How do you handle going into epic levels /tg/?

by preferably ending the campaign before it gets that far

By not letting it happen.

>>55201608
By treating it like an epic.

>>55201608
By not going into epic levels. Ever. Or above 16 level, in fact.

>>55201608
By switching systems of course. After level 15 we just break out M&M and stat ourselves there.

>>55201638
>>55201752
>>55201938

Curious, why not though?

>>55201608
How do you define 'epic'?

I'm fairly new to this stuff myself, but from what I've read players can do some pretty ridiculous and potentially encounter-breaking things when they reach higher levels. For instance, (I play 4e btw, so that's my point of reference), at level 26 unyielding sentinel gains a stance where they can just ignore enemy auras, reduce all ongoing damage to 0, can't be forced to move and don't grant combat advantage. That pretty much shuts down any attempt of the DM to use control-type stuff against that player.
There's some other stuff that can cause massive headaches and I have no idea how I might plan to deal with just that, let alone a full party of demigods, each with silly nonsense that would need to be challenged in somewhat different ways to make the game interesting and not one-sided

>>55201608

You don't.

>>55202152

It is not balanced.

>>55202303
My frame of reference is 5e and I consider a epic campaign to be a going above level 20.

>>55202502
>>55202525
I see both of your points. However, could you point at something specific in dnd or in 5e that would make going beyond level 20 something to be avoided?

File: Tippyverse.png (418KB, 1056x2440px) Image search: [Google]

418KB, 1056x2440px

>>55202152
Because in 3.5, where epic levels actually exist, the game becomes casterfest with extraplanar fortresses, astral clones and ten thousand contingency spells long before epic levels. Like Tippyverse, for example.
Epic levels go far beyond even that. It's just too fucking ridiculous.

>>55202590
i don't know if anything specific would stop you from doing so, other than the need to probably make some houserules for things like multiclassing and spell slots. If you're the DM and the players are experienced enough they might come up with ways to exploit the new upper power levels. Then you might find your uber-boss getting whipped around like a chump because of unanticipated and normally impossible combos.

Short answer: depends on how ready you are to deal with bullshit on an unpredictable level

>>55201608

transition to planescape or demogod status, dependingnon party and party goals.

>>55201608
You play 4e, where it makes sense to.

>>55202525
But it is fun?

>>55202525
How is it not balanced?

Why not just get another thing, entity or realm that has similar power levels and beat the PCs with such shit in the first place?

>>55203839
Because the players can use bullshit abilities and they don't want to get challenged by enemies using their own bullshit abilities.

>>55205325
That really sounds like more of a issue with shitty players rather then moving beyond 20th level Anon. This isn't some trashy anime this stuff is designed to actually work in a practical setting.

>>55205325

Thats a problem with the players, not the level

>>55205870
Not him, but I completely understand where the players are coming from. The simplest example of this is sundering.
Sundering weapons is great if you're a martial character fighting a different martial character, because your opponent has no weapon, and there's usually more enemies than players because of the action economy.
However, getting your weapon sundered is goddamn bullshit, because the nature of these games is that even if martials are balanced compared to casters, they still require a weapon to be effective.
The problem only gets worse when you consider the insane abilities that many rpgs give high level characters. Using a 5e monk's Quivering Palm against a player doesn't feel good as a player, because it feels unfair regardless of whether it is or not.

>>55201608
By playing Nobilis.

>>55206112
Good point, however, omae wa mou shindeiru...
Had to. Anyways, considering it from a setting perspective. In game you are fighting gods and stuff, you're not playing a table top but your character is fighting beyond what is mortal against crazy shit. There is going to be stuff that is "hard" and "unfair" because you are pushing the limits of the game and there is almost always a counter. Martial characters can get weapons that are immune to such effects (as they should as epic level) and monks are helpless if a wizard flys up and nukes them from above.

Saying it isn't balance is based on what you are weighing, a Dragon vs level 1 adventures is unbalenced but level 30 party of 5 vs Evil God and his pet Tarrasque sounds about right. Its all about perspective and what you are weighing and its up to the dm to balance it.

>>55201608
I wouldnt know. My GM always starts us at level 1-3 and our games never last long enough to make it past level 10.

>>55205325
That really sounds like a player issue and not a game issue. Try finding a better group

>>55202053
Just got done running a fantasy MnM game myself.

It's pretty fun, everyone should try it.

>>55206097
Sort of. Take epic level spellcasting in 3.5. Any good ELC would have chain gated solars to make a spell which prevents anyone else from casting epic level spells millions of years ago. Like pun-pun, the exploit would have occurred to someone and they would prevent it happening again.

But then they would not be having fun, so of course you can't do that anymore than have an epic wizard who instantly kills the party from his personal demi plane at lower levels.

>>55202662
>Because in 3.5, where epic levels actually exist, the game becomes casterfest
>3.5 becomes casterfest

You don't say

>>55206112

As long as weapons can be repaired it's not a problem. Oh, no, my weapon got damaged, time to switch to my backup. Im level 4 in a 2e game and i have a magic sword, a silver mace, and I'm trying to make a magic lance. Why do you only have one weapon at 20th?

>>55206406

Why would you ever allow a player to do that?

>>55206765
Muh player agency

>>55206794

But seriously, there are certain things that you disallow. If you wouldn't let a player play punpun, why would you let an NPC?

>>55207848
I personally don't see a problem with NPCs doing it a settings lore, and they don't get involved with the story at all. Otherwise they just come across like shitty DMPCs.

>>55206765
In what way are you playing epic if you are kibashing the epic rules?