Warhammer 40k /40kg/

Anyone playing NOVA?

>Star Wars Legion is actually cheaper than 40ks starter
Uhh 40k babs?

>>55181748
link?

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>>55181748
I cant wait for Xwing fags to buy into that game only to realize they have to assemble/paint the models

What are you working on today?

I'm going to paint up my Dark Lance Scourges and decide on a paint scheme for my Primaris.

>>55181760
>Anyone who likes things different than me is worse than me because I am threatened by competition

>>55181818
nice digits, I think I'll try my hand at painting today and maybe finally getting around to stripping those models that have been sitting in superclean for the last 6 months. What kind of scheme were you thinking about m8?

>>55181818
I posted my purchases in the last thread, i think I'mma start with the baneblade for konor, then work my way up to magnus.

>>55181818
Working on improving my recasting skills so I can finally finish my Harlequins and Dark Lance Scourges.

Just got done with the Dawn of War 3 campaign. Don't know why the game is getting so much hate; it was really enjoyable.

So what are the worst units so far in 8th? Not the mediocre units in your favourite armies, or the mediocre units in borderline OP armies. But straight up bad across the entire game.

I want to try running some wyches but I don't really care for their models, If I used Black Ark Corsairs instead and gave them other Dark Eldar bitz do you think anyone would really care?

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>>55181837
>What kind of scheme were you thinking about m8?

Destroyers, Revilers and OC snowflakes are the contenders

got 13 kasrkins for 30 bucks
i now own 100 assorted scions
feels good

>>55181865
Sniper Drones are up there. A sniper rifle that can't do mortal wounds and has a BS of 5+
For 18 ppm!

>>55181818
Building Stealth Suits.

>>55181896
I hope they get a buff.

>>55181883
if you're playing at a GW store, yes.

>>55181891
Go with OC snowflakes. Your Dudes > regurgitating canon armies.

>>55181852
There was a lot of belly aching about how it was too different from other installments. I swear 40k fans are a lot like Longbeards sometimes.

>>55181852
Terrible job at selling it, the MOBA stigma really hurt it.
That and 40k has too many factions of which many are popular. No Chaos at all.

>>55181903
Nah, I kind of avoid that place like the plague.

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I've made so much progress this month that I am actually in danger of running out of backlog to paint. That's never happened to me before.

>>55181967
Just buy more regular guardsmen, that'll keep you busy for a while. Also, are you the guy who regularly posts the all camo'd Knight and Steel Legion guard army?

>>55181909
>Your Dudes > regurgitating canon armies.

I dunno, I like using minor factions/Chapters, they're a fun balance between official mentions in the fluff and having a enough space to be creative with characters and stuff.

>>55181852

It's abandonware.

>>55181909
Hey now, sometimes a canon army has a nice color scheme and sometimes that's really all you need.

>>55181891
Destroyers look awesome but I kinda agree with the other guy, maybe go snowflake

>>55181892
sheeit, I love those models. I came back to the hobby hyping them only to find out they were OOP

>>55181902
You the anon going stacked stealthsuits? How are they coming along? Any tips/strats you find cool?

>>55181979

Yes, that's me. And I have already painted an additional 50 guardsmen this past month...I have 108 lasrifle guys, plus 40 some-odd heavy weapons teams and another 40 or so special weapons and sergeants. I can field 14 infantry squads right now and still have platforms leftover for heavy weapons teams.

>>55181994
Fair enough. I just get tired of seeing the same schemes over and over and over again, and something different, if done well, is a nice change of pace.

>>55181989
I mean there's probably going to be a Necron dlc at somepoint, and maybe they'll make them free to attract more players.

>>55181998
same feels
i hope they get nerfed a bit with the codex release
they are really strong

>>55181940
>No Chaos at all.
You say this like it's a bad thing anon.

>>55181998
Not the same guy, just starting. Love Stealth Suits.

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>>55181892

>tfw bought 4 boxes of kasrkin when they first came out, but left them in a closet until now
>repainted all of them, they are now some of my best models

I hope chapter approved has the rules for the other farsight units, I want a broadside HQ damn it

>>55182068
I'm not upset about it, just pointing out it is a big group of people lacking a faction.

>>55182039
>>55181989
Shame.
I wanted to see Tau and Necrons cause they weren't in DoW2

>>55182039

No, there won't.
The game's been out for a while and they haven't even announced plans for DLC.
They just handed out 50% off coupons to every person who owns a previous DOW game but not 3.
Its a cynical plot to squeeze the last bit of money they can from the game before moving on to their next project, which HAS been announced. (aoe4)

>>55182075
I now own 19 storm troopers, 21 kasirkins and like 60 tempestus scions out of the 3 i prefer the storm troopers of old though

>>55182145

I think I have almost 3 squads of them, too, and while the models are pretty good there just aren't enough poses for them imo. You are talking about the visored helmet guys, right?

>>55182084
Probably won't
Will need the codex. Huh, thinking about it, will the HQs just correspond to specific loadouts cause they don't have distinct models

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>>55182160
these guys

>>55182180
They did before so it would make sense

>>55182234
Any one of those could be the "visored helmet guys" he's talking about. In hindsight, that's not a good descriptor for stormtroopers.

>>55182269
lol ye

What is better for SM infantry buffing, a librarian or two lieutenants?

>>55182293
I suppose I should ask "what would be a better overall HQ unit?" I know the librarian also brings some chance to fight off smite spam.

>>55182293
It depends but 9/10 times a librarian will be more useful

>>55182293
Lieutenants, by far.

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>>55182145
okay but do you have any of the real stormtroopers?

>>55182308
I hate the berets so much Thats the only reason why i dont own them

>>55182299
>>55182302
Thank you for the replies.

Would you care to elaborate?

I plan to use a primaris librarian with pedro kantor, and probably slap the armor indomitus on him. Aside from pedro and a company ancient I have little to no CC units.

>>55182316
Lieutenants provide an aura. It will do more to buff you army. SM Librarian powers aren't the greatest. Null Zone is the strongest power, but it's tricky to use unless you give your Libby a bike or jump pack. In terms of buffing you're talking Veil of Time which, while it's hard to directly compare, I think is more limited than the wounds roll aura provided by Lieutenants.

There's reason to consider the Librarian when you consider everything he does, especially with mobility, but for pure buffing the Lieutenant will be stronger and more reliable.

>>55182352
Was told to use might of heros.

I have a tac squad, sniper scout squad, devcent squad LC/ML, and a sternguard squad for my gunline.

I want to maximize their effectiveness while giving enemies something to fear charging against.

>>55182084
>"Send forth your commander! I challenge him to honorable combat! Do none of you cowardly xenos know true honor?!"
>marine explodes
>camera zooms over a mountain range 2 miles into the distance
>Giant XV88 gives a thumbs up

>>55181852
I honestly didn't even know Dawn of War 3 was out.

I saw people shitting on it in these threads for weeks, and then, people got caught up in 8th frenzy and nothing.

>>55182137
Sounds like ME:A

>>55182416
>t. hipster

>>55182378
I don't think Might of Heroes is all that good. YMMV.

>>55182416
>I hate the only three franchises keeping the stores that support my hobby afloat

>>55182428
Yeah, but the difference here is that DoW tried to do something different in the series. ME:A plays like a "best of" clip of ME in general with half the character and even less originality.

>>55182431
I haven't been able to play 8th yet, so I am trying to gather info on what to do.

If I take the two prim lieutennants, I can give on e a power sword and armor indomitus, and the other the long range bolt rifle and stick him with my vets.

>>55182468
If you're planning to give them your Relic I'd just take the Librarian.

>>55182412

Enclaves would be the group to engage in a close range slap fight

>>55181891
Like you I tend to prefer Obscure canon chapters. That said I think there's something to be said for choosing an OC chapter so you can freely swap CTs.

>>55182506
What else could I put it on? The apothecary seems a waste, and the ancient doesn't seem as strong as the other choices.

Can someone give me a brief version of what the red scorpions are good at army wise?

I have a hard on (hah) for EC and am not a filthy traitor, trying to pick a legion to play in 40k

How viable would a genestealer cult made up of baneblades be?

And whats the going rate on recast baneblades?

I really like the idea of genestealer cult but want to run as few models as possible so I could transport it easily around the country for tournament play

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>>55182674
wut?

>>55182674
>how can I be a bigger faggot than I already am?

Congratulations. You may just be the biggest faggot to ever visit this Mongolian ferret breeding forum....

>>55182731
Thanks for the (you)

>>55182731
>Mongolian ferret

THEY'RE CALLED ASIAN STEPPE POLECATS YOU FUCKING PLEB

>>55182731
>projecting this hard on an Australian throat singing board

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>>55182731
Ferrets can't breed dummy

I've had mine for five months and they do nothing

>>55182564
The banner relic for the ancient is quite strong. Absolutely better than a tougher lieutenant.

>>55182824
I'd never considered that one.

Think I should still stick with two lieutenants then?

>>55182674
So you're planning to take three superheavies with the LoW Detachement alongside a couple hundred points of GSC? Seems pretty garbage to be honest.

>>55182838
That's what I'd do. It will help you punch back a bit more when charged too.

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This is gonna be a long shot, but could the graphic design anon who cleaned up my <MY DUDES> Kabal logo from the last thread please respond. I'd like to see if we could work something out to create a symbol for my buds <HIS DUDES> chapter. We could communicate through throwaway gmail accts or something.

>>55182822
Did you put on some Barry White?

>>55182840
It's b8 m8.

>LoC/Kairos are not Lords of War

Fucking bullshit.

I'm not into Warhammer, but I fucking love painting the minis. I'm pretty good at this point. The youngbloods at the card shop are enthusiastic about my work, and others want to buy my models or commission me. It's hella not good money, but painting models without paying for them is nice.

Some of the lore kind of blows my mind when I hear about it, but I'm not into reading fiction. I feel like a fraud at the card/hobby shop. Is there a term for people like me? Am I frowned on or considered a casual ant am too dense to realize it? Should I just STFU and learn how to play? What drove you to start playing in the first place?

>>55182898
>Is there a term for people like me?

Professionals.

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Flyrant or ground turant, which is better?

And what is the best overall HQ choice for tyranids?

>>55182852
This is what I am looking at currently
+++ pedro vanguard (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [84 PL, 1499pts] +++

++ Vanguard Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Space Marines) [84 PL, 1499pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

**Chapter Selection**: Crimson Fists

+ HQ +

Pedro Kantor [9 PL, 170pts]

Primaris Lieutenants [10 PL, 149pts]
. Primaris Lieutenant: Master-crafted stalker bolt rifle
. Primaris Lieutenant: Power sword

+ Troops +

Scout Squad [6 PL, 90pts]: 5x Camo cloak
. Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle
. 4x Scout w/Sniper Rifle: 4x Sniper rifle

Tactical Squad [9 PL, 127pts]
. 5x Space Marine
. Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Combi-melta
. Space Marine w/Special Weapon: Meltagun

+ Elites +

Apothecary [3 PL, 55pts]

Primaris Ancient [4 PL, 69pts]: Standard of the Emperor Ascendant

Sternguard Veteran Squad [14 PL, 180pts]
. Space Marine Veteran: Special issue boltgunx9
. Veteran Sergeant: Special issue boltgun

+ Heavy Support +

Centurion Devastator Squad [19 PL, 465pts]
. Centurion: Centurion missile launcher, Two Lascannons x 2
. Centurion Sergeant: Centurion missile launcher, Two Lascannons

+ Dedicated Transport +

Land Speeder Storm [5 PL, 92pts]: Cerberus launcher, Heavy flamer

Razorback [5 PL, 102pts]: Storm bolter, Twin assault cannon

>>55182898
You're just a painter. They exist. Nothing wrong with it.

>>55182840
I really like the idea of a genestealer cult taking over an entire IG regiment. They infiltrated it, took all the hardware and now they're running it.

I really like the old guard camo scheme of red and green with white edging. It would look great done purple and that's genestealer cult colours.

>>55182869
>Everything I don't like it bait

>>55182898
Not a fraud unless you try to run your mouth about lore without knowing it. You're just a dude who likes to paint but maybe play a demo or two with the local kids and see if it clicks, and if you want to give the lore a shot maybe some of the other guys here can recommend some of the more down to earth books for ya. either way, you do you

>>55182918
>best overall hq
Tervigon is always the best hq

>>55182885
Are bloodthirsters/that named 'thirster?

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>>55181818
Applying paint to craftworlds/corsairs. Overall happy with the results so far, but more touch-ups required on some parts (non-seer bikes just have the white trim done, scorpion needs crew paint)

>>55181760
Holy fuck! That ignorance is painful.
for one an experienced painter spends a couple hours on a single infantry model if you don't want it to look like shit.
plus that's not a bad thing. There's two sides to this hobby and they are both enjoyable.
secondly, no way xwing is a bigger game? I have no numbers to back that up, but I just don't see it having the same footprint as 40k.
He talks about a 50 tournament like it's massive, yeah its big but there's frequent 40 tourneys that are bigger.
at the end of the day it doesn't matter. Someone playing another tt wargame doesn't affect me or anyone else playing 40k.
I just don't get these doomsayers, what are they trying to achieve? I have no problem with people driving other cars when I drive a Honda. I don't get upset that my wife plays Xbox when I prefer the PC. Fucking hell.

>>55182918
Malanthrope is best HQ, Flyrant is better than Tyrants, Swarmlord is better than either but costs much more and is almost required to have Tyrant Guard with it.

>>55182962

But it looks like shit

>>55182940
No problem with that. Just don't burn your AM detachment on Lords or War or that's the only AM stuff you can take. Just take a battalion or whatever.

>>55183008

I have Tyrant guard I've been wanting to put together and paint. I own several Hive Tyrant kits the so it's not a big deal.

I will add the Malanthrope 2 list of things to buy next.

>>55182997
>secondly, no way xwing is a bigger game?
It unfortunately is, or was. Between 8e and how terrible X-wing has become though I imagine 40k will regain its post.

>>55183029

Warmachine committing hara-kiri on its own also helps.

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>>55182988
Also as always C&C welcome even if tablet camera quick snap is shit

>>55183029
Bigger in the US at independent retailers at least.

>>55182997
X wing is Star wars, the most commercial and normie friendly thing on the planet. It's bigger than 40k because Star wars is the biggest sell out franchise ever. It's so bad that even the Jewyest of the Jews made a parody film about how much of a sell out it was.

Seriously, go watch Star balls and you will understand.

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R8 my Renegades, sissies

Battalion Detachment

HQ: Daemon Prince of Khorne w/ Daemonic Axe = 170
HQ: Chaos Lord on Bike w/ Murder Sword (paid for power sword, replaces pistol) = 117

Troops: 20x Cultists w/ Autopistol/Brutal assault weapon = 80
2x Troops: 5x Chaos Marines w/ flamer = 74 each, 148

Elites: 10x Berzerkers (Khorne) w/ 9 Chainaxes (replaces pistols), 2x LCs (Champion) and Icon of Wrath = 191
Elites: 5x Chaos Terminators (Slaanesh) w/ combi-flamers/lightning claws and Icon of Excess = 260

Heavy Support: 3x Obliterators (Slaanesh) = 195
Heavy Support: Land Raider w/ Havoc Launcher = 367

Dedicated Transport: Rhino w/ Combi-Flamer = 83

Supreme Command Detachment

HQ: Exalted Champion w/ Powerfist (replaces chainsword) = 82
HQ: Terminator Sorcerer = 156
HQ: Chaos Lord Terminator (Slaanesh) w/ Intoxicating Elixir, Combi-melta and Chainfist = 146

1995, 6 CP

>>55183033
>frosted blue

Patrician

NOVA
No Necrons or Tau at all, DE only as an occasional side group for CWE/Ynarri

>>55183053
>the Jewyest of the Jews made a parody film about how much of a sell out it was.
>Seriously, go watch Star balls and you will understand.
Space Balls.

And Mel is stereotypical in his accent, looks, career, ect. but he is hardly the prime example of manipulation and money grubbing.

>>55183029
X-Wing is only the best selling game for third party retailers, some of which don't even sell GW shit.

GW makes more sales and probably has more players world wide.

What X-Wing did do is beat the absolute shit out of Warmahordes, which used to be the old #2 slot by a solid margin.

>>55183059
I fail to see the Renegade part of it, but looks okay to me.

>>55183063

Now they just need to finish killing off Eldar and all will be right with the world!

>>55183053
>star balls

>>55181818
Gotta glue the thrusters on the ghostkeel and come up with a base for my Exalted Champion. Then It's time to prime!

>>55183071

To be fair, Warmachine deserved it. Privateer Press have been and continue to make some very boneheaded decisions.

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>>55183075
They're basically Red Corsairs game-wise but they're more like a splinter that Huron thinks are too much of a loose cannon to roll with his main fleet. They don't use the livery (they're all different colours with a unifying shoulderpad).

I'm also not taking a single one of them seriously from a fluff standpoint. They're called The Brazen Bullybeefs and this is their chapter symbol cause it opens the can of whoop-ass

>>55183071
>X-Wing is only the best selling game for third party retailers, some of which don't even sell GW shit.
And some of those 'third party retailers' are things like Target and Barnes and Nobles, which gets way more traffic than any LGS or GW. It also includes any online retailer.

>GW makes more sales and probably has more players world wide.
The numbers say otherwise for the first. The second might be true given the number of people who probably grab X-wing, zoom it a round one or twice, and then never touch it again.

Seriously though, I'm not happy about it. But this is the reality. X-wing, at last check, was selling better and making more money than 40K.

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R8H8 FLUFFY SHARKS
I have 28 points to burn. Maybe upgrade 2 storms to have asscannons or something.

Carcharodons 2000pts CP 7
Ravenguard Tactics

Battalion +3CP
>HQ
Librarian w/Sword and PP
Captain w/Chainsword and Combi-Melta + Teeth of Terra

>Troops
Scouts with Shotguns x5
Scouts with Shotguns x5
Scouts with Shotguns x5

>Dedicated Transport
Landspeeder Storm w/Heavy Bolter
Landspeeder Storm w/Heavy Bolter
Landspeeder Storm w/Heavy Bolter

Vanguard Detachment +1CP
>HQ
Tyberos

>Elite
Tartaros x10 with Lightning Claws
Contemptor Dread w/Asscannon
Company vets x5 w/Meltas and Chainswords
Company vets x5 w/Meltas and Chainswords

>Dedicated
Drop Pod w/Stormbolter
Drop Pod w/Stormbolter

>>55183118

>The numbers say otherwise for the first.

Then post numbers

>>55183149
>Tartaros x10 with Lightning Claws
niiice mr mako

>>55183150
https://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/38061/top-5-non-collectible-miniature-games-spring-2017

If I am trying to make a red scorpion army with UM tactics, should I go outrider detachment with heavy usage of bikes?

Or battalion for the tacticals?

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>>55183103

>>55183167

I asked for numbers.

>>55183159
Mama ain't raise a bitch. My Sharks get claws not bitch boards.

>>55183180
Well, do you have anything, anything at ALL that says otherwise?

>>55183192

Do I need evidence in order to dismiss a claim without evidence?
nope

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>>55183177

How good are 8th ed starter sets?
What should I add right away to both?

>>55183204
start collecting tempestus scions

>>55183202
>without evidence?
>what is an industry trade magazine

>>55183204
You mean the primaris vs deathguard thing?

>>55183118
>The numbers say otherwise for the first.
>GW makes more in one year than FFG's entire net worth
>"FFG sells more, guys!"

>>55183204
They re pretty good.

Redemptor for the space marines.

None of the new stuff is out for death guard yet.

>>55183203
>>55183177
Thanks lads. I have serious armies but I wanted to not give a shit about this one and just mix whatever. Some of the greatest fun I've had, in truth.

>>55183211
>implying ICv2 shows all GW sales

All that proves is that X-Wing outsells GW when you remove a shit ton of GW sales from the comparison.

>>55183211

I've never heard of them before.
For all I know, that list is literally paid shilling.
It's not evidence whatsoever.

Are we getting the death guard pre order stuff today or next Saturday?

>>55183224
>never heard of ICv2

ICv2 is legitimate, but it doesn't show all GW sales which is the problem. It literally doesn't count a single sale GW makes directly, online, or from FW.

>>55183204
You want to collect/play both factions from the starter set?

>>55183229
Next Saturday.

>>55183224
>For all I know, that list is literally paid shilling.
>Whatever I don't like is shilling

ICv2 has zero verifiable data or sources for how they get their sales figures. It could literally be made up but it's most likely just fragmentary survey completion and speculation.

>>55183230

Without data, it's not legitimate as a source.

>>55183230
>It literally doesn't count a single sale GW makes directly, online, or from FW.
That is a pretty big chunk missing.

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>powerfists drop to 12pts
>chainfists stay 22pts

Anyone know where the NOVA GT results can be found?

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>>55183275

If i want an elite chopy unit for my chaos marines am I better off using possessed or chosen maxed out on power weapons.

>>55183308
Possessed
Better at dealing damage, and way more survivable, for only a slight points increase

>>55183308
Chosen are inefficent as pure melee units, the point of them is to have a mixture of melee weapons and ranged weapons.

Possessed are better melee troops but have no ranged option.

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>>55183308
Berserkers really.

But if not them, Possessed are better if you're going to run a Herald with them, especially of the Slaanesh or Tzeentch variety, so they can benefit from their buffs and powers. Even aside from that, for a few points more than Chosen with Power Axes you get a roughly comparable unit damagewise that also has two wounds a head and a ++5 save. Chosen are better at gunlines.

>>55183334
Chosen are honestly good at shooting more.

>>55183272
Was kindof a bummer yeah but you get 1 more AP and the stable 2 damage is great.

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Lieutenant Two Helms is just a practice without any details done, but I'm liking the colour scheme in person a lot.

>>55183362
the Astartes that fails the most in his squad gets hailed the group retard and must dawn the dunce helmet

>>55182075
what's that model with the axe in the front?

>>55183387
tech priest

Has anyone never used Shapeways? They're some sort of 3d print company and they have a bunch of cool accessories like shoulder pads and shit for various armies.

so uh, how about those night lords icon of despair raptors?

Idea for Guard stratagem: before the first turn, you can merge 2/3 infantry squads into a platoon for a command point.

>>55183391
thanks

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>>55183403
Someone posted a pic in the /wip/ thread recently. Saved it so I remembered to go look it up later.

>>55183432
Oh neat. I'm leery on 3d printing, but that looks good.

>>55183204

If you add the First Strike starter set's Easy to Build minis to Dark Imperium:
DG, you're looking at a 1000pt Battalion right there with 2hq (Lord, Sorc), 4 troop (2x 13 Pox, 2x 5 Marine), 1 elite (Bellmarine), 1 fast attack (Drone).

Primaris, not as easy. You CAN get a battalion with the first strike box: 2 HQ (captain, 2lieutnants), 3 troop with two 5-man Intercessors, one 3-man intercessor squad, 2 elite (Ancient, 3x Reiver Squad), 1 Fast attack (Inceptors), 1 Heavy Support (Helblasters)
But it goes to 1013 points, so I'd say Reivers out and fill in the missing Troops.

>>55183408
They're the staple of the LD bomb.

>>55183368
Using it

>>55183362
.. I need to go pawn some Primaris helmets off someone, I just remembered how much I hate bare heads.

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>>55183462
hmm

I feel like I have army ADD, which is shitty. I can't fucking decide what to do here, and even if I do, I'm probably not going to last long on that army anyway.

Please send help. A gun might be best.

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>>55183210
I have ig already
>>55183212
Yes
>>55183217
Great suggestion thanks
>>55183231
Mebbe, that or converting spess muhreen to slaanesh muhreens or more gifts from grandfather nurgle

>>55183452
Laughing conscripts/orks/nids

>>55182972
All big-ass Daemons are HQs despite costing 300+pts because fuck you, that's why.

>>55183539
How good are they tho?

Looking for good Guard books to read. Any recommendations?

>>55183581
inb4 Gaunt's Ghosts

>tfw still no TS release in sight.
Maybe it's a Christmas gift..

Would Magnus be too ridiculous to includeat 2k points? I'd give fair warning and most likely won't use him often, I think he's too strong and might be more of a crutch where he does most of the work. Still buying him though, can't be a TS fan without a glorious painted Magnus.

>>55183661
Wait your turn thousand dweebs

>>55183661
Magnus should be the first model you include at any points cost.

>>55183159
Claw and bolter tartaros with HF and plasma blaster has so far proven in my experiments to be the best of all worlds when running terminators. Just need to make sure you have a delivery method that works

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Still another 2 weeks for Death Guard to come out.

gW have fucked this release up by releasing them so late. I might just buy some Chinacast FW stuff. it could get lost 2 times on its way here and still alive before Death Guard.

>>55183062
There is something pleasing about having dice + command point tokens all matching the army color scheme

>>55183652
The 2 tank books ( and 1 short story) are really good. baneblade, shadowsword etc. they're in the mega I think.

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>>55183675
no

>>55183685
Really? I don't play WAAC and I can include a lot more fun shit with his huge chunk of points.

>>55183699
Magnus is really good but there's some people that claim T'Sons are terrible without him. "First model you include at any points cost" is a shitpost though, bringing Magnus at, say, 1k points would be a cock move.

>>55183699
Fuck the haters, run Ahriman for old times sake

>>55183699
Ignore the other guy. Magnus is nono for small scale, and okay if you give the LoW heads up in bigger games
Drop him if things get onesided

>>55183708
>tfw if I played 1ks they'd be remnants of Amon's boys sporting classic colors
>would never get to use Ahriman even though he's a bro

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>STILL no Death Guard pre-orders

>>55183737
Next Saturday.

>>55183708
I intend to. I bought the 30k version I will convert a bit. Gonna give him the oak leaf badge of his brother from the HH books. He will be my general warlord.

>>55183707
Are they? I mean they're pretty fucking tough. Even with the psychic phase neutered before the CSM codex, I still held my own.

>>55183720
Yeah that's precisely what I was going to do.

>>55183739
>pre-orders won't go up on the 7th
>releases won't be out on the 14th
Fucking gay

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>>55183661
Have patience, anon. We'll get our fun spells and stuff soon enough.
Also, get the Exalted Sorcerer kit to have fun making a cool HQ as "Your Dude" unless you want something like Ahriman. Pick up Magnus later on when you start doing large matches and such..

>>55183403
I have. Nothing but good results on my end.

>>55183751
You might want to check your dates Anon. Next Saturday is the 9th.

>>55183762
And you might want to check your reading comprehension

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>>55183739
WE'VE FUCKING WAITED LONG ENOUGH WHAT ARE THEY PLAYING AT WITH THIS RELEASE REEEEEEEEEEE

>>55183764
I should probably go to bed.

>>55183696
Just finished Baneblade, will give Shadowsword a go. Thanks man!

Thousand My Wife's Sons
Cuck Guard
Cum Eaters
My Wife's Children

How can chaoscucks even compete?

>>55183749
>Are they?

It's mostly just faggots who claim anything that isn't hyper point efficient bad.

>>55183788
>Still thinks cuck is funny

No need
You already played yourself

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https://web.archive.org/web/20170831222047/https://geekdad.com/2017/08/games-workshop-representation/

APOLOGIZE

>>55183788
Epic win, anon! Upvoted! Lulz haha xD

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So does anyone on here -actually- play Primaris? I'm keen to find out how good Reivers are

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Anyone know what this is?

>>55183720
>>55183708
>>55183707
>running named characters

>>55183447
You rock. Thanks

>>55183756
I was planning to, but I'll have to see. I might not have the points for more than one and a good buddy told me he'll make me one flater this year. Gotta see the points and such. I know for sure I'll be buying Magnus for painting and occasional fielding and a Scarab Occult squad. Already got 2 squads of ye olde Rubrics, 2 Sphinx maulerfiends and 30k Ahriman to convert.

I'm actually really curious to see if I can field 2 SO squads. Some of the sexiest shit I've ever seen.

>>55183447
I'd rather eave out the Inceptors, they don't bring all that much firepower and blocking overwatch is brutal.

>>55183813
Now that the new smell is starting to wear off, I think most people are realising that primaris stuff is a waste of time, outside of lieutenants, but that's only cus they have a model and the manlet one doesn't

How much longer till we can declare the primaris line a failure?

>>55183826
>Not running characters with way better stats than their unnamed counterparts for minimal cost increase
They screwed the pooch on this one and there is really no reason not to take named characters most of the time

>>55183822
One of them old Bloodcrushers. Think it's a fantasy chaos warrior version.

>>55183843
Legend. Cheers.

>>55183822

a blood letters bitch

>>55183842
>They screwed the pooch on this one and there is really no reason not to take named characters most of the time
>Being WAAC
Nigga it's a game

>>55183848
>Taking anything good is WAAC

Good one

>>55183848
>Nigga it's a game
Exactly, so why reee when people take characters they like?

>>55183854
>>55183861
>taking named characters because they're sightly better
>thinks he is not WAAC
you're more delusional than Magnus

>>55183842
The real question is when is Chaos getting Fabius-approved Primaris? and when are he and Cawl gonna team up to skullfuck everyone who doesn't have a boner for SCIENCE?

And about the named characters.. eh. Taking them without thinking, fair enough. Taking them for fluff is awesome. Taking them for cost efficiency, going a bit WAAC-y but ok.

Are chaos bikers good enough to be included in a World Eaters army? Or would they fit better in a shooty list?

>>55183861
Retards lack the brain cells to realise most arguments made work both ways

>>55183845
Np. Specifically it's the Juggernaut mount for a Lord I think.

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>>55183871

>>55183864
yeah man
I take armies of nothing but stock marines
What, you give them upgrades?
Fucking WAAC faggots at it again

>>55183839
Fair enough, though you still lack a troop for a battalion. Drop Lieutenant gear and third Intercessor Squad, add 3x Reivers and 5xScouts and you have a 1000 pt Battalion.

>>55183864
Or maybe some people take the characters because they like them?

>>55183804
because we definitely want the marvel and star wars crowd

>>55183870
Bikers are good enough to be included anywhere desu. 2 flamers and the champ with a power weapon = wew lad.

>>55183891
you mean 2 flamers+champ with combi-flamer and power weapon = WeW lad

>>55183865
Hopefully never
Primaris and Cawl stuff is the worst written crap they have ever put out
Giving them to chaos too would just be lazy

>>55183804
This is why I hate it when shit gets popular

>>55183902
Or even bikers replace pistol with chainsword as well for maximum overwew.

Unfortunately the champion can only take either power weapon or cimbi-flamer. He can only replace the pistol with 1 item.

Looking at the new Plague Marine entry in the CSM codex, what looks to be a good loadout for them?

Bolters are a little unappealing, but the CC options remove their shooting except for pistols

did my part for konor tonight... my 1000 points of IG/Inquisition with an eversor assassin teamed up with 1000 points of primaris marines to table a 2000 point khorne army for a major victory in that forest-thing that eats people.

>>55183075
I guess that one lonely bike lord?

>>55183947
if you put them in cover they live forever, triple plasma has put in some work for me

>>55183842
>and there is really no reason not to take named characters most of the time
Just refuse games with named characters, instantly fix a bunch of the cancer of 8th edition.

No Magnus, no Guilliman, no Celestine, game becomes much more balanced and fun and actually about Your Dudes and not some boring ass nu-lore shitters.

>>55183994

>no Celestine

At which point SOB armies have basically nothing to take. Cannonesses are kinda junk and they never got back the ability to get a leader with a jump pack.

>>55184003
Cry more or play a real supported army.

>>55184017

Or just not play with people who decide to go 'No, you must play with my houserules'

>>55184017
>game becomes more about your dudes, is more fun and balanced
>lol play a real army faggot
The fucking irony

>>55184017
So either CSM or SM?

>>55184029

Yep, if you are not playing marines you are clearly not playing the game for Your Dudes and fun.

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>>55181818
70 termagants ready and taped to sticks to be primed and assembly line painted like the test mini (finally)
>glaze, ink, glaze, ink

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>>55183804
>one skin tone
>Tallarans
Kek

>>55183963
Ranged weapons seem to be fairly good all around. Blightlauncher has reasonable strength and nice AP and can move and shoot, their flamer has a better range, and plasma is plasma. Do we even care about Melta in this meta anymore?

Their CC options have me confused in general though. They look good on paper I think (though I can't really remember), but I find it difficult to commit permanently to a weapon choice

>>55183822
Thoses two are morons, its a juggernaut

>>55183994
>MUH DEWDS autist wants to police what people can and can't field
Christ

>>55184003
>SoB armies basically have nothing
You mean besides a ton of cheap special weapons on 3+/6++ bodies with access to great vehicles? A canoness isn't actually that bad, either, and she's cheap at only 60pts for a BS2+ rerolling 1s combi-plasma HQ.

>>55184066

The Celestine one is funny, I don't know a single SOB player that doesn't have their old Witch Hunters cannoness (With the Jump Pack/Blessed Weapon that made them fun then) for Counts-As Celestine.

>>55184003
You can scout as many meltas and storm bolters as you want for almost free, that's gotta be worth nothing.

>>55184029
>CSM
>supported

Laughing14yearoldsculpts.png

>>55184052
It's as if people paint their minis like they want. Why don't these folks paint their dudes like they are their dudes?

>>55184087
They at least have their codex.

>>55184082
I don't. I keep mine as-is with her inferno pistol and Evicerator for the glorious day that the patron saint of my dudes roars back to life. I'm not even going to repaint her because that would be disrespectful of the past.

>>55184093
They sort of mention that but then hand wave it since apparently it's not good enough. They need a Chinese marine chapter that drives around with oriental dragons and shit on everything.

>>55183960
What makes renegade "Renegade" then?

>>55184087
>14
Abaddon is 20 years old at this point

>>55184106
>article says white people shouldn't try to create shit based on other races, since they don't "get" the other races and would thus be condescending
>bitch when white people make shit about white people
o i am laffin

>>55184106
>>55184093

>you can paint them however you want!
>ITS NOT ENOUGH!

>>55184110
no affiliation with warp fuckery i guess

>>55184116
Maybe he'll grow out of his screaming manbaby phase.

>>55184120
Red Corsairs are regularly called renegades in the lore, but they use warp fuckery all the time.
>>55184124
Not with ADaddyissuesB writing his shit

Why didn't Abbadon get a new model with CSM?

Everyone was expecting a Triumvirate box for Chaos but it seems to have just slipped by

>>55184133
red corsairs are an exception i guess
to me renegade means : against IoM but not affiliated with Chaos

>>55184148
Because Matt Ward is back writing the lore, and he can't help but constantly guzzle down ultrasmurf cum

Hopefully soon though
but I would guess mid next year at the earliest at this point

>>55184117
>Chinese
>Dragons
>HARMFUL STEREOTYPES
>C-C-CULTURALLY APPROP..
it'sneverenough

>>55184133
Christ, I was looking at the excerpts they were posting in the Black Legion thread just yesterday. Such overrought nonsense. And to think, back when he wrote Helsreach he was so promising. If only we'd known then.

>>55183444
shapeways works because they use the kinda of high end industrial laser sintering machine you need for acceptable quality minis.

discussions of 3d printing minis are usually about home printers that are the much cheaper but lower quilty plastic filament printers.

>>55184166
>chinese characters come on tv
>claiban and bamboo flutes start playing
>hispanic characters come on tv
>vihuela starts playing with clapping and maracas as backups
>English people come on the TV
>God save the Queen starts playing
It's fucking laughable what Americans think is "inclusionist". They genuinely think when Mexicans go home they put on a sombrero and pull out a vihuela and start playing mariachi music until their burritos are finished cooking.

>>55184151
thats what its meant for most of 40k. renegade were distinct from traitors.

revently things aren't as clear with GW sometimes using renegade for chaos marines not from the 9 traitor legions.

>>55184216

Burritos ARE pretty awesome.

>>55184151
To me Renegade is mostly "Not of the legions and doesn't outright venerate a single god for the purpose of rewards, just in it for the glory and bitches"

You can still be marked and be a renegade. Best example I can think of is the difference between a edgy "hail satan my lord and master" kinda satanist and the LaVeyan type who sees satan as an extention (or excuse) to venerate himself.

One worships Slaanesh because they wish for rewards and to praise She Who Thirsts. Another sides with Slaanesh cause you get access to all them sweet cocktails.

>>55184237
>>55184237
>To me Renegade is mostly "Not of the legions and doesn't outright venerate a single god for the purpose of rewards, just in it for the glory and bitches"
So basically they're Chaos Space Marines. Wow.

To me a renegade is someone who ditches their monastic ways, renounces the Emperor and the Imperium or its way of life, and goes to do his own shit. A mercenary Space Marine chapter would be fucking great, but whenever GW talk of renegades they're basically exactly as you put it, which is limited in scope and basically dull as fuck.

>>55184216
You're right, they should just not include foreigners at all.

>>55184256
>Goes do his own shit
>Ditches monastic life and pretenses of doing it For the Emperor
>In it for the glory and bitches
To me this is pretty much identical.

>>55184106
He wanted a "people's liberation army" inspired guard line, which isn't really a terrible idea, like Valhallans but taking the valuing the lives of their soldiers even less and committing massed human wave attacks all day every day (yes, I know in reality the human wave refered to continued attempts at the 'short attack'), although they'd probably end up just being Valhallans with a head-swap like praetorians were to mordians. Everything else he said was terrible and if he was left in charge we'd probably end up with the PLA-guard being well equipped and competant, like super Cadians, rather than like the rest of the guard regiments that took some stereotypical tactic of some historical force (prussian or victorian line infantry, WW1 trench warfare, WW2 red army in winter 1941/2, laurence of arabia, muscle bound American muhreens from vietnam war films, Vosotryans are the odd one out here stretsly maybe?) and ramped it up to 11.

>>55184093
>>55184106
>>55184119
I think the idea is that white skin is the default in GW painting, beyond the Age of Sigmar guy I can't really think of black dudes straight away that GW have designed and painted to be that way, same with other human races.

Sure, you can paint them however you want, but there's always the baseline idea that GW didn't sculp them or design them to be done that way.

>>55184283
>>Goes do his own shit
>>Ditches monastic life and pretenses of doing it For the Emperor
>>In it for the glory and bitches
>To me this is pretty much identical.
I mean, Space Wolves are in it for the glory and bitches. They're not renegade and do give a shit about the Imperium.

Renegade could mean anything at all that makes a chapter not want to fight for the Imperium any longer. You're just limited in imagination so you are happy with the way GW has chosen to define it.

>>55184291
>GW makes figures with non-western features, exaggerated so as to be visible at scale
>Racist caricatures reeeeeeee

>>55184260
I prefer "do it right or not at all"

Most white liberals want to be inclusive but are lazy and retarded so instead of asking a chink they'll google "Chinese culture" and draw from the most obvious examples and then base a character on those traits. This is a shitty way to write a character.

>>55184283
Folk Hero Noblebright Space Marines who have had it with the oppressive regime?

>>55184291
>GW listens and tries sculpting black people
>End up with minstrel-inspired IG regiment in blackface

But jokes aside, how can you sculpt black feature and not have big noses, lips and a more elongated cranium? Pointing out the fucking obvious is going to get someone in shit, guaranteed. the wisest move in this game is to not play at all.

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I've just realised as much as I like this colour scheme there is no way I can do the shoulder insignia freehand.

>>55184300
Well they did ogres fairly well
Pretty convenient that the article completely ignored them

>>55184050
>That fingerprint on the upper arm
The colour scheme is pretty nice, if not a little simplistic.

>>55184315
Make your own transfers then, scrub.

>>55184324
> if not a little simplistic
Do you expect something more than simplistic on a hoard army?

It's bad enough just painting 100 guys to tt standard.

>>55184300
I honestly don't see a problem with comparing exaggerating the features of non-white people to stereotyping.

I don't think GW do that, and I have never argued they did, but If I saw a model with big red lips and super dark skin, I wouldn't be upset if someone thought it wasn't the best path to tread..

>>55184313
They can just do what they did with the Bloodreavers, paint some of them asian and black and don't try to accommodate race. Black guys with big styled beards are badass and GW handled them fine, same with the Warrior Priest from Silver Tower. They should do that more.

>>55184315
More concerned he has 2 helmets.

>>55184315
Why does he have two helmets?

>>55184338
In case he loses one durr.

>>55184342
But 40k characters become more powerful once they lose their helmet. It's like he never wants to become a special character or something.

>>55184338
>>55184338
Don't question Lieutentant "Two Helms" Anderson

It's actually because its a test/practice piece and I tried two different ways of painting the helm on the same guy

>>55184336
>They can just do what they did with the Bloodreavers, paint some of them asian and black and don't try to accommodate race
The faggot in the article is bitching that GW simply painted black/asian skin on models that could just as easily look white with different paint. He wants more overt differences.

Like everyone else has been saying through their greentext and jokes, is that GW should not fucking play this game at all. There is no winner, since the people you gave an inch to eventually want a mile, and then ten.

>>55184336
I was predicting the response if they tried to meet these ridiculous demands by making figures visibly ethnic. Like you, I think that the Bloodreaver option is the best one.

>>55184349
Fair enough. I'm planning on cutting it off of mine and using some pouches to cover it up.

>>55184338
In case he finds a dunce who hasn't got one on.

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>>55184052
>One skin tone
Once again, Genestealer cults reign supreme. 100% plastic models and representations of humans with both light, dark and purple complexion.

>DG/TS Legion Traits
>Gift of Nurgle: Whenever a unit with this rule takes a wound, roll a D6. )n a 5+, it doesn't take a wound
>Sorcerers Wards: Add a +1 to units invulnerable save. If unit doesn't have an invulnerable save, it gains 5++ invulnerable save.

Y/N?

>>55184360
>purple
WOT ABOUT GREEN

UZ GREENSKINZ AVNT BEEN GETTIN ENUF INCLUSHUN. DAS ZOGGIN RAYCISS.

>>55184361
N

>>55184361
>tanks and dreads get DR
nice

>>55184372
>Tanks are infantry, biker or hellbrutes

>>55184306
That could work. Yeah power corrupts but there's nothing more frustrating than having a government tell you they're the best and then you look out the window and see people beating the shit out of kids in broad daylight. Vigilante SM basically.

>>55184295
It's not people's imagination that's at fault if GW has decided to make Renegade be such a broad term. They locked the Chaos Gods into a 1 dimension caricature but I stillbelieve the old "Khorne is honourable but strict, tzeentch gives hope not just fleshchange" etc.

My Renegades are wacked out space pirates who just want to indulge in their own shit. They don't care about the greater picture, they'll raid anyone, for themselves.

>>55184360
But thats racist

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>>55184366

what is the faction with the less possibility of conversion and why is it Tau and Necron ?

>>55184389
Ironic that the liberal's faction of choice has the least diversity

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>>55184291
Look at these proud Marines of color! The one on the left us a black man from.. No.. Wait. Was it the right one? I... Maybe the left one was the Asian dude... Um..

>>55184360
GSC seem so damn fun to play, shame I already collect Admech and Harlequins

>>55184395
>liberals faction
do you even know what words you're using ?
the tau aren't liberals in the slightest
they're like an oligarchic government with caste system and eugenism
it's really far from liberal

>>55184396
It wasn't until Primaris came out that I noticed how fucking ridiculous standard Marine models are

Even the the Mk IV and III from the HH boxes look really dumb now

>>55184395
Tau are anything but liberal, they're a strict caste system "everyone does a job and dissenters get gassed" society. They're liberal in that they will accept anyone provided they conform. That's not very liberal.

Imagine if a real world country sterilized/chemically castrated any and all citizens/refugees not of their blood and that was the number 1 requirement for citizenship.

>>55184424
I dunno, seems pretty close to me.

>>55184396
I don't see what your point is, people with covered bodies can't have their race assumed?

>>55184439
now you're just baiting

Newfag here, why we're ad Mech and skitaari ever separate factions

>>55184424
>>55184438
They're the logical outcome of a government that began as a contemporary liberal movement. They're like Space DPRChina mixed with Space Ancient India.

>>55184448
Oh yeah, definitely. Horseshoe theory and all that. In the process of removing what you hate, you become what you hate.

>>55184438
>>55184424
>Caste system
Yeah, but none of the castes are higher or lower than each other
It basically just decides what job they do
Everyone is valued equally, no matter their job in the tau society
Apart from the Ethereals

>>55184447
i had that discussion yesterday with someone IRL and it's very simple
Skitarii are the infantry tasked to defen titans on the grounds
and cult mechanicus are the the tech priest and robots plus electro priests

>>55184446
I didn't put enough effort into it for it to be bait.

>>55184463
Skitarii are not the Titan Guard. Secutarii are a seperate force. Skitarii is just a generic term for AdMech infantry in 40k, in 30k they were the elite forces that defended Forge Worlds.

>>55184463
Sure there is a distinction, in the same way imperial guard and tanks are different.

What justified or warranted the distinction?

>>55184458
>Everyone is valued equally, no matter their job in the tau society
This is not true. The caste system has an economy. The economics of the caste system places value on a specific caste based on the needs of the Tau at the time. If there are more Water Caste than there should be and the Tau need more Earth Caste, the surplus Water Caste babies/kids are often euthanised or oveworked to kill them off in order to return the balance, or Earth Caste families are given concessions or benefits if they have more children. Earth Caste members who refuse to contribute more babies are punished with rehabilitiation or death should they not respond well to treatment.

The "market" of the castes are decided by the Ethereals, based on what they decide are the needs of the Tau at any given time.

>>55184458
All animals are equal but some are more equal than others. First among equals etc etc

Liberalism is defined by freedoms for anyone. It's in the name, like "use liberally" as in freely. Tau are born into their castes and forbidden to do any job that goes across this boundary. An Earth Caste Scientist cannot ever enlist for combat or pilot a ship. You also can't fuck anyone outside of your caste.

Tau society is equal, but everyone's equally restricted.

>>55184478
because the skitarii are an elite guard
the cult is an entire different things

>>55184478
Crunch wise there was no good reason, fluff wise the Skitarii are the generic force Forge Worlds send out to do battle. Battle Congregations are gatherings of forces from the different groups that exist in the structure of the Mechanicus, i.e. Ordo Reductor, Legio Cybernetica, Auxilia Myrmidon, etc. lead by a Dominus.

>>55184478
Skitarii are AdMech Space Marines. That's the distinction.

>>55183255
Alternatively, a source without transparent data or based on an incomplete data set (both apply here) should not be taken, nor presented as evidence.

>>55184498
Skitarii were only an elite guard in 30k, in 40k they're a generic disposable force that the AdMech sends out in droves.

>>55184492
also a Por'O ( the highest rank in the earth caste)
made a Pot in clay
when the ethereal in charge asked him what was the point of this pot the Por'O sayed" it's pretty"
he was reeducated into a camp
that's really far from liberalism

>>55184490
Yes, there is a balance
But I mean, there is no "Upper Caste" or "Lower Caste"

>>55184492
You can have a liberal society that is authoritarian
That is what communism is

>>55184516
my mistake

File: subjective maths.png (808KB, 1457x280px) Image search: [Google]

808KB, 1457x280px

>imperium planetary ownership % is higher than in any of the 3 regions
How does that even work.

>>55184518
lmao seriously? Got a source?

>>55184530
The overall ticker has been pretty much stuck for a day now. GW probably fucked it up when they "fixed" the previous planet.

>>55184530
The middle region is just way bigger than the other two
America or Europe
I don't know which is bigger honestly
Europe I suppose?

>>55184518
You're arguing your shit based on the increasingly-archaic definition of liberalism. It's sad, but true. A modern, young liberal would see a system like the Tau and probably thinks it's fantastic, whereas an aged liberal would abhorr it in every possible way.
>>55184525
>But I mean, there is no "Upper Caste" or "Lower Caste"
There is. Tau are very much based on Orwell's depiction of English Socialism in 1984, with a few adjustments. The Inner Party are the Ethereals, the Outer Party are the cates, and the Proles are the Tau Member Races. Tau have often in the lore been depicted looking down on the member races, just as Winston looks down on the proles (only because he is supposed to as demanded by the party, when in reality he is infatuated with them).

Each member of the Outer Party is given a job from birth (like the Castes), and some do jobs that are very important based on the climate of the superstate, while others don't. Winston lives in a building where other Minrec members live, and he only ever sees other dept members when eating or when attending party meetings.

>>55183804
People who don't play the game being cunts for the sake of being cunts.

These people are the born again Christian types. They were ex prostitutes with alcohol problems so they "found the lord/became a SJW" and now they're saved and want to abuse everyone else to "save" them.

They have no interest in the game, it's simply another way to virtue signal. Any behaviour like this should be responded to with pictures of gollywogs. If they want more blacks then they can have gollywogs or nothing.

>>55184531
welp i didn't found shit
i first read this on /tg/

So people that spoke to Pete Foley at the Nova Open are reporting that he said plastic Sisters of Battle were on their "wishlist" of things they would like to do.

In other words, they're not even planned right now, let alone in production. This means we won't see them til 2019 at the earliest if they're even done this edition.

RIP Sistersfags.

Any scan of the new white dwarf floating around?

>>55184587
No true Scotsman arguments aren't helpful. Have an actual test for what being a liberal means http://wmbriggs.com/post/16454/

>>55184604
>You're both authoritarians
>You're
I'm not anything, faggot.

No one gives a fuck about your politics autism, you faggots, shut the fuck up.

>>55184612
i have it near me
question is, dp your read baguette ?

Keep pol in pol. Fuck off retards.

>>55184615
That's fair, I shouldn't have assumed, anon.

>>55184611
>this is somehow shocking or relevant news
Seriously. I've been playing them through it all. We've been getting plastic "soon" for 12 years now. The only people who think they're coming are trolls, newfags, or morons.