North Korea

>>1190662
Yes, spending any money is supporting the regime, also consular expenses go mostly to the government.

>>1190662
Yes but ill do it anyway.

>>1190662

no i don't

>>1190664

cuckold

The worst is when people claim that they're visiting in order to shed light on conditions in the country.

In reality it's a selfish, voyeuristic thing to do. Other than stroking your ego, the only other outcome is financially supporting an abhorrent regime.

>>1190671

um the US kills millions of people and you don't wink an eye, brainwashed much?

>>1190664
>>1190671

With every tourist North Korea opens up a little more. Every interaction with the locals help shed light not on the country, but how life is on the outside. Every person then starts to contemplate how can foreigners afford so much when they can afford so little. While you do support the regime financially, you also bring little seeds of doubt that everything is great. When you have a dictatorship, tourism can only help in the long run.

>>1190699
actually, no. You are escorted by KGB "guides" 100% all the time and only get to contact approved locals. They guard any information from outside most viciously; the only reason they do let tourists in at all is to get hold of their money, that goes directly to the regime. What you spend may seem little, but for a country that has no access to hard currency, apart from this and some cross-border slaving agreement, it's significant.

So, to answer OP, I do consider this unethical.

Of course no regime is perfect and it is often different to draw the line. But when there's death sentence (yes, literally) for locals for possessing the currency you bring in your pocket, yet the official powers are happy to exchange it at the border at a fixed rate for their funny paper, it's pretty clear that you are well behind that line.

>>1190662
Possibly?
But it's irrelevant because 'ethics' aren't something I consider when selecting a travel destination.

>>1190699
That seed is well and truly planted already. Citizens already had smuggled VHS tapes around the turn of the millennium, and DVDs are even easy to bring across the border and show the world beyond it. Anyone who goes over there and thinks that they're somehow illuminating the minds of the people there is moronic. Even if you did have a while to sit down for a long uninterrupted conversation with a local and without a DPRK soldier hovering over you, you're not going to undo years of brainwashing and propaganda. The program to introduce defectors into South Korea is notoriously difficult and even once they've crossed the border and seen Seoul, it's very hard to wash away all that they've been taught.

>>1190714
>>1190729
I draw my opinion from Yugoslavia, because being able to travel and see what was beyond the border and talk to others how life might have been influenced the separatists and democratic movement, but I admit the restrictions were nothing compared to NK now. I still believe tourism is overall a good thing, even with all that bullshit imposed restrictions on contacting approved locals and whatnot.

Trust me, brainwashing and propaganda can only go so far when you're a breath away from starving and can't get even the basic necessities. They've already seen the prospects of a better life, and when there is a chance of a successful revolt, they will. Not now, not tomorrow, not next year but I think that some day they will.

In my country Soviet-style communism was a thing, all the older people there can tell you that the rare sight of a Western tourist was a glimpse of hope to them. It let them know that there is some other world outside where there are people who can smile.

And don't buy this "you can only meet guides and privileged people anyway" bullshit. Is that what North Korea wants? Yes, that's what they want, and they will do everything they can to keep you away from the masses. They're not almighty, though. As long as there's even the slightest chance that somebody sees us who needs that sort of reassurance to not let themselves be controlled fully, we should go.
Also they do bike tours now, village trips, etc. They are obviously Potemkin villages, but they give more chance to mistakes by the government, more chance to bump into random people.

North Korea's isolation is bad already, and that's why the brainwashing worked pretty well there, don't make their isolation worse than it has to be.

>>1190699
This so much.

>>1190731
Thanks so much.

The real reason western tourists do this is so that they can experience white saviour complex

File: 180px-Fgsfds.jpg (17KB, 180x189px) Image search: [Google]

17KB, 180x189px

First of all, ex-Warsaw pact here, absolutely fuck communism.

You should travel and experience as much as you can. Your tourist dollars will not be used for execution bullets, they produce enough of their own, otherwise they wouldn't be on power.

>I don't agree with the government form of rule so I won't/shouldn't go to that country

There isn't a single country that fits my vision of governance, so what I should I do? Off my self or become stateless? Jeez.

>>1190738

Just fuck off. North Korea isn't Africa and nobody is delusional about saving them. You can't "save" them in any way, shape or form as your tours are strictly guided. As a common tourist, you'd be lucky even to interact with locals. And the interaction will be colored by the presence of your guide/driver.

>>1190764
Their financial difficulties are quite well documented with defectors. Yes, they do want the extra money that tourism generates.

Arguing that they don't fit your ideal governance is missing the point. North Korea is clearly and outlier and an extreme example.

Everyone already knows how orchestrated the tours are - nothing new there. Doesn't stop NK from being the ultimate travel bro destination for wealthy white kids who are trying to 'expose' the regime.

>>1190764
>Just fuck off. North Korea isn't Africa and nobody is delusional about saving them.

Really? Mr. "The glimmer of hope in the eyes of the locals made it worth it" and the "If they talk to a man from Arkansas about how munificent Kim Jong Un has been to them, they will join a revolutionary cell to liberate North Korea" sure seem to be suffering from it. They actually seem to think being a white dude makes them a symbol of hope and resistance and not just a couple hundred/thousand bucks worth of hard currency so Kim Jong Un or some general can enjoy French cognac with dinner tomorrow.

>>1190900
>>1191865
So no white people should visit North Korea because of their privilege in living in superior western countries?
Jesus you fucktard(s) really make me question my interest in this board.

>>1190664
do you also hold this same opinion about Muslims countries?

If not you're a hypocrite

>>1191865
whites are suppressed by whites all the time, too, why is the situation so hard to comprehend

>>1190662
no, its not going to affect anybody but you

Wasn't there an American kid who went there on tourism, tried to take a poster, and got sentenced to 15 years of imprisonment? Plus the whole constantly escorted by police thing.

>>1193257
>Tried to steal something
>Get arrested

Breaking news: in most countries stealing things is illegal.

If you're not a retard and follow the rules, North Korea is one of the safest countries in the world to visit. The issue with visiting is;
A.) Constant surveillance
B.) The ethical dilemma of supporting the NK Regime

But really, every story of "North Korea arrests American because they're evil!" has been their own fault. Leaving Bibles behind, stealing posters, trying to run off the tour and declare asylum?????

North Korea isn't going to fuck with you for no reason, but the reasons they need aren't as strict as other countries, and it's always headline news when they do because
A.) They don't deport, they prosecute (which is rare)
B.) It's easy to grab attention with "Look at this dumb American, why is he there?!"

>>1190731
>I draw my opinion from Yugoslavia and so on...
>closed regime, comparations to NK

Either you travelled and draw all your conclusions about Yugoslavia from the early 50s or you're a complete dunce who doesn't know what he's talking about.

If people find it unethical then they might as well throw away all their money and live in the woods with no contact to the state. Otherwise, your money will always be used for unethical purposes, like trading with tyrannical regimes and doing massive damage to the environment. Don't claim you are a moral person only when it suits you.

>>1193275
What exactly is it that you don't agree with?

>>1193257
That guy really helped cement the dumb American stereotype for me.

>>1193317
Past the Tito-Stalin split and especially into the 60s, Yugoslavia became a relatively open country.

Sure, it didn't function like the open borders EU states have today, but plenty of people had contact with foreigners, from people going to buy western merchandise to Italy and Austria to german tourists going to the Croatian seaside in their tens of thousands. Plenty of yugoslav baby boomers even did the typical 60s/70s hippie road trip to India.

Not to mention the literal millions of mostly serbian and bosnian workers who migrated to germany for a decade or two only to come back once they amassed a certain wealth.

But almost none of that had anything to do with the eventual breakup. Now, this is an incredibly complex topic in itself, but I can assure you, western tourists showing the yugos "how wonderful it is on the other side of the 'iron curtain'" had literally nothing to do with it, to claim otherwise is to fall prey to some weird late 40s churchillian outlook on anything east of Munich or however you'd want to put it.


And to allude to some vague kind of similarity with NK is very nonsensical.
I dunno, maybe you were thinking of some soviet country and got confused....

it's definitely a much more interesting country to visit than south korea, which is basically what happens when chinese people get together and try to make a counterfeit japan, but something's just off.

>>1193294
Ethics is bullshit anyway, nothing more than a convenient tool to move masses in a way that an army never could. Go wherever the fuck you want, just keep in mind you might get killed, that's my only view on travel.

>>1190673
Those people had to die for Murica, god bless muh country. But please don't attack our military bases during wartime, that's bad and we'll still bitch about it 75 years later.

t. lardass landplanet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyqUw0WYwoc

>>1194876
Especially at 16:16.

If this doesn't shut everyone up who wants tourists not to go to North Korea, nothing will.