AD&D Thread

How does everyone feel about power scaling in ADnD?

My party recently attracted followers, and holy shit are these guys pure fodder.

-The bard attracted 48 level 0 soldiers

-The thief/cleric attracted 50 level 0 fighters, and 11 followers ranging from level 2-8 (all thieves or fighter thieves)

-The fighter attracted 60 level 0 fighters, 30 level 1 fighters, a level 3 fighter, and a level 6 fighter

The level 2+ guys are nice to have, but the level 0 fighters are just fucking trash. I know DnD is supposed to be about small bands of powerful heroes, but the fact that a seasoned soldier is a level 0 fighter just seems pathetic.

>>55295526
>How does everyone feel about power scaling in ADnD?

This depends. Do you mean in regards to how AD&D was meant to be played, or how most people look at the PnP hobby now? As if the latter...

The first 1-3 levels heavily favor Fighters* and Clerics*. Wizards are squishy as all hell (and unless an... Abjurer, I believe it was, need to waste their one spell / day to be marginally less squishy), if very good at turning one encounter into a slaughter for the party if they don't mind a jaw of paper mache. Thieves and Bards meanwhile were still fairly squishy, but if you needed a face or skill monkey at least had some use outside a once / day wad. But back to the first point: Fighters and Clerics are better for prolonged engagements. That said, at 1-3 levels you aren't supposed to be having these unless it's either a rolling series of ambushes or something went wrong.

*Fighters and Clerics in this case refers to "Fighters, Rangers, Paladins" and "Clerics, Druids" respectively, since at this time they were more sub-types of the former than unique classes all on their own.

Continuing from this and being less verbose, you get the closest to a "modern" PnP feel from 4th through 6th or 8th level. A lot of classes distinct features begin to show, you get to enjoy the average "adventuring" day without worrying about a single lucky arrow wiping out half your Fighter's HP pool, and the classes are relatively close enough in balance that no one PC is going to dominate the scene or keep the others from having fun. After 8th level things break down in minutia and caster supremacy and lots of spreadsheets.

... Assuming, again, you're looking at AD&D from a "modern" PnP perspective.

>>55295325
these edition seemed more dice orientated and used a lot of charts.

which was fantastic.

raised on ad&d 2nd ed.
the classes felt unique, not so much balanced, just unique.

i have no idea how i ever leveled as a mage with no specialization.

>>55296087
(Cont'd)

AD&D was very much meant to be played a different way which is evident in the fact that many people who look back on it are confused by the whole "Why do I have all these Level 0 followers and a henchman limit in Charisma" thing, or how many of the campaign boxes don't thrust you into a fight against proper opponents until at least 2-3 hooks in.

I've had people talk to me about how AD&D is horrendously unbalanced against non-Casters at the 15th or even 10th level range, but when asking them to go into how they cite things that became commonplace in 3.5 or later: "Well if the Wizard has this magic item" (In an edition wherein magic items can't just be bought in any major city by slapping down a lump of plat on a table and - if the DM really wants to delay you - a Gather Information Check), or "One-on-one just compare what a Fighter and Cleric can do" (when even a 10th level fighter is highly unlikely to go anywhere by their self) or so-on.

>>55295526
It's not that they're that bad, it's that you're that powerful. Remember, level 5 is peak realistic human. Use them for spying, keeping watch, and widely spread out with bows. Or trap-detection fodder, which was a common tactic in Gygax's day.

>>55295526
By my count your PCs have 201 followers.

How are they providing enough food and water for an entire mobile village?

>>55296221
I assume some of them staff the PC's castle, tower, or fortified manor while they're away. A typical warband is 30 to 50 people, 200+ is for royals or during full, real war.

The party does own feudal properties, right OP? At least a fortified manor or tower and some shares in urban businesses to trickle in rumors from the thieves guild?

File: Town Coloured.jpg (1MB, 2145x1652px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2145x1652px

>>55296221
>>55296359

Yes, we have a small city that has been under construction since we hit level ~6. All soldiers are staffing the city are being paid by the earnings we make adventuring (we having a resting balance of about 1.6 million GP). Our thief maintains a thieves guild and our adventuring earnings are more than enough to support 200 soldiers. I just wish we could buy them a few levels.

>pic related is our town (its a WIP)

File: Town.jpg (1MB, 2145x1652px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 2145x1652px

>>55296421
i'm an idiot, this is the more up-to-date town

>>55295526
I wonder if the idea was to be able to transition your crew into C.H.A.I.N.M.A.I.L. as a battle unit for mass combat and sieges of your stronghold.

>>55295526

I've heard the game's general description go as "You're powerful, but can still die", and I think it rings true. In terms of progression, AD&D 2e is my favorite--even with followers, you're not indestructible, a lack of skill points prevents improbable roll-offs, and the window where martials and casters overlap is pretty large for D&D.

Plus, in terms of power with followers etc. the DM can just downplay their addition and keep the scale small. It's no love lost if you think it feels "off".

>>55296731
We are playing "The Rod of Seven Parts", which does involve a siege late in the game (the DM strongly implied this, which is why I designed our city and started making sheets for our forces in the first place).

>>55295325
Anyone have the DM pdf for AD&D 1?

>>55299825
check the osr trove?

>>55299825
>>55300952
I have a massive torrent with most of 1st and 2nd. I can upload it to my mediafire.

>>55301953
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/2cxlbe9bhov97/AD%26D_1.0

Will add other stuff later.

>>55296087
>>55296159
I disagree that other classes are the same as the basic classes. I think it's important to understand that warrior is the class group and fighter, ranger, paladin are the subclasses. Priest is the class group and cleric and druid are the classes. They're meant to be similar with alternative abilities and restrictions, druid leveling stops unless they go through the heirophant quest and reset their exp to 0. 3.5 druid isn't a druid it's a nature spell, pet buffing, shape change elemental cleric clusterfuck.

I do agree with magic as well, especially when you can show that magic spells did less damage and some had high costs like 2 years of your remaining life. Removing some of these things is what leads 3.5 and later to where nobody knows a good reason to not raise all the dead allies.