Why do people think this guy did a good job? He is the worst

Because he is a true villain. He's just somebody that decided if someone can be a vigilante for justice he will be one for destruction. He doesn't need a backstory or a love interest or goofy jokes.

>>81012464
The point of Joker is for him to be Batman's polar oppisite, hes supposed to be fun and carefree and at the same time cruel and merciless, hes supposed to constantly be cracking jokes and being goofy because its the complete other side of Batman, thats what makes the villain and hero work, because they're literally black and white.
This movie shit on this, hes just a mobster psychopath without a compelling story or an interesting plot.
Hes just a crazy dude with some guns, and you need a lot more than that to be a good Joker.

>>81012350
because the movie was played off as a realistic crime thriller with comic characters. rather than the cgi shitfest of all the movies since.
it showed that comic characters can be serious and interesting without all the superpowers and saving the world schlock

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>>81012350

>>81012350
Because it was a good performance.
>MUH COMICS

>tfw it's now a meme to pretend to hate Heath Ledger's Joker

>>81012350
>Look mom I posted it!!!

>>81012350
Batman Begins is better anyway.

>>81012350
The thing with these kind of characters is that they have to fit into the tone of the movie.I thought heath ledger did a great job And even though he din't really portray the classical joker I liked his version.

Jared Leto's joker wasn't bad either in my opinion, he really did nail the insane and unpredictable part in my opinion.

But then again, I'm the kind of person that'll find the good stuff in every movie and will rarely hate any movie or character.

>>81012773
It's the Joker cycle.

>>81012725
If you want to make a crime thriller make a crime thriller, by making it this dark and gritty and real its insanely lame and feels dorky to watch Batman fight this guy.
Hes shitty.

>>81012827
I tried to do the same thing, but the greatness of Joker is in how you portray him, and the way Mark Hamill and the comics/series did it was the best, it was an enigma and a horror story of a guy who you could never rehabilitate, never save, never love, never fix, he was pure, complete, total evil, in its most concentrated form. He found the ultimate amount of joy and passion in killing people, twisting their bodies, and fighting Batman.
The relationship between the Bat and the Clown is what made the characters so much fun, they revealed and made more of their characters by being enemies, they evolved as characters through fighting each other, through having the constant battle of unrelenting good against unrelenting evil.
TDK? All it did was make them fight and make the Joker deranged. It didn't make sense, he wasn't interesting, he was just a psychopath, but the Joker is more than that.

>>81012773
Its not a meme, its the reality of true fans.

>>81012350
>>MUH EDGE
>>MUH MASTERMIND PLAN
>>MUH SHIPS WITH EXPLOSIVES
>blaming the actor for the writing

>>81013073
Well he didn't portray it right, a good Joker could have made this work, but he wasn't good at being joker.

>>81012982
I think you saw the movie through completely different eyes than mine. I can see where you're coming from, but it seems you suffer from something a lot of people suffer from: you're stuck with your first impression. It's the doctor who effect, nothing will ever compare to the first iteration you liked. The beauty of reboots in the dc and marvel cinematic universe alike is that you CAN see different iterations and visions. The stories adapt more to the world we live in and sebsequently the audience the producers target. The dark night was more of darker telling of batman, so they made the joker a bit darker too, and he fit in the movie perfectly in my opinion. If you ask me the joker was the main character, not batman.

The thing with these kind of things is that different actors can't play the same character the same way. While the original jokers were gangsters in the movie, heath ledger portrayed a messed up anarchist that committed crime for the sole reason of committing crime. Jared Leto's version was in essence just a quick side character in the movie and kinda resembled the fucked up side of Ledger's joker too, again, which fitted better in the movie.

Side note: one of the most beautiful things with Ledger's joker is something that he actually says himself: "Do I look like a guy with a plan?" yet he seems to be one step ahead every time. I really liked that.

It's because he scares you. The character triggered you're inner chaos agent and you got scared. Now you try to bury it by shitting on it.

>>81012350
>muh comics, muh source material

Fuck off and die

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I don't know who's trolling who but memes aside, his performance was brilliant because you can't find a single shred of Heath Ledger in his portrayal of The Joker.
He was The Joker, no matter how cheesy it sounds but he really embodied him in every conceivable way. And that's what acting is about really.

You don't have to like written character and his written characteristics if you're a source material nerd, but you are objectively wrong if you think Heath Ledger made a poor performance in the film.

>>81012350

>how to get free (You)s on /tv/

>>81012350
Because that's what the tone of the movie was. It had to fit with Nolan's autistic brand of grimdark "realism". It wasn't Heath's fault, he did what was asked of him.

Overall it was a meh movie but still better than a lot of capeshit, I suppose.

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>>81012350
While we're on the topic of 'Joker', what did you guys think of 'Jerome'(technically Joker). I thought the kid did a good job, way better than that faggot from suicide squad.

>>81014198
>you can't find a single shred of Heath Ledger in his portrayal of The Joker
False. This Joker still retained Ledger's homosexuality.

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>>81012773
i didn't like ledger joker from the start.
the whole character is the opposite of what joker is supposed to be

durr huurr i'm anarchy/chaos
>has perfect plans that work flawless

i'm a psycho killer
>barely makes and jokes, and the ones he does are shit and not funny.

if ledger had not died, he would have never been given that oscar

>>81012350
>Let her go
>Very poor choice of words
>*drops whatshername from skyscraper*
His humor is context-based, like making the pencil disappear.

>>81016133
The oscar for Best Actor isn't for an actor who was the closest to the source material, it's who gave the best performance in a film that year you ignorant cunt

>>81016133
>if ledger had not died, he would have never been given that oscar
are you implying an oscar is anything other than industry shilling? because oscars were meaningless well before he died, m8

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>>81012571
>without a compelling story or an interesting plot
Yes, because being a shitty husband and falling into a pit of whatever-the-fuck Ace Chemicals makes and that somehow drives him mad, makes him look like a clown and then just starts harassing some guy he barely knows.

>>81012982
I think like Batman himself your development was arrested at 10 years old if you think BTAS batman and joker were the be-all and end-all of those two characters.

Hamill played the Joker like he was - a cartoon caricature. He wasn't a horror story of a guy when he was trying to copyright fish and he wasn't when he hijacked a garbage float to spread his gas through the city. You're reading way too much into an intentionally two-dimensional comic character in a show for children.

>>81012350
>he blames the actor for the writing
Look, The Dark Knight has abysmal writing in every department. It's a complete mess, hardly much better than Snyder's films. And The Joker is a fundamentally terribly written character in this movie (The Joker hasn't been good in years, let's be honest with ourselves).

But this isn't Heath Ledger's fault. It wasn't him that decided to turn The Joker into an invincible Mary Sue. It wasn't him that decided that The Joker had to be a moronic edgelord reliant only on shock value and memes. This wasn't even the movie's fault, the character has been like this for a long time now. He just did what he was hired to do. It's not like he pulled a Jared Leto.

And for how he managed to handle the abysmal writing given to him, he was great. You are judging his performance through the character's writing. There was literally no one but the writers who could have salvaged him from being a terrible character. Actually, the fact that he received so much praise, even when portraying such a terrible character, even from people who did not like the character, is a testament to how good his performance is. He is literally the only good thing about the entire movie.

You have every right to complain about The Joker's abysmal writing and the butchery of everything that makes the character.
But you have to learn how to separate the actor from the writing.

>>81016620
It's because, shockingly enough, comic book characters are all terrible.

>>81012350
A part of me admires the effort, but my rational stoner side wonders how safe it was to lock himself up in his hotel room reading comics.

>>81012982
Yeah, but that big flowery description you've given to Hamill's joker could be applied equally to Ledger's. All you've done is describe a generic serial killer/ sociopath with a bunch of nice P.R fluff for flavour.

>>81016620
After seeing Ledger's early performance of the character, director Nolan told Ledger to just run with it and make the character his own. He did, and while most of what he said was in the script he still added some of his own dialogue too.

That said, the movies pacing, cinematography, and writing is still one of the best cape movies and I'm sorry you feel otherwise.

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>>81016688
>rational stoner side

>>81016688
Clearly wasn't safe lol

>>81012350
autism: the post

This has to be pasta?

>>81012982
>a horror story of a guy who you could never rehabilitate, never save, never love, never fix, he was pure, complete, total evil, in its most concentrated form

There is literally an episode where he gets butthurt because he finds out he can't copyright a breed of fish. Hamill's Joker is a wonderful performance, but is ultimately just a lovable fop. People need to stop pretending BTAS is some masterpiece of adult gothic storytelling.

>>81016793
>movies pacing, cinematography, and writing is still one of the best
You have no idea what any of these terms mean if you believe this. Especially the writing.
And what Ledger did was add humor to the character in scenes where it wasn't supposed to be there, like the clapping thing and his surprised reaction to the hospital blowing up.
Which only reinforces that he did try as hard as possible to save The Joker from his abysmal writing, and that apparently he was the only person who remembered that The Joker is supposed to be funny.

>>81016669
Not necessarily.
Comic book characters are mostly blank slates with a few established traits that writers can then choose to expand on or just go for something different. Certain writers can define a certain character and write him in such a way that everyone else is compelled to follow suit instead of trying something new.

The Joker has a basic concept and a few established traits: he's a criminal, he's a funny clown, he is the polar opposite of Batman. That's it. Whatever comes after is purely what other writers may add to him. He is not, inherently, a terrible character, because he, like most capeshit characters, is a basic concept first and foremost, and that's because this gives future writers the freedom to do different things with them (a freedom that they seem to squander).

It could just be that the movies suffer from having so few villains compared to the TV shows. In the cartoons and stuff you can have a different villain every episode, so villains can specialize in a specific thing. In a movie unless you make a big cast like suicide squad one villain needs to be able to pull off a variety of different roles.

That's probably part of why the Joker in that movie has an uncharacteristic level of overarching design in the plot. Gotham the tv show is able to reinforce this point. Regardless of what you think of the performance there's more room in Gotham for Jerome/Joker to just be a crazy clown because people like Nygma and Penguin fill the other shoes.

>>81012350

Use more buzzwords in your worthless post, faggot.

>wahh, Joker never used laughing gas! Not muh Joker!

>>81017358
"buzzword" and "faggot" are currently considered buzzwords too, faggot.

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>>81012350
Take your brain medicine OP

>>81012350
I've rewatched this recently and yes, he was a garbage Joker. At the time I was an edgy teen so that's probably why I liked it.

We all know Antony Hopkins is the best joker.

>>81012350

He got a lot of laughs in my theater.

Stuff like him washing his hands after talking to Harvey and the reaction to the detonator just not working got laughs. Tripping, falling on his ass and spraying machine gun fire everywhere. >"Scuze me, I wanna drive"
>"You think you can steal from us and just walk away?"
>"Yeah"

I mean hes not throwing chattering teeth and throwing playing cards but he made plenty of jokes.

Then again this is a bait thread so I'm wasting time desu

>>81016620

Is it summer already? Looks like Junior is really into his first year film class.

>>81017486

No, actually, "buzzword" is a meaningless word. "Faggot" is what the OP is.

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>>81017015
I'm sorry you didn't go to film school and learn how to properly light a scene using a mixture of lights and camera angles to properly show the mood of a scene.

Though, it brings us back to Batman v. Superman and Suicide Squad. Both are filmed with lots of shadows casting over everything in the movie like it's the Mammoth Graveyard, but still tossing jokes shittier than than any Marvel quip. "I'm a friend of your son."

The Dark Knight has a consistent tone that remains all the way through. There's no strange cuts that seem disjointed, the movie flows through its scenes like a river. Most of the plot can be gleamed simply by properly showing it with powerful angles and musical queues. So the Joker isn't played by Mark Hamill, so what? Heath Ledger's Joker makes tons of jokes, but you don't notice them because he's a literal crazy person who is the only person in the entire movie to laugh at his jokes which even goes the same for Hamill's performance since without laughing gas (a kit in his arsenal that was only made for the animated series) his jokes come off as nothing but cruel irony that only he thinks is funny.

If you want a hilarious Joker look no further than my included image.

>>81012571
And Jared Leto did a better job?

>I am being sarcastic.

Best Joker is still Mark Hamil

>OP got BTFO so.hard in the other thread about TDK he starts another one

Sad

>>81012725
>realistic
Hearing a grown 'man' do a 'gurggh this is my Batman voice!!!' was utterly pathetic when he's contrasted by a dark gritty atmosphere. Jesus, how can people watch 'realistic' capeshit.

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>>81018016
>he uses film school in an argument unironically

you guys do understand that if they tried to do a more classic joker with cheesy jokes and gags, you would all hate it with the power of 1000 suns right? humor has changed, they just can't do that kind of joker anymore.

go ahead, try and picture it. try. it can't be done, not well at least.

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>>81012827
>unironically liking Leto's Joker

I can't stand it when writers and fans continue the mistaken belief that The Joker is insane.

HE IS NOT. THAT'S THE POINT.

The reason why The Joker is Batman's greatest enemy is because The Joker is using the EXACT SAME METHODS as Batman. He's pretending to be an insane criminal to mask the fact that he's a schemer and master strategist.

When Bruce Wayne first began, he failed miserably as an anonymous crimefighter because he was just a man fighting crime. The same skills, ... but the criminals were always confidant they could take him on: he was just another man. So he created the "Bat-man". Suddenly, criminals were scared of what he could do. Many in Gotham honestly believe Batman isn't HUMAN. Others believe that no matter what you do, Batman has a weapon/strategy to stop you. GODMODE VIA PREPTIME. That's how well Bruce Wayne has pulled off the "Batman" concept. Through theatrics and misdirection, Batman cannot truly be predicted.

The Joker does exactly the same. By *pretending* to be insane and commiting ridiculous acts at any random interval, The Joker is *disguising* the fact that he's just another clever criminal. Every step of his plan has been carefully planned through the ingenuity of a Chess Grand Master, but he covers it with seemingly insane moments of random madness. The clothes, the behaviour, the sheer unpredictability... "You cannot predict what The Joker will do". YES YOU CAN. That's why Batman always beats him.

This is why they are arch enemies. The Joker is aware of Batman's methods and works to outmanuever him. Batman also studies The Joker's actions and recognises which were feints and distractions, and which were clues to his REAL plan. A master strategist hero and master strategist villain, using the same methods of misdirection and theatricality to succeed.

...but no, people are all "Joker is Batman's opposite because he's truly insane, and a force of chaos lol".

No. Just... no.

>>81018016
>There's no strange cuts that seem disjointed, the movie flows through its scenes like a river.
Anon, in case your film school didn't teach you this, what you are talking about is editing. It's pretty hard for a blockbuster to have truly awful editing. But there's nothing spectacular about TDK's editing either.
And this has little to do with the aspect you claimed to be "some of the best" like writing and cinematography.

>the Joker isn't played by Mark Hamill, so what ?
At what point did I ever mentioned Mark Hamill ?
You idiot, I was defending Heath Ledger's performance and how he added literally the only humorous parts to The Joker.
Did you even read my post before you decided to "ACKSHUALLY" ?

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Both Ledger and Leto were fantastic Jokers. Kill yourselves faggots.

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>>81018016
>UUHH DO YOU EVEN FILM SCHOOL BRUH ? TDK IS LE MASTAHPISS
Sure feels like Reddit up in here.

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>>81012350
Who gives a fuck when we already have best Joker right here?

The Dark Knight — Creating the Ultimate Antagonist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFUKeD3FJm8

The Dark Knight: "Identity Secrets" - Analysis and Explanation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtx9ExfU6MY

The Dark Knight | Nolan's Republic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhpjKX1j-KQ

A World without Rules - The Dark Knight Analysis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9tsC0a9svg

The Dark Knight - How does a Camera tell a story?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTt0izejSJw

RT 94% 8.5/10
metacritic 82
CinemaScore "A"
Critics' choice: 96/100
#4 IMDB top 250

The Dark Knight was nominated for eight Academy Awards for the 81st Ceremony most nominations received by a film based on a comic book

The Dark Knight was included in American Cinematographer's "Best-Shot Film of 1998-2008" list, ranking in the top 10. More than 17,000 people around the world participated in the final vote.

Name top ten films of 2008 by the American Film Institute.

The Dark Knight was ranked the 15th greatest film in history on Empire's 2008 list of the "500 Greatest Movies of All Time," based upon the weighted votes of 10,000 readers, 150 film directors, and 50 key film critics.

The Dark Knight continues Batman Begins' tradition of drawing primarily and heavily from the graphic novels, one shots and limited series' of the late 1980's and 1990's, but this time the writers also went all the way back to the roots, to the earliest issues of the Batman comic book. In addition to the same sources Batman Begins drew, some of the cited influences for The Dark Knight are the first two issues of Batman and The Killing Joke.

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Who did it best?

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>>81018016
>using film school in a argument
>defending TDK
>"the movie flows through its scenes like a river"

>>81015948
epic for the win

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>>81018711
DA JOKAH BAYBEE

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>>81018711
Trick picture. The best one is Troy Baker's.

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>>81018632
>I-IT'S POPULAR AND CRITICS LOVED IT
>H-HERE'S A BUNCH OF YOUTUBERS "ANALYSING" IT
>THAT'LL SHOW YOU

>>81018632
Imagine being this mad.

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>>81018632
>he thinks le epin youtube analysis and critic scores prove the movie is good
>capeshit fans are this pathetic and desperate

>>81012350
heath ledger is to live action batman as
mark hammil was to cartoon batman.

both were the epitome of the character

and well never get another iteration as good

deal with it

>>81018869
>>81018999
>B-but my opinion is better

>>81012861
yeah cause the guy in the bat costume wasnt past the line?

>>81018632
How's middle school ?

>>81012350
shut the fuck up you contrarian faggot

>>81016133
>wearing a mask in public
bruh women wear more makeup all the time

>>81016620
>turn The Joker into an invincible Mary Sue

>Implying he is not invincible Mary Sue in comics

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>>81018632
IS this fresh pasta kino?

He was pretty funny, maybe he didnt tell any actual jokes but stuff he said and how he acted was pretty funny.

Like when batman says joker would be in a padded cell and joker says maybe they could share one. That was pretty funny.
When he mimiced the Russian saying "frrrreak", i lol'd.

Its like he never took anyone serious and he made a joke of everyone else, he also thought their morals and views were a joke, as he said in the interrogation scene.

>>81012750
This is one of those cases where the character was very different from the comic version but was done so well and genuinely that very few people minded it.

Its like Raimi spiderman having organic webs, sure, a major difference but the majority of fans enjoyed the movie and were willing to overlook this change because raimi, maguire and the crew did such a great job with the movie

>>81016133
His plan was to have the one boat blow up the other, and that failed.

As an anarchist, his only goal was to bring about chaos, he was an agent of chaos, so he did his job. But he wasnt perfect in all his plans.

Comic book joker may not have been as gritty as ledger joker but i think they both have the same idea, to bring chaos to gotham, both wanted this in direct response to batman. Both wanted to keep bats around because going against him was fun, it was all a big joke to them.

>>81016496
>Some guy he barely knows
Batman was the reason he fell into the vat of acid. Of course he's interested in him.

>>81018435
https://youtu.be/zIdc59ThTtY

Top kek

>>81012982
The fact that you call them the Bat and the Clown, like they're two monolithucppic entities, two existential concepts crashing together, suggests to you're an unashamed fanboy of BTAS. And that's fine, it has its moments (thought nowhere near as many as the fans think). The problem is it means all your opinions on anything superhero, and specifically, Batman, are going to be coloured by and compared to BTAS - and you're holding on to an idealised, nostalgic version of BTAS as it is, one that largely exists in your imagination.

You talk about Hamill's joker as this incarnation of total evil that lives and loves to kill that you can never save, never fix, never love, never blah blah blah - which, first of all, is deliberately ignoring all the times he wasn't Satan's vessel on earth and was in fact just an annoying prick or a whimsical prankster, AND, second of all, is making the mistake of thinking all that bullshit makes him interesting and unique anyway. You can take that description and apply it to Lecter, Bateman, the Master, Moriarty (in some incarnations), Krueger, Vicious, and a bunch of others I'm. Not remembering - in short, not a big deal.

You're so in love with this IDEA you have of that Joker you can't even see that in ninety percent of his stories, he ISN'T that, so ultimately, all your criticisms of every Joker, ever, are going to come down to not muh headcanon - in which cSe, you need to get a grip dude.

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>>81012350
If you're gonna do the joker, do it right.
Ledger fags-
Suicide shit fags-
Take notes.

>>81012571
>hes supposed to be fun and carefree and at the same time cruel and merciless, hes supposed to constantly be cracking jokes and being goofy
but that's literally what he did

>>81020626
>blaming the guy trying to stop the criminals from being criminals

Was the Joker the original BLM supporter?

>>81012350
>>81012464
>>81012571

LITERALLY THE RIDDLER IN THE MOVIE

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>>81018016
>The Christopher Nolan School of Filmmaking

>>81018016

HAHAHAHAHA

WHAT A LOSER

>>81012350
He did a brand new portayel of the Joker in every format. Live-action, animated, comic book..

Everyone else has gone with a source, this nigger did it legit from fresh. So go lose weight you fat bastard.

Nicholson joker was better, not edgy or "intense" just a guy who makes bad jokes and poisons people for fun.

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>>81012350

I love Ledger's Joker, but over time I think Jack Nicholson's is better. His grows on me more and more.

I know people LOVE to say he just played himself as the Joker, but I saw a clear difference between Jack Napier and the Joker. Compared to Nicholson, Ledger is just boring.

Visually, I don't think you get much better than Nicholson. Just that deadly glee he had was pretty perfect.

>>81018711
Mark Hamill

>>81012350
It's because he's Batman's psychotic stalker. It's easy to make that funny (The LEGO Batman Movie), but it's played straight here. He wants to fuck with Batman.

>>81019414
>He's The Comedian made an antagonist

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>>81018632
It seems very Napoleonic; a contrast between Republican Simulacra and Imperial Simulation.

The Republic represents the order of Utopia and Desire, while empire is devoted to Operations of surveillance and absolute control.

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>>81026519
It's interesting that Hamill's Joker and Skywalker are both basically anti-Imperialist in orientation, but they reflect the malignancy of late Republics. Ledger's Joker is even more directly anti-Imperialist than Hamill's which probably what makes his Joker seem contemporary to American audiences?

>>81026349

That bottom pic is creepy as fuck. Is that a deleted scene