/5eg/ - Fifth Edition General

First for wizards should pick 2 schools and shun all others at character creation.

>>55356088
That feels too specialized, more of what a sorc should be doing. I was always okay with the old losing out on opposing schools schtick.

What are the best mutliclass options for a jack of all trades character?

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>>55356088
>2
I think losing access to two would be better, also it's how they did it way back when.

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>>55356088
I pick Arcane and Divine.

>>55356127
Bard 1/bard 19

>>55356127
Pure half elf bard.

>>55356140
Imagine if you could cross class colleges. Or not cause that's just retarded

Best Paladin MC options?

>>55356127
Bard, throw at least one level of rogue in there somewhere.

Nomad Mystic if your DM is retarded

>>55356182
Hexblade 1

>>55356182
Sorcerer, Bard, Warlock

Anyone else think bards could be 2/3 casters and not be underpowered? Slow down progression and cap at one 7th level slot, but leave everything else the same.

>>55356224
Absolutely

>>55356182
>>55356222

All you care about from your multiclass is the ability to smite more. Everything else the paladin's kit already provides. Pal, imo, is one of the few classes where it doesn't feel like shit to go 20 levels pure in.

>>55356224
I agree. They get as many features as martials even though they are fullcasters.

Just compare what they get with Sorcerers or Wizards.

anyone started ToA yet? how is it?

>>55356280
Wizards get some neat school features and better spell selection, but Bard is (I believe, AFB) the only full caster who gets class features and a new level of spells at the same time (they look like dead levels in the Wizard table).

>>55352108
added to the album of ToA leaks
https://imgur.com/a/iglMj

Going to be playing in a game that's similar to an epic (large cast of characters) in terms of the fact that there will be ~15 players rotating in and out. Some quests will involve certain groupings and others will be determined by who can make it to a session.

What class would you suggest I try for this? I want something that could fit into any party composition.

I'm leaning towards Paladin, but I'm wondering if there are any other good options.

i want to fuck the girls on critical role

>>55356351
EK, abjuration only.

>>55356274
I completely agree I dislike MCing unless it actually fits what has happened to the character over the course of an adventure. However that doesn't mean I'm not aware of the really good cheese, because I also DM so I have to keep an eye out for that shit.

>>55356366
I wouldn't mind Ashley, hate Marisha as a person and character. Have too much of a man crush on Travis to do that to him.

Reiterating a question: If I go for a Bard X/Life Cleric 1 muticlass, what should I take as my first level, Cleric or Bard? I feel like the Con proficiency is useful for Concentration, but I'll grab War Caster eventually.

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>>55356366
But anon, there retarded

>>55356351
Like you said Paladin would be good, a Bard, Wizard or Cleric would also fit really well with most parties.

>>55356341
Oh don't misunderstand. Wizards are as good as bards probably, but the Bard still gets way more shit than any other class

>>55356419
>Have too much of a man crush on Travis to do that to him.

This. I've had a crush on Laura Bailey's voice since the good ol days of Fruits Basket and Kodocha, and its endlessly entertaining to watch her sperg out on the show, but Travis just seems like that chill jock older brother you never had.

>>55356430
War caster gives you advantage, not proficiency. Definitely start cleric if you want armor, bard if you want skills

>>55356351
EK (possibly take a couple Wiz levels), AT (possibly take a couple Wiz levels), Tempest/War cleric, Bard.

>>55356439
Everybody wants that inspiration from you. Delicious .

>>55355966
>>55355985
The only "retarded" move the DM made was having Strahd be close enough to the party for someone to melee attack him once. After that, it was over, because our meme Bard tripped him, grappled him, and the rest of the party went hog wild before his turn came around again.

>>55356431
>but anon, there retarded
>there retarded
>there

Anon, pls.

>>55356473
Strahd can phase through the floor and shit, he shouldn't have stayed grappled.

>>55356351
Either Cleric or Bard. Cleric for healing and tanking, Bard for general versatility and support.

>>55356341
Wizards have 250+ class features before they choose a subclass.

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>Running first session of Out of the Abyss for 3 players at my college gaming club
>Hey anon, does (wizard) have his spellbook
>No, the drow took it.
>Hey anon, does (cleric) have his holy symbol
>No, the drow took it.
>Hey anon, does (fighter) have a sword
>Wh- no, of course not. The drow did not leave you with your sword
>Well then I guess our only option is to pick up sticks and rocks and bum-rush the guards, still in manacles without any planning, or without saying a single word to any of the prisoner NPCS, while still bound in manacles
>Unarmored PCs shot to death in aa suicide rush fifteen minutes into the game, ending the campaign immediately
>WTF ANON WE HAD *NO OTHER CHOICE* BUT TO FIGHT THEM
>Player asserts that I'm no longer GM and that I should come back next week to see "how it's really done"

I'm not getting a good feeling about this club anymore.

>>55356510
?

>>55356490
Well, he should have thought about making one of his legendary actions "phase through the floor and shit" or "turn into a cloud". Instead, what he did was "you can move and not provoke opportunity attacks", which isn't helpful when your speed is 0.

This is what happens when you spend all your time terrorizing peasants and crying about your girlfriend instead of plotting how to fuck up adventurers.

>>55356473
wtf does strahd not have legendary actions?

How versatile is Paladin in this edition, and which oath is the best at that?

>>55356546
>versatile
Paladins are alpha striking healbots. They're really good at it though, so it's ok.

>>55356510
Yes, I'm not saying they're underpowered relative to Bards, but bards get way more features than them (plus magical secrets letting them cherrypick from the best of those Wizard "class features"). 2/3 spellcasting would bring Bards down to a point where they're an actual jack-of-all-trades, not a jack-of-all-trades and master of spellcasting.

>>55356539
>"you can move and not provoke opportunity attacks"
so your DM is literally retarded, got it

>>55356511
Don't go back

>>55356539
No it's what happens when your DM is retarded.

>>55356455
You get the armor anyway, so I guess bard. Suppose DEX saves are useful too.

>>55356546
Define versatile. They're still bad at range and AoE (one oath kinda has an AoE option in Moonbeam) since smites are single target and melee restricted. Outside of that, they're very solid. Built properly, they're beefy, the burst extremely well and put out respectable damage when they don't, they have pretty decent healing options between aura of vitality and lay on hands, and the Oaths do actually offer very different playstyles. Oath of the Ancients seems to be the most flexible at doing anything and everything

>>55356511
I'm playing the first session of oota tonight, wish me luck
Unluck them, we aren't retarded

>>55356222
How many levels of bard should one take?

>>55356596
>already get the armor
Life domain gets heavy armor, Valor bards only get medium and Lore only get light. Con saves are more important for casters than Dex, for concentration.

>>55356419
>hate Marisha as a person
I see this a lot from people. She's the only cast mate I don't care for, but why the vitriol hate?

Best class for DMPC's? My players are a bit new and few so I decided someone to say "hey maybe thats not a good idea" to situations like >>55356511 might be useful

>>55356613
Depends what you want to do.

>>55356545
All he could do is try and slap people nearby. He did manage to hit both the Sorc and Bard once, even with his disadvantage.

>>55356570
He can move up to his speed.
A grappled creature's speed is 0.

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>>55356511
>Hey anon, does (wizard) have his spellbook
>No, the drow took it.
>Hey anon, does (cleric) have his holy symbol
>No, the drow took it.
Wait a second, clerics and wizards start Out of the Abyss not being able to cast spells? When do they get their shit back? Does the module make them spend their first level being useless or something?
I'm just about to start an OOTA game and now I'm scared

>>55356613
Depends how much of a Paladin you want to be, and what kind of Bard.
Pal2/Valor18 is good for Extra Attack and War Magic, Pal6/Lore14 is good, Pal7/Lore13 is good for Ancients.

>>55356641
That's my point you mong, why the fuck would he use that legendary action if he can't fucking move

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>>55356613
Really depends on what you want out of it, most people just say the 2Pal/18Bard like a sorcadin. However it's not going to kill you if you go up to 6 for more from Paladin, 7 if OoA and want the magic resistance.

So /5eg/ my DM asked the party to min max some specific classes as much as possible and run them on the next session as a sidestory to the campaign. We were assigned the classes and were told to make them as powerful as they can be.
I am going to play a Hexblade Warlock, level 10, no MC, every book and all official content available, UA included. What's the most OP I can make him?
The party is also going to have a Champion Fighter, and an Evocation Wizard, from what I learned.

>>55356637
Champion Fighter. Simplest class in the game, few resources and no spells to keep track of.

>>55356637
Something very support focused, or maybe horribly optimized since you don't want to outshine your players whatsoever. Bitch-boy cleric or a warlock who doesn't budget his abilities perhaps?

>>55356646
>hey anon, does (fighter) have the tool he needs to murder people
>No, the drow took it.
>hey anon, does (caster) have the tool he needs to alter reality, teleport, melt walls, and murder people?
>Yes, it would be unfair if you lost your class' defining feature

>>55356637
None. If you think the answer to that post was having a DMPC then you missed the entire problem.

>>55356678
not that post in particular, just saw it and it reminded me that I meant to ask the general

>>55356657
>Pal 6/Lore14
That sounds like the makings of an interesting skill monkey Gish type. Especially if you go Dex pally.

>>55356626
To me she's just outright annoying, time and again gets far too drunk during break and just drags the game to a grinding halt when it has to be explained yet again "no you can't do x". She is only edged out as my least favorite from that show by Orian.

>>55356646
Clerics/druids can carve focuses/holy symbols out of the mushrooms iirc

>>55356637
Acolyte or priest from Monster Manual? (Unless your party has cleric who likes to heal)

>>55356646
Except neither wizard nor cleric need those to actually cast spells.

>>55356692
Don't use DMPCs at all. If they have, and want to bring along NPCs then that's what the players decide, but don't force your voice onto the group.

>>55356662
He didn't, he spent all of them on trying to claw at players. >>55356539 was referring to a theoretical Strahd designing his own toolkit, not the actions of the Strahd in my game.

Anyone here ever done a fighter/thief mc? Should I go dual wilding or dueling?

>>55356676
Yeah but a fighter/barbarian can pick up any old martial weapon after the first riot and be proficient in it, a wizard isn't going to fucking trip over a new spellbook and an ingredient pouch in the underdark or whatever

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>>55356694
>Mfw already doing that with an OoA/Lore styled after the three musketeers

>>55356700
The drunk thing I hear a lot too, but never noticed it really. Always thought she was just retarded.

Is the drinking even confirmed?

>>55356620
Ah shit, I'm retarded, I thought clerics had CON saving throws.

>>55356714
I asked them if they wanted a helping npc of course. I'm not an asshole to my friends.

>>55356626
She plays a cringey fedora-tier character with a total snowflake backstory, doesn't understand the majority of her spells after playing for years, derails frequently to deliver dramatic monologues written at an 8th-grade level, and sometimes comes off like she's trying to play the DM's girlfriend card.
In fairness, Liam does a lot of cringey monologuing shit too but avoids most of Marisha's other issues.

TL;DR She spends too much time distracting from the Travis & Sam show which is by far the most entertaining part of CR.

>>55356608

>unluck them
>not retarded

Hmmm

>>55356646
You can still cast cantrips and prepared spells (as long as they don't require Material components).

>>55356752
>Liam does a lot of cringey monologuing shit too
Don't talk shit on Liam. The man's an unabashed edgelord and I love him for it

>>55356725
you can use cantrips until you get your spellbook back

>>55356713
>Except neither wizard nor cleric need those to actually cast spells.
>Casting some spells requires particular Objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a Component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell.
The cleric most certainly, 100 percent does need their Holy Symbol to cast any spells that require components.

Also, the wizard needs his spellbook to prepare spells, so at most a wizard in OOtA is limited to the spells they had remembered when the Drow captured them.

>>55356737
They've gotten gifts from fans before of alcohol and even talked about savoring it while playing early on. Also Sam uses a flask to fill his cup more often than not

>>55356546

It kind of varies. All paladins can get some serious burst with critical Smites, and their Lay on Hands is a very effective healing tool-they tend to lack dedicated range options, though. As for Oaths, Devotion is mostly defense/support-oriented with its spell list and anti-Charm aura, with some extra bonuses against undead and fiends. Ancients has more control options, some AoE spells, and a magic damage-resistant aura. Combined with bonuses against fey and fiends, this makes them a pretty effective magic/anti-magic presence on the team. Vengeance is an incredibly vicious melee striker, with spells and abilities that boost their single-target damage to extreme levels, albeit at the cost of losing most of their team support features.

Anyone here ever done a fighter/thief mc? Should I go dual wilding or dueling?

>>55356779
Oh don't get me wrong, I like him, the only issue I really have with Vax is when he derails to get smoochy with Keyleth. I haven't watched in a long time though so maybe that has improved.

>>55356725
God forbid the Wizard apply his godlike intellect to his profession and scavenge like the rest of the party. He can find plenty of bat guano in the Underdark to cast fireballs with, and a good DM would let you murder various cave denizens for their ichor or track down strange, otherworldly flora for extracts to make your magical inks with. Rope the rest of the party in on it, get that fucking Ranger to use his Survival skill to track down the stuff you need.

After that, all you need is a writing implement (a fucking rock) and something to write on (the inside of the sandals you stole off that guard after your party shanked him).

Remember, you can still cast without your spellbook. Losing your spellbook only locks your ability to change your prepared spells. You can rest and regain expended spell levels as normal, but you can't swap out spells known. As for WHAT spells you can cast, that's limited by your ability to scrounge for supplies, IF the spells you have prepared even have material components associated with them. Given that you're likely to have only a few prepped spells with components, you can target all your gathering towards that and creating a new spellbook.

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>>55356776
>actually caring about a fucking typo
Retard please go

>>55356795
That require material components. A cleric who doesn't have a holy symbol can still shit Sacred Flames all day

>>55356646
>spellbook
You only need spellbook to prepare new spells, you still remember the ones you've prepared before being captured.
>holy symbol
You only need a spellcasting focus if the spell requires a material component.

>>55356752
>but avoids most of Marisha's other issues.
Then immediately goes above and beyond by being worse than a woman on her period with his mood swings of "oh I love Kiki soooo much!" and "nothing in life matters because Raven Queen"

>>55356842
Dueling or defense, especially if you get extra attack. TWF gives you another Sneak Attack chance but also eats your Cunning Action which is really good to have.
What level split and archetypes are you thinking though?

>>55356842
RAW dual wielding is pretty bad for anyone that gets extra attacks. It wants house-ruling.

>>55356891
Why?

>>55356725
Cantrips, and spells without material components. Burning Hands, Charm Person, Detect Magic, Disguise Self, Expedious Retreat, an already summoned familiar, Fog Cloud, Magic Missile, Ray of Sickness, Shield, or Thunderwave. They must have some meaningful combination of usable spells.

>>55356891
It really needs to not eat into your bonus action economy somehow.

>>55356852

I agree. Do I need to show you where the door is or do ya' got it, champ?

>>55356534
Presumably he means wizard spells, which can conceivably be used in such a way to duplicate or invalidate other features.

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>>55356844
That reminds me I need to catch up, they're nearing the end of the campaign from what I've heard. The thought of Travis rolling up a non retarded character does pic related

>>55356909
Eats your bonus action, and comparing a TWF with two shortswords to a GWF with a maul, at level 5, the TWF is doing 3d6 and the maul is doing 4d6, plus they still have a bonus action.

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>>55356928

>>55356954
Take Dual Wield as a feat and you're doing 3d8 and your AC gets a nice bump...

>>55357017
The dual wielder feat isn't actually very good. Going from a d6 to a d8 only adds +1 more damage on average. You get the same thing and more just by getting +2 dex/str.

Revised Beastmaster ranger who went TWF style here, how bad did I fuck up?

>>55356909
What other folks said is also right, but what I meant is that for a melee attacker that doesn't get extra attacks (pretty much just [Swashbuckler] Rogue and odd gishes), having a second attack from the offhand feels more appealing than a fighter getting a fourth, etc.

Here's a list of a Wizard's first level spells with components.

>Alarm (tiny bell and fine silver wire)
Not happening unless you get into an Underdark settlement
>Chromatic Orb (50gp diamond)
Just cast Fire Bolt
>Color Spray (differently colored sand or powders)
Scrape colored stones or dye any kind of sand (also from scraped stone) with blood and whatever else
>Comprehend Languages (pinch of soot and salt)
Easy. Distill sweat if you can't find salt.
>False Life (tiny bit of booze)
Easy if you've been anywhere with humanoids.
>Feather Fall (a white feather)
Well, if there is something with feathers in the Underdark, it's probably white because pigmentation is useless in the permanent dark.
>Find Familiar (10gp worth of charcoal, incense, herbs, and a brass brazier)
You can make charcoal and incense, and find herbs, but the brazier's a tough sell
>Grease (pigskin or butter)
Milk a bat, churn butter.
>Healing Elixir (alchemists supplies)
Probably not.
>Ice Knife (a drop of water)
seriously
>Identify (owl feather and 100gp pearl)
Not happening
>Illusory Script (10gp lead ink)
Do you have a Dwarf in the party?
>Jump (grasshopper's hind leg)
Vrocks are like giant fiend grasshoppers so kill one of them I guess
>Longstrider (dirt)
oof what a tough one
>Mage Armor (cured leather)
Someone in the party probably already killed something for their armor.
>Protection from E+G (holy water / powdered silver and iron)
Got a Cleric or a Dwarf?
>Silent Image (fleece)
Nope.
>Sleep (fine sand)
Easy.
>Snare (30ft rope)
Find a settlement or fibrous vines. Plants exist in the UD.
>Tasha's Hideous Laughter (tarts and a feather)
Probably not.
>Unseen Servant (string and wood)
Easy.
>Witch Bolt (lightning-struck tree wood)
I guess if you have a Tempest Cleric or some memester with Lightning Lure you could manufacture this, but you shouldn't be casting Witch Bolt anyway.

>>55357017
Right but then you're spending a feat. The equivalent for the other side of the argument would be GWM or Polearm Mastery. So 3d8 + AC boost vs. 4d6+20 (with -5 penalty to attack) or 2d10+1d4 and opportunity attacks out the wazoo

How broken is this potentially, if at all:

> Break down the class dichotomy, and reduce everything to features (retain where each feature comes from to keep track of spellcasting and HD)
> whenever you level up, you take that classes feature for the appropriate level
> same for any archetype features
> spellcasting dependent on number of levels you took from that class
> HD dependent on what class that feature was taken from
> feats can be chosen as if they're features

>>55356274
This. The Palalock MC is fucking cancer (Sorlock too, but it's a bit less braindead) and I wish retards would learn that the class is good at a bunch of other shit other than ''dude smite lmao''.
There are people that seriously and unironically think Aura of Protection isn't the best feature Paladin gets.

On that note, 5e is much better than other editions in the not making classes suck dick if you push for 20 instead of multiclassing sense. I like that. A lot of the capstones are shit, yeah, but at least the progression before that doesn't actively gimp you.

>>55357064
just play a different system/10

>>55357017
If we're taking feats then take the GWM feat and the maul is doing 4d6+20, and has his bonus action free to do another 2d6+10 if he kills a guy.

>>55357064
stop

>>55357035
Not bad, since beastmasters don't get extra attack and now you have twice the hitting when you don't need to use your bonus action for dash/hide/spells

>>55357064
Have you tried not playing DnD?

>>55357035
Two weapon fighting is best for Beastmaster. They don't get extra attack, so investing in sharpshooter, or great weapon master is a waste.

>>55356015
I'm thinking of making a Lizardfolk moon druid going for maximum DINO DAMAGE, what spells or magic items would best help maximize my potential in dino form? Equipment doesn't change size, but magic items will.

>>55357064
D&D is not the answer.

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Are there any rules for becoming a god already?

>>55357064
it's called gestalt and anyone that has ever even thought of considering it is a flaming faggot.

>>55357221
Become enlightened by your own intelligence.

playing an Arcane Archer Fighter with heavy crossbow. What are my feats other than Sharpshooter and Crossbow Expert?

>>55357221
>Start game
>pick wizard or bard

>>55357064
Am I the only one who can't tell what practical difference this makes apart from nerfing multiclass casters?

>>55357253
One might even become euphoric.

>>55357280
Picking a different weapon since AA doesn't work with crossbows

>>55357280
Arcane Archer only works with shortbows or longbows by the book so make sure you ask your DM if you haven't already

>>55357237
That's not gestalt

>>55357280
Sniper?

>>55357280
None. Just take the ASI.

>>55357237
That's not what it's called. You are the flaming faggot

>>55357312
Can you cheese with this feat by just waiting till the last attack of your extra attack feature to shit out another attack? If not, it seems kinda shit

>>55357221
http://folk.uio.no/andremoa/Wrath%20of%20the%20Immortals/Wrath%20Of%20The%20Immortals%20-%20Codex%20Of%20The%20Immortals.pdf
Page 42.

>>55357331
This is 5e, gramps.

>>55356950
As things stand, there's a high likelihood that they all fail and the next campaign has to deal with the fallout of a godhood Vecna walking around, Finger of Death-ing anything that might rise up to oppose him.

>>55357290
It let's you pick and choose features as you level up, instead of having to go through normal level progressions to get those features via traditional multiclassing

>>55356737
Even if they are drinking it doesn't mean they're getting trashed. I wouldn't mind having a few drinks or more during a 3-4 hour session.

I'm fairly certain Marisha just has a bad brain.

>>55357399
All right Anon, show me the 5E source material for my upcoming campaign in the FORGOTTEN REALMS(tm) nation of Thay, a very large and important place with a unique political structure and culture that could fill several pages of one of the many fluff books that have no doubt been put out this edition!

>>55357438
Marisha gets trashed though. Just watch the last hour of the episode where they fought the Kraken. She can barely form sentences.

>>55357444
>Rules are different than fluff.

Does spellbook have to be a book? I'm DMing a game, and I've had this idea of a very primitive wizard, who writes his spells on the walls of a cave he lives in.

>>55357482
Well, I need rules for my RED WIZARD OF THAY villain and how their unique Circle Magic operates.

While we're on the subject, since the worship of Kossuth is very big in Thay, maybe you could point me to his stats? You never know when an avatar might make an appearance, or sneaky zulkirs might summon him again to wipe out an invading salamander army.

>>55357506
He has to return to the cave to swap out his prepared spell list. It's pretty inconvenient.

>>55357506
It can be anything you can write on, but, uh, probably not best for an adventuring Wizard to have to go back to his house to change his spells prepared every night.

You can have multiple books, though??

>>55357527
>>55357533
He's DMing the game, so this is probably an npc

>>55356737
I just started watching on a whim. They did a giant Q&A after episode 4, someone asked "Do you guys drink while playing." and they all gave one of those "hahahaha nooooooooooo why would ever think that" type replies as liam and sam take huge swigs from their mugs. I guess they just keep all the products off camera

>>55357471
>Marisha gets trashed though. She can barely form sentences.

thatsmyfetish.jpg

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>>55357406
I'm a sucker for settings where the bad guys have already won and can only hope Mercer won't pull punches if it comes to this.

>>55357438
A few drinks would be fine but like >>55357471 said, any stressful fight she gets way too drunk. Even better is before this they all build a plan that revolves around the one person who will be the most useless because of being drunk.

>>55357609
I just know in the back of my mind that if VM are about to lose, Matt's gonna swoop in with his group of NPCs to save the day...

Speaking of, whenever I drink I forget my tolerance's ass so I showed up kinda trashed to our last session and then kept drinking because I have excellent impulse control and decision making capabilities.

Our group thought it was funny, but we're friends and whatnot. It felt pretty bad the morning after, so I'm having a hard time imagining someone showing up drunk to their games so consistently.

>>55357658
I'm kind of torn on what I think he would do. If there wasn't 20k+ people watching I think he would be fine with wiping them if they goofed enough. I imagine he feels some kind of pressure to keep the party alive with so many people who are invested in them though.

If things go as south in the fight as they did against the beholder and the escape scene after, I would hope he kills them.

If witchbolt cost a bonus action to repeat, would that be okay? One of my players likes the idea of the spell but not the execution, so I wanted to make it a bit better for him

>>55357681
I usually maintain a buzz every time I play or run a game. The only exception is usually when I'm running a game for new players since it takes more work to get them out of their shells. I prefer the players having a few drinks to loosen them up if that's the case.

Rolled 9, 4, 3 = 16 (3d10)

>>55357506
What's wrong with stone tablets?

>>55357695
Assuming no other changes, that doesn't seem like it would be too much of a problem. It would be a lot stronger at low levels but it wouldn't fall off as hard.

>>55356511
Are these new players?

If it's your first time DMing for a group you should take time to establish your game style. They probably thought it was just a hack and slash game.

Rolled 1, 4, 10 = 15 (3d10)

>>55357727
Fugg give me longbenis

>>55357681
It's not that they show up drunk, they might be buzzed but it gets noticeable worse as the night goes on.

Mounted combat rules and the way they fuck with initiative are dumb. Why would a knight not be able to impale an enemy with his lance before the controlled warhorse tramples the enemy?

>>55357609
I've got one for you.

So, the undead won. They crushed all the mortal kingdoms, drove everyone into hiding, scoured all life from the surface, and even blotted out the sun so they could walk around in eternal night without having to worry about that pesky light or warmth. But this wasn't good enough for them; each individual undead lord wanted complete dominion over the planet, and warred against the others.

But they fucked up.
No plants grow, so there's nothing to eat, no new animals or people being born, no new skeletons to create from their corpses. So when the armies clashed and smashed their bones to pieces, they would be reanimated in lesser number each time, or using damaged bones. "Thrifty" skeletons were made with just the bare minimum to be effective, sometimes with the wrong sort of bone in place. But those were broken, and their replacements broken, and their replacements broken, and so on and so forth until at last they were all dust.

After a few thousand years of going through all the corpses of the people who died during their great victory and the subsequent scouring, and digging up the bodies of those who died hundreds or thousands or even hundreds of thousands of years before, the undead lords have just run out of fucking bones. Now there hasn't been life to feed on in millennia, and the sky is still dark, and they can't work a spell powerful enough to override that shit because there's no one around to blood sacrifice by the millions as before. The great tomb-cities were already as silent as the grave, but now they don't even have skeletons hanging around, waiting to spring back into action, and the stone and metal of their walls have been worn away to sand and rust. Even the great undead lords have hit the eternal snooze button, hoping something will happen to give their unlives meaning again.

You play as, I dunno, some spaceship people / deep cavemen / The Last Skellingtons in a world where everything is FUCKING DUST.

>>55357748
Even moderately tipsy is enough to slow the whole game down, it's kind of funny but on the regular I'd just get ir8

>>55357767
Or maybe it'd just be a nice planet / plane to visit for a session or two. Really creep everyone the fuck out. Or the origin for a benevolent lich.
>yeah i spent 600,000 years with nothing to do after exterminating all life, turns out it's a shitty plan, i'm into sustainable mortal farming, organic and suffering-free

>>55357760
Well, a dummb mount matches its initiative to the rider which makes things easier. If you want to allow mounts to make attacks thats fine go for it

>>55357767
>Meet Sir Coughagus, last paladin unalive
Would play/10

>>55357788
That's what I was thinking about doing. It's thematic enough and really doesn't break the game.

>>55357786
>the lich who runs the most successful and prosperous kingdom where everything is great and there's plenty of food and no monsters or disease or threat of war and you can squeeze out as many babies as you want
>but you get Logan's Runned at age 50

>>55356646
You're not MEANT to bumrush the guards on the first night.

You're meant to play the prisoner while trying to sneak the tools you need.

In our first night, our wizard managed to collect a empty spice bottle from the kitchen and managed to steal a small tuft of down from the silken pillows in the Elites quarters. He filled the bottle with some water and now had access to Ice Knife and Feather Fall to use in the escape. Two of the others managed to get the jump on one of the guards to kill him, dumping his body in the shit-pit and stashing his gear.

Then later in the escape when demons attacked, the Bard weaved an illusion of a demon chasing the Ranger and himself Disguise Self'd as the missing Drow Guard into the kitchens for cover. Where they quickly grabbed the two sacks of food the Ranger had put to one side, 180'd and everyone vaulted over the edge to drop down with a feather fall in the chaos.

>>55356511
Just don't go back

>>55357821
>a party of 49-year-olds one month away from their birthday who decide to GTFO and take their free ride with them

>>55357821
Probably so great because the burden of old age is completely removed desu, also no paladins to stamp out wight pride

>>55357849
Naw, there's Paladins, they just don't have anything to complain about. I mean, is the existence of this ONE LICH really that big a deal if he's improving everyone's lives so immensely? You kind of owe your existence to him at that point. It's like, he's been paying out Social Security for you before you were even born, and you don't have to give anything back until you hit 50 (at which point you give eeeeeeeeverything back).

>>55357862
>Oath of the Lich
>all your tenets are about doing community service and improving your neighborhood
>basically a non-jackass Dark Sun Templar for someone who isn't a bitch, but he's still going to devour your essence

>>55356954
What if your e kensai monk and can't get heavy weapons?

>>55357862
I have an inkling that SOME paladins wouldn't be cool with what is effectively a zombie farm no matter how prosperous
I sure would though

>>55357906
Probably not the ones that grow up there.

Who knows what the Lich is doing to keep all the asshole Paladins from outside his kingdom from attacking it, though.
>start any shit and I vaporize 300,000 people, gain two more levels, and blame it on you
>they'll believe me

>>55357506
Tattoo his spells on his skin.

>>55357904
Then you can unarmed strike as a bonus action and don't need to TWF

>>55357221
I know that to become a lich you need cast a sequence of Spells that are something like Magic Jar, Etherealness, Clone, Hallow and Wish for them to be permanent in sequence

>>55357731
Would that bonus action damage cast as a spell? Would this mean that you can't cast as an action and use witch bolt in the same turn?

>>55357928
>Kim Jong Lich if all the North Korean propaganda were true

>>55357959
Maintaining the effects of a spell is not the same as casting it. You'd still be able to cast as normal with your action.

>>55357958
Or touch this box in Barovia

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>>55357928
>Party of asshole paladins
>Storm litch kingdom because muh oath
>Everyone's so happy here, wtf?
>Slay evil litch
>Kingdom plunged into chaos
>MFW

>>55357958
So I'm guessing a sequence of series of 9th level Hallows, Gate, Wish and True Ressurection

High enough liches get multiple 9th level slots...

>>55357931
What if you want to dual wield whips? Your dm probably wont let you play bugbear so you won't have 2 reach attacks.

>>55357991
This box in Barovia asks you to be able to cast 9th level spells for a reason...

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>>55357609
Nechronica.

TLDR: Necromancer rises up to destroy the world and exterminate humanity. He does, He wins, Everyoe dies. The end.

Now we begin Nechronica, the long, long sequel to our world, a wasteland populated only by the crawling dead, the crooked machines and the dolls, young women who are part marionette, part machine, part undead, part monster, part abomiantion, and a very small part, human. They are not created to serve the Necromancer, nor to combat him, but only to exist and live for his amusements, struggling to survive in a world where everything is death, decay and dispair with only each other to rely on. They cannot die, because they are beyond death. A broken arm is as fixed as shoving a new one into the joint, even a crushed skull can be replaced and repaired. The only death that awaits them is when that spark of hope dies, and they are left trapped within their own mind, truely broken and unable to face the reality that is the long long sequel to our world, Nechronica.

Basically it's build-your-ideal-dispair-loli-and-fight-zombies, you can be chainsaw wielding yandere loli, or a mutant half-tyrannid four armed loli, or a collected senpai loli with a pair of katanas, to a near unkillable half-zombie loli who can have half her guts and more spill out and not even flinch, to a qausi-mech battle loli meido with a .50 cal.

>>55356886
Battlemaster and thief I'm thinking. Or revised ranger (deep stalker)

>>55358032
Sounds like that I HAVE NO MOUTH YET I MUST SCREAM shortstory

What do you think of the Celestial Warlock?

I think it looks cool to play, and I like it when they give non healer classes a subclass that has the option to do so, like tranquility monk.
My biggest complain though is that d6 are really bad, they should have went with a pool of hp like with paladin or tranquility monk.

>>55356842

Go TWF if you're choosing Swashbuckler as your rogue archetype; otherwise, just choose Defense. The +2 bonus in damage can be offset by your sneak attack anyways, just find ways to be hit less.

Has anyone here played a Shadow Sorcerer? I'm looking to play one and I'd like to hear some opinions

>>55358063
I can see the Paladin and Warlock multiclass here being problematic

What could a Warlock offer to her patron other than her soul? What do the Fey want?

>>55358095
Their firstborn son.

>>55358095
entertainment

Any of you Anon's who have ToA, care to take a picture of the CR3 turtle in the book? Having a session tonight and the form might be useful to my druid.

>>55357991
Touch the box, it goes "Alright bud, can you cast 9th level spells? Are you evil? Alright then. First, cast Magic Jar, Etherealness, Clone, Hallow and Wish for them to be.."

>>55358104
>>55358106
These are both solid

>>55358095
They don't want anything now, but they might ask you for a favor sometime down the line.

>>55356637
>someone to say "hey maybe thats not a good idea" to situations
Just...say that to them yourself?
Also: Why do you need a DMPC to do that? Why not have hirelings, paiges, camp followers? Tradesmen? Or, you know, NPCs?

>>55358079
Darkness abuse is fucking brutal if if you don't cheese it. Other party members won't be too keen but seriously spend a sorcery point, cast darkness on your cloak and sit back in a shroud of disadvantage to hit me while I have advantage to hit you. We also have a Warlock with Devil-Sight so she sits and spits Eldrich Blasts non-stop too while being hard to hit.

DM tried throwing a couple devils at them who could see but the Warlock just cast Banishment and deleted em.

>>55358095
other people's souls (in the case of fiend)

other cases simply the warlock themselves being loyal to the patron is enough. if an archfey or fiend was interested enough in the going ons of the mortal world, having a loyal and powerful emissary in that realm would be useful.

>>55358160
Even if you don't cheese it.*

What book is sitting on the table behind Matt in the new Force Gray series? Looks like it reads Red Wizards of Thay.

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>>55358113
Real quick before my own session

>>55358160
Why would they have advantage to hit?

>>55358182
I didn't know it was Tomb of Australia

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>>55358197

>>55358091
How so?

>>55358187
When a creature can't see you, you have advantage to hit it.

>>55358182
Why is it upside down?

>>55358207
Blanking on the specific part of this, but can you source that? That certainly applies in melee combat when your opponent is blinded and you're not, but if you're sitting on the back lines in darkness, you don't get advantage for hitting something that isn't obscured. They just have disadvantage to hit you, as they cannot see you.

>>55358227
Because it failed the check to not be knocked prone, didn't you read the statblock?

What should I play next if I've only played a Rogue thus far?

>>55358249
Whatever the fuck you want.

Our party Druid cast Awaken on our horses. Now the DM has to deal with Disney movie personality horses. I thought it was funny and wanted to share with my BFFs in /5eg/

>>55358182
Okay damgae but only +6 to hit with no multi-attack, AC17 and 75HP make em kinda bulky but gets wrecked if it is proned.

Why the fuck is this CR3?

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>>55358182

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>>55358197

>>55358237
"When a creature can’t see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it." PHB pg 195

>>55358263
I think because it's a pretty decent threat to squishy party members. 4d6+mod can hurt a lower level character pretty bad.

>>55358237
>>55358284
Yep. Something very important to note is that attack rolls include melee, ranged, and spell attack rolls.

So Eldritch Blast spam works.

>>55358263
https://astranauta.github.io/crcalculator.html#3,75,17,18,6,false,Large,10,14,false,0,false,0,traits:

It checks out.

>>55358237
Page 194-195 Unseen Attackers and Targets.
"When a creature can't see you, you have advantage on attack rolls against it."

>>55358095
They want your Charismatic high octane nightmare ass to be the best you can be with the help of the magnificent powers this endowed Eldritch knowledge can provide.

Chaos after all, is a ladder

>>55358294
Fair enough, I just can't see a fight with a couple of these being a challenge to appropriate characters but I guess the idea is it's a lumbering roadblock while the other enemies skirmish you, but still hurts the rare time it manages to land a blow.

Well, just got done DMing my first ever session tonight. Started as a total fucking trainwreck but I feel like I scraped it together a bit toward the end.

I've learned that my ability to do voices is about as shitty as my vocabulary which sucks, but here's to the worst part been over and done with.

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>>55358182
Right side up.

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>>55358197

>>55358284
Wew. Simply wew. Guess the DM better learn what the fuck dispel is.

>>55358337
Throw in a couple of those cr 1/2 snakes that can leap 30 feet for a 4d6 bite or something like that to really put the fear into your players

>>55358341
>trying to do voices before practicing in private
>doing anything without practice

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>>55358182
Jeez, okay, okay, I got you

>>55358380
Who said I didn't practice?

>>55356128
Ah, the good old days of completely shafting Illusionists for no particular reason.

>no, you don't get to participate in combat
>now shush, turn invisible or whatever and disappear

Wait, what book are these new monster things in? What is ToE?

>>55358355

are there any other druid forms worth using?

Is Oath of Ancients the most fun Paladin?

>>55358441
Tomb of Annihilation.
It's the adventure loosely based on Tomb of Horrors that comes out on hardback by the end of this month.

>>55358416
Just use conjuration/transmutation.

>>55358011
Polearm with PAM is 1000 times better. Whips are p. bad.
>inb4 finesse
Then sure, go ahead and have fun getting tangled up in your two terrible whips.

Never played or played with an illusionist. I know its very DM dependant, but I can see most of their utility only outside of combat in the early to mid levels.
How do you play an illusionist in combat?

>>55358494
but anon, dual wielding whips has one advantage over PAM besides finesse.

it's because it's fun

>>55358052
Yeah, either way you get extra attack so Dueling is probably your best bet if you want to maximize your damage.

>>55358459
Absolutely.

>>55358395
Nigga what exactly are sitting on top of?
Because I'm getting really tired of your shit

>>55358520
Spinning your halberd around and whacking critters with the butt-end is fun too though, and less memey than flailing two whips around like you're in some kinda Chinese cartoon.

>>55358581
why

Which weapon of warning should I get for my monk?

>>55358620
Codpiece.

>>55358620
Glove

Rate my homebrew item out of 10

Fissure Ring
While wearing the fissure ring, unarmed attacks have +2 to hit against earthen creatures and similar elementals. The wearer also gains proficiency in unarmed attacks when fighting such creatures. Once a day, the fissure ring's power can be channeled for a single round as a free action. When used this way, every unarmed attack made this turn also casts Shatter on the target. Shatter deals 3d8 thunder damage to all enemies in a 10-foot cone in front of you. If the victims pass a DC 16 constitution save, they take half damage. Inorganic enemies have a disadvantage on this saving throw. The ring loses its passive effect until the next day when used this way.

>>55358412
record yourself practicing and play it back later to see how gay you sound.

>>55358620
Socks or clogs

>>55358620
Adamantine Crowbar.

>>55358620
Yourself. Rip your shirt off and scream for your homies to hold you back before you quivering palm that faggot prison bitch talking shit.

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>>55358494
>polearm
>kensai

>>55358643
Who hates earth elementals enough to need this that doesn't have better ways of taking them out?

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>>55358637
>>55358638
>>55358650
>>55358653
>>55358658
Cheeky cunts.

>>55358355
added to the ToA leaks album
http://imgur.com/a/iglMj

>>55358643
7/10, all PCs are already proficient in unarmed strikes so this part is redundant, maybe just give them advantage on unarmed attacks against constructs and earth elementals instead of +2 and "proficiency."
Maybe base the Shatter DC on the attacker's Str score instead (8+prof+Str modifier)?

>>55358658
I vaguely imagined the monk ripping his own skin off while screaming. Gotta be careful of enchanting bones.

So in your personal opinions what's flavorful for a sailor dwarf barbarian to MC into? We are doing a large campaign at sea and the barbarian doesn't fully fit where I feel he should

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>>55358711
>Maybe deviate from the standard formula for no discernible reason

>>55358711
>All pc's already proficient in unarmed
Had no idea! Thanks anon. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't useless for non-monks.
>Change Shatter DC
I might try that. Tbh I picked a random number that felt good for the saving throw DC

>>55358643
Free actions are not something defined in 5e. Just saying "Once per day, you can channel the rings power for six seconds..."

Why the fuck is half elf so good? Now everytime I choose anything but half elf for CHA based classes I feel like I'm being sub-optimal.

feats in 5e are just all around trash. i dont want useless +2 ASI to dump stats, I want more than 2 feats that are actually good for my build.

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>tfw hoarding homebrew crafting supplements & alternate rules pdfs
WHERE IS MY UA: FOOD & PROVISIONS?!?!?!

>>55358733
Why are there still no aquatic animal options for totem warrior? Shark would fit so well

>>55358782
>only a few ASIs you can afford to forego for feats
>only a few feats you need
What's the problem?

>>55358781
>4 stat points boost, more than anyone except non-variant human but who the fuck plays that
>a bunch of useful variant features, including perception, two skills, cantrips, extra movement speed, swim speed and/or once-a-long-rest free spells
gee I wonder

>>55358643
>every unarmed attack made this turn also casts Shatter
>4 attacks from attack action
>4 attacks from action surge
>1 bonus attack
>+27d8 in 1 round
What the fuck is wrong with you?

Anyone with any experience with puzzles in dungeons? Relatively new to the game (~7 sessions under my belt, same campaign, loving it so far) and some friends of mine who have never played want me to DM for them. I'm probably going to be ass but it's really their only shot since I'm the only one who's played. I want to introduce some puzzles into the dungeons. Any ideas?

>>55358840
That doesn't seem THAT insane for a level 20 fighter

>>55358781
Because v.human and half elf are the best races in the game.

>>55358782
Then pickup martial adept and grab some maneuvers to combo with your arrows.

Or Alert.

Or Mage Slayer to double down on making sure you fuck up concentration spells. Or grab Skulker. Or grab Spell Sniper.

>>55358840
Its not even a single turn, it's a single round. So it can be continued with things like OA's, Commanders Strike, yadda yadda.

>>55358743
>No discernible reason
It scales better, and makes sense since it's triggered by a Str-based attack.

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>>55358720
>Be Skeltal Monk
>Wear flesh as a form of deceit
>Rip flesh off when some bitch slaps my elffriend'sass
>Roll intimidate with advantage

While using Countercharm with an instrument (as opposed to singing), can I use my reaction to opportunity attack a creature? How would you rule it?

>>55358778
Object interaction is a thing, however.

>>55358876
It scales worse than the standard formula.

>>55358958
>be skeltal
>understand several languages
>speak none of them
>i have no mouth and I must bantz

>>55358959
If you can play with one hand, kick them, or attack with your mouth.

>>55359001
>8 + Prof + stat mod
>not the standard formula

>>55359015
>Rattle rattle

OHHHH SHEEEEEEIT

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Is it just me or are these things broken? Flight, okay carrying capacity and thumbs? you can control one as a familiar if your DM allows you, and you can train more? How can I abuse this?

>1st session of OotA
>been 1 hour of drow jail
When does it end

>>55359015
>not using your ribs to tap our moore's code insults

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>>55359021
Read the comment thread.

>>55359030
They might be useful for carrying off American schoolgirls from Kansas.

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>>55359030
>how can I abuse this

Please don't abuse animals

signed,
Friendly Neutral Evil Druid

>>55359036
It's like 1/3 of the module.

>>55359015
>be skeltal
>have healthy and strong bones
>healthy and strong teeth too
>can't make use of my teeth because I don't have a digestive system
>I have no organs and I must eat

>>55359067
>not I have no mouth and I must eat
You should be ashamed anon

>>55358958
Should be a rogue inquisitive.
[Spoiler]After all, no one expects the Spanish Inquisitive.[/Spoiler]

>>55358973
Yes. No one is arguing otherwise. But unless the item says you need to spend an object interaction to activate it, you don't have to - like how javelin of lightning doesn't require you to spend an object interaction to speak its key word.

>>55359043
Imagine the NPC who has to translate that out to his party.

>>55359001
How does it scale worse?

>>55359084
Wow, I'm fucking retarded.

>>55358733
Swashbuckler rogue is an easy pick

>>55359084
>Imagine the NPC who has to translate that out to his party.

He'd hire some cheep bard who wears all black and pretends to not exist, but when the bantz come out he translates them into whatever language is needed with perfect inflection for maximum roastage.

>>55359046
They can carry 120 pounds. Your familiar you carry school children into the sky. Hell, having your familiar grab skeletons in the middle of a fight, carry them up and dropping them sounds like a good use of an action.

>>55359001
It is the standard save DC formula, and is DC16 like the original item at 20 Str by level 6 or 8 (when most martials will get 20 in their attack stat). How exactly does it scale worse if it's equally powerful at level 6 (potentially) and more powerful past level 9?

>>55358733
>Swashbuckler
>Fighter with Mariner fighting style

>>55358782
After 2 feats and increasing your primary ability score to 20, you will be level 16 (level 12 if you're a variant human.) Hardly any campaigns last this long. If you're lucky enough to be in one that does, you can increase your Con or whatever other secondary ability score you have, gain proficiency in an important save, or take some feat that everyone can use like Lucky. I will quit the game before it becomes a mountain of splat material like 3.5.

>>55358032
Have you seen a translation of it online?

>>55358840
>WTF is wrong with you?
I'm a noob GM. Also my PCs won't be that high level. I just want to make cool shit that makes players excited to find new treasure

>>55357077
>>55356274
I disagree. Paladin spikes at about level 6 or 7 and then rapidly loses effectiveness. By the time you get your level 5 spells, they're easily outclassed by anything that any other spellcaster can do.
Paladin is most effective with 6 levels and then going into a full caster (Or warlock, which is sort of a full caster)

>>55356569
I don't have any issue with bards getting full caster progression. They're far more interesting in a party than a wizard.

>>55359107
>play halfling luckomancer wizard
>fly out of danger with the help of my conjured monkey
sounds like a plan to me

>>55358182
>Anon dodges a dmca violation

>>55359144
>B-b-b-but muh wizard supremecy!

>>55359129
But anon, if you hit level 15 as an OoA you can't die!
Also your auras become really awesome when they are 30' instead of 10'.

As goofy as it sounds, a mastiff-riding hallfing paladin seems like a pretty solid character from a combat perspective.
You lose the ability for advantage on medium sized creatures, but you can use it in dungeons and effectively get 40ft movement and cunning action while on the mount

>>55359159
>wizard supremacy
>despite INT skills being mostly trash compared to Wis or Cha skills

>>55356941
Well he's not wrong. Wizard spells invalidate a ton of other class features.

>>55359090
If you roll 18 and take an asi at level 4, you will have the same (broken) non-scaling DC 20 for the rest of the game. If you are a dex fighter with 10 str you will be stuck with an essentially auto-pass DC even if you're a level 20 multiverse-class hero. The standard formula allows the 20 str beefcake to have a strong, yet balanced DC 15 at level 5 and a very high DC 21 at 20. Likewise, the dex fighter will have a mediocre DC 10 at 4 and a mediocre DC 16 at 20.

>>55359144
>Jack of all trades should also be the best at the most important trade, casting spells

>>55359191
If you're a Dex fighter why would you even use the item? Unarmed strikes are only finesse if you're a Monk, so you'll be shit with the ring regardless.

>>55356546
Paladin is not versatile at all. You can do three things as Paladin:
Smite
Heal with Lay on Hands
Be a shittier Cleric with your spells and skills
I recommend taking 2 levels in paladin, or 6, and then going into Bard so you can actually roleplay

>>55359176
>Implying you have to worry about skills when you can cast a spell

>>55359155
now there's an idea.

>>55359175
Yes, it's very effective. I prefer 3 level dip in Revised Ranger if you're not going to be going to super high levels, since my DM started to get into habit of bringing creatures that target my steed, and Animal Companion HP and ASIs scale with player level instead of class level.

>>55359211
It is spell. You unarmed strikes are shit even with this ring that doesn't even buff unarmed strikes at all. Use the spell save formula.

>>55359030
I guess you Could TRY DEFYING, GRAVITY
KISS ME GOODBYE, DEFYING GRAVITY

>>55359225
Bards can cast spells, too.

>>55359200
As I said, it's definitely more fun than wizards.

>>55359175
I actually recommend Kobold paladin with a mount instead.

>>55359251
How would one go about making Elphaba.

I guess she's a hag, archetype wise, so that means a Warlock

>>55358063
I'm excited for a no compromise goody-two shoes option for palalock.

>>55359030
You're right. That is a lot of fucking carrying capacity for a familiar. It can literally lift as much as my baby arm Wizard.

>>55359240
A three level dip seems like it would put you pretty far behind for paladin. Wouldn't it just be easier to use Find Steed whenever it dies and/or just use the mounted combat feat to redirect damage?

>>55359245
Well, the spell save formula is
>8+prof+ability mod

Is the only thing stopping dual wielding from being fixed by making it read "by committing your bonus action for the turn, every attack you make can be followed up by your off hand weapon", level 20 fighters being able to get 20 attacks in a round with action surge?

>>55359317
Yeah, it's not optimal for a paladin, since they already have find steed. Having a beast proficient in history or arcana sometimes come in handy though.
>hey Lassie does this look historical to you?

>>55359278
Some anon posted a Wizardy Sorcerer subclass a few threads back if you can dig it up

Alternatively, consider Wild Magic for how her spells would backfire

anyone played maze of the blue medusa?

is it in the trove in OP?

>>55359349
you're more likely to find in the pdf share thread

>>55359261
And wizards have access to more

>>55359317
Making your Steed your animal companion on the other hand...

>>55359265
Yeah, bards should get extra attack (2) also so that they can be as good as any martial, since they're already as good as any skillmonkey rogue and any spellcaster.

>>55359359
But bards don't even have to stick to their own spell list and can prepare the same amount.

>>55359221
Melee, heal, spell utility, plus the fact that you're probably the party face means you have a pretty decently spread out role.

Not as much as say a Bard or Wizard, but seems pretty good.

>>55359349
I heard it's a fantastic dungeon, reading the book gives me high hopes for it.

>>55359377
party face is filled much better by the bard or cleric or sorc anyways

Spell utility is handled better by any full caster, paladin needs to save most of their spells to do decent damage.

>>55359221
>needing rules to roleplay

>>55359333
They'd get 16, not 20, right?
But to answer your question, no, since it would double their attacks at every level, every round, and let rangers get 4 attacks per round as well. That would be way too powerful.
Letting the (single) bonus attack be part of the attack action, though, instead of a bonus, is fine and removes a lot of the issues around it.

>>55359364
Bards aren't as good as every spellcaster, they just get to steal the best spells from other classes. Wizard still is the best at it.

>>55359388
Realistically all you have to do is hold 1 slot of each level for the chance that you crit and go hog wild with the rest.

I'm bad a sound effects. Any sound boards out there that you guys use for sound effects?

So apparently according to this thread Paladins either are great or they suck.

>>55359403
Oops, yeah 16. And while I see what you're saying, what's wrong with rangers specifically getting 4 attacks per round? Most of their revised extra damage is only once per round anyway

>>55359439
Set up a strawpoll if you need a definitive answer

>>55359155
>Be blind as FUCK
>Refer to your flying monkey as a Parrot
>Confuse everybody

>>55359364
Jesus, where the fuck did all this Bard salt come from, no one ever bitches about bards.

Bards are Bros the class, holy shit, what are you whining about? My Bard keeps my con saves up, my martial on advantage and my skill checks on point.
Bards do nothing but making the rest of us better.

I smell a Sorcerer that he's mad he didn't roll a useful Charisma Caster

>>55359373
Yet wizards can once a day gain spell slots back for free and can swap spells at a long rest.

>>55359176
>Wizard has 8 in every stat but a 20 in intellect
>Can't stealth
>Oh I'll just cast invisibility
>Can't deceive
>Oh I cast Dominate Person
>Can't lift
>Oh I levitate that
>Can't swim
>I cast Teleport
>Can't know shit
>I cast scry
>Can't take a hit
>I'm a Lich

shrug.gif