Are all modern Medieval Fantasies just Tolkien derivatives now?

>>79033249
>asked if all modern Medieval Fantasies just Tolkien derivatives
>accompanied it with a fanart from something that clearly isn't
good job retard

There isn't much that hasn't been done that isn't a derivative of something else.

The best way to deal with it is to take the Tolkien shit and then expand on it. Instead of the holy trinity of Human, Elf, Dwarf, have Human, Elf, Dwarf, X, Y, Z, D, E and so on. Then you can split them into sub-groups (White Humans, Black Humans, Brown Humans, High Elves, Wood Elves, Dark Elves, Mountain Dwarves, Hill Dwarves and so on).

The book I was writing was essentially that mixed with my magical realm stuff.

File: 1df[1].jpg (268KB, 596x1055px) Image search: [Google]

268KB, 596x1055px

>>79033305
>Game of Thrones is not a Tolkien derivative
Please follow the instructions on pic related.

>>79033305
>game of thrones
>not derivative of tolkien

>>79033305
Multi-tiered city built directly into a rock? That's Minis Tirith.

>>79033428
What part of it is derivative from Tolkien other than being medieval?

>>79033428
Game of Thrones isn't derivative of anything because ASOIAF is an utter shite medieval drama parading as fantasy so the fatfuck can cash in on it.

>>79033249
>now

It's been that way for at least 50 years.

>>79033470
Multi-tiered city built directly into a rock? That's Petra. Ancient Arabs confirmed for being a Tolkien derivative

>>79033549
The character arc of Jon Snow is LITERALLY the exact same as Aragorn
GRRM thinks having an evil horde of bad guys with a dark lord is bad story telling, but meanwhile he has the mysterious others leading a horde of zombies, which is about as cliche and lazy as it gets.

>>79033682
>The character arc of Jon Snow is LITERALLY the exact same as Aragorn
I seem to have missed the part when John Snow was the last descendant of kings line from another continent, and has to fufil his destiny and be crowned as a king to be worthy of marrying an immortal being he is in love with.
I also missed the parts in LOTR where Aragorn was a bastard with low self esteem, joined a military organisation of which he eventually became leader of, was killed and resurrected with magic.

>>79033428
>>79033434
yeah, ASOIAF is full of elves, dwarfs, orcs, demons, angelic beings walkin on earth, dark demonic lords and struggles between good and evil / industry and nature

>>79033808
>Jon Snow
>raised in an idyllic childhood setting by a family that is not his own
>fucks off to go be a ranger
>persuaded to be what he is destined to be in the face of a looming evil horde of disposable baddies
>has a magic sword
>before going into battle against his enemies he is crowned king despite his previous reluctance
>even has the same god damn hairstyle

>>79033808
>Jon is descendant of the Targaryans
>Targs are from Valyria
>Valyria is a different continent
>Valyria was destroyed a long time before the events of the books
Wow its exactly the fucking same as Numenor and the Noldro

>>79033661
maybe thats where tolkien got inspiration

>>79033808
>I seem to have missed the part when John Snow was the last descendant of kings line from another continent

Is this sarcasm? That's exactly what he is.

>>79034073
>raised in an idyllic childhood setting by a family that is not his own
no, it was not iddylic and he was always getting shit for being a bastard
>fucks off to go be a ranger
no, joined the military organistaion full of criminals and unwanted bastards because he was unworthy of being anything else.
>persuaded to be what he is destined to be in the face of a looming evil horde of disposable baddies
what exactly was he destined to be? were there any prophecies about Snow becoming the leader of Nights Watch? he wasn't destined to do anything. and Aragorn never had to be persuaded to do anything.
>has a magic sword
Snow has a rare sword form expensive alloy he got as a gift, not legendary artifact passed in a family from generations Aragorn had
>before going into battle against his enemies he is crowned king despite his previous reluctance
Aragorn was crowned after he won the war. war with evil itself, not political one against another human pretender.
>even has the same god damn hairstyle
not really

you left out motif of love which was huge for Aragorn, you left out Snow's betrayal, death and resurrection, you left out their motivations for doing what they do. convinient.

so basiaclly by "LITERALLY the exact same arc" you meant "both have some standard tropes used in almost any protagonist arc in western fiction". nice, can you check what "literally" means?

>>79034172
>>79034204
ok, forgot about that one. still not as clear "last in the line" as Aragorn, there are plenty Targs running around. and not even close to prophesied king bringing another golden age that Aragorn was, he is still one of many political pretenders nobody is waiting for.

>>79033249
>now
Has there ever been any fantasy that isn't copying Tolkien?

>>79034329
>no, it was not iddylic and he was always getting shit for being a bastard
>because he was unworthy of being anything else

Could have easily done other things. That's what makes Jon sort of strange among the Night's Watch, he had an excellent life compared to other bastards, was treated as part of the family by everyone except Catelyn, he could have lived the comfortable life of a noble, as Robb's right-hand man.

>what exactly was he destined to be? were there any prophecies about Snow becoming the leader of Nights Watch?

No, but there was a prophecy about him basically saving the world. The one Rhaegar made in the flashback ("his is the song of ice and fire").

>war with evil itself, not political one against another human pretender

Jon Snow is fighting a war against evil itself, the White Walkers. Have you even watched the show? Or read the books? Also, Aragorn did fight against other pretenders, like Saruman and Wormtongue.

>Snow has a rare sword form expensive alloy he got as a gift, not legendary artifact passed in a family from generations Aragorn had

Longclaw is a legendary artifact passed down the Mormont family for generations

File: CqQraM_UkAIXLRi_1__1.jpg (13KB, 266x193px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 266x193px

>>79034329
The pure autism of a /GOT/ poster is fucking astounding

Someone post all those absurd comments GRRM made about Tolkien, these people need a good laugh at his expense.

>>79034442
>Ruling is hard. This was maybe my answer to Tolkien, whom, as much as I admire him, I do quibble with. Lord of the Rings had a very medieval philosophy: that if the king was a good man, the land would prosper. We look at real history and it’s not that simple. Tolkien can say that Aragorn became king and reigned for a hundred years, and he was wise and good. But Tolkien doesn’t ask the question: What was Aragorn’s tax policy? Did he maintain a standing army? What did he do in times of flood and famine? And what about all these orcs? By the end of the war, Sauron is gone but all of the orcs aren’t gone – they’re in the mountains. Did Aragorn pursue a policy of systematic genocide and kill them? Even the little baby orcs, in their little orc cradles?

>The war that Tolkien wrote about was a war for the fate of civilization and the future of humanity, and that’s become the template. I’m not sure that it’s a good template, though. The Tolkien model led generations of fantasy writers to produce these endless series of dark lords and their evil minions who are all very ugly and wear black clothes. But the vast majority of wars throughout history are not like that.

>>79034493
Aah, classic. There's also this;

>“And then there’s the whole issue of sexual violence, which I’ve been criticized for as well. I’m writing about war, which what almost all epic fantasy is about. But if you’re going to write about war, and you just want to include all the cool battles and heroes killing a lot of orcs and things like that and you don’t portray [sexual violence], then there’s something fundamentally dishonest about that. Rape, unfortunately, is still a part of war today. It’s not a strong testament to the human race, but I don’t think we should pretend it doesn’t exist.

GRRM on what writing about war should be like. GRRM being a concentious objector who didn't fight in the vietnam war and Tolkien being a man who fought in - arguably - the most terrible war to date.

>>79034424
>Could have easily done other things. That's what makes Jon sort of strange among the Night's Watch, he had an excellent life compared to other bastards, was treated as part of the family by everyone except Catelyn, he could have lived the comfortable life of a noble, as Robb's right-hand man.
Aragorn did what he did because of sense of duty for his people and love. Snow did what he did because of feeling of inferiority and because Winterfell would never be his home.
>No, but there was a prophecy about him basically saving the world. The one Rhaegar made in the flashback ("his is the song of ice and fire").
very different from Aragorn then, he was no messiah
>Jon Snow is fighting a war against evil itself, the White Walkers.
he also bridged the differences between Nights Watch and wildlings and spends his time in getting revenge for his family. Aragorn never allied with orcs or had any kind of revenge mission.
>Longclaw is a legendary artifact passed down the Mormont family for generations
Mormont family, not Snows family. one of many Valyrian swords. Narsil was one of a kind symbol of Numenorean kings with great history.

File: 13084878432789.jpg (5KB, 251x189px) Image search: [Google]

5KB, 251x189px

>>79034493
I still can't believe the nerve of GRMM lecturing about grimdark realism to Tolkien of all people who went through fucking World War I. It's especially dumb because 1 - he doesn't realize a fantasy novel doesn't need to focus on that, and 2 - when he has mindless zombies in his own fucking universe posing an end of the world threat.

File: 320px-Heroesjourney.svg.png (20KB, 320x322px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 320x322px

>>79033682
>The character arc of Jon Snow is LITERALLY the exact same as Aragorn
It's also the same as many many other characters.

File: 1399198899363.jpg (243KB, 691x625px) Image search: [Google]

243KB, 691x625px

>>79033249
>now

>>79034632
>Aragorn did what he did because of sense of duty for his people and love. Snow did what he did because of feeling of inferiority and because Winterfell would never be his home.

Oh, Aragorn ran off to be a ranger and ignored his destiny for decades out of a sense of love for Gondor? Come on. He spent his entire life running away from that, didn't even want to go to Minas Tirith when it was presented as an option at the end of the Fellowship of the Ring.

>very different from Aragorn then, he was no messiah

He was, though, but he "only" was the messiah for his own people. GRRM just took this up a notch.

>Aragorn never allied with orcs

That's because the wildlings aren't comparable to orcs. The "evil" is the White Walkers. I'm starting to think that you haven't seen Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings....

>and spends his time in getting revenge for his family

No, he spent time rescuing his sister.

>Narsil was one of a kind symbol of Numenorean kings with great history.

Narsil was far from the only ancient powerful sword lying around in Middle Earth, too. Hell, it's even more similar to Longclaw then I thought, because just like Longclaw, it's from an ancient and powerful family that built their home on an island.

>>79034855
I'm glad we agree that Snows and Aragrons arcs differ from each other after all then

>>79034657
His feral need to show how anyone can be disgusting drags his work down so much. I don't even mind the relentless descriptions of clothing and food and much as his lack of subtlety. His only tool to humanize great lords is writing a lot of swearing, shitting and fucking.

>>79034961
We don't, though. They're incredibly similar.

>>79033249

No dumbass, because GOT is is actually post apocalyptic sci fi fantasy

>>79033249
That is one hell of a diving board.

>>79034855
>Aragorn ran off to be a ranger and ignored his destiny for decades out of a sense of love for Gondor? Come on. He spent his entire life running away from that
he was protecing his people by being a ranger like generaions of his ancestors before him. only when War for the Ring came chance to fufill his destiny emergerged and then he took reforged Narsil and wen on his quest with no hesitation. not going near Minas Tirith was because he didnt want the Ring there to be taken by humans. or are you talking about movie Aragorn?

>>79035014
similiar, yes. but you said they are exactly the same which is wrong. those are standard arcs in western fiction and come from fucking Beowulf and Greek myths

>>79035199
>but you said they are exactly the same

No I didn't. That was some other guy. Not everyone who disagrees with you in a thread is the same person.

>>79033249
Yes, because Fantasy isn't a genre that is capable of innovation, except some cases

>>79033305
GRRM kinda made it clear that he borrowed some inspirations from Tolkien

>>79034194
Minis Tirith is Constsantinope. the Giant Battering ram is a take off of the cannon used to blow open the walls of that city
> One cannon designed by Orban was named "Basilica" and was 27 feet (8.2 m) long, and able to hurl a 600 lb (272 kg) stone ball over a mile

>>79033305
It's pretty obvious this scene is borrowed from the scene where gandalf arrives at minas tirith and looks at it from afar on horseback.