/CofD/ & /wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>55212778

Because ideally Mage should be played in its own independent universe, with the other supernatural creatures retrofitted for their system and not using the actual splat mechanics, just like every other splat.

>>55212832
Running Ascension, can confirm. Wouldn't dream of running a Masquerade or Werewolf game in a setting where Mage-Mages are canon.

>>55212778
>Why are Mages so bloody powerful compared to the rest?

1. When the primary themes of the game are hubris, privilege and corruption of power, the mechanics needs to match the narrative.

2. Their antagonists are more powerful. Mage is designed more as a cosmic horror game than a street-level adventure.

3. Have you seen the hats, robes and beards? Mages need a immeasurable power to protect themselves from picked-on by the other supernaturals for their abominable fashion sense.

>>55212922
>hating on wiz-fashion

I see you can't perceive the Supernal Truth of Good Taste.

>>55212922
Mage isn't a horror game period and doesn't fit in the CofD in the least bit. Mages aren't even real wizards more like like will workers that turn into minor deities.

>>55213023
>Mages aren't even real wizards

Fiction is fiction. Don't you fucking tell us what a real wizard is, you pretentious wad of shit.

>>55213035
>>55213023
Genius honestly fits into the CofD better then Mage, at least its based on an actual horror trope [the mad scientist]. Mage is just, gnostic sorcerers in the Werewolf/Vampire/Mummy/Frankenstein/etc verse.

Changlings don't fit either

>>55213023

Sigh..., you can take that discussion back to the OPP forums. We have enough of our own crap here, but don't need the spillover.

>>55213061
>Changlings don't fit either
I will fight you.

>>55213071
You can fuck right off magefag.

Mages fit in CofD because they're stronger than everyone else, even Demons and Mummies.

:^)

>>55213061

The CofD universe is designed as a tool-box to fit multiple varieties and genres of horror. There's something for everyone.

Just because some splats don't accommodate YOUR personal horror tastes and preferences, doesn't mean they don't fit the CofD or constitute "horror" generally.

For instance, I find WW's "spirit cop" take on werewolves as bland and dissimilar to much of the werewolf horror fiction, but it's still horror, just not for me.

>>55213103
>Mages fit in CofD because they're stronger than everyone else, even Demons and Mummies.

Mages are like the supernatural Kennedys and Bushes of the CofD.

>>55213103
Don't. Please. I beg you.

>>55213201
>ages are like the supernatural Kennedys and Bushes of the CofD.

But who will make the CofD Great Again?

>>55213177
Honestly I find CofD works better as urban fantasy, and oWoD works better as urban fantasy then CofD does and is thus a funner setting.

The only line that works good as actual horror is Vampire.

File: Archmage Trump.jpg (41KB, 428x321px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 428x321px

>>55213223

>>55213223
>"We will build a big beautiful Celestial Tower, and nobody builds towers better then me, believe me."

>>55213061
Mage is full of existential horror.
1) You have the ability to change reality with thoughts and belief
2)Not all thoughts and beliefs are necessarily good things, nor are the changes you make
3)You aren't the only being with this power.
4)There are many more beings, from mage-gods that maintain their power by forcing mundanity on humanity, and beings that exist as a negation of reality.
5)No matter how much you try to change reality, reality itself is an evil lie, and one that everyone else believes. You are ultimately alone.

If that's not horror, I don't know what is.

>>55212832
Huh, I thought I was the only one who did this.

In a forsaken game werewolves exist in full, just the way they're laid out in the books save for minor changes here and there to stuff I don't like. In other games, werewolf shaped things exist, and they have the same general powers as werewolves, but they don't work fully the same as they do elsewhere. Likewise each splat is kind of folded to be based on the splat I'm running's cosmology. In changeling everyone else is likely the result of fey meddling, in demon it's all some offspring of the god machine and so on

>>55213244
>>55213260
Not implausible.

>>55213260

Building a Celestial Ladder.

What could go wrong?

>>55213292
>inb4 'muh mage supremacy'
I play more Vampire and Changeling than mage, and while I like Mage, I prefer the other two games. That being said, mage is fine as a horror setting.

>>55212778
>Why are Mages so bloody powerful compared to the rest?

Why does it matter? Mages doing crazy shit doesn't matter in a Changeling game.

>>55213292
Awakening is only occasionally horror filled, and even then mostly in an abstract sense.

Ascension is non-horror, its entirely optimistic.

Both settings aren't that good at legitimately being scary.

>>55213260

I thought Trump would want to build a Gauntlet Wall and deport all those "bad hombre" illegal immigrant spirits.

>DACA
>Deferred Action for Claimed Arrivals

>#ClaimedLivesMatter

What happened to the retarded demonfags

>>55213337
Awakening is very easy to run as a horror game. Mystery and Horror often go hand-in-hand.

Ascension is the most depressing "optimistic" game I've ever seen.

File: Mercury Character Sheet.pdf (1MB, 1x1px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1x1px

Reposting, want feedback. Critique, bullying, corrections, whatever. Everything on the sheet relates to character and backstory. Got a rough idea for the Awakening too.

>>55213337
>Both settings aren't that good at legitimately being scary.

You just don't like Mage's type of horror and/or your ST stinks.

I find the Mage is more fun, in the horror sense, when the pc's embrace the themes. Once you start doing selfish shit, you realize just how easy, and horrible, it is to continue without regret or consequence.

Mages are some of the biggest monsters in the CofD. While beings like woofs or vampires do terrible things, their impact is usually personal or very local. Mages selfish acts and inevitable screw-up often have much larger repercussions.

So what if you step on the ants, they're only insects, while you are a god...

>>55213372
They backed the fuck off after they couldn't justify their autism.

File: Eruka_frog_by_Pixeltard.png (16KB, 629x576px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 629x576px

Acanthus shits all over the entire changeling splat upon awakening
>Walk into Arcadia.
>Take over the roles of Story Heroes.
>Lord all over True fae in their own realm.
>Walk back into reality
>Spend the rest of career doing it all over again
>in front of everyone
>Going slow enough to show everyone their work
>when they can easily fast forward
>Deleting changeling Powers on a whim
Acanthus literally cuck themselves to make it more 'fair' for changelings

I like to think of Mage as an exercise in Nihilism and Existentialism.

That's the 'horror' of it in my opinion. Personally I keep my games more along the lines of urban fantasy with horror elements, in other words 'fridge horror', because blatant use of horror is never satisfying.

The unspoken word is always more effective.

>>55213372
>What happened to the retarded demonfags

It's past their bedtime, and mommy doesn't let them stay up late.

>>55213389
>bullying
Fuck your desperate repost. You happy?

>>55213389
What did you use to make this sheet?

I'm more of a pen and paper whore.

>>55213423

Acanthus are the biggest douches in the CofD. They make Mastigos seem warm and cuddly.

>Everyone likes their friendly neighborhood Obrimos

>>55213389

You might want to take Hallow. You can burn through mana surprisingly fast.

Could you explain your character concept? The mysterium is kind of an odd choice for a street-smart rogue type.

>>55213425
>>55213379
Ascension's existentialism is literally "Make your own reality!"

Awakening at least has the Exarches and Seers. Ascension is literally a setting where their antagonists might be more the good guys then the player factions.

The people who run the world are misguided zealots whose prime sin is being boring [and potentially fossilizing reality through negligence] and the people who want to blow it up live on the outskirts of existence and have no real power.

>>55213485
MrGone's downloadable interactive sheet. Used Adobe DC Reader to save the changes, because it doesn't work if you save it through your browser, apparently.

>>55213546
What you don't like Purple paradigm ?

>>55213589
The Purple Paradigm concept is so stupid.

Everyone already gets it once they start ditching Foci.

>>55213603
Shame they made it so it no longer exists in m20.

>>55213589
>>55213656
I fucking love Ascension. I'm running it literally as we speak. But its not scary.

>>55213656
It still does once you ditch Foci. At least in effect.

>>55213669
>But its not scary.

I disagree. The rules are so terrible and the mages so cliched that I practically run in terror whenever I see the dreaded purple obelisk.

File: 1421809853223.jpg (344KB, 600x800px) Image search: [Google]

344KB, 600x800px

Do Artefacts still generate their own mana? I can't spot anything about it, only that they have it. And Gnosis.

>>55213704

I don't believe so. It appears that Dave closed the artifact mana battery loophole. However, we cannot be sure until he releases the Mage FAQ sometime between now and the heat death of the universe.

>>55213389
>Not taking Gnosis to 3

Get out

Who are the biggest douches in the CofD, mages, beasts or something else?

>>55213751
The fanbase.

>>55213751
Beasts are douches by design, but the douchery that Mages can get up to dwarfs everyone else.

>>55213729
Shame. A portable hallow was a handy thing to have. Suppose you could use one that casts Create Truth as lasting to create or upgrade a Hallow.

>>55213781
>Beasts are douches by design, but the douchery that Mages can get up to dwarfs everyone else.

It's the difference between street vs.cosmic-level douchbaggery.

>>55213528
If I play (not looking for a game right now) I'll probably ditch Fast Spells and maybe a dot of Resources to contribute towards group merits and just buy them again later.

The concept is that he's a career criminal, mainly dealing in getting goods and cars. Awakening pitch is that he started obsessively going after this one object that was mysteriously moving around a lot, with strange people guarding it (Seers and an artifact/grimoire/whatever). Seers didn't kill him because they wanted to recruit him, and could tell that he was Awakening. The whole pursuit of the object is meant to be the Awakening play, culminating in the Seers orchestrating his arrest, on actual and trumped up charges so they could offer him a way out. He Awoke in jail, etching his name in the wall of his cell. Only thing is his mentor got to him first, opening a portal in the cell and using his own connections to get the charges dropped later.

Mysterium because he's going to actually like magic, he's good at getting into places he isn't supposed to, and it suits his talents and views more than the other Orders. All the Aspirations point to how he wants to start building himself up around his Supernal identity and how he's Hopeful it'll make him more than a just a criminal. I don't plan for him to be like a DnD rogue or thief or whatever and steal things because thief guy lol. Leaning towards Reality Stalkers as a Legacy.

File: Dante_4.png (333KB, 504x880px) Image search: [Google]

333KB, 504x880px

My favorite mage kill in demon was when I told this Obreimos master not to look up. Being the obsessive fuckers mages are he could not help but look up which promptly turned him into a pillar of salt. The absolute madman.

File: 1503511726656.gif (2MB, 200x141px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 200x141px

>>55213389
>gnosis 1

File: 1574839485940.png (740KB, 898x1000px) Image search: [Google]

740KB, 898x1000px

>>55213876
mage > demon

fight me

>>55213304

oWoD used to do that, but only mechanically, not to the extent of fluff changes you make. But really, unless you've got the books available and the understanding that things are going to be busted and of a relatively uneven power level, the splat your playing has its rules and fluff take precedence, period.

It's why Hunter's Dread Power systems work so well, and why they were inspiration for CofD's Horror generation system.

>>55213929
I believe the game developer once stated that Bayonetta would "school" Dante.

Not too difficult to see. She threw a god into the sun.

>>55213859
So his awakening is his second chance at life?

Good. As for your character I don't know if your specialization's are narrow enough to be completely kosher. Perhaps 'automobile' for crafts and 'evasive driving' for drive.

If you want to fluff out your characters background even more there are a couple driving merits you could take as well.

Why'd you pick "Time" as your other arcana? Matter, would play nicely with manipulating mechanical objects.

>>55213994
Ignore that last part I'm an idiot I forgot you're a mastigos.

>>55213994
Yeah, I was kind of wondering about specializations. I went with Wheeled Vehicles because I wanted to have motorcycles in there too and I went with Speeding over Getaway Driving, because the main thing is that he's good at keeping control when going fast. Driving isn't so much a focus as it is something that fell out of him carjacking and working closely with chop shops. But I have no problem with narrowing them down for play. I went with Time because I couldn't pick Matter to start with, and it seems like what he would most likely pick aside from Matter. Matter will probably go up to two dots.

File: DanteDevilMayCry2.png (467KB, 766x768px) Image search: [Google]

467KB, 766x768px

>>55213929
Dante would rape bayonetta figuratively and literally
>>55213971
Yeah he said that after he was booted from making more DMC games. Uncle Dante has never been challenged and is literally invincible in his devil trigger. Also that God feat for bayonetta is a one time deal and she needed jeans help to accomplish it.

>>55214173
You keep thinking that, you outdated emo freak.

I bet you think trench coats are still in fashion.

File: Trenchcoat Convention.jpg (480KB, 1280x1024px) Image search: [Google]

480KB, 1280x1024px

>>55214203
Aren't they?

>>55214256
>Christian Bale lowkey researching his next role

Anyone have a page reference for the Mage merit that let you use a daimon as a mentor?

>>55214611
Never seen it in an official book.

https://deimosmasque.wordpress.com/2007/03/29/going-alone-the-awakening-guide-to-the-apostate/

It's probably a homebrewed merit or something.

File: Andrei the Tzimisce calls The Deb of Night something approaching a Troll face prank crank call bored Sabbat telephone phone vampire WoD rpg.jpg (72KB, 892x896px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 892x896px

so how many layers of bullshit are the Sabbat on using these videos to communicate?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iq1TK3I2vc

>>55212778
Because the other splats use rinky-dink prebuilt powersets.

>>55214871
What the fuck do you mean by this, you cunt?

>>55214926
Well you git for five dots in a contract or whatever a changeling or whatever only gets five fookin powers which may or may not be applicable to any given situation. A mage gets from that a whole arsenal of spells to use, at least some of which can be useful. If other splats could use something like creative thaumaturgy then mage would not be head and shoulders above the crowd.

How bad is mage supremacy really?

File: TerrorkingSalmon-DR2-EN-C-UE.png (645KB, 400x580px) Image search: [Google]

645KB, 400x580px

Why is Terrorking Salmon roe the best delicacy?

>>55215218
The terror of children creates the best spice

>>55215029
Like how much of a reality is it, or how bad is it in play? It's definitely a reality, even though not all Mages are stronger than all members of any other splat. In play it doesn't really matter at all.

>>55215029
Not nearly as bad as people are getting ass blasted about.

Yes, mages are strong. Yes, they can be a better ##### than a #### if they build for it. Yes masters can get exceptional successes that easy etc.

When it comes to the topic of guest appearances you should ask yourself if I'm playing #### why is gandalf the gay showing up in every arc?

Why should the #### community be hostile to the local wizard community when a working relationship would be mutually beneficial?

And if you're going to be hostile to guys that can create zombie tyrannosaurs with machine guns welded to them why the hell would you attack them head on?

>>55215029
Take a gander at the previous thread.

People can get real salty over the boisterous nature of Mage.
The only two game-lines that really stand toe-to-toe with Mage is Demon and Mummy.

Even then this a sketchy declaration, as the strongest theoretical mage is above anything else.
Archmages being even worse.

File: bioarmor_by_themaestronoob-db73dl8.jpg (102KB, 1280x514px) Image search: [Google]

102KB, 1280x514px

Protean seems kind of meager in 2e. Am I missing something?

>>55215269
>guest appearances

Silly Anon, mages always get top billing.

It's mages' reality, everyone else is just lucky to live in it.

>>55215404
>Protean seems kind of meager in 2e

Protean is not some Guyver anime thing. There are no vampions in Requiem 2e.

You should wait for Deviant. DaveB is developing, and it's not Mage.

>>55215468
>mages always get top billing.

What would popular culture look like if mages, vampires, werewolves, etc. were not longer hidden (assuming it wasn't the apocalypse)?

I would expect a lot of mage buddy cop shows and werewolf reality television.

>>55215498
So it will be weak even in its own setting, like all non-mage games he makes.

And I'm not asking, because he has already stated that officially.

>>55215548
Opposite.

Buddy cop shows are about the downtrodden cops in an even more downtrodden world.

Reality shows are about people too rich to have problems pretending they have real people problems.

Mage reality shows, wolf buddy cops.

>>55215548
>I would expect a lot of mage buddy cop shows and werewolf reality television.
And you would be right to expect it, but not because they would be popular and mainstream. Rather, more influential and big picture members of the splats would manipulate media to make their existence more palatable for mortals, to avoid things like say, open warfare.

>>55215597

So, vampire pr firms, agents, producers and attorneys?

>>55215655
With true blood as a basis for 'of the veil falls' society, yeah.

Though honestly that is best case scenario. Because if the masquerade falls we could end up like that movie where most people are vampires living on a limited supply of blood.

>>55215548
>>55215580

WWE

Werewolf Wrestling Entertainment !

>>55215269
Wolf fags need to fuck off

>>55215548
Mages going public would be apocalyptic.

The cold war between the pentacle and the seers is barely holding together as is.

>>55215685
True Blood never made sense to be. Everybody would be begging for immortality at that point.

>>55215720
>Magic powers suddenly exist
Why would you not want them?

>>55215498
Zulo form would disagree with you.

>>55215688

I would love to see commercials for Crazy Al's Wand Emporium.

They have everything for your Path tool needs. Short wands, long wands, new wands, used wands, luxury wands, custom wands, value and budget wands, wands of every shape, size and material you can imagine, as well as a full selection of rods, staves, cups, mirrors, coins and daggers (with appropriate permits). Best of all, the prices are insane!

>>55215720
Except the religious, the scared, and those that see it as too much of a risk.

But really it was on vampires to not spread it around, which it always has been.

>>55213859
>>55213528
A career thief will fit right into the Mysterium, they love stealing magical shit. They're the Indiana Jones Order.

>>55216037
I thought they vivisected sleepers? When they aren't setting up concentration camps for them that is.

>>55216058
They're all about Magic. Finding it, studying it, protecting it, taking it and keeping it from filthy muggle hands(unworthy hands in general, really), etc. Anyone who's more interested in Magic and what they can do with/for it fits in with the Mysterium.

>>55216058
Humans doesn't deserve Reality

Does ghosts in CofD have a weakness/bane to salt?

File: Average Mystagogue.jpg (281KB, 695x1320px) Image search: [Google]

281KB, 695x1320px

>>55216058
They vivisect *interesting* things. Sleepers are boring by definition.

>>55216228
That poor Changeling

Why is Mage Supremacy shit still posted anyway? It became incredibly boring months ago.

>>55216228
No one awakens that young. That mage is just a pervert that probably needs to be hunted down by the guardians.

>>55216288
Because people keep hating on it enough to drive Mage players insane.

Case in point: The Demonfags over in the last thread.

>>55216264
One should try really hard to never Pique a Mages interest and curiosity.

>>55216264
>poor

You really need to ditch that false sense of morality, my friend. They're only Changelings.

>>55216309
False
Also bait.

>>55216308
They don't have to be Mages at all. None of them do. They could all be children of:
>Proximi dynasties
>Sleepwalkers
>Sorcerers and psychics
All of whom are in the employ of the Orders. We should all remember that Mage society and institutions are made up of a majority of these minor templates with Actual Awakened serving as the top brass and ultra-privileged class.

>>55216264

The changeling's death is helping to advance Mage Science.

There's nothing more honorable.

>>55216353
It's evidently not false.

Last thread was going fine until they did their thing.

>>55216483
>was going fine
If that is the standard for 'fine' around here, that speaks volumes.

Because all that happened was someone escalating to the same level of stupidity as magewank.

>>55213351
>Nemesis: "I Approve."
>General: "Wait really? You uh...you sure you're okay there Nemesis, last I checked we were trying to crush those mages of the Pentacle."
>Nemesis: "We are, but this fool doesn't realise that he's playing directly to my rules."

>>55215498
>You should wait for Showa-Era Kamen Rider.
FTFY

>>55215580
>wolf buddy cops.
Hands up who here realised you could make one of the CSI Series into a WtF game.

>>55216595
Blue blood would be better. Even if that show is worse.

>>55216595
Some anon last year posted a pretty cool story about a Geist and Woof buddy cops in a noir setting.

>>55216630
Fair point to you.

I only suggested one of the numerous CSI shows because I've actually watched them.

>>55216595

You sure couldn't make a Mage CSI show.

It would last about three minutes,

>>55216648
I want to read this, where is it?

>>55216288
Because the mage posters in this thread have the emotional maturity of an 8 year old that always wants to be Optimus Prime and makes up rules that allow it to insta-win when playing Uno

>>55216671
Sure you could, there'd just have to be a deeper mystery than an ordinary crime.

>>55216671
What are the Mages doing with the extra two and a half minutes?

>>55216671
That's because there's nothing engaging about Mage.

>>55216746

Intro, murder scene and credits.

>>55216746
Jerking each other off and twisting the Supernal to make it not gay.

>>55216746
The investigation of the death of Decurion in Soul Cage sounds like it ran longer than three minutes.

>>55216799
Whoever wrote that portraid mage wrong.

>>55216787
>Gay

Nobody said anything about changelings in the Mage show!

>>55216712
Look at this Assblasted Demon Fag. Get your shitty Gunman embed out of here.

>>55216824
>>55216829
Like clockwork.

File: butthurt meter.jpg (159KB, 780x796px) Image search: [Google]

159KB, 780x796px

how butthurt are you magefags

>>55216819
I'd be interested to hear it dismantled point by point.

>>55216866
Not your personal critic army.

>>55216895
Only one way for me to know why you think it's wrong.

>>55212853
> Mages have an Avatar and manipulate Quintessence
> Vampires have an Avatar damaged by the Curse of Caine and feed on Quintessence through blood
> Werewolfs have Rage which is a kinda negative Quintessence/Willpower similar to Demon Chi of Keui-Jin and Angst of Wraith's Shadows... Gnosis is Quintessence, the Umbra is the Spirit World

None of this shit is contradictory. Get some transmuted silver for uppity werewolves, then bottle sunlight for vampires.

>>55216712
>>55216829
>>55216865
Do you mongs literally lie in wait for the moment to vent out your autism?

Do you even contribute to these threads?

>>55216854
>Wah an Archmage unmade my game
Cry little baby. Your tears are clockwork

>>55216934
I only post shitposts. yes. We're past the point of civil discussion.

>>55216934
I don't know do you even contribute to these threads? False flagging mouth breather? At least we inform everyone on how to delete the sub splats to make way for the one true gameline

Let's return to the less controversial discussion of supernatural television.

>>55216989
A single Mage can Out preform Cas(Angel) and both hunters without thinking about it.

>>55216700
Glad someone remembered that shit heap I wrote.

The plot summary:

It's prohibition LA, Lazarus is a detective for the LAPD and an army vet from ww1. He's partnered with Lopez a former marine and werewolf who's abandoned his pack after they broke the oath.

Someone has been slashing up hookers around town and Morningstar the unbound (a title referencing a powerful demon with many covers and a web of favors) asks them to wait awhile before moving on the case. They both have recently gotten out from 'his' yoke (Lazarus made a deal to smooth over the rough ends from getting riddled with holes from a gang hit in public and Lopez made a deal when fleeing his former pack) and want to solve the case just to spite the bastard.

A visit to a changeling speak-easy for information turns into a bloodbath after it's discovered Lopez's former pack has been pimping Maria Lopez's wolf-blooded fiancee and Lopez death rages and tears some important chunks out of some changeling Lotharios. Unfortunately they're really out numbered and there is no shortage of silver and other supernatural weaponry. Both are badly beaten Lazarus ignores Lopez's demand to leave him and painfully drags him through the sewers to the LA river fleeing the mob.

Without many options Lazarus flees to the one place he know's he swore he'd never return. The lair of Ophelia an ancient vampire, femme fatale, and former lover.


That's just the start I'm on mobile right now and I'm almost out of charge so I can't finish the blurb. But, I'll repost the story sometime if I remember.

So I started a new game of V20.
The party so far is interesting. We have a Gargoyle that acts as an enforcer, a gangrel that is petty smart, and seems to be the defacto leader of the group, a tremere that is unhinged and plays with genetics, a kyassid theif, and finally a child tzimisce that defected from the Sabbat.
It's been good so far even if the first session was a little short.

>>55217033
Anon we said less controversial.

Besides, I always think of Mages actually being hurt like that scene from from Star Trek where Sisko punched Q in the face.

>>55217164
>child Tzimisce
That doesn't sound very wholesome

>>55217182
Does the Truth hurt demonfag?

>>55217208
Is vampire ever?

>>55217215
Not a demonfag, just someone who wants actual discussion...and also for everyone else to stop flinging shit at one another.

>>55217226
It isn't, but child vampires are the creepiest shit, even by bloodsucking rapist standards
And Tzimisce on top of that ...
How does the char interact with others ?
Also which one are you playing ?

>>55212778
They’re the cis white males of the world of darkness.

>>55217266
I am playing the tzimisce, the first session the gargoyle and the kyassid were absent. And I realized I also forgot about the toreador we have that is attempting to become prince.
As for group dynamics, my character gets along with the gangrel pretty well, hates the tremere on principle first, but he is also a giant liability as he plays with genetics. And the toreador was too busy being stunned by the rudeness of the gangrel and the insanity of the tremere to really interact with my character. Part of that is also she just defected from the Sabbat and knows locals won't like her much so she is keeping to herself until she knows the rest of the group better.

>>55217254
You will find no actual discussions here

Not unless you want to talk about how awesome mages are

>>55217402
Unfortunately true, any other discussions people either ignore or just say Google it.

>>55217304
Looks like a good start
I hope you keep having fun with it

>>55217402
>>55217439
The cure is simple :
Hide mage posts
Ignore mage posters
Do not reply to mage posters

The thread will be much slower, but they will eventually starve from the lack of attention

>>55216156
Yeah, that's mentioned in Awakening 2e as an example bane. A ghost might burn at the touch of purified salt or something.

>>55216058
They don't vivisect Sleepers, they're just the Order most likely to outright hate them.

>>55217402
That's not true. Me and some guy talked about my character concept for a bit.

>>55217850
>Do not reply to mage posters
There's probably a fine line between people who use Mage as an enabler for shitposting and people who just want to discuss Mage ideas.

It's the same with all the Splats really.

Malklavian Vampire who has been going cold turkey since night of being turned, can't cure addiction because undead, and can't indulge it without spending vitae or targeting people under influence. Claims that got addicted because of self-medication.
Addicted to caffeine.

>>55217930
Get fucked wooffag you're AWWOOOing gay shit is ruining the thread

>>55216819
Not quite. Decurion was a Mage, and it was an involved process to speak to his allies, trace his presence across the city, deal with other persons interfering, pursue false leads, pierce magical deceptions, and ultimately summon his ghost from the Underworld while in an Astral city of immortal thought-beings. And the guy leading the investigation did it all while dressed as a pirate, and with an attractive Nazi hermaphrodite in girl form helping them out.

>>55217948
Case in fucking point.

>>55217942
>Addicted to caffeine.
I would suggest working as a barrista, but you know, Malk.

Anyone familiar with Genius: I am thinking about making universe variable for Wonders that would emulate Catches from Changeling Tokens. In essence borderline case scenarios when Wonder activation would cost no Mania. Would this variable be beneficial "enough" to add -1 to core modifier or more?

>>55218041
*universal
Designed this for my character concept where sufficiently deluded Genius was trying to pass for a Fae (badly).

>>55218069
You're in the wrong place. This general is for games in the WoD and CofD lines.

Alright, starting Forsaken 2e now. What am I in for aside from awooos?

It's hard to read this book when your eyes are rolling every time they switch up the gender references for Father Wolf and Luna. And it's like every single mention, not just here and there. "He" in this sentence, "she" in the next, writing out god/dess instead of just one or the other. I don't mind the agendered spirit thing, it even makes sense, but this seems excessive.

>>55218531
This was from fanline. Figured there'd be people familiar with it here.

>>55218531
Fuck off magefag. You artists are the only ones here that shit on genius

>>55219423
>mobileposting

>>55219423
It's especially hilarious from lore perspective because it's exactly how Mage are described to react on Geniuses in-universe.

>>55219077
Yeah that shit was aggravating as fuck.

>>55219439
Yeah...don't both sides see the other as one of their more horrifying Antagonist Splats?

Mages see the Geniuses as Abyssal Intruders and the Geniuses see Mages as Unmada.

Also Pride has prevent both sides from explaining anything.

>>55219439
That would imply Genius is in-universe with Mage at all.

>>55219594
Well...it is if you want it to be.

You rowdy lads have any advice for a first time storyteller of Mage 2e? I'm a little overwhelmed, but hopefully I can wing it until I learn it. I am familiar with the 2e rule set, having played a few games with just the core, so there's that at least.

>>55219650
Remember that mages are the best and their magic can easily solve any challenge you set before them with just 1 or 2 dots in time or fate unless you cheat your players

>>55219650
Kill your players with ass marbles. It's for their own good

>>55217965
Aw I'm !notsorry. Is this your first time on 4chan? Grow thicker skin newfag

>Aw I'm !notsorry. Is this your first time on 4chan? Grow thicker skin newfag
(You) are literally part of the problem.

>>55217304
Look at that. An entire group of edgelords each trying to be a special snowflake.

@55219818
(You) are literally too retarded to live. Read the fucking book and stop being so Anally Rimmed on a regular period

You know, It's kind of sad watching someone find every reason to be insulting to someone else just because that person made a reasonable comment.

>>55215218
Is that a Beast?

>>55219589
Unmada are more deluded and unstable Geniuses, which makes them potentially least scary by default. They are just bit too close to jump over moral horizon.
Geniuses were described to be open for coexistence and cooperation but their Jabir (technobabble induced inability to communicate one's ideas) throws Mages into fit.

>>55219888
Please, tell us about the game you're playing/running.
I'm sure it will be fascinating.

>>55220290
>Unmada are more deluded and unstable Geniuses, which makes them potentially least scary by default. They are just bit too close to jump over moral horizon.
I think the Mage+Unmada comparison would come from the Mage (presumably one of the Free Council.) trying to explain that reality is a lie.

>>55220528
>Mage+Unmada
Crap I meant Mage=Unmada, sorry.

>>55217304
>defect from the sabbat
>what is a vaulderie
>you dont defect from the sabbat

Murder the bitch now, shes a manchurian candidate.

>>55212922
Most of the problems people here have with Mage seem to signal to me that they're essentially just doing it wrong. Oke that is al.

>>55218746
Despite not being optimal or necessary most of your problems will be "solved" with murder orgies.

>>55220637
Magefags on here are consistantly correct in everything they argue about. They are autistic about it.

Its mainly other fucking tards who dont like the fact their fav splat isnt as powerful, these mongos have never read mage and yet try to argue their points and just end up looking like retards.

>>55219650
If a scene could be solved with a single spell then that scene doesn't need to exist.

Don't be afraid to be a dick to your players. Mage is a high power game so the challenges should be similar.

>>55220677
My point being as a Mage player, Mages never struck me as that powerful, unless you need to let your players dip in the deep end of several 5 dot arcana. The typical Mage will get killed by a Werewolf and he will get decieved by a Vampire. Because Werewolves are the apex fighters and Vampires are the apex decievers. The only thing you could say about Mages is that their skills are most broadly applicable. But on the other hand, take all their powers away and by template they're generic humans, while if you take the Werewolf's cool powers he's still an unstoppable killing machine, and the Vampire is still an undead menace that can use blood to heal and buff.

File: Slider_uno.png (191KB, 670x488px) Image search: [Google]

191KB, 670x488px

>>55220761
THIS IS FUCKING BAIT AND YOU ARE NOT A MAGE PLAYER GODDAMNIT!

>>55220800
It's not supposed to be bait, and I am playing an Acanthus Mysterium Censor atm. I am just seeing this debate for the first time desu and it strikes me as ridiculous. A Vampire has the time to take 50 years to decieve me. A Werewolf is my physical better. The typical way I defeat them as a Mage is with superior Knowledge and/preptime preptime preptime. And if I don't have that, I better hope I can get away.

Maybe we're just not playing on your anime powerlevel?

>>55220924
You have put the finger on the crux of the problem.
/wodg/ magebabies are a bunch of powergamers that insist every mage is omniscient and prepared for everything at any given moment, as well as perfectly rational all the time and devoid of any exploitable vice or flaw.

>>55221174
Yeah and players knowing all source books in character and gaming that knowledge is endemic in the WODs anyway. It's one of the worst things you can do in Mage in my view, because Mage is all about acquiring knowledge and turning into an unstoppable force because of this, somewhat like super powered Cthulhu investigators.

File: hun.jpg (185KB, 500x1143px) Image search: [Google]

185KB, 500x1143px

>>55220761
So? Played a human for more than a decade, with professional chemist in the group. Vampires die to decent home cooked bombs and flame-throwers. Yiff-woofs too, if a bit slower, but you still can cook up buckshoots that make them proper dead pronto. Or gas them since they aren't dead. Mages are just humans with superpowers and delusions of grandeur.

>>55220924
>False Flag the post
Mages are all powerful. Click your fingers and unmake woofs and burn vampires at a whim. You're not even trying

File: SeerPooh.png (533KB, 675x688px) Image search: [Google]

533KB, 675x688px

Saw this on OP Forums and thought I should share.

File: Official_Judgment_Aeon.png (454KB, 530x921px) Image search: [Google]

454KB, 530x921px

>>55220924
Or maybe you are just not creative enough to play an Acanthus if you believe you have anything to fear from a leech or a woof when you are master of fate and time.
>>55221174
Mages are paranoid by default and it's not that hard to have mage armor or reflexive shielding ready.

>>55221333
The Exarchs did the right thing for the wrong reasons.

>>55221352
Your a fucking Acanthus, the vampire should have zero time to do anything, you do have the time arcana right? Werewolf physically better when he is hexed to fucking kingdom come and back?

You are just a shit mage player.

>>55221523

oops>>55220924 meant for this cunt

>>55221457
Exarchs did everything wrong for all the wrong reasons they could possibly have.

>>55219650
Go with what the book says. Build things up around a theme, and when building a Mystery, don't have everything plotted out beforehand. Instead make it in such a way that things can evolve based on player action. It literally says to not even decide on a culprit. Also consider their abilities, both magical and mundane, when constructing obstacles.

>>55221523

And you've never actually played a game, so I'd say they still have the edge over you.

>>55219650
Also read DaveB's actual plays. They're 1e but they still help you get acquainted with things in practice.

>>55220924
Details on your character and the other PCs? What's your Chronicle like?

>>55220588
>what is a vaulderie
A ritual that binds you to your pack mates not to the organization as a whole. Also it works both ways.

>>55222253
So just when is her pack going to turn up and get her back then?

File: Anarchs.jpg (111KB, 945x611px) Image search: [Google]

111KB, 945x611px

>>55220588
>you dont defect from the sabbat

Actually, plenty of folks defect from the Sabbat, though the Sabbat puts great effort when the defector is an important Cainite, and they do everything they can to hunt them down in order to preserve the Sabbat's secrets (and to help it make look like the Sabbat is more unified than it really is to outsiders).

Even some Tzimisce defect from it, though those "independent" Tzimisce rarely embrace the Camarilla or the Anarchs on a personal level, and even when they do they tend to just go "any port in a storm..." and just pretend to be some other clan before skedaddling away when they get bored.

I mean, unless you're playing a powerful vampire (like most Lasombra Antitribu who survive more than a week after defecting) whose secrets could really hurt the Sabbat if they got out, the Sabbat mostly just leaves its low-rank defectors alone if said defectors just flee the scene.

They might put up a "hey this guy ran out on us, kill him if you see him"-poster in other nearby cities, but it's not like the vampire CIA are gonna be hunting after every shovelhead that gets cold feet. Heck, the Vaulderie isn't even that hard to circumvent: not every vampire partakes in it, and not every vampire that partakes in it is affected, and even then, not every vampire that refuses to partake in it is immediately destroyed.

Have we seen the changeling contracts yet? Or even just the innate 2e powers? Nothing in dev diaries, sadly.

>>55219888
What? How is any of that edge lord territory? Or are you just spouting off meme words to try to act like you are relevant?

File: 1493060751785.png (71KB, 486x474px) Image search: [Google]

71KB, 486x474px

Would an autistic Ventrue still have the ability to use the Presence discipline?

>>55222663
The contracts are probably going to get a major rework since Hill left.

>>55222668
Kiasyd? Child vampire? Gargoyle? Need i go on?

>>55222375
No idea, that is why she fled to a Camarilla city to wait for things to cool off, what better place to hide out then among their worst enemies.
>>55222559
Unfortunately they may really want to make an example of her, she knows Sabbat rituals and was going to become a priest before bolting.

>>55222726
Well if you trust her enough to actually sleep near her you deserve everything your gonna get.

Nothing good will come out of her, so just end it now, stake & sun that bitch

>>55222718
So you are saying it because of bloodlines and a child, which means you are using a buzz word with little understanding of what it means, what makes them edgelords? What edgy actions have they done?

>>55222746
That is who I am playing but the party does not know all of that, they just know the prince dropped a Sabbat defector in their laps because it might be useful to them when they have to go deal with some dirty work for him. She is convinced that he put her with them because he really hates Sabbat and wanted her to suffer with a bunch of crazies.

>>55222761
Are you the faggot changeling wannabe who chose the kaisyd? I bet you are.

How is choosing some of the rarest and unique bloodlines not an attempt to be a speshal snowflake and an attempt to show how fabby dabby do they are? How is that not trying to be edgy?

>>55222911
Seriously? Should everyone play Gangrel or Brujah then? Any sort od differences are bad wrongfun? Who gives a fucj?

>>55222911
No as I said earlier I am the tzimisce, whom I will admit is a bit of an edgelord but that is because you know spending years in the Sabbat will make you a bit different than your fellows outside the Sabbat. Which is also something she is trying to wrangle with, to not make herself marked as someone that needs to die.

>>55222930
everybody should be a fish malk!

>>55223039
No if you are going to be a malk be a Pyro.

>>55222911
Because that is not what edgy.

>Taking coolness to its extreme and generally beyond the realm of actual possibility, while at the same time seemingly unaware of how ridiculous it is.

>>55223178
Not him, but arguing a made-up annotation from urban dictionary against a term that vastly relies on general connotations isn't really helping your case.

>>55223258
Which case is that?
The one that anything that is not a generic clan is edgy for some reason is a fucking stupid stance to take?

>>55223258
You are a retard.
Edgy is bullshit anti hero cut me bullshit. The general prospect of being a vampire is already edge enough. But we've already accepted that as a part of the setting assumption.

It is obviously snowflaky rare but not edge.

>>55223323
This anon understands what edgy is.

>>55223277
>>55223323
I'm not taking a stance, just saying that quoting urban dictionary isn't going to help. Reign it in.

Feedback appreciated on a silly concept for a Beast:

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/beast-the-primordial-aa/541856-beast-character-idea-thread?p=1137167#post1137167

Forsaken is coming off as a bit harder to digest than Awakening. Maybe things will click as I read more, but right now it's something of a jumble. Auspices, faces, renown, views of other auspices and tribes, all at once and before some things are even introduced. I understand it all well enough, but progress is kind of tumultuous.

>>55224046
Yeah I disliked the use of the First-Tongue in some parts of the book. Made it harder to parse than necessary.

>>55224046

Keep it simple.

Your pack is a gang and you hunt stuff to improve and protect your territory.

Now, have fun clawing and biting stuff.

>Also, don't piss off the local mage.

>>55224099

First Tongue is nothing compared to the language in Mummy.

>>55224103
Local Spirit mage should be your best friend. In my game, local Spirit Master have two packs fighting for her favors, and she regularly use them to bite off pieces of her enemies.

Well since my game seems to be getting so much attention, I guess I will give a synopsis of it.
>Game starts
>Gangrel and Tremere are hanging out in their haven, they have been trying to research what has been killing Nosferatu in the sewers.
>The Tremere has an epiphany, he has been playing with rainbow shrimp genetics, he has a doctorate in genetics, and once of his specimens disappeared.
>Around this time the Tzimisce shows up at the prince's office to ask for asylum from the Sabbat, the prince says you have a week to find someone to back you and take responsibly for you or get out of my city.
>So the gangrel calls the seneschal and asks to speak to the prince, then informs the prince of what is in the sewers, he is told to solve the issue.
>The Tzimisce is stopped and told instead if they want to stay they need to go and help kill something. But is not told what it is.
>Tzimisce gets a cab, thankfully the cabby is not going to question her.
>The prince informs the gangrel he will be getting help, so the gangrel goes and waits outside.
>The Toreador arrives at the haven, gets stopped at the door, gets questioned and then let in after making it clear he is there to hire them to kill someone. The Tremere is yelled at to be a good host, and berated like a dog. Then the Gangrel goes back outside.
>The Tremere and the Toreador get to talking, the Tremere is very obviously unhinged and unsettling to the poor Toreador.
>Tzimisce arrives at the haven is also stopped at the door and asked if she is there on orders of the prince. The Tzimisce is evasive about the question until it is clear he is one of the people in this haven, he was dressed like a hobo.

>>55224120
Still haven't gotten around to reading it. Mostly because you know "who cares".

>>55224099
That's not so bad. I already know what it is from Awakening's section on spirits, so I just figured "werewolves doing spirit talk". Mostly it's the way it's structured. Like you get all the relevant information at once, even for things that haven't themselves been explained yet.

>>55224127

Hold on..., your mage and werewolves get along.

That's preposterous. You're clearly having badwrongfun.

What's next, the local Obrimos just chilling with vampires?

>>55224179
>Once the Tzimisce is let in they all sit in the living room, and the Toreador is very alarmed by a child walking in, and is not enjoying the company here. But he informs the others that he wants to hire them to kill a very well liked kindred whom is running for the prince position as the current one is stepping down.
>The person he is asking to be murdered is a well liked kindred so the Gangrel surmises the Toreador wants to steal the nomination for prince from his clan.
>After they agree to kill him and use discretion so it is not linked back to the toreador the Gangrel turns to the Tzimisce.
>Asks what she can do because the prince sent her to them for a reason.
>She says she can handle herself and asks for a gun or a knife. He asks the question again saying he needs to know what the team can do, she finally responds with Vicissitude.
>With a sudden realization the Gangrel starts apologizing for having been rude, much to the confusion of the Toreador and the Tremere, whom don't really understand kindred history as well.
>The Tzimisce is given an axe that is far too big for her, the Gangrel takes a large rifle, and talks the Toreador into helping us with the business for the prince so we can get to his business sooner.
>We pile into the truck, bringing the Gangrels ghouled dog, and the Tremeres ghoul.
>The Tzimisce, and the dog are in the cab, with the Gangrel driving, the others are in the bed, much to the Toreadors dismay being stuck with the Tremere in the bed of a truck.
>Upon arriving at our destination, a manhole, the Toreador offers to buy the Gangrel a new truck after that horrible ride, the truck was older then him. Everyone laments about going into the sewers for their own reasons, mostly amounting to not wanting to smell like a sewer with only one change of clothes.

>>55224201
>The plan is to go in, without any lights because light would attract the shrimp, the ghoul and the Gangrel will shoot it dead with large caliber rifles, and if that fails the plan is throw the Tzimisce on its back and have her fuse is exoskeleton together so it can't move.
>The Toreador then complains about having to breath down there, the Gangrel tells him he doesn't need to breath, the Tzimisce simply offers to remove his lungs for him.
Session ends there, we started a little late because it was more of an impromptu thing since we play every other week, so our game was actually supposed to be next week but may be postponed.

>>55224181
Like are these "individual faces" something like sub-auspices, or just character examples? Who knows? Not me!

>>55224197
>What's next, the local Obrimos just chilling with vampires?
Local Seers and vampires are natural allies. Paternoster pylon is commanded by Obrimos, who thinks that clearly vampires are tool of Father to punish unbelievers and scare sheep into obedience. So, you know, Lancea Sancrum. But this being the Seers and vampires, local Mammon pylon shit on them and their attempts with spontaneous combustion of Lancea havens.

>>55224197
Acanthus helping Changelings enforce the good Pledges and break out of the bad Pledges.

Moros having parties and exploring the Underworld with Sin-Eaters.

Mastigos helping Demons with their Covers and espionage in exchange for info on God-Machine related Mysteries.

Mages don't have to be assholes.

>>55224271
Could a mage return a supernatural to their human state?

>>55224293
Depends on the type of supernatural.

An adept of Time could revert a supernatural that was transformed at some part in their life to what they were before the change (vampire, changeling, geist) but the spell can't be lasting before arch mastery.

So you could let your cute goth vampire waifu enjoy a day out in the sun with you.

>>55224343
Just turn a very old very low humanity vampire human then laugh at them when they pass out from forgetting to breath.

>>55224293
Archmage certainly can. But will he? Not if this doesn't make his Ascension closer.

>>55224375
Couldn't ridding the world of the supernatural just be a personal goal?

File: MageAssholes.png (210KB, 1203x1203px) Image search: [Google]

210KB, 1203x1203px

>>55224271
>Mages don't have to be assholes.

Anon, that's nothing but crazy talk.

This is not the Chronicles of Rainbows and Fluffy Bunnies, damnit!

Besides, if a mage isn't an asshole to non-mages, he's going to be picked-on by his mage friends.

You don't want to be the muggle-lover or leech-kisser in the Consilium.

>>55224293
According to Dave a Time Mage could for a set amount of time. But it's not permanent.

>vampire charges at mage
>mage temporarily turns it into a human
>kills it like any other sleeper

>>55224343
You actually couldn't do that. You could send a supernatural back in time, even to childhood, but their transformation wouldn't be undone. The errata clears that up.

>>55224418

ALL the supernatural. That's some Hubris, even for an archmage.

>>55220761
A combat specced Mage can out-melee a werewolf. I know it sounds stupid but it's true.

File: cain-slew-his-bro.jpg (84KB, 464x600px) Image search: [Google]

84KB, 464x600px

So with all this talk of mage power level, does mage have anything on the Cain scale of power?

>>55224435
This is somewhat ironic coming from Dave, creator of nice guy characters like Samuel and Excalibur, among others.

>>55224470
*sigh*

Such fucking bait.
The answer is yes.
You know it's yes.
We all know it's yes.

File: 1444009518522.jpg (29KB, 652x457px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 652x457px

>>55224470

File: bfba6eaedc13256a52e1f45d00e1e359.jpg (66KB, 500x663px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 500x663px

>>55224482
No I am actually curious as Cains rules are literally just Cain wins.

>>55224435
I choose to disregard DaveB's words in this case.

Also

>Besides, if a mage isn't an asshole to non-mages, he's going to be picked-on by his mage friends. You don't want to be the muggle-lover or leech-kisser in the Consilium.

Citation needed.

>>55224471

They're not "nice," they just aren't as douchey within the full asshole spectrum.

File: 1548374858493.jpg (113KB, 500x663px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 500x663px

>>55224523
Wrong one buddy

>>55224440
I think you're mixing up the example Disciple effect 'temporal summoning' with what you can do at the Adept level with 'Corriders of Time'.

>>55224543
Thanks friend

>>55224523
Yeah, the joke sheet presented by that mong over a decade ago. Meant only for Masquerade players and nothing else, even if you take it seriously.

4.5/10 bait.

>>55224526
>I choose to disregard DaveB's words in this case.

Sacrilege! Blasphemy! Heresy!

Shush, or you'll anger the Komodo Lord and doom as all.

>>55224523
So I guess Caine can beat the God that cursed him too, eh?

>>55224435
>You don't want to be the muggle-lover or leech-kisser in the Consilium.
That's really depends on the Consilium. Muggle-loving is going to win you lots of points in Consilia where Silver Ladder or Free Council holds sway. Besides, you don't need to express your love and fascination with vampires to use them as your disposable pawns.

>>55224545
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxveHUKxwBU9UUZ4UjZJdEhIM2c/view

Look at the section on Time.

>>55224528
Excalibur literally believes in being a champion for the weak, and puts doing what he believes is right over pretty much everything else. Samuel is pretty nice.

>>55224563
That is the actual rules in masquerade for using Caine I forget what book it was in.

>>55224588

Ok? Is this supposed to disprove something?

>>55224620
Nah, there's multiple versions. It was made by some neckbeard.

>>55224642
Yeah, that you can undo transformations into a supernatural and death with Time. It literally says it right there.

>>55224650
The rules are literally Caine wins, I will take a look for the book it is in.

>>55224663
Don't join the legal profession anon.

You can't undo it with temporal summoning a three dot practice. Got it. No problems.

What I wrote was an four dot practice that explicitly states that you can.

>>55224523
Not this again. That sheet is only for vampire PCs

>>55224579
They'll probably believe it, just from this nonsense.

>>55224523
It only takes Prime 6 to turn Caine back into a smelly human

:^)

File: 1504508957716.jpg (176KB, 770x796px) Image search: [Google]

176KB, 770x796px

>>55220924
>magefags reading this post right now

>>55224760
More like pity for the textbook example of a retarded Acanthus.

>>55224750
>Wanting to offend God and probably turned into a tree and lit on fire or some shit.

>>55224760
Wow we are so mad that this guy is a shit player who doesn't have an ounce of creativity

>>55224721
>What I wrote was an four dot practice that explicitly states that you can.
Which one?

>>55224794
>"Waaaahhh I can't beat an archmage, God daddy!
>"SAVE MEH"

Never took Caine for a narc

File: V20 Lore of the Bloodlines, p. 33.jpg (105KB, 1000x647px) Image search: [Google]

105KB, 1000x647px

>>55222682

Simply put? Yes.

>>55222911
>rarest and unique bloodlines

Gargoyles ain't that rare in the Modern Age ever since they figured out how to naturally embrace, anon. Heck, their population is all but booming, which is actually something a lot of people (especially the Tremere) are getting a bit worried about.

Nor are Kiasyd SUPER RARE like (for example) the non-antitribu Salubri. They're uncommon, yes, but not *that* uncommon in the Modern Nights. V20 Lore of the Bloodlines even mentions how some Kiasyd have gone independent or joined the Camarilla, and that the Sabbat's stance on that was essentially "Meh, we don't really care much either way".

And just in case you weren't aware, VtM is completely open for the possibility of playing characters that were embraced as children.

>Child (3pt. Flaw)
>You were a small child (between five and 10 years old) at the time of your Embrace, leaving your Physical Attributes underdeveloped and making it difficult to interact with some aspects of mortal society. You may not have more than two dots in Strength or Stamina at character creation, except when raising Physical Attributes with blood points, and the difficulties of all die rolls when attempting to direct or lead mortal adults are increased by two. Characters with this Flaw should also take the Short Flaw.
-- V20 Core Rulebook, p. 482

>>55214296
I bet he gets lots of pussy for bearing some similarity to Bale.

>>55224814
God is like Santa he is always watching, he knows when your asleep, he knows when your awake, so be good for goodness sake or he will send you to hell or stick you with a fate worse then death, or just fuck with you because he is kind of an asshole, old testament God is a dick.

>>55220924
>A Vampire has the time to take 50 years to decieve me.
And you need like 12 hours to find him and burn him and his haven to ashes, what's your point?

>A Werewolf is my physical better
Good thing that physical power isn't that relevant.

>The typical way I defeat them as a Mage is with superior Knowledge and/preptime preptime preptime
You are fucking Acanthus. You don't need preptime, you have fucking Time. Basic Divination already tells you the most you have to know; Acceleration makes sure that you act first, and if you fail, you still have Shifting Sands to try again. That's all even before Fate comes into play.

>>55224545
>>55224588

You're both idiots, just for different reasons, the spell is actually 'Rewrite History' on page 190.

>>55224906
Oh, I stand corrected then. Didn't notice the Reach effect tucked away on the next page.

So, what is Jophiel the Obrimos anti-Vampire crusader doing now? How has the story progressed?

>>55224941

I haven't played in that campaign for a while. Also, the posts triggered too many people, and it's no longer worth the effort.

>>55224828
Bloodlines even states that the seven thing is a lie, they do exist and do keep only seven of their group, are diablerized when they embrace. But the thing about them being the only healer castes left is a total lie. There are also the watcher caste that were largely untouched because they are in Asia outside the reach of the Tremere.

>>55224828
>Gargoyles ain't that rare in the Modern Age ever since they figured out how to naturally embrace, anon.
They truly missed agreat opportunity here, instead of embracing they should have figured out how to make gargoyles the old fashioned way to increase dwindling numbers.

>>55224906
fuck my bad.

>>55225124
Where is your bad and how attractive is it on a scale of one to five?

The relative power of the different splats should be entirely determined by what the players are and what the storyteller needs the villain to be.

Mages fighting an elder vampire that you want to be a real challenge? Ignore the real vampire rules and give him powers that make him a valid challenge.

Dick waving about relative splat powerlevels is beyond stupid. oWoD was not designed with the rules or even the meta of the splats to be fully compatible.

>>55225183
Well also elder vampires will very in dangerousness based off their disciplines an elder true brujha would be a nightmare to do anything to. Where an elder gangrel is far less dangerous,even if it is still a danger.

>>55225245
Elder vampires would only be minimally scary to the average Mage if they have actual 'threatening" Devotions.

Zagreus for instance, his Devotion is akin to Fate 4.

>>55225183
>Ignore the real vampire rules and give him powers that make him a valid challenge.
The entire fucking point of mage is POWER, P O W E R. Stop being a triggered fucking vampfaggot and accept that your splat is inferior in EVERY aspect.

>>55225288
>Elder vampires would only be minimally scary to the average Mage if they have actual 'threatening" Devotions.
any vampire can make a devotion with a minimal amount of investment
its the same as creative thamaturgy

>>55225307
>its the same as creative thamaturgy
Not quite. You can learn devotions spontaneously.

>>55225288
Can the average mage stop time? Or alter their perception of time, or move faster through time? Because these are tools vampires can have.
Can Thalmaturgy counterspell mage magic?
Also don't forget access to lobotomized hate fuled war machines.

>>55225390
>Can the average mage stop time? Or alter their perception of time, or move faster through time?
...yes? You can do this with Time up to 3, which is totally average mage level.

>>55225390
>What is the Time Arcanum/Sphere

Thaumaturgy(assuming you're referencing OWoD) has "countermagic", but True Magick(Prime) does it better, along with innate anti-magic based on the Avatar.

>>55225307
>any vampire can make a devotion with a minimal amount of investment
>its the same as creative thamaturgy

It's harder than you'd think, Anon.
Zagreus' Devotion costs a lot to take.

>>55225431
Thalm has a dedicated counter spell line if I remember correctly.
>>55225423
At temporis 3 you can put someone in a time out, by kicking them out of time.

>>55225465
>At temporis 3 you can put someone in a time out, by kicking them out of time.
And that's the only thing you can do, while mage with a Time 3 is limited only by his fantasy and Paradox.

>>55225499
>Mage has no limits.
No wonder everyone calls it a garbage splat, that sounds like a boring power fantasy akin to a free form game.

>>55225556