>>81266600
Okay who stole my post?

>>81266404
bye_bitch.gif

ANGELS RETURNING

https://twitter.com/bbcdoctorwho/status/849339620865265664

>>81266655
It's not real.

>>81266655
gah the link looked real. you got me anon :(

>>81266603
>Write ambiguous clues (“I am in 12”) all over the castle, hoping that some might survive the dodgy resetting process

kek

Basically, he's saying "I don't know. How about this theory. Sometimes it wasn't a perfect reset, because... reasons."

>>81266627
Wasn't IoT also written in about a week after the "loads of cats in Wimbledon Stadium" story fell through?

>>81266655
how'd you disable the embed link? that's usually how i tell when they're fake. Nice trolling.

>>81266655
The fact that they made a cameo in Class means they are forever ruined.

>>81266737
I don't understand how that would be relevant, though IIRC you're right. The point is overexplaining Time Lord stuff is boring and robs them of their mystique. Keeping them godly and unknown makes them interesting. It's why the Time War worked well when not depicted (most of NewWho) but shit when actually detailed (War Doc audios) too.

>>81266655
Well of course they're 'still out there', it's not like we ever saw them go extinct. This is non-news.

>>81266772
Lungbarrow and Infinity Doctors work fine though

>>81266759
they were already ruined in s5

>>81266655
Of course they're out there...we just saw a massive storyline with them teased in the likely axed Class

I hope this doesnt wind up being the Scorpion Rain of the series (PR fans will know what I mean by that)

>>81266502
Magic realism actually serves a thematic point, it's not a lazy plot contrivance but something that calls attention to the artificiality of the text itself, which is one of the major pre-occupations of post-modernism.

It's not, however, one of the major pre-occupations of Doctor Who, and entirely a product of Moffat's own insecurity and laziness. By lampshading shitty story-telling, you're just drawing attention to the shitty story-telling itself, and far from allowing you to suspend disbelief, it compromises any such existing suspension. Is the point of Doctor Who to actively work against your emotional investment in the storyline by pointing out how flimsy and contrived and stupid all the plots actually are, and thus, prevent you from investing in them entirely? No? Then it's fucking retarded.

You're relying, fairly stupidly, on false equivalence for a text which never actually breaches the rules of its internal consistency, and once again makes a metaphorical point through the use of magic - it is entirely because Macbeth is told of the prophecy that he goes on to make it happen. All the Witches do is offer a prophecy - it is Macbeth's hubris and ambition which causes him to invest it with meaning, and indeed work to make it happen, proving that ultimately he engineered his own fate.

>>81266812
I personally agree and think they're rare exceptions to the rule, but c'mon, Lungbarrow is extremely controversial and divisive because of this exact reason.

>>81266847
JNT certainly thought so, stopping them from making it in Season 26 because he felt it revealed too much.

>>81266841
Hell yeah man, Doctor Who never makes thematic points! Clara becoming functionally immortal, gaining a TARDIS and a mysterious offsider was all for a random gag, totally wasn't making any kind of commentary or thematic statement at all! Moffat totally sucks!

>>81266557
> Are you going to argue that the furniture is not part of the rooms, either? If the moat isn't part of a room, how is the soil in the garden, that conveniently reburies itself? Doesn't excuse the plotholes, m'friendo

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2016-01-07/steven-moffat-has-filled-in-the-plot-holes-from-doctor-who-heaven-sent

literally confirmed to be a lazy device in this article

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>>81266847
>extremely controversial and divisive
>a bad thing

>>81266889
Calm down. First of all, that has nothing to do with plot inconsistencies. Clara's immortality isn't a plot hole, which was what we were talking about.

Second of all, why don't you explain what statement that it makes? Try not to get upset this time.

Who honestly nominated Doctor Mysterio for a Hugo? As someone who liked the episode, likes Doctor Who and thinks some episodes of it deserved Hugos, I don't think it really deserves the Hugo at all. It's not even Moffat firing on all cylinders, let alone a worthy representation of what SFF was capable of in 2016.

>>81266926
I refuse to believe someone clearly intelligent like you doesn't understand the statement Hell Bent was making. It is the shallowest of subtexts, literal children understand the point of the episode. I'm sure you understand perfectly well what Moffat was saying with the final shot of the episode, if nothing else. I assume you dislike the statement which of course is perfectly valid, but let's be adults and quit pretending there isn't one there.

>>81264868
>Tappin' Bill's Ass
It'll end up and empty threat like Let's Kill Hitler, Kill the Moon or Clara's Lesbian Experience

>>81266940
The person that nominated the episode for a Hugo............................................was Me.

>>81266270
> The Doctor's pacifism and pacifism in general
This statement reminded me of the Doctor's Daughter and made me throw up in my moth a little. Such a shit episode

Fan made, but pretty good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRi4xmQeIN0

I've had a whole year to tune myself into the psychic network and INTEGRATE WITH ITS MATRICES

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>>81267110

>>81266627
There's a big difference between NOT explaining something that you HAVE described to leave it up to the viewer's imagination, and admitting to the audience that you HAVEN'T described something you CAN'T explain because you HAVE no imagination.

RTD:

>Nightmare Child
>Armies of Meanwhiles and Neverweres
>Could've-Been-King

Moffat:

>"LOL WHO CARES xD"

>>81267166
What did he mean by this?

>>81267168
Hell yeah man, Moffat absolutely never makes vague allusions to give a sense of mystery! There's no such episode as Listen! There's no such character as the Curator! It's not like literally every single one of his monsters revolves around fear of the unknown! RTD rules, Moffat drools!

>>81267166
Working title: A Doc In His Eye

>>81267068
It was just sort of all right. Nothing special, nor is it anything worth sharing.

Nice video, though. I'm sure you put a lot of time into it.

>>81267323
>>81267323
>>81267323

>>81267323
>>81267323
>>81267323

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We /pointless/ now?

>>81259786
GOAT tier:
Mummy on the Orient Express*
Flatline*
Heaven Sent*

Great tier:
Into the Dalek
Dark Water
Under the Lake/Before the Flood*
The Girl Who Died/The Woman Who Lived*
Zygon Inversion
Face the Raven/Hell Bent
Husbands of River Song*
Return of Doctor Mysterio

Good tier:
Deep Breath
Robot of Sherwood*
Listen
The Caretaker*
Death in Heaven
Magician's Apprentice/Witch's Familiar
Zygon Invasion

Shit tier:
Time Heist
In the Forest of the Night
Last Christmas
Sleep No More

Worst Episode Ever Made:
Kill the Moon*

(*) denote comfy episode (note Kill the Moon is comfy ironically)

>>81266975
What's the message, then?

I don't think there is much of a message. I feel like it's the first time Moffat's actually engaged with a real, human emotion - grief - and depicted it in a convincing way, but the message is...what? That the Doctor always wins, no matter what, because he won't give up? That's not much of a message, it's not new, and interesting.

The thing is, the argument, either way, is not that Heaven Sent has or doesn't have a message. It's that the plotholes themselves are not an intrinsic part of the message in the way that magic realism is, and that furthermore, the flippant way with which Moffat has consistently abused story-telling rules with "timey wimey" makes it impossible to invest in the stakes of Doctor Who any more.

Heaven Sent is problematic because it hinges entirely on a jaw-dropping reveal which makes less and less sense the more you look at it, which devalues the episode as a whole. It is a concept-driven episode in which the execution is not equal to the idea.

>>81267243
>the Curator
>Listen
You just named two of Moffat's biggest failures. I can't even tell whose side you're on.

>>81267333
source?

>>81267351
What the fuck, you're serious. The message is that emulating the Doctor is a good thing dude. That's why Clara doesn't just die ignobly after basically becoming him, instead she completely mantles the role. It's a justification of the show itself, saying that displaying the best of the Doctor's values is a good, worthy thing. It's a validation of the show's escapism.

>>81267243
I agree!
Listen was silly because it reveals Clara invented the Doctor, destroying any sense of mystery IN the Doctor! You're absolutely right -

>Moffat absolutely never makes vague allusions to give a sense of mystery!

What he does instead is explain things very badly - which isn't a mystery in Doctor Who, it's a mystery as to why he was employed in the first place!

The Curator is clearly Tom Baker, and isn't a mystery at all, because it's a fourth-wall breaking moment included as a mystery to the fans!

It absolutely isn't like every one of Moffat's monsters revolves around fear of the unknown either, that's correct! He explains all the rules of his monsters in one episode, which stops them from being unknown, and there is no monster in Listen! And besides, there's nothing unknown about statues! That's not about the fear of the unknown, it's about fear of creepy looking things! Lol!

Glad you agree with me though!!!

>>81266975
>Hell Bent

>>81267351
>Heaven Sent

literally no reading comprehension second anon

>>81267351
>wanting messages

>>81267473
>The Curator is clearly Tom Baker, and isn't a mystery at all, because it's a fourth-wall breaking moment included as a mystery to the fans!

Jesus Christ, other anon was wrong because the Curator is explained well enough in the episode as the Doctor's final incarnation, but you're even more thick for thinking it's a fourth-wall break. THEY LITERALLY SAY WHAT HE IS IN DIALOGUE

>>81267399
Digiguide

>>81267333
>Pre-show Pointless thread
comfy as fuck

I've had a whole year to tune myself into the psychic network and INTEGRATE WITH ITS MATRICES

Last network: >>81259508

Series 10 matrices: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbJqNa0_Oz0

>>81267441

>What the fuck, you're serious. The message is that emulating the Doctor is a good thing dude. That's why Clara doesn't just die ignobly after basically becoming him, instead she completely mantles the role. It's a justification of the show itself, saying that displaying the best of the Doctor's values is a good, worthy thing. It's a validation of the show's escapism.

Well, nah, not really. Moffat's entire arc for s8 and s9 was "the Doctor isn't a good man", and any number of episodes in s9 are about the Doctor getting increasingly cagey about Clara toying with people's lives. It's not a good thing to emulate the Doctor - everything he does in Heaven Sent is condemned in Hell Bent BY Clara.

The message of Heaven Sent was "It's not ok to lose people, but you have to move on. You can't stop people from dying, you owe it to them and yourself to grieve them properly."

This is in everything Clara says to the Doctor. If there's a message in Hell Bent, it's that the Doctor needs a companion to ground him and humanise him, and that it's not a good thing to lose your humanity - which Clara does, progressively, throughout season 9.

It's then completely undermined and dismantled because instead of dying, she fucks off in a flying diner.

>>81267522
Ah, so it's not a mystery then?

Okie dokie! xD

Also, that's wrong! He says that MAYBE the Doctor will revisit old faces, the old favorites - and that's just a wink that LOL fans, remember Tom Baker, your fave???

>>81267694
fuck offerino

>>81267654
jfc you must be trolling, ur literally ignoring the posts youre quoting