TEFL/ESL English Teaching General

If I were you, I'd just use DuoLingo myself, and then teach the kid what the messen I learned on DuoLingo the day before.

>>1080192
I'm moving to Vietnam in June to teach english to kids. Has anyone here ever taught in Vietnam? How was it? I don't have a degree, only a tefl but I talked to a bunch of people on the Expats in Saigon group and they told me its super easy to find a good job in Saigon even without a degree. Anybody have any thoughts or opinions on this?

>>1080480

People told me it's hard to find jobs or that you'll have issues with the visa come up if you teach there without a degree.

It's good to hear you can land a job without one, as I'm also considering going there.

Do you plan to use a fake degree? Will your school get you a work visa with the fake degree? Or will you work on a tourist visa or whatever

>>1080192
currently teaching english in south korea for a year. not gonna rant about stuff because i have in the past. But this site was set up years ago here in Korea (waygook means foreigner): http://www.waygook.org/

here is one more site: http://genkienglish.net/teaching/welcome/

2 of my schools are bad, the students are rude, etc. so if you have difficult students, just play english games with them.

>>1080489
I'm actually going to finish my degree online, I should be done in 2 years. So no I am not getting a fake degree. I heard it is very hard to get a real work permit even if you have a degree, most people do visa runs every every 6 months. Once again this is just what people told me on the FaceBook Expats group.

>>1080491

Ah, good to know. Would you mind sharing the FB group link

Sounds like the majority of people are teaching there 'illegally' then, like I suspected. People were telling me it's not possible. I guess they just want to keep people out of the country

>>1080498
Look up "Expats in Ho Chi Min City" and "Ho Chi Min City ESL teaching jobs"

I have a theory that some ESL teachers in Vietnam purposefully spread misinformation because they don't want non-degree holders to flood the market and they dont like that the fact that non-degree holders can get the same pay as them. So they purposfully spread lies to discourage people without degrees to come over, this is just my theory.

I'm interested in teaching ESL...what's the best area of study to get into to do this? I'm currently studying secondary ed. and English.

I'm in china and I'm trying to apply for better, high paying jobs, but to do that you need to go through agencies since 99% of schools and employers use them to find potential teachers to employ.

Problem is, most agencies in china are pieces of shits. If you fail one interview, they literally will not help you get another job again. If you cancel an interview, same deal. They're vindictive microdick chinks.

Any suggestions for working around agencies and cutting out the middleman? It's hard to find school names and addresses since the agencies never release the information until you have an interview set up at the last minute.

I have an M.Ed., and I would like to work in Saudi Arabia. When is the best time to apply? What is the best place to find job listings?

>>1080490

South Korea
The land where nay means yes, duk means chicken and the chinks call you a gook

>>1080192
There's a New English File torrent that you can pull a student / teacher book off of. Shoot me an email at tarkaan at gmail and I'll send you some links to other shit you can use if they still work.
>>1080503
If your school has a TEFL program, take it, but most don't. Get your primary language degree and certification, then go work for DODDS. Even if you decide to go to Korea anyway, your teaching certificate will be plenty. Just understand that a lot of the pedagogy is different between primary language and ESL.
>>1080552
Middle East is tricky. The good jobs are hard to come by because nobody leaves them, and the bad jobs are atrocious.

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What are my chances as a Scandinavian,
My rank proficiency in English would categorize as CEFR C1, with minor flaws and a well-developed but improvable vocabulary.

Obviously, I will have to acquire a B.A in English and/or another certificate that meets the requirements for teaching. Specifically the training in teaching itself.
However, I think it's quite a lot of work for something I wouldn't like to settle with as a career of choice. And I'd like to get teaching within 2-3 years or faster if possible, preferably in a relatively developed country/area such as Japan, Korea, or Hong Kong/Shanghai.
I'd not prefer places like Cambodia or other SEA countries, where I would feel a bit too much out of my element, if I were to stay for a longer period.

>>1080681
>That first bit of text.
Yeah, I don't need proofreading anyway.

>>1080192
Did anyone here manage to get a place with just a bachelor's degree and no TEFL? All the language schools say it's not necessary but I imagine it's a factor in trimming down competition

Specifically for those in Japan: what programme/school are you with? JET doesn't re-open until October so I'll be applying through ECC for now; any experience with them?

>>1080681
As a career ESL teacher you will do great in Europe where you have an easier time getting a visa. Outside of Europe, especially in Asia, a lot of people want Big 7 natives.

>>1080703

You can get a TEFL job without a TEFL cert if you meet one of these requirements:

>have a bachelors or some experience
>be in some asian country like china or vietnam
> be white
>be a native english speaker

Meet those requirements, schools will be begging to take you. For everyone else that doesn't, a TEFL (or a CELTA these days) is needed.

>>1080725
>big 7 natives
UK
Ireland
USA
Canada
Australia
New Zealand
And the last one?

>>1080734
>no experience (yet)
>looking to get into an Asian country preferably (South America and Africa just doesn't sound that promising)
>am white, albeit brown haired and brown/hazel eyed (inb4 >white)
>not a native English speaker, but I've been mistaken for American several times by foreigners
My accent apparently changed as I mainly spoke with Americans over Skype.
But I doubt even if I spoke perfectly without my native language influencing my accent, I'd still expect some prejudice from the employers.

>>1080740
South Africa. Only applies if you're white or brown though. And your accent really must be good. Spear-chuckers need not apply, like it or not...

>>1080750
I knew a white guy, Aryan as anyone, got sent home in Korea because parents at his hagwon learned he was African.

>>1080629
>Middle East is tricky. The good jobs are hard to come by because nobody leaves them, and the bad jobs are atrocious.
Atrocious, how?

>>1080740

You will get prejudice from employers no matter where you go (well apart from Europe and North American/UK countries).

I'm a native english speak from the UK but my parents are from india, I have a bachelors and teaching experience and a celta. I still struggle to get good tefl jobs because the employers can't fathom a non-white person being a native english speaker. If your a non-native speaker, they'll assume the same, that you're english won't be up to scratch. There are some that do take non-natives but they must pass an IELTS test and achieve a certain score. If you are interested in teaching abroad, do a TEFL first as its cheaper. I would say go for the CELTA as its better in the long run and it isn't that expensive.

>>1080948
I'm a native Dane, so I worry more about the opinion on someone who speaks English fluently as a second language. I'm white, though I dont fit the stereotypical blonde haired and blue eyed Scandinavian as I have a dark eyes, brown hair, thick eyebrows and I grow some heavy beard, albeit I shave often (been mistaken as South European one time because of this).

>>1080192

how old is the kid? if all else, bust out a deck of cards and teach the kid to play go fish as a warm up. you can learn some basic grammar that way, practice your numbers, and generally just get the kid to relax a bit. it's a good segue to starting conversations.

i've been teaching in south korea for 4 years, so ask anything else on your mind.

>>1080906
Schools that let students bully you and treat you like shit, force you to help them cheat, things like that. There's a reason everyone talks about Korea and nobody talks about Saudi Arabia even though SA pays twice as much. The good ones aren't talking and the bad ones just want to forget.

>>1080977
How can a student do that? How does a student "bully" you? If the class misbehaves, just stop teaching. If the school complains, tell them to remove the student. If they don't remove the student, continue to not teach. Just dick around. If the school doesn't pay you, don't go to class. The cycle goes on. Tell me more.

>>1080948
>I'm a native english speak
>english speak
>speak

>If your a non-native speaker
>your a non-native
>your

>that you're english won't be to scratch
>you're english
>you're english

>do a TEFL first as its cheaper
>as its cheaper
>its

...yeeeeaaaa but no one wants you because of racism. This has to be a joke, right?
>hurr durr it's 4chan so it doesn't count, the rest of the time I'm perfect, I swear!

The fact is that the majority of shitskins in the world will not have a high-level of English, so it's hardly surprising that already-racist Asians won't like you even if you are a 'native speak'. I have an old Irish colleague (palest fucker I've ever known) who had a hard time in Worst Korea because so many gooks didn't believe his Irish accent *was* a native English accent. He went to Trinity in Dublin, FFS! A very mild Irish accent infected with repressed yearnings for RP.

Now I've met tonnes of shitty white English teachers, but (granting this is a small selection sample) the only exceptions (i.e. non-white teachers) I've personally met who were actually top-shelf were an Indian South African, a Chinese guy raised in Scotland, a half-Indonesian American guy and a Ghanaian woman raised in the UK. I actually don't care about accents too much, personally, but I've met several FBIs who claim "I'm a native speaker", but don't sound all that far off from Apu. Vocaroo or get out.

>>1081024
>someone hasn't taught in the Middle East before

And you thought Jewish-American Princesses were entitled...

>>1081024
You won't last long. Remember the Golden Rule: the people with the gold make the rules. And you're exactly right. That's how it would happen, the school would end your contract, and you would be sent home.

>>1080703
You can get a starter job in Japan with no TEFL cert and just a bachelors.

ECC is the best eikaiwa school to work for, bar none. 6 hour work day, 7 weeks paid vacation. Basically the only drawback is that you probably won't get consecutive days off.

ECC is somewhat picky about who they hire though. Being a genki girl is ideal. When I first came to Japan I did so as an ECC reject and came through AEON instead. AEON doesn't hire just anyone either, but they are less picky than ECC. AEON has a significantly better pay than ECC but is no where close to being a better job. 10 hour day, 3 weeks vacation. But it is 272,000 a month, 289,000 if you hack it a year. Also you get consecutive days off and you don't have to go to different schools like ECC.

JET is by far the best option if you don't care about your placement.

>>1081119
And suddenly the school cannot offer a class because it is hard to find a replacement in the middle of the semester. We are talking university here, right?

>>1081208
There's a line out the door. You're replaceable almost immediately.

But I mean hey, believe me or don't. I've never been to the Middle East. But I have been running /r/TEFL for a few years and I've read a fair number of stories.

>>1081182
I applied for ECC using the online form and within a few hours someone from the London office called, said everything looked great and to just send a CV/cover letter across. So far, so good.

Unfortunately having a penis rules out being a genki girl but I'm a confident enough speaker, studied Linguistics so the huge grammar test I hear they have shouldn't be an issue. I guess I should mainly familiarize myself with lesson plans.

AEON's higher salary doesn't quite justify the significantly longer hours and shorter vacation to me but I'll consider it if ECC and JET fall through. How did you find AEON? Heard their corporate culture is almost cultish with a huge focus on selling products and extra classes to the students but I guess it's really at the discretion of your particular school.

Clueless retard here. I keep reading that you will need a bachelor and Im assuming it's one in English. However, I'm still inclined to ask if any B.A will do, as I'm currently studying for mechanical engineering and if I can just take a TEFL certificate afterwards.

>>1081182

Damn those are low salaries. Any benefits at all? Retirement contributions etc?

>>1081393
Nope, I started off in Thailand with a B.A. in family psych. Granted Thailand is much easier to get a job, the same holds true in Korea.
Get your TEFL and see if you can teach maths.
After I got my BSed Biology/general science I ended up teaching grade 1-6 maths. Was told it was going to be half science and half math, got there and it was all maths. I however liked the school and was paid well, so I stayed on. I hated teaching English, luckily my first job was 1hr English, Science, Math a day with the same 35 kids. Paid shit, but I got massive amounts of paid leave and only 15hrs of teaching a week with no duties. Ended up tutoring for extra $ and came out making more than the better paying schools with less contact hours.

>>1081375
Download Harmer or Scrivener off tpb to get yourself familiar with some pedagogy.

>>1081402

did you have any teaching experience before going to Thailand? I'm Graduating with a math degree and looking to teach somewhere in Asia.

>>1081375
>>1081488
Can I ask why people put so much stock in AEON and ECC? I mean, it is the same salary you would receive elsewhere except they have stricter interviews. What is the point?

I remember when I was applying for positions in China, I cannot remember the name of the group, but they were the biggest, with offices in every fucking city no matter how small, and they wanted me to jump through so many hoops for 8,000 RMB for 40 hours.

I just don't understand why people are such masochists. Am I missing something?

>>1081511
None, I did this for 2 years, realized I wanted to teach as a profession, set a date to head back to school and worked another year.
After I graduated I went back to Thailand for 2 more years of work. Last year I couldn't find a job in the US near family so I worked 1 on 1 with Autistic students, now I teach 9th grade Biology.
Get abroad, see if you like it. If you enjoy teaching get an MSED and then you will be able to work in many different places. I might not make a whole ton of money compared to my engineering friends, but I have way better vacation and great healthcare. I plan on ending up teaching abroad again, where I was able to put away more and live on less than where I am now.

Side note, Thailand doesn't pay much. I started there because I studied there for my last semester of UNI. So I had friends and some fundamentals of the language. Vietnam, China, Japan, S. Korea all pay more.

>>1081512
People take the jobs they can get in the places they want to work, anon.

>>1081696
Yeah, and there are more jobs than AEON and ECC. I don't understand the fixation with a "corporate" English mill.

Lucky me, Just got approved for aid for a TESOL certificate. Any tips for prestudying? Or the material should teach me most stuff? I have a great grasp on English grammatically, I am just concerned on stuff I don't know.

>>1083009
Wait so I'm one of very few who is getting the TESOL course and not a Bach, and still aiming for Japan?
Hope I'm not alone, this may be an uphill battle! (I am self studying Japanese though and working in Australia for the next 6 months before Japan)

>>1083011
I already have a Bachelor's.

So I'm thinking that I want to show my children some cartoons, to create interest in learning English, point out vocabulary they use. So 10, maybe 15 minutes of class time for cartoons.

What the hell do youngsters watch these days? Only 23 but I know my taste in cartoons as a kid is in no way compatible with my 8-12y.o. Chinese students

>>1081375
Good luck. I went through the Toronto Office Which handles America too, and was not hired. No doubt the most trafficked, so probably also the most picky. It didn't help that I got paired with the obvious weeaboo beta wearing white athletic socks with his suit. Oh well. The test is designed to be tricky sometimes. But I'm sure you'll be fine. Know parts of speech and names of tenses and stuff. I think I did okay on the test.

>How did you find AEON? Heard their corporate culture is almost cultish

My overall experience with AEON was positive. I wouldn't go as far as "cultish"--but AEON is a conservative company that is very profit oriented. Yes, selling the extra products to the students sucks.

>>1081398
AEON and JET are not that low. ECC isn't that low either when you consider that you work a 6 hour day there. It's low if you want to provide for your shitty kid and save for retirement. It's not super low if you're a single person with no dependents, which most ESLers are.

I think most people tend to be more money driven and materialistic than me, so maybe I'm being too easy on the salaries but it's really not that bad, imho. You'll be comfortable in Japan. Japan is not a country known for fantastic salaries across the board. iOS web developer: http://tokyo.craigslist.jp/eng/5451391202.html 250,000+. KEK.

To answer your question in terms of benefits, English teaching jobs in Japan generally do not provide their employees private company health insurance, but you will be enrolled in Japan's national health insurance which is good. It's really a non-issue, although this is one thing complainers like to complain about. You pay into Japan's national pension scheme and at the end of your contract you do get a pension refund. With AEON you get a contract completion bonus. As I was there for 1.5 years mine was around $1,500. Not bad.

If you are going into ESL looking to get your retirement squared away you need to rethink your life, basically.

>>1081512
>Can I ask why people put so much stock in AEON and ECC? I mean, it is the same salary you would receive elsewhere except they have stricter interviews. What is the point?

Your ignorance is showing. Generally speaking, working at an Eikaiwa school is a Japan rite of passage. AEON and ECC are two of the easiest, safest, and most stable ways into Japan. They are by far the best Eikaiwa schools to work for, with AEON being a distant second to ECC.

If you are talking about Japan, where exactly is "elsewhere?" JET? Also strict interviews, probably the most competitive. If you are saying that you should just go to another country and not Japan, to that I would say--a lot of people want to be in Japan. Immaculately clean, safe, free, open, democratic... can't say all of the same about China or some other Asian destinations. Weeb shit aside, Japan is a very nice country with a lot of things to see and do. Dirty air, garbage and oppressive regimes are not worries there.

>>1081700
>Yeah, and there are more jobs than AEON and ECC. I don't understand the fixation with a "corporate" English mill.

If you are not already in Japan with a visa, not really. Your options are JET, Interac, and big eikaiwa school chains. If you peruse Gaijinpot.com's ESL jobs, take a look at how 95% of the jobs that are not eikaiwa chains or Interac say "must currently be residing in Japan with a visa" etc.

Here's another fun CL add for a web app engineer in Tokyo. Salary? 3,000,000 - 5,000,000 depending on experience. (You can bet most people would get hired on the lower end).

http://tokyo.craigslist.jp/eng/5391632974.html

For perspective, a JET ALT makes 3600000 a year.

For what it is, and the low qualifications involved, ESL salaries in Japan are not that low. Japan is not a place to go if you want to make a shit ton of money in general.

>>1083385

Ryan Boundless claimed he was making decent money and working low hours with his part-time jobs in Osaka.

Tokyosam claims you can make between $2000-3000 USD in Tokyo with several part-time jobs

>>1083413
>Ryan Boundless claimed he was making decent money and working low hours with his part-time jobs in Osaka.

Part time ESL work with limited hours generally pays around 2,500-4,000 yen an hour. Generally the few hours you are given (like, come play with these preschool kids for 2 hours on Saturday) will usually mean higher pay.

>$2000-3000 USD

And that's more or less the ballpark of the average ESL salary.

>>1083374
Phineas and pherb is always a good one, or why not use an American dub of something they already know?

>>1083574
>Phineas and pherb

fuck man that's the one cartoon i didn't like.

Is there any destination in Europe where I can teach ESL that is similar to like in Asia where you don't need to know the language but just need a degree or whatever. My friend taught in Spain but she knows Spanish.

>>1084052
Sorry, Europe is not third world. Maybe in Albania or FYROM or some shit where they don't care about standards, but even then you're not going to get the top jobs, and will be making peanuts.

>>1084167
Japan Taiwan and South Korea are not third world either.

Any real answers?

>>1084169
IDK about Europe but you could def get a job in Central/South America with just a degree and native English fluency

I want to teach abroad and was planning on joining a program in South Korea that doesn't require a bachelor's degree but I got a dui and apparently that almost completely fucks me out of going to Korea.

What other countries/programs can I join that don't require a 4 year degree and don't care about a misdemeanor DUI?

South Korea is my top choice so if anyone has advice for me in my situation, I'd love to hear it

>>1084322

shouldnt have gotten a DUI brah

>>1084322
>countries/programs can I join that don't require a 4 year degree and don't care about a misdemeanor DUI?
Have you considered moving heroin across the Burmese/Chinese border? Very lucrative, and neither side cares at all.

>>1084326
Yeah, I shouldn't have. I was driving my friend home from the bars who was black out drunk and turned left onto a one-way street and went into the right lane because I thought it was a 2 way and got pulled over. Cop smelled alcohol (which was coming from my friend who had been drinking for 6 hours) and breathalyzed me and I blew slightly over .08 because I had drank a bit way earlier in the day and figured it was out of my system since I didn't have much and it had been a really long time, but apparently I was wrong and got fucked for it

Anyways, it was bullshit and I'm massively pissed about it, but I got it and I don't want to give up on my dream of teaching abroad, so what do I do now?

>>1084334
Ask to have it expunged, you alky.

Do you know how many times responsible people get behind the wheel of a car when they've been drinking? Zero. Stop making excuses for your bad choices.

>>1084337
I honestly thought I was 100% sober, I'm not making excuses I just honestly thought I was at 0%.

You're right about the alky part though, I do drink a lot, which could explain why I didn't feel it at all.

I just started looking up expunging laws though and I'm not sure if itll work. I live in Arizona and it looks like if you get something expunged, it doesn't remove it, but more like it just puts an asterisk on it

>>1084346
Talk to a lawyer

>>1084366
I doubt many lawyers know what countries I can teach in with a dui

I just told JET I wanted to live in the far out inaka to go hiking and climbing all the time and they pretty much rubber stamped me through. It still is the most competitive I think. I had to jump through a lot of hoops.

Once I finish my one year teaching in China, I would like to ideally be an ALT at a japanese high school. How do I go about doing that?

It seems like all the websites just have ads for training centers and kindergartens.

what country op?

>>1084427
Tell me about them. I plan on applying for JET in one/two years.

esl is tough in japan dude. good on you if you make it.

>>1084501
Why is it hard in Japan?

>>1084504
Teaching English isn't any different in Japanese. Ignore the troll.

>>1084487
bump

>>1084487
Apply for JET. Keep in mind, Chinese experience does not amount to much outside of China. Everyone in the industry knows what kind of standards the Chinese have. Of course, if you worked at some prestigious university or something, that would be different, but let's not fool ourselves.

As for becoming an ALT, apply for JET.

>>1083374
The boondocks

>>1084883
But what if I end up in the middle of bum fuck nowhere??

I'd be okay not being in a huge city but I'd rather not live in the mountain side.

>>1084888
Apply in person in the city you want to go to. JET has the best salary but once you get a visa its very easy to switch jobs

>>1084487
Most of the entry-level jobs in Asia are for training centers and kindy.

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is it possible to teach with a fake degree in Thailand

>mfw no batchelors
>can't teach english overseas

>>1084888
>muh "dancing monkey/bear"
>muh "bum fuck nowhere"

Why is it that the ESL community has latched on to very specific terms for shit that everyone parrots. Christ it's irritating.

>>1084926
You can even buy a fake degree in Thailand and work on it. The question is, are you willing to go through the bullshit if you get caught?

>>1084938
Did it strike a nerve, ESLoser?

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>>1084947

What's the worst that could happen? Spend a few years in a Thai jail? Or would they deport me immediately? If the latter I wouldn't give a shit

>>1080192
Does anyone have experience with Japan? After jumping through all the loops of the JET application I didn't even get an interview. My friend got an interview and said it was horrible. They were 45 minutes late, didn't introduce themselves, showed no charisma or human emotion, talked in Japanese between each other while she was trying to answer their questions, and were generally rude.

>>1085016
Things probably have changed there, but from what used to he true, it wasn't even like that. It was more like your employer would fuck you and there'd be nothing you can do about it.

>>1085020
>My friend got an interview and said it was horrible. They were 45 minutes late, didn't introduce themselves, showed no charisma or human emotion, talked in Japanese between each other while she was trying to answer their questions, and were generally rude.

looks like she missed out in a full year of that treatment.

>>1085004
I clearly, plainly said it irritated me. Why are you asking me if it struck a nerve? Can't you read?

>>1085004
>>1085020
Lol I think we know who the real "ESLoser" is. You sound like every bitter balding 35 year old ESL teacher who continuously bitches and tries to spread his misery yet continues to stay abroad and teach anyway.

>>1085059
That phrase implies hitting close to him, spaz. Spent a lot of time being a dancing monkey in bumfuck Korea?

It's a meme because there's truth in it.

>>1085061
Working abroad (married a local) but not as an English teacher, and not in Asia. Good money, full head of hair.

>>1085067
>claims to be a jet-set married man making good money

>compelled to spend his time making troll comments on anonymous Tibetan cartoon porn website.

Forgive me for doubting your peacocking, bro.

>>1085096
>compelled to spend his time making troll comments on anonymous Tibetan cartoon porn website.

you understand that in his mind that is actually what "making it in the real world" means right?

>>1085169
Also the fact that he's calling people "spaz" and shit. What kind of grown-ass married man is at that level of immaturity?

>>1085096
And where did I say was jet-setting? It is good money, though, can't complain. I've been on 4chan (and /trv/) for 7ish years, I guess it's an old habit I can't kick. 20 minutes of my day here hardly disproves anything. You're here too after all, you sperglord,

Keep digging yourself in a hole. If it doesn't bother you, you wouldn't be whining about it. It does bother you because it hits close to home. Stop making this about me. Did the Korean loli in your class tell her parents on you?

>>1085187
>spotted the beta faggot

>>1085234
i get how you feel about esl amd it isnt nevessarily unwarranted. could you just tell me what motivates people like you to pop in every thread and post the same comment though?

>>1085326
I didn't post the comment, and wouldn't go out of my way to do so. You made a comment about how it makes you buttmad, so I insinuated that it makes you buttmad because it hits close to home. You've proven my point three times over. The rest is history.

>>1085339
Umm, you don't know me, you don't know my life, so just shut up!!

>>1085379
lel, how old are you, 14? Why don't you go tell your mummy. And please don't slam the door when you run into your room to cry, it bothers the neighbours.

>>1085339
you got me confused with someone else, i just asked the question.

>>1085390
Different guy but really, if you are the supposed married guy you are incredibly childish and immature for a married man based on your behavior itt.

>>1085531
Hah, and not the ass-pained little emo kid.

>matching silly throwaway statements with the same
>HURR it is YOU who is immature DURR
keep swinging, kiddo.

Does Taiwan have any kind of public school jobs scheme like Korea and Japan? cursory glance seems to suggest that it does not, just a bunch of shitty kindergarten jobs.

Countries that don't require you to be a dancing foreign monkey?

i'm in China, and these people are literally fucking retarded and have the minds of children. Even in high school and university teaching positions, they're starting to require foreign teachers to be more "dancing monkey" types and force you to play games with the students instead of actually teaching them anything.

How is the teaching situation in Thailand, Vietnam, or Cambodia? Is it more serious teaching, or more or less the same?

>>1085814
>dancing monkey

I see people saying this a lot in these threads about almost every country but no one ever says exactly what that even means. Could you clarify how you're a dancing monkey? I'm assuming because you have to do what your employer tells you to do? You realize that's how it is EVERYWHERE, even (especially) in USA

Unrelated, but I want to teach abroad and am trying to figure out what country I should go to and I've been looking at China a lot. What's it like teaching there? Will I get stuck in some massively polluted city?

>>1085847

No, I mean they want you to be Mr. Extroverted Personality Plus, Barney the Purple Dinosaur on steroids when teaching kids. If you're even the slightest bit boring for a second and actually teach something, you're fired. They want you to dance, sing songs, play games, have a smile on your face all the time, blah blah blah.

And now they're starting to require it for fucking adult teaching positions.

>>1085852
So you get to just dick around and play games with the kids? In my job in America that's what I prefer to do and often get in trouble for having too much fun with the kids. No offense but the way your explaining it doesn't sound that bad and that you're bitter about something you're not really being upfront about, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, how much do they care about criminal records? I have a misdemeanor DUI, is that gonna stop me from going?

And again, can you tell me a bit about life there?

>>1085855
>No offense but the way your explaining it doesn't sound that bad

I'm not the anon you responded to.....

Seriously, are you crazy? Being forced -- at the risk of losing your job -- to act like a smiling and giggling fool every second of every day, week after week, month after month, year after year doesn't sound that bad? This isn't teaching, it's entertainment, and you're the asshole clown that they're all laughing at. I think the only people who can tolerate this are those who have absolutely zero self-respect.

>>1085892
I really don't get how having fun with the lessons and making them into things that the kids actually want to do is a bad thing. You know it is possible to teach a lesson while having fun and making it seem like a game, right? Are you guys really that shitty of teachers that you can't have fun and teach at the same time?

Also, I think you might have a weird definition of self respect. And how exactly is laughing at you? Aren't teachers pretty respected there, at least compared to in America?

>>1085896
There's a huge difference between "having fun" and being forced to constantly act the fool. That you cannot or will not understand this indicates that you're only interested in answers that fit in with your preconceptions. Good luck in China, or wherever, if you ever actually manage to leave the US -- you're really going to need it.

>>1085897
>you're only interested in answers that fit in with your preconceptions
That's not true, just the way you're explaining it is really vague.

Explain to me what a typical day in a classroom is like

>>1085897
>That you cannot or will not understand this indicates that
Not him, but you have provided zero examples. I don't even think you are a teacher, to be honest. I mean, I think you teach at a language mill, but I doubt you any experience in a university position. Here, students don't want an incompetent teacher fucking around. The students will have you fired for wasting their time and money. I say this as an actual teacher. At the same time, however, they don't want to be bored out of their minds, so you need to have student-centered lessons, which means you shut the fuck up and let them talk amongst themselves with an activity.

>>1085896
Not the person you were talking to, but a school (language mill) might tell you the lessons aren't fun enough. They don't care if the students are learning. They are only interested if the children are having fun. They don't want a balance. Since the children cannot speak English and the teachers don't have any real education teaching children, often they will have to resort to physical comedy with no connect to English.

>>1085919
>you have provided zero examples
The other anon and I told him exactly what some schools are like. Your/his failure to understand is a reading comprehension issue. Sorry.
>I think you teach at a language mill
Nope. University professor, thankfully not in China.
>but a school (language mill)
This bit of your post is correct. The problem is, more and more schools (either because of financial pressures, or because there's plenty of fresh-off-the-boat meat available to fill teaching positions) are going the language mill route.

I can speak basic Erhua Mandarin (natives understand when I speak, at least, and I usually understand them), along with (currently) recognition of a few hundred hanzi and most general grammar ideas.

What would be the best practice at the moment?

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I need to make a 20 minute demo video about how I would teach an English class aimed at university students in Asia.

Anyone have any examples or can offer me some advice?

>>1086014
SKILLS.

University students need skills. Any skills class.

>>1086014
Teach the Present Perfect. Those fucks have no idea what the Present Perfect is. I thought it would be a thirty minutes, but it stretched into an hour lesson. Present Perfect is the best bet.

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A friend's friend offered me an opportunity to teach English in China. They said knowledge of Chinese is not required at all, living quarters are provided and the pay is beyond decent, and the only requirements are minimal accent and a Caucasian/European looks. How legit is this? Has anyone tried anything like this? I have a degree in Translation&Linguistics in English/German btw., currently living in Russia.

>>1086099
It's legit, but they usually give high expectations and never live up to what they promise.

It's essentially the Walmart of teaching English. So expect to work a lot in weird/bad conditions. But, it is legit.

>>1086080

What is that? And my interviewer is a Westerner hiring for an Asian company/university, so he'll know if I'm full of shit or not.

>>1086109
Any details? I wanna know what I'm potentially signing for. What kind of conditions? Is it really ok if I don't know Chinese?

>>1086110
You should read Grammar in Use before your interview. Also, don't teach Grammar to anyone B2 or over unless it's a specific exercise to focus on form. It's useless, it's boring, and you lose people's attention easily. Teach functional English.

>>1085847
>>1085855
>I'm assuming
You shouldn't assume when you clearly know nothing, Jon Snow. Shut up and get back when you have at least 5+ years of experience under your belt.

Entertaining kids is one thing, and if you enjoy being paid for that, great. You can (and should) certainly have some fun in the classroom, but there is a limit, and when it's more clowning around and only games, it's no longer teaching. Now you can green text me all your logical fallacy memes after this, but in my experience, no teacher worth their salt considers this 'teaching'.

Sometimes I'll have days (often right before or after holidays when no one is in a mood to seriously learn) where we horse around more, sometimes entirely instead of a real lesson. It's fine sometimes. At the end of the day, I want to be seen (among other things) as a competent expert, and by and large, according to my reviews, I am. Students WILL complain (in Europe at least) if they feel they aren't learning anything.

I think one big difference is if the pupils are students (at a proper school) or customers (at a language school). The latter is where you run into problems more often. Money talks.

>I like to dick around with kids
>I have a DUI
sounds like a winning combo.

>>1086110
>present perfect
>What is that?
For fucks sake, and you want to teach English? Get out.

>>1086128
>don't teach Grammar to anyone B2
I sort of agree in principle... There's always a mix of grammar and functional English at all levels, with a higher ratio of grammar in lower levels. From B2 you should certainly be moving away from a higher ratio grammar (hopefully they know what they're doing), focusing more on skills, but to teach none at all is a bit simplistic.

Preposition, articles and punctuation are a perpetual problem even with C1-C2.

Anyone teaching in Korea without a degree? Heard they did allow before but cutting back on it. Just want to know if it's possible.

>>1086183
>focusing more on skills
What do you mean by skills?

>>1086201

you can probably get part-time jobs and tutor privately. possibly work for private academies. but they'll still ask you for transcripts.

they do background checks and require apostilled degrees for most teaching jobs.

>>1086264
Basically not doing just (relatively) isolated grammar, but 'skills'. Writing essays or reports, giving presentations, working in teams on projects, actively listening to and understanding audio/video segments (so testing comprehension), and reading longer texts.

>>1086270
How about diploma's from BC (canada)? I've of a few places where they got hired without a degree but had some sort of certification.

>>1086183
> unless it's a specific exercise to focus on form
> unless it's a specific exercise to focus on form
> unless it's a specific exercise to focus on form
If you're not going to read the entire comment, don't reply.

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Any tips on getting better with pronouncing english? I'm from Finland and it just sounds awful, so awful that I actively try to stay out of situations where I need to talk english.
Should I just start reading books out loud? I'd imagine if I just keep speaking it will eventually get better.

>>1086477
First, decide on an accent to imitate. British or American English are the two most common ones, but if you really really want to sound like an Irishman or a Kiwi, choose that.
After that, attentively listen to speeches, to audiobooks etc. in that language. Then, try to imitate it in an absurdly exaggerated way. Pronounce the vowels three times longer than you should, make sure you get all the weird diphthongs, stress the 'th' sounds, &c. Once you're able to pronounce all phonemes, and there are a lot, you're on the right track. Then the best way to practice is to start speaking with native speakers. Try hanging around with expats or Erasmus students, if that's an option for you.

>>1086177
I do have over 5 years experience, don't assume things you ape.

With the tiny bit of information you gave me and the fact that the majority of people on 4chan are bitter nerds, there wasn't much I could do besides assume. Next time if you want to make a point, you need to make an actual point instead of pussy footing around the idea you caveman

>>1086458
Need a wet wipe for that sandy vagina there, pal?

>>1086484
I'm not the same anon you replied to first, so don't assume things you lemur. You're either ignorant or being a coy faggot. Either way, stop it.

>>1086546
You fucking mongoloid he told me literally nothing so I wasn't going to just change my mind and agree with him when all he did was be vague and act like a bitter nerd

>>1086563
Then take up with that anon, not me.

I've been a teacher for many years (it's what I studied in my bachelor and master), and teach abroad now. I got exactly what he meant. It's you who's the mongoloid, being a facetious little prick. Get real.

I have to do a 15-20 min demo for adult English teaching..

Can some teachers here walk me through a basic class of yours teaching adults English? Or provide youtube links that demonstrate a good demo.

Thanks in advance.

>>1080192
English - the language of slaves.In the 8th century the Vikings destroyed 90% of Britons (the rest were second-class citizens). The world uses the English language for one reason - it is very easy (the slaves did not know many words).

>>1086635
>I teach abroad
>I understood what he said

I don't teach abroad, I want to and I'm just now looking into it. That's why you understand and I don't you chimp.

"they make you be a dancing monkey" means literally nothing with no context or evidence

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>>1086662

Too, too obvious.

>>1086687

Autism -- the post. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

>>1086687
>IT'S YOUR FAULT I DON'T HAVE THE PROPER CONTEXT TO UNDERSTAND THINGS YOU SIMIAN CHROMOSOME-LACKING FAGLORD! AND I'M GONNA CRYYYYYY, WAHHHHH WAAAAAHH

Jesus Christ, go outside.

>>1086545
Not him, but on this board, you really shouldn't reply unless you're contributing to the thread.
>>1086639
Skills.
1. Telephone English, 2' / pre-task, using a script
2. Guided discussion 10' / task, no script
3. Post-task where students answer questions, 5'
4. Grammar point 3' / "focus on form" as above

>>1086846
Post task where the *teacher answers questions, specific ones the students have.

>>1086846
>Not him, but on this board, you really shouldn't reply unless you're contributing to the thread.
Back at you, you valiant /trv/ vigilante you. I've most certainly been here longer than you, cuntwipe.

>>1086941
Did you just post that unironically? Holy fucking shit anon, you are absolutely fucking assblasted right now!!

>>1084322
>don't care about a misdemeanor DUI?
just dont mention your misdemeanor

Hey /trv/,

I need to do a 15 minute demo over Skype for an American History teaching job. Anyone have any suggestions as to what I should do?

The job pays pretty well so I don't want to fuck it up.

I just landed a pretty solid ESL gig in Japan. Well I was already here with a visa, but it's kind crazy some of the opportunities that pop up.

I'm only making 250,000 yen a month, but I work 4 days a week for 5 hours a day. 250k isn't great but it's pretty average full time ESL pay so I'd say I got a pretty good thing. Gives me a lot of time for private lessons and stuff to supplement the income.

>>1087132
Plus housing and healthcare?

>>1087132
Is that aeon or interac? One of them offers 250k and one 310k but with more hours, I forget which.

Good gig, but the 250 is tight if you aren't doing private tutoring.

>>1087155
Neither, but I used to work for AEON. AEON is 272,000 starting and 285,000 after you hack it a year. But going from AEON to this current job is literally a 50 hour week going to a 20 hour work week for only 30,000 yen less a month. I'll take the hit. I have two private lesson (former AEON) students, so money won't be that much of an issue.


>>1087154
I share an apartment with my gf and only pay 30,000 a month for rent so housing is actually not an issue for me. I didn't even ask. Healthcare I actually don't know. I will know when I sign the contract though. It doesn't make much difference. I can enroll in the National Healthcare system easily. I might just opt to not have healthcare if the company doesn't give me the option.


I had to have two interviews that involved Japanese to get the job though, and it was referred to me through a recruiting company here in Japan. So it's not really a normal deal and definitely not something you could get from overseas I don't think.

My general advice though is that recruiting companies are good. If you're already here looking for a job just submit your shit to a few. It's better than Gaijinpot.

>>1087181
Okay, that makes a lot of sense, because I've literally never seen a job like you describe advertised on the usual suspects (Dave's, seriousteachers, etc). To me that seems like a sweet fucking deal. That's the kind of deal that would get me to bring my wife to Asia.

To anybody who might be curious, the closest thing you can get to my new job for most people would probably be ECC. With ECC you work a 6 hour day (generally like 3-9 I think). Of course you don't get 3 days off you get the standard two, and you have to work Saturday usually I think. Also your days off aren't usually consecutive I don't think (someone can correct me though). The salary is the same as my new job I think. 250,000. ECC also gives you a lot of vacation.

You can apply to ECC from overseas. It's one of the big language school companies in Japan.

Especially if you're not a party on weekends kind of person ECC is almost equal to JET in terms of being the best starter job in Japan.

>>1081182
I am working for WinBe in Kyoto atm. 270000/month, one school, 35 hours/week. It's great. I'd recommend the company if anyone is interested in Japan with a bachelor's and no certificate.

British guy here, native speaker. I recently graduated and want to go work in Japan. I was going to do JET but there's a problem - I have a Japanese girlfriend who lives in Tokyo and JET doesn't really do Kanto.

Realistically how easy is it to get a job in the Kanto region if you're a white native English speaker but have no TEFL? The only local TEFL courses near me cost 1k so I'd rather not do that unless I have absolutely no choice.

When I was in Bangkok I knew a French guy and a Portuguese guy who were English teachers.

Neither of them had a degree and their English was "good" but far from fluent. They didn't even have a TEFL cert. They just read a few books and watched a few YouTube videos on teaching and lesson plans.

It just meant they were working illegally and for much less money than most teachers, but they still earned enough to rent an apartment, eat street food and go to clubs at the weekends.

tl;dr
Don't let the Degree/TEFL/Native Language issue put you off.

>>1087519
>native English speaker
This is really the only relevant factor that you listed. (there's actual interview skills and stuff, which far more people get turned down for lacking)

If you need to be in one specific area your options are more limited than everyone else, but the process is the same. It's only as realistic as your ability to prove that you're a good fit at the companies you apply to.

>>1087556

Isn't graduating relevant since you need a Bachelor's to even work as a teacher?

I'm confident about my skills, my question is more simply if a TEFL is really necessary to teach in Kanto or if it's a waste of money.

>>1087537

I thought this was the case, but naysayers are always trying to discourage you.

How long ago was that btw?

>>1087515
I checked their website and the website states it's an 8 hour day (so 40 hours a week) at 250,000 monthly. Have you been there for more than one year to be making 270,000? Why do you only work 35 a week?

How many classes do you have a day usually?

>>1087619
All I've ever said is that without a degree you can't teach in Japan or Korea.

>>1087090

Pls respond

>>1087599
a tefl or whatever will give you a leg up on the competition if you don't have better credentials

the esl market is becoming saturated. if you can be bothered, have the money and time, then it's probably a decent idea to invest in one. although, technically speaking, they're not necessary and nobody takes the credential very seriously. it's more like a little badge that says "i'll take the job seriously because i already put x many hours into some certificate."

>>1087698
This is an English teacher thread. Nobody teaches history. If you're qualified for the job, this shouldn't be tough.

>>1087798

It's English as a Second Language, and the subject is being taught in English to Asian students whose first language is not English. It's the same thing. Faggot.

>>1087803
Yeah, I'm a career English teacher with an American state certification in primary language and nearly a decade of experience on five continents and let me just pull a history lesson that doesn't suck out of my asshole... Sorry, can't do it.

I'm an American that wants to study abroad in China, but I don't know a lick of Chinese.

Is it possible to learn enough of the language in a short period of time to be able to communicate.

If so can you give me some advice.

>>1087090
Well senpai, you are in luck. I teach British curriculum history internationally. What type of school is this and where did you find it advertised? What do you cconsider good money?

Skype interviews can be tough, I must be OK at them though because last time I was recruiting I got two job offers out of three Skype interviews. Wear a suit and look at the camera rather than the screen. Other than that, tour normal interview bullshit.

As for teaching a sample lesson, just pick one simple concept if you only have 15mins. The fact that you are being made to do a sample lesson tells me it might not be the best school already though, so they won't expect anything world beating.

>>1087937
There are obviously going to many options of courses taught in English in China. Define a "short period of time" but I can tell you that if you've been studying Mandarin for less than like a few years you're going to suck.

>>1087937

>can you give me some advice

Yeah, don't go to china. study in Taiwan, or just go to another country altogether.

I've got an Interac seminar/interview coming up. Any general advice?

(White) American, native English speaker with an Associates degree and I'm thinking about picking up a TEFL cert. I've studied around on it but find myself a bit confused with all the programs. They all find themselves superior, of course, but is there any that is really superior to another? I suppose number of hours and having practice teaching does help. I'd like to teach in East Asia (China/HK, Japan or TALK in Korea).

>>1089328
I assume you are not applying from within Japan? I interviewed with Interac last summer (within Japan). Was hired, but did not accept the position. I'll do my best to give advice but I don't know how different or relaxed it is for people residing in Japan with a visa.

Anyway, maybe you know, the interview (at least for me) consisted of a few parts.

>Give a 1:30 self introduction on video
This was actually the hardest part for me. Just remembering everything and making it flow. Put some Japanese in there, even just "Konnichiwa, Watashi wa Anon desu. Yoroshiku Onegaishimasu" is fine.

>Repeat a little blurb about Interac
Easy, you can even read it. Just don't be a monotone aspie, obviously. And try to look up from the paper once in a while. Read it in a lively manner. Imagine you're a person in a commercial for Interac or something.

>Older demo lesson
Easy. They even give you a couple example videos and you can choose and literally just copy what the guy in the video did. My advice is to add your own little flair to it though (for example I taught a colloquial synonym for one of the phrases that came up. The guy in the video didn't do that. Also have some Japanese names in mind or something because you have to pretend students are there even though they aren't. But that way they can see how you'd give feedback or praise. So be like, "Thank you, Nanami, that's right, well done"

>Kid's demo lesson
This might be hard for some, but I had experience teaching kids at my last job so I knew what activity to do. You have to pretend kids are there. So again, think up some names and just pretend to praise the kids for doing shit. "Nice job, Koki!" etc. Hate to wax meme-age, but just be genki and smile.

Other than that they ask you some standard interview stuff.

Interac hires anyone with a pulse who already has a visa and is living in Japan, but I'm sure outside of Japan it's a bit tougher so good luck.

>>1089445
I think CELTA is generally considered a good bet.

As far as destinations, Japan is definitely out without a bachelor's. HK is a former British colony where English is an official language. I can't imagine there would be too many opportunities in HK for someone without a bachelor's but I could be wrong.

TALK seems like a decent thing if you don't mind a rural placement. I did a year stint in Korea and enjoyed it, although I wasn't in the countryside (although I was 30 minutes from downtown Seoul by bus, my neighborhood was kind of country-ish but Korea's just like that).

hi

I fell for the STEM meme (physics) and graduated last May, can't find a full-time job so I've just been tutoring part time while I try to figure stuff out, would teaching English in a foreign country for a year be a good idea?

I've never traveled but I'm interested in it, my top choice would be Russia since I'm currently learning the language and am interested in the culture, but I also wouldn't mind going to a place like Japan or maybe even China.

I don't have any English teaching certifications at the moment but I'm wondering if some places don't care, or would be willing to train otherwise qualified candidates? I did see that one company for Russia, English First, say they'll help you complete a course free of charge but I'm not sure if that means they pay for the course or just offer free assistance with it.

So any of you guysscored with your underage asian students?

>>1089495
Rússia is hard to make money in. Japan isn't, neither is China. Read some job ads from either place to see what kind of "TEFL certificate" you need. Be ready to document two years of experience tutoring if you decide to go to China.

>>1089445
You used to have to be enrolled in university to do TALK.

>>1089467
Thank you so much! I'm applying from the UK and the document requirements are really strict, so I was a bit nervous about the interview.
This is so helpful, can't thank you enough!

I'll be short and honest with you: I want to teach English in China. What do I need?

>>1089725
>I'll be short and honest with you: I want to teach English in China. What do I need?
>I'll be short
Well for China, you've got that part down.

Is there more competition for teaching English in Taiwan than in the Mainland?

I can speak, write, and understand a small amount of Mandarin (~1 year formal education), but teaching in the Mainland seems to be like a bitch and a half for being involved or accessing goods and services outside of the Mainland.

>>1089755
Kek

>>1089495
>Russia
From what I have seen, wages for ESL teachers aren't stellar here in Moscow. You will make most of your money tutoring on the side. the upside is that you will practically walk into a job. The tutoring rate for a native speaker is approx. 2500RUB/hour. Russia will be fun, especially if you know some Russian already. You will make more than the average Russian and be drowning in hot slav puss, because all they really care about is money.

Yeah you can make more in other places, but in reality teaching ESL is not ever going to be a lucrative career. Did you see those cucks up there frothing over 300k yen? I mean, that is just 2.5k/month. If you find that you like teaching, then put that STEM education to use and become a HS math/science teacher and work in an international school. You will have schools fighting over you and make some serious dollars. Here in Moscow I am on 50k euros + flights/bonuses, visas and health insurance.

All that separates me from the average ESL monkey is a 1 year teaching diploma.... and a desire not to slave away for shit money.

>>1089856
>Is there more competition for teaching English in Taiwan than in the Mainland?
Not exactly from what I've seen. Taiwan has somewhat higher requirements, they will likely not take people who don't have a degree. While in China they don't give a shit about the quality so they don't care if you're Canadian, Australia or Ukrainian as long as you speak English.

The companies in Taiwan seem to have a better reputation, as in they don't fuck over their instructors.

just a warning if you're thinking of coming to china to teach English:

these chink employers are real slave-drivers. had one company expect me work without consecutive days off, and also force me to work 6 days a week during "peak season." forced attendance of meetings on your off days-- if you miss them you have to pay a hefty fine out of your salary. if you're late to class 5 minutes, again, pay fine. and all sorts of other fucked up rules.

this stuff is the norm among your average English training center in china. coming here to try to get laid while teaching for pennies on the side ain't worth it, and actually chinese girls these days look down on English teachers anyway. literally teaching in any other country is better than this shithole

>>1089547
Thanks for the info, I took some Japanese in college as well so I'll check out some schools there as well.

>>1089884
I see, so for private tutoring do you think you'd have to be very fluent in order to find those opportunities and actually tutor? Or is it enough to just know some basic Russian as long as you're a native speaker? Also, that sounds like a nice set up you have, what kind of teaching diploma do you have?

>>1089992
Once you are here and you network a bit, the private tutoring opportunities should just fall into your lap. I am not at all interested, as I don't need the money, but I get asked a few times a month.

I have a graduate diploma of secondary education, British call it a PGCE. I have no idea what the equivalent US or Canadian qualification is. Anything that would qualify you to teach in your own country will be good for international schools.

>>1089725
Bachelor's degree and two years of relevant experience. An employer to arrange your z visa. That's it.

If you've never traveled before and don't have a passport, should you wait until you get it to apply to jobs, or can you apply for both and just note in your application when you expect to get it?

>>1090885
It might just be in your best interest to get the passport out of the way before worrying about applying to jobs. I know in the case of US passports you can even have the process expedited for an extra fee. It doesn't take that long in any event.

I can only speak for US passports, but generally it takes about a month, if you get it expedited about 2 weeks.

>>1080192
i'm american and looking to teach english, worked a bit with the ESOL program at my church (mostly spanish people and asians, all nice tho) and enjoyed it. I have an associates degree. What do i do?

>>1080192
who here has taught in china? the z visa is a bitch. can anyone recommend a visa service?

>>1090917
Get a bachelor's degree. Teaching without a degree is not recommended. If you want to do it through a church mission go ahead, especially with a line on marrying a local and building your own business up, but employers will fuck you ten times over if you don't have a degree, that's a reality.

>>1090961
Your employer should be arranging your visa. It is not a complicated process on your end.

>>1090917
Get a bachelor's degree or else one option is the TALK program in Korea. It only requires an associates but you will be placed in the countryside.

>>1091090
>>1091199
thanks guys, i'm taking the fall off (travel and save money) after finishing up this semester, but i'm on track to get a bachelors.

I have a question that I have yet to see asked here: I have always wanted to do one of the 4-5 day guided tours of North Korea (I'm fully aware of the dangers entailed). Now let's say I've been living and teaching in South Korea for a year or two. Would this have an impact on whether or not they accept me for the guided tours of North Korea, does it make it more difficult/complicated, etc. Or would it simply make no difference at all?

>>1091250
The only tours run in North Korea are done by Chinese/North Korean companies that employ local tour guides and ones from China. They don't employ foreigners.

As far as I know they don't run these tours in languages other than English or Chinese.

I have a student who wants help with IELTS at a uni. in China. I have an IELTS workbook with answers, but I am reluctant. I've never actually used taught IELTS prep., and I would kind of want to be reimbursed by the school. Also, I don't want to teach only one person, to be honest. I'm already teaching two additional classes without pay out of the goodness of my heart. How should I play this? I think it would be good career advancement-wise considering most universities abroad want IELTS prep.

>>1091269
I'm not talking about being employed by them I'm talking about participating in them: getting a guided tour in North Korea. I'm from a native english speaking country btw.

>>1091281
Say you don't have time. Never pay for a job, never work for free.

Also, send me an email, I have a great IELTS prep program I'll send you. tarkaan as above.

>>1091281
>I'm already teaching two additional classes without pay out of the goodness of my heart.

I know its going to take some negotiating but try to stop that asap. they are milking you, you have been marked.

I should be graduating in about a year with a bachelors and TESOL. I know a little bit of Japanese but am unsure if JET is a solid choice. I lived in Japan for a few months and don't think I could live there more than a year. I'm curious if it's a smart plan to go into JET straight of college and use it to get a reference or if it's a better alternative to try somewhere else more competitive right out the door.

>>1084420
I taught in Thailand and they didn't ask for a background check; I think it depends on where you want to work. I know your feeling though, I have a misdemeanor charge also and I probably couldn't get a job in Korea either. Luckily, I have no interest in going there--no background check in South America!

>>1091448
Bachelors in what? Reference for what? What are your goals?
>>1091546
No pay in South America either. Have you actually done a foia to get your own FBI record check? Chances are it's not even on there. The local police have to report that shit to them. It's not automatic.

>>1080770

Being the last rhodesian is hard

>>1087725

How do foreigners look upon formal licensure to teach secondary/primary education in the states? Or are they unaware due to the variety of differences between states?

TEFL/ESL stuff in korea are going to get slimmer and slimmer. The country has a very, very low birthrate, so there will be a declining student population. They still have to hire natives, so they will have to cut foreigners drastically in the coming years. The best of course will still have plenty of opportunity through private schools.

If Korea is forced to rejoin again, well.. they will never be able to hire enough teachers for that.

How valuable is a CertTESOL/CELTA for finding work in Japan? I'm considering biting the bullet and dropping 1k on it, I just want to make sure it's worth it since I assume most people apply without one.

>>1091898
Not really that valuable. Just have a bachelor's and be an outgoing normie (or be able to fake it). That is all you need for a starter ESL job in Japan.

It's one of those things that couldn't hurt and probably gives you a slight advantage over those without one everything else being equal, but it's not worth shelling out 1k for. After your starter job, further jobs that are better in Japan can be acquired through these factors.

-Learning some Japanese
-Having a state certification
-Having a master's
-Having connections
-Having experience

TEFL cert really isn't so important.

>>1091657
Bachelors in physics.
References for better Teaching jobs after I'm done with jet.
I'm just planning to teach English abroad for a few years before heading to grad school.

>>1089467
>Interac hires anyone with a pulse who already has a visa and is living in Japan, but I'm sure outside of Japan it's a bit tougher so good luck.
Even without a degree?

>>1092171
If you're going to keep it casual, there's no reason not to go with JET. The jobs are real easy to get and their expectations are low.

>>1091858
This bullshit meme has been around since the 90s.

>>1092249
>JET
>easy to get
>expectations are low

In hiring? Not really. JET is somewhat competitive. I'm not saying it's super duper hard to get a JET job, but I wouldn't call it easy. The expectations are somewhat low once you have the job (muh tape recorder meme)

>>1092171
>References for better Teaching jobs after I'm done with jet.

All things considered, JET is about as good as English teaching in Japan gets. Gigs that are better than JET are few and far between, and don't expect to get those jobs with just references and nothing else. It's possible, but I'm saying don't just expect to. JET salary of 300,000 a month is about the ceiling for ESL jobs that aren't university positions (and some international schools like the American school in Tokyo--which pays ridiculously well).

Highest salary I've ever seen for an ESL job on Gaijin Pot was 330,000. And that job didn't have the massive amounts of downtime/vacation you get with public schools in JET.


Sounds like I'm shilling JET. I've actually never worked for JET, but it is a very nice gig as far as ESL gigs in Japan go. Basically the best you can do all things considered.

One piece of general advice I can give to people who are already in Japan with a visa and experience who want to find a new job is to submit your information to a staffing/recruitment agency.

That's how I got my current job which is pretty darn good. My current company never advertises on GaijinPot or anything. Salary is only 250,000 a month (although that is meme salary). But, I have 3 days off a week and I only work 5 hours a day, from 1-6. So basically, I'm getting the standard monthly ESL pay for a 40 hour week but I'm only working 20 hours a week. The extra time let me keep both my private lesson students as well, so I'm making a bit more.

I also had a couple interviews for other pretty good positions (that I wasn't offered), even one that was not English teaching, by submitting my information through staffing agencies.

My (Japanese) ex-gf recently got a nice job with a bank by going through a recruitment agency. Her monthly is going to be 420,000, which is ridiculously good for a 20 something in Japan--in any field. (By comparison, my current GF works for what is basically the Japanese IRS--in a career track position, she's not just an OL, and she only makes like 330,000 a month).


Tl;dr Staffing recruitment agencies are a good way to find good jobs in Japan.

>>1092053

The trouble is I'm worried about being sent to a rural shitty area. I have a bunch of friends in Tokyo so I'd love to be within train distance of there and work. Is it still possible to get a starter job in that area without a TEFL? I don't care that much about mediocre pay.

>>1092300
Yup, if you want to be 100% safe on location though, you'll probably have to go through an eikaiwa school.

Your top options here are ECC and AEON. ECC is pretty much the consensus best eikaiwa school to work for by a country mile. But, AEON has hire than average pay and is still a solid company. I'll kind of break down their specifics.

ECC
+7 weeks of paid vacation, which is far more than any other place
+6 hour work day (though it's 3:30-9:30 which isn't sociable).
-252,000/month. Actually standard but it's less than AEON
-No consecutive days off, you will most likely be off Sunday and a weekday. You don't get a real weekend.
-Do not offer bonuses
-Basically no raises
-You have to travel to several schools

AEON
+272,000/month which is higher than average for ESL pay
+Offer pretty generous raises (Pay goes to 289,000/month after the first year--sizeable)
+Offer severance bonuses (I got 150,000 contract completion bonus after finishing 1.5 years)
+ Not really a plus per se, but at AEON you get consecutive days off (Usually Sunday and Monday)
+You're at 1 school
-Basically a 10 hour work day, one hour of which is off the clock
-3 weeks vacation
-Teachers are forced to be salesmen and try to persuade students to buy expensive extra study materials during special campaigns a couple times a year.
-Teachers have to sometimes hand out fliers on the street for the school during their precious little downtime (although at my school it honestly wasn't that often--and I didn't mind it so much when the weather was nice).

As eikaiwa schools are businesses, it doesn't do them much good to be out in the boonies. Both AEON and ECC are more urban based and will basically put you wherever you want to be, as long as you don't mind waiting if they don't have something immediately available. If yo want to be around Tokyo, you can probably be around Tokyo.

>>1092053
mind if i ask you, what is a state certification ?

>>1092355
Like a license to teach in public schools in your home country.

>>1091858
Is that your excuse for getting rejected from a job?

I'm in Korea now. The teaching market isn't anything like you stated.

>>1092365
but only works with your home country?

>>1092379
Yes, in a sense. But many higher level ESL gigs require it, not out of legal necessity but simply because it's seen as a good credential. You are a "real" teacher.

>>1092372
It's not as if there's absolutely no truth to what he said. Like 2/3rds of public school jobs were axed like 3 years back. Though the reasons for this mainly dealt simply with lack of funds.

>>1092384
I came on too strong you're right. There was some fund cuts for the EPIK program.

But the ESL market has tons of opportunities. I didn't like his defeatist attitude.

>>1092267
There are better jobs than JET, but few you can get from outside Japan without speaking Japanese. JET jobs are average, and yes, their expectations of your teaching competence are low, you still have to meet the minimum requirements for the job, which are also pretty average.

>>1092401
Those public school job cuts were barely noticed by the industry as a whole. The commercial ESL market in Korea is showing no signs of slowing down, even with all the threats from the 90s / 2000s that the hagwon kids were growing up to speak well enough to teach. Hasn't happened yet, and it's not something that will happen in the foreseeable future.

>>1092469
>There are better jobs than JET

I didn't say there aren't, but as I said, they're few and far between.

>JET jobs are average

They're really not. 300,000 a month is not average. Plus it's easy, plus you get massive amounts of downtime and free time because it's public school.

>>1092352

Thanks dude, this helps a lot. One final question:

I have no experience in teaching, but I do have a degree from a UK university. Is it a good idea to get a working holiday visa, go to Japan and get an ESL job while I'm actually there? I hear it's much easier than applying from home but I'm relying on the stereotype about it being easy to find a job if you reside there being true.

>>1092565
>Is it a good idea to get a working holiday visa, go to Japan and get an ESL job while I'm actually there? I hear it's much easier than applying from home but I'm relying on the stereotype about it being easy to find a job if you reside there being true.

It's an option, but I would say that it's maybe not the best option unless you have a lot of extra money to fall back on--this is for supporting yourself while finding a job and then continuing to support yourself while you get the visa worked out. I mean the companies I outlined you can readily apply to from in the UK. Say you go to Japan, yes you're there and that's an advantage but you still have no prior experience and the wrong visa. So any company will have to still go through the visa process with you which can take like 2 months. You will be toward the back of the line compared people who have experience and the correct visa.

I know there are people out there who have done it this way, but I just personally wouldn't recommend it. With no experience and the wrong visa going in, I just don't think there are going to be too many other options out there for you that are a whole lot better than ECC or AEON (especially ECC).

>>1092578

Understood, I'll keep the working holiday visa plan as a last resort then. I've applied to both AEON and ECC but if there's any other viable eikaiwas in Kanto please let me know. Thanks for the helpful advice!

>>1092800
if there's any other viable eikaiwas in Kanto please let me know

You might try this as a third option. http://www.ittti.com/

As you can see, 240,000 and 2 weeks off is pretty paltry, but compared to other places you work way less hard (3-4 classes a day whereas at Aeon for example I averaged 6-7). You also have to travel a lot but all in all I've heard decent things about this.

Keep me updated on your application status, I can give you insights on interviews for both ECC and AEON.

Closing in on my AA. It looks like TALK is the place for me to start.

Any and all experience + tips welcomed for how to prepare and execute this path.

>>1092901

I got an e-mail from ECC asking for a phone interview and a copy of my CV. Any advice? Am I okay on the CV if I don't have much work experience?

Lads I am about to go through the EPIK program for South Korea, which is for teaching English in Korean public schools.

I have heard that Koreans (and Asian in general) think beards are dirty. Is this true? I am going to have a skype interview with someone from the board of education at some point before I get the job. Should I shave before it? I'd rather keep my beard as it has taken a while to grow in and is starting to look good. I am 20 btw, will be 21 when I actually start the job.

>>1093275
People will touch it all the time.

>>1093281
Kek. I noticed whenever I've had sex with a girl when I have my beard, she'll run her hand through it. Also is Seoul a good choice? They have positions in all areas. I should probably tell you a little about me to answer that question, I like going to the gym, gaming, drinking/clubbing on weekends and outdoors/hiking.

>>1093236
Oh! Great. Actually, I never had a phone interview and my CV was just included in the initial online application. I applied to ECC about 2.5 years back so they may have changed it a bit or maybe the UK office does things a bit differently.

But anyway, my general advice would just be to keep your voice bright and lively and answer the questions honestly. They'll probably ask you things like "why do you want to teach English in Japan" etc. Just answer honestly. For these kinds of questions you can't really impress them with the content of your answer--they've heard the standard stuff many times before (I want to have a new experience, I'm interested in Japan, etc.) That's not really the point I'd guess. It's most likely just a formality and to make sure you're not a monotone mouthbreather.

For brownie points and if it comes up, don't hesitate to say that you like kids. ECC's bread and butter is kids lessons and kids are emphasized in the live interview as well. Ha, I just told you to be honest but on this point, if it's not true, feel free to stretch the truth.

Good luck!

>>1093275
> I am going to have a skype interview with someone from the board of education at some point before I get the job. Should I shave before it? I'd rather keep my beard as it has taken a while to grow in and is starting to look good. I am 20 btw, will be 21 when I actually start the job.

I'd shave the beard, man. If it is a nice, even, well kept beard than it probably wouldn't be so much of a problem. Probably. But I'd still play it safe. Look at it this way, you grew it once before and you can grow it again, even if it took a while. I'd say the job is more important than your beard.

I am a US college student looking to take a gap year and teach English in Japan. I do not speak Japanese but could learn the basics between now and the fall when I would like to go. What is the best way to go about this? I am in it for the experience, only need to make enough to live wherever I am placed.

>>1093283
>Also is Seoul a good choice?
Naturally, it's a very good choice. But you should really project flexibility on this point. Of course you can say that Seoul is your preference, but everyone and their mother wants to be in Seoul. Emphasize that you are open as far as placement goes. The area surrounding Seoul is just fine. Incheon, Ilsan, Bucheon, etc.

I was in the GEPIK about three years back. I was not aware EPIK is in Seoul. I was under the impression all the jobs in Seoul were gone.

Traditionally there were three programs: EPIK, GEPIK and SMOE. SMOE was for Seoul directly. GEPIK was for basically the area surrounding Seoul, and EPIK was for the rest of Korea. A couple years back most GEPIK jobs, and I thought all of SMOE jobs were cut?

But perhaps things have changed again?

>I like going to the gym, gaming, drinking/clubbing on weekends and outdoors/hiking.

>drinking/clubbing on weekends

For the love of God don't say that. Koreans themselves love doing those things (actually for Koreans drinking is an every day thing) but that still doesn't mean you should tell your potential employer you like drinking and clubbing. Look man, far too many ESL people have sucked at their jobs and cared only about doing those things in Korea for this to be anywhere close to a viable thing to say.

>>1093297
>What is the best way to go about this?
Graduate. You cannot work as an English teacher in Japan without a college degree (unless you marry a local and get your visa that way).

>>1093297
Read the thread, but in a nutshell you have two options. Apply to public schools or apply to an English conversation school.

Your main options for public schools are JET and Interac. JET is the best choice of all, especially if you are not concerned about your placement.

Your best choice for conversation schools are ECC and AEON.

Generally speaking, Public schools are more of a less stress do nothing job, but conversation schools tend to offer higher pay and if you are more concerned about placement, you have more say over that.

>>1093301
I think he meant he would be taking a gap year after he graduates? If not, yes, you need to graduate first.

>>1093236
Oh, and yeah, it should be okay. Obviously ECC hires a lot of fresh university grads. Experience can only help though.

>>1093298
I think EPIK hires for all agencies now? I'm not entirely sure. The agency I am with told me that they should be able to get me an interview for Seoul anyway, and its an EPIK application form they sent me. I wouldn't mind being elsewhere though, as long as it was a big city. The pay in seoul is 200,000 won less per month than other cities.

Haha don't worry bro, I didn't say that to the agency, I was just telling you guys for recommendations of where to live. I really want to give it a go and take the job seriously desu, I can see myself doing TEFL for the next 3-5 years so I want to actually be good at it. Furthermore, I think its shit for students if they don't have a teacher who puts in the effort.

>>1093308
Epik hires for all areas I meant*

>>1093301
What I meant was I'd like to be an assistant to a teacher. That should be possible before I graduate, right?

>>1093308
>The pay in seoul is 200,000 won less per month than other cities.

Which is funny, because obviously it's going to be more expensive than other places. But it makes sense to try to turn some people off from wanting to go there and choose other places instead.

By the way people, "Japan is super expensive Korea is super cheap" is a meme that needs to die sooner rather than later.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fg-los-angeles-8th-most-expensive-city-20160310-story.html
>Seoul, which was ranked 36th five years ago, has also gotten significantly more expensive and jumped into the top 10 this year, with prices comparable to L.A. and Copenhagen. Seoul is the most expensive city for everyday food items, EIU said. An average loaf of bread costs $12.44 in the South Korean capital, EIU found, compared to $5.72 in Los Angeles.

>>1093318
$12.44, WTF!?!?! I may have to rethink my choice now. I was hoping to save around 1,000,000 won per month (was also planning on tutoring privately though to supplement my income). I am tight with money. Housing is provided by the way. Are other Korean cities also expensive?

>>1093320
It's a little bit misleading actually. What they're not saying is that these are prices for western food items. Korean food is cheap. If you go to a Korean restaurant or go to the supermarket and buy Korean/Asian shit, it's not that expensive.

>>1093312
>That should be possible before I graduate, right?
Probably not. Sorry. Teacher's assistant means the ALT program, for which you need a Bachelor's degree. If you really want to take a year off, without a degree you should instead be looking into Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, or China -- all places where the standards are way more lax.

>>1093291

I didn't see anywhere to include a CV in the application so I'm guessing they changed it. Should the CV include a photo like a Japanese resume?

And kids aren't a problem, I already take care of my sister's kids regularly so I'll just mention that.

>>1093283
Korea is GREAT for hiking. It's mountainous as fuck and it's all my uncle used to do with me in the summer when I was young.

>no interview for JET
>no answer whatsoever from ECC
>same for AEON
>explicitly turned down (literal "sorry no" e-mail) by Interac without even an interview

ha ha fuck

>>1093388
Do you mind if I ask what your background is/any certs you have? Do you have a bachelors, if so in what?

>>1093392
No certs, degree in math

in b4 "literally why"

>>1093394
Lol no, I'm in the same boat but degree in physics. Just trying to see if teaching abroad for a year would be a viable option

>>1093395
Oh, well, good luck. Hope you have a better time at it.

Sometimes I wish I did CS instead.

>>1093395
>>1093399
If it helps, your volunteer experience with ESL counts somewhat, same as tutoring experience. Also, while the TEFL cert is a meme, the market for ESL teachers is basically saturated so you need every leg up you can get.

Best of luck.

>>1093388
That's rough m8. How long ago did you apply to JET, ECC and AEON?

I feel it's a rare thing to just be turned down by Interac without even a shot at an interview. Maybe you made some sizeable mistakes on your essays/introduction/whatever? It would help to see anything you had to write for your app. But I guess they can't give everyone an interview...

One thing is that maybe they saw the STEM degree and deemed you "overqualified." That is very possible. They might have feared you are a danger to just get to Japan and then quitting right away to jump to some kind of IT job or something. I'd probably go with that theory. I remember some guy hear a couple years back talking about how Interac rejected him outright. He couldn't believe it because he had a master's and experience and experience teaching ESL to Spanish speakers. Basically they deemed him overqualified.

Good luck with the rest. You could apply to iTTTi or even NOVA. I think NOVA has cleaned up its act somewhat under new ownership after the bankruptcy thing. They might be viable, but I think you get very little vacation with NOVA. But, I think they're easier to get hired by. And if you don't like it you could just quit. You get to keep your visa.

>>1093404
>the market for ESL teachers is basically saturated

What even is this. When is this meme going to go away? What do you mean saturated? For example, the big language school companies in Japan are always hiring year round because they have immense turnover.

I always hear this shit about the market being saturated and I'm just not seeing it.

>>1093424
I'm not sure how overqualified I'd be with no job experience.

I did get called over a question about my application. Since I only ever got familiar with one of my professors and the above experience thing, I only had one reference. That wasn't good enough for them, of course. I tried to explain that to the lady that called, but she just said I'd have to come up with something. That's probably what killed it.

Also, (forgot to include it in the other post) I did get an interview/demo lesson with a GABA affiliate. It wasn't a disaster, but I did kind of spaghetti. The interviewer said I "hit all their points", but they sent me a rejection letter later that week, so I guess I either didn't do that great or the other people were simply that much better.

Tbh, teaching English was supposed to be a means to an end for me. It's probably not for me at all. (Sorry for the blog.)

How do I into TEFL/ESL? Does it require a specific diploma/course or can you do it if you're just somewhat decent in English? Also, how's the pay, generally speaking?

>>1093433
Why didn't you lie? Come on man, when I was starting out half my experiences were a lie because I needed something to get my foot in there. To get my first real job (not counting work at a gas station) after graduating I pretty much only gave fake references and they bought it. I don't have any lies remaining on my resume now, but that first step is always the hardest. Just get a family friend to vouch for you that you volunteered at their place or some shit.

I work in a university now and to gain entry into the program I run the applicants have to send in a resume. Some of them are joke worthy. There's barely anything written on them.

>>1093433
Because of what I said. You have a STEM degree and that alone may make you seem overqualified in their eyes. They may have a worry that you'll just quit your ESL gig and find something more gainful in IT or whatever in Japan. That's not likely in reality for someone with no Japanese ability and no experience and no specialization, but that might be their vague fear.

>>1093477
>How do I into TEFL/ESL?
Read the thread and do some basic research.

>Can you do it if you're just somewhat decent in English?
Most gainful full time positions require that you be a native speaker or show that you had 12 years of schooling in English. There might be something out there though, part time or volunteer or something. Never say never I guess.

>how's the pay, generally speaking?
Generally speaking, ESL salaries are comparatively low but allow a single person with no dependents to live basically a comfortable middle class existence. For starter jobs, the GEPIK/EPIK program in Korea offers a pretty generous package that allows for pretty big saving potential. You get a free apartment, and after reimbursed flight, pension refund, severance bonus and money saved every month, I'd say I saved about $10,000USD after my year in Korea.

USA here. I'm about to transfer to uni with an associates. Im researching the most efficient way to get to teaching in SE as soon as possible, mostly because i'm broke.

I am continually working on getting a BS, so that is one route. I am also looking in to getting a CELTA so i can land some first jobs for the experience.

Can anyone impart some knowledge on this?

Ausfag here, what are my options for teaching English abroad without a degree? I have a diploma but have been lost in terms of what to do with my life, hence why no degree.

Can get tefl/tesol etc certs no worries. Mostly interested in teaching in Asia, particularly China. Would definitely go to Japan or Korea but from what I've read a uni degree is mandatory.

>>1093855
>>1093477 here. I'm not a native speaker of English nor do I have 12 years of schooling in English, but I am doing a BA and later MA in English Language & Culture. Will that be sufficient for most places, in you experience?
Also, thanks for the advice.

try duolingo dude

>>1093879
>>1093878

>>1093943
>Will that be sufficient for most places
Probably not. They look at your passport. Even Irish or Scottish, etc people who are native English speakers but have an accent that the Gooks are unfamiliar with can cause them to freak out and claim you're lying about being English.

What country are you from? It matters.

>>1093307

Alright, I passed my phone interview with ECC and I have a live interview in May. The recruiter told me they'll:

- Interview me for 20 minutes about myself
- Have me take an English test to check for things like common mistakingly spelled words
- Have me do a live demonstration of teaching

What kind of things do I need to be careful about here? It sounds simple but I don't want to drop my spaghetti or get a trick question.

>>1094135
>Interview me for 20 minutes about myself
If it's like mine this will most likely be at the end. And it's pretty low key, they'll basically just ask you about your placement preferences and stuff like that. There are no trick questions or anything like that. Don't worry about this part at all going in. You may basically know if you'll get the job at this point as you'll probably get some light feedback about your demo. If you did really well, the guy will probably be honest and say something like "I don't see why you wouldn't get the job." If you didn't do well, he'll probably praise something you did and then express a concern. For ECC my demo went less than great--not entirely my fault, but definitely some of my fault. See below.

- Have me take an English test to check for things like common mistakingly spelled words
The test is pretty turgid. It's like 100 questions. You should be able to do fine as I did, but it's by no means breezy. Study/review verb tenses and what they're called ("present perfect progressive"), parts of speech, and commonly misspelled words. There is also a section about ESL terms and jargon, so study those too a bit.

- Have me do a live demonstration of teaching
Obviously the most important thing. It will be a kids demo lesson. If it's like mine they will pair you up with someone. The interviewer will kind of walk you through the demo before splitting you up into groups. Unfortunately I got paired with the quiet weeb beta wearing white athletic socks with his shitty suit, the other normie guy got the cute, bubbly girl. You'll get some time to hash out a basic lesson and then you have to do it (in front of a camera because they send it for Japanese ECC staff to look at to make a final decision).

Basically smile. For the love of God, smile. Just be enthusiastic, have a nice clear lively voice and laugh. Have a big stupid smile on your face. SMILE. Really, don't overly worry about the flow/content of your lesson.

>>1094153
So yeah, do your best on the lesson but just remember your presentation and demeanor is more important than the flow or whatever being shit. Basically I didn't smile enough.

>>1094155

I'm a pretty good speaker so I have no problem sounding enthusiastic and making lots of gestures. My main concerns about the demo are:

- What kind of vocabulary should I be using? If I have to explain, for example, 'dog' 'cat' 'cow' 'sheep' 'fish' should I be saying what they actually are or should I be drawing them, using emotes and having people roleplay and take part?

- If my teammates are shit, will it look bad for me? Or are they looking to see if I take initiative and try to lead the group even if they're quiet?

- How should I behave if the audience are spergs and refuse to be genki during my demo?

>>1094106
Born in the Caribbean (Aruba) but from Dutch parents/family, so Dutch passport.

Greetings from Eastern Europe.

I've got C2 English but no certificates to back it up.

How essential is CELTA for becoming an English teacher in some other country? Because here nobody asks for my credentials/diploma or w/e. But I want to go to either Spain or S. Korea to teach English there.

What step should I take to make it happen?

>>1094305
At least it's not a third-world country. You can always try your luck, but the fact is that generally (unless you have years of experience), a native speaker will probably always get priority. Same with any language, really.

>>1094167
Pictures can't hurt. If the students are good enough, Taboo is fun.

>>1094316
No one cares about Eastern Europe, that's why. I doubt you sound like a native speaker, but in any case being able to speak a language doesn't mean you'll be able to teach it. Yes, a CELTA will be your only hope.

>>1093433
Wait, you need references for this?
I'm about to finish my Bachelor's in a month and will not have any professor I feel comfortable enough with to use as a reference. Nor any work experience.

Am I going to have to ask my friends and resort to lying like >>1093563 ?
I'm a fucking terrible liar.

Okay, I always see conflicting answers to questions like this, so I'm just going to ask it straight: I have an MA and a BA in History from an English university, I speak with pretty much perfect accuracy, and my accent sounds mostly, but not flawlessly London.

I am also an Eastern European, from a country nobody in Asia will have heard of.

Should I spend money on TEFL courses, or will they just see my passport and nope.jpeg? Are there countries more willing to accept non-native speakers than others? Can I do Japan, if I don't much care about location or pay?

>>1094167
The vocabulary will basically be decided by ECC, the backbone of the lesson is basically decided. When I did it there were two lessons for the two partnerships. One of them involved animals and was the easier one to do (the guy even said it to me and my partner) I think if I remember right, ours was based on "Can you? No, I can't/Yes, I can. So it would be things like "play baseball" or whatever. At least if it's like mine, you will not be creating your own material as far as things to teach, you just have to hash out some procedure and details and then perform it. I think shit teammates, as mine was, makes you look a bit worse by association, but if I remember right you take turns with your partner performing different parts of the demo, so if you do really well on your part, your partner shouldn't really matter if he or she stinks up theirs.

Don't worry about the audience. It's just the other interviewees and the interviewer. You basically just pretend kids are there. They don't really factor in.

>>1094482
They ask you for references yes. Did you have any part time jobs when you were a student? References from a manager/boss should also be okay.

>>1094541
Korea I believe is the strictest when it comes to this stuff. You literally have to have an Anglosphere (UK, US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand) or else an Irish or South African passport. It's actually kind of bogus that South Africa gets this privilege when only like 10% of the population are actually native English speakers, while Caribbean countries like Jamaica are barred, even though they are all native speakers.

Anyway, as for Japan, I think it's maybe a bit more lenient, but I wouldn't hold my breath. At my current ESL job I actually work with a Swede. I don't think you will be hired by a big company from outside Japan, but if you were here on a working holiday visa you might find a place willing to hire you and convert your visa to the proper work visa.

>>1094480
Understood. It's fucking constly, though, this CELTA shit.

After I get it - what should I do next? Just send out my CV to various schools/universities/courses?

>>1094564
Have you ever heard Jamicans speak? Nothing bogus about it. And btw for South Africans, they need to actually prove they did all of their education in English, or else Korea won't take them.

>>1094580
They are no harder to understand than Scottish people or something. It's an accent. They are still native speakers.

>>1094580
Have you ever heard real Jamaicans speak, and not movie or dancehall clichés? There's a difference between an accent and full-on patois.

Anyhow, it's a known fact that gooks prefer the American accent, because it's what they know. Some, say in Hong Kong, Singapore or Malaysia, might prefer to learn a British accent.

>>1094564
How about something like Vietnam? Do the poorer countries give a shit? And if I teach English for a year in, let's say Vietnam just as an example, would it make it any more likely to get positions in other places?

>>1094729
I think Vietnam generally is looking for bachelor's degrees and native speakers too.

Btw, new thread, guys
>>1094759
>>1094759
>>1094759
>>1094759

Is there a way for Europeans to also teach English abroad? I mean, every native speaker can theoretically go abroad for a year to teach, irrespective of their English skills. But what's with the European people who learn English since first grade? Many of them speak as well as American or British people. Is there a way to make it possible?

>>1095666
>mean, every native speaker can theoretically go abroad for a year to teach, irrespective of their English skills
That's only what threads like this, or urban legend anyway, would have you believe. I've seen 'teachers' whose only qualification is 'native-speaker'. Some can certainly make it, most don't last long though. If you've got charisma and some social skills, you can get a class talking or performing basic exercises. At lower levels, where they won't understand complicated instructions anyway, this can be 'good enough'. But I've seen some spectacular failures burn out too. Pedagogic skill or the finer nuances of grammar (along with proper terminology) are not something you know just because you speak the language. These are things more advanced students will expect you to explain and guide them though. You don't want to be holding your dick saying 'errr, gosh, gee, I dunno...". You only get so many 'I dunnos' until students complain about you.

>Many of them speak as well as American or British people.
Hah. No. You only think so. The number of truly culturally competent (for culture IS part of language -- and it has to be lived, not just read about or surmised from Hollywood movies), fully English-bilingual-without-mistakes Europeans I've met could be counted on one hand.

All that said, I don't actually think one needs to be a native-speaker to teach a language. If your English is certifiably C2 (from a reputable source), you have no strong accent, and you can show you've lived in a English-speaking country for some length of time, you may get a chance (I have met such people, and thought most were fine teachers too). But you will still always be second fiddle to qualified, experienced native-speakers. It's the same in almost any language.

>>1095866
Thank you for the reply. I would call myself a C1, but I know many people who would have no problem getting a C2 certificate easily.

I had 12 years of English lessons so far and am going to go on a round-the-world trip for one year including English speaking countries (Australia, NZ, Canada, USA). Do you think I would be given the chance to teach English abroad?

>>1095915
Maybe. You're 75% of the way there... You could probably pick up casual work for lower-level, lower-stakes (i.e lower paid) 'teaching' gigs in some places where they can't find any native speakers. Someone who is 'pretty good' is better than no-one, after all. But really C1 is *not* anywhere near ready to teach English. I teach C1s, and they're certainly highly functioning with English, but still make noticeable mistakes. Most also can't write for shit.

Travelling though is great for its own reasons, but it's not the same as living in an English-speaking country. It's easy to travel without speaking all that much, and even worse if you're travelling with friends/people from your same country. Living in a country means you've had to go through all kinds of administrative or daily-life shit that must be done in (in this case) English. A couple years of that, and you should be basically native-level.

>>1087515
I have no bachelor, can get a certificate but I'm not native speaker, do I have any chance?

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>>1087515
Also what do they mean with self supported visa?

>>1096089
Basically you don't need them to sponsor you for the visa because you already have one from other means. Like Japanese spouse, or military spouse under status of forces.

suggestions for online 120 hour TEFL course?

>>1096932
I can give you a really good one with a discount code even !
i've done this course too , really fcking good one

just mail me [email protected]

>>1097136
wat

just link me to the site lol

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Stay away from this company.

Stay far, far away.

If you sign with them, you have made the biggest mistake of your life.

They will fuck you time and time again, charge you for it, kick you in the nuts, and demand an apology.


Top 10 worst companies in the world.


The entirety of english teaching is shit, but my god these asshats manage to stand out in a sea of shit.

dont hound me for this post, since i know i dun goofd big time. and have given myself enough shit for it.
applied with AEON, pass all the steps, do the skype interview, do the demonstrations, write the essay, etc. etc... make it to the final interview. 2 hours to kill. *hmm maybe i'll go for a pint to pass the time* fucking dumbest thing ive ever done in my life. am 99% sure that is why they failed me, since my friend later told me on the journey home i smelt of alcohol.

i'm pretty sure no one here is dumb enough to do that. that was a year ago. on the plus side, made me go completely t-total, prepare myself much more for teaching in japan (ie: learning the language) and made me save up alot more money. i will be re-applying in the next few months, (obviously, not with AEON again).

one other tip for anyone else going down that route, the grammar test is harder than you think.
spelling is easy, but differentiating between the usages of a single word can be difficult to put into words.

anyone fuck their students? should it be avoided?

>>1096932
>online
>TEFL course
pick one.

>>1097378
What do you think?

Can anyone give me some advice on how to do this in France or Germany please?
I am from the UK, have a very strong degree and can do a TEFL course as soon as required.
I want to make sure there are oppourtunities in Germany particularly Berlin before I do this though.