Aquatic / Marine Weapons & Armor

Armor would need to be very light, so you can still swim in it (aquatic races in my setting use treated sharkskin).

>>55279879
You can still swim in heavier armor, it just would prove tiring (at least unless you had sufficient volume to remain vaguely buoyant even in armor, but let's disregard Baleen Giants for now). Possibly bring pack animals / beasts / servants to carry your armor for you, only don / doff it on the eve of battle?

Of course this also ignores the obvious factor that if you're aquatic / marine being forced to walk upon the body's bottom is more a limitation of mobility than a death sentence. Something in more shallow waters might not even matter too significantly, if the difference between the reach of your weapons (whether thrust or thrown) and the water's surface is negligible.

... Would water depth modify how such races arm themselves for battle? In deeper water aiming to focus on mobility, shallow-er water a mix of light 'infantry' optimizing in hit-and-run whilst the heavier 'infantry' is used to hold or deny 'ground'?

>>55279740
Brass, copper, and aluminum are all viable marine grade metals. The problem is smelting the metallic ore, which I suppose you could attempt in a volcanic vent. But I don't know.

>>55280353
Main ways I can think of getting around this are:

1) Your aquatic / marine race is at least vaguely amphibious. Working a forge would be a right bitch (and presumably come with either a very very low or very very high social status to go with as much), but at least somewhat viable now.

2) Your race is capable of trading with someone who can produce such refined materials. Maybe they bully them because waterways are fucking important in ancient societies. Maybe they're bully them because they (the surfacers) are the ones with metal and they (the fish people) are stuck using polished stone otherwise. Either way, its production is out of their hands.

3) Fuck it, you'll accept the impurities from working with volcanic vents and whatnot.

>>55279740
I assume that dire aquatic animals and aquatic monsters are an option for this, so my guess is unless you can get metal armor as >>55280530 formulated, natural materials (like shells, scales from plated fish, shark skin, etc.) can be a pretty good alternative. They are abundant and lighter than metal; the only issues with them might be the treating process and durability.
Sea folks in my setting don't have that problem, since they're the only seafaring races in the world and their earth dwelling allies pay them handsomely in metal.

>>55279740
spears (thrust) should be the main thing imo, and for projectile weapons: Harphoons maybe?
since the most important thing would be imo, hindering movement would be another important factor, entanglement, immobilization (nets, deadweights) , causing critical injuries to limbs, etc. Also, disrupting vision? Like disturbing the waters (ink?)

>>55279740
https://pastebin.com/u/Curupira
>Underwater civilization without fire nor magic

Piercing weapons seem to work better with hydrodynamics.

And parasitic snails live off you in exchange for becoming conic nails useful as last-resort weapons and/or fashion. Of course, their shell is longer and tapering to a sharp point.
http://echinoblog.blogspot.com.br/2014/06/p-is-for-parasitic-snail-enter-eulimidae.html

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>>55279740
>>55279879
>>55283931
http://greatmingmilitary.blogspot.com.br/2014/11/leather-armour-of-ming-dynasty.html
>Isinglass armour of Guangzhou
>Militias from Guangzhou also made armours and shields out of isinglass (hardened fish glue made from fish bladder). This armour was said to be extremely tough and bulletproof.

>>55280353
Aluminum isn't really viable until 19th levels of tech. There's a reason why it was valuable than gold. The final paragraph in >>55286311
is the level one can produce aluminum.

>>55280353
You're in a fucking fantasy setting with species that can't exist in real life. You could use domesticated giant metal-shelled oysters as biopunk 3D printers and it wouldn't explicitly be magic.

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So, consensus seems to be:

Weapons: Focus on piercing (with particular focus on surface area to reduce water resistance), with auxiliary weapons likely focused on things such as debilitation (nets) or otherwise limiting one's mobility (hooks, weights).

Armor: When possible, brass and copper (or - if set much further along chronologically - aluminum) formed into plates over vitals with specially cured hides / scales / 'scales' to cover joints / everything else.

Heavy "Infantry" as it's generally thought can exist, but is only really viable in shallows (water depths ≤3m, give or take one) or cramped underwater tunnels where the loss of energy-efficient mobility in a 3D environment becomes negligible.

Presuming underwater species can be domesticated and / or trained (or magically enthralled), Heavy "Cavalry" remains vaguely possible (due to surface area and volume and whatnot) but gets even more pricy than historical analogues (due to scale, material, and complications in acquisition / sizing / maintenance).

Nature of Combat: Many engagements, due to environmental factors, will be fought at either short ranges (melee / vaguely ranged) or along vertical planes (dropping shit down from above / floating it up from below) instead of horizontal, the former lacking traditional formations and latter involving things such as dropping crude depth charges or raising lighter-than-water chemicals / substances.

>>55290670
Armor correction: brass, copper, cobalt and nickel used as coating over iron. Bronze also works. The best bronze alloys can pierce mild steels.

The elite infantry could be the ones proeficient at fighting in dry land.

Ranged weapons would probably be small darts using crossbows(?). A lot of power to propel a small package whose killing power lies in the jellyfish stings covering it.

The other possibility is training animals as "ranged weapons". At least one species is suitable:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Needlefish#Danger_to_humans

Also consider sharks. They are better "flanking cavarly" if no one mounts them. The "knights" are the ones at the back guiding their movements, through electric signals or sound.

Many agressive marlins throwing themselves against the enemy can be an analogue to a shower of javelins. Skirmisher and projectile in one.

>>55292046
My general understanding was Steel > Bronze ≥ Iron, with the caveat that Bronze is GENERALLY a trade-up over Iron in several matters (in addition to advantages such as resistance to tarnishing and - if I recall right - ease in repair) but at the cost of being heavier (barring a few types of iron) and more costly.

Crossbows might not work the best underwater due to water resistance. My thought was something like an atlatl, but I'm not quite sure how one would get one of those to work underwater.

Sharks could work, with some vaguely even "social" enough to fill the roll of aquatic hounds (war sharks?). Alternatively certain dolphins / whales.

>>55279740
Weapons: Stabbies, shit like nets and bolas, "scissors", that rely on counterforces to shred over momentum.
Armor: Light and minimal, or else full-body and made out of shit like leather. Heavy Armor might see use, but only by specialist heavy troops, or sea-floor bound troops.
Alternatively: Mage Armor would likely see much more use, to the point that even generic soldiers might learn it. Learning one spell isn't too hard. Rodney the peasant can do it with the right instruction. If that proves impossible, Mage Armor Scrolls, and the training to use them would be standard-issue.
Production: More of a focus on assembling natural materials, trade, or reliance on surface forging methods.

Tools: Tethers/Anchors would be in hot demand, as is anything that could potentially provide thrust. Expect aquatic wizards to invent shit like disposable wands that emit a harmless burst of force in one direction for speed or evasion.

Magic: Lighting would dominate, but then so would Lighting Protection. Resist Lighting or GTFO, basically. Otherwise, mobility magic is in higher demand, while hazard-based would probably be less.
I anticipate something like a water deletion spell might be used in place of something like Fireball, something that removes a large chunk of water, and relies on the water pressure to force water above down in a crazy-strong blunt force area attack.
I also anticipate friction/water resistance reduction magic would be a thing.

>>55293378
The thing is that it depends on the alloy. Many bronzes are inferior to many steels, but there is carbon steel, mild steel etc etc. And there are different mixes of bronze as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YAFz7UeVm4E

http://www.bronze-age-swords.com/

The cost also depends, mostly from how far the sources of tin are from the sources of copper. If you have they nearer than in real life, a full plate of bronze becomes more feasible than it was in ancient real life.

>Crossbows might not work the best underwater due to water resistance.
Yeah, that was just a guess, not really my field.

Crazy idea, what about a kestros? Mind you, I still think the venom will provide the killing power no matter the system.

>Alternatively certain dolphins / whales.
Fuck, forgot dolphins! More sociable and intelligen than horses, more vicious as well, can use sonar to pinpoint vital organs... just strap a spear harness or muzzle on them and have fun, huh?