Arrival

>>79212214
I always wondered why she just marry someone else. She could have had a healthy child and a long term husband. But no, she has the baby which is essentially murder and fucks over Jeremy Renner's virginity. Fucking cunt.

>>79212214
>>79212284
>>79212284
She was able to see her future, which means exactly that, that it is her future, so it will happen.

>>79212214
First of all, why should every main character be a morally perfect human being with flawless life choices?

She already loved her daughter (just like her daughter loved her) and she thought that the moments they had together are worth living for.
Renner is more of a rational man so he thought that was a bad choice so he left her.
Every action makes sense in terms of their character traits.

And do you think that parents of kids with cancer wish they never lived in the first place?

The moments she has with her daughter is worth the inevitable heartbreak. "Better to have loved and lost, then never to have loved at all."

>>79212376
But she already had it. This was like reliving it all over again.

>>79212214

What does her daughter dieing have anything to do with the male scientist? In fact the daughter scenes were pretty irrelevent and added in flashbacks only for MUH EMOTIONAL ATTATCHMENT

>>79212376
somebody get this hothead outta here

She couldn't change what was going to happen. Everything that happens after she gains the ability to perceive her entire timeline is set in stone.

She was always going to call the Chinese general, because prior to that she would know his phone number no matter what, because he already gave it to her.

It's a circle.

>>79212412

this must be bait

>>79212425
>She couldn't change what was going to happen.
Of course she could. Blowing her brains out would change things a bit. For example.

>>79212214
see this is why i fucking hate this board

The short story is vastly superior to this overrated pile of mediocrity.

What I didn't understand is WHY could she see the future?

Was it just because of their language? So, everyone she taught the language would be able to see the future too?

What a stupid movie

>>79212457

if she blew her brains out then she never would have had visions of a daughter though because her future was of her blowing her brains out.

>>79212494
yes, yes, and yes.

>>79212412
>In fact the daughter scenes were pretty irrelevent

Those scenes are the whole movie, it flew over your head entirely.

The opening and the ending sequences are about that
All the major scenes are intercut with that.
And even when it's in the present narrative it's eithet a heavy close up of Amy Adams for half the movie or a camera placement of her characters point of view.

The ayylmaos and the "science" are only the setting where the actual story takes place in.

Stop going into movies with hard preconcieved expectations of what it should be about.

>>79212494

She was the modern equivalent of a female Jesus. This film was so empowering for me spiritually.

>>79212495
this means she, and everyone else, don't control anything in their lives and everything is already premeditated you idiot.

>>79212527

unless he was joking he didn't even realize that the daughter scenes hadn't happened yet and that jeremy renner is the girl's father.

The whole subplot of the kid was an ill thought out story that was only put in place to tie into her 'power'. They didn't try to have it make sense, so you shouldn't bother over thinking what these shitty writers came up with.

>>79212537
Yes, and? Predeterminism has been around for as long as human philosophy.

>>79212527

I get that the scenes were throughout the whole movie but they didnt really add anything. The whole point is to show that the alien language can let you relive memories like they are real life, but they could have done this in a much better way.

Basically the whole movie is just all over the place.

>>79212376
That's selfish as fuck though

>hey you're going to die of a horrible disease before you're ten but muh moments with you are worth it

>>79212537

why are you calling me an idiot when i'm just stating a fact based on what the movie told us.

if her future was that she would blow her brains out before she ever had a kid she would never see images of herself with a daughter since that's not her future.

>>79212577

it's based on a short story written like 20 years ago

>>79212599
Then what the fuck is the point of living? KYS. Oh wait....Then what's the point of life? Holy shit this movie is deep.

>>79212537
Why do you think it isn't like that in the movie?

Here's an excerpt from an interview with Villeneuve to maybe clear things up for you:
>"The idea is that the heptapods see life like a [scripted] play. They know what will happen, so they have the choice — either they do it bored to death, or they embrace it and try to be at their best, like an actor on a stage."

>>79212638

Actually after reading this thread I might need to watch the movie again. I might have misunderstood the plot.

>>79212647
this is why time travel movies never work, it's just stupid.

this is one of those movies stupid people watch in order to feel smart.

>>79212638

again, unless you're joking, and i hope you are, the scenes you're seeing in the beginning aren't memories. they haven't happened yet.

>>79212638
Okay you are either an actual retard or baiting.

I sincerely hope you are baiting.

But why could she see visions of her daughter before the Aliens even landed and gave her the language if it was in the future?

>>79212729
they are memories. of the future.

>>79212643
Isn't living better than not existing at all though? Sure it ends in tragedy, but she still got to live and experience life, which I think makes it all worth it.

>>79212681
OK, but did the short story go exactly like that?

>>79212758

fair point i guess

People have a right to life you idiot even if you know they might die young

>>79212759

You're approaching it from Adams' character, but she's basically fucking over her child.

>>79212691
Fucking hell you have an infantile point of view
I'm not going to spoonfeed you, look up any fucking predeterminist philosophy and learn for yourself.

>>79212725
Do we really have to say this in every goddamn Arrival thread?

THERE IS NO TIME TRAVEL IN THE MOVIE , just her perception of time changes where she "remembers" the future just like we remember our past in the form of memories

>>79212816

Except the future hasnt happened yet so she cant remember the future unless the memories travel back in time.

>>79212457
No, if she was destined to commit suicide she would've seen it.

Her future is predetermined in the sense that she simply experiences every decision she'll ever make at every other point.

It's predeterminism because she experiences it all at once. The decisions are still hers to make, she just knows what she'll do before she does it because she can see herself do it at every point.

She is living every moment in her life at the same time. So she is making choices, just all at the same time and at one point in time.

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>>79212759
>Isn't living better than not existing at all though? Sure it ends in tragedy, but she still got to live and experience life, which I think makes it all worth it.

>>79212742
All the "visions" shown before the aliens happen while she is sleeping, in her dreams.
Only after the alien interactions does she get them while awake.

>>79212854
What you arr describing is not time travel.

When you are remembering a childhood memory, are you actually time travelling back in time to that point?

>>79212876

Yeah but how could she have dreams of exactly what her daughter looks like before she can even get memories from the future.

>>79212918

The past has already happened so no, but she is getting memories from the future. So memories going back in time is somehow not timetravel?

>>79212797
Again, just because the character gets fucked over in the end doesn't make her life pointless. People die young all the time, that doesn't take away from what makes life special.
>>79212864
is this a therapist pepe?

>>79212854
She isn't seeing it as the future. For her it isn't the future. It's the present.

She is living every moment in time at the same time. Every time Jeremy Renner fucked her in the ass, every time he at her out, every time she ate fast food, every time he awkwardly stuck his fingers in her mouth during sex, every time she took a fat a shit, every time she got a headache, every time in her life she's living all at the same time and at every other time.

She's actively making the decisions, just all at once and nonlinearly.

She's also spreading it, since she wrote a book about heptapod, so it's only a matter of time before that perception becomes the norm for humanity.

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>>79212759
>Isn't living better than not existing at all

>>79213086

Okay I get what you are saying now, she is living the future and the present at the same time so she can have memories of both.

Honestly this seems like a pretty dumb plot hook, the movie took a huge dive as soon as they introduced the future memories bullshit.

Intersteller relied on similar silly plot hooks.

>>79212214
I just thought about this movie this morning. If the alien sees feature why didn't he remove the bomb and not die, aliens are fucking stupid.

>>79213167
Yes. Every decision that would've been altered by that perception was altered the exact moment she got it, because at that moment all moments became one for her.

It's not so much that it's predetermined by fate as as it is she just makes the decisions way, way before anyone else experiences that moment, because for her it is not the future.

She called that Chinese general because he already gave her his number. For her it wasn't the future, it was the same as if he had given it to her right at that moment.

At that exact same moment, she was also getting fucked hundreds if not thousands of times by Papa Renner, and experiencing both the birth and death of her child.

>>79213246
See >>79212692

They can't act on it and change it

>>79212354
>so it will happen.
Nah. Uncertainty principle throws determinism out the window.

>>79213302
Holy shit, that's even more retarded, why have the gift of seeing the feature if you cannot act on it? This is stupid and untrue. Holy shit, imagine if you could see Clinton being elected and WW3 happening and you can see yourself dying of radiation burns.
I'm so happy that in reality time travel does not work like that.

>>79212537
Are you 12? Congratulations for figuring out life. Now get fucked.

>>79212284
>>79212214
>What is love?

>>79212537
>predestination
>the movie is called Arrival

>>79212854
>future hasnt happened yet
that's where you're wrong

>>79212214
>What a bitch.

Well yeah, that's exactly why Renners character dumped her ass when she told him her fate. Her deciding to go through with it was fine but telling her husband 7-10 years after the kid was born was a dick move.

>>79213334
actually it is a paradox as her ability to experience her future, specifically the daughter was a contributing factor to her ability to learn the language itself
changing the future would change the present, and possibly past

>Inb4 time is linear
in this it is clearly not

>>79213889
Amy don't hurt me

>>79214006
>it is a paradox
Nah. That's an extremely simplistic interpretation that requires time to be immutable.

>>79213889
>baby don't hurt me

>>79213302
Nothing is stopping them from being able to change it though.

I don't recall her child ever dying wtf, when does that happen

>>79212494
I hope they were implying that renner saw the future also.otherwise im gonna have some problems

I think it was obvious that the whole alien plot didn't really happen. She just came up with a ridiculous story about why her husband left her and why her kid is going to die from an incurable disease (or maybe even Munchhausen by proxy?) Think about how ridiculous the things had to happen:
1) aliens come to earth
2) she's chosen to communicate with them
3) the aliens' language allows for non-linear time thinking?
4) she somehow gets the chinese general's phone number
5) the general somehow gives her the phone number AND tell her his wife's dying words

The further the movie goes on, the more absurd the coincidences. It's very much like a delusional person who keeps trying to come up with more and more absurd reasons for why their life is the way it is.

It could also be seen as a pro-life movie.

>>79214048
it doesn't state that time is immutable, it just is subtly shown that they are interconnected (timelines) on a more manifest level.
It is quite obvious from the movie that the mother-daughter relationship is key to her whole experience, her consciously refusing to have the daughter would mess with the flow of what she has done, may even possibly her not being able to learn the language.
as if timelines are interacting non linear.

>>79214119
I think the implication is only adams understands the language enough to start seeing the future/past.

At least that's all that makes sense.

>>79214135
Fuck off Mattpat nobody wants you here go back to discussing games for children and how if you think hard enough Mario is actually gay or some shit.

>>79214156
Problem being, if you drop time-awareness on what is understood about the human brain, then original/changed timelines might as well just act like dreams.

>>79214159
It would give renner more of a reason to dump her ass imo like dude i already know its gonna happen don't throw that shit in my face.The only reason I think he had got the gift to was when she hugged him she said "I forgot how good it feels to hug you"

>dying young is worse than not existing at all

>>79213279
Serious question then
Just how intense were her orgasms? If she climaxed at least 10 times over dozens of nights with Jenner was it worth experiencing at one time?

>>79214135
This would make the movie much more interesting, but there would have to be ACTUAL evidence for it hidden in the film. It's almost like you are trying to explain away the parts of the movie you didn't like. The contrivances you list are just flaws, and there is no evidence the film does anything to explain them away or anything.