>My paladin doesn't worship a god, but ideals

>>55235125
Makes sense taking into account:
1. Paladins followed ideals, not gods irl
2. Every edition of D&D paladins could worship ideals right in the core
3. Paladins are envoys of justice, not emissaries of gods

>My paladin doesn't worship a god.
Yeah, he worships 2 gods at the moment because he believes in both of their ideologies equally as they both are natural parts of being alive so why be so devote to just 1 set of beliefs?

>>55235125
whats wrong with that?
doesnt change the fact that he is a holy knight who smites evil

>>55235125
the best part about D&D, pathfinder, and literally every RPG ever is your don't have to follow the rules if you and the DM don't want to
its a game about imagination and having fun, do whatever to imagine and have fun

>>55235125
>Implying that gods in fantasy settings aren't Platonic forms of commonly shared ideals, existing like an egregore
>Implying that most ideals that a paladin would hold aren't widespread enough to produce a god

>>55235125
>My paladin is dedicated to the cause of righteousness

>>55235125
>OP got BTFO last thread and came back for more
low int, lower wis

>the arcane knowledge of my wizard is wrote down in a book

>>55235125
But that's the logical choice. Remember, D&D is a setting where objective good exists. Good as a concept exists outside of the Gods themselves - they are defined in relation to it, rather than vice versa. So a Paladin might venerate the Gods, but they'd understand that the Gods aren't the source of their ideals, only fellow followers of them.

>>55235141
>2. Every edition of D&D paladins could worship ideals right in the core
But most actual settings as written required the worship of the deity. The ideal thing only was created so Atheists/Christians who didn't truck with the notion of pretend worship of shit could play Clerics because they were still vital to the balance of the game. They still kinda are in every game bar 3.PF where there really aren't any other classes that can take on the healer roll.

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>>55235125
>one thread wasn't enough
You know pretending to be retarded isn't the same as trolling, right?

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>>55235125
> I post dis thred agen, LOL, dis idea is so dumb amirite guyz?
Go away troll.

>>55236052
>But most actual settings as written required the worship of the deity.
Citation needed, Forgotten Realms is not most settings.

>The ideal thing only was created so Atheists/Christians...
Please reference the source of that information, you presuming it with no context means nothing.

>They still kinda are in every game bar 3.PF where there really aren't any other classes that can take on the healer roll.
Oh, I get it, you're joking.

>>55235125
I can be done right, see >>55235405

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>monk has no order that trained them, their strikes are just powered by their burning fury

>>55236052
You know you can believe in god and still not devote your life to their worship in D&D right?

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>>55236106
>Monk is not a monk at all
>No ki, no mysticism, no burning fury
>He's just a street fighter who punches through fullplate just because "they grew up in a bad part of town"
I'm perfectly willing to accept Jackie Chan punching out dragons, but keep this "brawler" shit away from me.

>>55236053
"Pretending"

>>55235125
This is why classes are a bad idea.

I'm going to laugh at all of you.

>>55236391
Yes.

Those people aren't Clerics however.

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>>55235125

>>55236068
Birthright/Cerilia
Golarion
Dark Sun(Elemental Spirits/Sorcerer Kings are basically deities and kinda goes back to my point that Clerics are necessary evil for game balance in most editions).
Dragonlance/Krynn

A paladin that gets power from a god is just a cleric who is bad at his job.

>not playing an Objectivist paladin

>>55236685
Boxing, pankrator and pugilism in general would like a word with you. Hell, PF even added a Brawler class that does the unarmed combat deal just without all the mystic powers. And a Fighter specialized in unarmed fighting can keep up with a Monk in most cases, all those flat bonuses add up to stay at least on par to the difference between 1d6 and 2d10 (3.5 and 11 average damage before bonuses, where a specialized fighter can get a +7 from feats and training, better BAB and therefore better PA, can still snag TWF for flurry, etc.)

>>55236742
What an astounding coincidence, Paladins aren't clerics either

>>55236815
It's so sad how much shit the monk gets, srly, anyone can be better than him at martial arts and unarmed combat

>>55236788
Oh yeah, Mystara and Ravenloft too.

The Godless cleric thing is a RAW thing because until very recently, removing clerics from the game would cause issues. More D&D settings require you worship a Deity to get Cleric stuff, than don't. In fact Greyhawk and Eberron are the only settings where Clerics of a cause are canon.

>>55236821
Let me rephrase that.
>Those people aren't of Classes reliant upon receiving divne power from an Deity such as Paladins, Clerics, Avengers, etc.

There, you fucking pedant.

>>55236840
both of those are pretty damn major settings though

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>>55236815
>Pathfinder

>>55236849
Dude, again, the manuals tell you you don't need to worship an actual deity same way Druids and Rangers

>>55235931
>I can't tell when I'm being trolled, the binary state
I see you're a barb that really likes his dump stats

>>55236849
There is an elder evil that is straight up built on the concept of getting powers from ideals.

That said, unless you don't have gods in your setting, you should worship a god. Some gods are just straight up fun like Hlal.

So yea

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>>55236053
>pretending

Sometimes a fake can be more real than the legit article. This is one of those cases.

OP is like pic related but with retardation instead of swords.

>>55236917
I gotta admit, I find it hard to have a character worship a god when those gods aren't even actual gods. Most D&D settings do this, with deities just being very powerful creatures or ascended mortals, and it makes the idea of revering them much harder.

It's like if Yahweh was revealed to be real, but it turned out he was actually some rando Canaanite who stumbled into cosmic powers.

>>55236949
Many times you wanna become a god al la immortals handbook:ascension

However to normal people the gods are so vastly above them that they are gods.

And YHWH is an overdiety. Which means he is the strongest god according to d&d

>>55236949
Well I mean that'd probably really annoy the Christians and Muslims. Not sure how it'd affect Jews, Baha'i and the like though, I suspec they'd be pretty chill about the whole thing

>>55236970
Well, he's an overdeity according to Christians. I doubt a Hindu or a Buddhist would agree, since they have their own versions.

The amount of explicit information on gods in D&D might be my problem. We KNOW most of them are just ascended mortals. We KNOW their rank, who is more powerful than who, etc. We KNOW they definitely exist. D&D theology is in this weird place where you have a pantheistic cosmos but people worship in a monotheistic way, devoting themselves to one god over the others, which is... weird.

The Greeks, for example, didn't devote themselves to one god. People joined specific temples but generally you worshiped and paid respect to every deity in the pantheon; failure to do so was seen as a way of unbalancing yourself, spiritually speaking. This is how pantheons generally work, whereas in D&D people apply monotheistic worship to them.

In D&D it feels like, since we have proof of their existence, everyone should just pick the most powerful god to worship, since there's no real other metric by which their validity can be judged. And it's not like real life, where everyone can claim their religion is the only real one.

>>55237042
What you need to do is pick a god whose ideals you like.

Gods rarely kill each other and the power of the god doesn't matter as you can get power from ideals.

Just pick someone you like then ascend.

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>>55235405

>Thor is some horse thing

SJW Marvel is getting out of hand.

>>55237265
>He doesn't know Based Beta Ray Bill
Get a load of this newfag

>>55237265
You are a shit person, anon.

>>55235165
>why be so devote to just 1 set of beliefs?
Because you are not a whore. Stop playing your paladins like a woman.

>>55235405
Yup, Bill is best boy.

>>55235405
>doing good for sake of good
How is this less shit than doing evil for the sake of evil? Seeing how /tg/ want "complex" reason.

>>55240045
"Good" is a goal. "Evil" is a means to an end.

>>55235141
>1. Paladins followed ideals, not gods irl

Within a very religious context. They were the ideal warriors in a Christian empire that was conquering and uniting pagans and crusading against a Muslim invasion.

>>55236685
>when the only game system you're willing to try won't let you be effective with fists unless you're a dedicated ascetic monk

>>55235405
>Horse Thor

The furry pandering is getting out of hand

>>55240189
Beta Ray is old as fuck you retard. He is literally one of the best characters there is. He is just obscure because he is ugly. Proving once again that comic readers are racists.

Goddammit, don't the mods do their fucking jobs anymore?

>>55240189
>>55237265
Both of you.
Kill yourselves.

>>55235125
>Through your exemplary actions and comportment you achieve apotheosis of your ideals and become a new god of the setting

Your move, atheist.

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>>55240057
Your end is my goal.

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>tfw melee fighter with light support magic is my jam
>tfw all that ideology baggage ruins it
Having classes tied to a world view is lame. I never get to play paladins outside of videogames.

>>55241409
>being this much of a raging atheist
Grow up.

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>>55241913
>grow up
>by believing in an imaginary friend

>>55241944
magic isn't real

>>55241913
It's not that I refuse to play a class that is religious, it's that I don't like character decisions being forced on you.
>Oh, you enjoy the mechanics of this class?
>Well the book says your character has to enjoy taking it in the butt and must attempt to shave the heads of your party members at least once a month

>>55241409
>>55242041
You do realize 5e does just that right? Try talking to your GM about adopting that system where you swear to an oath

>>55242041
>not enjoying taking it in the butt
What are you, a faggot?

>>55235125
If Ideals Paladins get magic powers would only Paladins get them or is anyone who believes in something hard enough going to get those abilities?

Because that changes the setting quite significantly of the bat if its the latter. And personally I cant see a reason for the former without Gods getting involved.

>>55241409
You do realize people doing things for an ideology is common right? Like how you are being a hardcore fedora tipper, you can be fanatical and not be religious. Some gods have like no baggage like Hlal.

And good and evil are literal concepts in d&d, it would make sense to be a servant of good and evil.

>Not being a marxist Paladin

>>55242211
Antifa go back to leftypol.

Please

>>55242211
please kill yourself

>>55242211
>marxist
>class-based system
choose one

>>55242224
>>55242232
No rational arguments, I see.

>>55241409
So be a Ranger, Magus, Eldricht Knight, Psychic Warrior, Alchemist, Monk, Warlock, Duskblade, Hexblade, Swordsage, etc etc.

Pretty much every edition has what your looking for and it's not attached to the in universe baggage being a Paladin/Cleric has.
>>55242158
God's by there very nature of being attached to your character, have baggage.

>>55242259
irrational people shouldn't be rationalized with, death is the only way

>>55242259
Captilist America outlasted the USSR and has a better economy than China.

And we didn't have to undergo a bloody transitory period to do it.

Plus, preUSSR society had better looking outfits than postUSSR society

Can we seriously stop replying to bait threads that don't even bother to fucking change the opening text? Just stop.

>>55242269
>implying that weebfuck as ever played a TTRPG in his life
lmao the loser is clear as day just a /v/tard

>>55242269
So does being a wizard.

Doesn't stop me from playing it.

I always make sure to worship a god on any character, that way if I ascend I have a buddy.

>>55242301
>Advocating for violence
Shouldn't you be in some fashy protest right now?
>>55242305
>implying the ISSR was communist
wew, I knew you were ignorant, but wow.

>>55242365
China's communist and you didn't do anything about that.

Plus no true Scotsman isn't an argument.

>>55242365
Shouldn't you be in said protest aswell causing havoc?

>>55242269
but most of those have their own baggage, and the ones that don't are about offensive magic rather than defensive magic and therefore fill a different niche.

>>55242384
>chinks being communists
>implying Mao believed any of the shit he was spousing
Read a book /Pol/

>>55242431
He still switched to a system where production was spread evenly across your population.

If I made a cult that I didn't believe in i still made a cult.

And again no true Scotsman isn't an arguement.

>>55242431
This is /tg/ dude, leave this board.

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>>55242365

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>>55235125

>>55242482
Its hard to tell if Shirou or Saber is the worst characters of the franchise.

>>55242499
Neither, it's wormslut.

>>55242528
She was hardly a character

>>55242499
Shirou is one of the better protags. Saber is better than her shitty clones.

>>55242541
Shirou created Archer, which is one of the shittiest plot twists ever made in the history of Fantasy. An OC donut steel legend.

>>55242565
>Shirou created GAR
Drown in hot glue

>>55242499
Without Shirou we wouldn't have the EMIYA theme.

>>55242482
Is creating an EMIYA-esque character to shit on his ideals the best way to fuck with someone that OP describes?

Think I'm going to play an MRA Paladin in my next game.

>>55242843
Okay.

>>55236788
>>55236840
This is definitively wrong though. The FR splat for 3.5 mentioned that clerics could worship an ideal. I'm not even a grog and I know that.

>>55235125
So he starts off the game fallen? I think that's a new record for fastest time. Can someone check with Guinness?

>>55238279
So I should play like a man and establish a harem of goddesses?

>>55235125

I entirely agree. I much prefer the 'crusading Paladin' archetype, and I've always felt that Paladins should basically be anti-Muslim (so to speak) crusaders. DEUS VULT and all that.

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>>55235125

>>55235125
FWIW OP I think you are right to laugh at this. This seems like blatant pandering to the worst elements of the Atheist community.

I'm not religious but I like the idea of Paladins getting their power from a god and not from being really devout to some ideal.

>>55242258
underrated reply

I was actually reading the 5th ed. corebook and amusingly enough paladins don't seem to worship a single god there.

So... I guess they kinda can worship ideals?

>>55242258

kek

But I guess point-buy would be even more capitalistic

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>>55235125
>>55236052
>The ideal thing only was created so Atheists/Christians who didn't truck with the notion of pretend worship of shit could play
Inacurate. Since the inception of the class, a paragon of knighthood who draws his power from the platonic ideal of the perfect knight was the Paladin. A holy warrior who draws is power from a specific Deity was already a class: Cleric. Paladins drawing their powers from ideas was originally the only fluff for paladins, and was the default paladin fluff for every edition other than 4th.
>>55237265
>>55240189
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=beta+ray+bill
Much like the paladin being a servant to ideals rather than a specific deity, Bbeta Ray Bill is also really old from the early 80's.

>>55235141
Then again, gods are made of ideals. So if enough people follow the paladin's ideals there will be a god for those ideals and then he'll just be a hipster.

>>55245249
According to your logic terrorists are modern day paladins

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>>55235125

Currently playing the "green knight" paladin path in 5e and spinning her as sort a of a para-Shinto animist. I feel like there's options besides D&D style henotheism and fedora atheism to choose from.

>>55236840
Yes only two of the most well liked settings, one of which created by Gygax himself.

>>55240057
>A means to an end

You betrayed the LAW.

>>55242085
Yeah, what are you? Fricken gay?

>>55242130
Any Cha caster is basically doing just that, imposing their beliefs on reality.

>>55242130

as >>55248541 points out, anyone CAN impose their own paradigm on reality, but Paladins have a particularly easy time doing so because they are tapping into a very powerful existing archetype in the form of the platonic-ideal-knight.

>>55235125
"God" is just a metaphore for a set of moral rules.

>>55235405
How is Bill atheist, when he is biggest bro with one?

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>>55235125
>My paladin doesn't worship a god, but hats

>>55235141
>2. Every edition of D&D paladins could worship ideals right in the core

Actually, worshipping gods is the optional part in all editions.

4e ties them to the god the most, and even then, their powers aren't tied to actual worship.

>>55237304
>>55237359
>>55240211
>>55240241
>>55245759
you guys are really bad at understanding jokes