Why did the Valar expect mankind to be able to deal with "its

>>79505602
Elrond and Galadriel could easily have killed Shelob, and possibly the Balrog and Saruman

>>79505766
But they didn't really do anything

>>79505602
Because the Numenorians fucked up. And something to do with men being the real chosen peoples of Eru, those who would inherit the earth in the end, those who would end the perils caused by the elves. Those gifted with death.

The Valar knew they fucked up, but they also knew they couldn't just fix the problem they caused, as it would lead to more problems. They essentially just had to stop, which they did and when the elves left literally all sign of their existence left with them.

>>79505602
In case you haven't figured it out yet the Valar were massive fuck ups who couldn't do anything right and Iluvatar basically just wanted to watch
Tolkien's message was "Angels are shit and God is a cuck"

>>79505602
eagle rates were skyrocketing at the time, they couldn't afford to pay for the extra overhead

>>79505602
It was the Elves who forged the 19 rings. It was Númenóreans who spared Sauron. It was Isildur who didn't destroy the Ring. It was the Easterlings and Southrons who provided much of Sauron's armies.

Basically if all the Elves and Men had joined up and worked together from the start Sauron would have never been a problem to start with. It was only their own weaknesses that caused him to become a threat.

>>79505935
Yeah, man and you're pitting mortals against the will of a literal angel and blaming the men for falling
Elves are another story altogether, but elves were ruined by the Valar to begin with when they brought them to Valinor
If the Valar had never intervened and left the elves to mill about themselves in their ancestral home they'd been fine
It was the Valar's actions that led to shit like the Silmarils being even created

>>79506050
Oh and also it was the Valar who spared Melkor the first time they caught him and even let him out of his imprisonment after a bit for good behavior

>>79505602
They wanted them to develop efficient tax policies.

>>79505602
The last time the Valar intervened they sunk an entire continent.
>>79505766
Sauron keeps Shelob as a pet. What relevance does she have?

>>79506050
>Yeah, man and you're pitting mortals against the will of a literal angel and blaming the men for falling
Since plenty of Men did resist Sauron yes it is their fault for failing. The only real exception to that is blaming Isildur for not destroying the Ring could be considered unfair.

>If the Valar had never intervened and left the elves to mill about themselves in their ancestral home they'd been fine
No, if the Elves stick around Middle-earth they'll fade into formless spirits. Bringing them to Valinor IS saving them.

>>79505602

How shitty is the middle earth god that it would allow mass amounts of people to be tortured into orcs and mass murdered in wars?

What a shitty god.

>>79506151
>>/r/atheism

>>79506135
Maybe the elves were meant to fade into formless spirits
Besides not all elves ever went to Valinor, so what's up with that then

>>79506195
The worst elves.

>>79506195
The world isn't static, anon.

>>79506116
No he doesn't

Shelob's been there long before him and they literally couldn't do anything about her so there she remains
She's the spawn of basically the Tolkien equivalent of an Outer God who literally ate all the light in the world

Literally every LotR debate that matters was settled in the council of Elrond, everything else is speculation and unforeseen circumstances.

>>79506270
>No he doesn't
Yes he does. He sends her elves and men as food. She was literally even referred to as a cat, which was a throwback to an earlier version of the Beren and Luthien story did where Sauron was the lord of cats.

>>79506316
>every LotR debate that matters was settled in the council of Elrond

But they didn't even start discussing tax policies, the inefficiency of which being the reason that Sauron was able to appeal to so many races in the first place.

>>79505602
The Valar are helping out, they're just doing so subtlety .

>>79506417
Sending it food isn't the same as keeping it as a pet

>The valar are better at fucking things up than the literal dark god

>>79506086
>How otherwise would you have it? Should Manwë and the Valar meet secrecy with subterfuge, treachery with falsehood, lies with more lies? If Melkor would usurp their rights, should they deny his? Can hate overcome hate?...
>Thus the merciless will ever count on mercy, and the liars make use of truth; for if mercy and truth are withheld from the cruel and the lying, they have ceased to be honoured...
>If Manwë had broken this promise for his own purposes, even though still intending “good”, he would have taken a step upon the paths of Melkor. That is a perilous step. In that hour and act he would have ceased to be the vice-gerent of the One, becoming but a king who takes advantage over a rival whom he has conquered by force. Would we then have the sorrows that indeed befell; or would we have the Elder King lose his honour, and so pass, maybe, to a world rent between two proud lords striving for the throne? Of this we may be sure, we children of small strength: any one of the Valar might have taken the paths of Melkor and become like him: one was enough.

>>79505602
Tolkein was a hack, news at 10