how can action figures be bad?

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Basically, "collector's toys" became a thing before high quality toys where a thing. The earliest toys that collectors sought where just ordinary children's toys. Stuff like GI Joe, or star Wars. They collected these because they where attached to a brand they liked, or held nostalgic attachment. Even now you have a lot of toy collectors that focus on toys that have historical precedent, rather than quality.
The big American toy companies are very reluctant to target any products exclusively to adults, and alot of them still operate with the idea that adult collectors will just collect toys by virtue of being the merchandise for a franchise, rather than being high quality. and to an extant, that is true. That's why you have people who wait for Force Friday and buy a ton of retail StarWars toys but don't touch Hot toys or the like. The avenues to sell toys exclusively to collectors, like comic shops and even the internet, are far less lucrative compared to retail.

That's why Mattel will never make Collector's Barbies that are Hot toys quality, for example. They expect their collectors to buy a toy. Slightly higher quality than a regular toy, but still a toy. This is conjecture, but I think a lot of the heads of these companies believe that if people where buying older figures for hundreds of dollars; things like 5POA Star wars figures, they don't see why collector's wouldn't still want the same thing. They probably think most of them will be kept in box anyway, so why bother waisting recourses on better sculpting or more articulation?

Things like that Batman in your OP pic are meant to appeal to children, even if they are meant to be collector's toys. For hasbro and Mattel, a "collector's toy" still has to be playable with kids, and appeal to them, because they're being stocked in the same place as the other kid's toys.

>>5971809
This is actually a pretty good explanation.

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>>5971809
So basically: middle of the road figures like McFarlane, for example, are allowed to ship with whatever glaring flaws they may have because
A)They're made for kids with an 8 to 12+ labeling so the quality doesn't really matter and
B)Companies know collectors will buy that shit anyway because they're interested in the franchise and they really can't find anything better because this particular type of product satisfies the market?

You know, when they first started talking about 3D Printers, my immediate thought was
>hey, I could make action figures with that!
Cases like pic related just reinforce that fantasy.

I guess there's little room for craft in mass market.

>>5971985
yeah, that pretty much how captalism works.

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>>5971809
>Mattel will never make Collector's Barbies that are Hot toys quality.... They expect their collectors to buy a toy. Slightly higher quality than a regular toy, but still a toy. ... I think a lot of the heads of these companies believe that if people where buying older figures for hundreds of dollars; things like 5POA Star wars figures, they don't see why collector's wouldn't still want the same thing
I see that you've never actually talked with or been to a panel with toy designers, marketers, and other reps from children's toy companies.
They're very aware that there are collectors out there and try to include everything they themselves want to see in their toys, but within their budget.
This is one of the reasons why Hasbro was able to give us very high quality figures that collectors have been asking for. Same with Toy Biz, and other geeky as fuck companies.
That said, they've scaled down from making a ton of bodies, a lot of paint apps, a lot of articulation, because sales didn't meet expectations. They know that collectors want better stuff, but collectors only make up a tiny portion of their sales and they can't cater to them when their toys aren't selling enough to budget that.
They don't expect collectors to follow their lines when they lower their budgets, and certainly never for the 5PoAshit toys.

Collector companies do try to make their toys as much for collectors as possible, but they can't please everyone. I know /toy/ has problems with believing everyone should only have the same opinion as themselves, but collector companies like DCC get tons and tons of different views and opinions on how their toys should be made, so they try to strike a balance with their figures. So they've been experimenting (keyword here) by offering accurate toys with articulation that doesn't get in the way of the sculpt and another line that offers even more articulation. They've also announced and shown off another line with even more articulation than that

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>>>5972760 cont
BUT, like children's toy companies, collector companies like to throw shit on the wall all the same and see what sticks.

Like DCC's failed 3.75" lines, they've moved past that failure. If sales arent' good enough for Icons or their upcoming higher premium figures, why should they continue making toys like that?
Same shit with McFarlane. They've cut down on articulation because sales are down and have been trying to push their building block sets. They're also releasing 7" figures that have less articulation, because fans have been asking for their return to making McStatues. Again, /toy/ loves believing every collector thinks the same way as them and thinks people are trolling or are stupid if they don't, but there are a lot of McStatue fans out there. Otherwise, DCC wouldn't continue making their own limited articulated lines.

So if you want to see more of what you like, always buy that product, even if you believe you can get it on clearance later or when your next local niche store goes out of business and is selling everything for next to nothing.

It always falls on the collectors shoulders to show support, because a toy company will not make products you like unless you give them money for those you do.
Obviously, this is all but impossible for kids toy lines that sell hundreds of thousands to millions of figures like Hasbro's and you're just a drop in the bucket in sales. But for DCC/Mezco/NECA/McFarlane/GoodSmile/Kaiyodo/etc where they only sell thousands to tens of thousands of units, your buying their products of what you like makes a big difference in keeping them around.

It's just pretty much budget. Consumers in the American market, which is the main target for companies like Hasbro, Mattel, and even Neca, are already really angsty about paying $20 for a figure. So they pretty much have to cut corners to fit that price.

Until Americans feel comfy paying $50-80 a figure like Japan does, this is what the industry balance is at.

>>5972764
>So if you want to see more of what you like, always buy that product, even if you believe you can get it on clearance later or when your next local niche store goes out of business and is selling everything for next to nothing.
Sarcasm?

>>5972760
Man, this Red Hulk really messed with my perceptions of what it meant to be a "good toy." On paper, it seems like I would hate it, as the articulation was a fucking joke and I was a pose junkie. But I kept coming back to it. It's one of the few toys where sculpt alone beat out articulation for me. It can't pose worth a damn (hell, the hips are nigh-useless), but I can never seem to put it down when it's out on display.

>>5972946
The old Marvel Universe before it switched to "legends" was hit and miss but it had some really good figures in it.
I used to collect it exclusively and had around 150 figs at one time until I parted out and sold them all off.
For some reason the "big" figures were always the best ones. Juggernaut, Thanos, the old body Hulk and Red Hulk, Hulkbuster, even in a later wave when they did Blastaar he was pretty good.
Kind of a shame that line went tits up.

>>5971985
There's always room for craft. Even just improving figures via customizing has a market. Example I'm thinking of is a guy that took the dogshit Funko Legacy figures on FigureRealm and had them fixed to where it was miles above the retail product.
It's going to be awhile though before 3D printing can suitably be used on small scale for full-on figures. The tech just isn't there yet, unless you have an insane amount of capital for a really high end printer.

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>>5972931
That came out wrong.
>So if you want to see more of what you like, always buy that product when it first comes out. Don't wait, even if you believe you can get it on clearance later or when your next local niche store goes out of business and is selling everything for next to nothing.

>>5973079
I think it was mostly hits, because they actually built new bodies more often for that scale than fucking MLs have since they first started.

>>5972906
>Until Americans feel comfy paying $50-80 a figure like Japan does, this is what the industry balance is at.
Nope.
We're already seeing toys that are much higher quality and using far more expensive features like Mezco's One:12 scale, and those have cost $60-70.
Toy Biz used to produce very high quality with feature rich figures for child's action figure prices. McFarlane did too until recently.
Then you have DCC and NECA producing highly detailed, extremely well painted figures for about $25, which rivaled Japanese figures. NECA themselves will produce figures at more than their normal cost when it's required. Same with DCC.

As already mentioned, DCC is producing even higher articulated figures than Icons with the same quality of paint jobs as the designer series for $40.

Japanese prices are just rip offs and not balanced at all.

>Then you have DCC and NECA producing highly detailed, extremely well painted figures for about $25, which rivaled Japanese figures.
To be fair, they only rivaled them in the sculpt/paint department. In terms of articulation, engineering, materials and accessory count they're still nowhere close, though obviously that's to be expected for the lower price. Most Western figures don't even come with proper stands.

Case in point, Figma Robocop vs NECA Robocop. The NECA is bigger and has a better headsculpt (though that's largely down to the fact Max Factory couldn't get the license for Peter Weller's likeness) but the Figma has better engineering, better articulation, better plastic, more accessories and a stand. They're both good figures of course, and really it's unfair to compare figures made at different pricepoints, but the point still stands.

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>>5974769
Actually, engineering and materials are pretty equal.
As for accessories, we've already seen how newer figures are coming with fewer and fewer from Japanese companies, while DCC has actually been including more.
And that was without increasing prices too. Prices have only gone up recently after about 5 years of no or little changes.

>that's largely down to the fact Max Factory couldn't get the license for Peter Weller's likeness
This is bullshit. You know nothing about the licensing agreement between the two companies and it's pure speculation. If it was likeness, it shouldnt matter on something as generic as a mouth.
Consider the fact that we had been seeing very simplistic cartoony sculpts from them anyway, even with figures they did have a full license for, it's likely just the fact that they didn't have a sculptor who could do a realistic looking likeness. And you just ended up with what they made.

Of course, you ignore the fact that Mezco is producing higher quality figures for only $10 more and that DCC is currently trying to release their own premium collector line for less.

Of course, the most telling sign is just how much stuff goes for normally. Everything is overpriced, sometimes 4x what it goes for elsewhere just because they can get away with it.
So the pricepoints don't actually denote quality or features. They just are what they are and don't relate to prices elsewhere.

because Funko is lazy and the top dog so everyone follows

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>>5972760
>This is one of the reasons why Hasbro was able to give us very high quality figures

>>5974031

Lol at your bs.

Toybiz and McF had *some* better-than-average quality sculpts, but their production values were garbage tier. Terrible uncontrolled paint apps, mold flash, floppy joints, breaks-if-you-look-at-them-wrong joints, and retarded articulation engineering. Having 30 poa where 25 of them are badly thought out as afterthought cut points on a figure only fool the simple minded into believing they're awesome.

Mezco's 1:12 stuff are dolls. It's cheaper to stitch fabric than it is to stamp metal molds for plastic injection.

I'm amused at how satisfied you are with mediocrity, comparing piss poor washes, misaligned paint apps and cross eyed dotted pupils to what you usually get on Japanese figures.

The only imbalance now is that the yen is at a sore point making Japanese prices look bad. If they were just inflated normally from what they were 2 years ago a figma would be around $40-50. Remember that figma debuted with Haruhi figures that were only about $20.

Even at $30 today all the american companies you mentioned are not even close to delivering the production quality of those first few figmas.

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>>5975035
Wow, you're completely misinformed or only bought Chinese factory rejects from eBay.
First of all, Hasbro's toys for years were high tier stuff. They were able to create unique bodies for a large amount of what they were producing and their paint apps were very exact. Only thing they were really missing was full paint jobs like we got from Toy Biz.
McFarlane was doing just that and they painted a ton of little details. They more than rivaled Hot Toy's snap kits and produced better sculpts too. Plus they had better articulation too (same engineering as Revoltechs, if not better depending on the year).

Second, Mezco's clothes is all done by people. Yes, a mold is expensive, but the pieces are shat out relatively quickly and cheaply. So you can mass produce an all plastic toy pretty fast. You can't do the same with clothing, where everything has to be stitched and handled by individual people.
This is all put together onto a plastic body, which isn't always generic, inserting all the uniquely molded pieces and stitched again sized to fit.
So the cost per figure is significantly more for a super articulated doll than a normal super articulated all plastic figure, because it's an extra extraneous step

>Remember that figma debuted with Haruhi figures that were only about $20.
No shit? I was buying Revoltechs for $25 or less if it was on sale way back when they first came out. But back then i could also buy an expertly painted Marvel Legend with more articulation and a vehicle included for only $8. Way more complexly made than anything Japanese back then and included better stuff too, including a "remastered" comic book.

>not even close to delivering the production quality
Sure is weeaboo.

>>5974769

> NECA Rivaling Nippon figures

I have never ever had to boil Figma.

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>>5978933
heating plastic is a fair trade off for the character looking like it should

>>5975745

>McFarlane... more than rivaled Hot Toy's snap kits and produced better sculpts too

bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

>a mold is expensive, but the pieces are shat out relatively quickly and cheaply

Dude, get informed. Steel molds cost tens of thousands of dollars to create and set up. China factory workers are paid barely a few dollars a month.

And hey, guess what. All those paint apps are done by human workers too. Using masks, sprays, prints and brushes.

Making unique clothes is always cheaper than plastic manufacturing.

Stop embarrassing your ignorant ass.

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>>5980096
>never handled any of Hot Toy's snap kits
The Alien ones were actually pretty bad, but the Appleseed ones were really good.
Like most western toys, they offered a lot of articulation and accurate sculpts, so they're about as possible as one another.
McFarlane was consistently good at sculpt and paint, hence better than Hot toys. McFarlane reached higher highs.

>Dude, get informed. Steel molds cost tens of thousands of dollars to create and set up. China factory workers are paid barely a few dollars a month.
Here's something oyu don't understand.
Per unit cost means it's going to cost more for the dolls than an all plastic figure, which brings the sum total to over an all plastic toy. It adds up and it's not like Mezco isn't using brand new unique steel molds either.
A textile worker is more skilled and paid more than a guy who just jams plastic pieces together.
That shit adds up very fast, especially when you consider it's an extra step in the toy manufacturing process.

Why do you think companies always act like it's a premium feature? Toy Biz, Hasbro, and others act like it's a big deal when a figure has this. Whenever a toyline actually has real clothes as a standard, why do you think they always cost more? Look at NECA's mego knockoffs.
And no, that inch difference isn't why. Go look at 4H's reasoning on why their Mythic Legion line went from 4" to 6". Hint: "the prices for 6” figures and the prices for 4” figures were very similar. What that means for customers is that you’d be paying basically the same price (give or take a dollar or two) for either scale." And this was for TWO inches.
Making something bigger is one of the cheapest things you can do to make you feel like you're getting more for your money, because plastic is cheap and doesn't always require more molds. Same shit with weight/diecast.