Who is your favorite villain in cinema?

>>80489768
what are some elder god tier villains lads?

Angel Eyes because he's a badass motherfucker

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>>80489768
>Adachi
>his entire motivation boils down to 'fuck this shit you're all brats'

>>80489825
Griffith

>>80489825
Ozymandias

>>80489768

>Breen
>sold humanity into slavery "for the greater good"
>I should feel sorry for him as he goes about his day in his air conditioned office eating rich food and drinking clean water cuz "muh sacrifice"

When is he going to pick up that can huh? WHEN IS IT HIS TURN TO PICK UP THAT CAN?!!?

>>80489768
darth vader as presented in esb. he's this radical figure who sees both the injustice of the empire and the folly of the rebellion's attempts to reinstate the republic (which, as shown in the prequels, was simply the empire with a liberal-democratic facade). what he offers luke is a third way, a true revolution as opposed to different flavors of slavery under the empire/republic. luke can't handle this violent upending of his value system and attempts suicide.

then rotj retcons all this and pretends lying scumbag obiwan is still trustworthy and that vader simply needed a hug from his son to join obi-wan's side. biggest cop-out in cinematic history.

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>>80489768
that's retarded. Some villains that would fall under shit tier are some of the most enjoyable ones there are. Just pure hatred
case and point:

>>80489768
What is the deal with adachi?

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>>80489768
As much as I detest Whedon I really enjoyed The Operative.

>mal: I don't murder children
>operative: ...I do, if I have to

>>80490243

He's the original Elliot Rodger

>>80489960
Not a villain though

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>>80489825

>>80490262
The Operative is definitely the best character he ever created.

>>80490266
I think that's the point of elder god tier villains though - they're only portrayed as the villain when in actual fact what they're doing is much more noble than what the protagonist is doing.

>>80489825

Xanatos

Goro is better

Can someone tell me why Breen was actually in the wrong though? Despite being mean he was just in the right place at the right time just like Gordon was. Gordon was thrust into the position of the savior of mankind while Breen was thrust into the position of ruler of what little remained of mankind. Without the negotiating Breen did with the Combine the humans would've been erased.

>>80490294

I thought Caleb from Buffy was good, but mostly for Fillion's performance.

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>ctrl+f
>bane
>0 results
I'm disappointed in you /tv

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>>80489768

https://www.rabb.it/r/u7sc7i

>>80490358

Breen is a shit tier fucking negotiator at the end of the day, it's easy to reflect on the hard choice you made for the sake of humanity when you're not living in the shitpile with the rest of the people you sold out.

>>80490016
breen is proper scum. motivated 100% by cowardice and personal gain, invents flimsy rhetoric about making hard choices. he should have died like a man, couldn't, now tries to make "being an obedient slave" into the ultimate virtue to normalize his personal failing.

>>80489768
>Great Tier
>literally the definition of a tragic villain

You fucked up

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>when objectively the greatest villain ever is classified as shit tier by OP

>>80489876
Hate this meme

Tell me, Dr. Freeman, if you can. You have destroyed so much. What is it, exactly, that you have created? Can you name even one thing? I thought not.

>>80489768
what is that at SHIT TIER left one?

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I biased for big guys

Truthfully I'd have to say colonel Kurtz or Clarence Bodicker

>>80490400

He may not be a good negotiator but the circumstances he was in didn't exactly leave much to argue. It was basically the combine going "Why shouldn't we erase you". All Breen had to offer was slave labour.

I find it hard to believe Breen is the complete villian people make him out to be. I just cant see what else one could do for humanity in that situation.

I will admit though setting up a police and military force entirely made up of people wanting to abuse others in turn to receive better privileges was a bad move.

>>80490474

Dragon from Dragon Age.

>>80490454

Is there a more smug cunt with an inflated sense of self-worth than Breen?

>>80489825
Zack Snyder

>>80490511

Unironically, appointing yourself savior of mankind will do that to you.

Irenicus belongs to shit tier
He wants to become a god and destroy suldanessellar just because

>>80489768
Shouldn't mid tier really be 'elder god' tier?

An entity whose actions are considered villainous with unknown motivations is pretty Lovecraftian.

>>80490560

It's dumb to call something a "Villain" when it's just doing something it's programmed to do.

You don't call a hurricane a "Villain"

Hans Landa

>>80489825
Dagoth Ur

>>80490593
You could say that nothing is a villain then, even the most fucked up people are just following their equally fucked up programming.

>You don't call a hurricane a "Villain"
A hurricane isn't alive.

>>80490358
you're totally buying into breen's/combine's ideological mystification that slavery is the only alternative to death and that life outside the combine's enslavement is impossible. leaving aside the question of whether death wouldn't be preferable in such a situation, this is obviously a lie as shown in the game. your allies are neither dead or slaves. they are where they are and breen is where he is because they value dignity over safety and he doesn't. he values his own comfort over not just his own dignity but the dignity of every human being alive. how could he be any more despicable?

>>80490544
wrong, he wanted to draw the power from the tree to ascent, he didnt care about suldensellar. when he enters the story his motivation is a combination of desire for revange and quest for power.

Bane unironically has better motives than Batman and CIA.

>>80490560
>>80490593

They are still antagonist forces or agents, as for why they are listed as 'Mid-Tier', that comes down to how difficult it is to write this sort of character.

A character who is merely going through the motions is pretty simple to write about, particularly because it doesn't force any sort of actual introspection or external-evaluation on why the protagonist is doing what they are doing.

Using your example of a hurricane.

The protagonist is trying to get his family out of town before the hurricane hits.

Why?

Because the hurricane is dangerous.

This isn't exactly rocket appliances.

Stepping down to 'Meh-Tier', and the writer's job becomes even easier.

The Antagonist just stabbed three people in the face and killed a baby.

Why?

Because they're OFF THE RAILZ DUDE!

This makes the protagonist pretty much faultless in anything they do to stop the antagonist. Batman can beat the shit out of thirty guys to the point of near death, but because he did it in an attempt to find out where the Joker is - no one bats an eye.

>>80490688
This. I like his plan better.

>>80490655

But what comes after the revolution? Maybe Freeman has freed mankind from the clutches of Breen, but what happens when the combine show up?

The resistance was still on a small percentage of the population, the rest still worked while the tried to stop Breen.

A reminder that the combine conquered around 7 billion people in 7 hours, for them to exterminate the remainder of humanity would take mere minutes.

What exactly is the next step for mankind in this situation?

>>80490016
>>80490413
Alternative once he saw Gordon captured rather then running away to his alien overlords he could have stayed and help fight them back.

>>80490688
Batman is literally a fascist. Bane is occupy Wall street but without weak sauce liberals

>>80490713

And this is why there hasn't been a Half-Life 3.

>>80489858
>>his entire motivation boils down to 'fuck this shit you're all brats'
Hard to find fault

>>80490288
Hitler dubs too

>>80490754

I think it's better if it never comes out at this point, it's too big a plot hole to overcome.

How exactly would a society that's been technologically repressed for a generation suddenly rise up and defeat seemingly immortal space gods who operate on a different plane of existence.

I like to think the real ending of Half Life is that the Combine take a few generations to get back to earth after the events of episode 2, and by then everyone for the most part is content with this inevitability. Sure the human race is now going to be extinct but better to die in a massive war than worked to death.

>>80489768

>>80489825
Donald Dr*mpf

>>80489768
Irenicus did not have "misdeeds done against him" in fact he was a total dick and got rightfully punished

>>80490705
>it doesn't force any sort of actual introspection or external-evaluation on why the protagonist is doing what they are doing.
But it does. The Star Trek TNG episodes about the crystalline entity are a good example. A "villain" who is just following the motions, as evil as they might seem, is much harder to deal with. It's impossible to justify outright murder, as it then has as much of a right to live as the protagonists do. Obstructing its natural way of life is invasive and similarly cruel.

The difficult moral conundrum that arises isn't present in the other categories.

>Using your example of a hurricane.
The hurricane is idiotic. It's not a moral agent and can't be a villain, only an antagonist force. It doesn't belong in any of the categories.

>as for why they are listed as 'Mid-Tier', that comes down to how difficult it is to write this sort of character.
My initial point was that the definition for mid-tier fits the concept of an elder god. A being whose motivations are unknown and whose actions are perceived as evil but are part of its nature.

I don't see how it's any harder to write than a 'great tier' villain, who 9/10 times is a justified revenge plot.

>>80490855
he should have been killed in the first place not exiled

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>>80490655
But Freeman (with maybe help from gman?) is the chance for salvation. By selling humans out and carving out a cushy position for himself Breen has (presumably unwittingly) left a chance for the resistance to stop the combine and claim victory.

Instead of surrendering entirely, humanity is now in a state of exponential decay or a half-life.

>>80490903
>Instead of surrendering entirely, humanity is now in a state of exponential decay or a half-life.
FUCKING POTTERY

>>80489825
shere khan

>>80489825
Bane

A question I pose to /tv/, what would you do in Breen's position? Lets say by being in the right time and place, the Combine recognize you as Earth's negotiator. You now essentially have power over the remainder of humanity. What do you do differently?

>>80491017

DO IT, FAGGOT

>>80490866

>A "villain" who is just following the motions, as evil as they might seem, is much harder to deal with.

Not really. The Crystalline Entity is only a moralistic conundrum in a vacuum tube. You are only going to find wayward individuals in the real world who would argue that destroying the Crystalline Entity was a bad thing. It's literally Galactus. Galactus is a necessary force within reality (according to Marvel), and his entire job is to destroy planets. Often with billions of sentient beings on them. You have an incredibly weak argument if you're trying to justify why we shouldn't stop these things in their tracks.

>My initial point was that the definition for mid-tier fits the concept of an elder god.

You seem to be confused, the chart isn't literally about deification or power levels or anything of that shit. It's about the relative ranking of "how good" a villain is in comparison to one another. This is why the villain who has extremely well thought out morals and motivations that are difficult to pick apart or find fault in is listed as "Elder-God Tier" and not literally elder-gods.

>I don't see how it's any harder to write than a 'great tier' villain, who 9/10 times is a justified revenge plot.

Because why the fuck should I give a shit about what is driving Yog-Sothoth to do what it does? Ooo, spooky mystery. Get outta town. A villain you can find some relation with, or empathy towards is better because it's a much more humanistic character.

>>80490636
Any self aware being has the ability to defy their programming.
We're programmed to live and reproduce, yet we can commit suicide or decide not to have children.
Even the worst criminal in the world could just stop an become a paragon of virtue.
Now ask a lion if he could stop hunting gazelles, i doubt you could convince him to stop.

>>80491171

I dunno man, last time I asked a Lion that question he told me he might change his ways and go vegetarian.

But then again he might be Lion

>>80491045
>The Crystalline Entity is only a moralistic conundrum in a vacuum tube
What's wrong with that? It's an interesting problem for the characters to face and requires some intelligent writing to deal with. I would even argue the episode handled it poorly, by having a third party just 'deal' with it so simply.
>It's literally Galactus.
Galactus is an intelligent, self-aware creature. The Crystalline Entity wasn't even able to consider the value of human life, it was just feeding and carrying about its business. By calling it evil, then so is all of humanity by the same argument - we eat plenty of creatures unnecessarily.

>You seem to be confused, the chart isn't literally about deification or power levels or anything of that shit.
Yeah, I get the point. But the idea of an Elder God literally is the definition of mid-tier, hence my post.

>Because why the fuck should I give a shit about what is driving Yog-Sothoth to do what it does?
It's not a bad villain if you're too apathetic to even engage in the basic thought-process demanded by the author. Any villain can seem childish if you do that: "Oooh wow, your wife got sick Mr Freeze, good for you. It's doesn't justify shit."
Fear of the unknown is present in all humans, and by carefully layering in mystery to the motivations of other-worldly creatures, a terrifying entity is tailored for each individual reader. It's a much more creative way of going about it than revenge-plot #4,329.

>A villain you can find some relation with, or empathy towards is better because it's a much more humanistic character.
Whenever this happens, it's always the same thing, though. You understand why they're doing it, but don't agree with their methods. Or if you're edgy, you find them justified. That's about it. There's barely any depth because there are only a hand full of 'justifications' for becoming a villain like that.

>>80490262
had to be a nigger

>>80491234

But what is more interesting? A monster that kills people just because it needs to eat or a person who has a long backstory and a genuine motive?

Maybe you can argue that the Monster is a cool character but it's stupid to try and put forth the argument that something that cannot control its nature is a good "villian". What motive does this creature have apart from getting nutrition?

>>80490713
the ethical position taken by the game is that a life spent fighting for dignity is preferable to slavery, even if the slave's life is longer and more comfortable. this ethical stance is not altered by having to face worse odds.

maybe the resistance is doomed, maybe they only seem doomed because the combine propaganda makes it look that way. one way or another resistance is still virtuous and collaboration is still despicable.

unless, like breen, you believe that virtue is a lie and your only purpose is to maximize your lifespan. in that case you will gladly become the ultimate whore if it buys you one more day of breathing.

>>80490903
if that man didn't rape my mother, i would't be here today, says a beautiful child. is the rapist now justified?

>>80489848
You can see the fucking bald cap on his head so easily

>>80491301
>But what is more interesting?
It depends on how each situation is handled. The moralistic conundrum present in that episode of TNG was fairly unique. Meanwhile there are plenty of 'justified' killers who are plain and come across as repetitive.

>it's stupid to try and put forth the argument that something that cannot control its nature is a good "villian"
Look at the second villain listed under mid-tier. Giygas from EarthBound. He's able to pass judgement on all of humanity by following his nature. It's not just talking about lions and bears.

>>80491340
that's not a bald cap, that's fabulous french future fashion.

>>80490016
Half Life 2?

>>80491309

Would it be wiser for the Resistance to overthrow Breen and install a new government that still bows to the Combine or for them to follow the games plot and simply rebel against the Combine?

The dilemma I see is that the resistance will not have a "lifetime of fighting for dignity", as soon as the combine rock up the planet will just get glassed and the combine move on.

>>80491423

Yes Breen from Half Life 2, this entire thread has been mostly dedicated to arguing about him.

>>80491433
it's hard to argue about practical choices in a fictional scenario, particularly since even within the fiction itself most of the information comes from enemy propaganda.

if the resistance is ethically committed to fighting against enslavement then they will fight even if they only last a day. if they're like "we'll fight unless our perceived chances of victory fall below X%, in which case we'll choose slavery" then that's not much of an ethical commitment, is it? then it's just a pragmatic calculation. then they're just breen but with a different threshold for whoring themselves out.

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>>80489825

So Cthulhu is mid tier according to OP?.

Isnt he a literally elder god?.

I hope nobody unironically agrees with this list

It was clearly made by a weeb faggot who doesn't understand story design

>>80492064
Please
Accept the mystery

>>80489876
Literally Ganon tier

>>80492216
I think the only one most ppl agree is bottom one.

Being evil just because or to gain power is the lowest form of writing.

>>80491978

Shouldn't have killed Gyro, son. I reject your JUSTICE

>>80492485
He was a foreign enemy on American soil attempting to disrupt national security. He deserved to die.

>>80489825
feminism

>>80490288
He said villain.

>>80492351

Glorious kingdom isn't going build itself now is it?

>>80489849
eyyyyyyyyyy

My favorite was Colonel Kurtz. Also, movie Hannibal was a far less entertaining villain than show Hannibal.

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>>80489768
Could he have been saved /tv/?

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>>80489825
>>80489825
Meruem King of Ants

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>>80489768
>Shit tier
>just evil

that is the most retarded list

>>80491978

Going by the graph he's shit tier. He literally just wanted to consolidate all the fortune and power in the world within American borders. He wanted global iniquity. He also lacked the presence and charisma to avoid being upstaged by DIO for cheap zawarudo nostalgia

>>80489768
>Joker in meh tier

just because something is popular doesn't mean it's automatically bad.

Clearly there's some subconcious allure to a person treating life as a joke and somehow being powerful solely for that reason.

Joker is closer to a thematic force personified rather than just a random crazy person. Think Chigurh in No Country for Old Men.

>>80493873
He fought for America. That's more than you can say for yourself.

>>80493873
>t. globalist with no sense of [PATRIOTISM]

>>80489876
Donovan

Ganondorf isn't just doing evil things for evil, he's doing these things because his people were at war with Hyrule, he was in the castle to sign a treaty( he was really planning to overthrow the king of Hyrule) even if not Ganon is just following his nature.

>>80490266
exactly

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>>80490200
poor Manta.
his only crime was autism.

>>80489825
Light

>>80489768
>/tv/ actually watching and even fucking discussing anime-shit for fucking weeabo human scum
Damn, I'm dissapointed in you guys. You're not even big anymore.

>>80489825
The little girl from the Silent Hill movie.

But Hannibal isn't even the villain in the movie, he's Clarice's ally.