Making interesting female characters

>>55360174
Well, you sure showed those trolls that you got so upset you made a whole new thread.

>>55360174
Hey, it worked for Ellen Ripley. IIRC, she was originally meant to be a man before Sigourney Weaver was cast.

>>55360174
>Ms. Male character trope
Fuck off, watch Feminist Frequency's videos on the matter of tropes first, then create a female character.

>>55360355
>Trusting feminists

I want Ripley and Samus, not "LOOK AT HOW EMPOWERED I AM BUT NIT TOO CLOSE OR ITS SEXISM!"

>>55360174
Maybe if you're playing a sufficiently butch woman (or started with a sufficiently feminine man), but that work for all cases.

>>55360355
>watch feminist frequency
Holy fuck, I thought Tumblr was just a meme

>>55360479
4chan is full of /pol/tards pretending to be strawman libtards.

>>55360174

Women characters have different goals and motivations than male characters in many cases, and the very first part of making an interesting character is asking 'what do they want', so not likely to be good.

>>55360544
>>55360479
Remember, when we accuse you of being /pol/tards, we're not saying you're from /pol/ we're saying you're making /pol/ threads in /tg/ and need to get the fuck out.

So get the fuck out.

>>55360174
>3: Don't give a shit about Muh Representation, erase checkmark in "Female" box, place one in "Male" box.

>>55360544
>>55360479
>>55360396
She does raise valid points about 'strong female characters' just being written as men with tits. Women are different than men in more than just appearance. Like >>55360568 hinted at.

>>55360617
But anon, I don't care about representation. I want to play a woman because I'm a sexual deviant.

>>55360588
>>55360568

Even women (at least in my completely anecdotal sample pool) think Feminist Frequency is insane.

There are MANY differences between men and women, but most of them occur in the thought process, where most people will never see/hear.

A Male Warrior might respond to a challenge with anger and aggression because it's a challenge to his masculinity.

A Female Warrior might respond to that same challenge with anger and aggression because she feels she needs to put on such a display to be taken seriously, or resents that her capability is being doubted.

They both do the same fucking thing, it's just the why. Understanding this can be important to making a nuanced character, but for the most part it's immaterial.

>>55360617
But what if I want to play a female character, because it's the only place I can pretend to be a cute 10 ft tall amazon tomboy?

>>55360658
Yeah, in most games characters tend to be impacted more by their race and class than their gender.

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>>55360647
>>55360664

>>55360396
Not every feminist is a retard, just the most vocal ones. If you are going to instantly discard any argument based on it's source you are not being more reasonable than them.

>>55360674
Agreeing. In my experience it tends to go Race > Class (social) > Class (character) > Gender unless they come from a society where gender plays a large influence, such as one where women or men are restricted from certain professions by social mores.

Gender gets more important the deeper into a character you get, but for your first few sessions? It isn't really going to matter.

>>55360712
But anon, don't you know that every member of the in-group is unique, but all members of the out-group are identical and bad?

>>55360355
>watch Feminist Frequency
i mean, she's incoherent as fuck, but i guess you could take some inspiration from Sarkeesian for a villain

>>55360588
>saying that men and women are not exactly the same and telling someone to stop shilling a hyper-leftists channel is /pol/
If it's not acceptable from the right, then it's not acceptable from the left.
Post feminist frequency is the leftwing equivalent of posting breitbart.

>>55360174
female characters, especially female protagonists, are terrible because you cant subject them to any sort of scrutiny or criticism without creating a massive shitstorm. Just like actual women

>>55360775
Which is why you should play with an all-male player group only.

>>55360765
Her and her Husband really are good minor villains, Neutral Evil con artists

>>55360772
Imagine if you will, someone posted on /tg/ "lol just watch breitbart", and someone else responded with several posts complaining (on /tg/) about how much they don't like breitbart.

>>55360174
It's a bit more complicated than that. In a lot of settings there are going to be different cultural expectations of men and women, so you have to account for how that would shape a person's life dealing with it. Granted, unless you're writing a character that's in exactly the same culture and social position as you are, this is something you're going to be doing anyways, so you're still mostly correct.

>>55360841
But that's exactly what happens, anon.

>>55360775
Nonsense.

>>55360772
See this right here? That's politics. Politics belongs in /pol/. It doesn't matter whose side, what kinf, left right, red, blue,. SJW, antiSJW, nazi, Antifa, what ever. It's all /pol/ So take it to /pol/.

If your argument contains anything referring to a political stance, it's /pol/ That's it. that's the facts.

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>>55360174
Easy.

>>55360765
>>55360479
>>55360396
>they don't realize anon is trolling.

>>55360884
Invoking /pol/ in the first place is /pol/, you utter faggot.
I agree with you that /pol/ needs to be kept in /pol/, which is why leftwing stuff needs to be shouted down just as much as the rightwing stuff. Like it or not, feminism is politics.
This entire thread was on the knife-edge of /pol/ from the start anyways.


>If your argument contains anything referring to a political stance, it's /pol/ That's it. that's the facts.
Yeah, which is exactly why I called out >>55360355
Because >>55360355 is politics.
Just as much as if it had been a rightwinger posting breitbart or something.

Do you comprehend, anon?

>>55360628
Neither Ripley or Samus are written as men with tits.

Goodness, is /tg/ this bad at genders?

...wait. Nevermind.

>>55360943
i just want someone to stat her and her cult

>>55360963
>Neither Ripley or Samus are written as men with tits
No, they were written as plain males and then switched the gender at some point during production without changing anything else.

>>55361008
well memed m8

>>55360795
I have a 50/50 mix typically for my games, and women can be exactly as fun to play with, if not occasionally more so.

I have one player that was going drunken man using turbo skank, that was really just an abused mistreated freak that wanted love without wanting to open up to people.

I have the sorceress supreme that is constantly flipping between carrying the party or horrendously failing. She wants to be the leader and the party face, but constantly (intentionally out of character) falls into the background as the support to the actual party faces.

We have the shy necromancer that just wants to escape her life. Making a wall to protect herself both emotionally and physically.

The devilish rogue that is out to use the rest of the party as her personal piggy bank. Bleeding them dry as best she can. It's a shame that artificer is so darn cute though.... it's going to suck if she has to betray him to make her escape.

>>55361019
And yet I'm completely convinced they're women without once getting the impression they are men with tits.

Maybe there are different types of men and different types of women and more often than not their motivations and world views align?

Just a thought.

But maybe men and women aren't that different. Crazy, I know.

>>55361019
Except Ripley would not have been the same played as a man, because the viewer imprints expectations and ideals upon the visual medium.
In fact, Weaver herself hated Ripley precisely due to that, and wanted her to die in every movie.

>>55361045
>And yet I'm completely convinced
That's cool, but not reality.

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>>55361056
>Weaver herself hated Ripley precisely due to that, and wanted her to die in every movie.

>>55361063
Last I checked I was pretty real. So. Apparently reality.

>>55361093
Nice reading failure.

>>55361100
>completely missed the point

>>55361107
No, I got it. But following that point would mean moving goalposts, that's retarded.

>>55361107
>petty squabbling instead of /tg/ related discussion
Welcome to neo/tg/

>>55361118
did you get it? did you really??

>>55361143
Yes, now back to the topic or fuck off. You are not funny or clever.

>>55361159
I refuse, so go fuck yourself you fucking newfag.

>>55360902
You should post the whole scene.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBz0BTb83H8

>>55361185
It's called nuance.

>>55361185
BASED
A
S
E
D

>>55360268
No, all of the parts in Alien were written unisex, any character could have been man or woman

>>55360174
Im thinking of that new movie "shape of water" and im pretty sure it would be a lot different if the main charector was a dude.

>>55360174
My take on women and men is like this:
Men tend towards being competitive and agressive
Women are more defensive and social, they care more about people, relationships, emotions and spiritualism.
Women can sometimes be more manly that some men, men can sometimes be more feminine than women, humans are quite unique. But because of culture and how society treats you this can vary a lot more, soe men can't ever be like women or vice versa, plus there are physical differences.

>>55361256
>charector

>>55361077
Anon, seriously, you could go to ANY Alien/Xenomorph site, look at her interviews, the director/actor commentary on Alien(s) 3.
Sometimes, you need to stop being stupid. If you aren't that much a fan of the series to know something so basic about the primary actress, that's on you.

>>55360775
>>55360795
3/5 of my players are women right now and they work just fine. Between the exhausted parent Bear Barbarian, the adorably naive Artificer, and the chaotic fun-loving Rogue, I'm pretty happy with them and their RP.
But your mileage may vary, just as it would with anyone.

>>55361234
Which if you ask me is how it should be for most roles.
When I'm making NPCs, I flip a coin most of the time.

>>55361327
This works for npcs, not primary characters in movie or film.

>>55360617
I don't think you get what "Don't Give a Shit" means.

>>55361327
NPCs are barely characters.

Most of my NPCs are females anyway. Men die in war, female and wounded men take most of the town offices job.

I don't have numales NPC, so flipping a coin is a no-go to me. The NPC is a female unless I have a reason to make him a male.

>>55361274
thanks friend,

>>55360174
Well, you should probably spare a thought at some point to how your character's society views women and femininity, and how your character has responded to those in her life, but you should probably also do that with male characters (but with his society's view of men and masculinity, obviously.)

>>55361394
I don't give a shit about muh representation. I do give a shit about playing a character who is competent and believable.

>>55360628
>She does raise valid points about 'strong female characters' just being written as men with tits
No, she does not raise any valid points. Her complaint is that competent female characters are nothing but "men with tits" to her because she sees the values that said characters exemplify as being unilaterally male characteristics.

Because she's a hypocritical sexist cunt.

Relevant to this thread
http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/368/1631/20130079

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Baiting others into a pointless genital-fidgeting contest by memeing trivial social issues in a pseudointellectual way belongs in >>>/trash/

>>55362560
Good read. Thanks for posting it.

>>55360174
I think people call that the Miss Male Character technique, but it's often criticized for producing unrelatable and poor characterizations of women.

>>55362794
but anon, feminists told me women don't act any different from men, except when they're better than men in every way so they should rule the world

>>55362817
I don't think anyone says that. It would be a good strawman however since it's easy to point out flaws in black and white descriptions of people.

>>55362634
Amusingly enough, in terms of roleplay, this thread is entirely relevant to the board, as it concerns roleplaying characters well.
It's just fraught with dickwaffles that want to troll.

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>>55362891
This thread was derailed by a troll from /pol/. Politics weakens and warps joy and passion. Those who are obsessed with politics have unwittingly rented out their souls to the quagmire.
Politics has caused nothing but outrage, hate, mistrust, intolerance, disdain, extremism, and chaos; even ignoring all of this the "positive" contributions of politics has done things that almost nobody is happy about. This is because politics and those with a deep interest in them are only interested in either causing any of those things or they want to take and take until they get everything. /pol/acks, SJWs, commies, AnCaps, Liberals, and other political groups have taken away many people's ability to see what really matters in hobbies and entertainment in favor of being ideological tossers that have become a carrier of a disease of society.
I'm getting retarded now with my cathartic shitposting, but the point is that 2014-2017 have been marred by political shills that smash aside fun and enlightenment for a pissing contest and a culture war. I should probably fuck off and let you guys mentally masturbate by fighting with each other over the same stupid skub.

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>>55361688
>I don't give a shit about muh representation.
This statement means ambivalence to the matter one way or another.
> I do give a shit about playing a character who is competent and believable.
Neither quality is tied to sex.

>>55363076
You're not wrong, but the problem is more deep-rooted than that. Politics used to be just a matter of policy which was sometimes - but not always - supported by some philosophy. However, with the development of society came the transition of political philosophy into political ideology. The MAIN toxin in modern politics is that to effectively garner a unified slogan, creed or idea for more than approximately five people, it must be butchered and deprived of intelligence until the people on your "side" forget all the nuances that they conflict on to aggregate into large blocs. Without political ideology, seven people can have seven or more different opinions on a topic. With political ideology, they will have only one opinion on the topic and not comprehend how anyone else can have a different opinion, because ideologies are public and philosophy is private.
You can make the claim that things are especially bad now, but believe me, they weren't any better in the late 60's or early 30's and depending on where you were, even the 90's. Political ideology exists expressly so that any given individual foregoes the capacity for the things that an individual is capable of, such as joy, passion and thought, in the service of that which society has begun to demand, which is anger, numbness and servitude.

My concern with female characters isn't really that I won't write them as people, I pretty much always play female characters and haven't gotten much in the way of complaints. They're different, and the extent to which they're similar is a product of my overall playstyle, not my perception of women.

But if you look at women writing male characters, there are certain tendencies that don't require you to completely fuck up and write a stereotype. Women writing men who don't get male sexuality can make them come off as gay or catty - e.g. a character spending a long time describing his male roommate's eyes, or a character commenting on his big-boobed ex "leaning just a little bit too far forward." The other big ones are male-male relationships (which often lack the counter-signaling of calling each other names) and hyperstoicism.

On the other hand - what are the tendencies male writers have when writing female characters that are like this? Subtle enough to slide under the radar when you're writing a real character with her own motives and backstory and such, but serious enough to potentially make a character read as entirely off in just a handful of words. The closest I've ever seen is just "getting female biology wrong" (urethra versus vagina, menstruation, bra sizes, the hymen), never anything more. Thoughts/experiences, or am I blabbering into the wind?

>>55363714
Your post essentially reduces to subtle writers being better than not. Everyone is allowed to get the other gender slightly wrong, nobody is allowed to try and make a show of it.

>>55363714
>or a character commenting on his big-boobed ex "leaning just a little bit too far forward."
It's really not connecting for me
>The other big ones are male-male relationships (which often lack the counter-signaling of calling each other names) and hyperstoicism.
I've found that it's been a shit from that to "men aren't friends unless they behave like women" and "men can't be friends, they all want to fuck each other"

>>55363825
>It's really not connecting for me
It's a catty comment about her showing off her tits which suggests absolutely no temptation to look at them.

I mean, some guys are catty, some guys aren't going to react to a pair of big breasts that their ex is trying to show off, but the context of the quote, book, etc, suggest the author didn't intend for him to come off that way.

>>55360174

How to make an interesting female character?

That's easy, it's the same thing you do when you make an interesting object

>>55361234
While technically true, the writers have since admitted that they never imagined Ripley's role as anything other than male even though it too was written unisex.

>>55364021
But anon, very few of my interesting objects have big fat juicy tits.

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>>55360355

>>55363076
One can not escape politics. One can only ever turn a blind eye to it.

>>55364035

You're clearly using the wrong kind of mousepads then

>>55361282
> I don't have to provide sources for any of my claims, because you should already know all of this yourself.

That's not how this works, anon.

>>55360174
But then the part about the character sucking cocks doesn't make sense.

>>55360544
Please do not generalize an entire website over the flamboyant loudmothed shitposters from /pol/

>>55360174
I think that was so obvious we didn't really need a fucking thread for it. It's just fucking retards that can't get past throwing GRRL POWER on female characters because they might be a genuine shit character and have to come to terms that they made some thing that isn't the best ever

As much of a badass that Ripley was, remember that she cried.

>>55370684
So did Rambo, there's nothing wrong with having a cry now and then.

You need to ask yourself what does it mean to be men or women in the setting. If the girl had to struggle to become a barbarian or paladin in society where the only other STR 18 characters are men and NPC women get -4 she would behave completely different than if the rolls are the same for men and women and there is an equal number of characters with hight strength. It's the same question as with magic, you can't simply check the "Caster" box instead of "Non-caster" if the world is low-magic and wizards are privileged or oppressed class.

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>>55360174
That would be the "Man With Boobs" archetype, which is a form of misogyny, as evidenced by Anita Sarkeesian's video that she never made.

>>55360617
It's not representation, it's rolling for sex instead of choosing.

>>55371832
How do women that have masculine interests and manners feel about being called "man with boobs"?

>>55362108
This. As long as "logical, brave, competent" would be seen as male-only traits, women will be inferior

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>>55360174
>>55360355
>Make an interesting character, and only make her female later
>"MS. MALE! MAN WITH TITS! SEXIST!"

>Make a female first, and flesh her character out later
>"SHE'S CONFORMING TO GENDER ROLES! PERVERT! SEXIST!"

You're both fuckbois. Here's the true, unquestionable, tried and true, 100% guaranteed method towards playing a female character without getting shit.

1. Before the session starts, loudly state "I'm a heterosexual, white Christian male. I think gay marriage is an abomination that misses the point of marriage as a social and religious institution, I'm proud of my country and race and I believe that Jesus has a plan for us all"
2. Wait until all the cucks have left the table, seething in rage
3. Remove all vagina owners that remain
4. Play whatever female character you like. All the men that are still sitting at the table have thick enough skins not to care.

>B-But I'm not a Christian/white/heterosexual
Alright then, you're a trans-Christian/trans-white/trans-heterosexual. Happy now?

>>55372024
Or you can simply own your shit and admit you're a sexist pervert. Then force the other player's characters to wear belts of genderbending or polymorph them into your prefered form. Gender is a meaningless concept in a game where you can shift it as you want anyway.

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>>55371891
They'll feel how Intersectional Feminism tells them to feel, or else they're not liberated enough!

>>55360174
religion, physical prowess, society, the high number of hetereosexual relationships/affairs/rape, and the difference in of attitude toward gay and lesbians (eg homo-sex was ok for men in ancient Rome, not really for women) are ahuge limitation on the choice of the genders of NPCs in an historical RPG.
Usually, you don't have the possibility to decide the gender of any character, and when it occurs, it constraints most of the others.

>>55373546
Fittin considering feminists staunchly defend Islam

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>>55360355
>Feminist Frequency

>>55373546
Or maybe they don't feel the need to police other people, like how all Christians don't constantly send sternly-worded letters to Westboro Baptist Church.

>>55363714
>what are the tendencies male writers have when writing female characters that are like this

The big one is male writers writing female characters is thay often write descriptions of breasts.

>>55376676
That's called laziness. Christianity insists on settling that kind of shit in-house. If your brother sins, it's your responsibility to talk to him and set shit straight. First on a one-on-one basis, then if he persists get a few more people to back you up, then if he still persists get as many people as you can, and if he really still persists, then you may have to just kick him out of the group. Not unsave, of course, but he's no longer part of the party, so to speak.
>>55377805
Yes, how dare they

>>55379199
>Christianity insists on settling that kind of shit in-house
That is not what happens in reality, and in muslim communities I've dealt with, the radicals are generally spoken of as a serious problem, their personal interpretations of Scripture debated and debunked.
You aren't there for it, so you assume it doesn't happen.

>>55379199
>Yes, how dare they
Women don't think about their tits much more than men think about their cocks (barring like, getting stares or w/e). Lots of male writers will write stuff like "her breasts brushed against the fabric of her bra as she walked" which is about as reasonable a thing to write as "his cock brushed against the fabric of his underwear as he walked."

>>55379244
I meant laziness on the other Christians' part, and I say this as a Christian myself
>>55379263
Dick placement is a life or death matter

>>55379263
sound like you don't know how much of a pain it is to have loose underwear in tight pants

>>55379526
Yet I have read very few novels commenting on this fact.

>>55379598
I've read a few, but always in first person. Usually in the context of "i usually wear underwear but because reasons I'm not and it's really uncomfortable"

>>55360951
Desu senpai.

>>55372103
>playing a female makes you a sexist pervert
>having such a limited concept of acting and roleplaying that pretending to be something other than the gender you're born with is perverted sexism
holy shit, better hop in my time machine and let Shakespeare and Sophocles know that they're sexist perverts for having men play as women in their plays

>>55360254
Link to original thread?

>>55379356
And that's no different from how other people are.
You see people that look at radical Christians and wonder why they aren't being denounced vocally and publicly (other than the current pope who is taking American Christian organizations to task)?