This movie was pure christkino.

>babbies first slow movie

>>81052047
If by 'christkino' you mean badly written and badly acted movie by a director who should know better, you are certainly right.

>>81052122
was it badly written? i'm waiting for cinemasins to tell me that.

>>81052181
>character mentions God
>"haha silly white man, god doesn't real"
>"Ding!"

>>81052181
First, could you demonstrate how Silence is a christian movie?

Having christians in a movie doesn't make a movie christian, just like having a woman in a movie doesn't make a movie a woman movie.

Or a movie where potato is eaten a potato movie.

For a movie to represent any ideology it has to take a stance. I didn't feel like Silence leaned in any direction.

>>81052181
One of the worst and most ridiculous Hollywood bastardization periodic pieces ive seen. From cringeworthy meme accents to fucking black-and-white presentation of adversarial christian and buddhist "brotherhoods" while ignoring extremely strong split of the christian church and all the other religious implications at the time... i mean i could go on and on, the movies was Scorseses new low and has as much substance to it as your average capeshit.

Oh and Andrew Garfield is the shittiest actor currently inhabiting planet earth.

>>81052047
Call it what you want, doesn't change the fact that it was skull-fuckingly boring

>>81052559
That's a lot of negative wording. Are you feeling OK?

Does a movie have to be historically accurate to be good? I admit it would be better with more accuracy.

>>81052370
A movie about some Jesuits made in the Jesuit theater of holy Wood.
>It's not Christian
I tried it, into the trash it went after about 1 hour. Jesuits are a disgusting cult of Machiavellian Inquisitors constantly whitewashing themselves.

>>81052593
Back to the capeshit thread, friend.

Big boys are talking.

>>81052630
Sounds like you have trouble relating to people who do not share your world view. That's all I can take from your post.

>>81052559
>Oh and Andrew Garfield is the shittiest actor currently inhabiting planet earth.

Put those hands up mate. He did fucking amazing in The Social Network.

>>81052047
How long before that guy shills his review again?

I enjoyed it

>>81052604
Nope, the movie has to be good to be good. I was not immersed to 17th century for a split second during that 2,5h snoozefest. If you want to watch a great believable and very well made periodic movie with religious themes, i recommend watching The Name of the Rose. (even though it is ultimately a murder mystery). It does right everything that Silence fucks up horribly.

>>81052840
Thanks for the sensible post, I'll download the movie.

>>81052869
Also I'd like to add that I'm not defending Silence to the grave. I just thought it was a good movie about the human condition. The respective religions and ideologies felt like a backdrop to human suffering, forgiveness and understanding.

>>81052673
Imagine if it was a movie about radical muslim priests coming to america and facing hardship and banishment.
it's the most bigoted movie I saw in a while

>>81053027
>Imagine if it was a movie about radical muslim priests coming to america and facing hardship and banishment.
it would be a better movie that's for sure.

>>81053027
The priests got BTFO in the end. It's not like the movie was a christian victory march.

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Watch best bishop's analysis.

>>81053064
but would you feel sympathetic to their cause?

>>81053131
Nice pic. Do you have words of your own?

One of the worst pieces of shits I have seen and I have seen a lot of shit in 2016.

>>81053064
the cross in dude's hands as he was buried indicated the christans kept their faith

>>81053027
>Imagine if it was a movie about radical muslim priests coming to america and facing hardship and banishment.

Pretty dumb comparison

>>81053141
Their cause is irrelevant. Humans behave like humans do.
It was a struggle for influence in a foreign country and there's a lot of that going on.

>>81052559
/amen.

the novel is a lot better but who does that even surprise anymore lol

>>81052559
>fucking black-and-white presentation of adversarial christian and buddhist "brotherhoods"

You must not be a Christian then. A friend of mine nearly had an existential crisis thinking about what he would do in their shoes.

>>81052047
they made it look pretty bad, but I wonder what horrors those priests were exposed to for them to recant.

>>81052559
the accents were atrocious.

>>81053274
beter he had gone wth no accents at all. which movie did that btw?

>>81053267
The truth is a horror to some. If your mind is a dark room you'll be scared of it all your life.

I've been here for like 8 years and I don't think I've ever seen anyone make an argument that wasn't really just facile nitpicking.

>all these mad weebs

>>81053267
Stuff that makes ISIS' torture look like childplay.

Also, Liam Neeson's character was a real person. Supposedly he converted back to Christianity at one point and was tortured and killed for it.

>>81053179
why do you say that? okay maybe not the US, cause here you have a 10x better freedom of religion, but Euopre for instance then. (even in a contemporary setting, let alone in the same period as the silence takes place)
>>81053203
so you are saying that if it were a movie about muslim preachers preaching their word of god in a foreign country you would have no problem with it, it wouldn't bother you and you could enjoy watching the human struggle and the strength of faith in men.

>>81053320
>movie where Japan BTFO's filthy gaijin

You are making some implicating implications, anon.

>>81053178
Why does his Christianity even matter when the priest turned into a docile cuck?

Faith without works doesn't exist.

>>81053335
Yes, I consider muslims human. Just like I consider capeshitters, cunnyfags, BLACKED-fags human. There is a motivation behind everything and we share that motivation.

>>81053381
Idolotrist.

>>81053458
well I applaud you friend for being a normal good person I guess.
but you have to agree that given today's background that movie would be seen as an ISIS recruitment video by many people, and not just an honest piece of work.

>WAAAAH THESE EVIL PRIESTS TRYING TO SPREAD THE GOSPEL AS THEIR RELIGION SAYS
>TOTALLY THE SAME AS MUSLIMS CONQUEST

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>>81053131

>>81052047
Its not perfect but it was way better than Mel's recent Christian circlejerk.

The academy should have given it some kudos just because we all need a reminder that American faith based cinema does not have to be pureflix breed of pure shit.

>>81053555
catholic church of the time used religious conversion as a means of political subversion and defacto conquest.

japs weren't having that

>>81053555
what's the difference then?

>>81053691
that doesn't mean the priests knew that, and didn't have inner struggles.

loved the movie btw.

>>81053638
If you took it as pro-christian you misunderstood the movie.

>>81053745
It showed non-Christian Japanes as caricature like characters.

if it was not pro "Christian faith must go on no matter what" then the film didn't even have any narrative and MS failed

>>81053732
so their inner struggles were born of ignorance. an ignorance so profound and complete it silenced all opposition.

>>81053806
well yeah.

>>81053788
well yea, but there was still enough of the "everyone was fucking wrong" narrative in place for that to come through.

The daiymo's dilemma scene alone is sufficient illustration of that narrative.

>>81053732
kek, how the fuck did they not know? That's a horrible reason. Terrorist also think they're doing the right thing and going to heaven, doesn't justify them.

>>81053788
The Japanese christians were poor farmers. Applying modern day standards of christdom seems preposterous.

>>81053874
which is why it didn't get any real nods from anyone.

welcome to the end of the thought process.

>>81053691
>dude literally the same as forced conversion and murder!!!

>>81052047
>weitto piggu wants us to worship some cuck's wife's son, kekekekek

>>81053745
spotted the pleb that actually paid to see God's Not Dead

>>81053880
Hes talking more of the inquisitor and the translator. Who were quite caricaturist.

>>81053893
who, the movie or the terrorists?
I'm confused...

>>81053932
All I got extracted from the Inquisitor he wanted the best for his country. Ruthless methods but it was about preserving a culture.

>>81053918
terrorists leaders surround themselves with children to dissuade drone strikes.

>>81053932
Fucking Inquisitor was out of Donald Duck comic I swar I laughed when he started doing his fucking crab walk and sinister laugh

>>81053967
He's a comedian in real life.

>>81053961
so that makes the strikes somehow less horrible and the ones doing them less guilty?

>>81054003
All faithful follow authority. If the authority is fucked then all the followers are fucked.

I think it attempted to send the message that Christianity as a whole is better suited to fit the needs of the common man better than the priest class or the nobility. Andrew Garfield's character constantly questions how these people can be so fervently in favor of Christianity when he doesn't realize that the promise of an afterlife is all these people really have. They live in a small village and work to pay taxes to their lords and that's about it. The fault in the priests lie in their ability to give up their pride because they also believe that means giving up their faith. Liam Neeson's character (Father Ferreira I think?) mentions this near the end of the movie when they have a bunch of Christians tied upside down and bleeding out.

Furthermore, the death of Adam Driver's character shows that that kind of pride leads to two possible outcomes: one is death, as he experienced, and the other is eventually sacrificing your pride for the good of others, as Andrew Garfield's character did. Andrew Garfield eventually realizes that keeping his pride doesn't do him or his fellow Christians any favors, all it does is add greater punishment. The inquisitor says as much: "The price for your glory is their suffering!"

However, the character Kichijiro exists to be an antithesis to this. He's a coward through and through, and he sold Andrew Garfield's character along with many others down the river plenty of times. However, he's not prideful , even a little bit, and he asks for confession (and is granted it) every time. He has faith without pride, and he's willing to sacrifice that pride so he can live, but he doesn't have to sacrifice his faith to do so. This is shown even at the end of the film when he's taken away, he'll likely be punished for keeping a Christian token, but he's lived keeping his faith for so long while Andrew Garfield's character felt he had to sacrifice it. He realizes this as he dies and keeps the cross in his hand, you can have faith without pride.

>>81053959
Even more, it was really just his job, one of many. He had no real emotional investment for or against the Christians. They were simply a correctly identified subversive force.

>>81054045
>All faithful follow authority.
that's not really true but whatever, especially in the case of islamic dogma. All people are sequel, there are no saint's or popes, and you don't need a priest in order to repent for your sins. I know that today's radical islam is far from that, but that's what the actual book teaches.

>>81054003
>murdering innocent children of x is less horrible than murdering innocent children of y
Or I'm attempting to describe conflicts in which no one is in the right.

>>81054136
Obviously anyone can cook up toxic ideas, but in the case of terrorist attacks I highly doubt no outside influence was involved.

>>81052047
>DUDE I BELIEVE IN GOD
>OW SHIT THAT HURTS i DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD ANYMORE
>LMAO JK I SECRETLY DO
it stinks

>>81052630
Why do you like Jews so much? They're vermin.

>>81054277
Are fear and insecurity foreign concepts to you?

>>81054217
but the question is who is right? Did those sand people really pose that big of a threat that we had to to invade them and destroy them for decades? Or was it all just about oil and world dominance?

>>81054335
>conflicts in which no one is in the right

>WHO WAS RITE THO??

...

>>81054365
but "no one is right" just isn't true dude, someone had to stir up the shit first.
and we all know who did it in this case.

>>81054411
>someone always has to be right

...

>>81054058
Very nice read but I think it's possible the monks/wife put the cross in his dead hands.

>>81052047
Kino are deep movies that manage to portray relavitely deep matters that sometimes come close to being boring but never really do.

Silence was boring as fuck for the most part and pretentious as fuck.

>>81054430
no I didn't say that man. But I guess it's easy to say "it was nobodies fault" when your house isn't the one that's being bombed and you have no notion of what normal life is.

>>81054545
>no one is right
>nobodies fault

these are not the same thing

>>81054545
We've been killing each other forever. One perspective doesn't make right.

By far the best film of 2016. I wonder why it didn't get any nominations...

>>81054689
heavily compromised a better narrative and tried to force a pro-christian one.

>>81052122
Wtf I love atheism, Judaism or Islam now.

>>81054689
Because it was boring as fuck maybe? The premise was promising but Scorsese just went over his head.

>>81054720
Just because you're a fedora tipper doesn't mean the narrative was bad. Could you please explain how the narrative was bad?

>>81054689
It did get a nomination for cinematography actually. Nothing else sadly

>>81054805
Could you explain why it was worth more than dog shit

>>81054805
attempting to force a pro-christian narrative on the kirishitan debacle is profoundly idiotic.

As is assuming anyone who didn't like the movie wears le maymay hat.

>>81054772
Actually I was implying the obvious. It wasn't a serious question. We all know that Jews and white liberals hate Christianity with the passion of a thousand burning suns.

>>81054824
>Nothing else sadly

It really didn't deserve anything else

>>81054847
How was it "forcing a Christian narrative"?

>>81054844
This thread is worth more than dogshit. By proxy the movie was worth more than dogshit. And by dogshit I mean the average /tv/ thread.

Do you voluntarily reply to dogshit threads?

Your turn.

I juts didn't like it because it was cinematically a low effort turd.

Even Wolf of Wall Street had more quality to the craft

>>81054844
No, the burden of proof is on the original claimant.

>>81054901
Who are you quoting.

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>>81052559
>One of the worst and most ridiculous Hollywood bastardization periodic pieces ive seen. From cringeworthy meme accents to fucking black-and-white presentation of adversarial christian and buddhist "brotherhoods"
The Jesuits were closer to Confucianism than Buddhism, surely you're familiar with the conflict between those two schools of thought?

>>81055186
I only know /pol/ memes about Jesuits being bad

>>81054957
The person that I quoted

>>81055220
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

>>81055267
what did he mean by this?

>>81054892
Ok anon.

Dad's a massive christfag and already hates the japanese (they hurt my grandpappy).

This movie had the effect of making him more devout and more racist.

>>81055363
Is that a movie problem or audience problem?

>>81055376
The movie's fault. They can influence completely normal people to do evil shit. It's why we ban many.

>>81055421
I hope to fucking god your joking mate.

>>81055363
Presumably he must have had some idea that Japan wasn't Christian though right? It doesn't even take place in this century...

>>81055487
Why is it that we are totally fine with saying a work of art can influence someone to do good, but it's completely impossible for one to make someone do evil? It's a ridiculous double standard that makes no sense.

>>81055529
Let's just say he didn't need more reason to hate the japanese and this movie provided plenty.

>>81055554
>Why is it that we are totally fine with saying a work of art can influence someone to do good, but it's completely impossible for one to make someone do evil?

I don't believe this though. A work of art may inspire someone to do good or bad, but I fully believe that inspiration will only take place if they already have preconceptions on the ideas the work of art is discussing. It's is not the movie's fault that guy's dad became more religious and racist. He was already religious and racist and those biases influenced his take on the movie.

>>81055267
It's true tho, I don't know anything else about jesuits

>>81055666
nice try satan

also check em

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>>81055220
"Bad" like in a southern baptist way, or in an imperialistic way, or in a Michael Jackson music video way?

>>81055666
>inspiration will only take place if they already have preconceptions on the ideas the work of art is discussing.


See I don't believe that. I believe that the movie itself can be influence, in somebody with no preconceptions or conceived notions about anything before watching the movie, or play, or reading that book or listening to that particular piece of music. Art is powerful and by itself can load ideas into somebody and transform them.

>>81055680
The point was people with limited knowledge are more prone to expressing that knowledge.

And that is making everything worse for everybody. Not just /tv/, 4chan or the internet.

Just try to read people irl and see what kind of rock their beliefs are built on.

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What if they preferred That Other Denomination?

>>81055867
>protestacucks

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>81055243
there is a world of difference between a "Christian narrative" and a "pro-Christian narrative.

No one has mentioned a "Christian narrative" but the thread so far has gone into respectable detail on how the movie pushes a pro-Christian narrative.

>be in new area on phone
>get cp ban message

wew lad

>>81055867
Do they really expect me to believe that mormons are poor?

>>81055765
> I believe that the movie itself can be influence, in somebody with no preconceptions or conceived notions about anything before watching the movie, or play, or reading that book or listening to that particular piece of music

I don't really disagree with this and my statement came off far less nuanced than I feel about it. I certainly think that art can evoke thoughts and feelings not had by someone yet. What I'm trying to get across isn't that art will not cause people to think differently. It's that the only reason that work of art gave them those thoughts or feelings is because they were predisposed to it. Of course, I can't prove this and it's pure conjecture but that is how I see it. I simply do not think any art will turn anyone to an ideology they were not already predisposed to.

>>81055867
Is there a graph for total wealth distribution?
Being at the top isn't necessarily healthy if you give a single fuck about your fellow man. Especially a fellow man of faith.

Anyway, interesting interesting.

can anyone tell me why is andrew garfield portraying christian men when he's a jew? he did it in hacksaw ridge too.

>>81056256
Do you believe a jew is incapable of understanding Christian principle?

Wasn't Christianity about telling everyone the good news.

>>81056256
>can anyone tell me why is andrew garfield portraying christian men when he's a jew?

Do you know who christians worship?

>>81056256
Jesus was a jew.

>>81055765
If a movie tries to convince an audience of ideas that are completely alien/absurd, the movie just comes off as alien/absurd. You can't teach people to read before they know what letters are. Every idea requires a foundation before it can take hold in a human mind. Sure, a movie could attempt to lay a completely new foundation and build ideas off that, but unless that foundation is compatible with a person's current biases, it just comes off as absurd.

Kinda like jack chick trying to convince anyone that d&d teaches kids satanism

>>81056256
Could he be an actor?

>>81054689
jews

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https://youtu.be/WM2NT_xnKqw

>>81056474
Preposterous. Thor plays himself in those movies. Hulk is clearly cgi tho

>>81052047
It really was great, I had put off watching it because I thought Scorsese had fizzled out completely, but glad I was wrong.

It made me respect Japan even more, very impressive to see an actual successful resistance to Christianity the most subversive virus known to man.

>>81056461
I like to think that curiosity is enough foundation to consider and compare any idea instead of refusing it.

>>81053093
Shut up. All he did was complain that the main character denied Christ.

>>81056590
You

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>>81054505
>Kino are deep movies that manage to portray relavitely deep matters that sometimes come close to being boring but never really do.

>He fell for the kino meme

>>81056063
> I have no argument so I have to resort to reddit tier arguments over semantics
A tip o the fedora to you to, sir.

>>81056942
I've already made arguments in this thread as to how silence forces a pro-Christian narrative onto a situation in which no one was right. I told you to read the thread. You refused to do so or address any actual arguments. Good day sir.

>>81056683
If that were true, it'd be a simple matter to convince /pol/ that negros are white.

>>81057210
Read the thread. Only saw fedora tipping plebbit sentiments. Not an argument.

>>81057210
>a situation in which no one was right

That doesn't matter. The japanese were wrong.

>>81052290
Oh jesus i almost physically cringed

>>81057339
As was the Catholic Church for attempting to subvert a sovereign nation via religious conversion.

>>81057339
But don't you get it. Movies are only good when white christians are the villain. If not, then it's s poorly made movie that is "forcing a Christian narrative".

>>81057278
Curiosity implies trying to figure shit out via observation. You can't really be curious about something without using human senses to determine the natural way of things.

How does that fit into your impeccable parable?

>>81057331
I said, "Good day, sir!"

>>81057401
How was the Catholic Church attempting to "force thier way of life" on the Japanese? Is proselytizing or immigrating considered "force"? So I'm assuming you're in favor of Trump's Muslim ban, correct?

So is the DVD rip out already I want to re-watch it.

It was all right for Christkino. I don't understand why people would hate on this movie, I mean you already know what you're getting yourself into.

>>81057409
Did you read the thread? If not get the fuck out.

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>>81057452
Aw, c'mon... what else do you want to say?

>>81057587
I read enough. Your argument is just hypocritical, contradictory, and just plain fedora-y.
>muh Christian colonialist imperialist encroaching on the native Japanese
>Muslims welcome
Fuck off back to plebbit

>>81057683
Honestly I believe this thread is about done.
It has no need for your uninformed plebeian opinion.

Had a good run.

>>81057534
The Catholic Church literally used religious conversion of native populations to gain influence in, ultimately resulting in control over non-Christian nations up to the 18th century.

Stop trying to interpret historical events by modern western values.

>>81055363
Well, your dad is a massive fag and a retard then.

>>81057401
>Papal State was literally the only european country to never try to colonize other countries
>hurr durr they were trying to subvert Japan

this is as dumb as american fearing catholic immigrants because "they are papists infiltrators!!"

>>81057774
Not really he fucked at least 5 women in his life.

>>81052840
>The Name of the Rose
Written by a literal Marxist. Gee, I wonder what (((he))) has to say about Christianity.

>>81057728
You mean conspiracy theories with no actual historical evidence

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True Christian kino

>>81052840
>The Name of the Rose.
Bias garbage

>>81057815
Because the papal state didn't need to colonize. It used religious conversion to gain control and resources.

Why are you trying to argue with historical fact?

>>81057728
What does that have to do with Japan or this movie in particular? Are you assuming that I'm not aware of the history of my own religion, and that you know more than me?

Also, answer my Muslim question. You must be fully against the mass migration and non-assimilation of Muslims into Europe and America. Prove you're not a complete hypocrite, self-hating, fedora cuck.

>>81057954
>calls it "True Christian kino"
>It's actually agnosti-kino

>>81057991
>it used religious conversion
What does this even mean? Did they force them to be catholic with threat of violence? Did they perform charity to gain the locals respect? Be a little more specific please.

>>81052047
First half is too long

This thread:
>haha i know period pieces and christians literally the 10 plague haha jap did no wrong!

>>81058770
It's interesting to note that during the Sengoku Period, the most powerful warlord at the time, based Oda Nobunaga, was in full support of the Christians (and European Culture in general). He knew their strategic and trade applications. If he would have lived to become the Shogun, Japan would fast-forward 200 years technologically because of flourishing nationwide trade.

His successor's successor was a hack though and literally went "white pig, go home" (except for one 'exit' island). There's a reason Japan has a long-standing reputation of being xenophobic.

But considering Japan's one of the best nations right now I'd say it all worked out fine.

>>81053248
>you must not be Christian
>having an existential crisis about whether or not to step on a wooden plank with a shitty image of Christ carved on it
>image
>idolatry
>Rodriguez kept seeing himself as Christ during his persecution
>Christ would have apostatized in a second if it meant saving the lives of other Christians
>Rodriguez sees God/Christ in the image of a 16th century painter
>that voice of God at the end telling him to step on the image, that it's ok, to just do it

what's their to have an existential crisis about? I'm a fucking Christfag, but the Jesuits presented in this flick can't even see the irony in their invasion of other cultures while they talk about their own persecutions.

>>81058064
It means the church cultivated resources and influence via sending volunteers to foreign lands to recruit local volunteers to build churches that would send resources back to the central church?

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True Christkino here.

>>81059409
well, they were catholics. Catholics are idolotrists.

Of course that line about garfield/rodriguez being concerned about the kirishitans revering the idols more than what they meant was pretty moronic.

It was good, only edgy atheists and Jews hate it

>>81057430
so what you're saying is in order for someone to be convinced by a movie, they'd have to be open to that conclusion in the first place?

>>81060959
nice

>>81059191
>But considering Japan's one of the best nations right now

Literally lowest birthrate in the world. Literally most indebted nation in the world (by % of GDP) They're fucking dead in a few generations, and that debt should have caught up with them if economy had any sense, but it doesn't.

>>81053167
That's because you're a jew.

>>81061072
There is no "a conclusion" outside of religious dogma. You need to be open to all conclusion because why the fuck not?

Whether something is true or not does not hinge on whether you believe in it or not.

Nothing in existence can poof in or out of existence by pure power of "believing"

There is no believing. Things are or they are not.

>>81062222
>There is no "a conclusion" outside of religious dogma

You sound like you're currently taking and failing philisophy 101.

>>81062473
Do you have a thought process or are you here to went your frustration with ad hominems?

>>81052047
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCKwtUXyU1k&t=2s
christFAGkino
aka 6/10

>>81062517
people who retreat to barely understood ontology in response to out-of-context phrases are pretty frustrating.

>>81062711
I'm not frustrated and neither should you be.
We are merely vessels for ideas. Getting "frustrated" over ideas clashing like they were a inseparable from our self is madness. Considering every criticism to "your" idea an attack on your person is madness.

Getting mad is madness.

>>81060984
Both Catholics and Orthodox use images, statues etc. It's only the protestant that are too cool for it.

This movie was pure heresy.

See E. Michael Jones review.

>>81062902
your days of sounding like you're taking and failing a basic philosophy course are definitely coming to a middle.

>>81063184
>pure heresy.
Ok so it was heresy. So what, then what, what are you going to do about it? Is someone going to hell? Or will your deity forgive him? Will we ever know?

>>81063240
Why aren't you educating me instead of throwing ad hominems. I'm open. My eyes and ears are yours.

Could it be that you're a sad little cunt with no critical thinking skills? This is pure conjecture of course. I have no idea what type of person is behind your keyboard.

>>81063304
Considering you just jumped into a debate about easy/difficult it is to educate people, and started spouting purest abstract idiocy, and don't seem able to stop... I guess you've proven my point?

>>81063411
I was replying to a post replying to my own post. Took a break from 4channing to do some shit.

Are you actually disparaging my own chain of posts?

>>81063411
And incase you're wondering, this was my first post in the chain: >>81057278

Think about life, my man.

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>>81053306
chris costner's robin hood

>>81063866
ah i remembered, it was amadeus

>>81063923
nice.

portuguese accents would've been okay in silence if they weren't so poorly executed. when you think about it there really was no reason to force it, since the characters' foreign-ness was already contrasted by being in japan and being surrounded apanese people

>>81064255
i agree. it was off-putting - the very reason roman polansky didn't bother with accents in amadeus, since they wouldn't be speaking german anyway.

>>81060959
This movie is Christkino as fuck. Pseuds will think that it's anti-Christian though.

>>81064577
Why does it matter if it's pro-Christian, anti-Christian or something in between?

Does your brittle little worldview require a 24/7 hugbox?

>>81056706

Did he really?

>>81053544
>well I applaud you friend for being a normal good person I guess
Hey man you got the wrong floor, reddit is two floors down.

>>81064652
Because I think it'll impact the discussions of people who don't get it, projection lord. It ends with Christianity failing in a practical sense but remaining unshaken a theoretical sense.

>>81053921
Technically speaking, the guy on charge was about to convert to Christianity until he find out you can only have one wife.

>>81064790
He said some other stuff too about the movie, but the most of his video on the movie was him talking about how it was silly to act like the main character was still a good Christian.

>>81063718
>claiming someone else's post as your own

...

>>81064825
I didn't project anything. I just asked a question. No eggs were put in any basket.

Instead of throwing baseless accusations, shouldn't you be loving your fellow man, even the sinner, like the most basic tenet of your faith tells you to do?

hey, remember when someone searched for "kino" on twitter and found only mexicans used it?

>>81065097
It was a misquote. I'm the guy replying to the retard. Actually I was the only person replying to that pathetic skeleton of a post.

>>81065196
so >>81063411 ?

>>81053932
>>81053959
>, he is one of the most prominent gay or homosexual figures in early-modern Japanese history
>One of the Company's employees, Olof Eriksson Willman, a Swede, recorded that Masashige tried to sleep with him

that explains his campness

>>81065196
And he's replying to my post by the way. Really this shit is needlessly complicated.

If we had usernames I could take a better chokehold with logic and squeeze until their barely sentient minds go blank.

>>81058064
>Did they force them to be catholic with threat of violence?
Uh, yea, actually. The early jesuits in japan had lords convert their subjects to Christianity to open trade relations.

>>81065363
attacking credibility rather than arguments is the surest sign of a weak mind.

>>81065363
so lets break it down. Someone argued that films can convince people of completely new ideas. Others asserted that people can only be convinced of ideas if they're predisposed to agree with. Then you started talking about a concept of curiosity conflated with open-mindedness and gullibility and only got further abstract as you continued along that faulty line of reasoning.

And now we're just yelling "samefag" and "i wish this was reddit" at eachother.

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Call out to the unvierse and the unvierse answers. You may not like the answer but the universe answers.

Call out to God and all you hear is Silence.

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I don't understand why people say the Jesuits are the bad guys. The Japanese persecute their own people, forcing everyone to live in fear of death. The government of Japan has the policy of torturing and murdering their own countrymen over foreign priests so that it will break their spirits. They cannot combat Christianity except through horrible violence, while the Christians act peaceful and even comply with their own demise.

How are the Christians in the wrong here?

>>81066360
Why does a movie need bad guys?

>>81066069

But God is the universe

>>81052047
the Last Temptation of Christ is the only real Christkino

>>81066418
For it to make any sense. Silence is a movie about being strong when surrounded by evil with no allies, and to what extent one can be forgiven.

>>81066424
The scientific method (human curiosity) is our cry for the universe.

Fear and insecurity is our cry for God.

It all boils down to whether you want a steady ride of false security or a bumpy ride of doubt.

>>81066486
What makes you consider the opposition "evil"?
Maybe the japs had motivations separate from being anti-Christian or pro-Christian? The Christians could've been representatives of any ideology and the course of action would've been the same.

The world doesn't necessarily have to revolve around the Christian God.

>>81066918
What makes them evil is their methodology. If they debated Christianity in a battle of theology and won, good. If they came to some peaceful agreement with the Catholic Church and European powers, fine. If they did anything other than torture, imprison, murder, and starve, sure. But because of the wickedness of their actions, they become evil.

I don't think you could really say that the means justified the ends in this situation, especially since they never alluded to trying peaceful methods of keeping out Christians, only ever remarking on how they refined their cruelty from the past

I'm not saying the Jesuits had rights to the religion of their country, but if poor fishing villagers willing convert, I don't see why they need to be crucified and drowned

>>81067070
How do you battle theology? How do you battle something that has been chiseled onto holy tablets?

There is no battle, only pride.

>>81067134
yeah, pride's a big theme throughout the movie. At what point does a preacher represent himself, or his God. I think that was Garfield's main fault, is he put too much of his ego into his profession. If he just remembered that he was the representative of Christ and not the representative of himself, I think he could have won out in the end

You battle theologies by publicly debating each side, and which ever side resonates with someone, then they'll probably convert. The Japs even have the homefield advantage. Let the people of Japan individually decide whose faith they want to follow, not have it mandated by the government. If they like Buddhism/Shinto better, then they don't convert. No harm no foul. Spread the debate around, so most people know about it. That way, even if missionaries go around, whatever shitty village might already have some frame of reference to what both sides are all about, and which one they prefer

>>81067328
Is the average pedestrian well-versed enough to decide on matters of the universe?

Decisions based on emotion have no basis. Just because something feels comforting does make it legit.

The priests can sell the prettiest lies.

>>81067484
Hey man, that was thrown together in a few seconds by some asshole online. I'm sure you could parse out a better system. Either way, my point is that there was never an attempt to be fair. On either sides, I suppose.

Decisions made on emotions are decisions none the less

>>81052047
I am so glad this movie is getting recognized on this board.
It is the greatest faith based movie I've ever seen and I can't believe that Scorsese can still direct at the top of his game.

>>81067616
Does a "decision" have enough intrinsic value to justify faith?

>>81054058
Damn you're smart, did you actually come up with all of that yourself or did you watch/read anything about the film to come to this thesis?

Obviously very comfy read, 10/10.
Wish more people like you visited /tv/.

The end should have been more subtle

>>81067070
the japs weren't the only people to persecute early christian converts. A persecution that only stopped once a higher official is converted and that official starts sucking church cock.

Furthermore the kirishitans came into existence via forced conversions, as local lords would convert their subjects in order to open trade for advanced weapons (the arquebus). As during this period the nation of japan was divided among a number of warring feudal lords. So the church was literally trading weapons for forced conversions in hopes a christian faction would come to dominate japan and spend the rest of time supporting the church.

The problem is the warring lords period ended and the dominant fashion was only ever playing lipservice for weapons. Said government identified the church as a subversive entity and sought to remove that potential for instability from their nation.

So the actual situation was the church sending people to convert subjects of sovereign nations and then using those citizens to gain influence/control over said nations, effectively conquering nations without ever engaging in warfare. Forcing said nations to choose between a loss of identity and autonomy or murdering their own people.

>>81067692
That's not really what I'm talking about, my man. My point is that the Japanese were in no way justified to do what they did

>>81067806
Its not like the catholic church had not engaged in identical behavior.

>>81067806
No, it all comes around.

If you can't justify faith then you can't justify priests going to Japan. If you can't justify priests going to Japan then they're open to any kind of spanking the Japanese choose.

Demand nothing from decision-making process and you can't demand anything from faith.

The faithful cannot demand anything because all they will hear is Silence.

>>81067889
Not in the movie, they didn't

>>81052047
The original was better

>>81067928
The movie is based upon historical accounts. The Japanese response to the church was because they knew the church's history. So history is definitely relevant.

>>81067928
Why are you fixated on what happens on camera?

After dunking some western fools the Inquisitor probably went home to kiss his grand daughter on the cheek. To label someone evil you rob him of all humanity.

>>81066571

>>81054867
this lol

>>81068772
Only in a religious mind all motivations are based emotional bullshit like "hate" or "passion".

Pointing out glaring holes in logic is this 1000 celsius hot knife pointed at their faith. The opposition has to either shut up and fuck off or get subjugated.

>>81064825
Just like Communism.

>>81052559
>Andrew Garfield is the shittiest actor currently inhabiting planet earth.
charlie hunnam is the worst desu.

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>>81068922
I was wondering whether they represented the Jesuits in a more 'charismatic' fashion than they would have been in reality. The religious service in the film almost seems patterned on evangelicalism. Of course in a film your actors need to have charisma but they almost come out of their 'scholarly bubble' a little too quickly.

>>81067718

Just watched the movie a few days ago, been thinking about it a bit since then

>>81052630
>Jesuits
literally harmless compared to other Catholic shit

>>81064893
>>81064790
He's right though, it's not a good Christian movie.

>>81071649
Maybe he was. But I'm just saying his commentary wasn't very interesting when trying to understand the movie.

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>>81052047
>This movie was pure christkino.

It was boring as fuck and Kylo Ren should have been the star, not Spiderman (not that it would have saved the movie from being boring as fuck).

>>81052047

I don't get /tv/s obsession with Silence, aside from contrarianism.

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>>81066360

The Jesuits weren’t necessarily bad guys but they were the gateway to the colonization of Japan, so it made perfect sense for the Japanese to exclude foreigners as much as possible.

>>81055363
Why do you think we give a hot fuck about what your father thinks?

>>81052047
Sure, with that hamfisted, shoed-in ending. Totally ignored half of the reason why the Nips persecuted Christians.

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>>81052047

pure kino, great cinematography, only bad part was the japanese people speaking english

>>81052559

found your home

>>81059409

welcome to the 16th century where catholics were still figuring things out now you get the whole point of the movie nutbrain

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>>81054720

>pro-christian narrative

lmao kill yourself

this movie is as anti-christian without going full fedora as they come

>>81053999
what did Scorsese mean by this?

>>81054058
Its all very nice except you didn't include the Inquisitor in your equation.

Inquisitor is evil and is responsible for all these. Therefore there is nothing wrong with the priests and their insistence cannot be counted as pride.

I understand what you said is what the movie is about. But the existence of Inquisitor always creates problem for your reading. Since the Inquisitor is Pure Evil, there is now a chance for priests to be counted as good.

>>81072042
>tfw people always say you look like the darker haired guy
never even seen a movie he's in that I'm aware of, only know he was the antagonist in the force awakens, I think

>>81053999
inverted devil tripsss

>>81075171

>the Inquisitor is Pure Evil

lol nutbrain

>>81061127
>Literally most indebted nation in the world (by % of GDP)

This is one of the most fascinating things about Japan's economy, since the debt is almost entirely domestic, through Japanese banks. So while technically it's abysmally high, there's a very big local interest in not fucking the country up through the debt.

Just finished watching this right now.

It's pretty clear it was supposed to be a pro-Christian message but it just made Christians look fucking retarded and Buddhism look reasonable.

>>81061127
>implying debt means fucking anything to a country in 2017

The world revolves so heavily around American, German and Japanese economies they're literally too big to fail. Otherwise China would have buttfucked us a long time ago. Globalization has the world so interconnected that no country can afford to let things like debt topple an important country.

My biggest issue is the film feels dishonestly slanted. There's an underlying message that both were wrong but Scorsese frames the entire movie in a way that that the wrongdoings of the Japanese are front and center while the areas in which they were right are more subtle and the Jesuits are hung out on a proverbial cross for the viewer to empathize with while their shortcomings are more subdued.

There were zero attempts to humanize Japanese Buddhists despite the fact that Ferreira and the translator made perfectly reasonable points and Rodriguez just shouted back religious dogma.

It ends up being a film that your average movie goer is going to see and think the Japanese were fucked up savages and Christianity wins again rather than the nuanced message it actually deserved.