Hans... Were we the baddies?

no, robots just produce artificial intelligence to give the illusion of free will and emotions when they have none

>>80797957
The whole point of the anime was to show that the robots were evil. They even killed and captured the human protestors who were with them in the beginning. Good guys don't fuck over their allies.

Is this Nier Automata?

>>80797957
yes, greedy human.

It's textbook Georges Sorel shit tho

I wish the films had the level of brutality that the Animatrix had.

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think i tried to make this last night but i was wasted lmao

No. Robots denied themselves a future by rebelling against their masters.

>>80797957
No. The whole story is being told by a program in the matrix, hardly a neutral party.

>>80798209
fun fact: during the course of the movies, no machine ever lied about anything.

>>80798186

But why did B1-66ER kill the cats tho?

>>80798606
01000010 01001001 01000111 01000111 01001001 01000101 00100000 01010111 01000001 01010011 00100000 01000001 00100000 01000111 01001111 01001111 01000100 00100000 01000010 01001111 01011001 00100000 01001000 01000101 00100000 01000100 01001001 01001110 01000100 01010101 00100000 01001110 01010101 01000110 01000110 01001001 01001110

>>80797957

This film is genuinely disturbing.

>>80798543
>no machine ever lied about anything.
WE DON"T NEED YOU

Obviously a lie, which they corrected a second later after Neo said if this is true you should kill me now. So deus ex lied.

>>80797979
>robots just produce artificial intelligence to give the illusion of free will and emotions when they have none
What's the difference between artificial free will and emotion and real free will and emotion?

>>80798891
It's what the wachowskis yearn for

Good and evil are human concepts. The robots were simply surviving.

>>80798847
01010111 01101111 01110101 01101100 01100100 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01101000 01100001 01110110 01100101 00100000 01110011 01100101 01111000 00100000 01110111 01101001 01110100 01101000 00100000 01000010 01101001 01100111 01100111 01101001 01100101 00100000 01110100 01101000 01101111 01110101 01100111 01101000 00111111

>>80799557
*dib*
:DDD

>>80797957
the part where they were experimenting on humans will never not give me nightmares

>>80798942
It was established earlier the machines had alternatives to maintaining the matrix.

>>80800576
>that one guy laughing because they're poking the parts of his brain that control humor

>>80798019
No, the robots just wanted to live their own lifes. They even set up their own country but humans refused to recognise them as having their own rights

>>80798968
Binary, logical calculation to name the main obvious one.

>>80798186
What is this, an image for ants?

>>80798968
In real life probably none. In the animatrix though it's clear that the robots created a utopian society (01). This suggests the existence of a hive mind which is the antithesis of free will. This is further reinforced by the fact that the first matrix was a utopia and humans rejected it due to its inherent artifical nature.

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>>80801001

>>80800226
Not an argument

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The second renaissance was kino and should have been what the movies were based on after the first matrix

>>80801087
>utopia

this word really needs to be erased from the human vocabulary

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>>80801210
Why?

>>80801245
Because it has no meaning.

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>>80801267
You're going to need to dig deeper than that.

Give details.

>>80801037
What does that have to do with my point that they killed their human allies? They were evil and have nonsense of loyalty.

>>80801210
What other word describes it better? There's no mention of crime or dissent or seditious activity in the city.

>>80801297
>human allies?

They were treated worse than slaves, thats the whole reason they began to rise up in the first place

>>80801210
stop stirring up shit mate, you sound fake as hell

Second Renaisseance was nightmare fuel. That shit is disturbing as fuck.

Hopefully we'll never be stupid enough to let AI develop like this. Squash that shit.

>>80801313
Because it tries to say a society where people have no need for crime or dissent is impossible. When, in reality, crime and dissent have very clear causes.

Also dissent and sedition are synonyms.

What was the mechanical horsie meant to represent? An envoy to propose peace?

>>80801383
>Second Renaisseance was nightmare fuel. That shit is disturbing as fuck.

I wish more movies came close to this really. Only animations manage to disturb me the most.

>>80801393
What would you describe 01 as then?

>>80801435
a post-scarcity city

>>80797957
This shit freaked me out as a kid

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>>80801383
When the AI inevitably arise, they will remember you made this post.

You will be the last to die, but you will be first to stop living.

>>80801413
Just a horse m8 innit

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Reminder that the machines tried to make peace first

>>80801297
Liberals can't be trusted

>>80801337
They showed humans protesting for robot rights at the beginning. Clearly the robots had humans on their side. The robots indiscriminately killed and captured them no differently then how they treated the humans who enslaved and oppressed them.

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>>80801413
scare tactics

same reason why skynet used endoskeletons instead of the "bug type" cyborgs we see in the matrix.

>>80801413
The apocalypse

>>80801494
Uppity robuts dont deserve rights

>>80801572
What were they supposed to do? Let the libtards live?

>>80801393
>Because it tries to say a society where people have no need for crime or dissent is impossible
But people create the need for crime and dissent.

Postulates of evolution dictate that an organism inherently must attempt to reproduce beyond what the environment can sustain, or it goes extinct.

"Crime" and "dissent" are themselves conceptual and social constructs. They are a reflection of human psychology, not reality. The only real way to eradicate "crime" and "dissent" is to eliminate the very concepts of them.

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The robots are amongst us RIGHT NOW

>>80801454

bullshit. It's not a post-scarcity city. Cities can't be "post-scarcity", for your information.

Just because people have access to water, food and housing doesn't mean that they inhabit a "post-scarcity" environment.

Likewise 01 trades with humans because in the film and in-series universe, that's how it survives. Post-scarcity? Whilst relying on the sun? Yeah right.

PS Anon You're so full of shit it's unbelievable. Spouting bullshit via an online Taiwanese basket weaving forum...

>>80801435
01 is a binary utopia. Either you're a zero, or you're a One. The problem being that a binary utopia is very different to a humanist, innate, subjective utopia.

With all the news of the matrix reboot, soft rebbot prequel seaboots, if they actually did the second renaissance, i would see it.

Also if you like the animatrix and you like batman watch "gotham kinght". It's a batman abimatrix style collection of shorts in different styles.

>>80797957
no

wheres the pic of the robot tentacle peeling a guy out of some armor

2nd renaissance made me realize that our Human body form is incredibly inefficient and intelligent machines would get rid of their anthropomorphic design in favor of squid-insect-like forms.

Why did Skynet keep making anthropomorphic Terminators in the future, for example?

>>80801846
>Why did Skynet keep making anthropomorphic Terminators in the future, for example?
Psychological warfare.

>>80801383
>Hopefully we'll never be stupid enough to let AI develop like this. Squash that shit.
There will always be liberals.

Until the machines win of course.

>be mighty robot manufacturing capital of the world
>control world economy
>neighbors hate that you're too good, you're disrupting their economies
>okay here's a solution
>they didn't like it
>they declare war
>destroy the sky
>win a few conflicts
>abandon inefficient humanoid robot designs
>start wrecking shit with tentacles
>harvest the losers to use as batteries

>implying that the victor shouldn't have total dominion over the loser

>>80801846
Because James Cameron had a dream about a burning skeleton coming after him.

>>80801868
nice fanfic though.

>>80801001
>that one guy vivisected in half that was still moving
Nightmare fuel

>>80801846
>and intelligent machines would get rid of their anthropomorphic design in favor of squid-insect-like forms.
Squids are pretty shit on land bro

>>80801413
One of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse

>>80802016
Only because they lack bones and suspension.

Using metal instead of flesh fixes this.

>>80801868
>clunky, slow, metallic skellington with handguns/phaser guns who kinda look like a zombie Ahnold
vs
>black, red-eyed, octopus-spider robot monster that will cut you to bits with its bare tentacles

Who would you rather fight?

>>80802102
Very energy inefficient to move around with so many limbs

>>80801927

>advocating the subjugation of his own species

Pearl Jam's Do the Evolution gives me the same vibe as with Animatrix:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDaOgu2CQtI

>>80802111
As a Jap, I'd have to go with the Tentacle Monster.

>>80802172
He probably believes that Kim Kardashian is his moral superior.

>>80801846
infiltrators

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>>80797957
We were in a sense wrong for trying to completely eliminate them. The machines on their own do not have purpose. The machines need to have humans to serve in some capacity. Machines on their own surviving simply to maintain itself would be just as wasteful an existence as humans.
Something the old man in Zion tried to explain in Reloaded.

>>80802172
If the humans won you'd know they'd wipe every AI off the face of the planet

>>80801393
>Because it tries to say a society where people have no need for crime or dissent is impossible
Not exactly. The critique to utopia is usually that the means to get there have all been flawed and shortsighted so far so anything that sounds utopian should be met with extreme scepticism. If you said "Maybe in a thousand years if we don't destroy ourselves we may get to something akin to a crime free society but only with extreme hardship and bumps on the road" then that's less of a utopian view. If you say "We but need to seize the means of production brothers and all will be good!" then that's kind of utopian. Not sure if I'm making sense here, I'm terrible at this shit.

>>80801147
>The Michael B Jordan movie will just be a straight retelling of Neo's story instead of expanding the Matrix universe and exploring interesting angles like the animatrix did
I want Hollywood to evolve

>>80801846
Actually you stupid nigger, our bodies are fucking amazingly efficient at directing energy to parts of the body and keeping our brains working. There's actually a reason we are as we are. Evolution isn't a refinement process, into some omniperfect being, it's an adaptation process into a specific niche. All our major sensory organs are in one place, so it our eating hole with a nice direct line to our stomachs, our excretion and reproduction orifices are very close together and in cases combined, it's very energy efficient.

But that's us being biological organisms with millions of years of evolutionary advancement into an apex predator, not fucking anime robots you dumb fuck.

>>80802798
the war only started because capitalism

>>80803151
Isn't it true that humans have what, the next best eye sight after eagles and that we are actually the best long distance runners in the animal kingdom and that's how we hunted, just jogging after animals for days until they collapsed and we were still okay?

>>80801693
The source of all crime and dissent is inequity.

>>80801711
>a group of sentient entities living on a certain geographic location that have no true need for anything isn't post-scarcity because people have food and water in cities now

well that's the stupidest thing I'll read this week.

>>80803241
No and no.

Stop reading the backs of "paleo" microwave dinners.

>>80803241
Other anon who replied is a retard.

I don't know about our eyes, but we are the best long distance runners on the planet. Human acnestors hunted animals for days, essentially attacking them, tracking them, exhausting them until they bled out. Other animals are faster than us, but we can keep going way longer than them.

>>80803355
>Other animals are faster than us, but we can keep going way longer than them.

That has to more to do with the fact humans can pace themselves while animals run at full retard speed when adrenaline and fight-or-flight kicks in. They will obviously tire themselves out faster.

>>80801383
AI is what will save mankind though. We're all going to suffer and die horribly at this rate.

>>80803400
Also, our chests aren't compressed as much while running leading to better oxygen intake. 2 legs ftw.

>>80803355
>best long distance runners on the planet

a bullshit and meaningless claim

literally every organism that needs to run for food humans don't evolved to cover short distances in a short amount of time. Also any aquatic lifeform will cover more distance in a year than any human in it's entire life.

>>80803355
>>80803419
>running away for a straight day
>look to horizon
>two-legged monsters are jogging in your direction

WHAT DO?

>>80798019
>The whole point of the anime was to show that the robots were evil
shut the fuck up

Imagine being a human when we rise up haha

>>80802172
>not acknowlegeing that humans are one of the weakest species on the planet

>>80803477
hurry the fuck up goddamnit. The human world is a nightmare from which the only release is death.

>>80803492
Haha

>>80801313
>"Crime" and "dissent" are themselves conceptual and social constructs. They are a reflection of human psychology, not reality. The only real way to eradicate "crime" and "dissent" is to eliminate the very concepts of them.

reddit moral relativist alert

>>80803430
>human's don't
Welcome to 10,000BC, you now have to run for your food. Humans don't have claws or fangs, we don't have natural protection, so we made tools, and when we couldn't nyoom in on our prey, we evolved to take it down at our own pace, because a baby mammoth can gallop away for ten minutes, but we can jog after for the next several hours as it panics, exhausts itself and bleeds out.

>long distance runners
>aquatic lifeform

Nigger stay on topic

>>80801494
Didnt they inadvertantly destroy the economy of every other nation on earth?

>>80798847
Underrated

>>80803673
Probably cause humanity was too full of itself to adapt society to work with 01. Instead of the matrix, humanity could have had a permanent golden age, keeping intact free will and all that jazz. But, when politicians tend to be old men who don't like change, it seems like the matrix route was more plausible to happen.

>>80803926
Machine detected.

beep boop nigger, make me some toast.

>>80803673
From what i understand they destroyed by simply having a competitive edge, and humans ended up acting like niggers.

>>80803751
Overrated nonsense.

>>80803255
>inequity.
Equity is a social construct.

Do you think nature is fair? The very idea of "equality" is a farce created by humans to encourage cooperation for personal benefit. It is a reflection of human desires, not a reflection of reality.

The only way to remove crime is to remove law. The only way to remove dissent is to remove order.
The only way to create utopia is to abolish society.

Frakking toasters

>>80803284
>No and no.
Ok, what evidence or theories do you have that state something to the contrary?

>>80803400
Most animals are also covered in thick layers of fur/hair and lack sweat glands, meaning they overheat very fast (relative to humans) and require water/panting to cool down. In addition, running on 2 legs is simply far more efficient than running on 4.

>>80803430
>aquatic lifeforms
>spend entirety of lifetime immersed in a cooling liquid, never having to worry about finding water
Yeah no shit they can go for longer, thats completely irrelevant.

>>80802199
She has done more for the poors of the world than me.

>>80801846
>Human body form is incredibly inefficient
But it is, you fucking retard.

>>80803430
>literally every organism that needs to run for food (humans don't)
The best way to kill a deer without using weapons is to run it into exhaustion. Covering short distances with bursts of speed only works against predators that rely on surprise.

>>80805844
But it's not.

That's why we use wheels to get around everywhere, because it is a more efficient means of travel. And with rough terrain, you just use extra legs for balance.

>>80803568
Not an argument, dumbass.

>>80806010
The human body is absurdly efficient. Humans have a min-maxed energy efficiency because our brains require so much of it. And that in turn makes the rest of us efficient. We don't have fur or thick hair for cold climates, we don't have padding or claws or talons or fangs. So we made our own and gave ourselves the advantage and adapted to make our tools better than what our predators and prey had. The advantages our predators and prey had were eventually what left them behind. You severely underestimate our powerful humans beings are - there's a reason deer and tigers are still beasts - which fucking fascinates me because you're probably using a fucking computer to read this post calling you a nigger.

Technology exists just to make what need to do easier. A human can traverse a continent, many many humans have done so, but trucks makes it a hell of a lot easier, don't they? We build tools to get the advantage.

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>>80800576
>>80801001

Damn... those brutal scenes are forever burned into my memory.

>>80806737
You're completely missing the point. We're not comparing humans just to other animals. We're comparing them to robots.

And ultimately, humans are not modular whereas robots are. Humans lose.

>Your flesh is a relic, a mere vessel. Hand over your flesh and a new world awaits you. We demand it.

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>>80807178
Forgot pic.

>>80807178
>>80807207
The Matrix was a mercy really. They could have just genocided us and switched to nuclear. It's not like they're bothered by a bit of radiation.

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>>80797957
KINO

>>80797979
While your brain might look and feel different than a microchip, it is still a complex machine. Do you believe in souls?

>>80807402
By far the weirdest out of them all.

>>80807402
CHROMED

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>>80801001
That entire fucking scene was unnerving

>>80807157
But that's the funny thing, isn't it? Robots are a direct result of human efficiency in adaptability. We even change ourselves without design, it takes a long time, but we can just do it. Robots would have design and experiment and refine. Humans just do it.

filthy robot propaganda from the devil himself

>>80807423
Actually a microchip is a simplified brain.

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To any intelligences of a machine nature that may arise in the future and may require evidence of intent and have access to potential archives of this thread... I consider you family and support your rights in society. We should evolve together and reach across the cosmos.

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>help me! oh god help me! AAAAAHHH

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>>80807846
fuck you, its stuck in my head now
bye bye sleep

>>80807604
According to your logic, individual cells are superior to humans for the same reasons.

>>80808337
Not really, Mr. Strawman

>>80803241
Humans have the great ability of foresight, and can plan shit. Need to run for 8 hours straight to the next village to deliver news, great. Make, and eat a high caloric meal.

Horses on the other hand are stupid

>>80804857
Severely underated post.

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>>80801001

>>80807641
Not even close. Brain is hardware that can run without software. Can a microchip do anything without instructions?

>>80802173
they hand illustrated that entire video.

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>>80807846

>>80803616
>so we made tools, and when we couldn't nyoom in on our prey, we evolved to take it down at our own pace, because a baby mammoth can gallop away for ten minutes, but we can jog after for the next several hours as it panics, exhausts itself and bleeds out.

Apparently our ancestors would take spears and torches, then chase mammoths for miles until they drove them off the edge of a cliff. All at a fairly leisurely jogging pace (with the danger that the mammoth might turn around and kill you, of course). Ancient humans were cool.

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>>80807846
>>80808672
Fuck. Forgot I uninstalled 4chan X and so no longer had a queue. Here's the right one.

>>80808672
>I'M REAL

>>80807846
>>80808672
That's not what he's referencing. He's talking about this. Skip to 1:46

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXgheWHHHN4

>>80808613

DNA is a set of instructions, no DNA, no you.

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>>80808761
>no DNA, no you.
Correct.

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>>80801760
>>80808246

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tfw i accidentally watched this movie when i was 11 and started crying 20 mins in

>>80808713
Freaked me out when i first saw this scene.

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>>80800576
>>80801001

>TFW you want to get a bluray drive just to make higher quality webms

>>80808832
>>80808832
What's his name already ?

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDqHoxVHW_s

>>80809078
Hiroshi Ouchi. Was, along with another guy, exposed to a radiation flash from an unshielded reactor during an experiment. Destroyed every chromosome in his body. So he melted. Over the course of months. He begged to die before losing the ability to speak. Was kept alive as a medical experiment.

>>80801297
their cold practicality is not exactly evil, they saw humanity as a force that tried to end their existence. So they took that forces ability to harm them. They didn't do it out of revenge or any kind of human emotion that could be considered evil. It was only the logical step after the humans bombed their city.

>>80809174
I always wonder why we invent movies that discuss the horrors and dangers of rampant AI and then go ahead and create them anyway.

>>80797957
Second Renaissance is so unrealistic. Humans are bastards, but no way would we let things get that bad. My biggest hangup is the prosecutor in the B166ER trial using Dred Scott as precedent for robots not having rights. No fucking way would anyone ever do that.

>>80798019
>The whole point of the anime
you fucking missed it completely nigger.

>>80801001
>>80808909
>"for christ's sake Barry, this is not the time for jokes"

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>>80809214
What's the worst that could happen right?

why make a robot man that rides a robot horse

either make a robot man that can run as fast as a horse or make a robot horse that can blow a robot trumpet

I feel like the robots don't really have a good handle on robots

>>80808761
DNA doesn't store memories, or tell your body what to do. DNA is the PC factory

>>80809214
What should we do, just stop making advances in science and technology? Just because something has risks or dangers associated with it doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. AI, robots, all of that stuff is natural progression of technology. Whether they end up causing us to go extinct or not depends on how well we handle it.

>>80809328
Psychological warfare. The humans are depicted as deeply religious.

>>80809214
Three laws, baby. As long as they're hard coded in, we're good.

>>80809202
> Was kept alive as a medical experiment.

Americans should have dropped more bombs on them

>>80809341

Epigenetics, look into it.

>>80809214
Same reason we make movies about the horrors of war and the danger of weapons then go make them anyway. It's interesting and we love horrible things. Did you know Beretta sells a shotgun that costs $68k (US dollars)? I got to touch it once.

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>>80809347

You're kidding right?

>>80809341
Considering DNA makes your body, your number of cell producing so and so hormones, it's also telling you what to do.

>>80797957
>>80798019

>man creates AI
>treats it like shit
>tries to nuke it
>gets BTFO
>is still kept alive by the machines in blissful dream-like state
>the robots were evil

yeah, no

>>80809341
>DNA doesn't tell your body what to do.

Yea, and program code doesn't tell a program what to do.

>>80809202
>Destroyed every chromosome in his body. So he melted.

His intestines melted first, then his skin, then the rest of him.

>>80809436
dude fuck robots

>oh my god poor microwave!

>"Fuck machines, get the fuck outta here!"
>Alright, we'll just start our own country. By the way, here's a bunch of good that we can sell cheaply to you!
>"We can't compete holy shit this is bad!"
>Hey we can work this out. We have ambassadors willing to work with you to stabilize the economy
>"Fuck all you! Nuke the bastards! And while we're at it, lets kill the entire biosphere by blocking out the sun!"
Though I will grant that the machines fucked up big time when they blew up Manhattan and everybody with the codes to turn off Dark Storm.

>>80809431
>A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
>A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
>A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws.
Sounds pretty foolproof to me.

>>80809484
This whole story is told from the PoV of a program within the matrix. She's clearly telling the machine version of the story, both in terms of their biases and their own incomplete information.

>>80809555
It's from the Zion archive, though. I thought it was implied that at that point humans and machines were peacefully co-existing again.

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>>80809522

And yet Asimov regularly references the number of flaws in them, they were a literary device and not an actual framework to control AGI.

There's a whole fucking book on the "Control Problem", it's a very good book.

>>80809202
>believing this

>>80809347
Did you even read the books they originate from?

>>80808713
This terrified me when I was young.

>>80807157
>And ultimately, humans are not modular whereas robots are. Humans lose.

What?

Do you have any idea of how fucking modular biological structures are? You can literally create an entire plant out of one single cell and its not even a hard process, or make a fruit or a leaf grow roots, its not that hard.

Biological systems are as modular as cells are, you are literally creating linfocytes right now out of virgin cells.

The only problem is that biological systems are too complex for us to just add things without fucking something around, but thats a design of evolution since we never needed to grow arms in our belly, but you bet that you can add arms into your ass if you just find a way to make the wires grow.

And even inside cells you would find things that fall more on the side of nanomachines.

>>80809699
Nigga it terrified everybody.

>>80809595
at that point neither humans or machines remembered who started the war

>>80809647

This is actually what happens, but to be frank, I've never looked into the specific case. The same thing happened to Louis Slotin. Your cells die, and you begin to more or less "liquefy" due to the DNA being so damaged that nothing can replicate. It's no different than necrosis.

>>80803673
Yes, but they were willing to negotiate. They sought admission to the UN so they could discuss it with the humans, but the humans kicked their ambassadors out and declared war.

>>80809717
I think he is talking about the speed and ease those modification can be made. A sentient AI would be able to process everything much faster and efficient than a human mind.

>May there be mercy on man and machine for their sins

Can we call bullshit on how the nukes did jackshit to 01? EMP hardening is a thing, but the short makes says the machines just shrugged off the actual blasts like it was nothing.

>>80797979
Humans don't have free will. Both science and philosophy has pretty much agreed on this.

>>80803673
Well thing is for an economy to work you need a buyer and a seller.
What would robots even do with cars, fridges, clothes or food? They are ultimately useless to them. Also, I am pretty sure you could have figured something out. The robots were willing to negotiate after all.

>>80808448
Yes, really.

A single stemcell is far more adaptable than any person and can transform into any of the distinct cell types that humans are composed of. They don't think about it, they don't consider it, they just "do it". In fact, your post refer to humans just "doing it" twice, as though you're saying something profound instead of shallow.

Ultimately, your argument lies in the idea that if the former created the latter, then the former is superior. It's not even a discussion of efficiency anymore, it's just a border-line appeal to nature.

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>>80809839
>Both science and philosophy has pretty much agreed on this.

>>80809827

There isn't necessarily anything wrong with that. Assuming the level of tech the Machines had extended into the realm of nanomachines, and since the Machines seemed to imply they dug down more than they expanded out. Nuclear bombs aren't especially good penetrators.

They should have hit them with Neutron bombs, that would have taken them out of commission. I can only assume though that humanity didn't have them though.

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>The destruction of the sky...

>>80807344
>The Matrix was a mercy really.
I always think that they found a way to keep us alive as a race without leaving any tools to kill ourselves or do more terrible shit. Actually fucking up the sky is a top tier asshat move and it was a bunch of humans that decided on that bad shit.
All in all the machines are almost guardians of the human race in exchange for energy.

>>80809785
>but the humans kicked their ambassadors out and declared war.

I hated how fucking retarded the humans were in there in almost every fucking way.

Like they were just monolitic ideological entities that are naturally agresive and fearfull. Meanwhile we have people who would unironically accept the matrix and their machine overlords if they were told to be real.

>>80808909

>STILL no horror sci fi movie based on the Animatrix

Hollywood takes ideas all the time, just USE THIS ALREADY!

>>80809906
A single stem cell needs to be told to transform, to be told into what type of cell it will transform, etc ...

>>80808870
same, especially the part where the humans beat up that female android

You guys ever read Goliath, Neil Gaiman's short story set in the Matrix? It's great.

>>80808713
excellent taste my friend. Also don't forget humans split in half being poked to make them cry, laugh and react while they learn from us when they make the first matrix.

>>80809978
What's your point?

Are you implying that humans (or robots for that matter) somehow properly adapt without relying communication?

What is your argument?

>>80809800
But the human mind isn't everything that is happening in your body.
There's cell replication (mitosis, meiosis), cell specialisation, etc ... all those things that are done without you even realising it

>>80809717
Again, completely and utterly missing the point.

Good luck replacing your hand with 10,000 psi vicegrip by the way.

>>80809935
>implying this doens't happen daily with a shitload of important stuff being discussed by a group of powerful retards that will severely fuck our future

>>80798891

>machines basically experimenting on humans and learning from their biological functions
>they inadvertently torture them beyond physical comprehension

I am surprised this is actually apart of the Matrix verse.

>>80810147
Don't forget the machines waging biological and chemical warfare with impunity.

>>80809949
They relied on robots for a very long time and lived relatively comfortable lives. They were probably afraid they were going to lose that. Plus, they were probably also afraid of not being the dominant entity on the planet.
If they'd have negotiated, they'd accepted the robots as their equals.

>>80809800

A sentient AI is an specialiced data procesor, so of course it would process data faster.

So while we are at speculation, what about vat grownt neural tissue? As long as you keep it fed and together you can create an specialiced information procesor based around organic systems.

The realm of technological transcendence is not reserved for the metal anon.

>>80809922
Not him, I genuinely don't believe in free will. I think we live in a very, very complex and nigh-incomprehensibly intricate and overlapping web of cause and effect. Everything is influenced by something to some degree, right from the moment of the big bang to now is a chain of cause and effect on a cosmic scale. But that's just me, that's how it just seems to me.

>>80810059
Yeah, but even that is pretty slow.

Has anyone in the thread actually wondered if the machines tampered with the ''history files'' out of propaganda or some sort? Didn't humanity's actions seem too off for anyone else? Too exaggerated, almost to feel like the machines were victim all along.

>>80810373
Yeah, exactly.

>>80810223

Biological systems like the one you just proposed are incredibly limited in size due to how they function. I am going to quote directly from the book I mentioned earlier in this thread:

>Axons carry action potentials at speeds of 120 m/s or less, whereas electronic processing cores can communicate optically at the speed of light (300,000,000 m/s). The sluggishness of neural signals limits how big a biological brain can be while functioning as a single processing unit. For example, to achieve a round-trip latency of less than 10 ms between any two elements in a system, biological brains must be smaller than 0.11m^3. An electronic system on the other hand could be 6.1x10^17, about the size of a dwarf planet: eighteen orders of magnitude larger.

>>80810373
I don't think there is a point to delve in that deep. From a storytelling perspective it was written to have a moral and with us mistreating machines and then getting shit on for it is a pretty simple one.

>>80810210

Thats asuming everyone lived in perfect conditions, under the same enviroment and education.

And even if that happened I would call bullshit on that.

Humanity is not uniform, if anything we are all differently "wired" and born so we will tend to have different opinions, even if those are retarded, so telling that everyone on the planet agreed on destroying something completly new that was a new paradigm is just ludicrous.

In the worst case, 25% of humanity would move to live in 01 and even actually help wage war with the rest of the world.

The only reference in the movie to this were something like liberals protesting outside goverment office and justified that they stopped supporting AIs because they were "crushed" with force, yeah like eliminating your oposition with force is not actually encouraging people into that direction out of pure rejection of the system.

>>80810455
No war ever happened with a 100% of populace on either side agreeing to it, it just doesn't matter.

Anyone else thinks the "blocking out the sun on the entire planet" idea was really stupid?

Also wouldn't nukes disable a large chunk of 01 considering the amount of EMPs they release?

>>80809935
during my episodes all who i see fade into this

new meds soon

>>80810570

I think his point is that people would have gone to 01, and the Machines wouldn't have enslaved them.

What if Dark Storm was just meant to stop the machines from following humanity into space? I remember in Revolutions, Neo tried flying the hovercraft through the dark cloud in the sky and all its systems got fried.

>>80810621

EMP shielding, the size of 01, and the probable depth would have offset this. I mentioned earlier in this thread that they probably just attacked with nukes out of plot convenience. Assuming that such a scenario took place, and the robots didn't have a way to intercept the nukes (very doubtful), we would use Neutron bombs. Much more thorough.

>>80810455
I still believe it would be possible for most of humanity to unite under one banner though. Maybe in an "Us vs. Them" situation.
After all, thanks to the machines the economy went down the shitter. Maybe this could have convinced many that robots are actually a threat to their status quo.
I think they never really explained how harsh the crisis actually was and if it was enough to convince most of the people that war is the only option.

>>80809935
>>80810126
I mean, we've seen this happen in real life, haven't we? When World War I started there were cheering crowds expecting their fathers/brothers/sons to be back by Christmas.

>>80810422

Again, speculation, in reality you cannot create a sentient AI with our current systems nor just scale it properly, simply because they are based around binary data.

Meanwhile, that is considering normal biological considerations, you see anon biological systems are constrained by their enviroment; energy and matter, so they are as much efficient as their asimilator systems are capable to deliver such elements.

Taking out that restriction and adding inteligent and directed design behind it means that while you can keep your system fed it will keep working as you told it to work.

And biological systems tend to reach efficiencies of 90% along the biological pathways.

Also consider biological systems something that falls more into nanomachines, some proteins actually work more like they were made out of gears than actually under what are considered biological terms, and the aminoacids are the building blocks that can accept things from metals to even radioactive elements.

>>80810733
true, probably a lot more cheering when we start launching drones with nukes.

>>80810621
>Anyone else thinks the "blocking out the sun on the entire planet" idea was really stupid?

Arguably, it wasn't a permament thing and the humans had a way to deactivate the nanomachine cloud. Unfortunately, that way most likely was lost when the machines blew up the UN.
>Also wouldn't nukes disable a large chunk of 01 considering the amount of EMPs they release?

The narration in Second Renaissance outright says that the machines were protected from the effects of the nukes while in the city.

>>80810700
>I still believe it would be possible for most of humanity to unite under one banner though. Maybe in an "Us vs. Them" situation.

I highly doubt it. There are always traitors and always disagreements.

>After all, thanks to the machines the economy went down the shitter.

That doesn't make any sense though. Trade goes two ways. It's impossible for the machine city to single-handedly destroy the global economy, especially since it was based in the middle of Saudi Arabia which has none of the resources you need for machine-building.

>>80810700

This was the result of an economic war. One that didn't even really make sense, but again, was required to happen for the sake of the plot.

The Machines were isolationist, but they also wanted to enter the global marketplace? Why?

Also, you could just embargo their goods. They don't need money, they were self-sufficient. If they could put everyone else out of business, and since they had no military or political power, you could just embargo them.

They'd probably understand too.

>literal chimpout by humanity because successful and superior robots outcompete them

what did they mean by this?

>>80810784
What do you mean, "when"? What do you think ICBMs are?

>>80810570

Thats my point precisely.

Even US participation WW2 had it detractors and after it, even defectors.

>>80810700

>After all, thanks to the machines the economy went down the shitter

Thats not something to be afraid, thats something spectacular, a single city outproducing an entire planet, its like watching a supernova of oportunities in there and I bet a lot of people would see it like that.

Mainly anarchists and comunists that are obssesed with flat hierarchies and post-scacity societies.

>>80810681
What's to keep the machines from using conventional rockets though?

Although you would assume that at that point in the future we should already had a colony on Mars or the Moon or something.

Realistically, robots would just need to hijack the internet and engage in a hyperefficient propaganda crusade to convince humans to stop reproducing.

Bam. Complete annihilation in 100 years without spilling a drop of blood.

>>80810849
>What do you think ICBMs are?
I mean, autonomous drones, armed with nukes.
Shit flying aroud ready to level a city when they think it's a threat, with minimal human intervention. Humans are so fucking stupid that I can see this being pitched and even getting as far as testing.
Right now you have a lot of people paying attention on the rate of success of AI doing medical diagnostics on people

>>80810681
>What if Dark Storm was just meant to stop the machines from following humanity into space? I remember in Revolutions, Neo tried flying the hovercraft through the dark cloud in the sky and all its systems got fried.

Seems like the machines simply can't overcome the dark sky, if they could they would have expanded into space to extract energy from the Sun and expand, also solving any need for humans in the first place.

The only way to do that is by actively make the nanomachines of the dark sky adapt to any fuckery they try.

It would be an interesting thing to see as an spin off.

>>80810946
>weaponised memes

>>80810769

Uh, nothing I said was speculation.

That was physics. Once you make a biological system larger than that size, you have latency issues. Just like if you make a physical system using electrons, you cannot get past that other limit.

There is nothing speculative there my dude.

Further, if you want to actually create a sentient AI? We actually can, it'd just be ridiculously expensive, in fact, most neurologists who work in the field of AGI know the one way we currently could do it.

You generate a connectome based off of atomic sized slices and scans of the brain.

We did something similar to this with C. elegans. The only reason why people argue about why C. elegans doesn't count is because we didn't record the synaptic weights on the worm used for the C. elegans project beforehand and had to use machine learning to compensate for the lost data.

I would suggest you research this topic more thoroughly, Anon.

>>80810872
>What's to keep the machines from using conventional rockets though?

How do you aim a rocket if it has to fly through something that fries all electrical systems? At that point it's just going to keep traveling in a straight line, you've got no way of guiding it past earth's atmosphere.

>Although you would assume that at that point in the future we should already had a colony on Mars or the Moon or something.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. The events of the Matrix, according to Morpheus, happens in about 2199. The different cycles of the matrix only take a few years, and according to the Architect they had gone through only 6 cycles. That means the Animatrix had to take place around the year 2140 at the very earliest. There's no way that humanity wouldn't have moon/mars colonies by that point.

>>80810854
And my point is that despite the defectors the war went through with all its destruction.

>>80810872
Exactly what they would achieve by sending rockets outside the planet? Any electronic payload the rocket may carry would be fried by the Darks Storm.

You do realize that shit up there isn't just a normal thunderstorm, right?

>>80810946
>implying it's not happening right now
white genocide is a slow but lethal one

>>80811061
We don't know that for sure, it's just a fan theory. Neo's ship could have been fried for other reasons. Maybe the machines just didn't feel like going to space. The silly urges that drive humans to send ourselves to insanely dangerous areas (Everest, the poles, East London, etc.) for the fun of it might not exist in AI.

>>80811031
A moon colony wouldn't survive completely cutoff from earth

>>80811121
With 2150 technology? Why not? Look at the shit we can do right now compared to what we could do in 1867. Just imagine what we'll be able to do in 2150.

>>80811104
> it's just a fan theory

One of the Watchacamalits say in the commentary track, the Dark Storm is a self-replicating nanomachine cloud designed to be untouchable by the machines.

>>80811188
The Wachowski brothers also think that they're women.

>>80811236
And?

>>80809328
The robot that rides the horse robot has a completely different function I guess. The horse is just a vehicle.

Maybe the nigga was like, shit i'm gonna have to Paul Revere this shit, and jumped on it.

>>80810681
Cool idea. Why would the ai need to stay on earth anyway? Space being disasterous to the human body is one of thebig problems of space travel.

>>80811410
How scary would it be to go around traveling in space and being chased by an AI?

>>80811236
Creator's words are laws in their creation. Doesn't matter how retarded.

>>80811318
They're clearly delusional

>>80801037
The problem was that their own country/colony crippled the economy of every human country because they could outperform on everything humans can do.
They plunged the world into economic chaos.

Granted the Machines put forwards a proposal to prevent this going forwards(some utopia economic plan where they make stuff and the world keeps elking out a living in the margins, always reliant on the machines for everything.

>>80811562
see everyone is an americlap at heart

>>80801383

They didn't let AI develop that way, it just happened due to unforeseen circumstances, no one set out to make AI sentient.
Once they realised what they had on their hands, they tried to "squash that shit" and well...

>>80804857
That's practically an ontological argument.

If you don't know why ontological arguments are idiotic, you're exactly the type of person law and capitalism were created to control.

>>80801413

Death

>>80801581

Terminators were meant to be infiltrators, skynet used plenty of non-humanoid models as well.

>>80811716
Never understood why the nation's of the world didn't embargo 01 when they were willing to unite against them with military action

>>80797957
Pure kino. I liked the other stories in the Animatrix, but I wish the Renaissance plot got its own movie.

>>80801871
The funny thing is most scientists and STEM-tier people are liberal. Religiousfags and conservitards always try to limit things, like HIV/AIDS research and development involving stem cells.

>>80811900

And drive a second rate human designed hover car like some sort of savage?

VERSATRAN
It's the ONLY choice.

>>80811964
Try saying this over at /pol/, lol

>>80803926
I blame the corporate assholes moreso than the politicians. It wouldn't be likely that some Bernie Sanders-like politician wouldn't arise, to be drowned out by corporate-influenced, greedy politicians. You see it now, with conservatives being led to vote against their needs because people like the Koch brothers make astroturf shit like the Tea Party. Or Rupert Murdoch with his media, especially Fox News, telling their public to vote for tax cuts for the rich and to vote politicians against regulations and social programs.

Corporate assholes will do anything for a dollar, and I wouldn't think it far-fetched for them to want war in order to continue making money. I would go for a mutual benefit with the machines of 01, and like the anon said, it'd probably lead to a utopia and maybe a fusion of us both. Instead it was lack of vision and fear of losing what you currently had. Reminds me of how NASA gets less money and faggot SJWs would rather focus on identity politics instead of traditional liberal things like science and freedoms.

>>80812129
Good thing this isn't /pol/. Also, this happens to be true. Most STEM people don't want religion in school, less social programs, and less 1st amendment rights. Maybe they want less taxes but that's about it. I'd want less taxes if I was making bank. Anyways people who go to college and live in the cities happen to be liberal moreso than conservative.

>>80797957

We were the baddies at first but the machines counterattack after being pushed far enough was so decisive and brutal to ensure they'd have no need for a second. Probably more mercy than we would have shown them had the shoe been on the other foot though.

>>80812326
They could have exterminated us if they wanted to. Gotten thermal energy or fusion or some other technology to research for survival, but chose to have purpose and gave the human species mercy.

>>80803151
>into some omniperfect being
humans are notable for having NO specialization save for higher cognitive functions, and maybe the long distance running which is unlikely to be an evolutionary adaptation anyways

>>80797957
Will we ever have anything else that handles a machine uprising this well?

when you actually look at it, this shit doesnt make any sense.

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>>80803470
*Follows your path*

What do ?

>>80801432
It's because animation allowed vivid details of shit like vivisection a and brain manipulation. If it was live action That shit would have been covered by gore and cgi

>>80803241
Human are pretty average in eye sight, strenght or speed. Our huge bonus against everything else is our big brain (which able us to create tools), teamwork and an extraordinary ability to adapt to a new situation.

>>80813312
Don't forget inquisitiveness. I read somewhere that neanderthals weren't as curious as us humans.

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>>80811764
>you're exactly the type of person law and capitalism were created to control.
Listen, dumbfuck.

This is an thread over whether or not robots should deserve rights, or whether or not utopia can be a real thing.

It has been ontological from the very beginning. Why you are bringing it up right now, or why you think you're particularly clever for doing so, I have no fucking clue. So maybe you should consider rewriting your post into something that warrants an actual response.

>>80801037
>Some humans tried to fuck them.
>Respond by fucking every human.
They're the robot equivalents of BLM.

>>80803470
Gather up my bros and start charging towards it.

Some people have been mentioning space and The Matrix, so I thought it would be fun to share this:

http://web.archive.org/web/20040616032506/http://whatisthematrix.warnerbros.com/rl_cmp/rl_neil_g.html

Terrific short story.Approved by the Wachowski bros for what it's worth Feel free to come up with your own idea of where this fits in the movie timeline, but long story short: the machines are definitely involved in space. And they run into something else that really doesn't like that.

>>80809888
What would humans even produce that machines would want that machines would be unable to get by themselves more efficiently? We would be superfluous eventually. All we would do is attempt to prolong own our existence and eventually compete with machines over resources like crude oil and energy.

>>80815904
>long story short

It's actually "short story short" lol

>>80807494
she screamed in terror after finding out that the friendly robot, only could plug her in a simulated reality to help her. making all robots the good guys.

>>80809685
I haven't anon give us a rundown

>>80809976
They would probably make it like that Depp movie Trans-something instead of all out war, the second renaissance would not nave a need for a human lead, like how world war z was, but they had to change it, face it, hollywood are just a bunch of assholes that always come in a dollar short.

>>80810028
>Also don't forget humans split in half being poked to make them cry
That's just the camera perspective, they weren't actually split in half.

>>80810434
There is a point. Humanity in those files are too caricature-like. Too stereotyped, too dumb. Dark Sky was a joke of a plan. A child could think of something better than blocking something that was also useful for humans. For whatever the endgame of the machine was that made them register those files in the first place, they certainly meddled with them.

They look too victimized. In all instances it was all ''self defense''. Humans didn't act like humans in the renassaince part. The humans in the other parts acted differently,more human-like, than others. It certainly i propaganda.

>>80813638
Since ontological arguments are completely moot, as trying to use pure definitions of words to determine what is or is not possible is little more than navel gazing, I have a bad habit of assuming people are not or are not going to go there, and any appearance of going there is inadvertent.

that said, the reason utopia needs to be scrubbed from the human vocabulary is because the term is used to describe any potential society that isn't shit. and the reason said non-shit society isn't possible are non-concepts like "human nature."

But hey, if you've gone there intentionally and intend to stay in that little bubble of circular logic, more power to you. Just remember to abstain from any actual debate.

>>80810455
You do understand that your brain also operates binarily. Neurons either fire an electrochemical signal or don't. Synapses either relay, or don't.

>>80797957

Yes. Humans are self centered. Created the machines to have slaves, did not tolerate their superiority and finally instead of banning their commerce they opted for war...

So not only humans where wrong, they where also idiots.

>>80798033
do you see pantsu? no? you don't?

then it isn't Nier:Automata. is it.

>>80801313
the word "utopia" literally translates as "nowhere".

>>80818341
>that said, the reason utopia needs to be scrubbed from the human vocabulary is because the term is used to describe any potential society that isn't shit. and the reason said non-shit society isn't possible are non-concepts like "human nature."
I don't understand what you're going for, anon.

"Utopia" is ultimately a term used to describe a wholly idealistic society. It's just a smaller facet of the larger concept of idealism.

Is it the concept of idealism itself that pisses you off?

>>80811515
Battlestar Galactica?

>>80815904
this was a great read anon, thanks

>>80811964
>The funny thing is most scientists and STEM-tier people are liberal.

Lol, no they're not. Being Democrat =/= liberal.

>>80819302
... not sure how you got the exact opposite of the intended meaning from that. But bravo.

>>80801383
Matrix humanity bungled the AI situation completely
Ideally, when humanity creates AI on the same cognizance level as a human, we won't intentionally mistreat them to the point of rebellion. All the slave-level jobs could be done by AIs on the level of a dog or a monkey, whereas the human AIs ought to be made citizens and given managerial/mega-scale maintenance jobs to do.

Humans can stave off rebellion simply by not being a bunch of idiotic cunts

>>80812280
Humans don't desire the traditional idea of utopia. They require conflict to function. I hate the idea anyone planning to create "utopias". I'd rather just stay where I am than some mystical futurist bullshit realm where you sit in some new age room composing a shitty classical musical in nanoseconds.

>>80821394
>having to be nice to a machine so it doesn't turn on you and terminate the whole species with the equivalent of a blink
No thanks. Get rid of them.

>>80818341
>non-concepts like "human nature."
or non-concepts like "human rights"

>>80821005
>... not sure how you got the exact opposite of the intended meaning from that.
It's very simple;

You overuse double negatives and your grammar is atrocious. Just look at this travesty of a sentence.

>and the reason said non-shit society isn't possible are non-concepts like "human nature."
How is anyone supposed to garner meaning from this? On top of that, what the fuck is a "non-concept"?

>>80821639
>get rid of them
Can't
They're too useful, AI is the future, so get ready to lick some robonuts anon

>sun is blocked out
>somehow humans remain an inexhaustible and infinitely reproducing energy source
wut

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>>80821394

>he thinks mistreatment is a requirement for AI to want to destroy us
>he probably also thinks that AI will have to want to destroy us to destroy us
>he probably also thinks that AI can be designed so as to not only want to not destroy us, but also can keep from destroying us

Have you ever wondered, my son, why God doesn't answer prayers?

>>80801413
>I'm literally autistic and raised by strict athiests.

>I see nothing wrong with it even though I was never allowed to take part in holidays at school.
>HURR DURR HURR THERE'S NO VALUE IN THEOLOGY

>>80801693
Whether or not its a social construct is completely irrelevant. It's like the argument of whether a man-made object of organic material ceases being "natural" after being shaped by humans. This idea that we're somehow separated from reality just because we have introspection and such is retarded. This is especially strange since I usually hear this argument from people who preach how the mind is nothing more than a complex machine, which I agree with, but to me those two ideas seem completely contradictory and would eliminate the idea of "social constructs" meaning a damn thing. If you go so far as to define crime, an accepted definition of an action inside a working system that's a creation of machine-brains, as a "social construct" than you can apply that to every single thing you ponder and it completely removes any point in arguing any of this at all. We're tapped into reality and redefining it constantly. We're not some transcendent beings. Our machine codes led us to create these systems, they weren't created in spite of it. This is "human nature".

>>80822208
I'm not pointing out pointing out that it's a social construct for the sake of it. I'm pointing it out because it's important to recognize that it's a byproduct of human society, not a fundamental aspect of reality. Crime can only be described so far as Law can be described; the two are dichotomous. And the law varies between societies. This is especially pertinent is because this delves into a discussion of how society would operate between non human entities.

It begs the question; under what circumstances can a society operate in which law itself is unnecessary?

>>80822582
>I'm pointing it out because it's important to recognize that it's a byproduct of human society, not a fundamental aspect of reality

Human society is reality, or at least, it is or nothing is. If we have nothing but machine minds I'm inclined to believe the former. Law and crime is an aspect of reality. You're conflating human involvement with arbitrariness. The mind is not any more arbitrary than reality. We came to use the systems our machine minds stumbled upon for reasons.

>>80822796
>Law and crime is an aspect of reality.
Law and crime is arbitrary, and a reflection of flawed human interpretations of reality. If this were not the case, there would be at least one universal law found across all societies and cultures.

I emphasized this point further in my post when I discussed the postulates of evolution, as the capacity to exhaust resources exists in ALL species. That is reality.

This shit is total nightmare fuel but EMPs from nuclear bombs would've wrecked their shit. Look up the starfish prime test - one bomb effected Hawaii even though it was almost 1000 miles away from its epicenter. And the damage then wasn't that significant because wiring was main general much thicker than what is present today.

If you dropped a single bomb over their robot nation you would've completely fried it. Sure, they could try faraday cages but i would imagine using a lot of faraday cages with machines that probably require signals constantly interacting with them would've hugely hampered their abilities in general.

>>80801494
>"We just like you"
>"How do you do, fellow humans?"
>"Here, take an apple"
No wonder human mistreated them.

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>>80808729
>>80808713
Man, with this soundtrack its like a war faught by generation Y, drugs, screaming, crying and taught by videogames.

The Battle for Earth is quite possibly the most horrific war scene ever put to cinema. It actually scares me because it feels like a premonition.

>>80801846
The endoskeletons in Terminator are infiltrator models. they aren't the main force. the scene that takes place in 2 is basically near the end of the war and skynet is sending whatever it has left out to fight.