Conscription

>>55314518
I'm okay with this. Me and psionic Dogey Houser are going to save humanity. Co-ed showers and fascism, ho!

>>55314537

I don't think those guys were called Starship Troopers

>>55314518
Sir Yes Sir! I'm proud to be a citizen!

Let's get those bugs! Oo-rah!

>>55314548
They weren't conscripted either. Clearly this is an Original Setting Do Not Steal.

Let's bounce.

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All I have wanted for the last 12 years is to fight and die for Humanity's empire. This is everything I could have asked for.

>>55314518
I'd like to know more, please.

>>55314518
I just finished the book last week and it's way different and even better than the movie.

>>55314518
Now men (and women), as we know the Bugs are weak and stupid creatures. They have no understanding of tactics or battle strategy, and are too primitive to even build any kind of weapons. Your assault rifles are extremely effective against them. A war against them is less a life-threatening series of desperate battles and more an easy stroll across the surface of a planet with the occasional sporadic turkey shoot, as the unstoppable advance of our military might flushes the cowardly animals out of the shadowy crevices they prefer to hide in.

Oh, and before I forget. They may possess some bio-plasma artillery, but it won't be a threat to superior human armour. It will be random and light. Dismissed!

>>55314671
Why don't we just nuke the bugs sir?

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>>55314518
Oh good, the buffet has arrived.

>>55314518
First you think you will be killing bugs in glorious battles. Next you spend year or so forming pillows into perfect cubed and waxing the floor until in shines. Then you die to a bug.

>>55314518
Shoot me! Murder is wrong!

Oh wait, we're fighting bugs?

Sir please disreguard that sir!

>>55314570
Yeah original setting infantry was basically walking tanks.

Original setting as in the book, It's worth a read.

>>55314683
Because that would destroy the valuable planets they have unjustly claimed. It is humanity's manifest destiny to claim the stars, we will scour these disgusting vermin from the galaxy and claim our birthright!

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>>55314671
Ahem, my good sir. I do say, this is completely insulting. May our Great God have Mercy on you despite your ignorance.

>>55314745
Book and movie the all volunteer nature of the MI, and the benefits for service, were a big plot point. Conscription wouldn't make sense.

Fuck

M.I. does the dying, fleet just does the flying.

tfw not smart enough to be a pilot.

>>55314772

Well our God doesn't believe in mercy for bugs, so fuck you bitch we've got a divine mandate to shove our boots up your collective asses.

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>>55314817
Such anger and Rage! I say, you certainly seemed peeved off my friend. What? Did one of our asteroids crush one of your "oh-so beloved" cities?

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>>55314518

Is there a planet in the Imperium that uses Heinlein's veteran suffrage? If there isn't, then Games Worksop needs to make one. It would be a good replacement for Cadia.

>>55314883

....And now I have fluff for my Scions. Thanks buddy.

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>>55314518
>Starship Troopers
>conscription

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>>55314537
>Co-ed showers and fascism
DAILY REMINDER: THE SOCIETY IN STARSHIP TROOPERS IS A DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC

>>55314745
>Yeah original setting infantry was basically walking tanks.
>walking
rofl

/tg/'s knowledge of starship troopers is a fucking abortion. educate yourselves you ignorant nigger cock guzzling faggots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r9znBPjhjc

>>55314931
They did walk, Anon.

>>55314931

That is not an Ape, that does not reflect the description given in the book at all.

>>55314958
they traveled via jump pack, you cockless homosexual

>>55314931
Military republic, I think.

What do you call it when people do not have franchise be default but are able to earn if it they feel the need?

>>55314883
>rubbing pups nose in their piddle and spanking them

the extreme, hypersonic irony is this doesn't actually work, just causes the dog to associate urine with your displeasure, and confuses and upsets the fuck out of them.

It's also proven that punishment does not deter crime, it's not a matter of being flippy flappy about rights, it just does not fucking work, and if anything our current justice system is TOO hard on for punishment and revenge because it does nothing but harden and anger repeat offenders.

I know Heinlein wasn't actually into the stuff he wrote, he took various sides, but it's hilarious how completely wrong about human nature and order this selection is in every way. No wonder the director felt the need to make the movie satire

>>55314975
a democratic republic without universal sufferage for being born. sufferage must be earned.

>>55314965
>>55314931

>Dudes so dumb, he's only listened to the first 50 pages

>>55314978
It's interesting how he was willing to embrace the idea of 'what if this worked? what would the implications be?' for not only technology as is common for science fiction, but for social systems.

And yes, in this case the ideas are deeply discredited. Harsher punishments on children does nothing to reduce crime.

>>55314990
i read the whole book, fuckboy.

>>55314978

I would point out that the starship troopers elements of that movie were added in retroactively, and that the movie as a satire about military fascism existed before it became the movie Starship troopers.

I've never raised a dog, so I suppose I'll take your word about that.

As for corporal punishment, I would point out that canning has proven an effective deterrent for crime in south east Asia..

>>55315004
Then how'd they get around if they weren't jumping?

>>55314931
>>55314985
>DAILY REMINDER: THE SOCIETY IN STARSHIP TROOPERS IS A DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC
No, it's an oligarchic republic. Only people which get through several years of service to the state. Everyone else has no voice in government on top of other privileges. The system is just too goddamn easy to abuse and it will be abused by leaders. You can arrange that the kid of someone you don't like does not get the vote. Moreover why bother setting up policies which benefit the Civilians? That's just throwing treasure down the drain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rStL7niR7gs

>>55315022
>As for corporal punishment, I would point out that canning has proven an effective deterrent for crime in south east Asia.
In one city state which is an anomaly in many, many ways. In other places it's done jack and shit.

>>55315022
>>55315054

>SEA law and order
>effective

The country your referring to is borderline police state in which people are constantly monitored and morality is rigorously enforced and they have a Japan tier court system.

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>>55314978
>this doesn't actually work

Of course it does. It worked on my cat.

>proven that punishment does not deter crime
>our current justice system is TOO hard

Did you learn that garbage from your college professors? Heinlein was right. They have a vested interest in disorder.

>>55314883
Almost certainly. That's the point of the setting, it's big enough and wide enough that you could do that.

Separately, I love Heinlein and Starship Troopers to death, but I feel like Dubois is pretty full of shit there. Almost feels like an old man whining about how the younger generation doesn't have any morals because of <new technology> or <latest fad>.

But then again, he wrote books with diametrically opposite creeds, so they can't all have been his personal soapbox.

>>55315067

And?

>>55315073
/pol/ pls go.

>>55315073
Wow anon you sure convinced me with those hot opinions OH WAIT

https://math.dartmouth.edu/~lamperti/my%20DP%20paper,%20current%20edit.htm

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/ethics-in-question/201509/harsh-justice

https://deathpenalty.procon.org/view.answers.php?questionID=000983

http://law.jrank.org/pages/739/Corporal-Punishment-Effectiveness.html

Multiple studies and thesis have been done on this. Belief in corporal punishment is strictly superstitious in nature, it's correlation without causation.

And point of fact it didn't work on your cat because your cat is too fucking stupid to have the same concept of permanency to remember it pissed in the house and that this is somehow what caused your anger, all it knows is piss makes you angry. This MAY lead to it pissing away from you just to avoid trouble, which round-about serves the purpose, but it also fucks with it's perceptions

>>55315123
>Police states are what you have in western colleges

trailerparkfag detected

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>>55315177

That's exactly what I thought. You are an ivory tower college girl.

>it didn't work on your cat
>This MAY lead to it pissing away

Wrong. I already told you it worked. That's the problem with you navel gazing pseudo intellectuals. When your half baked theories contradict reality, then you assume that it is reality that is wrong. You do not understand animal nature. Why would I listen to you when it comes to human nature? Why would anyone listen to you when it comes to remaking civilization in your image?

>>55315262
>in them thar good old days things worked!

Except when your children died of Polio you luddite. You don't understand animal nature either. You're projecting human behavior ad thought onto a stupid animal. It doesn't have the same level of permanency you do. It has the intellect of a toddler at best. It literally just see's you as another fucking cat.

Correlation is not causation. Correlation is not causation. Correlation is not causation. What you THINK worked on your cat is not what worked on your cat, putting a square peg into a round hole with a hammer WORKS but it's not EFFECTIVE, and it's sure as hell not how you want to raise your kids.

>/pol/ thinks that heinlein was a visionary because of his meme tier discussion about society.

Yeah, society will just crumble and the veterans will take over and make everything right.

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>>55315312
>died of Polio you luddite

Blatant strawman. You are pathetic.

>Correlation is not causation. Correlation is not causation. Correlation is not causation.

Now you are chanting like a primitive.

>WORKS but it's not EFFECTIVE

If you call something stupid, but it works, then it’s not stupid. When have you ivory tower psychologists ever been right about anything? When have you ever been effective at anything? There are so many mental cases going to shrinks these days, but I have never, ever heard of a person being cured. Especially serial killer cannibals. You and your psychologists must never be given control over the justice system. Your ilk would give cannibals hug therapy sessions or something equally retarded. I would give them a massive dose of lead.

>>55315262
Odds are your cat will still piss random places, away from view, like between furniture and a wall or something.

>You do not understand animal nature.
The hilarity is killing me.

>I have never heard of a person being cured.
>being this much of a brainlet.
you should take your prescription of lead. Save us all from interacting with you.

>>55315535
>Odds are your cat will still piss random places, away from view, like between furniture and a wall or something.
Which is honestly even worse, since the ammonia in the urine is going to stink like hell and be impossible to get out.

>>55315535
There's never any point in negative reinforcement for a cat, but cats are easy to train via positive reinforcement.

With dogs you can make a case that in some limited cases negative enforcement can be effective at stopping some behaviors, but it leads to other behaviors you don't want so why the fuck bother? It's still easier to go with positive reinforcement only.

>>55315474
>Ivory tower
>Scientific, evidence based analysis of criminal justice

Oh yeah. Why the fuck would you listen to people that know what they are talking about? You should just go with tough talk and superstition based ideas about how things work.

And fuck Jon Snow for taking away that pump handle.

>>55315474
>is given multiple studies on recidivism and the ineffectiveness of corporal punishment
>nuh-uh! Imma shot them bad guys

t. avg amerifat ladies and gentlemen

>>55315645
don't scare him. He might shoot up a school.

>>55315645
In his defence, recidivism after death is near zero in almost all cases

>>55315023
They were obviously rolling around on their thread duh

>>55314518
I'm medically retired, you can't conscript me.

>>55315632
And then it only works on dogs if you catch them exactly while they're doing it, otherwise it just confuses them. And yeah, most times it's better to just positively reinforce the opposite, positive behaviour or just the dog not reacting.

>>55315678

Stupid people have a lot of trouble with this. There's a whole lot of paradoxical stuff with criminal justice.

The worst, harshest, most overpacked and unpleasant prisons should be the ones that make people least likely to commit another crime, right? The hellholes with the highest rate of abuse, rape and murder should be the last place anyone wants to go back to, right?

Yet it turns out they have the worst results. Punishment, how much you make a person suffers, matters far less then what you get them used to and what they have to do to make it though the system.

The worse the prison, the more abusive, the more maladjusted the people come out of it. The worst prisons become machines to produce people that have no life or social skills that work outside of a fucked up prison.

The best prisons, with the lowest rates of prisoner abuse, have the lowest rates of recidivism.

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>>55315645
>>shot them bad guys
>avg amerifat

We are superior to you in every way.

>>55315786
Foreigner who has been to america and britain.
Britbong cops are more polite and helpful than burger ones by far.

>>55315826
That's because the police in the United States investigate crimes, track and apprehend suspects.

In the UK they are only authorized to check TV licenses.

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>>55315826
>Britbong cops are more polite and helpful

Cops aren't suppose to be tourist guides. When muslim terrorists start murdering people, who would you rather have on your side? British bobbies and psychologists? Or American cops with guns?

>tfw cops in my country are helpful, polite, and have guns.
>tfw get to laugh at both Americuks and Britbongs for their fucked up cops.

>>55315872
>>55315883
>cops are supposed to terrorize people asking them for directions.
Of course. Land of the free.
The only thing you freely get is a taser and helpings of lead.

>>55315927

Stop lying using green text.

>>55315938
Amerishart please. Your cops LARP as cowboys instead of helping their communities

>>55315904
>>55315927

>People that have never been to America.

American cops are perfectly nice.

>>55315949
I am living there right now.

>>55315883
>burger extrajudicial killings exceed limey terrorist deaths
>clearly kebab is the real threat here

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Bugs are bad... but we have to purge the Skinny's too!

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Europe has been invaded by millions of muslim savages. Who will win? The jihadists or European psychologists and their studies?

>>55315992
>le 56% face
>>55315977
Skinnies are allies now

>>55315000
>harsher punishments
This is a funny phrase because it fails to distinguish between that same puppy being punished every few minutes that never is able to absorb any reasonable cause for punishment and a quick punishment with a clear association: the first is harsher, but you're right to think the first will probably just instill the pupper with worse tendencies than if they were only given positive conditioning. It's not about being harsh, it's about being firm and knowing what you're trying to convey. And no, the pup doesn't understand what the correlation between his mistakes and his punishments MEANS and has no established right from wrong from them, but it does still undergo conditioning: it can associate it's behavior with the immediate result after repetition and acts to avoid the results.

>>55314978
>>55315177
You're missing the point if you don't think it's about ingraining children with a sense of responsibility towards wider social institutions: that is to say creating the exact opposite of the focus on the individual and their identity as the center point of society around which everything must bend. Whether or not this can be done with spanking and corporal punishment, I'll say that historically it already was. Can it be done without corporal punishment? We have no real evidence on that, since the root of avoiding it is the idolization of the individual. With that process done, adult punishment doesn't enter the equation. Gang violence is indeed a survival strategy, and allowing people to fall into that is essentially failure to bring them into a state of understanding with society as a whole, usually as children. If they fall into it when they're young and aren't brought out, the behaviors aren't likely to go away as an adult. You'll notice that the method is paired with teaching: that's where the real "why" is ingrained. It's not just about punishment: it's about an entirely different perspective on the role of the individual in society.

>>55315029
Except for the only people able to exercise democracy in Starship Troopers are civilians. You don't get that benefit of signing up to the military until after you leave.

>>55314883
I made a home brew Guard regiment that used his system. If normal people joined the PDF they would receive basic human rights and could still live a normal life. Joining the Guard would grant you the planets Federal rights.

>>55316048
no, they are citizens that have completed their terms of service.

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>>55314518
>conscription
>all volunteer army
really crafty b8 OP.

>>55314518
SIR YES SIR! MY NAME IS PRIVATE PARTS SIR!

Guys can we please ignore/pol/ and go back to pretending that we're space soldiers fighting space bugs in space

All these poli-posting and not one about the tabletop rpg.

Role up some characters fuckers and get some campaigns going

>>55316172
Heinlein Starship troopers or verhoven ones?
The former has much better survival chances but the latter has hot coeds

>>55316196
A mix of both. Veterans are like the ones in the books while the new recruits are more among the lines of the first movie

>>55316196
>>55316226
Wait shit I thought you where talking about >>55316058 abort abort abort

>>55315781
IMHO theres a bunch of loaded assumptions being made on both sides of this discussion.

on both sides we are assuming we can peer into the mental landscape of a cat or a dog. And a big problem in the social sciences is that we assume the expiementer is "perfect" when theres some data and statisics attached to a study we take those statistics but don't really look too closely at the methods, or really even try to recreate said experiment.

but as far as your comment is concerned. you make assumptions that all prisons house the same amount of prisons for the same kinds of crime.
however you have federal prisions, state prisons, county jail and mental hospitals as well.

and theres prisons for white collar crime, and blue collar crime. you assume that becuase of this that the onus of being bad is on the prison, and not on the person.

plain and simple you put a bunch of bad people together, shit is gonna happen, and ideas will be exchanged.

>>55315948
they do both shit fuck

>>55316312
yeah random searches without warrants really protect my privacy.

I wish I could say I'm surprised by what an embarrassing shitfest you all managed to turn a fucking STARSHIP TROOPERS THREAD into. This is probably one of the better boards to avoid the tidal wave of "here my insane person political beliefs and if you don't LOVE THEM, I will shit my diaper and rub shit on every wall" that infests most other boards. Try to live up to that reputation that /tg/ is level-headed and more mature that most boards.

This is not how Starship Troopers works. It being a volunteer force is core to the theme and conscription would be a violation of the entire foundation of their government.

How the fuck would you miss this idea.

>>55316397
here's what happens during every starship troopers thread
some underage retard thinks heinlein of all people predicted society's downfall and that we are currently headed towards complete ruin and being beaten at a local school will help society.
Then he tries to aggressively assert his asspulled fact and whines that decades of academic study in this matter is liberal bias and we must save europe from brown people.

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>>55316385
looks like some fag has some loaded assumptions about what "helping the community" actually means

>>55316446
>police enters your house without a warrant
>this isn't big brother shit.
>police is armed with batons so that they can't re-enact the Shootout at OK-Corral when they feel like it.
>muh freedumbs

>>55316397

Why are you so afraid of a simple discussion about democracy? Especially when the OP started the thread with an inherently political topic.

>>55316480
>wants to talk about a goofy setting
>Its an inherently political topic
The movie pretty much removes politics altogether from the story

>>55316493
>The movie pretty much removes politics

Was that a serious statement? The second scene is in politics class. Even Verhoeven himself disagrees with you.

>>55316493
>goofy setting
It's OK, Anon, not everyone needs to be literate. There'll always be a need for burgerflippers.

>>55314883
>having any choice about serving the Imperium in battle

>>55316509
Wasn't it a history class?

>>55316523
>verhoven's movie isn't goofy.
The camp scene was extremely lighthearted. The book had someone hanged for deserting and murdering a loli.
>>55316509
Yeah, and it never comes up again after rico enlists. In the book rico has to study for the class in officer's school and has long monologues about why the system is good for the federation. He just becomes an officer because he is next in command instead of going to officer's school and having to enlist for a long period of time, thus waiving away his right to his franchise.

In the book it shows that rico has grown up and become a man. In the movie rico joins the war because his momma and poppa got squished by a big rock

>>55316058
This is honestly part of my ideal system. Basic conscription and an education in survival and arms training for everyone, i.e. conscription/mandatory military service, of about 6 months to a year, but if you want full citizenship, the right to hold public office and vote for the Chief of State, you need to perform a full tour of duty as a military professional or an extended period of civic duty.

>>55316547
>>>55316547
Its supposed to be a poly sci class.
Verhoeven found the book too dry and gave it to someone to write cliffnotes for it.
He basically made the perfect fascist propaganda pic. Young attractive people find a purpose in life by shooting and grotesque monsters. War is exhilarating and everyone the good guys win.

>>55316456
you should write a cartoon with the type of yellow prose you are using.

you certainly make america seem more animated than it really is.

>>55316567
>you need to actively disenfranchise people to have a perfect system.
Yeah, a system where people don't get to participate in will do wonders for them.

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>>55316553
>movie
Stay pleb.

Also, captcha wtf.

>>55316580
your country is a mess pass. Cops assaulting nurses for following procedure doesn't happen anywhere civilised.

>>55316553
>lighthearted
>Rico gets one of his men killed right in front of his face and gets flogged for it.

>>55316591
I specifically mentioned that the movie removes all the subtleties of politics that Heinlein put in his book. Also
>The book had someone hanged for deserting and murdering a loli.
means that I read the book enough to remember what happened at the boot camp.
Rico and friends get into a brawl with some navy men when they become cap troopers and are on leave.

>>55316596
>book
>the entire scene is grim and dark. Rico reminisces about why the MI is what it is and how they take care of their own while they hang a deserter.
>some guy gets flogged for assaulting zim.

>>55316585
They can still participate, they just can't hold office or vote for the chief of state. Also, you're not actively disenfranchising people, you're rewarding those that have shown a willingness to sacrifice and learned the meaning and value of cooperation in the best interest of the nation.

Nothing is being taken away, the average civilian can still go about their lives in whatever way they feel, and if they want to have the priviliege of holding public office or vote for the chief of state, all they have to do is to register themselves for service and go through largely the same process as anyone else.

>>55316618
Right, this absolutely means the movie is lighthearted, there's even a musical part where they all sing and stuff.

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>>55316553
>it never comes up again after rico enlists

Wrong. It comes up all the time. Rico gives a speech about citizenship at Dizzy's funeral. The entire movie is filled with commercials for an execution, military recruitment, giving children guns, the right of mankind to conquer the galaxy, etc, etc. Saying that the movie doesn't have politics is laughable.

>>55316553
That is because the movie is meant to be a parody of the book. It is actively trying to show how ridiculous the idea of a military republic is as well as laughing at fascist media in general.

>>55316627
>unless it is a disney musical its not lighthearted.

>>55316605
No, you read the summary on wikipedia or something. But if you did read the book, you need to be a special type of dense to think I was ever talking about the movie.

>>55316618
>the entire scene is grim and dark
Wtf. At best, it's bleak, but mostly it's fairly clinical. Unless you spilled coffee and blood over your pages, there's nothing grim or dark about it.

>>55316644
which was my entire point. The movie is lampooning the ideas in heinlein's book

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>>55316593
sounds like you're addicted to yellow prose
how are you liking american news?

>>55316655
That doesn't make it not political. It just has different political ideas and tries to get them across subtly instead of overtly.

>>55316644
Except the book isn't even remotely fascist, and most fascists enjoy the portrayal in the movie. Honestly, if that was the point of the movie, it failed hard on all accounts.

>>55316580
>>55316660
Not the guy you are replying to but what the hell is "yellow prose"?

>>55316654
>you read the summary on wikipedia or something.
sure thing pal. Rico trying to cheat during a drill and being caught by Zim. Rico being given DuBois' letter by Zim. Zim telling Rico what DuBois would think of him cheating. They are all in summaries of the book.

>>55316679
basically fake news.
Clapistani gets triggered when he is reminded that his country is a mess.

>>55316660
>country is a mess.
>"F-fake news"

>>55316593
>Cops assaulting nurses
>assaulting

That was an arrest. Not an assault. Not even the nurse claims assault. Stop lying.

>>55316668
I do agree with you there. Fascists are terrible at reading subtext and the movie was leaning extremely heavily on it. Even many people on the left thought it was trying to promote fascism.

>>55316668
This. All the /pol/tards masturbating to heinlein's redpill forget that rico is a tiny flip, who lives in a multiracial utopia and fights bugs. Even more surprising is that heinlein wrote the books from his experiences in the US armed forces when it was segregated.

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>>55314518
Nigga, I enlisted myself.
>mfw civilian cucks cry about country not bending to their needs when they refuse to help it themselves

>>55316623
And exactly what constitutes a worthy sacrifice and a value of co-operation? A doctor, an economist or scientist would be inherently unable to run for office throughout his life in your ideal setting but a jarhead can spend 5 years and have a more deeper understanding of how the government works because he is a tool that can follow orders?

>>55316716
>gets sent to the testing chambers.

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>>55316737
>this is what civil cucks actually belive
Enjoy being second class citizens

>>55316710
desu it's not revealed until the very end that he's a Filipino. Would you really expect /pol/tard read books until the end?

>>55316716
t.welfare queen

>>55316679

Sensationalist, exaggerated reports. I believe it originated from a newspaper in the XIXth (?) century that was printed on yellow pages.

>>55316750
its ok pal. Once they are done filling you up with estrogen for 2 years, you can come and vote :^)

>>55315262
Solid arguments

>>55315262
>you do not understand animal nature
>I do
>because I am an animal

>>55316644
Wrong. The screenwriter for the movie read two pages of the book, got "space marines fight bugs 'n sheeit", and wrote his script based off that.

>>55316732
>And exactly what constitutes a worthy sacrifice

Heinlein answers that very clearly. You have to risk your life to serve the nation.

>a jarhead can spend 5 years and have a more deeper understanding of how the government works

Yes. Especially more than the shit head economist. Politics is violence. Government is force. That is the entire point of the book.

“To vote is to wield authority, it is the supreme authority from which all other authority derives. Such as mine to make your lives miserable once a day. Force if you will! The franchise is force, naked and raw, the Power of the Rods and the Ax. Whether it is exerted by ten men or by ten billion, political authority is force."

Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers.

>>55315312
>You're projecting human behavior ad thought onto a stupid animal.
Humans are stupid animals, though. I always find the religious nature of anthropocentrism hilarious, because 9 times out of 10, it comes from would-be materialist cultural marxists.

>>55316808
>risk your life
So a doctor or a scientist is inherently less capable of making decisions than some grunt whose only end of state power was supplying the violence?
We aren't talking about heinlein's fantasy world where soldiers suddenly get tired of shit and take over the world ushering in an era of peace. We are talking about the real world where you would specifically place experts at a lower pedestal than practically anyone that completes 2 years of deployment, no matter how worthless that might be to the grand scheme of things.

>>55316826
>
except you anon. you are clearly intelligent. No other person has the capacity to reason except (You)

>>55314518
I have to read this book finally, it's been on my list for too long. Are some versions still censored?

>>55315781
No again, the very worst prisons, the kind where people go in and don't go out again, at least alive, have the lowest recidivism.

>>55316834
>So a doctor or a scientist is inherently less capable of making decisions than some grunt

Yes. Was that suppose to be a hard question? It wasn't.

>experts at a lower pedestal than practically anyone that completes 2 years of deployment, no matter how worthless

It's not worthless. I already told you. Government is force. What is your economist going to do? Raise and army? Storm the military fortresses? Overthrow the veteran government by bolt and blade?

>>55316834
>implying you don't support the systemic violence capacity of the state when you as a doctor patches up a soldier so he can go back to the front line
And don't even get me started on a scientist here

>>55316903
>>55316906
the entire reason the federation arises is an asspull. Soldiers get tired of being pushed around and overthrow government and somehow take over the world and create a unified world government after the west wins against the communists.
Economists and scientists are important to a fully functioning society. A government cannot survive without it's host society. In the grand scheme of things scientists and economists matter more to the wellbeing of society that any individual soldier.

Heinlein's system works as an alternative to conscription. It's entire reason for existing falls apart when you grant the franchise to every adult citizen because at the end of the day the government is more than a bunch of organized force. It needs to deliver governance to people and be responsive to it's mandate.

>>55316967
Economists are important. But they should obviously not be as powerful as they are in today's society.

>>55314518
>no power armor with nukes
What a shitty mobile infantry

>>55316967
>asspull. Soldiers get tired of being pushed around and overthrow government

That's called a military coup. It happens all the time.

>Economists and scientists

Economists are worse than useless. Scientists are useful only as scientists, assuming they aren't frauds that invent new genders.

>government cannot survive without it's host society

No one said otherwise. Nobody is saying that scientists should be exterminated.

>scientists and economists matter more to the wellbeing of society that any individual soldier

Absolutely wrong. If I had hemorrhoids, then I would go to a doctor. If I wanted to know the surface temperature of Venus, then I would ask a scientist. If I wanted to invest my money, then I would punch your economist in the face and look where the billionaires are putting their money. If I wanted someone to fight, maintain and secure the nation, then I would look to the soldiers and veterans. Only they have proven that they are patriots that care about the country.

>>55317015
>Only they have proven that they are patriots that care about the country.
Or that they really needed a solid paycheque and the guy down at the mall promised them they'd get to spend their enlistment sitting on their hands 'guarding' a military hospital in Switzerland.

>>55316303
Maximum security state prisons holding violent offenders with low incidence of inmate abuse have lower recidivism rates then maximum security state prisons holding violent offenders with high rates of inmate abuse.

Controlling for all factors, prisons that are well run and less unpleasant to be in are less likely to create people that will commit other crimes.

It's not really assumptions. It's scientific study of the effectiveness of different methods of correction.

>>55316868
Why would you think that? Because it's wrong.

>>55317015
>military coups happen all the time
>soldiers are the real patriots
Soldiers are good at following orders.
If you are happy to overturn a system that you have sworn to protect you are quite simply a nice bot that follows orders without thinking critically.

Your entire example exists in a system where a soldier is the ultimate form of authority because he provides the violence.
In your ideal setting grunts would be the same status as other civilians while Officers - aka people who have been trained to think critically, listen to input from specialists including economists- would be the ones making decisions. Its called a military government.

Oh, and those billionaires you masturbate to? They listen to actual economists to formulate their plans and invest their money.

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>>55314518
>movie instead of book
>conscription instead of volunteer army
>Starship Trooper instead of Mobile Infantry

>>55317067
It's not wrong. A dead criminal is 0% likely of repeating the crime

>>55317067
>Why would you think that? Because it's wrong.
because thats what his gut tells him.
You can't argue with facts. The entire point is to make outrageous claims that cannot possibly be investigated or verified so that you win imaginary internet points.

>>55317081
yeah, people tend to forget that when heinlein wrote his book the USA had the draft.

>>55317081
Oh, and
>Aryan instead of Philippine

>>55317090
Can't they still use it at moments notice if need arises?

>>55317095
desu flips are the most powerful race in the world.

>>55317103
it would be a pain in the ass. You would need to train a huge body of people on a very short term. Better to have regular soldiers that you already have equipped and trained.

>>55317103
Yes.

>>55317103
>can't they still use it
Yes
>at moment's notice
Hahahahhahahahahahahaha no

>>55317071
>If you are happy to overturn a system that you have sworn to protect you are quite simply a nice bot that follows orders

Wait a minute. Let me get that strait. If a soldier disobeys orders and overthrows the government, then he's a "bot" that follows orders. Does that make sense to you?

>Its called a military government

In Starship Troopers, only veterans are the elected officials. Not the military.

>billionaires you masturbate to?

Way to lower the discussion.

>They listen to actual economists to formulate their plans

How do you know? Google videos of Jim Rodgers debating against CNBC economists. It's funny watching a billionaire run circles around talking heads that are obviously parroting talking points.

>>55317139
A soldier is supposed to fight for his country. When he overthrows his legitimate government as part of a coup he is betraying his oath.

And in starship troopers the federation has to enlist people who volunteer, and they don't always volunteer for military duty. Something that people always tend to forget.

>how do you know?
Because I actually work with people that have degrees in economics who work for those billionaires?
Or do you think all those smart billionaires keep economists on payrolls for shits and giggles, or companies making major financial decisions do so out of the blue?

>>55316834
>what is "skin in the game"

You'd think a scientist would understand that, but we both know you're using scientist as a codeword for sheltered academics, not people getting real-time feedback in the real world.

>>55314518
Starship trooper reporting in sir! When will we go and shoot all the (((bugs)))?

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Japanese anime best design.

>>55315029
It's a meritocratic militaristic republic. Everyone gets the same opportunities.

>>55314978
>Punishment does not deter crime.
Go read some Beccaria.

>>55318148
Loved the design in the anime, hated the fucking anime

>>55317186
All threats, foreign and domestic.
ALL THREATS FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC
FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC.
A soldier does not pledge his life to a person, but an ideal. A government leader who rules unjustly and seeks to covet power is not the commander in chief. Usurping the power of the greatest country has seen to that! A solider who does battle with a man who calls himself dictator is not a traitor, he is a patriot! It is his civic duty, he MUST stand against tyranny. You must know your enemy as you know yourself! Tsun tsp said that! And I think he knows a little bit more about war than you do, pal!

>>55315949
Read about asset forfeiture.

>>55316834
In the book, Juan's bestie enlisted and got a post as a scientist 'cause he was a real bright guy.

Being a boot or test subject isn't the only method of service. Of course the government needs doctors, researchers, scientists, etc. (And that's in real life too- I have an uncle who was offered a colonel's commission just because he happened to be a neurosurgeon).

To top it off, Juan's bestie, whose name I can't remember, dies before Juan does because the bugs wax the secret government base he's working on.

But hey, don't let any details get in the way of all your dickwaving.

>>55315645
Well, technically, if you shot them dead, they won't be recidivism...

>>55314537
No fascist state would ever be so foolish as to allow women to march to war except in times of absolute desperation. Not only is there literally no reason to do so, but it is also a total violation of the entire idea of a Fascist nation, which places the family as the absolute smallest unit of society, in which the man fights/struggles/labors and the woman tends.

It is only over-socialized western countries, who view war as a game with totally interchangeable pieces, or the totally desperate, whose choices are severe population reduction or total extinction, who consider it a realistic possibility to send women to war. This is biological. Women are the means by which the next generation are produced. Every man who dies is, to be frank, merely a drone who can be replaced and whose participation is not necessary to impregnate the available stock of women. Each woman who dies is a hard reduction on the total possible number of children for the next generation.

A society that employs its women in war is inferior to one that does not, regardless of context. The only possible result is the loss of women, and the loss of women is a loss of future productivity. This can only occur in societies who value future productivity LESS than they value a shallow display of their morals, or who have no other choice whatsoever, both of which are inferior to strong societies.

>>55317095
>Argentinians
>white
Pick one~

>>55319782
>A society that employs its women in war is inferior to one that does not, regardless of context.
Unless you're talking about who won.

>>55316530
You have choices on many Imperium plants. Choosing a glorious life of being working to death in a factory is a fine option for many.

>>55318148
Beccaria's also thought that excessive punishment doesn't work, and Heinlein passage implies that a lot more things are suitable punishments then I would agree.

>>55315949
LOL
American cops are assholes. Their job is to write tickets, hassle people over bullshit, abuse low-level offenders, and occasionally break up fights. Nice people don't become cops in America. Only people who want to be jerks for a living

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>>55315073
Punishment doesn't deter crime when the criminals are black.

>>55322231
Crime arises mainly from either mental illness, which is not solved by punishment, or poverty, which is also not solved by punishment.

Prisons should not be hellholes, because that environment makes people worse. And most criminals are returned to society, not locked away forever.

>>55322489
I happen to agree that the other guy is a chucklefuck, but how would you categorize, say, the Equifax breach, or revelation that company execs delayed announcing the breach to the public so that they could buy a bunch of stock at discount and sell it before the announcement tanked their value?

Execs are presumably not impoverished, especially if they have the capital to make a few million inside-trading.

>>55323075
That doesn't concern these people, they don't go to prison.

>>55323475
...touché.

>>55314518

>At last we have finally become Starship Troopers

Jesus Christ Verhoeven, really?

>>55322489
>either mental illness
>or poverty

Pure bullshit. Robbers, rapists and murderers are not Jean Valjeans, stealing bread for their families. Cops aren't all Inspector Javerts. Come out of your stupid leftist fantasy.

Since the mods hate it when I post pictures of news articles, I will tell you to imagine a mob of blacks looting a weave store in Ferguson.

>>55322202
The thing is, there really is no standard for police in the US, so the culture difference between a cop in NYC is different from LA, let alone small bumfuck towns. Where I am, if you're nice to cops, they'll be nice back to you, even if they do have to write you a ticket.

>>55322231
>Punishment doesn't deter crime when the criminals are black

I disagree. Force is the only language criminals understand. Especially blacks.

Imagine a picture of Korean store owners shooting black gangs during the LA riots.

>>55324035
And there's also the fact that, they still have a choice to break the law or not. And petty theft almost always never goes to food. It's always for drugs, or luxury items.

I don't believe the poor should be left out to dry on principle, and should have to opportunity to be able to pull themselves out, but I really hate this "oh you poor thing" that these people cry crocodile tears over. Because any solution they propose is no skin off their bones, but comes from the hard work and sweat of other people.

My folks worked hard, and gave years of their life to military service (my mom didn't retire until I was in middle school, and that was so she could teach) to give me and my sister a better life, and I at least not want to squander it or have it be taken away by people who will squander it anyways.

>>55324131
>Because any solution they propose is no skin off their bones, but comes from the hard work and sweat of other people.
Do you think that taxes are waived on crocodile-tear leftists or something? Are they somehow managing to vote for measures they won't have to pay for?

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Starship Troopers is utopian crap written by a man who rode out the Vietnam War behind a desk. People should be reading The Forever War, written by a combat engineer and truly details the isolation felt by returning vets and the ultimate futility of war.

That said, Verhoeven mangled the book on purpose so fuck him.

>>55324291
He served in the Navy from 1929-34 and reached lieutenant.
So complaining that he rode out the Vietnam War behind a desk is kind of ?????

>>55319782
>A society that employs its women in war is inferior to one that does not, regardless of context.

You say that but last I checked the Soviets shitstomped the Nazis and they threw women into the trenches.

It's fine to use women in your army when your nation is so massively populated that you can just throw lives into the meat grinder and it means nothing. 30 million Soviets dead and all it did was slow them down. I'm not even a tankie but you can't deny the power of overwhelmingly superior numbers. As Edward Longshanks put it when told than an archery barrage will hit his own troops.

>Yes. But we'll hit theirs as well. We have reserves. Attack!

>>55324380
I prefer the Napoleon quote, "You cannot stop me, I spend 30000 men a month."

>>55324087
Self defense isn't punishment, at least in any way the justice system could apply it. All the system can do is threaten long term consequences, which don't work on people who aren't capable of long term planning.

>>55314978

Actually the research on crime and punishment is a bit skewed on that.
Our justice system does not guarantee a person will be punished, and it could be several years before the punishment is enacted. And the punishment, as the book rightly points out, simple incarceration.

Punishment as a system of behaviour control has been studied, mostly in pavlovian terms. The elements required are that punishment follows the action closely, and that it is virtually guaranteed to happen every time that the action occurs. Without those two elements, punishment appears random. You can also increase effectiveness of punishment by increasing its salience. Incarceration has little salience, since its stretched over a long period with little direct stimulus related to the event that triggered it.

So in a way you're right. The way we carry out punishment in our legal system does not work, but that isn't a damning of punishment as a system, simply that our execution does not satisfy the requirements.

I'd also point out that parenting strategies in which one does not use punishment at all have some of the worst overall outcomes for children. Best outcomes come from whats called "authoritative." Effectively, punishment occurs, but is strictly used to control poor behaviour, and the punishment's relation to the beahviour is carefully explained, and then the punishment is over and the parent and child can go back to being normal and loving. This is contrasted with "authoritarian" parenting, with an overuse of punishment, with little or no explanation.

t- Psychology graduate student with a focus on Behavioural psychology. Who gets supremely pissed off about social sciences claiming they know what the fuck their talking about.

I think part of the problem is people forget or conflate whether the purpose of a justice system is to protect the innocent, or punish the guilty.

>>55322489
Clearly, we need to execute both the mentally ill and the poor.

>>55324642
It depends on whether or not you believe in victor's justice

>>55319782
But this assumes you need lots of dudes to be successful. In a world that focuses more and more on machines for combat and labour having an excess of meat bodies is a disadvantage. They need food, homes and work. A heavily mechanised society only needs enough people to operate the machines and fill the gaps where the machines are incapable of reaching. Any extra people will be left without work and ether become a burden on the state or left to die. Ether way it leads to dissatisfaction and dissent.

Not to mention that in a world with advanced systems of travel and limited habitable territory there is the question of where to put all your people. Can a nation sustain constant expansion against it's neighbours in world of global alliances and WMDs? Or more importantly can your nation sustain that while still being a place worth living?

Like all animals we have a biology designed for a specific environment. Over time we have changed that environment. It's entirely possible that what has been natural to us for thousands of years is not the most optimal design for a technological world. That our instincts and intuitions are limited and those those of us that refuse to move beyond our base natures will ultimately be left behind.

>>55324642

Ideally it serves both purposes.

A justice system that doesn't protect the innocent is a failure. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to prevent crime, rather than deal with its consequences. A functioning justice system should do what it can to protect people from random crime, while knowing it will never catch every criminal before the act. It is then its responsibility to ensure that it does not occur again.

On the other side, punishment of the guilty is a societal necessity. It is the evidence that the justice system is doing its job, to ensure that a criminal does not repeatedly offend. If the people do not believe that justice system is working, then they will take justice into their own hands, which will result in chaos. We already see it with vigilante justice, and especially in communities that do not trust the police, a complete disregard for law in general. Punishment is not for the offender, it is for the society.

>>55324599
It's easier for them to complain about their feels and pretend that sociology is an empirical study when almost no data they provide is based on observed trends.

>>55324291
>utopian crap

Wrong. The great thing about Heinlein was that he didn't believe in utopias. There will always be war and there will always be crime.

>a man who rode out the Vietnam War behind a desk

Are you fucking retarded? He was a veteran and an old man by then.

>>55324806
Disagree.

Punishing the guilty is the best system we have now, but it is not actually the purpose; protecting the innocent (through discouraging crime) is the purpose. If better result can be achieved without punishing the guilty, go for it.

A lot of people here preach rehabilitation. Let's put that to the test. If a dozen psychologists and their so called studies declared a serial killer cannibal to be cured, would you want him living next door to you? Yes or no?

>>55324380
The Soviets were a desperate society, and by the end of the war, the Germans were also sending women to fight.

So, proof of my point. They are culturally and socially inferior to societies that did not need to do that. "Cultural Inferiority" may actually be the single best term to describe the Soviet Union as a whole, in fact. There was never a single time, ever, in the entire history of the "country" in which it was not culturally inferior to all of its rivals.

>>55324924
>hey answer my loaded question because I don't believe in anything I can't see directly in front of me

no thanks

>>55324975

You coward.

>>55324829

In some ways they aren't wrong. Lowering poverty will lower crime immediately. Poverty has a ridiculous correlation with crime, over 60% depending on the study.

But sociology is not empirical. They can show trends, but they can't have an accurate depiction of the "why"s. And any change they propose will be hindered by that lack. They also suffer from studying a complicated system, and only being able to make conclusions based on that system.
Psychology suffers from similar problems, but most of us at least try to address it. I've seen sociologists virtually revel in it, making little if any effort to control variables, and instead punching out self-selected survey after self-selected survey and pretending it means anything to anyone.

>>55324958
>They are culturally and socially inferior to societies that did not need to do that.

Yeah the Germans threw young boys and old men into the meat grinder when all the fighting age men were dead instead. So much better.

>>55324924
In an ideal world psychologists would be locked up as well.

>>55324924
No, I wouldn't. But it would also be a loss for society if my precious feels got in the way of a treatment that did actually work. The betterment of humanity has always involved personal sacrifice.

>>55324924
The issue with capital punishment for me isn't the moral implications, it's that 4% of the time we execute the wrong guy.

>>55314774
There were parts of the book talking about why they didn't conscript.

>>55325051
Just so long as it's someone else's personal sacrifice.

>>55325068

Execute everyone, problem solved. All crimes are punished by death.

>>55325112
Having all crimes carry the death penalty kinda encourages higher tier crime. If you're gonna be decapitated for stealing an apple, might as well kill a few people while you're at it. Not like they can kill you worse.

>>55325112
This a good shortcut to a revolution.

>>55325051
>No, I wouldn't

Thank you for being honest and for proving Heinlein correct. You have to have skin in the game to actually care about your country.

>But it would also be a loss for society

It will be a great benefit to society. You are finally thinking about your fellow citizens, instead of just virtue signaling. When people hold themselves separate and above other people, that's when you get arrogant navel gazers. Like the spoiled actresses of Hollywood preaching open borders. That's easy when you live in walled off mansions and gated communities. When you know that you will suffer the consequences of your own political beliefs, then you start being more careful.

>>55325199
Or the creation of an incredibly vindictive populace

>>55324924

A dozen? Sure.

Why is it that Scandinavian countries that aren't dystopian police state shitholes run by the prison industrial complex have such low crime and even lower recidivism rates than America, a country that doesn't know the meaning of the word "society" and suffers immensely for it

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>>55325380

>>55325408

Sweden also ranks "rape" much more liberally than every country on earth

>>55325328
You'll get a collapsing government long before that. When all crimes are treated equally, and when punishments are arbitrarily high, you'll have shit like
>>55325163
where criminal go out of their way to not leave witnesses, you'll have people refusing to report crime or testify against perps because doing so would be tantamount to killing someone over petty bullshit, state-sanctioned killing becomes perceived as murder, and then it's just a matter of time before the population begins to organize a change in leadership. And it WILL be a popular movement. I mean, would you sit at home with an ideological dildo up your ass if your kid could be executed for driving home after having a beer with his friends?

>>55325298
> When you know that you will suffer the consequences of your own political beliefs, then you start being more careful.
...And because human beings instinctively become selfish and xenophobic when threatened, this will in no way lead to a society of cockroaches.

>>55325433

What about grenade attacks? Do they also have a more liberal definition of those?
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-sweden-grenades/in-a-port-city-grenade-attacks-shatter-swedish-sense-of-safety-idUKKCN0QE09F20150809

>>55325655

A-Are you legitimately advocating for policy makers to be divorced from the consequences of their policies?

>>55325658
Grenades are easier to smuggle than guns.

>>55325697
Yes, the shape is easier to hide in your ass.

>>55325718
It's pretty much the opposite. You just seem to have fixation about stuffing objects to your butt.

>>55325751
Guns are easier to hide in your ass?
Tell me about your experiences. I assumed the round shape of a grenade would make it easier than the L shape of a pistol.

>>55325697

Still crime though. The original part of this discussion was that "scandinavian countries... have such lower crime rates"
Smuggling, and killing people with grenades is usually considered crime. I've even heard Sweden compared to mexico on that front, though the only source I could find easily was Breitbart. Figured that would just be dismissed altogether.

prisons should not exist
this way the prisoners only cause problems aside from being criminals
every crime worse than stealing should be punished with "eye for eye" i mean you kill you die

>>55325780
What about >>55323075 or drug users that don't hurt anyone?

>>55325655
>when threatened

Actually if you take a look at most of the world, that is everything except what's left of western civilisation, you'll find that's people's default mode of operation.

We in the west only act against our instincts because we've been conditioned for the first two decades of our lives by the media-education complex to believe in the cult of universal humanism.

It would be more accurate to say that people come to their senses when they get slapped hard enough.

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>>55319782
you're missing the point

>>55325818
drug users are not criminals i mean unless they are stealing or killing, drug users should be treated.

>>55325780
Most people don't think they will get caught, so tough punishments don't really deter crime but appease the lunching mentality we inherited from our primate ancestor.

Also you can pretty much never be 100% sure about a judgment, prison sentences are not permanent. Would you rather go to jail or be executed for a murder you didn't commit, but the evidence points you as the most likely criminal?

>>55325851
You have to be over 18 to post on this site, kiddo.

>>55325769
>Figured that would just be dismissed altogether.

Yeah, but the kind of people who dismiss Breitbart are Guardian readers, so who gives a fuck what they think?

>>55325870
>dude i think i will kill this fag
>maybe not if i am caught i will be executed
yes it does
fear is the best control measure for monkeys

>>55325904
Nice memes :DDD

>>55325937
Yeah, on the 90% of people who don't commit crimes anyway.

Don't you have some Koran to read, Al-Anon?

>>55325988
and the ones who commit crimes will die
your point?
the criminal population will get smaller anyway and eventually fade.

>>55326030
Ah yes, all we need to do is purge the gene pool of all those nasty CRIMINAL GENES, poor breeding is the only reason anyone ever ends up in a life of crime

>>55326088
i never said nothing about genes
the more ppl die doing crimes the less ppl doing crimes will be alive to commit crimes
are you autist?

>>55326088
Well, if we stop poor people from breeding it would lower the poverty rate.

Suppose we end up with awesome VR tech. Cheap, perfected all that jazz.

Would forcing criminals into 'solitary' VR simulations where they can do whatever the fuck they want, in VR, but aren't allowed out, be a 'better' way of treatment? No punishment, they don't even have to change, but everyone who wants a life safely interacting with real other people are allowed to?

>>55314965
Paratroopers move with parachutes. What do they need boots for? You're retarded. They used them for tactical redeployment and to insert into a battle, they didn't have fucking wheels, and they didn't fly 100% of the time like a helicopter. They walked. On their legs. Like people.

>>55321966
Honestly, I would rather be brutally whipped once than have to go to prison for a few years. You recover from the whipping within a few weeks, once you've been to prison, your career and basically your life is over. Our system is far more excessive than the on in Troopers.

>>55325044
That's because they went into that mentioned absolute state of absolute desperation as a result of the fact that they were logistically and industrially inferior. That said, >>55325837 is on the money about it being irrelevant to the point of the story. In reality Motherhood would probably just be folded in as qualified Service, but the point is that requirement of service establishes a whole different kind of society with it's own implications.

>>55324718
Families having lots of kids doesn't cause overpopulation: low low income families do. Families in industrialized societies don't really overproduce children: most war then upsets that balance and so promoting over-replacement rate is better for most instances. Also giving up numerical advantages for the sake of the rest of the planet sounds like a loosing strategy. Since when is a fascist going to forget about the importance of also acquiring, that familiar phrase, living space for those kids and expanding industry with those extra resources? Having a lot of dudes and space to use them makes you a lot more successful and a lot less vulnerable.

>>55325681
Policy makers will always think of themselves first, because they're human. If you put them in the fire with the rest of us, they will abuse their authority to get out, and nothing will have been accomplished in the end other than the society being worse. Regardless of everything else an upper class has to exist so that the monkeys on the top can make ugly decisions without being hampered by their self-preservation instincts.

>>55325826
>shit people are cockroaches
>therefore we should aspire to be cockroaches too and glorify cockroachism

>>55326962
Actually they mainly jumped.

>>55327279
If taking a few lashings removed it from your record and jail time, maybe it would be better for some people. But I would also say a lot of the sentences given for nonviolent crimes are excessive as is.

>>55324924
The first thing to understand is that you will never be cured.

There's no fixing most people. Nobody can change your nature. All that can be done is attempt to teach you to manage your sickness as well as possible.

The question will never be if you are cured. You won't be.

The question is can you be safely released from an institution.

>>55327300
Oh yeah, more people are always better. That's why India and Bangladesh dominate the world while the United States languishes.

>>55327737
Like I said in my post, it's about also acquiring places for them to live and resources for them to use effectively, not just pumping out kids. It's about an expansion in the totality of the nation, not in one particular area. Read nigga, read.

>>55327631
>But I would also say a lot of the sentences given for nonviolent crimes are excessive as is.
At least lashings are cheap and there's less of a perverse incentive to incarcerated for profit. Honestly, it's far more civilized than prison and you don't really have any business looking down your nose at it, chauvinist.

>>55328032
Historically attempting imperialistic expansion fails hard in the modern world.

>>55328059
>Utterly pointless punishment

I think everyone that isn't retarded looks down their nose at it.

>>55327703
>The question will never be if you are cured. You won't be.
>The question is can you be safely released from an institution.

Let me think about that for a nanosecond. No. Fuck no. Execute them.

>>55327737
Not him but the US is the one of the only major industrialized countries that isn't having a birthrate problem.

>>55328296
Yeah, I guess this fictional hypothetical serial killer that somehow had no criminal conviction should not be released from a medical facility.

>>55328119
That's not accounting for more subtle forms of imperialistic expansion. Seizing distant resources in the guise of peace keeping, or limited chunks of land from countries immediately adjacent and increasingly isolated politically by media narratives isn't hard. It's super easy if they find themselves in a crisis and it's super easy to create a crisis. You have to play the game until you're able to subvert it. There's nothing inherently different about imperialism in the modern world except that the time and ground scale has changed to accommodate the range of fast communication and travel, and that mass media can now swiftly target the confidence and morale of forces. People don't like imperialism, but by controlling the narrative the people get, it's easy to justify. The tools have changed the scale, but the methods are intact, despite the common public disdain for them. When we do it, it's liberating and peace keeping, when they do it it's oppressive expansionism, just like when it's our guys they're freedom fighters and when it's not they're terrorists or oppressors. Of course nobody is going to call what they do imperialism when they don't fail.

>>55316764
I've never seen yellow journalism called yellow prose, but what do I know.

>>55315645
While I don't deny that this man is a fucking retard, I would not mind a system more in this vein, if only because it is so much more cost efficient. Why should my tax dollars pay for some rapist or murderers room and board 25+ years? Just kill them and burn the body.

>>55315883
> rolled sleeves
YOU LACK DISCIPLINE

>>55315949
Yeah.
If you are polite to them, they are polite to you .
It also might help to be white. Like, a lot.

>>55314683
They do nuke the bugs. Frequently. MI standard loadout includes a number of smallish nuclear devices.

>>55314745
>walking tanks
FLYING TANKS, they're Mobile Infantry for a reason.

>>55326962
Jump packs are boots to MI. Drop pods are parachutes.

>>55329221
Flight is pretty much suicidal in the face of armed resistance in the setting. Anything airborne that isn't surrounded by jammers and chaff is target practice. MI suits rely on bounding, NOE rocket assisted jumps to cover ground quickly. That isn't to say a marauder suit can't walk. Rico even does some walking when paroling for bugs and woolgathering on if psionic troops that map bug tunnels are just good at hearing them dig.

Among the weapons available is atomic warhead rockets.They aren't employed in combat in the book but Rico gets in trouble for firing a simulated one without double checking the clear area.

Not every attack by the MI is like the Skinny raid, a drop pod insertion, very fast attack then return to a recall beacon before an organized response can catch them.

>>55329385
didn't Rico send one at max range towards some big building during the Skinny raid?

>>55329645
IIRC it's unclear, but seems like he hits a target with thermobaric or other high power weapons at long range to sow confusion and intimidate locals, with the target picked for minimal casualties and high impact. The Skinny raid was deliberately a minimal-force operation intended to underscore MI's ability to precisely kill high value targets.

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>>55316011
Colonel T'Phai was bro tier.

>>55329745
I unironiclly really liked that show.

>>55329777
There was something ironically bad about it?
Yea, the animation was bleh even in it's time, but it's still the best representation of a military unit and the camaraderie that goes on in it I've seen in a cartoon, on top of having great VA and script.
It takes liberties with the novel, but manages to blend the movie and the novel ideals well.

>>55329810
I've reached the point in people being sarcastic and ironic that I feel the need to make sure to tell people when I'm being sincere and direct.

>>55314518
I spent a month in the military and it was the comfiest job I ever had.
You're always safe and well fed and whatever bad happens, you're surrounded by people you can rely upon.

>>55329878
People being dumb shouldn't be a reason to change your ways, anon.
I still enjoy listening to the DVD commentary because the people behind honestly loved working on it. I think Razak's VA commentated on the 3rd season about why they didn't kill him off then.

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>>55322231
>>55324087
Can't you /pol/tard KKK shitheads just do the world a favor and die horribly of cancer already? I can't wait until people finally have enough and just start shooting you "people" down in the street and firebombing whatever sewers you like to hide out in.

>>55332355
Are you angry about them being angry about black crime? Because black crime fucking sucks. As it lead to a bunch of blacks dying everyday, but at least you didn't offend them!

>>55315474
>wasting 10 bullets instead of just a headshot, or even a good smash to the head with a maze

I never understood this.

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>>55314752
Fucking 40kfags I tell you what.
Being human doesn't make you jack shit. Any asslicking, shitstomping, drooling motherfucker can be part of humanity, that doesn't make them any more important than any other oxygen inhaling, carbon-based son of a bitch.
What makes you important is effort.
You choose to be a Trooper. You choose to put your life on your life for your comrades and the Federation. Then you rise above humanity and become a citizen, something better than the teeming, wretched masses of mankind.
The stars aren't your birthright. They're a prize to be won by the strong.

>>55315883
the average european nation police usually is composed by
>civilian branch, usually armed with a handgun and nothing else
>military gendarms, you need to serve in the army to be one of them, and they are armed with heavier stuff like smg's and assault rifles
>army with Apcs, machine guns and Mbt's parked in squares and train stations
>secret services death squads, more onto making people disappear or shooting them in the back of the head
i think its a bad thing to have all of that in a single body

>>55332447
It's a psychological thing. With ten bullets, the burden of execution is divided among ten people rather than it falling on a single individual.

In essence, it avoids having one single boogeyman executioner and it allows the executioners to absolve themselves of guilt.

>>55324345
Oh so he rode out WW2 behind a desk as well?

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>>55332447
As I understood it, only some of the weapons were loaded with real bullets, the rest had blanks.

Like the other anon said it was a guilt thing.

There's also some symbolism in having ten guys do it, unity of the ten vs the singular nature of the guy getting killed.

You can read more here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Execution_by_firing_squad

>>55315262
you seemingly get all your scientific data out of anecdotal evidence and jpgs floating around the internet, yet you go around calling other people pseudo-intellectuals

allow me to rofl

>>55324291
>Starship Troopers
>Utopian

I beg you pardon my nigger ?

>>55315474
>>Blatant strawman. You are pathetic.

that's not what a strawman is, you fucking retard

lmao

this guy is trying so hard to pretend smart

>>55319782
Well I know the movie is very different from the book, in the book the military is literally not allowed to turn anyone away from military service, they just find a place to stick you with your qualifications. Reason being that only people who have served get franchised.

>>55314518
Man, this thread is a shitshow. Y'all niggas so off the bounce. You need to put your snoopers on.

>>55332503
And Britain's anti-terrorist hit squad is a unit of ridiculously tough and extremely well trained special forces men.

I'm not entirely sure how that happened.

>>55314745
https://youtu.be/XIZty-Eol4s

Also the anime

>>55321966
Beccaria thought that punishment ought to be predictible, proportionate, constant, and immediate; Heinlein isn't far in his views.

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>>55332355
Heatily agreed, these law and order loving bootlicking subhumans need to die a horrible, horrible death.

Also this post is completely serious.

>>55337278
>"law and order"
>but only for other people

if you don't see the hypocrisy of those types of idiots you are one yourself

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>>55337295
I don't even understand your post so either I'm the idiot or you are. Your sentence structure is atrocious. Yes, "law and order" applies to other people. The state shoots and imprisons anyone who doesn't obey. I don't see any hypocrisy in my post. Just because you cannot imagine somebody living a different way than you or having different values than you does not make them a hypocrite, it only makes them not you. The human brain is a very powerful machine, values and ideals are a very weak survival mechanism that gets twisted the moment it becomes inconvenient, and I don't see anything wrong with that. Most people have a hierarchy of loyalties, people may have a higher loyalty to their job than their family, or their family may be more important than their job. Not exclusively going to visit their family or exclusively going to their job doesn't make them a hypocrite. All your post says is there are some vague group of idiots somewhere and that I should call them idiots or else I am one. I'm going to rule you as the idiot because your sentences are not complete stand-alone thoughts, which is the definition of a sentence, and that you can't convey whatever message you're trying to convey to me in one post. Additionally, you are a brainlet for making one sentence posts in the first place. I probably put more deep thought into this post than you've applied to anything in the past three days.
Have a good day, fag.

>>55329696
IIRC Rico fired three nukes during the skinny raid. One at what he was pretty sure was a space port, one at a building that might have been a palace or temple and another at what appeared to be a water treatment plant.

>>55315262

You responded to actual science with a shitty anecdote and an idiotic ramble.

You're /pol/, alright.

>>55335501
Yeah, if you really want to serve, they'll find something for you to do. Even if you can't make it through basic, you can refuse the medical discharge and they'll keep you on as say, a ship cook. But yeah they will find something for you to do if you really want to be a citizen.

>>55329777
>I unironiclly really liked that show.
You better, shit was good.

>>55316068
You know they deny citizenship rights and reproductive rights unless you have a certain IQ score or serve a tour of duty.

Natural selection at it's best.

>>55332355

Why did you post a picture of jews killed by allied bombing?

>>55332447
>>wasting 10 bullets

I can tell that you are not a gun owner. Bullets are cheap. Ten bullets are nothing compared to the number you and the boys shoot in one afternoon at the range.

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>>55332355

>>55340645
>actual science

Don't make me laugh. Psychology isn't a science. Making up 49 new genders doesn't make you a scientist.

>>55316061
You're wrong and >>55316048 is correct. In Starship Troopers you only get the citizenship afterward. This was emphasized in the shower scene when they talked about what they were going to do once they get citizenship. Starship Troopers is a republic but not an oligarchy. All people have right to citizenship and the citizens control the country, the country is not controlled by a small group of people.

>>55329745
Huh... not at all what I thought the skinnies would look like.

>>55333102
>everyone in the world gets together magically.

>>55332651
Yep. Which would at least be a little more on-point criticism.
He was clearly an able to get promoted in a peacetime navy (no mean feat, unless it's being rapidly expanded- which the Washington Naval Treaty meant the opposite of-) and was drummed out for reasons beyond his control.

But criticizing him for sitting out the vietnam war (when he was already established as a writer) is pretty bizarre.

>>55324958
But you're missing several points.

A), the Soviet Union beat the bloody pants off le millenial reich. They threw women into combat much earlier than the late war (though admittedly, were desperate throughout the whole thing). They did not withdraw them at any point.

B) There are plenty of roles other than front line grunt. The British used women for codecracking and signals intelligence processing, and they killed more men than the Enola Gay- all without firing a shot themselves. The US used women in manufacturing throughout the second world war (and the first!). Meanwhile, Germany never allowed women into factories even when the ruskies were marching through Prussia. One of the previously mentioned lost.

C) Plenty of roles are entirely military but le bodystrength meme doesn't really matter. as an unrelated note, the Soviet Union, during said desperation, did some research on the topic and came to the tentative conclusion that men had higher exertion levels in bursts, but women were better at sustained endurance- they though women made better machinegunners, for instance.

>>55337881
Remember, Heinlein was of the generation that marched soldiers through nuke blast sites just to see what effects it had on them.