Flights&bookings

I would recommend STA travel for youth tickets
Skyscanner has a very functional search with an "open destination" feature that is very useful for identifying cheap routes

Rome2rio has a useful integration of train,bus and air timetables that can be really handy in europe

And I feel the need to send a special fuck you to Expedia, for consistently trying to charge 5x the standard air fare

>>1266478
A combination of Google Flights and Momondo

https://scottscheapflights.groovehq.com/knowledge_base/topics/how-to-use-google-flights-and-momondo

>>1266478
This shit sucks cos I live in Perth, Western Australia.
All I wanna do is visit São Paulo in Brazil and Madeira in Portugal. Flights are expensive af cos we live so far away.

>>1266490
Airlinefag here. Their customer service is horrible and their people are barely trained to handle any problem that isnt a basic booking.

Just today I overheard a conversation with on of our agents and a customer. They made a simple typo in their name, and after like an hour on the phone with them, expedia sent the customers to us. However since they didnt "plate" the ticket using our ticket stock, our system makes it impossible to do a name change if its not our ticket. So we turned them right around for round 2 with expedia.

>>1266478
>simple question, how does one get the cheapest flights?

Just book 60 days ahead of time and go to kayak.com and clear your cookies first

>>1266837
you may actually find the costs are disproportionate because you are booking the whole flight from australia

seperate flight (using a VPN to book) via KL might be cheaper

>>1266883
Well I talked to three agents in a row who didn't understand the concept of booking a series of flights from a cheaper country so you payed in a favorable currency

They also didn't get hidden city; as in the concept seemed genuinely new to them

When I finally found an agent who knew how to book the flight I wanted, they wanted 20x the typical commission (essentially pricing up to a direct fare) because "you flight is too cheap we won't get a commission on our end".
Whether it's true or not I'm still in the lurch

>>1266895
booking a long time ahead is always ideal, but life isn't always that convenient

My girlfriend is planning to travel from Tokyo to Manchester but it is incredibly expensive.

We plan for her to make a stop in Amsterdam and then to Manchester from there on a non-connecting flight. We've found this to be the cheapest option since you plans to come to the UK at the beginning of August and then go back at the beginning of September (visa took forever to get back to her).

My question is, how would she catch a non-connecting flight? Does she need to go through the arrivals lounge or can she just go through the transfer area? She doesn't have a visa for Amsterdam but I couldn't find anything on visas regarding this situation.

Any help would be much appreciated!

Also wanting to throw this out there

what the fuck is wrong with the pricing on London heath row flights?

>>1266957
>what is supply and demand

>>1266478
>what is supply and demand
>what are lowcost carriers
>what is kayak.com/flightmatrix

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSxSgbNQi-g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzB5xtGGsTc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlIdzF1_b5M

This guy has a lot of videos on airplanes.
Watch.

>>1266955

I am no expert in this, but I can still offer my insight based on my experiences in Schipol.

>Essentially we are looking at travelling between two non-Schengen Countries via Schengen:
>If arriving outside of Schengen, one needs to cross the border to get to NL.
>Conversely, If one never goes into NL, s/he is not crossing the border.
>Thus, the flight from Japan should arrive around where flights to UK depart. Both of these are beyond Dutch border. (Terminal D 99%)

My guess is that no she would not need to go into arrivals (essentially cross the border into NL) and then cross it again to get back to terminal D from where she just came.

However, as I said, this is just my best guess. What I would do is leave a good few hours (2-3h) between the arrival from the flight from Japan and the departing flight to the UK.

Have you accounted for checked luggage?Sometimes, if you check in at the desk then the people are generous enough to check your bag all the way to the final destination, however, the responsibility for the logistics of it are still upon you. If you wont leave enough time between two flights and the bag wont make it then its your fault etc... However, the check in desk of a specific airline are not obliged to check your luggage to a non-connecting final destination

If I were to have a checked luggage on this trip, I'd leave a few hours between the flights to see what i have to do. this would allows accounting for delays etc as well

Hope this helps. If somebody finds this BS then please do call me out on this.

For visa information please check the corresponding country's Foreign Office. It has a consular section and is, more than often, incredibly useful. From the top of my head I think that Japan is 90 days visa free for EU citizens. Considering the fact that such agreements are almost always reached on a reciprocal basis, EU should be 90 days free for the Japanese as well. But do check the Japanese foreign office.

t. SPURDÖ XDDDDD

>>1266953
Hidden city and throwaway ticketing (buying a RT and only using OW) are generally prohibited practices. It's considered a form of fraud by most carriers, and if you get caught you're fucked if you show up for you're return flight to find your reservation cancelled and your ticket voided.
Admittedly, this is very hard to detect, but airlines are cracking down.
You know how the TSA has no fly/selectee flags? You can get flagged internally by a carrier, You're name/dob will fall on a queue and the booking wont be processed until you pay past fees, if you dont, you'll be told to fuck off to another carrier.

>>1266955
What this guy says:
>>1267044
If it;s a non-connecting flight, that means it's not on the same ticket and the luggage won't be delivered through to Manchester. She will have to pick up her luggage in Amsterdam, which comes after the immigration checks. Then she'll have to go check-in her luggage for the Manchester flight, go back through security and immigration. There will be no problem so long as she has the ticket and she doesn't need a Schengen visa, but you want to leave plenty of time for her to do that.

>>1267072
>Hidden city and throwaway ticketing
By hidden city, are you talking about "fuel dumping" tickets? That trick to fool the online booking systems about allocating fuel tax that cuts the price of tickets? That's some next level autistic shit, maaan. And the cabal of autists who are into that are super secretive...

>>1267086
No, its and old trick for manipulating the extremely complex fare structures airlines rely on.
Airlines have entire departments on "revenue integrity" and will fuck you 5 ways till tuesday if they catch you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airline_booking_ploys

>>1267093
I actually remember bagging someone a few years ago.
He was flying XXX to YYY to ZZZ.
Weather cancelled the XXXYYY flight, so involuntary (free) rebooked him from XXX direct to ZZZ actually getting him in sooner than his original itinerary. So I go to tell him the good news and he responds:
>but anon! I'm only going to YYY!
ticket confiscated. return flight cancelled, enjoy buying a last minute fare.

So essentially this guy ended up having to buy 2 tickets. I could have let it slide with a warning, but he was a fucking asshole to the staff.

contracts of carriage arent really enforced that strictly. (the average agent probably has never read one) but there are some strict provisions in there, both to benifit the airlines and the customers.
Seriously, read that shit carefully, you can payed out a grand in cash if you take a voluntary bumping or go on a shopping spree if your bag gets delayed.

>>1267072

A bit of a related point, but the new airline laws have been made official today in Mexico, and they allow hidden-city flights (as long as you contact the airline before your next segment), also airlines must allow you at least 1 piece of checked luggage weighing 25kg (airlines can provide you discounts if you fly without luggage), and they also set the minimum compensation for delays, cancellations, or overbooking.

>>1267130
thanks mexanon. Im really only familiar with US Department of Transportation laws and I'm sure in Europe its much more customer oriented.

The reasons airlines hate hidden city ticketing is because not only are they not getting the market fare, but they lose inventory.

File: 1385820363543.jpg (96KB, 428x510px) Image search: [Google]

96KB, 428x510px

>>1267103
>but anon! I'm only going to YYY!

>>1267044
this

>>1267072
show up for you're return flight to find your reservation cancelled and your ticket voided.
one cannot book return flights hidden city, as you would have your whole ticket caneled for failing to board the first leg of the return flight

and while airline can refuse to fly you, and shills on the internet constantly yell about it I have never heard of it actually happening to anyone

first they have to notice you failed to board your second flight.
then they have to give enough of a damn to check you left the airport and wern't arrested of injured (pro tip: they have bigger problems)

THEN they have to be reasonably confident you are deliberately using a hidden city
while this may sound stupid, it's entirely plausible you simply missed the second flight by accident and therefore were forced to stay a night in the first city

the balance of people missing flights to people hidden city ticketing mean they would piss a lot of people off trying to catch up with that minority actually doing this

And the reality is a court is never going to award punitive damages for a breach of contract.
if they sue you for breaching ticket conditions they arn't going to get a million dollars out of you, they might not even win so it would be a waste of resources for them trying

there are a LOT of airline shills trying to stop this online, if they have departments for catching people doing this they sure as hell invest in online shilling
they even tried to sue the skiplagged guy

A few tricks that I find work faily easily

A. flying domestically as far as you can before flying internationally. try using two tickets/airlines as often they won't price in the domestic leg at a good rate if the ticket is
B. book in advance, still the biggest discount factor out there
the risk of being locked into a higher price is worth it
C. Pay in a favourable currency, since you are usually billed the whole fair in the currency of the departure port where you begin can have a significant impact on price.
traditionally the high brish pound, low thai baht make this a good option
D. cross the border by land (usually no fee), then board a second flight.
sometimes it can be cheaper as you book only domestic flights, though it isn't worth fucking around most of the time
E. fly from hubs like dubai, hong kong, KL etc where there i more competition, also the bet place to hiden city as they fight fiercly over through-traffic

F.throw away ticketing
two of the best ways are to book two round tickets in the same week, boarding the departing flight of the first, and the return flight of the second.
my understanding is that since the flights arn't connecting you can still board the second flight after missing the first. use two different airlines.
you are taking advantage of the very cheap flights offered to business travelers

hidden city involves leaving the airport at a connecting city, and really is quiet advanced.
first you have to be quiet sure the connecting airport won't be changed
second you have to be sure you will have access to your baggage at the connecting city (if it's a self transfer, you have only carry on etc)
third you have to cover your ass with immigration, airlines won't fly you if you don't have clearance for your final destination. Don't make the mistake of booking a flight to a non-VOA country and not getting a visa because you never actually intend to arrive their, you will raise a red flag for the airline

>>1267322
>>1267072

>Admittedly, this is very hard to detect, but airlines are cracking down.
Be careful if you try this.
>if they have departments for catching people doing this they sure as hell invest in online shilling
Revenue integrity departments are more about making sure tickets are properly processed, Say you buy a ticket on carrier 11/22. If its on 11s ticket stock, carrier 22 will have to ensure their coupon on said ticket is properly processed to get paid for their portion, other wise carrier 11 holds the funds. (this is called a Settlement authorization code) So no, entire departments dont exist to bust booking tricks, but it is on their radar.

I'm just giving you an insider perspective on my day off. Im not "shilling" as you so memeingly put it.
Also, this practice isnt illegal, and its not worth anyones time to pursue the matter in civil court. So you're right about that.
But we do have fun catching you guys, its like catching a shoplifter, we wont call the cops, but we can fuck you over.

>>1267327
A. A good idea, but I strongly advocate having all of your entire itinerary booked on 1 ticket. If something goes wrong, your fucked. Lets say Youre flying XXX YYY ZZZ. If your flight XXX is delayed causing you to misconnect for YYYZZZ, the airline at XXX is responsible for getting you all the way to ZZZ if its on the same ticket. (generally) If you have 2 separate tickets, the XXXYYY airline is only contractually obligated to get you to YYY. so you're at the mercy of the YYYZZZ carrier when you misconnect, including no show/rebooking fees. Sometimes airline partners will contact each other internally so the customer doesnt get penalized, but its not a guarantee. I've gotten some fees waived for customers, ive had other airline partners give me the "fuck you pay me" to attitude to the customer.
B. This is good advice. While some airlines do flash sales, the rule of thumb is first come first serve for discount economy fares.
C. Also good advice.
D. this works domestically as well. A lot of metro areas have nearby airports where fares might be cheaper. Think JFK/LGA/EWR. know the neighborhood.
E. Hubs can be cheaper, but not always. See D.
F. This happens too and is much harder to catch then hidden city tickets. It's one of the reasons a lot of US carriers are doing away with RT discounts and pricing it as 2 OW tickets, as my airline has done.

Like I said, I'm way more familiar with the US market than international.

>>1267370
Careful of what?
These are companies not the mob for Christ's sake

I book my skip lag flights in cash through an agent so an airline couldn't charge my credit card (never heard of them trying it though)

I don't use frequent flyer

The worst that could happen is i get black listed with a carrier, which might suck but would be life altering

>>1267373
Yea you might be right about the risk of a missed self transfer on a domestic domestic international ittinery

Insurance is a thing though, and it's one of the few times getting insured might be in your favour

>>1267403
Same person.
I say be careful because we can ruin the casual tricksters entire trip if we catch you.
But you seem to know how to cover your tracks properly, most dont, and get royally fucked when their miles are cancelled, their ticked is voided, and they have to repurchase at last minute rates. Which is a "we know your desperate so were going to fuck you" fare.

These tricks do work, but not without risk.
happy contrails.

>>1267417
well shit it's not personal
airlines make a big complex system to fuck you, customers ignore the system

they don't think it be like that, but it do

a personal condolence to flight attendants, I just got back from china and the shit flight attendants have to deal with-and around the world in general

>>1267485
Its a business dude. Airlines are trying to make a profit. Customers are trying to find a bargain.
The airline industry is a billion dollar franchise, but the profit margins are extremely thin. Richard Branson famously said. "If you want to be a Millionaire, start with a billion dollars and launch a new airline."

Were not evil. I hook people up and bend the rules in the customers favor all the time. So If i get the sense you're trying to take advantage of my company, my career, I will take pleasure in applying the rules. Knowing full well how badly it will fuck you over.
Blatently break the rules all you want, but dont get pissed at me if I apply them.

Keep checking possible permutations and combinations of travel route. Last year I had to fly from Rome to Dublin. The cheapest ticket was €110. Checked for Rome to Paris and Paris to Dublin and got both of them for €45 total.

>>1267695
Me again after a few drinks.

My prevailing philosophy is that as long as its safe, and as long as its legal, I will so whatever I can to hook up a customer. Air travel inherently sucks, so if you're having a rough experience I will do everything I can to correct it. But I cant work miracles like controlling weather.
Ive been in this game a long time and work in headquarters for a major US carrier. Not "shilling" as another anon accused. Just drunk and off the clock. Doing what I can to expose the commercial aviation industry for what it is, because I do love travel and transportation as much as you do. We obviously love travelers and want you to have a seamless experience.
Roughly 60% of my job is cleaning up mistakes, and rerouting people who's flights have been cancelled.

I dont give a flying fuck if you're going to miss your "super important meeting" I do give a fuck if you're going to miss your daugters wedding... or fathers funeral due to delays and cancellations. Airline customer service is one of the most difficult customer service jobs out there. It can be heartbreaking at times, people need to make it to major life events, but sometimes circumstances make it impossible. Ironically, they will yell at you the least. It's the super important business dude or take a flight every decade vacationer that will put up the biggest stink.
Airlines are easy to hate on, but a lot of the circumstances for your inconvenience are outside of our control. Travel sucks. I get it.
a lot of the hate towards airlines is unwarrented, but sometimes justified. Admittedly the industry does some shady shit, but thats only because they are trying to survive as a company.
Like I said, profit margins are slim, and would be non-existant if fuel prices werent so low.
-rant from a drunk career HDQ airline employee. I'm really glad I dont work with the public anymore. No "shilling" here, just trying to explain how it is from the other side.
happy contrails.

Does anyone have any idea if the malaysia airlines "bid to upgrade" system is worth using?

What are the chances I get business class cheaper by making a upgrade bid post-booking?
...is it even worth upgrading?

>>1267750
thanks anon, good to have the input

Someone who knows a site that shows the cheapest flights from an airport? Usually you have to put in the airport you want to arrive at. Just looking to go to a random place for a couple of days.

I fucked up

got a cheap flight to london, without realizing how much onward flights from london will cost

I just don't get it niggers, 80 euro to continental europe what gives

>>1267898
momondo and skyscanner have this feature

search "everywhere" as a destination I think
STA travel can be jury rigged to do this by setting your "location" on the webpage as the country you want to depart from, then -->flights --->all destinations

>>1267908
>80 euro to continental europe what gives
Are you saying that's expensive? When you break down the price of that ticket, taxes will probably be 50% of the cost.

>>1267913
if euros tax the shit out of each other that is their buisiness

but to put things into perspectve I'm flying from asia for 250 pound to heathrow

...and they want 50 pound for a flight from second tier airports to spain
...with no baggage
...with a budget carrier

so yes, it's total shit
ground costs and administrative costs make European air travel poor value, the only reason it doesn't fall apart is because euros are rich and stupid; and asian carriers can't compete in the region

I will be going overseas for study from about mid-late august this year to early-mid august next year. I know that one round-trip ticket is much cheaper than two one-way tickets, but the tickets with the furthest return dates I can find come back in June (as of right now).

Will I just have to wait until right before I leave to purchase a round trip ticket? From what I have read from searching online it seems I can adjust the return date of a roundtrip ticket for a fee (depending on the airline), is that true? And if so, can I adjust it by months?

>>1267943
What the fuck are you on? You're complaining about flying from London to Spain for 50 pounds? That's a good deal. Maybe you should take a look at a map of Europe.

>>1266478
Don't use STA for flights, i priced a New Orleans -> Frankfurt in late september and it came out around $720 usd roundtrip, and around 20 hours, but when I go to condor's website they have a New Orleans -> Frankfurt for $650 roundtrip and 9 hours, STA is bullshit, you gotta just hunt for those cheap prices and be flexible with dates

>>1268012

Really good question! I suppose in your situation, I would just buy two roundtickets.

>>1266883
This right here is why I don't buy from these sites -- if there is some problem, you have a third party in the middle who is likely going to be incompetent, but even if not, it's another layer of complication you have to deal with at a moment when time is usually short.

Fuck it, you can get the same deal direct from the airline, close enough as makes no difference.

>>1266953
Hidden city shit is almost always a violation of the contract of carriage you enter into with the airline. When they notice it, they'll cancel the rest of your ticket with them -- if you return is booked with the same airline, they'll cancel that as well.

They can, and sometimes do, backlist you from doing further business with them. They can and somewhat more rarely will sue you to recover the cost you would have had to pay for the route you actually wanted, plus in some jurisdictions for punitive damages.

>>1267322
>first they have to notice you failed to board your second flight

Friend, they know exactly who boards the flight.

>Court is never gong to award punitive damages...

All states in the US allow for punitive damages for fraud and violation of contract. It may be different in strange furn lands.

>>1268113
Missing connections is not unusual. Having a ticket remain in "open" (unused) status is.

It either gets "flown" (used) or "exchanged" turned into a new ticket.

Not all airlines target this too heavily, some dont have RT fares (this is going away) or they seldom have connecting passengers because they fly point to point.

Airlines wouldnt take someone to court over this, they tried to sue an online booking agent who'se niche was to exploit fare rules, and it got tossed out of court (as anon pointed out)

So the end result is your fares will get higher. It's one of those things we all learned in kindergarden, a couple of people breaking the rules creates new rules that fuck over the people who werent breaking them.

http://viewfromthewing.boardingarea.com/2016/05/05/united-trying-crack-throwaway-tickets-heres-still-succeed-save/

>>1268110
like I said before

A. they would have to be very sure you were using a throwaway ticket, and that you hadn't just missed the connecting flight (as would be the vast majority of cases)

B. while theoretically they could do a number of things if you breach the conditions of carriage, if they actually would is another matter.
They still make money off you if you skip-lag a flight, if that wasn't the case they wouldn't offer the complete fair at all.

the US court system is fucked and I can't speak for it.
but in the free world a law suit wouldn't happen

it would cost too much for an airline in man-hours
it would generate lots and lots of bad PR
they would only ever recover at best legal costs+costs of the two individual flights (negligible compared to legal costs), and they probably couldn't claim anywhere near their true legal costs because as a small case the court may well find their multi-million dollar legal team excessive.
Punitive damages are rarely, rarely awarded. and are only done for unconscionable conduct, usually predatory, usually by big players

>>1268113
>All states in the US allow for punitive damages for fraud and violation of contract. It may be different in strange furn lands.
I can't wait until McDonald's sues someone for not finishing a burger

>>1268533
suing for damages wouldnt even be worth covering the court costs. You soaked us out of a grand? Not worth it. It's leakage and there are no criminal penalties.

I've been experimenting with several of the options in this thread. I noticed that http://www.cheapoair.com is coming up with the lowest prices, but they're almost all Turkish Airlines. I've never used this site, bu maybe throw it in your checklist for future planning.

I'm going to Europe for the first time in December, on a one way ticket to Amsterdam. I plan on spending a couple of weeks there, then going to Belgium where I'll meet my cousin before we go to his place in France.
I have a bus ticket to Brugge.

Will I have any trouble when reaching Amsterdam with the customs official? Like, if he asks for proof of onwards travel or whatever? Is having a one way ticket a problem with those guys?

>>1268716
>cheapoair
Airline fag here. Most of the mistakes I see on the job come from those fucking retards.
You get what you pay for, which is slightly more than paying direct to the carrier.
Have fun paying extra for the pleasure of dealing with those idiots should anything go wrong.

>>1268716
I've flown turkish airlines a few times, they are quiet good

a lot of the flights that go to through Istanbul can be very cheap

Cheapo air is full of fuck-ups though, I tried searching with them and frequntly times and prices don't match

I heard somewhere they have the same issue as kiwi airlines booking people into impossible transfers and not compensating afterwards

>>1268865
>>1268889
Thank you for the warning!

>>1268889
This.
I've had friends use Cheapo air and it's quite atrocious, both in terms of customer support and airline pricing.
There are better websites like Flighthub.

>>1266478
get flight attendant as gf, fly businessclass for a few euro, on christmas even for free..

>>1268982
My airline job is internal support, so I basically clean up other peoples fuck ups all day long.

I can actually tell you a daily cheapo air story.

today an advanced booking got fucked up between my carrier and delta. They ticketed the reservation on delta.which means delta owns the booking and is responsible for any changes outside of the departure date.


They called us first. I've been at this a long ass time, and I can tell how knowledgeable someone is by what kind of question they ask and if they use the proper, industry standard phrases.

At the frontline level, I dont know how those dumbasses manage to breathe. Pretty aggressive and hostile as well.

Airlines hate these online agencies, for their lack of training, mistakes that are tough to correct, ( I have a direct line to every US airline's helpdesk and can resolve a problem in minutes that would other wise take hours because I'm talking to someone highly trained) and general attitude of pretending they know more than they do while talking out their asses. They pretty much all suck, their customer serviced is outsourced, but they throw a ton of business our way, so we kind of have to put up with them. A necessary evil.|

>>1267695
I have a feeling you take your job a little too seriously.

>>1268754
If you are not a EU citizen, the airline might not even let you board without proof of onward travel or return ticket.

>>1269176
Just drunk and venting, if I can provide insight or info to fellow /trv anons all the better.

>>1266478
I'm a fan of ITA matrix, as it gives you a breakdown of all the various costs, taxes, and fees that make up your ticket. It's also useful for alternate routings that airlines wouldn't typically show you on their site if you have to get connecting flights.

Also like Google Flights for the price tracker tool.

The whole hidden city thing is useless for me as I fly out from a major hub (ATL) and generally check a bag.