I just watched Mike and Jay talk about this movie. They both

it's a fucking gungho movie about low budget space marines killing high-budget bugs

there is no message

Obviously not or the reviews at the time would have been able to spot it? Listen to the commentary track. It's just Verhoeven raging at how stupid reviewers were for missing the obvious satire

They said its more obvious now than it was at the time

Anyone who thinks Starship Troopers is "subtle" needs to be drink my poz cum and die

The book wasn't satirical and people weht into this thinking it was just a Hollywood action adaption that kept the pro war themes.

It's not "subtle," but it doesn't openly declare itself satire either.

It's Poe's Law the movie.

>20 year old movie
>don't watch it
>spend time watching a long review
>spend time discussing it online
JUST WATCH THE FUCKING FILM AND FORM YOUR OWN OPINION
Jesus what's wrong with you people

>>79414743
I think this is why the movie has remained a sort of cult classic that has remained somewhat popular. You can read whatever you want into it. If you want a dumb action movie you got it. If you want a pro-war, pro- fascist movie you got it. If you want a satirical anti-fascist movie you get that too. Its like Robocop in that respect. It works on many levels for different people

I could tell both were trying to project their weird liberal philosophies on the human vs bug conflict. There is no communicating with the bugs, they amass in hordes and slaughter any humans they see. Its great when they brainb bug is scared because humans are chump change to them, the whole movie was about locating it so it can stop commanding the other bugs. Yes its obvious the movie does the corny war propaganda stuff but its satire not some anti-fascism message.

>>79414808
The anti-fascist message is intended by the director and writer. Most of the episode is just retreading things in the commentary for the movie. Verhoeven grew up in nazi occupied Netherlands. You can choose not to see it that way, but that is the intent.

>>79414637
i was 13 when it came out and had no idea it was satire. i dont remember anyone labeling it as such either. rlm is right in saying that most everyone just thought it was a dumb alien movie

>>79414637
Have you considered watching it?

Instead of watching a youtube review and then asking us.

>>79414800

Nice dubs, but I'm as pro-war and pro-fascist as they come but this was a satire through and through.

And nothing wrong with that. It was one helluva enjoyable movie. Soundtrack kicked ass also.

>>79414637
The thing about this movie is that it's so blunt with the satire it ends up flying over most people's head because they take it all at face value.

>>79414949
Well that's what I mean, it can be enjoyed on a lot of levels. You don't need to jive with the movie's message to just enjoy the story and action. That's where most satire fails. Same with Robocop. It can be a critique on American consumerism and corporate culture, but its also just an awesome fucking action film with a really moving emotional core to it.

>>79414808
It is a decidedly anti-fascist film - a bit of a forced one, at that, since it removes details from the book and exaggerates/adds other details to make the regime look more undesirable and tyrannical than Heinlein's. I wouldn't mind if he was extrapolating i.e. "this is what Heinlein's created society would really be like" but Verhoeven didn't even read the book past the first chapter. The meat of the book is less in what it depicts but the rationale given for the workings of the society.

In the film the amputee working at the desk of the recruitment centre is played cynically, since he speaks positively about working in the unit and welcomes Rico optimistically, who then sees his injuries in a moment of dramatic irony. In the book the amputee works at the entry of the recruitment centre to show everyone the realities of war and to try to disincentivise people from signing up - especially if they have false or misguided ideas about what they're getting into. The jingoism that Verhoeven ridicules is also disdained by Heinlein, albeit more maturely (and it shouldn't be very hard to write something more mature than 50s pulp sci-fi) Putting everyone in Nazi uniforms is a boring, tired trick too. Verhoeven used Heinlein's book as a vehicle to react against American society, but the thing is that Heinlein was already doing that.

I do like the movie, it's quite well made and fun, but Verhoeven's """satire""" is boring and childish. The high praise for it reveals very low standards for "intelligent" action movies.

>>79414941
Honestly I don't watch any film made before 2000 sorry if that might make some people mad.

>>79414808
>>79415161
Everyone keeps saying it's a satire, but for the movie to be a satire, it has to understand the source material, which it does not.

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>>79415204

its a different work aside from the source material

>>79415239
>but for the movie to be a satire, it has to understand the source material, which it does not.
That's not true at all

>>79414681
>>79415023
>satire
of what? No army fights like they do. No army trains like they do. No government is run like theirs. Where is the satire? What parts of the movie specifically are satirical of what in the real world?

>>79415161
>>79415239

Ed Nuemeir, the writer of the film, did finish the book. The script for this movie was an older script they worked on about young people finding love and purpose in Nazi Germany. At the end they become happy little nazis ready to face their "bright" futures. They just retrofitted the IP onto that story and those satirical themes.

>>79414864
>>79415161
He did a poor job then, seeing the carnage that the bugs wrought makes everyone want them even more dead and for Rico to do it. Unless the attack on Buenos Aires was an inside job.

Someone do the name >> name >> power gap > name so the thread gets derailed and viral marketing ban

>>79415242
It's not bait, everything from that era is so unrelateable to me and my generation on top of terrible special effects and generally ugly people because of weird trendy styles that don't look good today.

>>79415323
>on top of terrible special effects
>In a Starship Troopers thread
You're gonna have to try harder

>>79415317
Rich>Mike=Jay *small power gap* Jack *decidedly larger power gap* Josh.

>>79414637

you would think so but when the movie came out people were confused

people still get confused by it to this day

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>>79414637
Facism isn't a subtle ideology.

>>79414678
>there is no message
What about the news reporter?
What about the mormons?

>>79415323
Do you realize that not all movies use special effects.

Right?

Did the critics not see how on the nose the TV segments were?

>>79415323
>speaks on behalf of an entire generation
Excuse me who the fuck are you again?

>>79415449
i grew up watching the movie, so maybe I'm just stuck with my same childish view point, but I legit think the movie is just a good Sci-fi film about killing bugs

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>>79415323
kys

>>79415515
The beauty of this and Robocop is they operate on multiple levels. Sometimes when I watch this I think it's political, sometimes I think it's funny, sometimes I just dig all the bug ass-kicking.

>also Denise Richards tits

I never thought about how the movie starts off like a typical action movie (Wide eye youth is not 100% indoctrinated into society) but ends on the opposite end of the scale of a typical action movie (Wide Eyed Youth buys into the society and continues the cycle) until I watched the re:view of it.

It's a pretty good point there.

Also, how can people watch and review Starship Troopers straight while applauding Robocop for the satire?

>>79415579
I agree with you wholeheartedly

It's pretty fun. But that's all it is. Loud, dumb, fun.

Tons of silly over-acting, with surprisingly good CGI for its time and a few spots of upper-body nudity if I recall.

I remember watching the second movie and being insanely disappointed.

Did anyone watch the Fox Kids animated show? How was it?

>>79414637
The interesting thing about the movie is that while its satire of the military state is obvious, it still has the Michael Ironside character providing a reasonable and non-hypocritical pro-military state argument more in line with the Heinlein novel. That and Verhoeven just generally does a great job making you care unironically about the characters despite the satirical atmosphere.

>>79415302

>muh nazis

try watching some AMERICAN WW2 propaganda they're just as bad

I heard the in book that the Marines use suits that are actually helpful and they aren't fodder like in the movie.

>>79416214
I think the bugs are also more advanced and actually create technology.

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>>79415975

>CGI


https://www.behance.net/gallery/15118027/Miniatures-Starship-Troopers-ILM

>>79415579
anon she never showed her tits in this movie bro

It's amazing.
The perfect blend of hilarity and action you can ask from a 90's film. Randomly put it on a few years ago and couldn't stop laughing.

Not to mention it wasn't afraid to use over the top gore which earns it points.

The cgi really looks great from a 97' movie.

I consider this movie my litmus test for whether or not a person can understand satire.
Anyone who doesn't get it (including half the critics on it's debut) are probably slow in one way or another.

>>79416330
Why did it have to be so big?

>>79416214
>>79416238
Yes to both. A big part of the book is that the humans are hyped as being individualists and fighting the tyranny of the alien hive mind. Mike and Jay miss an important detail which is that Neil Patrick Harris' character is mind controlling Rico. The humans are becoming a psychic hive mind in their attempt to fight the collectivism of the bugs.

Also a major part of the book is how awesome nuclear weapons are. Every suit has Davy Crocket bomb catapults and they perform terrorist raids on "neutral" aliens who may be supporting the bugs. The book is very boring and spends a lot of time describing various ways to wipe out foreign civilization and how humans (USA) are great because they value freedom and killing aliens (southeast Asians).

Heinlein was fucking crazy. He was a big proponent of nuking Vietnam and other SEA countries and was part of a group that was agitating for a coup.

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I'm blown away that Mike argues the Bugs could be reasoned with. They're fucking bugs. Their existence is based on expansion, as most lifeforms in fact are. If you retreat from them, they'll keep expanding till they reach Earth, and they'll be billions more of them.

Letting a hostile race get a free pass just because you're worried about being "fascist" is just kicking the bucket down the generations. When it finally does become an existential problem for Humanity, they'll be fucked.

>>79416493
That's why I was confused by Enders Game where the message was humans were evil for retaliating.

>>79416435
Actually I looked it up and the Vietnam War analogy doesn't work as well because it was written earlier than I thought (before US escalation). It does parallel the stance some had to the Korean War which ended the same decade it was published.

>>79416493
>I'm blown away that Mike argues the Bugs could be reasoned with. They're fucking bugs.
You only know this because of the information presented within the movie, which is a propaganda film within the universe.

>>79416374
If you want a highly detailed miniature, you make it not-so-miniature.

I think the movies big mistake was making the bugs seem like dumb animals. If they were a sapient race that tried to communicate with the humans and the humans were still just trying to wipe them out mercilessly I think it'd work much better.

Still, I think it's making its point just fine. At least in the beginning and in the end.

>>79415292
>of what? No army fights like they do. No army trains like they do. No government is run like theirs.

You're completely right but libtards actually do believe that the film is an accurate depiction of all those things. Something can still technically be satire even if it isn't based in reality. Only the deluded fucktard who is writing it has to think it's real.

the propaganda videos and the teacher at the beginning of the movie make it fairly clear that it's satirical. and the level of carnage in the battles makes it clear that the film is not pro-war

the problem is, so much of the movie is either bland action or bland romance, that the movie isn't very good.

Robocop got the mix of violence and satire exactly right. Starship Troopers got it way wrong.

>>79414808
This is objectively wrong. The movie heavily implies it was humanity that initiated the war with the bugs

>>79414737
People didn't see the film because of the book. No one except maybe some vets had even heard of the book. The movie was already half way into production when they decided to use some basic elements from the book like the character names for the movie.

>>79416161
Verhoeven didn't grow up with American propaganda. He grew up in Nazi occupied Netherlands. He doesn't just make parallels to them for no good reason

>>79415161
The funny things is that the bugs are actually more sympathetic in the book and are capable of having alliances with higher lifeforms like the skinnies. Why did Verhoeven dumb them down to literal ants if he was trying to make the space nazis look bad? It's not even good satire when you really examine it.

>>79414637
Dude, their idea of a joke is to repeat something really loud and look at the camera. They're literally mongoloids.

>>79418068
>some space mormons make a small settlement on some barren rock which turns out to be in the bug's territory
>bug's go ape shit and launch a genocidal war of extermination

Sure, the humans did make a mistake but the bug's are still bastards.

>>79418042
>something can still technically be satire even if it isn't based in reality
I don't understand

>>79418056
>fairly clear that it's satirical
of what?

>>79415292
its satire of fascism

>>79418344
its quite possible to satirize an ideal and to show that a society others are pining for and think would be perfect would be quite far from the case

look at something like 1984 or brave new world

>>79414637
>like the book
>hate the movie
Anyone feel the same? I don't even support the political messages of the book, but the character development and growth was amazingly written and the setting interesting. There wasn't even that much action in it if I remember correctly, but the movie was just dull shit that hit you over the head with it's satire constantly.

>>79418402
If that was really Verhoeven's intention I have to wonder what the fuck he was thinking. I feel like he mostly just wanted lots of bug-death and retarded fun violence and vague ideas about how war and bloodthirsty governments are stupid were just kind of half-baked background ideas thrown in for the hell of it. If he really wanted to satirize fascism, like if it was the driving force behind making the movie I'm sure he could have done a better job of it than he did.

>>79418444
If you're satirizing a real idea sincerely held by real people then your satire is based in reality.

>>79418464
I like both. The movie is excellent action and decent comedy while the book is a good coming of age story on top of solid military theory/speculation.

Starship troopers > Top Gun

>>79418243
They might not even be able to understand why thats wrong.

See Enders game which had a very similar insectoid race. The "Buggers" were under the assumption that humans were just mindless drones because thats what the majority of their own race aside from the "queens" was.

Ironic shitposting is still shitposting.
Ironic fascism is still fascism.

Fascists unironically love this movie. Not a fascist myself, but it really looks apealing when watching Starship Troopers. It's great right wing cinema. All the "it's satire" fucks need to fuck off because as satire it uterly failed. It's a fascist comedy.

>>79418464
The lack of action in the book really holds it back imo, Heinlein wrote a lot of better books like Glory Road.

>>79418682

comedy in the Shakespearean definition, yes

>>79418954
You're wrong. Starship Troopers is a straightforward fascist action flick with self referential humor.

>watch RLM review
>why are the scientists only researching how to kill bugs
>why didnt the humans use the brain bug to make peace with the bugs
>why is this society so violent

is this what liberals are like?

>>79415311
>Unless the attack on Buenos Aires was an inside job.
How in the fuck would a bunch of bugs be able to shoot an asteroid across several light years and manage to hit a specific city as opposed to just hitting the ocean? We never see any evidence in the films that they have anywhere near that level of technology, most advanced thing we see are those massive bugs who can shoot down spaceships in orbit. Are they even present on multiple planets?

>>79419048
>Mike "Gas the Kikes" Stoklasa
>Liberal

>>79415449
>Bush invaded a country for no reason and set up a torture program
>Obama had everybody under constant surveillance and locked up huge numbers of journalists
>but somehow it's trump who's the start of fascism
God I hate this meme, it's ~15 years out of date.

>>79416435
>Neil Patrick Harris' character is mind controlling Rico
What?

>>79419139
>Mike "Put the Kikes on Spikes and Nuke Mombasa" Stoklasa

Denise Richards should have had her tits out in this, there's nothing but ugly ass tits in this movie

>>79419147
> locked up huge numbers of journalists

no he didn't

>>79419491
Yes he did, look it up. He locked up more journalists under the espionage act then every other president before him combined.

It was a decent enough RLM review, I liked it, but I feel like they failed to address a major point in their criticism of the fictional fascist society depicted in the film, in that it ACTUALLY WORKS. The people of the Starship Troopers universe are remarkably unified across racial lines, everyone is committed to a common cause, gender roles are comfortably accepted (the majority of infantry are men, plus some women who are capable of meeting the same physically demanding standards, while most of the pilots are female to utilize their lower mass and higher tolerance of G-forces (yes I realize this isn't quite realistic to how capable female pilots are in the real world but it's pretty clear Heinlein was going for a "each to what he can do best" meritocracy society here)), and best of all, those civilians who DON'T WANT to fight are shown to still be able to live comfortable, happy, safe lives thanks to the blood shed by the citizens to protect them. You can argue that the entire film itself is a propaganda vehicle and thus it's subtly implied that we're supposed to reject it, yet there's never a single hint that anyone in their society suffers for anything, save those who died as a direct result of the Buenos Aires bug attack (or false flag). We are given subtle clues that the humans may have provoked the war, but even so, the message ends up being: Yes, humans need a common enemy to unleash violence upon to remain cohesive, but the system actually works.

>>79419904
I guess when you live in a country with western values you don't have to go into depth what the issues with totalitarian governments are and you can focus on the actual movie.

>>79420041
>country with western values
Like Germany? Italy? Hungary? Spain?

>>79419189
It's not used heavily in the movie. It's only suggested that NPH used his powers to direct Rico to where Carmen was being held captive.

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>>79414637
This has officially confirmed for me that Mike and Jay will have any opinion that gives them internet brownie point. "subtle" holy shit.

>>79420041
I'm not clear on how ST's government is either fascist or totalitarian, having read the book a few times it seems like they are still a Constitutional Republic, but they've replaced property ownership with military service as a means of ensuring that citizens both value their rights and have invested in protecting them.

>>79419147

Dont forget Obamas drone program.

>>79419147
plenty of people called bush a nazi. there's even a south park episode about it

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ITT:
50% of people saying the satire was overly forced and way too obvious
50% of people saying there is no satire and its a pro-fascist movie

really clonkers my bonkers...

>>79420138
More like it's terrible satire because it ends up looking like it's a self conscious bit of comedy in an earnest film.

>>79420155

If you cant tell its satire, it just shows how well-done and close to the bone the satire is imo

>>79420102
Well you need to sign up for the army to be a citizen so liberal democracy is dead. The nation is united by xenophobia fueled by propaganda. Violence is not only considered ok but as a go to method for conflict solving. It sounds pretty fascist to me but I'll admit the definitions of fascism are pretty vague anyway.

>>79420222
I can tell, but it doesn't work.
>le let me tell what people who I don't like believe in a snarky way
Le current year man and all other trashy comedians do this. Their snark doesn't mean what they're trying to ridicule is bad. And sometimes it doesn't work. It didn't work in this movie either. In fact, it was so bad here it ended up looking like fascism self-conscious of the infamous propaganda element, making it even more okay to like.

>The feel when you're the only person who seems to realise that it's possible to grasp the satire of the film, but still think it's a shit film.

If there's a running joke that is funny the first time, and then it's repeated for two hours straight, you can still not like the joke even though you "get" it.

It was a good movie for 40 minutes. Then you get over it. Good for seeing titties when you're 11, tho

>>79414757
...do you really think no one in this thread has actually watched the film?

Can someone explain to me the appeal of watching this movie?

I get that it's satire, but it's still a not good movie on it's own. Not shit enough to be "so shit it's good", and not good enough to be decent.
The satire part is way too subtle so you don't even laugh much while watching.

I just don't see the appeal.
If the prequels were somehow satire I still wouldn't want to watch them

>>79414637
>It looks like it's too obvious with its message.

And yet most people didn't get it.

>>79420654
Satire doesn't necessarily have to be funny.

>>79420654
But it is a good movie, even without the satire and shit it's a well made action flick about killing bugs, done far better than many other flicks have done it.

>>79415292
It's satire. It's not supposed to be realistic, it's hyperbole

>>79420670
>Satire doesn't necessarily have to be funny.
Leftist-think for "ridicule your oppones with no argument John Oliver style".

>>79420654
>appeal of watching this movie
Virtuous main characters, awesome action, funny propaganda montages and military porn.

Something I didn't think about before the review is the lighting in the Earth scenes, it really is quite flat and TV-like. So yeah, that was a pretty cool point.

>>79419904
>it ACTUALLY WORKS
So does the society in 1984 or A Brave New World.

>>79420727
Satire of WHAAAAAATTTTTTT?

If it was supposed to be fascism then Paul Verhoeven did a worse job than Bay did making fun of Capitalism in Pain & Gain.

>>79420728
No, I mean satire isn't always in the form of comedy. It often is, but not always.

>>79420261
>Liberal democracy is dead.
But everything that isn't liberal democracy isn't fascism. The state in ST still has a constitution, a civilian government, and those people who are citizens have the power to vote and set policy.
>Fueled by xenophobia and propaganda.
I'd say more just fueled by war in general, there are some issues spoken of briefly in the book, the chief one being that in peacetime the military has to basically invent new shit jobs to continue producing voting citizens.
>Violence is more accepted.
This isn't in any way a fascist idea.

They do have total social mobilization during times of crisis, however they lack a central dictator with supreme power over the state. They aren't imperialist (they don't aggressively expand into other species spheres of influence) and they don't advocate for political violence (partially because there is very little political division in their society).

Why didn't they just nuke the shit out of Klendathu?

>>79420793
Pain and Gain was a fantastic satire of capitalism, or at least of the american idea of capitalism.

>>79420923
>Their American Dream is bigger than yours
I can't see how anybody disliked that movie. It's funny that Mike and Jay are so clever for 'getting' Starship Troopers, which is just a stupid action movie where the heroes dress like Nazis, while they shit on Pain & Gain for daring to do anything other than take a giant shit on people who did bad things.

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>>79414637
It was a cool review of a 90s flick that I never watched in the 90s, but remember the poster art of "fondly".

So many autistic people in this thread...

>>79421019
Which now includes you.

>>79416363

>I consider this movie my litmus test for whether or not a person can understand satire

Well that's ironic then isn't it.

>>79418082
>No one except maybe some vets had even heard of the book.
Are you dumb? Heinlein is considered a grandmaster of the genre. It's not obscure at all.

>>79418985
but i want everything to be unfascist but i really like this movie what should i do now anon??

pls respond soon

>>79420654

If you're going to redefine words to suit yourself then no wonder you miss the point so easily, or are just flat out wrong.

Satire doesn't necessarily have to be funny.

>>79418243
They told the mormon not to go there. The news story talks about how they moved into the quarantine zone illegally.

>>79414637
>both say its full of subtlety
>both say its blatantly a fascist society that brainwashes the people

They're both wrong, it's obviously a satire but the military industrial complex is not as obvious a message, at least at the time of its release.

>>79421144
Okay then it isn't even funny.
Just tell me what do you enjoy in this movie, why do you like it?

>>79418682
Speaking as a Fascist,

>>79421198

I don't. I think it's overrated on every level. I just hate it when people use words they don't know the definition of.

Bit like Fascism now. It's been repurposed to suit the needs of anyone who wants to whinge about modern society.

>>79418042
>libtards actually do believe that the film is an accurate depiction of all those things.
wut

>>79414637
What other scifis from this period have the Verhoeven feel?

>>79421198
Different Anon here, I like it mostly because it's a pretty fun action movie with excellent special effects for the time, and it led me to the book which I thoroughly enjoyed.

>>79421261
Total Recall, Robocop, Hardware, Wild Zero, Bio-Zombie, Screamers.

I tried.

>>79420261
>Well you need to sign up for the army to be a citizen
No. Any civil service qualifies the conditions. They go out of their way in the book to discourage people from joining the army because they have too many people enlisted as it is.

It's satirical in that it pokes fun at the society (the most glaring being the maimed recruiter saying happily that the Mobil Infantry made him the man he was today), while taking the form of a propaganda film for that society.
I mean think about it, handsome boy goes off to war, has wild adventures and gets the girl. Then when his girl dies he doesn't get sad, no he gets MAD at the bugs that killed his girl. Wrap it all up with him saving the day and everyone being heroes.


Would you like to know more?

>>79421596
>the most glaring being the maimed recruiter saying happily that the Mobil Infantry made him the man he was today
The whole point in that was scare people away rom joining. In the book rico bumps into the same guy wearing prosthetics that look just like real flesh. He tells him its all an act.

>>79421674
Yes, in the book that's the point. The movie has a completely different message than the book does.

>>79414743
>being this retarded

>>79420303
He's obviously talking about OP you utter faggot

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There are people in THIS THREAD who have no idea what satire is even when it is smaking them in the face with Verhoeven's dick

I think everyone understands that it's a propaganda movie. It is a satire. But I think it's more of a satire of a propaganda movie than a satire of fascism and militarism. For a political satire it's too shallow and doesn't delve deep enough into the fabrics of that society.

It is a sort of blue-balling.

>>79416559
fucking this. Why does barely anyone acknowledge the fact that this is supposed to be a propaganda film within the universe?

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>>79414637
It's still a great and fun movie famalam.

The theme doesn't just apply to fascists, it applies to all humans since in a time of war we dehumanize our enemies as bugs needing to be squashed, by means of propaganda for example people of all colors and creeds can be brainwashed into exterminating any species even their neighbors simply by being exposed to dehumanization overtime.

I was 12 when i saw this and even at that age i understood the satirical message and that it was supposed to be propaganda.

>>79415239
It doesn't have to understand the source if it's not satirizing the source

>>79416493
>these sci fi bugs in a movie from space must act just like ants because that's my only irl reference point, even though the brain bugs were specifically stated to be intelligent and have emotions
Ok anon

>>79418042
And dumbfucks like you actually think your straw man is an accurate representation of what libtards think

>>79415311
>He did a poor job then

No, that's just the nature of anti-war and anti-fascist movies--they still have the seductive ideologies in them, and easily support within the viewer ideas the creator claims to be "against."

Where is that PG-13 remake?

>people arguing that the movie isn't satire because the society it depicts isnt realistic
>people arguing it's pro-fascist

How fucking dumb can you be?

>>79427261
It's either a failed satire or fascist because it doesn't exagerate anything except the hilarious propaganda snippets. Characters, story, action is all genuine and lovable. If this is satire, so is James Bond. Or any other action hero.

>>79427317
You're a retard. No seriously, you're fucking retarded. Retard.

A movie that depicts a society that
- depends on the proliferation of war
- is implied to nuke a whole city to start war
- is as brainwashing people to send them to an eternal meatgrinder
- is as being thoughtless, cruel, careless concerning it's members
is pro fascist?

The characters are not genuine, they are cardboard cut-outs. They are satirized typical action stars. They are vapid, hollow and stupid. Like you.

The story is a generic war propaganda story in a cruel, uncaring society that isn't actually worth defending and a fabricated enemy. It's thus turning all it's tropes on it's head.

If you actively like the characters and the story and can't see for a second what's beneath that, you're fucking lobotomized.

>>79427443
I'm not seeing any brainwashing or any special cruelty. It looks more ordered, easy to live and virute orientated that our current society.

The implication ain't clear. And it doesn't depend on war, but thrive off of it when it happens. It's also a democracy and not real fascism. Pretty great desu.

>>79427483
Ah, you're a /pol/tard. I won't argue with you anymore. I mean if the nazi uniforms actually make you horny instead of realizing what you're watching, all hope is lost for you.

>>79427511
Eh, the uniforms are mediocre. If they were actual nazi stuff, the movie would be too dark.

>lol satire
>it's not it's genuinely nice
>LOL POLTARD
Good job anon

>>79427559
I mean, if you can't see how the society in the movie isn't turning young adults into war hungry psychopaths with the depicted education and how that's actually a bad thing there is nothing I have to say to you.

Just because you actually are some kind of right wing nut and like that kind of stuff doesn't make it not satirical.

the point of satire isn't to be subtle. that's just bad satire that ends up being counter-productive because the people you should be challenging are going to enjoy it unironically. good satire is a sledgehammer

that said, Starship Troopers isn't a sledgehammer. the farcical stuff doesn't have the bite of satire, it just there as a wink-wink to anyone who's in on the joke. if you want to take it seriously there's nothing there to really challenge you. I'm sure that this movie was a boon for enlistment. possibly even moreso than the book, which was earnestly pro-militarism but also more truthful about the unglamorous tedium of service.

Starship Troopers is a case of a director wanting to make a stupid, fun movie but needing to do so from behind a veneer of irony to protect his own status as an intellectual. people want to pretend that it's "brilliant satire" as their own self-permission to enjoy it. it's a big hipster circlejerk amounting to nothing except that Starship Troopers is a really entertaining movie

>>79427636
>good satire is a sledgehammer

citation needed

>>79419099
in the movie they talk about how the AA plasma bugs shot it out of a asteroid field towards earth.

>>79427617
Less propaganda than in my schooling and media system. Since when is having a firm resolve and fighting to prove your integrity and honor brainwashing?

>ITS BRAINWASHING BECAUSE I SAY SO
>U RIGHT WING GUN NUT
okey senpai

>>79427703
>>79419099
also in the books they can create wormholes

>>79420891
Because they need to keep fighting

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>>79415292
Sure thing.

>>79414678
I was 16 when I watched in the theater and even at the age I was able to understand its message.

>>79415311
>He did a poor job then
No he didn't, your comprehension is just very low.

>>79416493
Wow you don't get do you, the bugs are just fighting for their colonies.

>>79417730
>I think the movies big mistake was making the bugs seem like dumb animals
That was the point, we only see them from the eyes of the soldiers who are fighting them, any enemy will look like a savage animal.

>>79418682
You're the one who failed to understand such a simple concept, it basically exposed right wing totalitarian war campaign and its immoral lack of humanity.

>>79417730
Dude, why do you think that one bug had cute googly eyes? What do you think the purpose of the whole "it feels fear" scene was.

The movie is implying that they are actually intelligent species.

But consider the following. If the only thing you saw about a race was footage of it on a battlefield, you'd think that race was just a savage bloodthirsty species.

>>79427703
>sub-light speed projectile being fired from another solar system somehow immediately sends an asteroid to Buenos Aires
Yeah I don't think so tim. They would have had to have fired that shot during the fucking middle ages to have an asteroid hit Buenos Aires at the time of the film.

The movie implies its an inside job.

>>79427742
Doesn't matter because we're talking about the film not the book. The bugs in the book are also able to have intergalactic alliences with other races.

In the film they dont even seem like a space fairing species.

>>79414800

Delicious multi-layers

>>79414678
>Verhoeven movie
>no message
get a load of this pleb

>>79414637
>Reddit Letter Media does a review on a movie
>Massive rise in threads of said movie
pottery

>>79417730
Did you miss the entire highschool biology part, the two scientists debating, the news infobites, and the last scene where they capture the brainbug? Did you even watch the movie?

>Humans are mercilessly trying to eradicate a species that kills them on sight, nuked a city on homeplanet and destroyed/captured Zegama Beach
Sounds about right to me.

>>79415239
>Everyone keeps saying it's a satire, but for the movie to be a satire, it has to understand the source material, which it does not.

Don't mistake an attempt to subvert for an inability to comprehend.

>>79414637
>but it certainly doesn't look very subtle to me
It isn't, and yet it was too subtle for so many reviewers at the time of its release.

>>79414743
Jesus christ

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Alright folks, it's that time again. I'm here to give you the truth, the truth that THE GLOBALIST ELITES don't want you to know.

Are you ready for the big enchilada folks? From my research with good sources, and you've never known me to lie about my sources folks, I can tell you.

BUENOS AIRES WAS AN INSIDE JOB

THERE WAS NO METEOR FOLKS

WAKE UP PEOPLE

>>79427877

THE ONLY GOOD JAP IS A DEAD JAP

Anyone who can't see the satire in this film is an idiot.

With that said, Verhoeven didn't even read the original book but deemed it to be pro-fascist when it clearly wasn't. He's retarded too.

Verhoven isn't a subtle person.

>>79419904
>the majority of infantry are men, plus some women who are capable of meeting the same physically demanding standards
One woman is too many if they're attempting any veneer of realism while maintaining a vaguely competent infantry corps.

>>79414637
Here's my take. The directors meant to do it as a satirical version of Henlein. And viewers would definitely detect some fucked up militarism. But ultimately the satire fails and the Space Nazis end up being the good guys. Weird good guys, but certainly preferable to bugs.

>>79414678
This. The movie is a meta propaganda peice and an ode to propaganda. There is no anti-authoritarian message its a celebration of propaganda tactics.

>>79418525
I agree with everything u say sir amd have fought this fight before. God speed young anon and expose tgis movie for the trite celebration of propaganda that it is

>>79428307
It exposed liberals as strawmaning faggots and showed excelence humans can achieve. I can point out just fine which parts are supposed to be satire, but when I point to them, I point to liberal illness thinking this is somehow bad.

>>79429638
If you think the scenes of propaganda videos showing kids excited about joining the military is celebrating propaganda, then you're a complete idiot.

With that said, your stupidity is evident even without that. Good luck making it to middle school.

>>79419139
>Mike "BBC is alright with me" Stoklassa
>not liberal

>>79429672
You know, come to think of it I can see why Starship Troopers is so popular with the right.

>You will be depicted as fascists and exposed to ridicule but ultimately your cause is just and right

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>Mike and Jay think Paul Verhoven is "subtle"
>Mike and Jay think Daisy Ridley is "charismatic".

>>79429672
But when you contrast it with the fact that fascists have never achieved anything and got btfo when they put their 'superior men' into battle, it seems a bit ridiculous doesn't it?

The thing about Fascism is that on paper, the military aspect sounds good on paper but the artificial elitism endemic in the social structure just leads to bad leadership. Mussolinis troops were starving whilst the officers had three course meals in the field.

>>79430042
Fascism in the 30s and 40s =/= current year leftist buzzword for everything they don't like

We're using fascism as the second one because starship troopers are still a democracy.

>>79419555
Obama a good boy he dindu nuffin, trips of truth lying and shiiieeet.

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So was Showgirls satire too?

>>79430042
>fascists have never achieved anything
You say that because you consider fascism identical with the nazi regime.

Spain was the most extensive test of fascism. Franco's goal was to avoid letting the republic spin out of control into a communist revolution. In the long run, Franco's dictatorship was much less destructive than a Spanish regime aligned with Moscow.

>>79414637
While the satire seems to be obvious to us, its a simple fact that as the time it was completely missed by the majority of the audience who genuinely believed it to be a dumb action movie.

calling your bluff, what specifically is the god fucking message in this film?

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>>79415449
What about the bonus situation?

>>79429823
Only good bug is a dead bug is a straight up parallel of only good german is a dead german

It a 1:1 reference to classic propaganda with no criticism behind it. Learn some history kiddo

>>79431121
That's because tgere is no satire (ie critical rebuke of facism) present throughout the movie. Critics put that spin on afterwards

is this a new meme now?

>>79430437
You really can't say that with any certainty.

And I'm not conflating Nazism with Fascism. For all it's pomp and sermon about strength, Fascism is a dead ideology whilst Liberal Democracy has been going strong until pretty recently.

>>79431389
>Liberal Democracy has been going strong until pretty recently
If by pretty strong you mean ran Empires to the ground in less than 100 years, yes.

>>79431414
Nevertheless, as an ideology it's still brought the most economic success for the countries who uphold it.

Not saying it's perfect but it has lasted a damn sight longer than Fascism in terms of geopolitical relevance. Even Marxism lasted for about 40 years longer as a living ideology before being confined solely to North Korea, Cuba (not for much longer though) and subculture.