Ghost in the Shell 95

>muh relatable characters
Go back to capeshit

>>81130449
I've been in the it's-not-good camp too. I think it's just edgies who get a huge boner for anything that doesn't have the power of friendship.

>>81130508
Or sympathetic asswipe.

Tony Soprano is a psychopath but the writers we're able to make you sympathetic towards despite all the fucked up things he does.

Well your first problem is considering the live action movie a "remake", its an adaptation of the original manga.

>>81130646
Cool but I would still like to hear why it's held in high esteem at least among anime fans

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Because the original movie is kinda hyped.

I'm a big fan, but what really got me was the series - Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex. Great mistery, plot, character development, beautifully drawn and really raises a lot of questions regarding AI, the human brain in the future, androids, politics, hacking and all kind of related stuff.

It's in the top as far as sci-fi anime goes, along with Cowboy Bebop and NGE.

Animation + worldbuilding + interesting philosophical quandaries + a pretty innovative vision of technology (for the time). The original movie doesn't have particularly good characterizations, but you can look to the show for that.

>>81130646
The new movie is not any closer to the original manga then it is to any other GitS media, what are you basing that statement on?

>>81130646
wait, are you telling me the movie is closer to the original manga than the animu?

>>81130777
No.

>>81130763
What's the point of world building if there isn't anyone to inhabit it?

What's the point of raising interesting philosophical questions if they make no attempt to explore it? Like they just put out some points and ask why.

IN 1995 it was groundbreaking

>>81130748
>NGE

Opinion disregarded.

It's literally and unironically 2 deep 4 u

>>81130449

You're right about the dialog which is clumsy and awkwardly direct. However...
> No relateable or sympathetic characters bar Batou
>and no effort is made to define or flesh out character relationships.
Are you autistic or something? Motoko is completely the heart of the movie and her interactions with Batou are why you understand and sympathise with her.

>>81130877
>What's the point of world building if there isn't anyone to inhabit it?
Just because a movie doesn't do one thing well doesn't mean it can't be praised for the things it succeeds at. Blade Runner doesn't have particularly interesting characters either, are you going to make the claim that it wasn't a hugely important film for what it did in terms of cinematography and storytelling?

>What's the point of raising interesting philosophical questions if they make no attempt to explore it? Like they just put out some points and ask why.
You're making a nonsensical circular statement... the act of raising philosophical questions IS the exploration of those topics. That's literally what philosophy is.

>>81131022
>Just because a movie doesn't do one thing well doesn't mean it can't be praised for the things it succeeds at.

Didn't say it couldn't be praised for certain elements, but taking the film as a whole these elements are wasted.

>You're making a nonsensical circular statement... the act of raising philosophical questions IS the exploration of those topics. That's literally what philosophy is.

Maybe I aimed at the wrong thing but just flat out stating things doesn't make GitS particularly deep but the writer seems to think so.

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>>81131555

Only retards thing GitS is deep.

>>81130508
This.

>>81130449
>Batou is the closest thing to a heart the film has.
That's very much intentional.

>>81130449
it's a 7/10 movie. pretty good (if you like the themes it deals with). that is all.

"people" (weebs) say this is a masterpiece because, lets be realistic, 90% of anime is utter trash. so a 7/10 stands out as a 10/10.

>>81131735
>t. someone who has seen 0.1 of all anime

Can we all agree scojo was the wrong choice?

One thing they never really make clear in the original...can the Major reproduce?

The Puppet Master says he wants to merge with the Major so that he can spread his seed around the net. If she's just a brain in a cyborg body, how will she be able to help him out?

>>81131735
This.
Anime can't compare to film and literature but fans want it to so the few "classics" get hyped up to be generational master pieces when they're really just pretty good. If they acknowledged this it would expose the medium.

>>81131821
Ehh...she was just a tad too chubby for anime character. It's a grab-worthy ass IRL though

>>81130449

You have to realize two things OP: the movie dropped both JUST before the internet was a truly wide, everyday thing, and also JUST before animu went mainstream at the turn of the millenium with pokemon etc. It was basically a demonstration (in principle) that you could make animated movies for adults (leaving manchildren legbeard jokes aside).

Also it got a favorable rating from Roger Ebert IIRC which is always helpful AF.

>>81131853
Space magic.

Apparently their real bodies are still in storage BUT she is put into a child bot for some bizzare reason.

>>81131901
Her 'real body' was destroyed in the fight. If you mean her 100% biological body, she has fuck-all ideas about its whereabouts or if it even existed in the first place.

>>81130449
My opinion of it was pretty much the same.

Animation is impressive and the soundtrack is great but I just didn't really give a fuck about anything that happened in it because the characters were not engaging.

>>81131895
>Also it got a favorable rating from Roger Ebert IIRC which is always helpful AF.

Dude clearly didn't know enough about jap culture as to why the major was naked half the time. He thought it was about strong femininity rather than the jap filthy mind of shirow.

>>81130877
>What's the point of raising interesting philosophical questions if they make no attempt to explore it?
The movie is asking the audience these questions, not trying to answer them.

>>81131863
protip from not an idiot: no medium can compare to another

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>>81131969

That was how it was in the manga.
In the film I get the feeling that she just didn't feel any association between her body and herself, so she didn't care.

>>81131969
>He thought it was about strong femininity rather than the jap filthy mind of shirow.
No he thought it had to do with sex starved salary men who project onto strong female characters.

>>81130877
>What's the point of raising interesting philosophical questions if they make no attempt to explore it? Like they just put out some points and ask why.
Because if they did you would cry about them being pretentious and wrong for not agreeing with your view on the matter. Besides, nobody but ego strokers wants to watch a fucking philsophical dissertation in a movie.

>>81131735
>>81131863
I'd be more willing to accept this point if /tv/ ever actually had an intelligent discussion on masterpieces of film.

>>81132042
Why not write an article rather than bog down an entire film. Seriously, the whole world stops just so the characters can blather on. Like that boat scene where Batou asks what she sees in the dark and rather than like a normal person, she instead waxes on about memories and souls, where at one point she literally turns to the fucking audience and talks at them.

>>81132099
>Besides, nobody but ego strokers wants to watch a fucking philsophical dissertation in a movie.

And yet, that's what we got.

>>81130449
well i agree. it is a very shallow story. the whole point of the movie is in the title and there's no subtlety that would make it interesting

>>81132183
>Why not write an article rather than bog down an entire film
Because it's the point of the entire fucking movie.
>Seriously, the whole world stops just so the characters can blather on
Again, those conversations along with the visual direction are pretty much the crux of the entire movie and its themes.
>>81132216
If you think GiTS is a philosophical dissertation, then you are a complete fucking brainlet.

>>81132277
So it's purposely crap and empty and should be reviewed again.

>>81132216
Maybe to an idiot like yourself it seemed like it.

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>>81130449

Watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9v8FzQ2btg

Maybe it will help you to understand some parts of the movie.

>>81132477
>I don't like this movie with more dialogue than action, therefore no one else should
You're a complete idiot. Stick to capeshit

>>81132548
Dialogue? Lol. There very few points in the movie where there is actual dialogue. Most of the conversations are almost practically monologues.

>>81132616

wow it's almost like a movie's story is told visually or something

>>81131895
This. Underrated post.

The movie is great but not for conventional reasons you'd think. It was groundbreaking at the time because anime was never really treated seriously as a medium for adults, and how cyberspace as a concept was just booming. Then there's the fact that its vision of the future felt more grounded in reality than you'd readily expect especially for an animated work, e.g. the cityscape being based on Hong Kong architecture since the creators felt like the future would look more like a clusterfuck of rundown buildings.

Then there's the characterization of Major, in which Oshii was borderline autistic in his portrayal of her compared to the manga, which made for an unconventional take on cyborgs/androids having an existential crisis (even though it was all pretty straightforward by today's standards).

Just because it seems underwhelming taken out of its time, doesn't mean it had no impact for doing what it did. By its lonesome, it's just a nice and simple one-shot GITS story (with its own ending!) paired with some pretty scenery/animation.

>>81130449
Even when it came out i didnt see the hype around it. i know back then anime was rarer and i think that played into it even so i did really rate it.

>>81132544
Eh.. This guy is a little too sure of his own interpretation. Not a huge fan of analyses where someone basically just says "X means Y" so assuredly. Not everything is a blatant metaphor and there are other techniques of conveying themes present in the film.

>>81132671
>>81131895
Pretty fucking wrong.

>>81130449
>Then it has the has the most inane dialogue, pontificating about souls, ghosts, tech, at any given moment. There are close to no real conversations in it either, and no effort is made to define or flesh out character relationships. Almost every moment is setup just so some can start spouting drivel.
This is why I can't watch a lot of anime. They don't talk like real people, it's always some contrived scenario to let them spout philosophy101 shit. That image with Miyazaki talking about anime writers all being autistic really rings true.

>>81132782
Maybe explain why

I think it's a 10/10, it has a Bergman-esque quality.

>>81132805
To be fair, Oshii (the creator of the original film) is a self-admitted autist that has barely had social interactions in his life, and it comes across in his take on GITS with everyone being very subdued and borderline robotic.

>>81132850
I hope you get raped

>>81130449
I don't consider the original a master piece, I consider it a good movie. I think characters in the movie were too different from the original manga. It could be worse, nobody is forcing you to watch Ghost in the Shell Innocence let alone read the Innocence lite novel.

>>81132822
It's surface level observations. The symbolism, the metaphors and the subtlety are still there. 20 years later and anime or even movies (the popular ones at least) are still incapable of doing that.

>>81132870

It comes across in all his films, especially since he does so many adaptations.

>>81132805
It's why the boat scene (and the post-spider fight) annoyed me a lot. They're on a boat and they're drinking, do we get any real character interaction? Nope. Batou justs let her go off on a tangent.

>>81131895
I love this meme. Anime was widestream as fuck in '95. I was born in 1990 and I had seen fuck loads of things my then cause my sister was into anime from about 8 on wards. Anime in the 80's and 90's is no different to the shit you see today. The ONLY difference is that what YOU think is popular isn't as popular as it actually is because the internet is around. Oh wow, people talk about "muh waifu in [insert anime] FUCKING MOE SHIT" when in fact that anime is barely popular in Japan. People like the characters, maybe, but it isn't popular. It's not breaking records. You're conflating memetic content (by it's original Dawkins definition btw) with popularity. While the two are often linked, that does not make them the same. Pepe is not mainstream, even on the Internet it's not mainstream.

There are fuck loads of GOOD non-moe, harem, kiddy shit or whatever meme buzzword you want to use to justify "Back in MY day" excuse, but shit that is good =! shit that is popular. A anime might become popular because it's good but it does not mean it's good because it's popular. Etc.

Will we ever get something like Legend of the Galactic Heroes, a 300+ episode where it isn't 10-20 episodes of 'Monster of the Week' fights before another 10-20 episodes of 'Monster of the Week' Fights ala One Piece or Naurto, again? Probably not.

Does that mean that anime is all moe shit that is only 'kiddy harem moe shit' as you fucks keep saying? Nope.

You're right only by proxy. That the internet makes wide access to thousands of peoples opinion easily obtainable. So if /a/ says "it's shit" then you won't watch it, even if you would really enjoy it if you did. That means stuff which is good, is ignored. Stuff that is popular is assumed to be good, whether it's good or not. Like, I dunno, Attack on Titan. It's not a good show, but it got popular because it's 'le mature' so people think it's good cause it's popular.

>>81132952
>subtlety
Wat?

>>81133035

You know stuff happens after she leaves the water and before her monologue, right?

>>81132062
its most likely both.

>>81133035
The film isn't about their relationship anon, and despite that fact we still get plenty of interaction and characterization between both characters.

>>81133058
>Anime in the 80's and 90's is no different to the shit you see today
Well for one it used to be a lot more violent while nowadays it's very censored and they can barely even show blood(and not much anyway)

>>81133077
It's deep bro, so deep it's at the bottom of the mariana trench.

>>81133058
>anime is barely popular in Japan

You have no idea what you're talking about. Just look at the highest-grossing films in Japan.

>>81131895
>before animu went mainstream
>>81132671
>This. Underrated post.

stuckman. stfu and gtfo.

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>>81133058
nah senpai

>>81133192
Don't forget the proliferation of moeshit.

>>>81133058
>I love this meme. Anime was widestream as fuck in '95. I was born in 1990 and I had seen fuck loads of things my then cause my sister was into anime from about 8 on wards. Anime in the 80's and 90's is no different to the shit you see today. The ONLY difference is that what YOU think is popular isn't as popular as it actually is because the internet is around.

Just because we're all autists that give a shit about anime, doesn't mean it was mainstream in the west. If anything, shit like GITS and Akira were pretty eye-opening for a lot of westerners (or more specifically, Americans). You can argue it was all about being a popularity contest rather than anything to do with quality, but that's well beside the point of why GITS is treated the way it is.

>>81133180
There's no relationships period. There's almost nothing driving the plot or film along.

>>81133477
I think you might just have autism and are incapable of understanding the relationships and what drives the plot.

>>81133477
>There's no relationships period
There clearly is though, and you'd have to be legitimately autistic to not see that.
>There's almost nothing driving the plot or film along
Really? You missed the entire motivation of the main character? Are you actually this retarded?

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Holy shit this thread is cancer.

>Batou is the closest to a heart this film has.

Maybe it is because the film is about Motoko's alienation from her own body and Batou is the only one that tries to tackle her on an interpersonal level? I mean, most of your criticism is just the ways the film portrays its themes. Not really orthodox if you compare it to films of the same fame, but you're not even trying to tackle it on an analytical level.

>>81130508
This.

It's not about the characters, it's about the concepts.

>>81133665
This.
This whole thread is fucking pointless.
>Someone explain this movie to me so I don't actually have to think at all. And when you do try to explain stuff I won't bother thinking about that either bc I already made my mind up about how I feel about this movie.
Why does this thread still exist?

>>81133058
anime was basically unknown in the west until the combination of Akira, VHS, and cheap genlocks for fansubbing in the late 80's.

>>81133665
Also, if OP wants to see a more "humane" take on the concepts, he should try SAC, which has way more focus on the sociological portrayal of mass media, corporativism and the state and has way more interest in how the characters interact. Check it out, you, maybe you will like it more. Definitely don't try Innocence though hahaha

>>81133058

Since we're playing the age card: I was born in 1984. I have a meaningful living memory of what the world was like before the internet. You don't.

Ghost in the Shell was a fairly-well-marketed novelty when it was ported to the states, but animu wasn't /fucking everywhere/. Oh, Tarantino might wear an Astro Boy tie or somesuch for his interview, and Cartoon Network ran Vampire Hunter D a time or two late at night, but these were isolated instances in America. Further, the mid-90s internet had not just yet made video piracy available for easy mass consumption. This meant that people actually bought VHS video tapes. Yes, tapes.

I'm sure you know things about the animu you're discussing, but I honestly don't care by this point.

>>81133665
>I mean, most of your criticism is just the ways the film portrays its themes.

Most of critism is aimed at the way the themes are portrayed, just shoved in your face with no subtlety and not organically integrated into the dialogue.

>>81133867
exactly. few animes are known for being subtle.

>inb4 weeb rants

>>81133831
OP should not watch SAC cos it sucks and is cheaply animated. It also suffers from anime exposition. Static heads while voices talk. The movie at least has beautiful animations going for it.

>>81133704
Honestly that's something that manga doesn't do that well, yes its a great medium with innovative backgrounds but the concepts at the core don't really get explored. It's though provoking perhaps but you never get the ins and outs of a philosophical debate like you would in a classic novel.

I feel like a lot of anime and manga authors are semi-autistic fedora tippers.

>>81134049
thats because they are.

>>81133867
its really direct to be sure but its normally integrated pretty well story/pacing wise, it normally doesnt seems as out of place as when hollywood trys to be 2deep4u
>>81134049
thats japanese culture in general desu

>>81133867
I was talking about the post, which is entirely about how there's no connection with the characters, which is one of the points of the film, which OP clearly didn't get. Subtetly in the concepts put into play in Motoko's self centered mind are another story completely.

>>81130449
0/10

>>81133965
I like the manga because it presents the concepts in a more positive light than any of the animations.

>>81134312
Boobies

>>81133058
holy shit this is old ass pasta

ITT: I know more about anime than you do

>>81134549
It is?

>>81130449
I agree. I actually found the Scarjo movie to have way better pacing

>>81134950
yeah. old like old /b/ old. the birthyear is different though.

>>81134974
She was weirdly stiff in the opening though.

>>81133221
not him but you have terrible, TERRIBLE reading comprehension. Ask an adult to explain it to you, you're obviously mentally deficient, your handler should be around somewhere, did you go on his laptop when he was in the bathroom?

>>81130449

You are wrong on pretty much everything and your opinion just shows your lack of movie culture. Before sending you home however i'll try to educate you.

From a narrative point of view GITS is a very japanese movie. It has very japanese characters, pacing and tone and a rhythm more akin to the concept of contemplation, which is to say of the pause.

Classic American cinema is all about action, not necessary as in action movie bus about characters doing stuff all the time to advance the plot.
Oshii movies are not about that, as Yasujiro Ozu movies his stories are more about a big decision, the kind that makes a character stop for a moment and really think about doing something while the world moves around them.

The movie starts in an action that profusely affects the world and throws the character into very important personal moments and they have to think things trough because they are in a position that once they act there is no coming back.

Far more significant than action after action after action... characters are already defined and they have to make a single important choice.

You won't see an excessive display of emotion not because they are robots but because they are Japanese and there is a sense of privacy and decorum. They don't go around making the shit they are going trough obvious, they deal with those things by themselves.

The plot may be obvious now that several america VR movies have dumbed the concept down and explained it several times but 20 years ago the point was in trying to understand what the character was going trough. You are supposed to not be able to relate, you are put on Batou's place and he struggles to understand her too.

I take it i don't need to explain you the visuals and music part right?

>>81135410
>I will explain why jap cinema is better

>>81133295
That wasn't my point. Anime not being mainstream in the west is irrelevant. Japan doesn't produce content for the West. It produces content for itself, which sadly includes Westaboos (usually French, English/British and Americans) but they don't go "Will this sell in Japan AND the West?". Yes, GiTS and Akira were 'whoa' because at that point in the time, cartoons (animated stuff) was largely assumed to be for kids. It still is. There is a reason shit like South Park was big news. Then you had shit like The God, The Devil and Bob come out, Family Guy tried, then all the classic 'adult cartoons' came out. But that's again, all irrelevant to my point, my point is good non-moe/harem/bad thing shit is made in Japan. Some of it is even 'mainstream'. Berserk would be a good example (though will be brushed off as 'old content updated so it doesn't count) so I'll go with, I dunno, Tokyo Ghoul or some shit. It's all there, it's all accessible. 4chan only sees the popular flavour of the month waifu pandering shit like that Dragon Maid thing.

>>81133762
I know. Not my point. My point is good shit exists nowadays in Japan which isn't moe/harem shit which people complain is why anime is shit now.

>>81133833
How is the age card relevant? I was on 56kb by the time I was 6, I even met a paedophile in Yahoo Chat. I would go and take a picture of my VHS collection, shock horror, a 27 year old knows about VHS, but you don't care. Again, my point is people are moaning 'Anime isn't like it used to be', when it is. Anime is no different today other than the waifu shit is noticeable on social media.

>>81134950
>>81134549
>>81135203
It isn't and you could tell my Googling it, pastas would get a hit on either a pasta wiki or in archives.

>>81135410
>I will make excuses for a shit film

>>81135410
You're a weeaboo aren't you?

You got a samurai sword?

I'm on wrong side of 30ies(this was not mentioned as anything positive, just indicator that I was there in 80 and 90 when what you consider internet was born,also real media(battle.angel.alita. subbed.rm-56mb) 3x3 anime over 56k were an thing.
One thing I must notice, we really didn't shat so much on everything (that's not to say there were no morons,far from it, but,in whole, you had to put some effort if you wanted to find/download/pay that fucking phone bill/ anime), so, it was much harder to obtain something obscure, but if you didn't like it ,you didn't said:" this is shit!!!only morons watch this!!!!!1),you would say:"this is not for me,but you check it,it may be your thing."
And,I watched old anime, had 15 years pause(life and all),had some free time and check new generation anime.

It is more or less the same, new is less dark(believe me), better drawings & more color, production looks better but to trained eye ,you can see animation software just made whole process cheaper and production teams who could only dream(15 years ago) of making 2h long movie now have an shot(for better or worse).
Only difference is, people opinions became more orthodox, its either shit or bestest evar,oh,my!! No middle ground.
7/10 is good, everything above 5/10 is good for someone (before, higher the score,just meant more people liked it, not that it was actually "higher quality"), best stuff for niche audience was from 6.5-7.9/10.
Anyway, if Gits scaryo is just copy with great visuals that respect original, I would be more than happy.
Whole A.I. shtick is much different than we thought in 90ies, distopia is much more Big Brother than sentient HW.

>>81135878
Stop trying to speak English Pajeet

dude cyberpunk man look at how cool that tank is whoa
dude sexy robot lady shooting people and doing acrobatics and showing her boobs whoa
dude what even is humanity anyway like seriously this is some deep stuff whoa
dude I'm seeing this in high school and it's literally the best thing ever whoa

>>81135911
Read twice, you'll be smarter.

>>81135971
Pretty much.

>>81130777
None of the movies and TV Series / Animes has anything to do with the manga.
The manga's original story has not yet been adapted.
Everything (2 anime movies, SAC, Arise, Live action) are just individual interpretations of the source material (the manga)

>>81130449
It's more of what it gave the world. The movie itself is good. But it's a spark not a fire but without we would have never had SAC which is the true fire. Or The Matrix. Or Lost.

Or any influence of Eastern philosophy in western world.

>>81136045
>The manga's original story has not yet been adapted.

Good, it's too "funny" for it's good.

>>81136067
>Or any influence of Eastern philosophy in western world.

I'm sorry what?

>>81135545
>Anime not being mainstream in the west is irrelevant.
Except it is in this topic, since it's very relevant to OP's question of why critic reviews (specifically on RT) are even referencing GITS as if it's a big deal.

>Japan doesn't produce content for the West.
Obvious shit is obvious.

>>81135692
>>81135819

/tv/ always so... eloquent and witty.

>>81135819
It's called a katana, anon

>>81136067
You got a "katana" as well?

>>81133662
Is cinema saved for the Neuromancer film that's in development hell?

>>81136632
Its actually called kyata-ona, n00b.

I speak fluent Nipponese, am american by birth but my soul is from Tokugawa famalam.
I currently reside in Hatizoo province, teaching budokaido sharp sword like strokes with my pen.

>>81137039
です野太刀,剣バカ

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>>81130449
>there's nothing interesting about it
There is.

>No relateable or sympathetic characters
There are.

>Then it has the has the most inane dialogue
For you.

>There are close to no real conversations in it either
>real conversations
Real conversations are 90% mundane and 10% inane.

I think you miss the point of it being an actual high concept sci-fi. It's focus is on abstract concepts that evoke contemplation.

I think Star Wars™ might be more your speed.

>>81137279
>being an actual high concept sci-fi

lol

>>81133965
Its not Manga but Watchmen does a pretty good job at that

>>81136412
Oh I know it was about the topic, but my post was replying to a guy who was "le old days were le so much le better :(((" which i get sick of seeing. The only good adaption for the West was All You Need Is Kill, though it wasn't a grimdark ending like the manga.

>>81135971
this

>>81137508
Thought it was a novel.

While I liked the first movie, I always prefered the TV series, Motoko in that series isn't completely a stoic character and you get to know more on the background of the characters.

>>81137279
>Real conversations are 90% mundane and 10% inane.

I don't think you understand what a real conversation is and how it can help push your "high concept" sci-fi.

I watched GITS for the first time a couple of days ago, been meaning to for years now.

The animation, design and setting are all great. The first, maybe 75% is great.

Then it devolves into some pretentious bullshit at the end.

>psst, hey, kid, merge with me so we can have virtual babbies
>why not just copy yourself?
>because copying yourself doesn't lead to diversification and a single virus can wipe you all out
>so merge with me and then copy us

))))))))))))))))))

I watched the dubbed version and the entire segment was almost unwatchable because of how cringeworthy it is, perhaps watching it subbed would have been better. The voice acting itself was fine, but the translation was horrendous (or perhaps the translation was good and it was just the writing that was awful)

6/10 at best.

>>81137632
Don't recommend that piece of shit.

>>81137601
I think it was a novel first, then a manga. Or it might have been a manga then novelised.

http://www4.mangafever.me/Category/All_You_Need_Is_Kill

That's the manga, anyway. Either way it was a good adaption for the West.

>>81131853
Pretty sure the Puppet Master's intention was to merge his mind with the Major's in the original movie, and he sort of succeeded at that.

>>81137747
And reproduce like a human (in terms of diversifying) but he never explains how.

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>>81137686
>I need realism to suspend my disbelief

kys

>>81137727
I'm guessing the manga/novel doesn't have that streak of japanese-ness that stops a lot of animu/mango being adapted?

>>81137819
>reproduce like a human
It's the evolution of memes, not genes. They talk about a figurative child, not a literal one.

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>>81137819
>spoonfeed me with exposition

wew

>>81137699
>Then it devolves into some pretentious bullshit at the end.

Like most anime

>>81137819
by merging two different identities into one new one

ffs, the whole movie is about identity [GHOST] and people still need to be spoonfed this entry level pop philosophy

>>81137898
Nah. The novel is pretty much the same as the film except (spoilers ahead, don't read if you don't want to spoil)

1. The guns on the suits are useless in the manga/novel. Only the shoulder rocket things are any good at killing Mimics. The military basically went "Combine fire on basic weapons, this is the best we can do, it was better than before we had these Mechs"

2. Protag, I forgot his name, doesn't bother trying to get help. He just uses the repeat to help himself. He isn't a reporter forced into combat either. He learns that a melee weapon is way better than the guns. Him and the Red Angel use that nearly always.

3. The 'I give up' repeat phase is him going to a beach and watching Japan get fucked, not a pub.

4. The girl, Red Angel, is stuck in the loop as well. She remembers everything that happens in a loop. So she knows he is stuck in it and remembers.

5. They don't go on a trip to kill a single thing. They use it to beat the enemy in that battl which includes the thing.

6. Near the end, their base gets attacked before they even get into the battle or something I can't quite remember.

7. She learns that even if they win the battle, the Mimics adapt and learn and will win anyway because even if they kill 'the brain', it still learns.

8. Turns out that she is a transmitter or some shit, so she has to die so winning the battle actually do anything. She attacks him and is killed.

9. Manga ends with him being the new hero the army looks up to and the battle continues elsewhere, he doesn't have the repeat any more.

Or some shit I forget it, long time ago. Basically no bad end and it's pretty faithful.

>>81137686
>I can't pay attention unless people are talking

I think this is as far as you can get with weeaboos OP.

>>81138335
>9. Manga ends with him being the new hero the army looks up to and the battle continues elsewhere, he doesn't have the repeat any more.

Probably made better sense to make the ending more upbeat.

>>81130508
>he thinks his man child cartoons are better than capeshit
Lol

>>81130449

Basically the animations and the city backdrops were what made it awesome.

>>81130763
>interesting philosophical quandaries
Lol read a fucking book neckbeard

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>>81138734
>you can only find interesting philosophical quandaries in books

>>81138809
You certainly can't find it in cartoons man baby

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>>81138849

>>81138880
>here's my pre selected list of arguments I dont like haha you're totally btfo!

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Is the english dub of the movie faithful or should I watch sub?

>>81138982
sub every time. the dub is horrendous even for anime standards.

>>81138982
Dub. The Streamline dub.

>>81138982
Definitely sub.

>>81139134
>>81139446
Ignore them, late 80s and 90s dubs were the best.

>>81138982
I prefer subs for the movies. Overall I like the Japanese voices better in SAC but the dub is almost as good and has Steve Blum.

>>81130633

babbys first fiction

you can appreciate more in media than just caring what happens to a fictional character

See:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXTnl1FVFBw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9v8FzQ2btg

Read:

https://twolongfourtwitlonger.wordpress.com/2015/05/27/ghost-in-the-shell-1995/

https://www.cnet.com/news/ghost-in-the-shell-scarlett-johansson-haunted-by-the-ghost-of-the-original/

Let me sumerise the thread for OP:
>lol 2deep4u

>>81133662
Where the fuck is Blade Runner?

>>81137699
Pretty much
The main problem is that the pretentious bullshit is essentially the main theme behind the movie. It's not like Akira, where you can ignore whatever the fuck they're babbling about with evolution or whatever because there's an emotional connection with the rioters tearing through the slums, and with Tetsuo enacting his childish power fantasy and Kaneda trying to bring him back down. Instead the movie just leads up to a 10 minute scene where a computer talks about needing to mindfuck some bitch so it can make kids that are different

>>81138982
It's fine
If you're gonna be a weeb you might as well go all the way and watch the sub but it honestly doesn't matter, the only part that'll suck is that you can't just drown out the pretentious dialogue as noise in English

>>81138957
>no argument

Disregarded

A straightforward story with questions a teenager would ask themselves after they graduated high school

Every "subtle" symbolism and "deep" metaphors or allegories are shoehorned and shoved down your throat. Only weebs and pretentious wannabes try their hardest to find anything deep and substantial in this drivel.

>>81132132
>intelligent discussion on masterpieces of film
That's a big request.

>>81130449
The fact that there are people in this world that still claim that GITS is only good because of it's animation is dissappointing and OP is more than likely a shill in disguise.

>>81130449
Teenagers wanted to feel edgy by watching a cartoon with edgy pseudo-philosophy, gore, and titties.

Now they look back at that nostalgic time

>>81141976
Bullshit. It's actually a complex story with questions a dying ascended PhD Wizard of metaphysics and Taoism would croak out as their deathbed testament.

The symbolism of GITS (hail it's name, knave) is subtler than Wittgenstein and deeper than the oceanic Challenger Deep, and the ideas slip down your throat like a $50,000 bottle of wine. The greatest minds who've ever lived, from Newton to Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, and Stanley Kubrick all would grovel in abject genuflection at the, substantial as Mt. Everest, throne of Ghost in the Shell (hail it's name, knave, and kiss the ring of the almighty Oshii).

Amen.

Some films are good because they generate ineffable experiences. Stuff you really can't describe without reference to the combo of picture and sound. I dont give a fuck about the philosophy of GITS. GITS isn't problematizing normal human emotions, it's sharing an alien experience that we don't have words to describe. Films like Solaris seem to also do this.

>>81142258
Shilling what? The mediocre adapatation of a pretentious anime movie?

>>81141550
Akira is an actual masterpiece.

>>81142695
It's not an adaptation and I highly ddoubt it's just mediocre. But yes this thread is designed with the purpose of making people believe GITS isn't a masterpiece so that they will be more willing to pay for this shit.

Its shit when compared to Johnny Mneumonic. Just sayin.

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It's amazing to see you cucks bitching about philosophizing in an Oshii movie. Bassett hounds and philosophy are a given with that madman, and the philosophy in GITS is literally baby tier compared to the prime slab of Oshii in Talking Head.

The brutal, uncompromising, dry Godardian exercise in cinematic meta-criticism that is Talking Head would cause your head to detonate. Talking Head will literally cause your body to scream out in pain, as the dryyyyyy self-reflexive monstrosity laughs at your pain and plunges the knife in further. The very name "Talking Head" will be a source of PTSD for the rest of your short, agonized life post viewing TH.

>>81142735
Though I am very worried about news of a live-action adaptation of Akria. I mean, GitS ripped off Blade runner so the live action version would have familiarity, Akira hasn't got western roots (that I know of).

>>81142740
It isn't a masterpiece.

>>81142853
Watch it again in a few years.

>>81142867
I watch it every now and then, it doesn't improve upon multiple viewings.

>>81142931
Then your watching it wrong

>>81137279

Now THIS, THIS screencap is a shit movie right here. holy shit

Has anyone else actually seen GiTS2?
I've never seen a soul talk about it.
I loved it as a wee lad.

>>81143016
Apparently it takes GitS1 navel-gazing to its extreme.

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>>81142778
Cover art for Talking Head is the most misleading, cruel, joke pulled on the otaku in history. Seconds of animation in the entire movie, as the cruel lesson in films studies rears to life instead.

>be an otaku thirst for anime
>toonz and shitz on cover
>play video
>found dead next day

>cue evil Oshii laugh
MWAHAHAHAHAH!

Yo, brothers how did it end? Like, my theater's projector little shat the bed like with not even 10-minutes left plus credits. Literally, she killed the spider tank and then the helicopters with the assassins came flying in and then Hideo crawled over by her and that was it for me.
DESU I was pretty pissed but it wasn't anybody's fault and I got two free passes for even stuff in 3d gonna go see LIFE and then maybe save em' for Valerian or Covenant so meh I guess,\

but I wanna know how it ended, she joined him on the net right? She get a lolibody? See her mother or anything? Any post credits or anything at all I really missed out on?

>>81143016

I remember watching a fansub of it and 90% of the lines were quoting some bullshit

might have been a trollsub idk

>>81143048
Kek.

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Fuck anime and FUCK weebos

>>81143083
No post credits, Hideo gets shot but the major is saved by section 9, and she goes to see her mother, before continue her life as a section 9 agent, cue credits.

Possible sequel, but let's see if it makes money. It's releasing in China right? They gonna make a decent box office there right?

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>>81143134
>saying that unironically on a forum for Tibetan goat skin drawings
HA HA, indeed...

>>81143169
yes it was bank rolled by 2 Chinese companies.

it might not sell well in NA but it will make GANG busters in asia.

>>81143169
>wanting to see more scarjo...
kinda dissapoint at your life anon.

>>81143398
The laughing puritan takes me back to my fark days

>>81130449
>No relateable or sympathetic characters
The Major's plight is something every human being on Earth has ever felt, and will continue to feel. God I fucking hate people.

>>81131895

Ghost in the Shell was about 30 years too late to be considered some kind of radical demonstration that you could actually make cartoons for adults. By that point mature cartoons whether serious or silly were already established as a thing in both America and Japan. GitS was a groundbreaking movie at the time and became a pillar of cyberpunk, but an exploration into the possibility of adult cartoons was not one of the reasons why.

>>81130449
>major is not relatable or sympathetic
zen, purpose diving, existentialism aren't relatable - pleb; the machivellian constructs of the bureaucrats
>animation isn't interesting
yeah the falling shots, the chase choreography and in-betweening, the slow panning shots of the town's design, the fight in the columns

>nothing interesting about existentialism in the age of digital consciousness/transhumanity
fucking off yourself brainlet