Try to redeem this character

MARTHA

>>80939774
Nope, the film was obviously too deep to try convincing you anyway

>>80939774
He has hair, is young, not bald, handsome, full mane, and tall

>>80939828
Say hair again.

Make him less "WOOHOOHOOHOO GUIZ I AM SO CRAZY AND SUCH A RANDUMB VILLAIN" and more like the Lex in the DCAU

>>80940086
This. I can only hope they mature the character in future installments.

The only way to redeem this character is if his daddy did something truly horribly to him and it drove him nuts. Dude was insane. No sane person would do the things he did in that movie. Not my Luthor, baby.

Well he's a scheming Jew which is a realistic take on a classic villain

>>80939774
He is like a TDK Joker fanfic written by your average redditor.

Honestly, his portrayal of Luthor was so goddamn terrible that it took me right out of the movie. It was already dumb enough with the terrible, grimdark tone for Superman and the 'Martha' shit but this, this was the final blow.

The entire Doomsday thing just should've been scrapped and left for another movie. They should've just focused on Batman and Superman instead of bringing le ebin millenial Lex Luthor and his horrible CGI monster.

i caught about 10 minutes of this movie and every time he was on screen it was cringekino

whose idea was it to make lex luthor a retarded autistic child

how exactly is he gonna get out of prison now? im not sure "superman was dead so couldn't testify" will work again.

>>80940086
>>80940175
nothing he did was random or crazy, good job being meme'd though


>>80940240
he was only insane at the end once he found out about Darkseid, everything before that was planned.

I went into BvS without knowing anything about capeshit and I thought he was ok. He came across as arrogant and OCD. It would be cool to see him developed more following the events of that film

>>80940770
Jar of piss

>>80940784
>He came across as arrogant and OCD.
This. I don't get the cringe comments.
That was literally his character.

He was acting crazy ALL THE TIME in case Superman was watching.

He went actually crazy after talking with the Kryptonian ship.

>>80939774
He was in completely control for about 95% of the movie, moving everyone around like pawns without them even knowing.


His hate for Superman came from deep down, a mix of jealousy and disbelief torn right out of the comics that I haven't seen translated to screen before (heck, even DCAU Lex cared more about raw power than hating on Superman).


And he won.

>>80940812
wasnt random or crazy, it was part of his plan and a big "Fuck you" to the senator while referencing her conversation from before. Showing her that her attempt to get back at Luthor was all part of his plan.

>>80940812
?
What about that is random? That was set up in an earlier scene.

>>80940849
never did he act crazy before the kryptonian ship, at least not outside of normal super-villain crazy

>>80940914

That's what I mean.

If we think was acting stupid before then, it's because he assumed Superman could always be watching, and he wanted to look harmless.

In his own mind, the plan was to look like he was going to come at Superman in an ineffective way, and to actually come at him effectively; like Batman's plan. But Lex's plan involved deliberately taking poor security measures so Batman would do it instead.

>>80940770
>Puts a gummy bear in a grown mans mouth
>Rambles some vague religious shit
Totally normal

Impossibru for the current DCEU and with that actor. He's too young, looks too much like a muppet, and as others have pointed out, has such outlandishly childish ideas for master plans that he's never going to be as intimidating as Lex Luthor should.

The only possibility is that he's the son of the actual Lex Luthor who shows up later and is not played by Aderall Moot.

>>80940770
His reason for opposing Superman was crazy.
Like Snyder, Luthor thinks Superman is a god. Luthor cannot accept a world in which a gods exist, therefore Superman has to either die or become morally compromised.

It makes sense but not to a person of sound mind.

>>80941016
he put the candy in the guy's mouth as an act of domination, he did it after the guy gave him what he wanted, to show that he controls him. I never said it was normal, but it sure aint crazy.


Also it wasnt vague religious shit at all. He specifically talks about how people name their gods and points out the difference between Superman's name given by the people (Superman) and his chosen name (Clark Joseph Kent) to re-enforce his point of Superman being a false god to those that believe in him.

>>80941039
>His reason for opposing Superman was crazy.


What? No it wasn't. He specifically DOESNT see Superman is a god and is just pissy others do. Just like every other Luthor ever, except Hackman who just cared about real estate. It wasnt that hard to understand.

>>80941035
>has such outlandishly childish ideas for master plans

But he really doesnt, not anymore than any other super villain.

>>80940875
>>80940880
I get that it was set up and it came from what she said earlier, but think about it from the point of anyone else.

This guy took a random figure of speech she probably made up, set a plan to blow up the entire Congress to destroy superman's public image and break him. But he then fills up a jar of his own piss and labels it according to this metaphor to make some kind of point before she blows up. It's Leto-tier zaniness when you consider that it was some random shit she said and probably didn't remember.

>>80941177
Look, maybe you're used to having this argument with people who don't get the movie or people who hate the movie.

I understand BvS. I like BvS.

And I'm telling you. Go watch the rooftop scene with Superman and Luthor again, because the stuff Luthor says about "God can't be all-powerful and all-good" demonstrates what I'm trying to explain to you.

Luthor thinks the world is so bleak and fucked up that the only god he can accept must be as bleak and fucked up as his own world vision.

(In a sense, Luthor's madness could be seen as a projection of Zack Snyder's own limited worldview, because Snyder seems similarly incapable of representing the iconic Superman that is all-powerful and all-good.)

>>80941421
it was the last thing she said to him before the hearing and it probably wasnt actually piss just there to mock her. And again, it wasnt random, it was trying to show that her act of rebellion against Lex (the whole senate hearing) was all part of his plan. What she called revenge (peach tea) was actually helping her enemy (piss). It was classic Luthor mocking, right up there with that issue where he offers that waitress money to sleep with her and leaves before she answers, just to destroy her.

>>80940914
That's my assessment, too. The info-dump he got from the ship unhinged him a bit.

It will be interesting to see how he acts once he's had more time to process it all.

>>80941617
> Luthor says about "God can't be all-powerful and all-good" demonstrates what I'm trying to explain to you.


No, that is literally him explaining why Superman, or anyone, CANT be a god. Because he doesnt believe Superman is as good or powerful as part of the world is claiming.

You misunderstood.

>>80941617
also. you retard, Snyder DOES end up portraying him as all good AND all powerful in the end by showing that his death was just temporary.

>>80941617
>I understand BvS
>proceeds to not understand BvS

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>>80939774
Eisenberg should have gotten an Oscar for his Lex Luthor performance.

fuck the haters

>>80939774
I genuinely thought he was really good as lex

>>80940842
>>80940784

I genuinely don't understand how people don't understand this.

His performance was good. he was supposed to be a silicon valley prodigy type character.

>>80941860
same
>>80941850
he is so good in that scene.

>>80941723
That's true, it's clever if you have all of the details like that, but when I saw it in theaters, I remember just thinking "man, he actually peed in that jar just to spite her".

>>80941917
I'll say one thing, BvS really is a movie that demands you pay attention to everything.

>>80941850
I didn't love the character but his acting was fantastic.

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>it's a "trying to explain something with levels and symbolism to a pleb" thread

>>80941788
He doesn't even believe he's a god. He was fucking with him, too. Just like Senator Finch, and to exactly the same end - for Clark to know precisely how he'd been fucked when it was too late for him to do anything about it.

>>80941850
Goddam right.

>>80941860
You are not alone.

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>>80941788
>>80941813

You're a delight.

> that is literally him explaining why Superman, or anyone, CANT be a god

Let me put it to you this way.

Say you show me a picture of a winged and feathered creature with a wide beak for a mouth and webbed feet.

You then ask me, "What does this picture show? What is it?"

I examine the picture and then look at you square in the eye and say, "It's not a duck."

You can tell me it's a duck all you want, but I'm going to insist otherwise, because, hey, it turns out for some reason I refuse, no matter what, to accept that ducks exist. In fact, it bothers me that you keep trying to convince me that ducks are real.

I then proceed to start ripping the feathers and bills off all the ducks I can find to prove that there's no such thing as a duck.

Would you say I'm crazy?

By trying to contradict the goodness and/or greatness of Superman, Luthor is trying to rip the feathers of a duck and call it not-a-duck. That's what a crazy person unable to accept reality as it is would do.

And when Zack has Superman die in heroic sacrifice at the end he demonstrates that the heroic ideal is ultimately a self-negating principle. Only a miracle can overcome this negation and make the spirit of the hero live again.

<Cue JL movie third act Superman resurrection>

>>80941723
well put

>>80941850
You'd think 4chan would be tapdancing that a jew is Christ's nemesis.

>>80939774
superman birthright
little changes to the backstory aside, nothing he says or does is out of character


i think the only thing that really is outside the scope of lex's behavior in the comics is the domestic terror attack, and even that might be something with comic book inspiration

>>80941783
Didn't he have a breakdown while giving his speech at the fundraiser or whatever? Did that happen before or after he went in to the ship?

>>80940853
He didn't win. His goal was to kill Superman. Supes ain't dead

>>80941783
>>80943523
the speech was before the ship, and more about him identifying with prometheus and feeling unappreciated, i'm sure there's more to do with everything else going on in that scene and that he's the one 'bringing everything together' but i haven't pieced it yet

>>80940670
Same, his acting it's always mediocre but he just went the extra mile for this, even Kevin Spacey did it better.

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>>80943523
Scene-wise, it's after, but it happens earlier chronologically. It's a backwards reveal, sort of like the underlying psychology behind why Bruce is branding the criminals he views as irredeemable. They take place side-by-side as well.

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>>80939774
>replace with Michael Cera
>lex is now hilarious and enjoyable
This actually applies to any movie with Jesse whatever. Zombie land could be an easy 9/10 with that swap

>>80939774
You guys are all fucking all retarded. Even the people who like Lex and BvS got his motivation mixed up. Let me spell it out for you.

First off Lex hates being a person with little to no power. When he was a child he was beaten and was helpless. He couldn't be fucking saved because he had less power than his father and since God didn't help him he hated God, or the idea of God.

In comes Superman and now people are praising him and all the while Lex is once again a man with now power. He's nothing compared to Superman. This is where this line comes into play.

>The bittersweet pain among men is having knowledge with no power because... because that is paradoxical

So what does he do, he creates Doomsday to kill Superman. But that's not all because people look up to Superman. He has to prove this line that he says....

>Do you know the oldest lie in America, Senator? It's that power can be innocent.

..... and the reason he has to prove it is because if he kills Superman then and there some are going to view Superman as a good guy who just got killed. Lex doesn't want that. So what does he do? He forces Superman to make the decision of killing Batman. Lex heavily implies this mentality.

>They need to see the fraud you are, with their eyes.

There now stop bitching. Could it have been done better? Yes.

>>80939774
the social network was the only film he's been in that truly fit him, as it's the only time where his own personality and the character's personality actually matched (a smug self righteous semi-autistic asshole)

Jesse is a one note shitty actor and a complete miscast from the start
>But thats what they we're going for, a sperg
Fuck off. Thats a lie straight from Snyder himself so he could justify catering to Jesse since he originally said no to playing Jimmy Olsen.

>>80944213
>implying it has anything to do with his motivation

You're a fucking idiot if you don't think that this sperg wasn't miscast.

Imagine if a more seasoned actor like Kevin Spacey or Bryan Cranston had literally the same lines as him. This would be regarded as a masterpiece (ok that's an exaggeration but you get the point)

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>>80944213
You're getting warmer.

>>80944932
kevin spacey had some similar lines in returns, but to a different end goal

>>80944213
I dont give a fuck what JesseLex's motivation was supposed to be, it was fucking pretentious shit and basically changed on the fly. Do you know what a simpler, stronger message would have been? Superman hinders humanities progress. Comic Lex had a problem with Clark because he was the ultimate safety net, something humanity became too reliant on. Moreover, Lex hated Clark because ALL of his accomplishments in business, science, and charity were completely overshadowed by a flying brick. God metaphors, daddy issues, and being a sperg, didnt really work

>>80939774
I feel bad for Eisenberg though, they could have had anyone play lex and if he acted like this id hate him, it's not Jesse's fault

>>80945021
is this seriously the only big movie to reference us like that?


that's hilarious tho, sharing little "leaked" footage of metas

>>80945193
>Moreover, Lex hated Clark because ALL of his accomplishments in business, science, and charity were completely overshadowed by a flying brick

that's in the movie, the stuff you're singling out is stuff that feeds into how he sees superman, which is ultimately exactly what you describe

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>>80939774

It's fine. It's Jesse being Jesse and Jesse a cute.

>>80939774
he becomes the Joker after he shoot Jocuck.

>>80945396
Which is completely overshadowed by all the other shit that didnt need to be there anon. By the time he began monologing about Martha being a witch I was about sick of his rambling and wanted Clark to just kill him already

>>80945254
As best I've ever been able to tell.

The reason I post it, though, is it's the only overt clue we get to what Lex was actually looking toward for an end goal.

I love this movie so much. It's the only cape movie I can ever remember seeing where the villain reveals almost nothing, and still has a monologue. It's all bullshit. Every last word of it.

>>80945193
So you don't want a new take on the character?

>>80944932
Pretty much most comments on this thread are about his motivation. But if you wanna talk about miscast, just replace Jesse with that guy from Smallville and you get about 50 more rotten tomatoes percentage points.

>>80945621
>By the time he began monologing about Martha being a witch I was about sick of his rambling


My God, I read posts like this and get amazed all over again at what they managed to do. It didn't just work on Clark, it worked on portions of the audience, too.

>>80945679
new=/=good anon. Im all for trying new things with characters, but not if it becomes unfocused, stupid, and overall laughable thanks to the miscast actor trying to convey it

I just find it hilarious that even after all this time, about a year since BvS was shown, people can't still get the plot of the fucking movie. Just shows that any film that makes the audience think and analyze gets panned hard and bashed.

stick to your generic popcorn numale flicks please.

>>80940670
Underrated

>>80940770
What is darkseid

>>80941421

>Jar of his own piss


How do you know it's his? He's probably not that stupid. He probably used Mercy's.

Jesse Eisenberg's performance would have been perfect had he been playing the Joker. As such, it was just okay.

>>80946457
Or maybe it shows how awful of a storyteller Snyder is and how shitty Terrio writes and how poorly edited it is. But no, let's go with the it's too smart 4u argument since it's obviously the capeshit director with more intelligence.

>>80939774
>Worst
he's literally the best you tasteless fuck

>Which is completely overshadowed by all the other shit that didnt need to be there anon. By the time he began monologing about Martha being a witch I was about sick of his rambling and wanted Clark to just kill him already
>>80945764
>>80945621
lol nice, an admission that superman on screen is a better man than any of us

and yeah sometimes i wonder about the extent to which snyder wants to go meta

>>80945642
snyder has said multiple times that his goal with lex is in a guy who "you can never quite pin down"

a lot of the 'problems' people express with the movie seem to be almost induced on the audience

>>80946976
no its definitely the latter in this scenario

>>80947112
I totally get where you're coming from, but what I was getting at is that the smokescreen didn't just work on Clark, it worked on us, too,

You don't call a man a god then call him a flying demon and his mother a witch in the very next breath unless you're fucking with them,

That monologue was granny's peach tea for Clark - something that he's not supposed to catch on to until it's too late for him to do anything about it.

Think back to what Lex said to Senator Finch right before the bombing. Then think about what had to be going through her head there in that final moment when she knew she was fucked and the guy who did it just got through telling her how he was going to do it.

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>>80946976

let's take into context what Snyder's tasks are, He is given a task to create a film :

1) an origin movie for Justice League
a) this will include scenes and character development for Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman
b) have the 3 team up to serve as a basis for Justice League - obviously this has to be a super villain since how can any human stand against 3 superheroes?
c) have that super villain be engineered by a human to serve its origin and for connecting with the human personas of Superman and Batman

2. have a continuity to Superman's actions after the Man of Steel - this includes the political aspects of having an uncontrollable god exist in the presence of humans and its spiritual implications as well

3. Introduce Batman and relate him to Superman

4. Be distinctly different from Marvel movies - tackle the serious side of having heroes among us


Given this ginormous task, it’s amazing how Snyder was able to make it all work in his film. To cover all this points would take about 4 - 4 1/2 hours and I feel that if given the freedom Snyder would have done it so. A task of this magnitude would have failed Kubrick but Snyder has done it, although we admit this is not his best work but I would have loved to see what he could have done in a 6 hour epic Director's cut of Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice™.

I'm excited to see more of Snyder's work. I'm not trolling I really do. Even his adaptation of The Fountainhead, but I really wish I could see it in Snyder's intended form. Not getting cut down to what the studio wants. A 6 hour Fountainhead and Justice League and see it in Snyder's vision would be amazing to see.

>>80947436
i'm>>80947180
i think what you're saying makes sense even without considering characterization, as the stuff you're pointing out gets invoked by different people at different points in the movie, it would make sense for lex to do the same thing, with his personal considerations included
since we're on the same page,

"they have to see the fraud you are
"the blood, on your hands
does the cut look similar to the whole in superman's chest?

i swear to god the way dialogue and visual details are cross referenced and compared and juxtapositioned feels like a fucking rabbithole

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>>80947715
I hadn't noticed that, but I noticed this from Suicide Squad.

>>80942469
So you agree that Luthor doesnt think Superman is a god? Okay then.

>>80946457
Neh , everyone "get it" Eissenlex actually spell it out for you, critics "get it" or why its your excuse for winning so many razzies? The paid critics one? the its2deep?
What happens its that all the themes are too heavy for a comic book movie, it look chessy, thats why Snyder don't want the characters to talk in costumes, and he is right.

>>80943560
To Lex, Batman, and the rest of the universe he did. Don't use out of universe knowledge for in-universe arguments.

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>>80947891
The Joker already knows what's up.

>>80943627
>>80943652
>>80943523
guys, the library scene is really obvious. We know that Luthor, since the beginning of the movie, knows the secret identities of Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman. Both Superman and WW are there. Him fucking up the speech is Lex being so fucking mad at Superman and the idea of these gods that he fucks up his own speech, he has to suppress his anger at Superman and change his speech so it doesnt come off as overly hateful.


Its literally just that he hates Superman so much he can't give a proper speech because he is standing right there.

>>80947926

Please just read this.

>>80947436


And tell me you think you're even in the same conversation.

>>80945193
>Comic Lex had a problem with Clark because he was the ultimate safety net, something humanity became too reliant on

Nope, confirmed not reading comics.

>>80946688
Darkseid is the big bad of the DC universe. Originally the "New god" of fascism and complete order, he has since become just a kind of god of evil, or as DC calls it "anti-life."

>>80947891
>>80947942
haven't seen ss so can't comment
file name there indicates you caught on to something no one else has yet, pretty trippy mayne

>>80947437


This project could have been taken by anyone else and it would have been just as bad or maybe even better. It's really not amazing what he did. Anyone can come up with ideas. It's takes an utter genius to actually execute it properly. And as we've seen, BvS was far from a perfect execution.

>>80941139
This is actually a good post... regarding the whole name.

>>80948271
Thanks man.


Its weird, with the JL trailer /co/ has become a shithole and /tv/ has become a bastion of conversation.

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>>80948221

>>80948296
>>80941139
>>80947891
>>80947942
same dude?

>>80948352
i got that, i just didn't think snyder and co would literally pull from e v e r y t h i n g under the sun, which just makes me appreciate it all the more

where were you in the og bvs threads last year?

Manchild comic book ears aside Eisenberg has such negative charisma that I'll never pay for anything with him in it.

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>>80948030
Watch this:

https://youtu.be/-4cJb25uzcU?t=182

And this,

https://youtu.be/xsBBryVv06c

Notice his wardrobe. That's how early he was already in the ship accessing its database. It's a backwards reveal of his psychology, and it's intercut with similar scenes making similar revelations about Bruce.

Lex's meltdown during his speech is him willfully biting back the desire to finish this sentence:

"Knowledge is power and I am the most powerful man alive . . .No, wait. What am I?"

He's literally breaking beneath the weight of the knowledge he's digesting.

This thread is proof (if you needed it) that bvs will go down as one of the great and under appreciated capeshits. A true cult classic

>>80948457
i was there, i just dont typically go in them as they tend to be pretty toxic with people calling all discussion headcannon.

>>80948085
Worst sophist ever

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>>80948395
Nope!

>>80948105
Yeah, this is what Lex tells himself and everyone else but it isn't the truth. Eisenberg's performance gets to the core of Luthor as a man consumed by envy. Anyone can tell you that in every adaptation Luthor has usurped the powers of Superman any chance he gets. Does that sound like a guy who believes

>Comic Lex had a problem with Clark because he was the ultimate safety net, something humanity became too reliant on.

Luthor doesn't give a fuck about humanity, he never has. It's all about his own glorification.

>>80948601
Yeah, that goes for me, too. A lot of this has come to me slowly over time.

>>80939774
What a miscast

together with Erza faggot

the chad kino is tainted

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>>80948843
yeah. Fuck plebs man. Filthy, filthy people the lot of them.

>>80941850
Fucking lol at Henry Cavil's disgusted reaction

thats the face we've all made when he was cast as lex luthor

I finally saw BvS. It was really good in some parts, much much better than any Marvel, but some parts brought it down a lot.

Lex was awful. I understand what they were trying to do with this version of Lex, and Eisenburg did a great job of executing it. It was unfortunately a horrible idea. It didn't work at all. I would have much preferred a stoic, genius businessman Lex like out of an Ayn Rand novel, which Snyder apparently likes. I know it's a meme but I think Idris Elba would have been perfect. I like the black Lex from the animated series.

Doomsday also sucked. It really felt like it ruined the first two acts of the movie to have Batfleck and Superjesus team up against a mindless CGI monster. I would have had Batman about to kill Superman, hesitates, then Lex captures both of them and finishes using Batman's kryptonite on Superman. As a last act, Superman breaks Batman free before he dies.

Wonder Woman was surprisingly good. I hate the character in general, but I thought she worked really well, especially when she was out of costume. It makes me optimistic about the WW movie.

>>80948601
>>80948843
you dudes got more or what

>>80949096
Oh, just so much more. One sec and I'll dig up some links.

>>80949026
Cavill always had that face in Snyder's films though. which i found hilarious since he was such a fuccboi in his spy film

I still think Eisenberg's Lex is a crazy person but this thread has given me a lot to think about.

Crazy or not, I still insist that this version of Lex Luthor is as different from the classic comic book version of Lex as the Byrne/Wolfman era Lex was from the silver age version etc.

And I will keep trying to persuade people (those who like BvS, those who hate it, everyone) that the Eisenberg Lex truly is just different.

And that's not necessarily bad.

And if you happen to think it's a poorly chosen or executed variation of the character, you are of course totally free to feel whatever you feel about it.

> But you must concede that it's a new take on the character. Otherwise you can't be taken seriously.

>>80949096
i have a recommendation if thats something, watch Inferno by Dario Argento, its a beautiful film that's has a full on rabbit hole of depth to it in the form of riddles and imagery that the director specifically put in.

Seriously if you like BvS for those reasons, Inferno is well worth a viewing.

>>80948561
Yeah I agree with you, I just think Lex's hate for Superman plays into it too

>>80949244
>Crazy or not, I still insist that this version of Lex Luthor is as different from the classic comic book version of Lex as the Byrne/Wolfman era Lex was from the silver age version etc.


I mean BvS Lex is very obviously drawn from his silver/golden age incarnations as a mad scientist, specifically the interpretation in Birthright (even if just visually) but they definitely pushed that version of Lex down their own direction

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>>80949096
well okay


the top image is from a delete scene from Batman Forever which is about Bruce facing his "inner bat" and coming out the other side a hero. Where in Snyder's BvS, the bat consumes Bruce and he fails at being a hero.

>>80947942
>>80947891
also I'm pretty sure The Hanged Man card means "change" opposed to death. Superman's death heralds the change of the world as they know it.

>>80949535
yo, the cut forever scene and BvS were based on a DKR sequence, only in that Bruce beats the bat

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>>80943652
Notice how Bruce's scar is in the same place where he brands the criminals

>>80949535
>the bat consumes Bruce
I notice in the movie that he talks about Bruce Wayne in third person to Alfred but talks about Batman in first person to Alfred. I wonder if that's going to change now that he's recovering.

>>80949286
i was going to make a more formally written case for bvs and possibly justice league being an attempt to make the most wide encompassing mythic story on screen on yet,

but i want to be the guy that doesn't invest that much time and effort into capeshit, my boy snyder or otherwise

>>80949592
which sequence in particular are you referring?

>>80949244
>>80949475
so what exactly what's been happening with comics from the beginning?

i'm telling you guys, snyder and co understand comics better than anyone

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Bvs threads tend to be comfy when marvel shills stay away or at the very least act civil.

Good thread senpaitachi

>>80949608
honestly Justice League i'm worried about

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>>80943652
>>80949600
which is also the same place where Robin was shot (look at the shoulder)

>>80949096
Links

Thematic Stuff
>>80921485
>>80919785
>>80919886

>>80944213
this is a really bad break down of someone trying to force logic into lex's character

>>80949632
from what i remember little kid bruce is stuck at the bottom of the well, and a swarm of bats fly out, leaving behind a giant, red eyed bat encompassed in darkness

>>80949674
Same. I think after the negetive criticism their hands where forced which is a shame

>>80948786
Luthor wants to be superman, he want sto be the leader of humanity. He thinks superman and the justice league are in the way of his plans for humanity.

>>80949535
probably something to do with the sublimation of negative emotions and how they eat him away, his guilt over not saving martha
which leads into
>>80949607
the filmmakers have very clearly stated that batman is the true man, with bruce wayne being the disguise, we even see this in the movie, especially at lex's party

>>80949653
that has always been my theory personally. Lex starts as his original mad scientist incarnation and grows into bald, collected Lex by the end of BvS.
Superman starts as more unsure of himself, more prone to mistakes, and not even able to fly like his Golden Age incarnation (the truck scene is even a direct reference to Action Comics #1) and grows into the icon he has become (going through the same broadstrokes of character evolution as his comic counter part)
Batman starts in the DCEU using guns and being violent like he did in the comics (and Snyder combines this with his most popular incarnation, The Dark Knight Return version) and grows to be more heroic again, and more of a team player, in the same way comics Batman has over the years.

>>80949769
hopefully the final film will encompass more stuff like the horse shot in the beginning

>>80949674
>>80949769
we'll know come november if the dream is dead boys
or, they'll have sublimated the masses in some meta way that'll take us another year to figure out

>>80949754
ah yes, another sequence Snyder references and then turns on its head (like he does with a lot of scenes from The Dark Knight Returns). I think its part of his taking elements from DKR, a deconstruction, and flipping it around to reconstruct the classic superhero archtype.

>>80949607
thats a good detail i didnt notice

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The painting that Lex uses as a metaphor for Superman (demons come from the sky) has the symbol for Orion (one of DC's New Gods) on the bottom (the black hole sun).


At the end the painting is flipped, angels coming from Earth and Demons coming from the sky. This actually is foretelling the JL movie. The heroes will come from the earth, Superman will literally rise from the earth, and the evil demonites will come from the sky.

>>80949689
This thread has a lot of my observations in it.

http://archive.4plebs.org/tv/thread/80716512/#80722526

>>80949653
The thing that I'm still disappointed about is that I was really excited about the Eisenberg Lex.

The whole tech-wiz, info-age (Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg) template seemed like such an obvious and amazing new way to present the character. I thought all that nebbishy numale awkwardness would play as a perfect disguise for a criminal genius.

> And then I saw the movie and realized it wasn't a disguise.

>>80949915
A lot of bruce's character was a subversion on the DKR bruce. Almost disappointing we didnt get to see at least one mutant.

>>80949689
you're on to some good shit, the bit on lies and the ways characters talk to each other in particular


your take on the skull even fits very well into the logical narrative, kryptonian society against free individuality and on top of the fundamentalist ting of the invasion, can also be extended to be anyone trying to seek total dominance over self and others
really hope *someone* out there is still collecting all this

>>80950004
yo! i figured out the meaning of the justice league movie, at least to an extent

>>80950123
i noticed the horse aspect way back when i saw the theatrical, very good spotting on the statues though

>>80950296
go on

>>80950130
As does this one

http://archive.4plebs.org/tv/thread/80932389/#80938642

I'm going to repost some recent ones that I'm particularly proud of.

>>80950123
also the bottom right is a direct reference to The Seventh Seal

>>80950004
WTF

up to this day i'm still discovering new things about BvS

What kind of man are you Snyder?

>>80950160
Oh no. It's very much a veneer. The cold sociopath is in there. He lets the mask drop a couple of times during BvS, and now that he's been outed as a criminal, it will serve him no more purpose.

I have some hope that he's in Arkham right now, pumping iron and preaching the Dark Gospel.

>>80950386
give some credit to Terrio too

>>80950336
there's a direct throughline between all the logos from man of steel to justice league


i'm trying to edit some thing to connect the dots, and someone else can build on it and important dialogue and anything else i missed

>>80950542
#fuckmaxlandis #hacklandis

>>80950574
Is that wasteland the lake between Gotham and Metropolis?

>>80950198
Thanks! I'm pleased that you think so.

I unabashedly love these movies.

>>80950542
cool

>>80950624
yeah, when he's first stepping out the mansion is visible behind him in the distance

>>80950613
What did he do?

>>80950143
holy shit

>>80950386
>>80950489

Oh, absolutely. I'm just thankful that these movies even got made. I doubt we'll see their like again.

Against all odds, a crew of honest-to-god geniuses got together and made a gigantic blockbuster that was actually aimed at real fans. It's like some sort of miracle in its own right.

>>80950626
what am i looking for here

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>>80950047
You forgot this one

>>80950667
"zack snyder fundamentally changed batman's origin by making thomas make a fist"

seriously the type of person i hate the most

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>>80950542
my favourite part about BvS.

Snyder's homage is amazing, pays respect to the source material.

Meanwhile Marvel just puts a scene without understanding the logic behind it

>>80950660
And I'm fairly certain that what he emerges from is the exposed upper levels of the Batcave after something scoured away the earth above it.

Something I've always been curious about in the Knightmare - those structures in the sky, Is Apakolips encapsulating earth?

>>80950861
>one picture is shows what their personal war has done
>the other is a cool shot, couldn't even have been fucked to put bucky in there

>>80950836
it better then that dude, check out the first ever telling of Batman's origin, he does the exact same thing.

>>80950941
there's speculation that the same structures are in the justice league trailer, and are connected to parademon manufacture


i don't know, but that's what some depictions of apokalips are, but it would fit into the set up of darkside being some thing "out there" that descends and consumes the earth

>>80950861
what a fucking failure
>suit not tattered
>helmet is on
>no spidey lying in the foreground or other heroes

jfc marvel directors are lazy piece of shits. this one actually makes me mad

>>80951007
bro, zack doesn't understand these characters, the fact that he's drawn more from the totality of their comic history more than any other director doesn't count for anything

>>80951135
>doesn't understand
>creates a modern adaptation of what could literally happen when an alien god is present in a post 9/11 society
>doesn't understand

>>80948296
>Its weird, with the JL trailer /co/ has become a shithole
I thought they always hated these DC movies?

>>80950346
Gonna try to condense this down into a couple of posts:

Long story short - Bruce didn't really want to kill Clark, not deep down where it counts.

Specifically, I think that Bruce was at war with himself. His dreams point to it, and even his choice of weapon points to it. This came to me as a result of someone asking:

"Why not a kryptonite bullet?"

I couldn't let that go until I came up with a reason that satisfied me, and I did. It can't be Bruce's famous aversion to guns. He's shown being too comfortable with them here for that to figure in, so there had to be a different reason. For a long time, I thought it might have something to do with the composition of kryptonite and it just being too difficult to machine into anything but a crude spear. While that may be true, there might be an even deeper reason:

Unconsciously, Bruce already knows that Superman is on "the side of the angels." His dream of the crypt hints at both that and that his unconscious mind was warning him that he was letting his obsessions consume him.

So what does Bruce do? He makes a weapon that makes him kill his foe face to face instead of from a distance where it would be nice and detached, No, he forced himself to walk right up to the man and look him in the eye as he killed him, and predictably, he balked at cold-blooded murder, proving that even the Batman at his most obsessed isn't capable of cold-blooded, premeditated murder.

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>>80948296
>has become a shithole

KEK

It was really stupid that he killed the hot asian girl for basically no reason.

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Did anyone catch this

>>80951190
think the other anon was joking famalam

>>80951135
t. brainlet

>>80951135
>>80951190
>>80951354
>they'd totally get what i was saying if i was saying it in person... ha...haha...

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>>80951240

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZixa5LDmGk

Watch him turn his back on the Angel and be bitten by the Man-Bat.

He was conflicted over the loss of life in Metropolis. He needed someone to blame, and Superman was the only target left standing. Bruce wars with his obsession for vengeance.

Alfred's comments the morning of his dream hint at it, too. The Bat isn't subtle. It's brutal, intimidating, driven, and thinks only of vengeance, The man is reason and morality, which temper that lust for vengeance into something more noble,

Justice.

And for anyone who doubts that was the message of Bruce's dream, pic related is the Archangel Michael in his iconic pose. Now go try to find a single Renaissance depiction of him with coal black hair.

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>more and more people are hoping on the snyder train every day

>>80951446
sorry f-am i'm just so used of people bashing snyder in this threads

>>80951473
It's because of these things that I'm coming to believe that Bruce would have heard his mother's name no matter what Clark actually said. In fact, there's reason to believe that Clark actually said "My mother." Watch the scene. That's not just fear on Clark's face. There's confusion there as well. Sure, the confusion might just be him reacting to Bruce's meltdown, but still . . .

I've half-convinced myself that when Clark comes back, he's going to offhandedly refer to Bruce as a psychic, because he somehow already knew Clark's mother's name was Martha.

>>80950168
>RC's face
>when you bust a nut and she keeps sucking

>>80950485
>pumping iron
Please God let this be a reality

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>>80951337
Hell yeah, I loved that bit.

I'm still trying to decide if the reverse shot of Bruce represents their respective viewpoints. That picture, while being symbolic of pointless strife between men, is also black and white, while Bruce is framed with the rear fender of a motorcycle that looks very much like a batwing dipped in blood.

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>>80940240
>The only way to redeem this character is if his daddy did something truly horribly to him and it drove him nuts.

Didn't he basically say exactly that on the roof?

>>80951068

I need to go watch the trailer again. Every time I see the Bat-Mech, I faint from sheer joy. Maybe soon I'll make it all the way through.

>>80951097
To be fair disney-marvel has a hundred movies lined up, and you can't make those movies if your stars are dead-though it would have been cool if they decided against having dedicated actors for each hero in order to showcase the multiple timeline thing that I've seen in the comics, but maybe the audiences are too dumb to be able totell the difference.

>>80939774
easy. it wasn't lex luther. it was lex luther jr you jew

>>80950815
just the headlines showing all the cool shit Superman has done

>>80941850

This scene was fucking GOAT.

>>80951240
the lack of kryptonite bullet is pretty easily explained with the composition, its very brittle in the DCEU and would likely just shatter if a bullet. But still good analysis.

>>80939774
I'm probably the only one, but I thought he was the best performance in the movie. Everyone else was so bland and lifeless that Eisenberg's over the top performance was at least someone trying to do something, even if it was hamming it up.

>>80950626
>>80950815

Not the guy who posted the pic, but a take-away I had from that scene was the subtle clue that Superman hasn't quite struck the right tone with the public yet. I base this off the following headline:

"Superman Saves Starving Homeless Man Camping in Forest"

I freely admit that I could be overthinking this, but I believe that clip is there to tell us that Clark's not inspiring hope and heroism in people yet. If he were, things would have never gotten so bad for a man to be starving in the woods.

His fellow man would be looking out for him.

>>80939774
Turning Lex Luthor into Woody Allen was a genius move. Oh wait it wasn't.

>>80952896
Oh I'm right there with you. Battfleck was perfect, Cavill was, as always, way better than anyone ever even gives him credit for, but Eisenberg was fantastic.

True, villains are always more dynamic and I'd imagine it's tons of fun playing one, but all that aside, Eisenberg really just did a hell of a job.

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I'M BACK

THE MEANING OF JUSTICE LEAGUE

CITATION: (fuck collider)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45h73pDutBk

[spoilers]ironically enough, we back up our musings more than the detractors[/spoilers]

MOS: the birth of the concept of hope, the idea that every person can be a force for good
BVS:dense as fuck, but the gist of it is the that this hope becomes an inner value, not for someone to come down from above and pull us up, but for us to *INSERT BRUCE'S LAST WORDS*
JL: from bvs we see that the symbol of the bat now carries the symbol of hope within it, and with that hope bruce wayne sets out to find the others.
hope now is a communal expression by and for each other


the painting connects to the above/below angel/devil righteousness/evil throughout bvs, and specifically to the dirt rising at the end of bvs and lex's dialogue about the stars

the painting and the last scene imply the idea of earth, or life in general here being a sort of light in the darkness, and what is at the center of the justice league logo? what is this logo shaped like?

>>80939774
Is that his real hair or a wig?

What is that hairstyle called?

>>80953183
thats pretty good

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>>80948352
If ignorance is bliss then death truly is paradise.

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>>80951312

In the director's cut there's a wordless scene where Lex gets the kryptonite, she looks at him and smiles like
>We did it Lex :3
and he just stares back at her with a very slight scowl.

It's just my interpretation but I think he killed her because she thought she was close to him and he's that much of a psycho that he hates that.

>>80953940
he literally kills mercy at the senate


in that same scene bruce has one named grace

>>80953183
>we back up our musings more than the detractors

That just means you put a lot more work into trying to justify claims the movies aren't shit. When its readily apparent they are shit.

>>80953834

Kavalier and Clay movie WHEN?

>>80952896
the problem is he was so jittery and clearly unstable, but people fell over themselves to allow him access to world-ending technology.

So his performance is wasted.

>>80953997
fine, but the meaning people find is there regardless

>>80951224
They do, its just that /co/ is easily baited by snyderfags

>>80954092
You can find meaning in anything if you think about it hard enough.

>>80953183
So basically, the message isn't that Superman is the angel that rises, or even that it's the League itself.

It's us?

All of us are the angels?

>>80953971
Oh holy shit.

I've always equated Senator Finch with being Lex's reason, so in the bombing he murders his Mercy and Reason, but I never caught Bruce crying out for Grace.

That's beautiful. I'm starting to think I'll never not learn something new from this movie.

I would have cast someone else. Lex should be a tough alpha chad.

That said, he grew on me. If you paid attention, you see how he evolved from an edgy shitlord to an absolute madman. Bombing that building how he did, controlling Superman somewhat, 5D chess with Batman, etc. The mindgames were next level kino. His character development throughout the movie was well done. My main issue, again is he is a scrawny little fuck with a bitch boy voice. He should have bulked up a bit and gone with a deeper voice. Had he done that, I'd have zero issues with him. I guess Snyder wanted Lex to look like a comic book Zuckerberg.

>>80953183
>what is at the center of the justice league logo? what is this logo shaped like?

Diana's star?

Lex in the film reflects the intentions of the creation of the classic lex done under a modern society. It makes perfect sense for his character to be like that in 2016

>>80954470
"if you seek his monument look around you"

>>80954677
whatever the light side of the painting is supposed to represent, which when coupled with the dirt, or earth literally rising up pretty much means humanity or all of life

>>80954573
Sorry, who is grace?

>>80954620
>I guess Snyder wanted Lex to look like a comic book Zuckerberg.
or a weaselly jew

>>80946855
It was Martha's

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>>80941850
Snyder's just fellating himself here, that's basically a watered down version of something Epicurus said.
this version of Lex is literally an edgy teen atheist.

>>80959251
That's what I hate the most about this film. It has a definite vision, which sets it apart from the majority of capeflicks, but it's the stupidest vision of all time.

>>80959289
Exactly. And thats why the '78 Superman is still the best one. When Hackman's Lex said he was "THE GREATEST CRIMINAL MASTERMIND OF ALL TIME" he actually had the chops to back that shit up. That version of Superman actually had to break the laws of physics and his father's imposed rules to undo what Luthor did.

>>80954620
>I would have cast someone else. Lex should be a tough alpha chad.

But Lex has always been a beta nerd.

>>80959392
a beta nerd compared to fucking superman, yeah. Dude was always jacked though.
fairly recently he survived his entire tower falling on him.

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>>80959392
>But Lex has always been a beta nerd.

Say that again bitch

>>80959251
you'd have a point if it wasn't irrelevant

>>80959486
>Dude was always jacked though.

No, he wasn't. He was originally a nebbish ginger.

>>80960291
>>80959486
also in the 80s he was fat as fuck.

>>80950542
The gun actually catching on the pearl necklace and breaking it was fucking beautiful

>>80949388
Me too.

Lex is fantastic

>>80959486
>Dude was always jacked though.

No. Fuck off

>>80952420
Yeah but there are people in this thread that either (a) didn't hear that or (b) refuse to believe he meant it.

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>>80939774
This is without value doubt the worst BvSpost imo. Can anyone of you guys convince me why I'm wrong?

>>80939774
Seconded. Lex is character with big build and is smarter than Bruce Wayne. This failed character was more joker than Lex. How did they fell so far from the real character?

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BvS was really good

>>80947891
>makes a Tarot allegory with a symmetrical design around it
>shoots it in a fucking ~10 degree angle fucking up the scene composition to make it look like absolute diarrhea
why are DC movies so fucking ugly?

>>80941850
I love the part when the senator tells lex she's blocking the import license and lex goes full serious mode. That was quite sinister actaully

>>80956454
It's not a who, it's a what in this case. In essence, grace is divine intervention that you can't possibly be good and pure enough to deserve.

At the moment Lex murders mercy and reason, Bruce cries out for grace.

>>80949863
That's a really good observation.

To add to it, Bruce's characterization also works doubly as a callback to the earlier masked vigilantes of pulp fiction that predate comics heroes as well as commentary on the ultra-violent heroes of the 90s, making his antipathy towards Superman and Bruce's talk of legacy a comics history lesson of sorts, representing the time when the superhero eclipsed their earlier pulp counterparts, as well as making Clark's death the necessary sacrifice it takes to elevate a grim, gritty, "realistic" world filled with morally ambiguous "heroes"("No one stays good in this world") back into a truly comic-book world.

So at long last, there's the only manner in which Clark actually is a Jesus figure - he's the hero too good for this world who dies for the sins of comics fans - an on-point commentary on how by embracing darker, more realistic heroes, we collectively killed Superman.

And who was ultimately responsible for his "death" in the plot? Well, Lex, of course, geeky bookish Lex. Casting Eisenberg was no arbitrary decision. Lex always represents what we either hate or fear about our own society, but this one also incorporates qualities the fans hate about themselves.

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>>80955961
No words. They should have sent a poet.

And apparently, they did.

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>>80962960
Bruce is essentially Superman's Paul the Apostle.

For those who don't know, Paul was, before his conversion, one of the chief persecutors of early Christians who was struck blind on the road to Damascus and upon his miraculous healing, converted to Christianity and became the church's most vocal and zealous advocate.

In the movie, Bruce's blindness is metaphorical, the miraculous vision he witnesses is the Flash, and his healing occurs upon witnessing Clark's heroic sacrifice.

No he goes out to preach Clark's gospel to the others.

>>80953183
damn he's so positive about it all despite all the shitty liberal critics against him.

good on him.

>>80964166
Snyder is bulletproof just like his fans.

>>80939774
Worst Lex Luthor, best Live Action Joker.

The character was written like Lex (he had so many amazing lines)

But they cast the character wrong, and Eisenberg didn't play him like Lex.

Should have gotten someone like Bryan Cranston, or gotten Kevin Spacey again.

>>80964669
This.

>>80939774
Lex is a despicable person, though. Making Lex admirable or charismatic, even for the sake of satire, misses the point. He is a pathetic little man who wastes his intelligence and wealth on hating and sabotaging a dude who helps people.

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Lex was amazing, Superman was whoreson, Batman was amazing, Gal Gadot as Wonderwoman is terrible, her accent is retarded, but Wonderwoman itself - cant say much, everything else is fine.

MOST OF YOU ARE PATHETIC BRAINLETS BTW. ESPECIALLY THAT RETARD >>80941617

The Sword of Alexander

"It's a fake, you know. The real one was sold in 1998 and now hangs above the bed of-"

"The Sultan of Hajar."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_in_comics

This stuck out to me.

"Toy Biz buys Marvel Comics"

We must dig deeper.

>>80965314

Along with Israeli-American Toy Biz co-owner Isaac Perlmutter, Avi Arad came into conflict with Carl Icahn and Ron Perelman over control of Marvel Comics in the wake of its 1996 bankruptcy. In the end, Arad and Perlmutter came out on top, with Toy Biz taking over Marvel Comics in a complicated deal that included obtaining the rights to Spider-Man and other superheroes that Marvel had sold earlier. He was involved in Marvel's emergence from bankruptcy and the expansion of the company's profile through licensing and movies.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avi_Arad

"Complicated deal." Like a knot that can not be untied.