Competitive Modern General

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>>55269110
But we have the best sweeper.

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>>55269110
>What are the best sweepers in the format?

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Check out this.

2 Aetherling

4 Path to Exile
2 Peek
1 Wrath of God

3 Telepathy
2 Journey to Nowhere
4 Spreading Seas
3 D Sphere
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Nevermore
2 Cast Out
4 Gideon's Intervention
2 Sphere of Safety

1 Elixir of Immortality


4 Mutavault
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Flooded Strand
4 Temple of Enlightenment
3 Island
3 Plains

Sb
2 Condemn
2 Dispel
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Disenchant
4 Negate
2 Kor Firewalker

>tfw building a control deck with no sweeper
Does blood moon and Kalitas count?

Anyone here use proxies? Just bought some and hoping they are passable do I don't have to drop over $400 on lands and tarmogoyf

Now Modern is officially the tranny format

Was pre-opt, soon gonna be post-opt

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>>55269110
I've always been a fan of Volcanic Fallout. I play Burn and bring it in against token decks and the various company decks. Takes people by surprise since they usually expect Anger of the Gods. I mean, anger is great, but fallout is an instant and deals damage to the opponent. Pretty sweet and underappreciated I think.

>>55269807
2 damage isn't really enough to clean the board

I wish damnation had more reprints and coupd cost as much as wrath of god.

>>55269556
I dont use them because I am autistic and enjoy having valuable things, but a friend of mine has a few and they look identical when doublesleeved. Just don't get the ENTIRE deck proxied, so that you can feign ignorance if you get caught

Thinking about getting back into modern (and mtg as a whole). One of the deck concepts I liked in the past was counter cat/aquarium zoo. Are these even remotely viable?

>>55270074
It's revolt zoo nowadays

I can't get a set of Stony Silences for a while, what does /tg/ think of Kataki as a temporary replacement? Looks just as good as long as they can't sac artifacts before the trigger.

>>55269359
How does it play?
Do you plan on putting in Ixalan's Binding when it comes out?
Also why no Celestial Colonnade or Chalice of the Void? Is it because they have an outrageous cost? Elspeth or Gideon would also be good, and they shouldn't cost too much.

>>55270263
Kataki has the drawback of dying to removal. It still wastes Tron's eggs so they can't filter for sorceries, makes it harder for Affinity to assemble and keep Metalcraft, and it affects static artifacts unlike Stony, but Stony is overall better due to how hard its effect is and the fact that it's harder for most decks to get rid of. If you're playing CoCo or Spirits it does have a significant upside over Stony.

>>55269359
Add 2x Sphinx's rev for the memes

>>55270364
Ixalan's Binding will likely replace Gideon's Intervention. May test an Elspeth or Gideon over the second Aetherling.

I like Mutavault over Colonnade because it leaves way more mana open.

>>55270438
Been wanting to test this.

>>55270470
Ok.
I would like to know its strengths and weaknesses since I want to have a second deck to play. How do you play against Titanshift, Tron, Affinity, and Death's Shadow?

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>>55269110

Kills Dredge dead.

>>55270263
In my experience Kataki actually fucks decks like Lantern and Affinity harder than Stony, it's just not as good against Tron and it will occasionally get shot by removal before it can do anything. If you're playing a Coco or Vial deck I'd say he's worth a shot, but if you're playing UWx Control or some midrange pile I think Stony is better.

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30 Creatures
4 Wild Nacatl
4 Goblin Guide
3 Kird Ape
4 Narnam renegade
4 Burning Tree Emissary
4 Reckless bushwhacker
1 Tarmogoyf
4 Voltaic brawler
2 Simian Spirit Guide

12 Noncreature Spells
4 Lightning bolt
4 Atarkas command
2 Path to exile
2 Rancor

18 Lands
4 Arid Mesa
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Stomping Grounds
1 Temple Garden
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Forest
1 Mountain

I actually like this list.
It has the appropriate mix of aggression and late game power.

After ixalan, voltaic brawlers might come out for pic related, and Kird apes might be experiment ones. Rancor used to be Ghor clan rampagers, but I didn't like the singular use.

Give me some spicy zoo tech?

How do you use olivia voldaren correctly? Just murder things to pump her? Or poke steal?

>>55271723
Poke steal

>>55271723
Whichever uses less mana. If it'll take more than two pings to kill, steal it.

>>55271187
Do not play Old-Growth Dryads. Good god do not play that card anon. Giving your opponent a land and potentially color fixing for them is catastrophic to your aggro plan.

>>55272830
This. Wild Nacatl has already fallen off the radar. Why would you play a CONSIDERABLY worse version of it?

What is a fun aggro deck that isn't affinity and doesn't break the bank?

>>55272974
Burn

>>55272974
8whack.

>>55273034
Is Burn really an aggro deck, though? I would describe it as more of a tempo deck that sits between aggro and combo, but isn't really either of them. Playing it has convinced me that the Aggro-Combo-Control dichotomy is complete bupkis.

>>55273136
It's an aggressive deck and therefore 'aggro'. Its just not creature based aggro.

Is B/W aggro possible? I see a lot of mid-range and I don't like tokens

>>55273205
Ain't nothing to it but to brew it.

>>55273136
The Correct play is always Bolt you for 3, so I'ma say its Aggro

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>>55269110
ma boi (overloaded of corse)

>>55273413
That's not even true 100% of the time. Against Death's Shadow, for example, you sandbag spells and let them kill themselves for you. It's almost always better to bolt the mana dork. Against control you play a hilariously fun game of cat-and-mouse. Just because Burn CAN (and usually is) be aggressive, doesn't mean you SHOULD always be aggressive not is it always the correct line of play.

>>55273205
Well, you can try running some D&T and make it more aggro oriented.

>>55273205
>use stuff like lingering souls for cheap flyers
>find a way to pump them
>hand disruption with duress + IoK +thoughtseize


i smell potential

>>55269692
Where does this dumbass line of thinking come from? Modern is the most popular constructed competitive format, it easily tops Standard twitch stream views, GP attendance is usually significantly higher then other formats and so on.
Standard and Legacy dont come close to the amount of players Modern has, ironically both for the same reasons. Both Standard and Legacy are absurdly expensive and very stagnant/not diverse. Modern is the absolute cheapest way to play competitive Magic in the long term and the format is wide open with tons of decks to boot.

The only format which surpasses Modern in playerbase is Commander and thats literally because it is dirt cheap to get in and harbors all the casuals too intimidated by other formats

>>55273728
I've rebuilt my degenerate EDH deck after a year or two of hiatus to show these casual fucks who their daddy is.

>>55273613
That's literally BW tokens

>>55269807
My jigga, get yourself a Flamebreak
>deals with Ezurishits
>3 damage to each creature
>3 to the dome

>>55273822
>I'll play an enchantment that gives my board +2/+2 instead of playing another fucking creature!
Said the 0-4 player.

>>55273848
The point of BW tokens is that the rampant removal present in the format is inefficient against it, plus it's great at slowing down aggro decks with chump blockers and life gain. Not like a brainlet like you would understand

>>55273847
I have them and it's a card I heavily considered as my sweeper of choice. However, Flamebreak says "each creature without flying" and I need to lingering souls and spectral procession tokens.

Is Languish a good sweeper in Grixis Death Shadow? It seems like it would be relatively one-sided considering Angler, Tasigur, and sometimes Death's Shadow can survive it.

>>55273986
>*tips fedora*
Just play Spirits or something if you want to dodge removal and play evasive beaters.

Twitch/Magic, something happening now.

>>55274075
Or maybe play a deck that isn't total shit like BW tokens

>>55274145
>Bant Spirits
>Bad
Like nigger just no. Meanwhile BW has dropped off the map entirely.

>>55273690
You are a fucking retard who can't read. Enjoy this (You) cretin.

>>55274164
I much prefer tokens in current meta. The hand disruption is invaluable

>>55274253
It doesn't matter what you prefer if the deck hasn't had a competitive finish in literally years. The problem with tokens is that it is worse than all other options in modern at accomplishing its game plan.

>want to disrupt your opponents hand and play threats?
Grixis shadow, Any eldrazi deck, and GBx are all far better options.
>want to grind out fair opponents?
Ux control is far better and you still lose hard to Tron and valakut.
>Want to beat combo?
You still lose hard to valakut and tron while being worse than any other fair deck because your clock is so slow.

There is no reason to play BW tokens over any other deck in modern. The only advantage you have is blanking spot removal, but that doesn't matter when the best thing you can do is cast a lingering souls on turn 3. At least bant spirits has a niche in that it's a tribal creature deck that can interact at instant speed.

>>55272830
Turn three with a bushwhacker tests very very well. If by turn three you don't swing for game you don't win.

>>55274364
>hurr durr all these decks that do 1 thing well are better than this totally different than this deck
>muhh meta
Nice to know I can safely ignore your opinion reddit

>>55274376
Not the same guy, but why not just play Wild Nacatl instead and not give your opponent a land?

>>55274460
Ok dude keep playing BW pile
I enjoy BW stuff in Commander but its not good in this format

>>55274376
And if your T1 3/3 with a downside gets fatal pushed or bolted then your absolutely screwed.

>>55274460
What does BW tokens do well? Play shitty planeswalkers no other deck wants? Lose? If you want to play BW tokens go ahead, you just can't honestly think its a viable competitive choice.

>>55274553
It beats decks that run a lot of spot removal. That's all it really has going for it.

>>55274514
How is it bad?

>>55274553
See
>>55273986

>>55274475
I do both just because the power is pretty strong for a mana, even with a downside like it.

>>55274549
What good is a sword with only one edge? If it gets pathed its an even trade, but if I get through with it, it makes the decks turn three kill more consistent.

>>55274625
>if I get through with it
You won't.

>>55274598
I already addressed that in my original post >>55274364

It doesn't matter if your deck is good against spot removal if you don't kill your opponent quickly. Like sure lingering souls and bitterblossom are good against removal, but you still just die to reality smasher, primeval titan, collected company, dredge etc. You have to back up discard with powerful threats or your opponent will just topdeck out of it. BW tokens does not turn the corner fast enough which is why it has not had a competitive finish in years.

>>55274702
>die to creatures
>with all those chump blockers and path/fatal push
You have no idea what you're on about dude
The only really bad matchup is Tron
The point of tokens isn't fast aggression, it's grinding out your opponent, it's more of a midrange-control deck than anything else

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>>55274625
Man, i can't wait to teach people like you the error of their misbegotten ways.

>>55274625
I really don't know any other way to say it. The Dryads have a downside that is greater then its benefit. It's a matter of 'Risk vs Reward' and everyone but you agrees that the risk is too high.

>>55274848
>it's grinding out your opponent
Yeah I'm sure your two 1/1 fliers will grind out against that Tarmogoyf. Keep it up, champ.

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And here I thought there would be no Elf cards from Ixalan.

For the record I've no idea if this is good or anything, byt seems at least interesting.

>>55274848
>Path/fatal push against smasher and titan
>collected company not just killing you
>Removal against dredge

My man you haven't even played competitive modern. The whole point of this was that somebody said that BW tokens is one of the better decks in modern when it clearly isn't. Chump blocking w/ removal is just such a shit strategy against every competitive deck because they are doing much more powerful things than you. It's like playing soul sisters in modern, you just lose to half the field because you're interacting on an axis that most decks don't care about. At least soul sisters is a budget deck, for the price of BW tokens you could literally play any tier one deck.

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>>55274952
it can replace elvish archdruid in elves deck
t1- forest + llanowar
t2- forest + dwynen's elite + heritage druid + growing rites of iltimoc...it could be even possible cast a turn 2 collected company

>>55275217
>it can replace elvish archdruid in elves deck
No you dork, it can not. Archduid is a Lord, he is how you kill your opponent, you can't get rid of him.

>>55275217
>it can replace elvish archdruid in elves deck
Archdruid is a lord effect AND a Cradle effect you dipshit.

>>55275262
>not ezuri as a wincon
0-4 wait for you

>>55275350

>ezuri
>not just shaman of the pack

Go back to your 0-4 bracket.

>>55275327
>archdruid is a shitty 2/2 with summoning sickness that, if manage to survive, is also a walker cradle
FTFY desolator

>>55275460
with the latest add of vizier of remedies as a singleton, shaman of the pack is just a sideboard tech against some deck.
as usual, never change /tg/

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>>55275477
>actually arguing that archdruid is a bad card in the elves deck

>>55275477
Archdruid is great for pumping and chord of calling
What are you on about

>>55275727
AHAHHAHA LE GREENTEXT, EPIC PIC RELATED!!!!

>>55275768
elves doesn't win because of a bunch of 3/3 nettle sentinels with no combat ability...elves win because you tilt the board by flooding tons of cheap creatures and then let that Ezuri finish the job. who cares that the mana came from the elvish archdruid or came from a land, which is way more difficult to get the rid of?

>>55276061
Archdruid is the best way to activate Ezuri's ability and can tutor it with chord of calling

Is mono white hatebears viable?

>>55276451
Yes, it is. Its pretty decent to be honest.

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I'm thinking about building Esper Goryo. Does anyone have any experience with it? Any tips?

>>55276567
Kataki or Stony Silence for SB?

>>55276713
Stony Hoses Harder in my experience, harder to remove too.

>>55276630
include jin-gitaxias to really screw over your opponent.

>>55276061
>elves doesn't win because of a bunch of 3/3 nettle sentinels with no combat ability
Plan B for Elves is literally that. Go wider than the opponent and beat down with a bunch of small creatures.

>who cares that the mana came from the elvish archdruid or came from a land, which is way more difficult to get the rid of?
A 3 mana enchantment that requires setup, can't be grabbed by Chord of Calling and needs a mana investment is just as easy to destroy as a creature. You've never actually played against elves, have you?

Serious question /tg/
Anyone think Ruin Raider is modern playable?

>>55276854
It's definitely not as easy to kill as archdruid. it doesn't really need that much setup desu. I think the best argument is it makes coco significantly worse

>>55276935
no, seems like it's worse the dark confidant in almost every scenario.

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Playable in fish?

Does a lone Mogis out race Lantern Control?

MATCH REPORT
G1 vs Blue Steel
Kept a hand with Whir, Pentad and Lili on play, got Lili out turn 3 and edicted his Judges Familiar. Next turn a ballista blew up Lili, played Tezz and won with 5/5 beatdowns. Notable Whirred for an Executioner's Capsule to swing in unblocked.
G2
+1 Damnation
+2 Flaying Tendrils
+2 Herald of Anguish
-1 Nihil Spellbomb
-2 Bridge
-1 Skite
-1 Shackles
Kept a land heavy hand with a Brutality for interaction, Thopter Foundry and a Pentad. Killed his Etherium Shaper with Brutality and checked his hand, played Pentad and topdecked into Whir. Easy win from there with Thopters.

>>55277931
lantern runs inventors Fair so I doubt it

>>55277692
Silvergill Adept is both a cantrip and a body for the same mana. Why would you ever run this?

>>55278234
Lantern starts at 14 like the rest of the meta, right?

>>55278392
Lantern has a painless manabase so they can utilize all of that total. At worst they start at 18 because of seize.

>>55278656
Hmm, guess I'll probably need the Grim Lavamancer as well then

>>55274625
>If it gets pathed its an even trade

Are you stupid? No it's fucking not. Your opponent GOT A FREE EXTRA LAND OF HIS CHOICE put on the battlefield TURN 1. It's an effect so powerful it doesn't even exist as a spell in modern. You literally two-for-oned yourself and gave your opponent a handjob for letting you do it.

How the hell you can think that getting your idiot trees pathed, bolted, or pushed while giving your opponent ramp and mana fix "trades even" is beyond me.

Flat out if you play this, and it gets removed first turn, you will lose against any compedative deck baring the active intervention of the hand of god.

Mirror Gallery in 9chad
Y/N?

I'm thinking of building a cheaper fetch-intensive Deck, so I'm torn between Burn or Zoo (Revolt).
The thing is, in your opinion, Revolt Zoo a good Deck when compared to Burn? Burn is a tier 1 and always will be, but I find the idea of creatures more appealing than spells, while also allowing me some future changes (like adding Tarmogoyf in the future (since they keep getting cheaper) or even build the very expensive Big Zoo).
But still it's a lot of money to drop (although the different cards between the two aren't that expensive) so I wanted to be sure in my purchase.
Any opinion would be extremely helpful.

>>55280216
N

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brap

>>55277692

Unfortunate that this is a bit of a nonbo with prowess, UR aggro would be this card's home

>>55281008
Attack, then cast it before damage after blocks

>>55281041
you'll never be good at card evaluation if you can't even read

>>55281065
Fuck, that's way worse than I though

Is Brimaz good out of the board in Death and Taxes. Love that it doesn't die to bolt and can attack into 3/X creatures, but maybe it should just be another Mirran Crusader. Thoughts?

>>55281084
yeah it's not like a Careful Consideration effect taken further, it's just bad.

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Need some spicy red or colorless tech to build around this fuckin thing

>>55281578
shiet give me a list famalama
this seems like a job for rowdy crew, unless you're on tron then it's a bit less exciting
if you are doing a tron package, I'd probably try as many selfmill artifacts like shriekhorn and maybe timepiece into some big drazi and some medium drazi like thoughtknot with the temple package.
if you want to trigger gate, street wraith might be cool, even in a tron shell it gives you a gift target without having to commit much

also, sundering titan

>>55281008
maybe that ninjadelvershoal meme is the optimal home

>>55281578
>red or colourless tech
Inferno Titan is an easy choice, the haste meaning you get 3 damage divided as you choose, twice.
Utvara Hellkite is also a spicy meme.

Basically just look for cards with strong etb or if you want to meme hard, strong 'on attack' triggers.
Why red and colourless specifically? You could just run the deck like a meme re animator that keeps on giving.

>>55282101
>this seems like a job for rowdy crew
>there are people that still think rowdy crew is playable in any deck, ever
Get the fuck out of here you retard.

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4/5 doctors say this is the best Island ever printed

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>>55282434
This is my favorite, though it looks a bit brighter on MTGO

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>>55282434

>>55282545
was gonna post, thanks anon.

>>55271187
>what is bolt the bird

seriously don't play this, here is why
1) fetch any land an opponent may need in their hand but now get onto the battlefield instead
2) you ramp your opponent by a turn, 2 mana turn 1 leads to VERY busted things ESPECIALLY AGAINST BURN
3) thins your opponents deck, minor but true
4) if they mull to 6 you gave them a virtual 7 card starting hand again.
5) you lose temp really hard
6) you will lose any aggro matchup because of this card since your opponent is now a turn ahead

>>55282434
2003 dci promo island the best.

>>55271187
Don't be fucking stupid, anon
That card is awful and can easily speed up someone's clock by a turn (it would mine), so unless you want to try and race a 2 turn clock, I'd recommend against it

>>55282602
disgusting

>>55282424
don't smack talk rowdy crew

>cast p&k, they kill it, you keep thopters
>cast littycrew, they kill it, you've cantripped anyways

and the RAUNCHY >4 mana 5/5

Rowdy Crew is effin' LIT! the R stands for R rated, know what I mean bros?

>>55282795
you have the shittiest taste of all time.

>>55282869
>cast meme crew, discard your gas because random, left with a 4 mana 3/3 and a hand of lands
Wow so value.
Stop being ironically retarded, the card is unplayable.

>>55282932
>cast empty handed
there now it's a cantrip

>>55282795
I run the full set of Chippy basics in Esper Draw-Go and there's nothing you can do about it.

>>55282918
>>55282963
>meme lands
Just leave.

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>>55282932
I unironically love rowdy crew and you can fuck right off

Gonna be RAUNCHY in a Mardu memerange with Lilly, Lingering Souls and 2 Rowdy Crew as the Meme Rhino equivalent and you can keep hating on the littycrew be don't be surprised when they be shinning on ya =P

>>55282948
>cast a better card instead that has immediate impact.

>>55282948
a 3/3 for 4 that cantrips isn't very good though

>>55283036
>dies to karn
nice job Olivia

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>no legacy general
>anyways mfw i blind therapy opponent's only threat and kill him with a 1/1 while he draws discard, lands, and leylines

I'll probably get a lot of shit for this, but I'm genuinely curious.
Has the concept of mana fixing via fetches and shocks ever been considered from a balance standpoint? I mean I know every competitive deck runs them and banning anything is generally considered bad, but I always thought the general rule in any mtg format was the more colors you have the more versatile your deck is, but the less consistent as well. Other than maybe a stompy deck here and there or some budget brew I never ever ever seen mono colors anymore. I've come to the conclusion it's because in moderns current state, you can pretty much have the consistency of a mono deck with all the versatility of multi-colored decks at the cost of 3 life, maybe 6 if you get particularly screwed. 6 is a pretty hefty, but at this point I almost never see a point to running mono color decks. Is this a problem?

tl;dr:
Given how easy mana fixing is with fetch/shocks is it ever worth it to play mono anymore, and is that something we should fix? Should every competitive deck HAVE to be multi colored?

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>>55283113
>play legacy on MTGO
>people are wankers who never admit defeat
just concede you blue fucker

>>55283500
Death and Taxes, Skred, 8Rack, Martyr-Proc, and Merfolk all play well as mono-colored decks. Merfolk has been a strong T2 deck in the past, and Mono W Death and Taxes got top 8 in a GP and an SCG Classic back-to-back not too long ago.

>>55283500
Eldrazitron isn't multi-color

>>55283500
Ban fetches.

>>55282993
>meme lands
Not an argument.

>>55283500
>Given how easy mana fixing is with fetch/shocks is it ever worth it to play mono anymore
To make mono worthwhile modern needs two things:
1. Bullshit busted high cost monocolour cards, a good example being things like Geralf's Messenger or Phyrexian Obliterator. You need to give people a pay-off for running mono colour and giving their decks huge weaknesses, like how mono-black decks can't interact with non-creature permanents outside of making their opponent discard them.
2. More non-basic land hate. I mean Wastelands, Back to Basics, Price of Progress, the lot. People need to be punished hard for running a ton of non-basics. Blood Moon is a start but it only helps mono-red. Other colours need non-basic hate too if you want mono decks in those colours.

Basically you need to create mono-colour cards so busted that their strength outweighs the utility of adding one or two more colours while making sure they can't be put in decks that cheat around that restriction by having every shock in their deck produce that card's colour.

>>55274952
I've never played modern and have only been into MtG on and off over the years.
Would a Janky ornithopter/memnite/mana dorks deck for getting this flipped on turn 3 with overrun spells and effects be any good are are there too many sweepers in the format?

>>55283793
That's an option too but I feel like we're reinventing the wheel. I always thought that the way to balance multi-color vs mono color was to make a balancing scale between variety and consistency.
>>55283780
Usually you want to keep away from banning things to keep the format more open but to keep the above balance that might be an option.
>>55283720
I'll give you that.
>>55283692
Yeah, I'm not saying it can't be done, but my point is that it feels like the initial risk that everyone learns early in their introduction to mtg (more colors = less consistency) is more or less completely bypassed for roughly 3 life. You'll never really be waiting on X color mana you'll pretty much always have it.

>>55283925
When I first started playing mtg were immediately using multiple colors. We got our cards from packs so each of us couldn't really build a full deck from 1 color. That was Ravnica though, so the existence of multi colored cards probably pushed us in that direction anyway.

>>55283976
Mhmm, yeah I'm not saying that beginners only play with one color, though the free decks they give out at game stores are usually made to be mono against eachother (duo to make 60). Whether you started off playing two colors or not it's still a pretty early lesson, and a given, that if you use multiple colors you're putting yourself at risk for not having the correct mana combination to play certain cards. Beginners learn that certain colors fall short in certain ways, but in order to use other colors to make up for those shortcomings you have to make sacrifices.

I just feel like in modern, with mana fixing, that major sacrificed associated with playing multi-colored decks is pretty much gone, and it really only costed 3 life to do it.

>>55283925
>Yeah, I'm not saying it can't be done, but my point is that it feels like the initial risk that everyone learns early in their introduction to mtg (more colors = less consistency) is more or less completely bypassed for roughly 3 life.
Multi colored decks are less consistent, though, and the life can matter in certain matter a lot in certain matchups. It's just not enough to make running mono colored decks worth it in most archetypes. This isn't really surprising, either. Goodstuff aggro/midrange/control piles have always played the most colors they could get away with. In Standard this was usually 2 sometimes 3, in Modern it's sometimes 2, usually 3, and in Legacy it's often 4 colors because of Deathrite Shaman.

Reminder that Iconic Masters will start to be spoiled at around 10AM EST, Friday, and should be completely spoiled by the end of the day.

Anyone hoping for something in particular? Seeing as we're all tribal themed this season, I wouldn't mind seeing Cavern reprinted again. Maybe Legends Bolas with his FTV artwork.

>>55284139
Port reprint on MTGO
Cryptic with better art

>>55284100
>Multi colored decks are less consistent, though

Yeah I feel ya', but they're not nearly as inconsistent as they were before things like fetch. The fact that you almost never have to be on the draw for a specific color kind of trespasses into that mono level of consistency. While mono-color might still technically be more consistent, an argument can be made for the deck-thinning properties of fetches as well. I guess what I have a problem with is that it seems like (without fetches) the differences in consistency scale so much better with the amount of variety a deck has, but now (even if it turns out they're slightly less consistent than mono) the benefits of multi-colored decks outweigh any benefits offered by mono pretty heavily.

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>>55284139
M O X O P A L
O
X
O
P
A
L

>>55284157
>While mono-color might still technically be more consistent, an argument can be made for the deck-thinning properties of fetches as well.
Deck thinning from fetches has a provably insignificant effect unless you plan to draw basically all of your deck during the game, which only matters to certain combo decks or very durdly control decks, and in the case of the control decks, the possibility of drawing dead fetches with no targets is probably worse.

>I guess what I have a problem with is that it seems like (without fetches) the differences in consistency scale so much better with the amount of variety a deck has, but now (even if it turns out they're slightly less consistent than mono) the benefits of multi-colored decks outweigh any benefits offered by mono pretty heavily.
INN-RTR Standard didn't have fetches and was dominated by three color decks of every possible color combination and archetype, probably even moreso than Modern. It's not a problem with fetches, it's a problem with any halfway decent dual lands. Even without good duals, if a color combo has good enough synergy, people will just force it anyway. Look at old BG Madness decks.

>>55284139
I thought it was supposed to go unspoiled until the release?

>>55284139
Here are some money, non-RL cards that desperately need a decent reprinting by now.
>Rishadan Port
>Mana Drain
>Imperial Seal along with most of P3K
>Land Tax
>Power/Transmute Artifact
>Rhystic Study
>Buncha crap from Kamigawa that's mostly expensive due to scarcity, like Asuza, Michiko, etc.
>Blightsteel Colossus, lotta the Praetors
>TNN, Flusterstorm, etc.
>Almost all of the stuff that was already in MMA, and a lot of the good mythics and rares from MM2.

>>55284228
They're doing limited events at hascon with them, so while they're not going to be spoilered, the cards themselves will be out

>>55284266
>>Rhystic Study
jesus those things were like 10c when I got them, EDH has exploded

>>55284266
>Power/Transmute Artifact
those are on the reserved list

>>55284266
Tbh TNN should be banned in Legacy and never reprinted so speculators can play Wall Street.

>>55284209
I mean, I'm not trying to say that multi-colored would be useless without fetch/shocks. What I'm saying is that a major appeal of limiting a deck to a single color was to never have to worry about having the wrong mana combination. Ask anyone who runs a multi colored deck how often they're stuck on the draw waiting for a specific color of mana. It never happens anymore at least not really. So what's the point of ever limiting yourself to a single color anymore? Aside from budget reasons.

>>55274952
Cradle isn't fucking nuts because it makes creature 5+, it's nuts because it makes creatures 3-5.

I'm not asking for a direct Cradle reprint for Modern because that's ridiculous to ask for. But a Cradle you have to pay 3-fucking mana for that draws you a dork that doesn't make you any more proof against Wraths is complete garbage.

>>55284321
>So what's the point of ever limiting yourself to a single color anymore? Aside from budget reasons.
Additional consistency, painless manabase, immunity to Blood Moon, loads of utility lands. That's why decks like Death and Taxes or Maryr-Proc, which can benefit from a splash, will often remain mono-White. Getting to play on curve all the time with utility lands like Ghost Quarter and Cavern of Souls is really good.

Like I said before, most aggro, midrange, and control piles need all their colors to function well (although that's become less of an issue recently now that Black has a removal spell on the level of Path and Bolt), so they run a bunch of fetches, shocks, and other duals. That's just Magic.

>>55269110
I'm lost, where's the thread for non competitive modern?

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>>55284406

>>55284381
D&T has arguably more popular black and green splashes than the mono version though and they're a special case which doesn't run fetches because arbiter anyway so if you don't run another color, it's often because you don't want to shoot yourself in the foot, mono white is just way more popular in Legacy.
Martyr is based around cards that synergy with white cards and plains so naturally it is mono, but not because it wants to limit itself to one color, but because it can't splash without hurting its specific cards.

>>55275262
>>55275327
How do "lords" work?

>>55282993
>insulting the best artist in the game, Chippy.
Nah fuck off. Next you'll try to insult Seb.

>>55282434
All Lorwyn lands are great.

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>>55282434

>>55281578
Why would you use this when the Sacrab God is infinitely better?

>>55284471
I'd be going multiple colors in Martyr Proc if there were actually good cards in any color against tron.

>>55284523
Gaddock Teeg? Unified Will?

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>>55282434
>>55282545
>>55282602
>>55282745
>>55284494
>>55284511
These are the best islands

>>55284551
4th is the only one I'd use.

>>55284471
I know, I play both decks.

My point was that the mono versions are still viable because even though splashing is beneficial to both decks (Martyr gains Orzhov Charm and some other utility cards in black, or Nahiri, Helix and SB Moons in red; you already know the DnT splashes), there is an upside to being mono. If there was no upside at all then you would only see the splash versions. It's not just a case of budget, either. Theau Mery's GP list costs more than an average BW DnT list despite being mono white because of the Wayfarer/Horizon Canopy package.

>>55284534
Nah, none of these solve the core problem with the deck. It's slow. Extremely slow. You win by setting up a 7 mana per turn loop that gains you a shitload of life, more than most decks can deal per turn, but tron doesn't give a shit about life totals. Teeg doesn't stop ulamog and Ostone, counters can't keep back worldbreaker forever.
I'm going to go brew a UW version with 4 Giest of Saint Traft in the side and Spreading Seas main though, but I'm not hopeful.

>>55284523
Blood Moon.
That's it.

>>55284512
I can have it out by turn 3/4 and red cards have more aggression. Also this gives haste, and doesn't cost mana to activate.

>>55284588
Oh cool. Then I can lose game 1, 75% of the time lose game 2 because I can't have 40 blood moons in my deck, but that 25% of the time I do win game 2 then lose game 3 because I'm on the draw and I'd trying to beat a karn with 1/1s.

>>55284523
Best way to beat Tron is actually to stay Mono White. Run 4 GQ, 1 Tec Edge, 2 Wayfarer, 1 Crucible main, and then Stony Silence and Surgical Extraction in the side.

Wr Proc with Nahiri package and 4 SB Moons will probably do alright, too.

>>55282101
I'm starting testing with looting and cathartic reunion. So far for the creatures I'm looking at

Insolent neonate
Inferno titan
Dragon whisperer
Char rumbler
Spikeshot elder
Combat celebrant
Stormbreath dragon

>>55284595
The Scarab God has a lower CMC, activated ability is instant speed, its almost impossible to get rid of, upkeep trigger gets past blockers and let's you filter your draws, lastly it's a big body on the board.

>>55283500
Consider this: all the non retarded games use two piles where to draw from, one for the energy and one for the spells.

I'm sure you can find your answer now.

>>55284626
>>>55284626
>Run 4 GQ, 1 Tec Edge, 2 Wayfarer, 1 Crucible main, and then Stony Silence and Surgical Extraction in the side
I've run pretty much this before but with only 1 Wayfarer and it's still miserable most of the time.
I've seen the nahiri package do decently though. I once played mono white martyr against mardu nahiri martyr and I got hit by emrakul 3 times then milled my opponent out after hitting it with surgical.

>>55284512
because it doesn't cost mana for each eternal and because the haste lets you abuse attack triggers on things like the titans
>using God-Pharaoh's Gift to reanimate and swing with a Grave Titan for 12 power on board over 5 bodies

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Here's something kind of spicy for sweepers. I used to run this out of the sideboard in a Vengevine list I had with Slitherheads (cool both for targeting the CMC you want, and jumping past it past 3, although now I run it on it's own as a one of in Gifts.

>>55284155
>with better art
What's wrong with the original art? It's one of the few good art of modern magic, it's very evocative.

>>55284689
I mostly hate the art on the full art version, but I still want a full art version. I don't consider the regular art particularly amazing either, but it's ok.

>>55284266
>and a lot of the good mythics and rares from MM2.
Please no, I've just opened a great MM15 box.
>>55284308
What's TNN?

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>>55284726

>>55284734
Why are Commander cards even legal in Legacy?

>>55284783
All black border cards not on the ban list are legal in legacy.

Just activate Scarab God on your opponents end step.

>>55284877
>Just counter everything your opponent does and activate Scarab God on end step
The new face of control.

>>55284783
That is not a Commander card; that is a Legacy card they did not want to print in a Standard legal set. See: Flusterstorm.

>>55284979
"Counter everything and eternalize every creature"
Hm. Doesn't roll off the tongue like "rev for 15" does. Needs work.

>>55281578
trash for treasure

>>55274848
Niggah you dumb. You don't die to titan you died to him getting two valakuts your deck is bad you should feel bad and move on with your life

>>55285030
Nothing will replace counter everything and rev for 15 desu. It's one of the better memes from this general

Ponza players need to start running 1 Temple Garden to bring in strong white hate in matchups where you take Blood Moon out. Affinity for example is perfect, as is something like Dredge.

>>55269556
I have Snapcasters, Chalices, and Scapeshifts, as long as they're doublesleeved, nobody knows. Been using them for a few months now.

>>55285146
Don't feel bad because I'm not a virgin like you

>>55285262
To this day I wonder if that guy was serious or trolling

>>55285678
As adamant as some people are about their brews around here and as much as they actively fight against any advice given, I think he was serious.

Is bolt still good right now? I only see burn players using it

>>55285772
>still
Will something that deals damage for free ever be bad?

>>55285772
It's still as good as before, it's just push is better. In fact, push usually kills even more things than bolt did

>>55285772
No and yes. One the one hand a lot of "decks to beat" have a lot creatures with high toughness. Death's Shadow, Tasigur, Angler, reality smasher, etc. However, there are still plenty of decks that have smaller creatures. DnT, Elves, Collected Company decks, Affinity and more. Bolt isn't the "catch most" removal it used to be right now, but it's still decent.

Want to get back into this game after yu-gi-oh stint because all my local stores stopped supporting it.
I never played this game in any way but very casually and can't even find my old cards. How much freedom do I have for a pretty casual locals deck without being absolutely curb-stomped by the no fun allowed metawhores?

>>55284663
I looked at it, but it takes a full 6 turns to get out unless I splash green. There is a very nice red card that can get this out with four mana. Also, the activation is free for god pharaohs. My meta is all aggro decks, so I don't have any time to wait and then sink into this card.

However I will concede that scarab is infinitely better as a card in other situations, and probably for what this deck does. I'm a cheap fuck though

>>55286426
That depends completely on your local game store and meta. Some places you can get away with budget decks or fun brews of the meta is basically the same. Other times you have a shop full of GP grinders and have to play a meta deck if you want to get anywhere. It just depends.

>>55285831
Bolt sucks ass against DnT

>>55286987
>kills everything but resto angel
>sucks ass
But the good news is that DNT as a whole sucks ass vs the whole field so it balances out.

>>55287093
Found the Tron player
DnT pretty much against affinity pre sideboard

>>55287134
>can't even formulate a sentence
Wannabe Legacy players, everyone.

>>55287146
What DnT player shat on your plate you salty manchild?

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>>55282434
>>55282545
>>55282602
>>55284511
>>55284551
>year of our lord 2K+17
>not using best island

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>canopy reprint
As someone who doesn't own any: Fuck yes.

Sorry for you blokes who dropped $90 per card.

>>55287437
>>55287427
Fuck yeah
Source for this?

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>>55287450
People livetweeting it from Hascon.

https://twitter.com/hashtag/mtgima?f=tweets&vertical=default&src=hash

>>55287481
Cute Angel

>>55287427
>>55287437
Good shit mang. Time to build Primetime

>>55287481
>horizon canopy reprint

fucking finally.

>>55287481
I hope they also reprinted manlands

>>55287427
>horizon canopy
>at rare

jesus. what do you guys think it will drop to pricewise?

If I deflecting palm'd a searing blaze, would I be correct in assuming that the damage will still hit my creature while only the damage that was to hit me is redirected?

>>55282795
t. tar-eating disease-ridden Jund barbarian

>>55282869
Except the discard is random.
If it wasn't random, or was discard-draw, then it would be good. On top of that, your opponent could just Bolt it to prevent it from becoming a 5/5, so even if you get the most favorable discard you still wasted 4 mana and lost a creature. You better be having flashback, reanimation, or recursion, which thankfully Rakdos/Grixis/Izzet has a lot of.
If anybody can somehow make Rowdy Crew or Old-Growth Dryads playable, I'm all ears.

>>55284139
Glimpse the Unthinkable to please the casuals.
Ad Nauseam because it represents one of the most ridiculous yet highly functional combos in Magic (drawing your entire deck).
All of the above apply because of the guy's face in the cards.

>>55287543
I hope it drops like Venser
>From 20$ to 2$

Can you imagine a world with Canopy at 8$?

Hellkite and Lord of the Pit are in.

>>55287543
My guess is $50~

>>55287658

OH GOD FUCKING DAMN IT THESE CARDS SUCK

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AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

HOLY SHIT

>reprinting every chinaman counterfeit since 2015

>>55287677
>>55287678
This isn't even legal in our format, why are you spamming this here?

>>55287737
Because it's fucking cool you dingus.

>>55287677
It's beautiful. My pants are soaked now. Thanks.

>>55287737
Shut up autismo

>>55287750
>>55287793
>Hurr durr lets hijack the modern thread to spam spoilers that aren't even playable in modern
Go create your own thread you mongs.

>>55287933
>hurr durr let me be autistic about people posting MTG shit on a MTG thread
Neck yourself

>>55287933
>post literally one card not playable in modern
>it's one of the best/iconic cards ever printed, and it's back in a set for the first time in 23 years
Boy what a fucking crime.

>>55287557
Yeah.

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>>55284266
>Mana Drain

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I like this a lot

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fucking finally.

REPRINT PORT REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

((((Investors)))) BTFO

>>55288669
Same. Scry 1 in your upkeep adds up quick, and a repeatable source of card advantage on a land is great.

Any Lantern players here? Burnfag here, just found out I have a 90% chance of facing Lantern tonight and I really need to know how the matchup goes. I've never played against it.

>>55289940
If they play maindeck Leyline you're fucked, otherwise just bolt face and sideboard 4 Revelry. Eidolon first as always, Boros Charming to keep it alive if they point a Decay at it until they have their whole setup going is almost always more worth it than deal 4, since they usually play 2 removal maindeck only and they need to cast Lantern+Bridge+n millrocks to have a chance, plus they need to dump their hand so might have to take damage from Mox Opals/Stirrings later on etc. Save fetchlands if you can (after all Searing Blaze does nothing so no landfall needed) for an extra chance to draw burn under the mill lock.

>>55290035
>since they usually play 2 removal maindeck only
This is wrong since Lantern usually plays some combination of brutality (gets you hellbent in a pinch) and decay. This is especially true of the leyline version that needs brutality to discard drawn leylines to get hellbent.

>>55290035
>>55290082
Thanks for the tips. I'm kinda nervous with this matchup, but I'll try to clear my head and stay calm.

>>55290159
The most important thing is to not get tilted and scoop game 1 early enough if you're locked out. Though if the player seems anxious making him play it out while just passing turns yourself can work as psychological warfare.

Which ajani is best to base a deck around? Should I run ajani's aid with it?

>>55290159
If the lock isn't established, pump out as much damage as you can with creatures before bridge drops. When bridge comes down bolt that fucker to death

>>55290159
There is a cheap creature from zendikar that burns an opponent for 2 each upkeep if they have less than 2 cards in hand. Worth looking into.

Rate my shitbrew

4 Epochrasite
4 Akki Blizzard-Herder
4 Greater Gargadon

4 Smallpox
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Death Cloud

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Fatal Push

4 Talisman of Indulgence
2 Talisman of Impulse
2 Talisman of Dominence

4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Swamp
2 Mountain
4 Dragonskull Summit

>>55290286
>Which ajani is best to base a deck around?
Angry Ajaini is the best Ajani

>ajani's aid
Eww god no, that shit is garbage.

>>55291601
Too high mana cost for little use I assume.
Is angry Ajani caller of the pride? Would I build white/green or pure white with him, my goal was the latter.

>>55291835
Former***

How's mono-red burn in modern? I know Boros Burn is in the top meta list, but I'm too poor to get arid mesas and other fetchlands, so I'd wanted to keep it mono red.

>>55291982
Eh, not horrible. Sb will be awful tho

>>55291835
Ajani Vengeant

>>55292039
Well, you can get around sideboarding on game 2 with burn even if they do play chalice. Or are you speaking of the deck's actual sideboard?

>>55269359
Literally puting this deck together today. I wonder if it's any competitive. It sure made my playgroup super salty.

>>55291982
It's okay. If you run into Leyline of Sanctity you're fucked though

How viable is to make a deck centered in the isocron scepter?

>>55293057
At pro level? Not at all
FNM? Who knows. Meta and powerlevel depends on the store. Just build it. If it works, sweet. If not, well at least you have a good casual deck

I'm a pretty new player, and I purchased this deck not to long ago that I made along with the help of others. Thoughts? I have some money to spend, what upgrades should I purchase? I'm thinking about getting Thoughtseizes when the prices drop after the reprints.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/670095#paper
2 Bone Picker
2 Desecration Demon
2 Dismember
2 Duress
3 Fatal Push
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
4 Geralf's Messenger
3 Ghost Quarter
4 Gifted Aetherborn
4 Glint-Sleeve Siphoner
4 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Phyrexian Arena
20 Swamp
2 Victim of Night

2 Duress
3 Flaying Tendrils
2 Geth's Verdict
2 Go for the Throat
3 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Smallpox
1 Victim of Night

>>55293057
Jeskai Scepter is actually pretty viable as an FNM deck. Abrupt Decay will make you sad, but Boros Charm is your friend.

>>55293317
Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
Definitely 4x Thoughtseize 4x Bloodghast 4x Relentless Dead
Dark Confidant is better than arena, but that doesn't seem so necessary

>>55293346
>>55293137
Thanks, I don't know why but I love the Scepter

>>55293453
what cards should I cut for those, do you think? Other than the obvious ones like Nykthos instead of swamps and Thoughtseize instead of Duress.

Thoughts on soul sisters? Was looking for a budget deck that doesn't get shut down by a single leyline like Red burn or Dredge do

>No Legacy general
Thank god that formats dying

>>55293621
Desecration Demon and Bone Picker, maybe some copies of Aetherborn
Siphoner and Arena if you want to run Dark Confidant
Phyrexian Obliterator would also be a solid choice for the deck I think

>>55293057
I lost to Scepter+Lightning Helix in a poor man's burn shell once with Affinity, to be fair it involved a lot of flooding on my part. You can win some games but like not really if people are playing actual decks at your local's.

>>55293774
Phyrexian Obliterator is probably my favorite card. I'd love to have a playset, but they're so damn expensive.

How is knightfall in the current meta?

>>55293769
It's the best format though. Just horribly mismanaged like everything else under WotC control. The general should die though, it's infested with namefaggotry.

>>55293835
Eh, just wait for the obvious reprint.

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>>55293891

imo it should be well positioned

it presents a very fast clock even compared to other fast decks, it's consistent with dorks/coco, and bant has a lot of good sideboard options

>>55293725
It's a fine budget deck, it can also be upgraded to Norin Sisters in the future if you want to be a bit more competitive.

>>55294090
Is it possible to run it without nobles? I'm getting back into magic and most of the card prices are easy to swallow, but that $60 per noble is a tad much to start with.

How is Dross Golem in mono black control?

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>>55294141

guaranteed knight on T2 is very important, I wouldn't run less than 8 dorks

I guess you could use pic related but hierarchs are honestly impossible to replace in a bant shell

>>55294141
Noble is pretty essential. A turn one dork that buffs your other threats and can actually be useful as a topdeck because of it. If you absolutely cannot afford noble you can run birbs and pilgrim butt the ideal combination it Noble + birb.

>>55293891
It has the problem of everything else in the format is just more powerful if you're not going balls deep on the combo turn 3 and it can't grind as well as your normal coco piles.

>>55294269
>it can't grind as well as your normal coco piles.
This is just wrong, it grinds just as well as any other coco deck provided you aren't playing the druid combo version.

>>55287481
im going to marry resto angel!

>>55292903
It's pretty much the only difference between the Burn decks. For each color you add and the money it costs to buy the land base, you hedge against certain matchups. You "pay" for sideboarding options.

- White primarily gets you Helix and Firewalker for the mirror and Deflecting Palm for the reanimation strategies
- Green gets you Destructive Revelry, which beats Leyline

You get other cards for those colors but the key cards are those ones. You just have to accept that if you pay less money you'll be exposed to a greater part of the metagame although if you ask me Burn is so fucking high-powered sometimes all that money to expand the colors for those extra wins doesn't feel like it's worth it when you often just crush with a Goblin Guide into Eidolon play.

>>55271187
I'd only use that card in a GW deck with Leonin Arbiter and the like. Otherwise I wouldn't use it.

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>>55294372
Why not marry best waifu instead?

>>55294385
>reanimation strategies
There's only 2 decks that do this in modern and neither are prevalent. Palm can be brought in against anything that's got big beaters or shit like bogles

>>55273690
Did you even read the spoiler?

>gaunt, hairy white trash guy wearing a MAGA hat, communist obama half shirt, and ripped sweatpants low on the waist so you can see his stained white underwear comes into my LGS for FNM.
>playing cheerios
>looses both, drops
>last loss was to a hispanic player

lmao

>>55294385
Has A. Command fallen from grace?

I still play Kitty burn so i don't really pay attention to the meta

>>55295535
You have to go back

>>55295651
Yeah. Rarely need 8 Skullcracks and the fetch shocking hurts against fast decks.

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I like it

>>55296046
I like that art. It's cool that we know exactly what the spell itself looks like

>>55295651

No it still goes through Leyline of Sanctity which is important from time to time. At least in my local meta but dunno about yours.

>>55294385
>and Deflecting Palm for the reanimation strategies
and bogles
Fuck bogles

A handful of my friends have decided to start playing magic again and I'm the only one in that group that hasn't played in the past
Where do I start, is one deck builder kit good enough for kitchen table play with some occasional FNM, and which one should I get?

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>>55294412
Yes, Tenshi is really cute.

>>55295651
Retarded Homosexuals think it has. Real burn players (like myself) still use it. Skullcrack is old and busted, only does good against Soul Sisters, and Soul Sisters gets hosed harder by Satyr Firedancer than it does by Skullcrack. Atarka's command allows burn to be lethal on turn 3, Boros burn only gets that kind of lethality if your opponent goes Fetch-Shock twice and has no interaction.

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>>55270890
Dredge has never been a real contender

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Long-time EDH fag here looking to brew Modern decks to (eventually) buy into, and a few cards/combos that really catch my eye.

>Coco feat. Renegade Rallier
I like the consistency this provides. Being able to dig up whatever I need, whenever I need it, all based around a fetch or something else is great. I've wanted to do it since that one time I built Vengevine, since I couldn't actually use Rallier to get Vengevine.

>Devoted Druid/Vizier combo
A good fit with the above, and infinite mana is always fun. It seems to be popping up a lot as of late, and I can get behind it. Also, see below for some of the things I want to do.

>Hidden Herbalists, possibly Rhonas's Last Stand
Herbalists is fun ever since the Vengevine deck, and I'll probably get roasted for wanting to run Rhonas's Last Stand, but I think it's possible to do. A 5/4 is a 5/4.

>Revolt in general, Greenbelt Rampager/ Aethergeode Miner
Greenbelt can at least be an emergency Revolt trigger, not sure if miner is worth a damn though. These are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head as far as enablers go.

>>55296160
Deck builder's toolkit is fine for kitchen table. I wouldn't try to take it to FNMs though. First I'd find out which format your friends are interested in, then find out which format your local LGS does for FNM. Also ask about other nights, as there might be other formats happening.

You should research the different formats, and find out which you're most interested in. I'm going to go ahead and recommend Standard as a cheap and easy jumping on point, and branch out to others from there.
whatsinstandard.com

Once you have a good handle on the game, check out Modern, Commander, and draft/sealed.

I want to build something out of Aether Revolt Ajani to get into standard. Should I build for stacking tokens or revolt?

>>55296464
You should go and ask in the standard thread.

>>55296482
There isn't one up right now.

>>55296275
>coco rallier
CoCo decks, in my experience, run best with 5-8 dorks and a bunch of 3-drops (especially flash 3-drops). Filling the deck with 2-drops just makes CoCo feel underwhelming. Rallier seems best as a curve topper in an Abzan Hatebears/D&T/Aristocrats list based around Vial rather than CoCo. Could be a fun brew either way though.

>druid/vizier
Go for it. Just be aware that everybody knows about it and will play around it.

>Rhonas's last stand
>a 5/4 is a 5/4
And it effectively turns your opponent's removal into time walk. By all means, shitbrew to your heart's content, just remember to pack a lot of 1-drops for your horrible turn 3.

>revolt
Push is a good card. Don't get too excited about others.
>These are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head as far as enablers go.
Think outside of standard. Fetches are the only enablers you really need.

>>55296501
then make one nigger.

>>55296292
I know the friend that has pushed the most is mainly interested in draft events, and I already have way too much money tied up in warhammer and Pokemon to invest too much into this, so I'll probably buy the one toolkit and then do drafts
I guess I know even less than I thought I did, I honestly thought modern and standard format were the same thing
I started playing Pokemon specifically because I didn't want to play magic, now I have to do more research for a card game than I did for my entire degree

How many lands should you run to confidently get land 3 on turn 3?

>>55296834
Are you unfamiliar with hypergeometric calculators?

>>55296973
yes

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>>55294412
My new friend Nahiri introduced her to me. She's too nice. She even lets me win when we play games, but I love her all the same. Too bad the moon geek and a fucking hippie sealed her away, and I can't find Nahiri.

>>55296991
The hypergeometric distribution is a statistics tool for asking the questions like "I have 60 cards, and 20 lands, if I draw 9, how likely is it that I will have 3 or more lands?"

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=hypergeometric+probability&rawformassumption=%7B%22F%22,+%22HypergeometricProbabilities%22,+%22n%22%7D+-%3E%229%22&rawformassumption=%7B%22F%22,+%22HypergeometricProbabilities%22,+%22nsucc%22%7D+-%3E%2220%22&rawformassumption=%7B%22F%22,+%22HypergeometricProbabilities%22,+%22ntot%22%7D+-%3E%2260%22&rawformassumption=%7B%22F%22,+%22HypergeometricProbabilities%22,+%22x%22%7D+-%3E%223%22

If you plug those in, you get about a %63.7 chance of that happening (you get that by adding the x > 3 and x = 3 parts together).

Change the number of lands and you'll get different probabilities of success.

Once you get the idea down, you can use the same calculation for any similar idea, e.g. creatures instead of lands, how many copies of a 4-of you get, etc.

>>55297098
>http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=hypergeometric+probability&rawformassumption=%7B%22F%22,+%22HypergeometricProbabilities%22,+%22n%22%7D+-%3E%229%22&rawformassumption=%7B%22F%22,+%22HypergeometricProbabilities%22,+%22nsucc%22%7D+-%3E%2220%22&rawformassumption=%7B%22F%22,+%22HypergeometricProbabilities%22,+%22ntot%22%7D+-%3E%2260%22&rawformassumption=%7B%22F%22,+%22HypergeometricProbabilities%22,+%22x%22%7D+-%3E%223%22
This seems really troublesome to include mulligans, since I'll never keep a hand that has one or less lands

>>55297144
So, if you wanted to, you could do sample size=7 and number of type I's=2 to get the probability of a keepable hand, then do something with conditional probability to find P(3 lands in first 9 cards|2 lands in first 7 cards).

Not quite sure how you'd do mulligans, however.

I remember creating a little program a while ago that would just shuffle a million times and count how many times it got a good land count, you could try doing something like that and have it consider mulligans as well if you wanted to.

>>55297253
like I said, troublesome

I was hoping that someone else had already crunched the numbers on something like land 3

>>55296834
>>55296834
60 lands
Confidently isn't a math my dude, I'd take a 51% odds confidently.
There was some autist theory regarding X/61 lands and running 61 cards in order for some sweetspot to be had, seemed silly but if you really want exacly 85% chance of 3 lands turn 3 you could do that.

here's a neat graph thing too
https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/how-many-lands-do-you-need-to-consistently-hit-your-land-drops/

lands are really fuckin tough to tune and it's mostly just gut feeling guessing at first, then playing a shitton and you'll notice if you eyeball'd it wrong.

>>55297304
>https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/how-many-lands-do-you-need-to-consistently-hit-your-land-drops/
>confidence isn't math
>just estimate
What are you? Black?

Is Souls Sisters a good starting point in Modern? Want to try the format but all the other decks are more expensive that what I can pay and I already have at least half the SS deck

>>55297341
You do realize that statistics is really just estimating in a rigorous way, right?

>tfw seriously considering playing Ravenous Rats
There has to be a better version of "2 drop that fucks up your opponents hand"

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>>55297341
if you have shit like looting, serum, borderposts, you have a difficult time calculating. determining the best number of lands will always be striking a balance between screw and flood.
If you've estimate a landcount, play a shitton, then trim/add a land (rinse repeat) you'll end up with a confident percentage.

>>55297506
maybe rotting rats but that's even worse.
brain maggot type effects aren't quite the same, as they can get it back

Maybe Augur of Skulls?

>>55297506

Tidehollow Sculler. If you're thinking Ravneous Rats then just play Rotting Rats instead at least you can discard another Rotting Rats to it and still be fine. If you just want random discard and don't necessarily need a body then you can play Whisper's of Emrakul and if you have delirium then it becomes Hymn to Tourach.

As to whether these are good ideas is a different story but those are some options.

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/35791_Lets-Get-Rowdy.html
>tfw /ourguy/ tom ross believes in littycrew

>>55297829
yeah, just like rabblemaster, in that it's complete shit in modern

>>55297868
I'm gonna run both and get fuckin LITTY alongside The Boss

>>55297397
See
>>55294095

>>55283925
I understand what you're trying to convey but the notions that you're presenting are not a factor at a pro level, and that is what most decks that are being played with the most success are. Decks created by or mastered by pros. By all rights you are correct when it comes to basic rules of deckbuilding.. more colors equals less consistancy and all that, but splashing colors is not difficult when you have access to a modern manabase. Wizards allowed fetches into modern knowing it would make mana issues a nonfactor for anyone that can afford to play with a full manabase. They will never ban fetches and I doubt they will print over powered cards like obliterator just so mono colored decks can put up better numbers

>the only expensive card in Boggles is getting a reprint at rare
Holy shit it's going to be a budget deck in a few months.

Might be one of the most cost effective decks.

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>>55269110
What deck can I play that runs 4 THRAGTUSK

>>55298479
So have you noticed that the Mythics are really sad in Iconic? The average Rare is like 2-3x the average Mythic in what's spoiled.

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>>55298666
I got'chu Satan

>>55298744
I really think the set is pretty meh overall. The rare slot is either hero or zero, not much in-between. Uncommons besides Mishra are pretty underwhelming.

I don't know, I felt MM17 had a lot more to offer. Here it's like, if you're not ripping a Mana Drain or a Future Sight land you kind of whiffed.

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>>55298748
Thank you anon.

What is the "planeswalker redirection rule" and why are they considering removing it? I'm a new player.

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>>55298947
The planeswalker redirection rule lets you redirect any non-combat damage you deal to a player to a planeswalker they control. E.g. you light bolt your opponent, you can have it deal 3 damage to their Liliana of the Veil instead. But they're not planning on removing that.
They're planning on removing the 'Planeswalker Uniqueness Rule'. This rule basically says you can't have two planeswalkers of the same type, e.g. can't have two liliana's, even if they're different cards. They're replacing it with the legend rule, which says you can't have two legendary cards with the same name. All planeswalkers will become legendary, so you can't have two liliana of the veil, but you can have a liliana of the veil and a liliana, the last hope at the same time.

>>55299036
I'm referring to this tweet:
https://twitter.com/mtgaaron/status/906199555120652288

>>55298947
>>55299082
direct damage such as lightning bolt can only hit planeswalker via the redirection rule (IE: bolt your face, redirect to jace)

the problem with this is that things like Leyline of Sancitity prevented you from being able to deal direct damage to PW, as you had hit the opposing player then redirect it

tl;dr lmao hexproof

>>55299082
Oh ok, well right now the planeswalker redirection rules exists so that older cards, printed before planeswalkers existed, can still damage then. They're planning on removing the ability to redirect it, and instead retconning all older cards so they say 'player or planeswalker' instead of 'player', same thing for opponent.
This would mostly work the same, except for when you have hexproof like >>55299111 said, and a couple other niche cases.