I just realized that Undead to Humans are same as Demons are to Angels

>>55398716
I don't follow your logic, though I understand what you are trying to get at.

>>55398716
The same as Elves are to everyone else.

>>55398716
undead are the remains of humans made animate

demons are more of an evil counterpart to angels
fallen angels might be closer, since they are depicted as the cruel, twisted version of an angel and were once an actual angel

>>55398738
Well, by Demons, I mean Christian version of Demons/Fallen Angels, Not as absolutely separate beings in other settings, like in D&D

>>55398729
Groomsh, go away!

>>55398759
Where are you getting the idea that Christian demons are fallen angels? The only example of that I can think of is Lucifer's angels in Paradise Lost.

>>55399760
Lucifer is described as a Cherub in Ezekiel 28 that fell. Also it is described as "dragon that took one-third of the stars with its tale" meaning that 1/3 of Angels followed him in rebellion.

>>55400013
Also, Job 4:18:
>In His angels He found wickedness.

And in Isaiah 14:13-14 (about Lucifer):

>13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
>14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
>15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

>>55400013
>>55400044
Uh-huh. So where are they described as demons? Because there are tons of mentions of demons in the Bible.

>>55400082
Actually no, "Shedim" appears only twice in Old testament. And there are more mentions of Undead (More exactly, "Rephaim"), than Demons in Old testament. Also, Book of revelations says that Satan is the the Devil and Serpent. so "Demon" in Christianity is "Synonimous" to fallen Angel" and it always was, including with Gregory, Pseudo-Dionysus, Augustine and Aquinas.

>>55400179
>Old Testament
>Christianity

I want you to drink a glass of water and try again, sir. If you're talking EXCLUSIVELY about the Old Testament, which you appear to be, you're talking about Judaism.

>>55400179
>>55400208
Sorry, skipped over your revelations comment, my mistake. Where in the Bible does it say that Lucifer is Satan?

>>55400221

Whatever this guy says, it doesn't. An entity referred to as satan (hebrew: adversary, not a proper noun) is a divine being who works for God prosecuting mortals. He's the one who tests Job, with God's explicit consent and direction. Likewise in any of the heavenly court scenes, he serves as a prosecuting attorney.

The idea that any being could stand in dualistic opposition to God would have been anathema to ancient near eastern Judaism, because God is the source of all good AND evil (which itself is only true after the Jews switched from monolatros worship of YHVH-savahot as one god among many in the ANE). It's a later addition to Judaism and Christianity that is probably the influence of Persian Zoroastrianism.

You know who gets called Satan in Hebrew bible? David. It just means adversary.

>>55400300

Hell, the Jewish understanding of demons is that they're JEWISH demons. They have been sent from God to do a job, have mitsvot incumbent on them, are judged by how well they do their job, just like humans.

The whole idea of a source of evil outside of god is blasphemous if you believe that God is the source of all things.

>>55400322

BUT, given all of that, if we're just talking about modern Christian mythology, yeah, angels fell and became demons. It's not biblical, though passages can be found to suggest it's biblical, since the process of adding books to cannon was piecemeal. There are books referenced by Paul as cannon that don't make it in to the modern library - Enoch comes to mind.

Modern Christian mythology draws from many sources, and incorporates many in. Even literary sources, like Milton or Dante, get added to the cultural consciousness, and are drawn from contemporary understandings of theology.

>>55400221
That anon, you're asking. Satan is just a title, meaning enemy. Satan is also called upon humans too (like Jesus called Peter "Satan" When he opposed Him).
But ye, Lucifer is Satan, he is The Satan, the greatest adversary.

>>55400300
>>55400322
Your theory is wrong on tremendous levels. Evil doesnt exist separately, but is lacks of Good and God. Evil IS opposition of God.
Also
>Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man ( James 1:13 )

>>55400322
You know that the followers of Melek Taus believe God's breath created the universe, so when he inhales and the universe was left, it was entirely made of nondivine substance and therefore evil, right?

>>55400394

It's not a theory, man, it's half a degree program. I dropped it to just stay in history, but that is the history of Christianity when not studied from inside it. That's the documented, secular history of your faith.

I learned basic ANE Hebrew for this shit, man. I had to parse Koine greek.

And of course James says that. That's post dualism influence.

>>55400587

To be clear, I'm not saying I'm an expert. This is all pretty basic entry level stuff.

>>55400425

Nope. Haven't heard of it. That's definitely an interesting cosmology, though.

>>55400587
Its not. And you are wrong on infinite levels. God made everything Good, for he is good himself. And it is written in Genesis at the end of every that "it was Good". God is Good, and evil is opposition of Good, it isnt ontologically separate and exists solely due to free will of Agents: Humans And Angels.
God is not Evil, since its disobedience of God itself.
THIS is basic level. Your story is just a Zoroastrian based fanfiction of Zurvan and his offsprings.
You can read John of Damascus "Exposition of the Orthodox faith". THAT is a literal baby tier theology.

>>55401209

I'm not doing Theology, man. I'm doing Religious history. I don't care at all what you believe, I care about what has been believed and how it's changed over time. Non-overlapping magisteria.