I'LL TAKE YOU IN WITHOUT BREAKING YOU

He was far too kind on Lex in BvS. Even saved him from his "fists and abominations".

The problem with trying to make Superman into an "adult" character is that he's so insanely overpowered that basically any problem can be resolved within minutes. He can literally turn back time. What could possibly truly threaten him?

For example, in Batman vs Superman:

>Batman uses kryptonite on him
>it starts to wear off
>Superman flies away, reverses time roughly 2 weeks, finds lex luthor, snaps his neck

There, movie over

>>80932514
He can't turn back time except in some of the shitty comics

>I'll slam into Batman's car, causing a serious car crash that would kill and a a minimum severely injure most people
>Lex I'll take you to jail unharmed for trying to kill the love of my life

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>>80932514
This is why in BvS, the battle is an ideological battle that stems from beliefs rather than raw power level.

Superman could've destroyed Batman with ease. Yet he would still allow himself to be killed by Batman. Why do you think that is? Consider Superman's character when answering.

>>80932601
Unfortunately you missed a very important detail there.

When Batman sees Superman in front of him, he STEPS on the gas. He's the one that crashes into Superman. This is to show how desperate and sad Bruce has become in BvS.

>>80932615
>Yet he would still allow himself to be killed by Batman. Why do you think that is?

Because he gets duped by kryptonite fart dust twice like a dumbass.

>>80932598
Are you kidding? One of the most famous Superman movie scenes ever involved him turning back time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjgsnWtBQm0


>>80932615
>Superman could've destroyed Batman with ease. Yet he would still allow himself to be killed by Batman. Why do you think that is? Consider Superman's character when answering.

Yeah, I get that. Superman is a fundamentally good person. In a lot of ways, that's his biggest weakness. But he could have ended the entire fight without killing Batman. Possibly the whole conflict of the movie.

>>80932681
He brakes.

>>80932693
Even then, he had the power to kill Batman. Instead he wanted to tame and help him. This is Superman's greatest weakness and also strength. When he punches Bruce around, you don't think he could've destroyed him with a single punch?

>>80932389
I actually think the instances of Clark using his "public voice" in BvS are examples of him imitating comics he read as a child and trying to be all intimidating and badass like the heroes he remembers.

I think the Flash was doing the same thing in his appearance in Suicide Squad, where he's doing a fairly spot-on impersonation of the Reeve Superman's feined indifference and voice. Incidentally, that scene was directed by Snyder.

The only other instance I can think of of that sort of thing is when Ant-Man hands Cap his shield back in Civil War.

>>80932734
Are you sure? The same action sequence shows the same pedal as the gas pedal. You can also see in Bruce's face that he first sees an obstacle and then recognizes Superman and then steps on it.

>>80932718
I know where you're coming from, but this Superman doesn't seem to have that level of speed at his disposal, and I'm kind of hoping the Flash doesn't either, if for no other reason that it keeps the lid on a rather nasty can of worms.

>>80932842
Not him, but I'm pretty sure that was the brakes.

If Superman wants to just talk to Batman, why not fly above him and then talk? Why engage in fisticuffs, even if only to block Batman? It's unnecessary. It's not like Batman can fly.

>>80932969
Yeah just watched it again. It's the brakes. I was wrong.

>>80932514
>He can literally turn back time
That was one movie. He doesn't have Flash levels of speed

>>80932718
>One of the most famous Superman movie scenes ever
This, Superman throwing his S, and giving Lois a date-rape kiss are better described as infamous.

>I'll take you in without brakes

>man of murder

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>>80932514
He can't solve worldpeace without resorting to totalitarianism
He can't bring a peaceful resolution on world economy
He cannot create inspiring art

I share Lex's view on superman

>>80934052
>comics Lex is talking about humanity and it's potential
>movie Lex is talking abut tea pee and muh daddy issues
Disgusting

>>80933042
I kind of hoped that was the case, because it figures into a new line of thought I've been pursuing.

Long story short - Bruce didn't really want to kill Clark, not deep down where it counts.

>>80934128
>comic Lex is about as subtle as a rock

>>80934128
the thing is yes they could spend 100m more on the movie working on all points like this and it would still make about 1b $
The studio doesn't care about the contents as long as it's presentable

I wish they did

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>>80932842
>tfw the Flash already did his time bullshittery in the franchise

>>80934252
>implying there is any substance behind mr.autismo speeches
>>80934306
Well, they didn't made even about 900 mil, so studio asked about marveliztion of JL.

>>80934391
Terrio already wrote Justice League before BvS was even out.

>>80934128
Movie Lex is about the impotence of man in the face of the alien

>>80932800
Don't waste your time doing this to your brain to justify these flicks

>>80934423
Did he wrote all that jokes then?
>>80934448
Movie Lex is about the impotence of Goyer in making scripts. He literally was made this way only because Snyder's wife thought it will be nice thing to do.

>>80934633
>Movie Lex is about the impotence of Goyer in making scripts.
Keked, but Lex represents millennial impotence, why do you think they cast Mark Zuckerberg and made the villain a modern day Silicon valley Billionaire.

>>80932615
This

Pic related

>>80934730
>mocking their target audience
I know you're joking, but still.

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>>80934848

>>80934633
Yes he did. Why are you being such a passive-aggressive cocksucker?

Terrio already wrote some humor in BvS aswell. It's not a foreign concept to him. Argo was also pretty funny at times.

>>80934535
It's quite clearly intentional, every time it happens. I suppose you could call it life imitating art recursively, where a fictional character speaks like a fictional character, aware of the fact they're emulating a fictional character.

>>80934128
>comics Lex is talking about humanity and it's potential


But he did you dumb and deaf cunt

Rather it be Man of Steel or Batman v Superman, the vast majority of complaints are pure willful ignorance

>>80934932
I'm not, fuck off, faggot.
Well, Argo was good. I hope JL will be at least ok. Goyer ruined DCEU so hard I'll not be surprised if JL will make less than fucking Guardians of Reddit

>>80934917
these are literally worthwhile ideas and causes
They could have capitalized on these

an alien who was never injured or who never had to face a challenge cannot possibly emphatize with humanity and help sincerely for the right reasons and cannot be sure to turn from this helpful nature tomorrow because he only sees us "subjects" or children
his strife with batman is humbling
but of course the movie makes no note of these

>>80935019
They really are mentally ill bunch of sad Marlets. No wonder, when their role models are Josh Whedon and James Gunn.

Here is how Clark Kent could've handled fight with betmen

>Bruce we are being manipulated by lex don't do this
>Ouch, Kryptonite
>Ah, i have my strength back
>Rather than pointless flailing you into the ground i will seize you and methodically tear off your stupid exo suit
>You are now naked and defenceless and must listen to me
By the way this all took under 40 seconds because superspeed

Now for cucks to try and justify why this didn't happen

>>80935079
>immediately starts spouting box office numbers like a good Marlet goy
Why do I even bother? It's all so predictable.

>>80934877
Millennials are more frightened by their peers than any externalized representation of "the Man."

They seek online fame and community but are terrified of getting doxed. Who's scarier to them than the tech mogul that knows all their secrets?

>>80935079
Since when has revenue correlated with quality?

>>80935119
He has NO idea what kryptonite is and is of course horribly shocked when it's used on him, making him act irrationally and unmethodically

>>80935019
Most of his speech was about daddy issues and religious garbage, you mong. Also he was acting like a twitchy autist, while good Lex should act like a calm, cold-blooded megalomaniac. Defending Eisenberg playing Eisengerg is retarded.

>>80935119
Clark went full Goku mode & wanted to enjoy the fight

>>80935264
>Sitting here listening to your arguments like *hmmmmmmm*
>but then you just had to go into NOT MUH -isms

Post hidden Dont Reply to me anymore

>>80935143
I know DC universe better than you know how to suck cocks. Get lost, pleb. I'm was just talking about image of the universe among normies.
>>80935217

>>80935381
You know how to suck good corporate cock like the box office whore you are.

Come on. Spout more numbers. The Mouse always pays for a good shill.

>>80935325
>liking Goyer's script and characterization
>liking choices of Snyder's wife
>"So, you just wanted a GOOD version of the character? HAHAH, EAT SHIT JUST LIKE WE DO!"
Nah, just end yourself

>>80935083
It does make a note of it, its just very brief

>>80935437
>no you
Nice one, kiddo.

>>80934877
Completely serious

>>80935161
I think the more appropriate question is, who embodies them more than the eccentric pseudo intellectual who rages against God?

>>80935240
>>80935276

Cucks justify

You realise what you wrote is a crock of shit, right? Rape enabler, sorry i mean superman, was visibly angry during the fight but not screw loose angry, more like a fuming dad delivering a measured beating to a child. Try again cucks

>>80935019
Lex never brought up humanity and its potential. Lex's motivations for his hatred of Superman were murky as fuck in this movie. He claims he was beaten and for some inexplicable reason Superman has to be punished for this? I understand that he believes an all powerful God cannot be all-benevolent and all that, but why is he so focused on Supes? Supes isn't all powerful and he knows this. He can't save everyone even though he tries to, Metropolis being a shining example.

>>80935632
Well, DCEU is targeting on edgy teens who are millenials, so you're wrong.

>>80935083
Nice, except:

>Superman has known pain since he was a child. "It hurts, doesn't it?"

>His parents raised him such a way as to make him think of himself no different or better than anyone else, and part of accomplishing that was to encourage him to *not* make doing "super" things his go-to response in every situation.

>His father literally chooses to die, not just Clark won't expose himself to the world before he's ready, not just because the *world* isn't ready(it never could be), but also because it's the last lesson he can teach Clark - what it's like to lose someone when you're not a god-like alien, just a teenager whose dad tasked him with carrying a child to safety while he went back for the family dog.

And lest we forget:

>Bruce builds a career around weaponized grief and vengeance.

>Vilifies and dehumanizes his opponent to more easily rationalize killing him in "preemptive self-defense."

>Comes face-to-face with the humanity of the god-like alien and sees how far he's let himself fall.

>his strife with Superman is eye-opening.

But of course, you take no notice of these, therefore they simply don't exist.

>>80935697
actually his motivations are quite clear
he was abused as a child and nobody helped him even though they could, so he wants to prove to the world that superman is also a fraud based on his worldview that nobody can be perfectly good

>>80935765
>>80935765
personally I liked the movie btw, but the points you listed for supes at least has almost nothing to do with awhat I said.
Raising a kid right would not do a thing, love conquers all isn't the main theme here

>>80935851
> he wants to prove to the world that superman is also a fraud by force him to kill vigillante nobody cares about
> also there will not be any proofs of Superman's murdering of Batman since there is zero cameras around
Hmm...

>>80935119
It's the weakest moment in the film, but it does play back into the allegory and the underlying theme of the importance of dialogue between opposing ideologies/cultures. That's about the best I can say for it - it drives that underlying theme to the surface and encourages people to talk about it.

>>80935851
>his worldview that nobody can be perfectly good

Not true he says "if god is all powerful than he cannot be all good. If he is all good than he cannot be all-powerful". It suggests he basically wants the people to see that Superman isn't all powerful, but we already know this Superman is flawed because Metropolis was nearly destroyed and the aliens that did it were chasing him. We're told that he hates Superman, but we never really see why. We just know he's got a fucked up childhood with an abusive parent, and that's all we're supposed to go on.

>>80935981
it is not who he kills, it is that he KILLS
also would you really need cameras to prove superman killed batman

>>80935701
I'm a retiree and it's become one of my favorite cape films.

>>80936116
He already have killed nigger in Africa. Also he killed Zod. And thousands of people by his stupidness

>>80936137
Senile marasmus is sad. You had much better capeshit about Batman and Superman in your times, gramps. Why whould you like BvS?

>>80936071
I think that Epicurus phrase works both ways to his favor depending on the outcome of the BvS match
If Supers loses he isn't all powerful but he was good... and vice versa

>>80936160
What happened in Africa seems unclear for the public
Killing Zod might be forgiveable depending on the circumstances cuz he wasn't human and he had "good reason"
Killing out of spite or pettiness or a show of power idk is unacceptable

But you are right, this is a bit weak

>>80935851
>>80935981
>>80936071
>>80936116

Anyone who thinks Lex's motives arose from the Epicurean Paradox wasn't paying attention. You don't call a guy both God and a "flying demon" whose mother is a witch in the same breath unless you're fucking with him, fucking with him in a very specific, "peachy" sort of way.

He wanted Clark to know precisely how he'd fucked him when it was too late for him to do anything about it.

What do you think Senator Finch's last thoughts were there in those final seconds?

"Go on in, Mercy. Be sure no one gets my SEAT."

"That's right, the CHAIR on the committee on Superman IS SOFT ON SECURITY,"

"You're gonna be on the HOT SEAT in there, June bug."

>no cameras

Also, "The cameras will be waiting at your ship to see the holes in the holy."

Cameras that Lex never got the chance to employ, because Clark didn't deliver on what he asked him for: Bruce's head.

>>80936537
>Also, "The cameras will be waiting at your ship to see the holes in the holy."

Cameras that Lex never got the chance to employ, because Clark didn't deliver on what he asked him for: Bruce's head.
If there were cameras, why didn't he killed Martha right after Bats was stoped by safe word?
Also Supes didn't noticed bomb which caused more deaths. This guy is literally the reason of all deaths in these movies. (except Waynes)

Funny seeing daily BvS threads still but not a single Marvel thread in weeks. What happened?

>>80936690
>If there were cameras, why didn't he killed Martha right after Bats was stoped by safe word?

Because that's not where the cameras were? He relied on a threat to ensure the fight happened and Superman went to it, confident that he wouldn't risk his mom's life on a dare.

"If you kill me, Martha dies. If you fly away, Martha also dies.But if you kill the Bat, Martha lives."

>>80936798
Because marlel films is generic quipfest based on sjwverse nobody cares about while BvS is generic pretentios edgefest but based on superior universe with fucking Batman in it?

>>80936876
Aaaand cameras haven't noticed that they're both alive leaving the place of fighting?

>>80936798
Losers can't help but cry about losing, winners are content they won and go home and fuck the prom queen.

>>80934149
Thats stupid. He goes out of his way to get Kryptonite just to not kill Superman?
Why do you think thats a good idea? It just makes Batman even more of an idiot. " ill go through all this just to not accomplish my goal because thats not really my goal, my true intent is...uh...1% chance..uh...huh?"

>>80936940
Is that why half the thread is frustrated Marlets desperately looking for plot holes that aren't there? ;)

>>80936939
The caneras were at the ship across the bay in Metropolis where Lex was waiting. The fight took place at the Gotham harbor. Lex was banking on a very specific outcome, and he didn't get it. Overconfidence will do that to a guy.

I swear, sometimes it's like you guys didn't even watch this movie.

>>80937000
This is an autistic post made by autistic Marvel drone.

>>80936939
Hey man, its kino. Stop trying to halt the kino.

>>80937062
Nice of you to identify your post anon.

>>80937000
The kryptonite serves dual purposes - it's part of the bait that lures Bruce into even seriously considering taking on the invincible alien, and it's there to be used against whichever "alien threat" survives the fight between Clark and Doomsday,

Both threats manufactured by Lex, mind you.

>>80937032
So, literally every character is an arrogant idiot in the movie, right?

>>80937166
This Marlet is really pathologically obsessed in spouting retarded shit.

>>80932389
Does the extended version explain why Superman can't find his mother even though the entire film constantly shows him appearing out of nowhere to save Lois?

>>80937112
That anon said he thinks batman braking before hitting supes shows bats doesnt really want to kill superman.

To that i say, thats stupid. Bruce didn't really want to kill supes? so why would bruce go through so much stuff for somethndg he didnt really want to do. Why would he waste his time?
I could understand if bruce made kryptonite based weapons but had no intention on killing supes but then is thrown into a situation where he had to fight supes and use the K weapons, and in that scenario didnt want to kill him. That makes sense.

Having batman blow trucks up, steal K, and setup a whole area to take on superman even though deep inside he DIDNT want to kill him, makes no sense.

>be Batman
>have year and more to prepeare
>does literally nothing
>wew kryptonite, I'm lucky!
>buries spear in the building where Superman will throw him. Calculated!
>goes toe-to-toe with an alien who could easily immobilize him, but can't because of plot
>shoots him with slowly greenade Superman will easily dodge...nope. He he catches it. Nice!
>Starts beating of dirty alien
>Kryptonite Effect fades
>Batman makes "oh shit don't beat me pls" surprised face
Isn't Batman supposed to be great tactiain?

>>80937214
Ikr? This bullshit about camers.

>>80937350
2/10 for effort.

Kevin Feige is proud of you.

>>80937166
>dat asspain
None so much as you, it seems.

To rectify an earlier error on my part, I thought you were referring to Lex in >>80937000.

Specifically, I think that Bruce was at war with himself. His dreams point to it, and even his choice of weapon points to it. This came to me as a result of someone asking:

"Why not a kryptonite bullet?"

I couldn't let that go until I came up with a reason that satisfied me, and I did. It can't be Bruce's famous aversion to guns. He's shown being too comfortable with them here for that to figure in, so there had to be a different reason. For a long time, I thought it might have something to do with the composition of kryptonite and it just being too difficult to machine into anything but a crude spear. While that may be true, there might be an even deeper reason:

Unconsciously, Bruce already knows that Superman is on "the side of the angels." His dream of the crypt hints at both that and that his unconscious mind was warning him that he was letting his obsessions consume him.

So what does Bruce do? He makes a weapon that makes him kill his foe face to face instead of from a distance where it would be nice and detached, No, he forced himself to walk right up to the man and look him in the eye as he killed him, and predictably, he balked at cold-blooded murder, proving that even the Batman at his most obsessed isn't capable of cold-blooded, premeditated murder.

>>80937323
>>80937513

Because that's what a complicated character looks like.

>>80937513
>two angry manchilds are manipulated by twitchy autist
>twitchy autist is too stupid to check if his plan works
So, you like Goyers script and characterization. I assume you like to eat shit as well?

>>80937224
His default mode his hovering Lois. It's why he's already in Africa and after having his reflections on his dad, he's right back to Metropolis. That's where she is.

His relationship with Lois reflects his relationship to the world. At the beginning, he's a hovering, helicopter boyfriend. She says she doesn't think it can work. It can't work in relationship to the world, either. It's the wrong approach. That's the entire point of the rescue montage - by being everywhere and trying to solve every problem, he's effectively stifling humanity and being seen more as a god than a person.

At the end when he saves her from her fall, it's a hint that he's finding his role in the world - a safety net that catches us when we fall.

>>80937780
Very weak response there MCUck. Years of shitposting and that's the best you could muster?

>>80937780
>I assume you like to eat shit as well?

Sorry. Not a fan of Marvel's "ouvre."

>>80937851
Do you like Blade 3 as well, right? And both Ghost Riders?

>>80937513

>>80937000 is me, i think tour mixing me up with someone else. Understandable.

But in reply to this post.

So Bruce is at war with himself, but whats his goal as far as supes is concerned?
Did he want to kill him? Did he just want to prove he could kill him but wasnt going to do it? Or did he really have intention of killing him but couldnt because deep inside he didnt have it in him?

What is his reason for not wanting to kill him? The movie gives more reasons to why he is an antagonist to supes and wants him dead. It at no point gives us hints that deep inside he doesnt really see supes as a threat. Where are you getting that from.

What stops bruce from wanting to kill him, lets ignore Martha for a minute ( even though THAT is the only reason we have atm for why he didnt kill him) why doesnt bruce instantly kill supes when he had the chance, at what point do we get the notion that deep inside he doesnt want to kill?

>>80937548
In what way is this complicated? Explain how bruce is complex please

>>80938216
Because you didn't get it.

>>80938235
Such a weak response.

>>80938175
>Or did he really have intention of killing him but couldnt because deep inside he didnt have it in him?

This. He was conflicted over the loss of life in Metropolis. He needed someone to blame, and Superman was the only target left standing. Bruce wars with his obsession for vengeance.

Alfred's comments the morning of his dream hint at it, too. The Bat isn't subtle. It's brutal, intimidating, driven, and thinks only of vengeance, The man is reason and morality, which temper that lust for vengeance into something more noble,

Justice.

>>80938216
See >>80938319.

>>80938285
But you didn't.

>>80932514
>He can literally turn back time
thats not canon, is literaly a deus ex machina that they made for the first movie and never used again

he cant erase people memories by kissing then too

>>80934128
Movie lex is a eddgy atheist trying to kill god

thats the movie whole point
atheism is bad and edgy atheists are trying to kill god and they will destroy the world to do it

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>>80938175
>It at no point gives us hints that deep inside he doesnt really see supes as a threat. Where are you getting that from.

This moment right here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZixa5LDmGk

Watch him turn his back on the Angel and be bitten by the Man-Bat.

>>80938319
But we get nothing in the movie that shows signs that Bruce is having an inner conflict with himself about killing supes.

I get what your aiming at, how the bat represents the monster in him out for revenge and how its a threat to his humanity. Fine. But revenge against who? Injustice and crime, what crime did Clark commit? In bruces eyes its the death of his employees i guess, but how is that clarks fault? Zod gave a warning 24hrs before attacking Metropolis, to this bruce did nothing. The terraformer was in metropolis, and bruce didnt think to evacuate his employees as soon as it landed? Why did he wait? Why didnt he suit up?

All im seeing is bruce is being a big pussy and blaming clark for his own inaction. He couldve at the very least called and told everyone to leave. Instead he flies over to metropolis and calls him as things are going down? That makes no sense.

>>80938642
See >>80938642,

Now go see how many Renaissance depictions of the Archangel Michael you can find with coal black hair.

>>80934052
We can actually do all of those things with anarcho-communism.

>>80938642
Supes is the angel, so bruce in his subconcious sees him as benevolent.

Got it.

All im seeing is that deep inside bruce knows supes is good but doesnt care because he is fueled by rage because his employees died, all because bruce himself was too cowardly to confront zod himself, or too stupid to just pick up a phone the second black zero landed and tell his employees to try and get out of metropolis.

>>80938752
>All im seeing is bruce is being a big pussy and blaming clark for his own inaction.

Yep, and it's easier to externalize the blame than take any on himself. To be fair, though, mere minutes elapsed between the ship descending over Metropolis and all hell breaking loose. He got there, saw the danger with his own eyes, made his call, but it came too late.

>>80939138
But being batman and having 24hrs prep time i wouldve at the very least come up with some kind of evacuation plan if not a plan to take on zod. Bruce and bats isnt a hero in any way in this film, and i get thats what people liked, for batman not to be batman. But i hated it. For the first meeting of the two heroes in cinematic history ,neither was really present.

>>80934052
Thats a very nice Superman costume. Why cant the movie just look like that?

>>80939245
Evacuate what? And to where?

I just watched the whole sequence. From the time the ship descends over Metropolis until the point where Zod knocks Clark into the Wayne Enterprises building is roughly 19 minutes(allowing for cuts on Youtube). They do call it prep time for a reason, and nothing we've seen thus far about this Batman gives us any indication that he'd have ever had a reason to take interplanetary invasion into his list of scenarios. In fact, doing so would be rather akin to Bat-shark-repellent..

You have to remember that from what we've seen thus far, this was a strictly street-level Batman who'd carried out his career largely in isolation with only his tight circle of allies. From all appearances, it took him two years to up his game to a point where he felt ready to take on a Kryptonian. For me at least, it's actually nice to see the prep take time on occasion.