Alternative History Thread

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>>5518423

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>>55184196

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>>55184362

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Draka bestest and most logical of all alt-hist and not dumb at all.

>>55184371
I love interwar Future Designs. Looking back on what everyone thought was a good idea at the time vs what actually ended up happening makes me chuckle.

>>55184456
Fuck yeah, Second Contact series.

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>>55184254
In a world where the Fourth Crusade never ended...

Can I get an opinion on a setting I'm planning on doing? It involves alternative history a little bit but I'm not sure if the mention of it is dumb fluff or not. The settings supposed to be a horror-esque supernatural urban setting in the states, so I guess historical realism doesn't really matter when involving stuff like that. But still, anyone want me to post the short summary and tell me if it's stupid or not?

>>55185063
Also, I'd maybe like to hear some suggestions on improving it so I can improve the setting and world it takes place in.

>>55185063
Shoot

Would you mind is I just posted my North America alt-his map and description, since I made a few long posts on /his/ about it and got no replies.

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>>55185128
Here's North America in my alt-his.
The US succeeds in 1812, and releases Quebec as an ally, giving them a bit of What's now Maine and New Brunswick in exchange for St. Pierre and Miquelon, which France gifted to Quebec upon her independence. The US and the UK have a deal regarding Newfoundland, where they rule it jointly.
At this time, also, slavery is outlawed in the US, and slaves are moved to Britain's Caribbean colonies. Later on, other Caribbean colonies of other countries are united as one black country, and nearly all blacks in the Americas live there. Other countries own much of the land there, but it's all officially under its own rule. Named Afrocaribbia, speaks Arabic.
Soon after Texas joins the US, civil war breaks out over something else. Maybe regarding being allied with Britain. Quebec betrays the US, take Ontario, and the CSA successfully secedes. All three make a deal regarding the land to the west of the Mississippi, and that land becomes a new country for Indians.
Also, the CSA eventually changes its language to German, to completely cut ties with the USA, and because of its huge influx of Germans. The CSA and USA change their names to The Confederated American States of Dixieland, and The Republic of the United American States of Yankeedom, respectively. Quebec is just Quebec.
Cont

>>55185132
The Indian country, I'll call it Plainsland for now, has a deal with its neighbors, where it will rent out land to them, which they rent out to any of their citizens who want to live over there and farm, log, mine, Etc. It has about an equal number of Indian citizens, and white non-citizens in its borders.
California secedes from Mexico, and gets hold of all of the land currently Yellow or Tan. The Tan land gets filled with Mormon-like people, and secedes from California to become a Theocracy.
Plainsland has no official language, California speaks Spanish, Deseret speaks some made-up language, Alaska speak Russian. The latter three are all white, with California the least so.
Central America stays united, and wins some land from Mexico. Cuba and the Bahamas, as it is know, unites somehow.
Mexico loses many of its influential white Spaniards to California, and, spurred by its recent humiliations, has a nationalist revolution. It changes its language to some Aztec one, and becomes a monarchy. Soon after, Central America changes its language to some Mayan language. Cuba stays Spanish-speaking.
Lastly, Alaska and Hawaii. After Britain lost Canada, Russia took even more land, not fearing losing it to Britain. But during the Russian revolution, the next in line to the throne is in Alaska. He forms the Tsardom of Alaska, and gets an influx of Russian monarchists. The Kingdom of Hawaii takes over most Pacific islands, with support from Australia, which becomes Britain's biggest colony after losing Canada, and take the US' place in opening Japan.

>>55185137
Also, Cuba and the Bahamas gets Bermuda from Britain, Greenland stay Danish, and Yankeedom holds onto even more Virginia in this one.
And that's just North America.
Even if it's kinda stupid, just look at those sexy borders. And tell me you don't like the idea of more languages on the continent.

Copy/pasted straight from my /his/ posts.
Please rate.

>>55185093
https://pastebin.com/Kb70U7zm

Fuckin stupid captcha wasn't working

>>55185211
Now, I wonder why Russia would ever do something so stupid. As long as you explain that with a "The leader was brainwashed by aliens," I'm fine with it. Also, what decade is this?
Seems like a fine setting idea, though you haven't gone into deep detail.

>>55185241
Thank you, the explanation for Russia seems like a good idea th and for decade? I haven't totally decided, just vaguely cold war era

>>55184177
technically this did happen just replace it with a british flag

>>55185274
I hope it's sixties.
Also, pls rate mine.
>>55185132
It's not a setting, I just want to know some opinions.

>>55184196
>trying to hail a cab in NYC

>>55184371
Looks straight out of Fallout.

>>55185132
>Named Afrocaribbia, speaks Arabic.
Nah, they'll be more likely to speak a creole between Malian, Spanish and English.

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>>55184254
>making me read an interesting 120 page webcomic that hasn't been updated in almost two years
Is this how you get your sick kicks?!

>>55185865
Sauce?

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Зa Лeнинa!

>>55185780
I figure the early "politicians," or, really, the quarter black governors put in charge by Britain and the US, would want to have a language to unite the many blacks in their new nation, and would use either Arabic or whatever African language most of the newest arrivals speak. It would, obviously, end up completely different, what with languages straight from Africa and European ones learned by former slaves mixing into the official language.

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>>55185945

>>55185978
Yeah, that's why I said it'd be a creole of those languages, not Arabic. While many of the OG slaves were muslims, they don't really speak Arabic outside of prayers, of which only the learned or the priests would actually understand.
tl;dr: Arabic is a poor choice for Afrocarribeans.

>>55186021
Yeah, it would be a creole.
I just figure that the early governors would think of Arabic pretty early on as a good choice for a nationally unifying language.
What do you think of the rest?

>>55186073
>No independent Tibet
>No independent North-West China

>>55186089
If I remember correctly the pic was from a /tg/ thread, the premise being what if the Chinese civil war ended way later and in a stalemate (basically replacing the south/north Korea war and border)

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I reckon Kaiserreich would make a cool alt-history RPG. Maybe a spy thriller.

>>55186336
>Anyone
>Thinking Savinkov is best Vozhd
Wrangle is objectively the best.

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>>55186418

>>55184430
What the fuck am I looking at.

>>55186173
It was from a shitty attempted cyberpunk setting that had laughable understanding of geopolitics.

>>55186418
Wrangel is the true vozhd, the modern autocrat.

>>55187023
Something where brits, theirs slave and german mercenaries settle someplace in South Africa, and then they somehow magically turn into a superpower over a hundred years and by 1948 they're more advanced than us right now, thanks to eugenics and their rigid caste society.

>>55187475
That's pants on head retarded.

>>55187475
Don't forget the bit where the Draka conquer all of Europe because nobody wanted to ally with Nazi Germany, even though in that universe the military kills Hitler in 1942.

In a world where the Holocaust couldn't have got going, the stigma of the Nazis blinds everyone to the threat of the invading Afrikaans who impale entire conquered populations, publicly advocate for total genocide against all non-Afrikaans.

>>55187475
>World War 2 unfolds in almost the same way despite the European powers previously losing all of their African colonies to a massive continent spanning empire that's 50 years more advanced than everyone else

>>55187475
>>55187747
>>55187795
Is this like a super popular alternate history or something?

>>55187776
The Space Race would certainly have been more interesting if the Soviets had been able to afford to rise to the challenge.

>>55187829
I don't know about anyone else, but I see it referenced a lot in RPG discussions. A lot of my GURPS books have it in their index too. not surprising since I mostly have Alternate History & Who's Who type sourcebooks[/spoilers]

>>55187854
No shit? But it seems like such a poor concept for alternate history.

>>55187837
They were near ready to land on the Moon, but their main guy died, and they were in it nearly entirely just to be first.

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Twilight 2000 V2.2 went with the whole "Yanayev's coup succeeds" thing and did it okay though it was a bit stupid that the Soviets would commit to a world war while in the middle of a civil war

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>>55187837
Not a matter of not being able to afford, the Soviets were actually pretty damn good at managing what they had. They got a lot of shit done first, don'tcha know, and we *still* use Soyuz to this day. It was more like Khrushchev and friends were incompetent bastards who meddled in things they should have left to scientists and actual economists.

Fucking Khruschev...

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>>55187776
All /pol/ memery and such aside, from a purely scientific/technical standpoint I'd be curious how fast the Third Reich would have put a man on the moon (way before the space race with Braun's V rockets and all) if they had won or at least not been utterly wiped.

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>>55184177
Best alternate history series coming through

>>55187974
Yes I'd much rather have Stalin and Bread lines
Yanayev would have been the best Soviet general secretary. Juntas are the truest form of communist.

>>55187990
That depends. Hitler loved his propaganda, but military came before everything else, even more than in the case of the Soviets, who militarized out of fear following the civil war less than the sort of idealized warmongering of the Nazis.

If the Nazis managed to end the war for a time, especially if they managed to actually secure access to minerals (remember, that was something they struggled with), I'd say they could have had spaceflight just as fast as the Soviets.

>>55187882
The author's kind of a nutcase too. Loves lesbians, wicca, and bdsm and puts them in everything he writes.

>>55185881
>Lord of the Sky (Il Signire del Cielo)

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>>55188030
>Yanayev would have been the best Soviet general secretary. Juntas are the truest form of communist.

Stalin did nothing wrong you kulak.
Stalin was a product of the circumstances following the Civil War, and while overly authoritarian, the purges are overplayed and legitimate examples of sabotage downplayed. At the end of the day, Stalin preserved a degree of the workplace democracy the Bolsheviks were founded on while regularly purging the bureaucracy which would later stagnate into something much, much worse

>>55188100
>Forced to enter the army
Nice memes. Soviet female soldiers in WW2 were Mobilization Only troops, not even making category в. After the war, females were discouraged from entering military positions that involved direct combat, like infantry and armoured.

Also Bread Lines.

Would you like to hear my alernate history scenario? It involves a post ww2 proxy war between the US and Japan

>>55188100
>Nearly 40 million dead from the Soviet regime
Come on dude I'm pro-Franco and even that's stepping over the line

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>>55187990

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Always chuckled at that WTF segment from Persona 2: Suddenly the Nazis which were hiding out in their Arctic base return to conquer Japan with their nuclear bombers and advanced mecha because all rumors turn true and somebody apparently thought that up.

>>55187829
Its has a vocal fanbase, so kinda? The whole things is super pulpy and wouldnt even generate much controversy, but the author is super up his own ass. People point out the plot holes, logical inconsistencies and the Uber (as in the comic) teir bullshitting about being a wank fic and he gets super defensive.

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>>55188024
>>55185945
The Volkshalle is a meme, but it's a cool-looking meme

>>55188042
Well the main difference between a rocket and a missile is the payload, and they certainly had the expertise - if you've got a Hitler allayed by the knowledge that you've used the race to develop wunderwaffen missile tech, or a successor who's not as militant then I could see it

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>>55188430
>Breitspurbahn
Aw yiss.

>>55188491
>wheels are not swastikas
ONE JOB

>>55188193
How does Japan survive World War Two?

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>>55188200

1) That number seems to change every time I hear it

2) The oft-cited death counts are both ludicrous if you know anything about Soviet populations and descended from people like Robert Conquest, who cites hearsay and worked for the IRD (Information Research Department) of the British propaganda wing

3) Don't try to guilt me fashboy, Uncle Joe actually left his country better than he entered it. Your idol left behind a legacy of shitty crosses built on slave labour and ineffectual parliaments staffed with ex-fascists.

When Francisco left the world, his people all agreed never to talk about his again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pact_of_forgetting

Over fifty years after Stalin's death, he's still fondly remembered.
http://www.newsweek.com/putin-behind-stalin-top-russias-most-outstanding-people-poll-629032
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2017/05/12/stalin-is-far-more-popular-with-russians-than-gorbachev-infographic/#6fba2fb16635

>>55188569
>Germany doesn't fold
>States don't steal their scientific progress
>Axis first to have nukes

>>55188430
>Well the main difference between a rocket and a missile is the payload
What? The difference is one is guided the other is not.

>>55188586
So your setting has no foundation in reality got it.
>>Germany doesn't fold
Possible but very unlikely.
>>States don't steal their scientific progress
Most of what the states stole related to rockets not nukes.
>>Axis first to have nukes
OTL America had nukes before Germany fell the original plan was to nuke Berlin to force Germany to surrender but they surrendered before that. Also Germany had a garbage nuclear program that was going along the wrong path to build a nuclear weapon.

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>>55188597
Wrong type of rocket.

>>55188586
The axis nuclear program was abysmal though, and the US didn't steal any of it for their nukes

>>55188491
Nazi transportation was immensely rad (except when it was horses) - hell, the Hindenburg was even designed with Helium in mind, the US had just stopped exporting it at the time

>>55185945
What could have been :(

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>>55188706

>>55188779
What, Fascism? The self-destructive ideology of endless war? That thing that runs out of steam and dies the second it hits a wall? That bullshit founded on eugenics by LARPers pretending to be templars?

But sure, cool buildings, that makes it better.

>>55188802
Phil K. Dick is my jam.

Ooh, y'know what'd be cool?
MitHC Cyberpunk. Grungy industrial sprawls for the Reich, Megatowers and glitz for Japan

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>"Flying Fortress? Pff, hold my burger..."

>>55188853
Why are half the props backwards?

>>55188146
From a utilitarian perspective, it would be dumb to put (fertile) women in direct combat. If there's no chance of them reproducing and they have both the prowess and enthusiasm to fight, then I wouldn't stop them.

>>55188067
What? Can you tell me more about how the author inserts his magical realm?

>>55188576
Propaganda and youth impressionability can go a long way in cementing legacy the way one wants to. Of course I don't know how people who lived prior to Stalin felt, so relatively speaking they thought things have gotten really good.

>>55188200
More people around usually means more people to kill and do the killing. What I really want to know is the percentage of people in each nation that was killed by tyranny.

>>55188779
>>55188803
On top of that I don't like buildings that look like they're bleeding like >>55188802. And grey is very unpleasant to look at. Beige and white are bright colors that are pleasant to look at, but grey is gloomy and cold.

>>55187974
Dude, we took slightly longer on everything because we did everything way better. Everything we did was way safer, way stronger, and built to last.

>>55188013
my brethren of darker pigmentation

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>>55188343
Ah, now I finally know where this series of screenshots is from.

>>55185132
>Dixieland
>Yankeedom
I'll rate 7/10, you had me going for quite a while until the end there

Friend of mine came up with an Alt-History thing which lead up to the Not-Fallout TTRPG with fantasy races like Bugbears, Elves, Dwarves, etc.

Long story short, humans are everywhere, Eastern Europe nobility/society were elves, Dwarves were Scandinavian, Russian, Western Europe cultures. Bugbear and Goblins are in Africa. Orcs are the Eastern USA Indian tribes, the western USA tribes are Gnolls, Aztec/Incan society are saurians lizard folk, other places needed to be fleshed out.

Stuff that changed: the Orcs did not suffer mass die-offs since they had hardy immune systems.
Human colonists were welcomed and their elven handlers/nobles/owners died to "Arrow in the head" disease. This isn't discovered until centuries later, cue American revolution.
No Indian wars for conquest, and since the original human colonists were effectively elven slaves, no Civil War.
WWI we stay out.
WWII, Operation Valkyrie works, Hitler assassinated along with his psychotic inner-circle, new chancellor asks for America's assistance, we consider it.
England launched a surprise attack on New York, we join the Axis against England/France/Russia.
Russia vows to "Fight to the last". We drop a nuke on Moscow when Stalin was giving a speech. Russia surrenders the next day.

The rest is alternate future leading to fallout where characters like mine can exist; an Apache Gnoll Bodyguard with an assault rifle and intimidate checks because I'm a savage who eats the hearts of my enemies.
(It was a CULTURAL thing, and we stopped that in the 1850's when Robert E. Lee and Ulysses S. Grant told the tribes that Orcs and Humans consider it desecrating the dead, not a gesture of RESPECT!)

>>55187974
I always love this picture because it's relentlessly salty

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>>55188137

>>55187974
Your image forgot the part where the USA still sends people to space well the ussr died.

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>>55189056
> What is Challenger?
> What is Columbia?

Mate, both sides had their failures and kept trying shit until it worked. The Soviets get more flak for it because they covered it up, which was dumb.

>>55189489
All commies are salty. Salty at capitalism

>>55189518
USSR didn't "Die" it was forcibly dissolved against the people's wills by the work of fucking Yeltsin with the compliance of Gorbachev. Stagnation was largely to blame on the claustrophobic embrace of the Post-Stalin bureaucracy. Between the shift towards an export economy when one of Stalin's big goals was self-sufficiency, the overspecialisation of Soviet regions under Khrushchev, the Corn-Lord's disastrous attempt to revitalize agriculture and subsequent negligence in said area, and the mass corruption and personal petty politics that went on both in forums and factories, the economy turned into a strange hybrid attempting to be capitalistically socialist. Such an attempt resulted only in the Soviet economy eating itself and the growth of a hegemonic new ruling class of bureaucrats, of whom Yeltsin was the highest and most final example.

>>55189518
>the part where the USA still sends people to space
That sentence needs a huge friggin' asterisk at the end though...

Anyone have art of hyper advanced dinosaurs returning to take earth back from the filthy monkeys that inherited it after their exodus to the stars?

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>>55189702
Gotchu senpai

>>55184456
That reminds me. I still don't understand why the Dawn of Victory devs decided to drop the "inspired by Turtledove's Worldwar series" part of their mod.

>>55189451
Exactly how I felt.

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>>55187023
>What the fuck am I looking at
One of the dumbest alt-histories ever created, and in a world where pic related exists, that's saying something.

>>55189655
>one of Stalin's big goals was self-sufficiency
Yay, so then you get a super-sized North Korea stretching across 11 time zones. Even regulated capitalism has its issues, but communism has uniformly been ass all the way down.

>>55189873
Maybe they figured Worldwar was too obscure by now?

>>55189873
>>55190339
Really, it was inspired by Worldwar? Makes sense.

God, I loved those books when I was kid. Shame Turtledove's gone to shit recently.

>>55190314
The fuck does a self-sufficient economy have to do with NK, who are decidedly not self-sufficient thanks to shitty lands and the US utterly levelling their entire country into the ground in the Korean War.

Are you saying we should all be export economies like Venezuela? That went well once oil prices got shat up by the Saudis pumping out shit tons of it to fuck over their rivals.

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>>55184251
>>55184371
>>55188137
I love this stuff. Contributan.

>>55188100
>using mio chan to promote muh ideology
this joke of a thread

>>55190528
Here, video is pretty damn good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czr-98yo6RU

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>>55190470
>The fuck does a self-sufficient economy have to do with NK

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juche

>US utterly levelling their entire country into the ground in the Korean War
South Korea wasn't doing so hot either. And Japan got firebombed and nuked - twice - in WW2. Great Britain was bombed to hell and back by the Germans in the same war, France was occupied and ravaged...I could go on. But do you know what they all have in common besides the fact that afterwards they rebuilt themselves relatively quickly? They weren't married to a flawed economic model which has failed hard everywhere it's been tried.

Communism doesn't work, has never worked and will never work. Deal with it.

>>55190652
That ship at the end is actually almost dead-on to how passenger ships developed. And that airplane is actually fairly close in terms of passenger capacity and speed of modern air liners. So they weren't completely off when it came to international travel.

>>55189451
>until the end there
What's the matter with the end? And do you dislike Dixieland and Yankeedom?

>>55191055
Really, I love it! And think about the rivalry! And, the absolute best part, fucking naval warfare in the Great Lakes. Yankeedom would probably go to war with Dixieland and Quebec at least three more times, even into the '40s.

>>55191055
Yankeedom sounds like a what the dixies would call it
The confederacy of dixieland souns cool as fuck though

All this thread is doing for me is remindibg me how much bullshit was involved in canceling east vs west in favour for HOI NUMBER FUCKING 4
I DON'T WANT TO PLAY WW2 AGAIN
GIVE ME THE COLD WAR

>>55186336
>Redditball

>>55188273
where is this from? I've been looking for the source of it for some time and where other art of series came from.

IIRC it's some obscure french RPG with a three way cold war.

I recall seeing more pictures from this same artist/series

>>55191604
What would you call them, then?
Remember, they called themselves Yankees.

>>55191728
>Alternate British SAS
Special Space Service

>>55191799
Yankees is a nickname.

You wouldnt call the UK "the United Torries of Britain." or Russia "the Russian Federation of Ivans."

Both of those names sound fucking idiotic.

The "United American States" works. Or "American Republic" or "Republic of American States.

for the CSA you could use "The Confederacy of American States" "American Confederated States" "The Confederacy of America" and a few more examples. You could also replace America with the word "Dixie" and I think it would work just fine. Dixieland and Yankeedom sounds like someone from the other side is insulting them

>>55192497
Yankee is a legitimate demonym for people from the Northern United States, and New England in particular.
Also, I just think it sounds nice. That's really my biggest reason for making up that whole alternate history. Nice borders and names.

>>55192497
Confederate states of dixie, Union of american states

>>55191728
Idea
>Britain avoids declining after the war and forms that union with france during the suez crisis prompted by another unspecified crisis elsewhere, the United Republic is born as the worlds third superpower and manages to beat the ussr and usa to the moon using ascension island as their launch pad.

>>55192543
The word Yankee is fine. Calling it "Yankeedom" sounds like someone is insulting them.

Yankee is like Ivan, Tory, Jerry. A familiar nickname. Making it part of the official name of a country seems really off. But you may be able to get Yankee to work.

Yankeedom does not and "The Republic of the United American States of Yankeedom" is fucking insane,

>>55192547
These fit perfectly. Respect the heritage of where they came from, different from each other that you wont confuse them with the rivals or the originals.

>>55192586
Or you know, they use Kourou in Guiana.

>>55192625
I just felt it would be funny for the name to be ridiculously long, but if it's that bad, I'm open to just "The United States of Yankeedom," or "The United American States of Yankeedom. I'd really like Yankee to somehow be incorporated, though. If -dom is bad, what would be better?
Also, other than the name of Yankeedom, you like the rest?

>>55192586
>Declining colonial power avoids decline by fusing with another declining colonial power until their total GDP is slightly less than that of Japan
Nah... nah.

>>55192673
> funny for the name to be ridiculously long
Oh ya its funny, but Im assuming you want to make a universe that is believable for people to live in. Which is where the name becomes insane.

>"The United States of Yankeedom," or "The United American States of Yankeedom"
I already made my argument against that word so ill say I think the better sounds better. This issue is that Yankee and Dixie arnt the same thing, Yankee is a nickname for people/culture while Dixie is a nickname for land. Its why Dixie works.

If you are dead set on working with Yankee, treat the word Yankee like Dixie so "United Yankee States" (Basically replace the word American with Yankee and it can work)

The rest of the history works just fine. Would be willing to play a roleplaying game in the universe

>>55192807
So, Confederation of Dixieland and United Yankee States is good by you?
I haven't finished the rest of the map, yet, but have ideas for the rest of it. Thanks for the input.

>>55185343
kek'd

>>55192851
>Confederation of Dixieland
I personally prefer "Dixie" but yes I think both of those work fine. You are good to go.

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Ministry of Space is definitely one of my preferred alts. Britain uses its superior commando network to capture the german rocket scientists before the States, as well as intercept several shipments of holocaust gold headed to Switzerland. They use this to kickstart Space exploration and keep the empire together by providing large numbers of manual labour jobs to India, making them more pro-british. (giving people jobs works).

>>55186336
I just finished my Brazilian Empire campaign and puppted all of South America, and I was thinking how a american continent with three strong actors Canada (Market Liberal), C.S.A (syndicalist) and the Brazilian Empire could coexist (national populist).

And Mitteleuropa won the second Weltkrieg

they wouldn't

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What if the byzantines were able to recover from the muslims conquests and were able to restore the empire borders under Trajan.

All of this mantaining a highly centralized government and the Basileus having absolute power?

cataphracts are still a thing also

>>55187023
All of the losers of wars moved to South Africa and kept practicing slavery after the British outlawed the practice by calling it serfdom and then conquered the world because everyone else is stupid.

>>55188200
>40 million people killed by Stalin
>20 million people died in WW2 in the USSR
>The USSR's population only marginally decreased between 1941 and 1945

>>55193353
Britain will be a space power too, we have a long history of explorers.

>>55193681
Yeah the story also accelerates the development speed, because the head of the ministry still operates on the battle of britain mentality, when he pilots a space plane that has yet to be properly tested, so the heat shield fails, but he is able to semi-crash land it because its still a plane.

>>55189725
delete this

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>>55188779
>Nazi's
>doing anything besides burning shit down and getting germans killed

no

>>55190658

>Communism doesn't work,

>Communism turned third world shitholes into world superpowers that threatened to overwhelm and destroy capitalist democracies

Funny how Americans can think both of those at the same time and see no contradiction.

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A better world

>>55194557
What third world power became a world threat with communism?

>>55194557
Ah, no, Communism turned third world shitholes into pseudo-superpower shitholes with lots of 2nd-rate tanks and nukes, a crumbling national infrastructure and a standard of living lower than modern day South Africa. The only threat they posed was the extinction of the human species in a global nuclear war.

Byw, assuming you're not a troll, and that you're this >>55190470 >>55189655 >>55187974 guy,
you're the first actual USSR-apologist I've ever run into anywhere, except for that one chick at university. Lots of neo-Nazis and Holocaust deniers on the web, but precious few fans of that other great slaughterhouse of the 20th century. So congrats. I guess.

>>55194807
>What third world power became a world threat with communism?
Russia.

>>55194836
>>What third world power became a world threat with communism?
>Russia.
Technically Russia was "second world"

>>55194584
Shame the global population is like, 5000.

>>55194836
>great slaughterhouse of the 20th century

>what was capitalist colonialism?

>What was the first world war?

Pretending the USSR was somehow uniquely murderous is the only joke youre making comrade.

>>55190658
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juche
> is the official state ideology of North Korea
Are you implying that because they say they want to be self-sufficient, they are?

>North Korea
> officially the Democratic People's Republic of Korea
...so if they say they're a democracy, they are?

> They weren't married to a flawed economic model which has failed hard everywhere it's been tried.
But it didn't. Russia and Cuba did pretty well.
>the USSR collapsed
It pulled Russia out of the Dark Ages, made it into a world superpower and lasted for 72 years, which is longer than the current constitutions of France and Germany have been in use.
The difference was that Lenin and Castro actually knew their shit when it came to politics, and Kim Il-Sung was a megalomaniac retard.

No political system is inherently bad or good, it all depends on how much people care.

Polite sage because this isn't actually about alt-history.

>>55194947
Communism did not manage to mechanise the soviet economy. What happened was that Communism used Slave Labour to permit Russia to exploit resources that they now had the technology to do so. Most of the mechanisation/reform of the economy had happened under Alexander II and III, its simply that the communists reduced the time it took to see the full effects, by creating artificial famines to reduce the number of people who had to be supplied with the new skills and tools. The cities were basically already fully developed before the revolution, all communism did for them is ruin a bunch of historical buildings, and kill a bunch of poor people, , which lessened the impact of the artificial famines.

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>>55194894
>>Pretending the USSR was somehow uniquely murderous is the only joke youre making comrade.
No, it's actually more murderous than Nazi Germany, though not as bad as Maoist China. See chart. Oh wait, that's "fake news" amirite?

>>55194947
>Are you implying that because they say they want to be self-sufficient, they are?
>...so if they say they're a democracy, they are?
Autism. You asked what self-sufficiency has to do with North Korea, and I answered.

Lenin and Castro founded the dictatorships which lead their nations to ruin. Didn't Lenin say that "a good Communist is also a Chekist"? Yeah, I believe he did:

>In 1921 the Troops for the Internal Defense of the Republic (a branch of the Cheka) numbered at least 200,000. These troops policed labor camps; ran the Gulag system; conducted requisitions of food; subjected political opponents to secret arrest, detention, torture and summary execution; and put down rebellions and riots by workers or peasants, and mutinies in the desertion-plagued Red Army.

Not an apologist for tyranny, sorry.

>No political system is inherently bad or good, it all depends on how much people care.

Annnnd we're done here. I'll let you have the last word.

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Operation Overlord goes ahead. The Soviets invade from the north, the Americans from the south. War ends in a divided Japan, the Emperor allowed a figurehead position in the south only to prevent the need for genocide against the Japanese people. The US props up the Republic of China against the communists to prevent TWO such nations from existing in the Far East.

A vicious spy war splits North and South Japan. You and the other members of the party are a cell embedded deep in enemy territory. There is no guarantee of survival.

The year is 1963, the year the world ends...

What system can I use for a real-world spy thriller?

>>55193626
I remember when I started as the county of Achaia and ended up finishing the EU4 export with restored Rome owning all of North America, Europe, Africa, Australia, half of Asia and all of Japan.
The only other powers were the Inca Empire owning all of S.A and an Indian empire that controled the other half of Asia.

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>>55187926
>Twilight 2000
Best rpg I've ever played. Not because of the system (we used v1.0 d100 system & errata) though we liked it crunchy as it was. It was simply the moment in time we played it: late 80ies. All that shit seemed very possible back then. It also helped that we all lived in the center of our favorite module of them all, pic related

>>55195784
>No, it's actually more murderous than Nazi Germany, though not as bad as Maoist China. See chart.

>No British famines in India

>No opium wars and collapse of China

>No slaughter of North American first nations.

>No millions killed in Africa other than by Belgium

>No deaths in capitalist countries due to starvation, lack of healthcare, pollution, violence, or any other cause.

>Literally every death in China is the fault of Mao alone.

So basically you'll skip learning history and eat whatever Andrzej Paczkowski is serving without checking any references.

Try not being a chump for once in your life. The British killed more people in India alone than Mao and Stalin combined.

>>55196071
>slaughter of North American first nations
You mean the ones caused mostly by disease?
Other than those you're gonna have a hard time coming even close to the other guys on this list.
>No deaths in capitalist countries due to starvation, lack of healthcare, pollution, violence, or any other cause.
>violence is a capitalist disease comrade
Do I need to tell you what this line of thinking did in the USSR?
>pollution is a capitalist disease
Bro, did you know: the USSR was responsible from turning the agricultural economy into an industrial one.
They didn't count pollution in that chart, because it's about... y'know, killing people, not dealing with some 21st issue that wasn't even widely regarded at the time these people were in power. But if they did then yes, Stalin would've "caused" a ton of pollution.
>starvation
The last one is funny because the US lead the food relief efforts and famine was considered eliminated around half the 20th century in the US.
>the deaths caused by Mao's regime aren't mao's fault
>counting wars in something that is talking about killing your own people through your regime's actions
>millions killed in Africa by o- ...
I'm convinced you're either trolling or barely outta HS.

>>55196180
your own people or people within your territory*

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I fucking love this shit

>>55196071
Oh yeah and:
>No British famines in India
Sorry, but to be the 'slaughterhouse of the 20th' century you're gonna have to tally 20th century deaths. Not Victorian Era deaths.

>>55196180
>I'm convinced you're either trolling or barely outta HS.
Its probably both, the the graduating HS thing is up for debate. Standards seem to be much lower for schooling and education, so graduating HS (or even college) doesn't mean much anymore

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>>55196224

>>55196180

>I'm going to ignore the points the directly refute my claims and fixate on a technicality to pretend I still have a case.

Yes your numbers have been debunked. Read better history books.

Alternate history where colonialism never happened and hundreds of millions weren't killed by capitalism would make an interesting setting however.

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>>55196245

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>>55196270

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>>55196284

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>This robot is trained to fuck your mouth
Imma stop replying to myself because that's gay

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>>55196265
Now you listen here son, I don't know what the heck you think this country is, but we don't take any pinkos.
Well, how bout you go back to Korea or Vietnam or wherever you types come from and just starve in peace.

>>55196265
Go home antifa. You give rational people a bad name

>>55195964
plz halp

>>55196311
This is my favorite of this thread

Niggers need to remember that the Soviets didn't go to war to "save the world from the Nazis" or anything. Just the opposite, in fact.

Poland: the Christ of Europe

>>55196375
>>55196392

>we don't want no book learnin' around here

>>55195964
>Operation Overlord

Operation Overlord happened in real life, when the Western Allies invaded France. You're thinking of Operation Downfall.

>>55196422
And I'd prefer it if you stopped projecting and resorting to ad hom bullshit. It doesn't win arguments or prove points. It makes you look like a fucking moron.

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>>55194836
>What third world power became a world threat with communism?
>Russia.

Fucking savage

>>55196431
Derp. Yeah, I meant Downfall. Silly me.

>>55196419
>Poland: the Christ of Europe

The country who collaborated hardest with Hitler early on, and backed them up in Munich, and was hoisted by their own petard.

>>55196445

>literally no arguments left except butthurt crying about ad hominem and not even using it correctly.

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>Living in the "No North American Union" reality

Pain

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>>55196422
No, we just don't want someone trying to deviate one clear statement by changing the goalpost all because of his shitty political views.
Basically: nobody fucking cares but you take
"but precious few fans of that other great slaughterhouse of the 20th century. So congrats. I guess."
and turn it into a rant about how brits killed a lot of people in the 1800s and that the europeans and capitalism are to blame for disease and every native death in the americas since the 1500s (despite, again, there not being a significant amount of them in the 20th century...).
But sure, I'm the one trying to move things around and use "technicalities".
It's not that you're a dumb ass commie who needs to pretend you're arguing about something to else to even come close to have a point.

Fuck off, and have fun talking to the hand. Or go back to /pol/ - /leftypol/

>>55196456
>t-they deserved it!

Fuck off back to >>>r/tankies

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>>55196456
One would think after 169 years you'd get tired.

>>55194623
I remember this!

>>55187990
What you have to understand is how huge the Apollo program was. It occupied 2.2% of the GDP of the largest economy on earth for a number of years. Each Saturn 5 launch cost 375 million dollars. In addition, the Apollo project drew from all fields of science. Questions were answered from how do you create the mighty f1 engine to how do we keep dust and glass micro fragments from fucking up our astronauts on the way there. So it can be assumed that the German moon effort would not be accomplished prior to the real life Apollo program.

>>55195784
>more murderous than Nazi Germany
They lost before they could get it really going.
They planned to murder almost everyone east of Germany.

>Alternate Universes where Russia or Germany take over the US
>No Alternate universes where the US takes over Russia or Germany
why

>>55196573
>US conquers Germany or Russia
>Alt-History
Nice meme russkie.

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>>55196573
An alternate universe where the Duce screws everybody else and manages to make an Euro-African Empire.

Hitler becomes a footnote of history.

>>55196586
I dunno, I would kinda like to see an AU where an Axis power gets Americanized
Like Japan, how different would things be if it was the 51st state?

>>55196071
>Britain deliberately killed more than 100 million people in India in the 19th century.

Yeah, no.

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>>55196573
America, throughout history, has been incredibly reluctant to occupy enemy territory permanently, instead preferring to set up "democratic" puppet governments once they're beaten. They did it with Japan, Germany, and various other smaller countries they've "liberated" during their time as a world power. In order to justify the occupation of oversea lands America would need to adopt a more radical ideology, which means it leans either towards the US or towards the USSR, which at that point it's simply easier to justify the change in political climate came from losing the war and being set up as a puppet government itself. Occupied America is stupid though and would never happen, American puppet governments have always been more believable to me

>>55184254

Is there a name for the type of cape the Kommander is wearing? The half shoulder cape kind?

>>55196617
That's the joke.

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>>55196651
Meant to type Germany instead of US in the leaning towards sentence but you get the idea

>>55196651
>They did it with Japan, Germany,

...Nations that TO THIS DAY still have US military presence?

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>>55196689
Having like 3 military bases on their mainland is a completely different scenario from full scale military occupation like northern France during WW2. They also have military bases in the UK but they're never been conquered by the US. Same goes for Norway, Australia, etc. Military bases doesn't mean shit other than that they're allies

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Alright that's about it. I have more but I have to wake up early tomorrow and still need to jack off

What would've happened if Persia took over Greece and continued until the western border of the balkans?

>Alternate history
>Always "what if Nazis didn't lose" or "Soviet Stronk" shit

Let's go a different route. What if China somehow managed to come out on top after WWII?

Or what if the sun never set on the British Empire?

What if the Italians weren't incompetent in WWII?

>>55196071
not him but I'm pretty sure that chart is just supposed to be for Dictatorships(although in that context I'm not sure if Leopold II really counts)

>>55196909
>What if China somehow managed to come out on top after WWII?
Japan was reduced to a radioactive crater and everyone in Europe died during the Russian Winter, including the Russians.

>Or what if the sun never set on the British Empire?
The world wars never happened.

>What if the Italians weren't incompetent in WWII?
Let's be at least somewhat realistic anon.

>>55184254
That's some bad German

>>55185945
Is this paradise?

>>55191733
Walküre
It's a Spanish RPG

>>55194836
Third world powers are a product of the cold war, they are powers that were not advanced enough to be communist or capitalist. After the cold war the word is no longer actually relevant. And is used to refer to shitty nations.

>>55186336
Kaiserreich is my shit in Darkest Hour

>play Canada
>the Second Weltkrieg devolves into the British Empire, the United States, the French Nationalists, and the colonial remnants of Germany against the French/British Syndicalists and Russian-controlled Europe

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>>55197237
I saw some documentary a while ago about Speer's model of Germania which survived and is still around the basement archive of some German art school in like a row of a dozen shelves of boxes.

>>55197454
I want this in ingrish so bad

>>55188876
It's a push-pull configuration. Some historical aircraft did use it. One reason being they can fit twice the engines in the same amount of space.

>>55198115
It's not even a push-pull - those are gun turrets on the opposite side of the engines.

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>>55198115

This is what a push-pull of that kind would look like.

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>>55192497
>Russian Federation of Ivans
my sides

>>55188079
Google comes up with nothing.

>>55188721
>Soviet
>Holding a thompson with a drum mag
>Not holding a PPSh-41

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>>55188802
This anon is being referenced by this Anon >>55189033, but on >>55189033 it doesn't show text, what the fuck?

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>>55184251

>>55184344
I can't understand what that thing in the top of the photo attached to the plane is.

>>55193353
Doesn't it end on something like "shiiit, is that pilot a nigger AND a woman? next they'll ask for the right to vote" or something?

>Alt-history!
>>The nazis won WW2!
>>[country] turned turbo-nazis and outnazied the nazis and won WW2!
>Also there's robots and psionics everywhere!
Why is it like that nearly everytime. Can't we have something else more often.

>>55196659
I believe it is called a mantle.

>>55185945
I never realized the Nazis had such a hard on for elevated highways.

>>55199001
I always liked the notion of a more careful and deliberate WW2 Germany. They space out their offensives with years of consolidation and modernization. One little piece of land at a time, maybe a country here and there, encouraging small groups to join the slowly growing Reich through trade, funding and arming guerrilla groups and secessionists in foreign nations.

>>55199066
>I always liked the notion of a more careful and deliberate WW2 Germany.
I always think the best for Germany would have been if Adolf would have died in one of his many assassination attempts after building up the NSDAP and with someone actually sane and realistic replacing him as Fuehrer.

Alternatively not FUCKING UP THE MOLOTOV-RIBBENTROP PACT AND INVADING THE SOVIET UNION...
I mean you'd have Francoist Spain, Vichy France, Germany (plus French, Dutch, Czech, Polish etc. occupied provinces), Axis Hungary and Romania, Mussolini Italy. Simply let Russia be, point your middle-finger at Britain over the Channel and maybe have a few campaigns in Africa. I mean that must be enough Lebensraum or whatever that term was.

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>>55199166
Also, Atlantropa (building dams in the Mediterranean to drain parts of it for new land).

>>55192708
I don't know, if you make the US less obsessed with making the British dismantle their Empire it might work

>>55198842
I don't think it's "attached" I think it's being shot at - I reckon it's a wing, a bit of fuselage, and a tailplane

>>55188013
>Best alternate history series
>jewish ass-kissing
anon, i have some really bad news for you....

>that soviet building with Lenin on top
That building had a name. Palace of Soviets or something like that.
Anyways, the Lenin on top of the building is as tall as the Statue of Liberty.

Speaking of the Statue of Liberty, in T-131 instead of that book and the torch it's carrying a sword and a shield. It was gifted to the US by the Germans and it looks towards France and England in hate and defiance for their repeated invasions of US soil. It's also not called the Statue of Liberty.

>>55188013
>How do you turn this on

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>>55196659
It looks like someone combined a Pelisse with a Cloak.

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>>55184254
If only He had won ;_;

>>55188803
You have no clue of what fascism is if you think it is about "lol" endless war. Stop absorbing Hollywood propaganda and actually read Mein Kampf.

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>>55199507
>in T-131 instead of that book and the torch it's carrying a sword and a shield. It was gifted to the US by the Germans and it looks towards France and England in hate and defiance for their repeated invasions of US soil. It's also not called the Statue of Liber
That actually sounds pretty dope.

>>55193626
This could work specially If you point out How different the cultures between the imperial heartland (Balkans and Anatolia) to the recently aquired western provinces like France and Britain.

>>55188013
Nantucket is better desu

>>55199992
IDK, really.
Too focused on war, IMHO, tbqh ...
And Belisarius series did that that shit much better.

>>55193626
Problem is that West really had enough of Byzantine bullshit and we're glad that they don't have to deal with them. Cassiodorus a great patriot of Roman culture, and zealous defender of Latin simultaneously fought off Byzantine influence. And he was not alone. West really, really didn't like cesaropapism and beuocracy of Byzantim.
To this scenario to be even slightly possible you woudl have to have Pope moved into direct Ceasar influence (it ain't happening since Pope was the one who crowned ceasar at least once and it's enough of precedence) and you would have to have Cluniac Reforms to just don't happen.

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All I want to do is play a game set in the popular mechanics timeline.

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>>55200341

>>55199725
anon, for fucks sake, if you want to know something about a ideology read it first, endless war is LITERALLY a part of fascism. That's like saying class warfare is not a part of communism

>>55200389
No it is not. Fascism acknowledges the fact that struggle for survival between competing groups of humans is a constant factor of our species existence, and does not shy away from war if it is deemed necessary for the survival of ones own people. However, fascism does not promote endless, pointless war.

I am read well in fascism, because I am a fascist, more precisely, I am a national socialist, because given everything that I have learned so far about the world and the human condition, it is the most logical world view to adopt if I wish to ensure the security and well being of my people, who are the only people about whom I care about in this world.

God, /tg/ really is a lefty board, isn't it? I'd much rather have Nazis than Commies.

>>55194584
delete this

>>55196501
>Three British Colombia's
>Two Dakotas
>Fucking Labrador is a state
>But literally over 50 million people are stuck together in New York
I guess it only helps make up for the fact that Republicans will have a hard time winning in a 33% white country.

>>55200389
>>55200456
>>55200531

>Red and Skins brawling over who's shit stinks the worst.

You should both kys, tbqh, IMHO.

>>55199206
That's the dumbest thing imaginable, and no sane person anywhere has ever thought differently.

>>55200582
>>>55200531 (You)
Oh, no, I'm no Nazi. I just prefer them over Communists.
Why has this thread turned political in the first place?

>>55200615
Alternative history threads always turn political because the history of the past 100 years is so intensely colored by politics and propaganda.

>>55200629
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/5f/a1/cc/5fa1ccadb2cdd018f62679f3f7ca51e3.jpg

>>55200615

Standard Alternate history bunch:
>Nazi apologists
>Commie affirmatives
>Redneck degenerates
... do I have to go on?

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>>55200645 #
I see we are kindred spirits.
I basically have three modes of being, exercising/jogging while listening to speeches/audio books, immersing myself into my hobbies, and thinking/ranting about politics.

>>55200658 #
>nazi apologists.
There is nothing to apologize for, except for losing the war.

>>55200713
>I basically have three modes of being, exercising/jogging while listening to speeches/audio books, immersing myself into my hobbies, and thinking/ranting about politics.
No job, huh?

>>55200727
I am an university student, so no, not right now.

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>>55200713
>I see we are kindred spirits.
I basically have three modes of being, exercising/jogging while listening to speeches/audio books, immersing myself into my hobbies, and thinking/ranting about politics.
God, it's like reading those cringey okcupid profiles

>>55200713
>There is nothing to apologize for, except for losing the war.
Having fun being an edgy university student eh?

>>55200747
I have no interest in using online dating crap, so I wouldn't know.

>>55200735
>getting a job with no job experience
good luck, pucciboi

>>55200759
If going against the narrative of the allies, who were, and still are, enemies of my people makes me edgy in your eyes, so be it. I care for nothing else than ensuring the survival and sovereignty of my people.

>>55200766
What makes you think that I intend to have no jobs during my studies? I simply right now, have no job.

Why do none of these "if the Nazi's won" alternative histories have the Nazi's collapsing just like the Soviets?
It's not like they would have been capitalists, would a military dictatorship really have lasted longer than a bureaucratic dictatorship?

>>55200768
What, do you not say "kin" anymore finnfag?

\>55200768
>my people

Grow a spine and some individualism. I bet you are an American mutt who claims to be a 'pure-blooded german' and engages in this autism

I hope you are baiting for your own good and mmental health

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>>55200760

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>>55200777
It's not cool enough - there's so little realism involved with the Nazi victory you can afford to ignore things like economies, and in many cases physics as well.

Which honestly is fine, it lets rad shit like the Volkshalle and mech-soldiers like >>55196806 exist (Speer did some tests with big blocks of concrete, Berlin was too swampy for it) for the sake of being cool rather than trying to twist logic and shit for it

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>>55200781
My people and my kin mean roughly the same in Finnish.

>>55200783
I am a Finn. And pure individualism is bollocks. No man is a total individual and no man is the result of solely his own deeds or independent of other people. I am a tribalist, because I recognize the fundamentally tribal nature of our species.

>>55200792
Adhom. Try at least.

>>55200829
>I am a Finn.
Ah, a Commie rapebaby.
Now it all makes sense.

>>55200842
Wait wut
I thought they were supposed to be discount Mongolians?
Has Polandball lied to me?

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>55200829 (You)

Maybe in your frozen mongolshithole people are stuck several millennia back and are still in tribes but in the modern times we are more than than clans, Ghengiz.

The eternal krauts would have turned you into slaves, don't fool yourself.

>>55200768
How pathetic. You actually thinking being a facist is going to ensure the survival of "your" people is laughable, and most likely will only end if suffering and pain for you. You're like the disgusting commies that are running around, a dying breed that's going to die not in a bang, but in a whimper like a dying dog.

>>55188779
M8 don't be retarded
For one thing concrete overpasses in a city with lots of traffic and rain looks shit and the concrete ends up crumbling

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>>55200829
I truly hate that I can recognise you by your post style, you utterly worthless waste of a human being. Make like your hero Hitler and kill yourself.

>>55200860
It's okay, Mongolia got fucked by Russians too.

>>55200829
How is that an Ad Hominem? Read the full sticky at least and not just the titles.

>>55189873
Turtledove went all confederacy wankfest

>>55192586
Union with France
Fuck off wanker

>>55200817
That's fair, I suppose I'm thinking more about politics more than sci-fi (which don't get me wrong are cool as shit).
Still, I'm sure it'd be interesting to see a fucked up Europe after the collapse of the Reich.

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>>55200842
Nah. Commies never conquered us though they tried. Your historical insult doesn't work.

>>55200865
The fundamental social structure we evolved to exist in, and still largely exist in, is a community of extended families tgat are related and tied together by common blood, language, culture and territory, aka a tribe. The fact that we have smartphones and live in houses with air conditioning does not change our fundamental nature that evolved over hundreds of thousands of years.

>The eternal krauts would have turned you into slaves, don't fool yourself.
Nice allied propaganda you got there senpai. How come Hitler spoke so highly of us and allowed our people into SS forces then?

>>55200868
Given that the modern neoliberal, globalist world order is causing the slow demographic replacement of my people in our homeland, I don't see how fascism could possibly be worse for my people.

>>55200881
At least try arguing, you overemotional child.

I'm just reminded of Deathworld. Man, that was a clusterfuck.

>>55197166
That's because it's a mix of italian and german, I think author wanted to go for an expanded nazi-fascism feeling.
I am not sure it works.

>>55198336
>>55188079
The name of the comic it's "Heil!" by non-nobis-domine, Signore is just a character.

>>55196462
>meanwhile in Fallout Europe

>>55188876
Looks like it allows the engines closer together and some front-facing turrets.

>>55200615
>Oh, no, I'm no Nazi. I just prefer them over Communists.
Dumbest shit I've read this day.
They're YOUR team, so of course all those millions murdered in the name of blood and soil and politics (and revolutions) don't count, but oh, those millions murdered in the name of the revolutions (and blood and soil and politics) do, because they're not YOUR team.
Surely the nazis would have stopped at one point with murder and said "shit, this is horrible, let's stop", while the communists would have committed one exterminatus after the the next, something the nazis would have never done, proofing once and for all that communism is worse.
Because you're an asshole.

>>55202314
Commies would rob and murder me because I was born into wealthier than average family, as well as do their utmost to destroy my heritage and culture so that the party would become my sole focal point in society.

Whereas Nazis would kill commies, internationalists, bankers and other parasitic scum while doing their utmost to ensure the continued existence of my people. I sure as hell know where my allegiances lie in this fight.