What card game has the best resource system? Like magic that

Poker

Duel Masters, but it could be made better.

>>55290206
Unironically Yugioh

WoW TCG

>>55291493
This

Yugioh is a clusterfuck of a card game, but the resource management is simple, yet has a surprising amount of depth. If you play Yugioh without extra decks it's actually pretty /comfy/

>>55290206
I like NetRunner's system.

You have a set number of "clicks" a turn and you can use them to draw/get creds(the "mana")/take actions.

Alteil and the HoMM card game used spheres.

Yes, you got some mana each turn, but you had to spend them on spheres first before you can spend them on units/spells of that sphere.

Alteil also had this cool thing where you recover the mana spent on the monsters when they die, or you can spend 1 mana to revive them; reviving a monster that just gets killed every turn is a mana sink, and letting it die to then play a bigger monster next turn is often the winning move, which was a very fun back and forth gameplay mechanic.

>>55291566
My nigga!

>>55291539

I second this. Its like a less shit version of the MTG system.

>>55290206
I created my own card game, and I think the resources work quite smooth in the game. Basically, you have 3 types of resources:

1) actions (each player has 5 actions per turn)
2) cards in hand (you discard cards in hand to use other cards)
3) health of your characters (some effects consume health of your own characters)

With these, the game works like a charmer. Its a system really easy to understand, even for non-gamers playing the game for the first time, but also have room for a lot of complexity that more advanced gamers like.

>>55293695
Doesn't have enough granularity. Too many effects wouldn't be able to find the right cost, with the costs either being too low or too high.

>>55293863
I agree that granularity is always an essential thing to take in consideration when thinking about resources for a game, but to be honest, I never had problem with it. Right now I have a little bit under 300 cards (for the first set) and I never had any major problem with granularity - if an effect should cost between N and N+1, I give it a little side effect (or drawback) to fit it into its cost.

Also, considering it has 3 resources, its a lot more to offer than most card games where you have only one main resource (lands, mana crystals, whatever). (though only 1 of the five "colors" actually use all three resources)

>>55291493
>>55291566
I feel that lowering the extra deck to like 4 and having restrictions for only using it in later turns would make normal monsters get more mileage and make the monsters special summoned be much more "special".

>>55291493

Yugioh has the absolute worst resource system of any game.

>>55291539
>>55293026
How does WoW work?

Duel masters, every card being mana was a great idea.

>>55290206
those lands are top tier

>>55296187
This is a really smexy concept, I wish it caught on in other stuff

>>55296430
I wish duel masters got more support over here. It's a shame wizards killed it and turned it into an abomination before we got all the crazy sets. And then killed it again.

>>55293695
>I made my own game and it has never been play tested therefore it is perfect

>>55295767
you have land like in magic but you can play any card from your hand face down and it'll count as a land

WIXOSS, you draw two and you can turn a card into ener(mana) in your upkeep, when you lose life it turns into ener and destroyed monsters usually turn into ener too

>>55296760

It's been a while, but if I recall, if you played a creature or something face down, you could later play its cost, like Morph to turn it back up? Or once it was lost it was lost?

>>55290206
Raw Deal. It translates a wrestling match perfectly to TCGs,

>>55290206
MECCG.

>>55291539
It's like duel master system

I've heard a lot about Duel Masters having a good resource system and that every card can be played as a resource, but how did it work? Is every card playable as one resource of the card's type, or were there ones that provided more?

>>55290206
Force of Will.

AFAIK it's similar to magic but you have a separate deck for your lands and get to play 1/turn.

>>55297315
oh my, a Duelmasters question, my favorite!

back when I played, every card can be used as a resource, as mentioned, there wasn't any major deviation, the only minor change before the game flat out died in NA was that rainbow creatures, they went in that resource pile already tapped (because multiple civs in one card already is kindof the big thing).

>>55291566
The extra deck is one of yugioh's really good design points though. Like to the point that magic is always on the fringe of doing a similar thing of their own but just can't because it isn't built in like it is for yugioh.

>>55290206
Force of will?

>>55290206
New l5r is pretty good.
I like Ashes, too.

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>>55297121
Wixoss is a work of beauty. Honestly one of the best designed tcgs I've ever played. Magic and yugioh both feel like 'gen1' tcgs in the sense that a lot of what they do, while foundational to most current approaches, feel clumsy and unrefined in comparison to the modern tcgs that have released in the last few years.

Raw Deal, where you built momentum by successfully playing cards that enabled bigger ones to be played was excellent, and nicely simulated the feel of a match.

I LOVED FFG's Call of Cthulhu, where you attached any card to one of three Domains that you exhausted to play for cards, but had to think carefully about which cards got attached, because only one could be expended to pay, and some cards needed to be paid entirely with one colour of resource.

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>>55296187
>>55296760
>>55297121
Using any card as a resource is a mechanic that you see in a lot of Japanese games.

>>55297360
This is what makes me want to play this game. I live Magic, but having to build around fetches, mana sinks, thinning, and screws/floods can be annoying when you JUST want to play a fun game with friends and neither person's deck agrees.

>>55298020
It really is, but the difficulty of getting the cards and the sheer fact that the art is too weeb for most people kills it outside of Japan. And that sucks.

Your hand can be energy, damage you take becomes energy, and your dead dudes become energy, which means your level of aggression and play style affects not only how close you are to winning, but how ready your opponent is to use his toolbox of Fuck You.

>>55298020
It will never be successful though

>>55291493

Are you actually high on your own farts? Yu-gi-oh's resource system literally requires you to break it in half in order to play at a more than casual level.

>>55297360
>>55297845
This
You can still have plenty land matters strategies and also things that punish greedy mana bases or interact with them but it's extremely reliable, doesn't screw much with your deck building and doesn't screw with your hand and draw.

Duel Masters, but every card also has mana reburst and there are action points as well. This would establish an acceptable level of granularity.

>>55291592
There's credits too right? I've never played but it looks like a lot of fun.

>tfw no Battletech CCG

L5R is pretty good too

MTG probably.

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>>55290206
>ctrl+f shadow era
>0 results
Best system I ever played imo. You can sacrifice up to one card per turn from your hand so it becomes a resource. Resources work like crystals in the HS but you don't get them for nothing - you have to decide which card can you sacrifice this turn or if you want to keep them all but you will have less resources than your opponent to use

>>55297999
>Ashes
Man, fuck plaid hat and asmodee for fucking that game up to high heaven release schedule wise.

Such a fun game, love the die resources and die mechanics, but only one release wave of overpriced decks per year, when you claim to be an LCG, that's just sad.

>>55290206
idk if anybody played the Naruto tcg (dont judge me) but it had a turn meter and every card had a required amount of turns that had to pass before it could be played.

Really basic but if you forget to up your counter you can get a little screwed

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>>55296760
I never played WoW, but one day I thought about this mechanic and it sounded like a really nice idea.

>>55296674
>I made my own game and it has never been play tested therefore it is perfect
I made it (and playtested for the first time) on summer 2014. Since then I haven't focused 100% on this game because I have at least other 3 games of my own that are good enough for publishing (in my opinion, of course).

pic related: people I don't know playing my game on a gaming event here in my city. Showed my card game once to this guy, a few weeks later he invited me to come as a guest to this gaming event to show my games.

>>55301772
Oh yeah that was neat..
[Spoiler]mlp [/spoiler] had a unique system where both players get recources based on victory points of the highest player, so no screw...
Also allegiances shared resource pool of three resources (economic, religious, and political) sounded neat.

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Rant about how great Wixoss is incoming:
>No "life points" you need to keep track on paper or with dice, life is tracked with cards. You don't need anything external to the cards themselves to play (no dice, etc).
>Combat and the resource system are integrated. Most games have a resource system, and a combat system, and they both muddle along more or less independently. While more recent games integrate the two in some way, making the game a more holistic experience.
>Excellent mix of predictability and randomness. Most games, you'll see every card in your deck, but the order you see them in changes, and their relevance in a given matchup changes.
>No mana screw, without creating an overly predictable resource development timeline like Hearthstone, Duel Masters, or FoW.
>Disposable resources, as opposed to ones that renew every turn. Ones that renew every turn lead to more static gameplay and require less long-term planning and prioritization.
>Good card flow, as opposed to mtg's .6 cards per turn.
>Probably more I'm forgetting.
Fuck I love Wixoss.

>>55301859
Man that's a lot of dice. I'm trying to get together a card game as well, and I have a strong personal aversion to dice. But that's a personal preference. I wish you luck in your endeavor.

>>55302215
too bad I don't play games that pander to loli

>>55302215
> Man that's a lot of dice.
All the D10 are merely counters. The only dices used in the game are D6. The character attacks have a 2d6 base damage. Besides this, some cards use dice as well (sometimes heavily, like "deal 10d6 damage"), but only the cards from 1 of the 5 "colors").

> and I have a strong personal aversion to dice. But that's a personal preference. I wish you luck in your endeavor.
I know some people don't like dices, especially in strategy/competitive games where they want to plan their actions ahead and not get buttfucked by bad luck. But having this in mind, I made the game in a way that certain strategies are more based on dices, while others are not. If you want, you can build a deck that wins without rolling a single dice (its a viable build for 3 of the 5 "colors").

Its honestly, a really good game :)

> I'm trying to get together a card game as well
I'm a game design (and a good one, in my opinion), and my focus is on card games and their mechanics. If you need any help/feedback, let me know :) I would be glad to help you

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>>55302319
You're missing out.

>>55302374
End you're life

>>55301772
I actually think I tried that out with my cousin or something, as he was big into it. Didn't jitsus function link mtg instants/combat tricks, but only by "exiling" certain cards from your "grave of the same type?

I only vaguely remember that, because I actually like how the more things you "lost" over a game became more resource to quickly turn a one-sided battle with your "special move," in an attempt to make it feel like an animu fight. It was actually a fun game, even if I didn't recognize half the characters.

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>>55302319
>>55302383

>>55302367
It's actually dice as counters that I dislike. They're easy to bump (what was my life total again?), easy to forget (literally everyone who plays mtg has forgotten their dice at least once), and create visual clutter. Again, it's just a preference, but I prefer to minimize the amount of non-card pieces people need to play a card game.

Although with stuff like "2d6 base damage", it sounds like you may be aiming for something more rpg-invoking, so dice may be a good fit.

>>55302532
> They're easy to bump (what was my life total again?), easy to forget (literally everyone who plays mtg has forgotten their dice at least once), and create visual clutter
I don't think dice as counters are easy to forget - I think any counter can be forgotten just as easily. For the other two reasons, they are valid, and the "easy to bump" is the one that most bother me. There is also a problem in my game that the characters may change position (position if relevant), and then the player needs to change the dices as well, while having the chance of changing the number in the dices accidentally. But even with these problems, it really brought more good than problems when I started using dices as a counter. It looks better than a sheet of paper with numbers, and I find it easy to take with me (I like to put it all in a small bag so I can have it with me all the time, in case I have an opportunity to play at a party or something).

> Although with stuff like "2d6 base damage", it sounds like you may be aiming for something more rpg-invoking, so dice may be a good fit.
Its not really RPG-invoking, to be honest. Its heavily MTG-inspired: it has 5 "colors", they have very strong colorpie (maybe stronger than mtg), etc. But I also tried to come up with mechanics not used in mtg, and the dice was one that made sense. It works well, especially when combined with non-dice effects, because it lets you use the dice effects first then, depending on the outcome, think whether or not to continue what you were initially going for.

Btw, I'm considering to try and publish the game, and if I do so, I think I won't use dices as counters (because that would make the game more expensive), and instead use a little notepad + pencil. I have considered other options to use as counters (health cards, etc), but so far I couldn't come up with anything better. One point to take in consideration is that usually the game features 6 characters (3 from each player) that have around 50hp

>>55293863
I'm glad that you can decide that a mechanic doesn't work off a single sentence, knowing nothing else about the game.

I personally like the GoT LCG where you have to choose a plotcard that determines initiative gold(mana) and claim vue(how good for violence you are on this tun) also a global effect

The best part of WIXOSS is when both players eventually have 1-0 life and both are trying to get that one attack through and kill each other as soon as possible

>>55302720
Some people here just assume everyone else sucks at everything. This one at least raised a question that is actually valid, which is taking granularity in consideration when coming up with a system for resources. This comment >>55296674 on the other hand, is just offensive for absolute no reason. Its the <spoiler>"anon claims he is good at something, so he must be 30yo lying virgin full of himself"</spoiler> mentality that is always present here.

Yes, anons can be good at whatever they do :)

>>55290206
Zach Bell had a really interesting one. Instead of a deck, you put all your cards in a spellbook. You could only play the cards on the currently open page, and some cards had to be slotted in after a certain page number. You can voluntarily turn a page on your turn, but the real nifty part is taking damage forced you to turn pages, and if you ran out of pages you lost.

Shame the game never got off the ground.

>>55290206
L5R

>>55290206
>>55304565
Also, Lord of the Rings

>>55302532
>I prefer to minimize the amount of non-card pieces people need to play a card game
I like games that do this too, but I've never had a problem with bumped dice or decks or counters, and I played regularly in a busy school lunch room. Sure tat shit can happen, but you deck can be bumped or your card's position/orientation could be changed too.

Forgetting pieces is valid though. Games with neat too many pieces can't as easily be solved by phone-based life counters or pieces of scrap paper.

>>55302374
Cute Servant.
>>55302215
Regular reprints that makes a lot of staples less expensive.

>>55302651
>regular dice rolling
Remember that players hate random. Adding more elements that are out of the player's control could result in a lot of salt, and the idea itself could turn away players once they hear about it, just like how some people will never play anime games or pokemon regardless of mechanics.

>>55305393
>Regular reprints that makes a lot of staples less expensive.
I remember when BD promos were expensive, I am glad that they fixed it

>>55304457
Sounds like it's something that could be successful if it lost the anime/manga aesthetic.

>>55305642
Yeah, if it wasn't tied to a (relatively) unpopular anime there was some really cool stuff there. I never even watched Zach Bell, the game was just a gift from a family member who had no idea what I was in to.

>>55297175
no it stays face down, unless it was a quest also stash was a fun mechanic

I quite like faeria's system of gaining mana per turn, which can be stored between turns. And actions that can be spent on playing the field, drawing a card, or gaining additional mana.

>>55298020
never comeing to the states ever sadly. game was super fun, would buy back in but no one plays it here

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Duel Masters/Kaijudo has the best resource system. It's simple, effective, and non-obstructive.

Force of Will has the best resource system of any game that's still being released though. My only complaint towards it though is that shuffling a second deck is kinda annoying though.

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What card game has the WORST resource system?

It's FFTCG, right?

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Though it pretty much only works in UFS, the UFS system is fantastic,

Each card has a difficulty (top left) and in order to play it you flip over the top card of your deck and check the control value(bottom right), if it equals or beats the difficulty, you can play the card, if it doesn't your turn ends. There's also "Foundations" that either enhance your attacks or add to control and a penalty added based on the number of cards you've already played that turn.

I've been making a card game recently and I'd like to know anon's opinion on the resource system I've been using.
Basically each deck has a hand size and a resource value. Each turn you draw up to your hand size and gain resources equal to your resource value.
Both of these are tied to deck construction and generally decks with cheaper cards will have a large hand (and 0-cost cards are a common occurrence in the game) and more expensive decks get more resources.

>>55308675
So does each card have a deck bonus value that increases the hand/resource size by 1 for every some points?

>>55308734
Deck construction is more like a mix between Conquest with 3 warlords that are Supports rather than units and Star wars.

You pick 3 sets of cards to construct your deck from, each of which give some amount of resources and hand size. They also come with mandatory cards and some more optional cards used to fill out the rest of your deck.

>>55298872
>Using any card as a resource is a mechanic that you see in a lot of Japanese games.
This actually is exemplified in Mottainai, which also explains why the concept is so prevalent. Japan has an interesting concept on "waste" and Mottainai is a game where every card matters as material or points/ability, and even what you can and can't do.

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star wars destiny has a pretty good resource system. Your characters and cards can generate mana as one of the things they can do, among everything else in the game like shoot or create a shield or whatnot, and you have to consider the statistical liklihood of getting a mana every time you roll your dice, dependent on how many mana symbol results are on the dice you include in your deck.

I come from years of mtg and this game is refreshing and fun.

I play a lot of elder scrolls legends and hearthstone too, but those by far have the worst resource systems of them all. Simply being given one per turn eliminates the deckbuilding aspect regarding considering the statistical liklihood of getting the mana you need that is present in Destiny or Mtg etc. That isn't to say those games are bad.

>>55305684
After seeing it boasted about on here I actually bought a few super clearance booster boxes from the first set online, it's greatly interesting and I wish there was some more interesting application of mechanics of some kind. The book thing is great but you can really boil it down to math regarding which Mamodo did the best spread of damage and ability.

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>>55290206
Everybody's talking about TCGs.

Are there any deckbuilding games with good resource systems?

>>55308826
Not as cool as each card having its own deck bonus value.

>>55296187
>>55296486
>>55297225
>>55297315
>>55308188
y'know... I really, really miss Duelmasters...

>>55311029
I think that would probably be way too fiddly for most people and just clutter up the cards. Plus I like restricted deck building.

>>55311029
That'd require a lot of keeping tabs on each individual value.

>>55301440
Sounds like how Codex uses gold. Because Codex has a deck-building aspect, it can be advantageous to pitch a surprising amount of cards out of your hand over the course of the game.

>You slowly build up resources over the course of a game, making the actions played late game considerably more powerful than actions in the early game.
>Players get the same amount of resources to use every turn so the actions are consistently powerful over the course of a game.

Which is better?

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>>55312042
I hate to come across as a broken record, but Wixoss really hits the best of both worlds. Ener production is relatively constant turn to turn, but in the early game it's tied up with fairly procedural actions (leveling up), while in the late game there's more freedom to start throwing powerful arts and spells.

>>55312042
Neither. The superior option is:
>You have a limited amount of resources at the start of the game, and must carefully decide when to use your most powerful actions because your opponent may be able to counter those actions if you use them too early.
>aka: all spells cost HP to cast

>>55312733
>Your deck size is your life total.
>All damage is done via mill
>Your resource is removing your discard pile from play
>(Obviously some cards cost no resources)

Time to get cuhrazee

>>55313035
Is this an actual tcg, or is this some anon's crazy idea? If you can get the number right, this could actually work.

>>55296760

Yeah, the deck building limitations came from your hero rather than resource color. IE: a horde tauren shaman could have horde cards, shaman cards, or tauren specific cards. Some sets had some limitations like picking scryer or aldor faction stuff for your deck.

But, the quests as resources, plus any card put face down if no quests are in your hand, let you meet your resource curve more easily than in MTG where you specifically must have land cards. It removes the possibility of getting 'mana screwed;. You can still effectively get the same effect as mana flooded, if you draw a hand of nothing but quests, however. The removal of one of the least fun outcomes of a MTG game is nice.

>>55313035
>>55312733
>>55313652

Decipher's SWGGC operates sort of like that. Your 60 card deck is your 'life force'. there is a cycle between your reserve deck, force pile, and used pile. At the start of your turn, you move cards from your reserve deck to your force pile, and you pay the cost of cards out of your force pile. cards used to pay go into the used pile. at the end of your turn, the used pile goes to the bottom of your reserve deck. There are may options while playing to force discards from the various piles (loss of combat, force drains, etc). when your reserve deck runs out of cards, you loose.

>>55312042
What about
>You start with lots of resources and your income slows over the course of the game.
or
>Your performance in the game determines the amount of resources you gain.

>>55312042
>>55313981
It's not really a question of better, but more about what sort of feel you want the game to have.

>>55308734
>>55311029
Try UFS>>55308502

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>>55290206
Of all card games I played I likes resource system in MMDoC the most. Mana gain and increase (+1 each turn) are automatic but cards require stats to be played. Each hero has starting stats and every turn can use action to increase one stat by 1.

For example, you nice earth magic board wipe requires 3 Magic and you hero has 1 or 0 at the start. If you want to play it early you have to invest in Magic stat which means your Might remains low and you have access only to weaker creatures. If you are against slower decks you might chose to invest in better creatures and raise Might but your spells will be playable only later and you can switch fast.

>>55315453
>likes
C'mon now

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>>55295154
>TFW you aren't as much as an embarassment as this chick

>>55313981
>>You start with lots of resources and your income slows over the course of the game.
Sounds like Megacorp, except how much resource you start with depends on how much you "bet" against the other play to decide who goes first.

>>55305393
>Remember that players hate random.
Hearthstone clearly proved us all there's a lot of people that like card games with a lot of random shit. The game is basically a slot machine generator.

> Adding more elements that are out of the player's control could result in a lot of salt
At the same time I add dice rolling, I removed A LOT of the randomness out of the deck/card draw mechanic. So basically it is as much random as MtG, sometimes even less.

Also, like I mention on >>55302367, one or two "colors" of the game are more oriented to dice rolling, while the others don't have it in their colorpie (though basic attack uses 2d6).

Cardfight Vanguard

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>>55298872

>"As long as the game is fun and we'll made nothing matters!"
>"Unless it has cute anime girls then fuck it!'

I've heard that shit from so many people at my LGS. Force of Will and other games falling to the wayside because a card has a cute girl on it.

>>55290206
I like Dominion's resources
> You have three resources: $, action/turn and buy/turn
> You have $ cards, and you spend them to buy shit
> You have 1 action/turn and 1/buy turn, but cards give you more of those (buy =/= draw)
Its a deckbuilder, but I think a mechanic like that could work on a normal trading card game.

>>55290206
I honestly think MtG has the best system. The inherent unpredictability and risk of flooding or getting screwed is a huge part of what makes the fun and interesting, and also a huge reason why certain strategies are viable in the first place. If you're certain that you'll get a mana every turn there's little reason to not play midrange fatties in your deck, even if you're an aggro deck. In a world where getting your mana is unreliable, however, there's actually incentive to having your curve stop at four and/or try to disrupt your opponent by blowing up his lands.

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Netrunner is hands down the best:
Each player has X clicks (3 for the corporation and 4 for the runner).
Each player can convert these clicks into:
Card draw (one click = one draw)
Credits (one click = get one credit)
Which means that all resources are always available. Its not like in most cardgames like MTG where you could have a hand with 1 mana creatures and being unable to throw it, you can ALWAYS generate the basic resources required.

Netrunner is also one of the most underrated card games out there, never understood why it isn't bigger.

>inb4 someone says increased RNG is what makes games good / fun

>>55290206
vampire: the eternal struggle
You're life pool works also as the main resource

>>55290206
New L5R - no one will be screwed by an economy in this game and no leader getting away scenario present.

Yugioh STILL has the best resource system

>>55318378
nope, it's not - every deck uses economy cards (Adonis for how long was a staple?) if you don't draw to them fast you are screwed.

>>55290206
The spoils, kind of like FoW and duel masters, but cards have colour requirements, which can only be met with actual lands rather then any card put face down. Basically real lands work as tiers, you have for example to have three rage to play a certain creature, but you only pay mana, not that three rage. It creatues room for pretty good deckbuildig shenanigans and getting mana screwed is not as bad as magic.(you start with two resources on the field, so a monocolour deck can play decently even if you draw no lands at all)

>>55318378
>Each player has X clicks (3 for the corporation and 4 for the runner).
>Each player can convert these clicks into:
>Card draw (one click = one draw)
>Credits (one click = get one credit)
never played Netrunner, but that system sort of looks like my own game's resource system (>>55293695). The player actions are basically what you described the "clicks" are.

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>>55318444
Ah a so you're a new player yea? Welcome to the community of netrunner!
But please read my post again, slower this time.
Notice this time around how i specifically mentioned how the resource actions are there to play other cards?
Let me explain this so its abit easier for you:
>Mtg : If you don't draw the cards you need, you cannot speed up draw
>Mtg : If you don't draw the right resource cards you cannot play anything
>Netrunner: If you don't draw the right cards you can can draw 4 times each turn
>Netrunner: If you don't have the money to play your resource cards, you can just pick up 3 credits and then play them

Was that easier to wrap your head around?

>>55318462
Yeah kinda similar.

>>55318444
Never played Netrunner, but I vouch for this resource system because its basically what I use on my own game and its VERY GOOD. Like >>55318543 said, even if you draw shit cards or have no decent action on that turn, you don't waste as much time because you can spend doing a lot of card draw and/or gathering resources for when you do have something to do. I know MtG is an incredible game, but I think its resource system is a bit crappy in its core, and its very common to have turns where you draw a land on late game, and it is just a dead draw. Making 100% of the resources based on lucky drawing gives a lot of space for having shitty matches.

>>55302215

Most of what you said doesn't sound good just different. Also the aesthetics of a trading card game are of paramount importance.

>>55318543

What he's saying is that this doesn't matter, because economy cards are so overwhelmingly powerful relative to trading resources in this manner that you can't win unless you draw your economy cards anyway, so in effect the game has something worse than mana screw/flood. And what he's saying rings true from my experience with netrunner as well. If your opponent plays their "I get a shitload of credits or clicks for free" card early on and you don't, you're absolutely fucked

>>55318407
I'm sad vtes doesnt get love here. In my experience, the most ttrpg -like ccg. Also, made by the guy who made mtg after wanting to make something better.

>>55318543
Where in my post I compared netrunner to mtg? Can you read something and learn to reply to it rather than a set of your presumptions? This supposed to be primary school level skills.

You can draw 4 cards each turn and if your opponent drew econ cards he can have a steady flow of resources and do stuff that will get him ahead and prevent you from getting back to the game. You got econ card no resource left because you clicked for a card - trace - trash - thank you for this econ card runner.

You simply never ever played netrunner in competitive enviroment.

>>55290206
i absolutely adore dominion for multiple reasons and the resource system is one of them.

>>55318774
>>55319128
Nice timings mate. Sorry for triggering you this much.

Why is it you MTG get this triggered when people bring up flaws with it? Are you scared that its gonna keep loosing customers or something?

And yeah, its obvious you're a new player if you can't recover from not drawing one economy card. Git good son.
Also:
>Other players draws one better card than you
>He wins

Your mtg logic is showing through. Tactics is a bigger part in Netrunner.

The best resouce system is probably Yu-Gi-Oh. It has a wide range of possible costs/restrictions, enabling for a plentiphora of possible actions as soon as turn 1. Which is also the main appeal of that game. This however, because of the current way of card design and the focus on card advantage as main resource, has made going first a bit too favourable.


The most important element of a resource system is the way you structure the other cards around it. draw 2 is broken in YGO because those 2 cards can be played instantly, but draw 2, for (2)(B)(B) in MTG is not, because they can not both immediatly be played, unless you are at least 6 turns into a game.

However, unless the game makes sense of it flavour wise and it really adds to the feel of the game I think the idea of having acumilating mana/actions is just stupid.


Why do pokemon need energy to attack? Flavour wise it makes no sense. The number of times a attack can be used should be the restriction. Or amount of badges or something. But because of the energy system slowing things down, card draw and search is not as broken in pkmn as in other games, making sure you dont get the energy drought if you play 10 ish energies and some searchers.

While MTG's mana is a liability it fits flavour wise with the planes/planeswalker etc.


Similair to the situation with pokemon Fire emblem cypher has a recource system that works, but just doesnt really feel as part of the world the game takes place in.

>>55319417
> The best resouce system is probably Yu-Gi-Oh
I think I should learn Yu-Gi-Oh, just to get a hold of the mechanics. I always thought it was a bad game, until a friend of mine who was a very good MtG player told me he actually prefers Yu-Gi-Oh than MtG.

> raw 2 is broken in YGO because those 2 cards can be played instantly, but draw 2, for (2)(B)(B) in MTG is not
Card draw and playing a card is 100% subjective. I know games you can draw 5 cards in the first turn and play all of them, and still doesn't have much impact.

>Why do pokemon need energy to attack?
I honestly think pokemon TCG is ultra shit, mechanic-wise. I only played the first edition, but c'mon.

> While MTG's mana is a liability it fits flavour wise with the planes/planeswalker etc.
My opinion about MTG's land/mana system is that its a not-very-good resource system improved through 20+ years of epic game design.

>>55319969
>I always thought it was a bad game
It's not.
Don't listen to the people saying YGO is a good game or has a better resource system.
YGO is a bad game. In fact, it's barely a game at all. Most of the decks are just using the best cards in a pre-made archetype along with some bread and butter required cards so you don't get one turn killed. And that's just deck building.
The game is just following the wall of text on a card to tutor into increasingly bullshit cards until your opponent shut you out with an effect canceler otherwise you win.
Like imagine if the entirety of MtG was tribal decks with tribal-specific diabolic tutors ( except worse because sometimes it directly puts those cards into play ). And there is no mana system that stops someone from shitting out their entire hand while still keeping up a counterspell so you can counterspell their counterspell when you're about to win the game in one turn.
I played the shit out of YGO online and didn't play MtG until after getting tired of it. MtG is way better.

>>55320137
> YGO is a bad game.
> MtG is way better.
MtG being better doesn't make YGO bad. MtG is the greatest card game since ever.

>everything else you said
That is why I always thought the game is shit haha. But I hear good things from it sometimes, so I feel like trying it out to see whether it actually have something good in it or if its just fans been protective.

>>55320167
YGO is a bad game but it can be fun.

>>55296760
is there anything preventing someone from just running a deck with no lands and sacrificing unwanted cards as lands?

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>MTG, a game where having more money than your is the only way to win is in this discussion

You guys do realise that MTG is just a huge cash-grab right? Strategy is only relevant if your opponent has the same amount of money as you.
Even the creators have admitted that their blind-package system means that its not a game of strategy anymore?

>inb4 t.poorfag who cant punsh out 5000 dollarinos or more each 6 months for pieces of cardboard or doesn't want to play the only cheap tier one deck out there.

>>55320265
> Strategy is only relevant if your opponent has the same amount of money as you.
Any game you need to buy shit fits this description. If you can't buy the cards, you can't play the game.

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>>55320137
>one turn kills
>wall of text
>mtg is better even though you can barely compare them
Jeez, I could fill out a bingo card with this post.

>>55320315
Whole collections of most LCG's cost less than buying half a playset of any magic cycle.

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>>55320265
>Not realising MTG is the greatest strategy game out there since you have to strategise your whole life around it to have a chance of winning top tier matches

Kys

>>55320400
You choose your hobby based on how much you can afford, mate. If you want to go for MtG low budget, go for pauper or something like that (http://magicgatheringstrat.com/2015/06/the-price-of-pauper/).

Or you can always play casually without spending tons of cash, anyway. You can always borrow cards from your friends (or entire decks), or use a proxy. Idk. Its up to you, really.

>>55320332
You forgot "premade archetypes" as though magic doesn't actively have those (around 10 of them per set as a matter of fact) just not called out in the card name itself.

>>55320451
And yet you'll never see the premade archetypes designed by Wizards dominate any format.
Every top tier deck is always something the players came up with themselves.
Wizards has a habit of making the archetypes they designed underpowered.

>>55313665
>Yeah, the deck building limitations came from your hero rather than resource color. IE: a horde tauren shaman could have horde cards, shaman cards, or tauren specific cards.
Thats an interesting system for a card. Seems like itd be tough to divvy up effects with that many permutations though.

>>55313665
>>55320549
I like this idea because it limits what you can put in your deck, but once in your deck, you can play whatever comes without worrying about getting the right mana, like in MtG and other similar games

>>55320542
You know BG delirium and Mardu vehicles and Temur energy were all archetypes designed by wizards, right? Temur were the primary energy colors in Kaladesh, WR was an aggressive vehicle based strategy, and BR was a general artifact aggro strategy in Kaladesh, so mardu decks are just taking advantage of that synergy they built in so limited runs together smoother. And BG was the de facto delirium archetype in SOI and EMN. Wizards intended constructed desert deck from HOU as well, though I dont remember ever seeing what colors they intended.

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>>55320199

The quest cards that are supposed to be used as the land stand in have nice bonuses if completed. Like drawing cards or pic related.

>>55320549

For the most part, you are building decks with matching class abilities (some abilities in later sets had multiple classes for a single ability) and neutral and faction matching allies (the creature equivalents). Honestly, the one thing thats kinda annoyed me is trying to figure out how to build a fun, playable and draftable cube for WoWTCG. I have enough cards to do it, but I'm not sure how to build it in a way that wouldn't suck.

>>55320576

Yeah. It has in built limitations but removes the ever possible outcome that MTG has of "I can't play a game of magic because I got fucked by the luck of the draw". I mean, picking a card to put face down can be a daunting task, as its gone and unsable for the rest of the game.

>>55320638
Also, the variations of BG post AER like Constricter and Rishkar are also based on Wizards archetype for BG in KLD and AER which was counters.

>>55320638
And you'll notice how standard has been dropping players like flies because standard sucks because it's an overly curated environment.

>>55320743
>ackchually wizards makes its archetypes so shit theyre not good enough so players can build their own custom decks
>ackchually no a good chunk of standard is wizards's archetypes
>AND LOOK AT HOW SHIT IT IS RIGHT NOW HUH???
Move those goal posts any faster and you'll get rope burn. Also the criticism wasnt "overcuration", it was lack of answers.

>>55320842
>NWO standard is the only standard that exists

>>55320842
>Standard is the only format

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>>55320908

>>55320920
>>55320542
>And yet you'll never see the premade archetypes designed by Wizards dominate >>>any format.
>>55320743

>>55320951
If you wanted to pick at semantics then you could have said limited or sealed you dumb faggot.

>>55320991
Theres no "semantics" involved. Standard was being talked about. You can't go ">IMBLYING STANDTARD IS THE ONLY FORMAT" when the discussion had been about standard. Follow the god damn reply chain.
>>55320842
>>55320743

>>55321040
I mentioned any format first, you mentioned standard specifically when you could have also mentioned limited and sealed as a counterpoint.

>>55321087
Draft and sealed are not constructed formats. They dont make sense as an example of a format where wizards designed archetypes are not the main played decks because the formats are (nearly) entirely wizards designed archetypes. Players dont have the option to not build them. Its why theyre called limited and constructed formats are called constructed. What the fuck are you even talking about. It also doesnt make sense in a Yugioh comparison because yugioh packs are pretty much sealed unplayable.

>>55294031
Is it the best one?

>>55321558
Not sure I understood what you meant. You are asking if the 1 "color" that use all resources is the best one? It has the most powerful spells, but that doesn't make it the best one

>>55308826
Sounds a bit like Codex's approach to me. (Though your game isn't a deckbuilder, whereas Codex is.)

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>alt+super key+page up
>no doomtrooper

>>55309534
>star wars destiny
>you get random cards from a deck AND random resources or damage from dice
No thanks i don't play lottery games

>>55320638
Mechanics aren't archetypes, those decks are mostly goodstuff built around a mechanic. An example of an archetype is suicide aggro or burn or stompy. Vehicles, delirium, energy, exert all are mechanics.

>>55322443
Oh snap, it's pretty much exactly like codex except:
1. Heroes are upgrades
2. You buld your deck at the start rather than as the game progresses.

How did I not realize that earlier? I love the shit out of codex.

>>55313708
Fire Emblem Cipher had a nice way of doing stuff. Heard it's like Duel Masters (and by proxy, a lot of nip cardgames, I guess), but it has the nice feature of upgrading characters you control with stronger versions at a discount, too. (Which Weiss Schwarz does, right?)

>>55313035
This is the Zach Bell game mentioned above except your resource is self-mill instead of the discard pile.

>>55290206
Force of Will.