/tgesg/ - Weekend Elder Scrolls Lore General

How much of the history of Morrowind is Azura fucking with Dunmer for her own amusement?

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I'm claiming this thread for the glory of Alkosh.

>>55171983
what this

Just a note to thank MK for saying it's ok for me make up my own TES lore. Without his say-so I wouldn't have been allowed to do it. But now we're all free to do so! Because of MK. That thing MK wrote. MK's little story. Thanks MK.

>>55173707
Keep the MK/Lady N related squabbling to a minimum.

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>>55173433
Mananaut.

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>there are people in this general who think they can beat a god.
G R A N D

A
N
D

I N T O X I C A T I N G

>>55170866
She only fucks with them when they deserve it like after the red mountain debacle.

>>55173904
What goes on Dagoth Ur's shopping list?

>>55174104
Wraithguard and a few other necessities.

>>55173816
Who's squabbling? We'd be nothing without MK and I don't think it's said often enough.

>>55173816
I bet he thinks he's real clever with that low-quality bait too.

>>55174901
It would be kind of interesting to speculate what TES would have become without MK. He is not the only source for interesting lore. We definitely wouldn't have Muatras and Moebius/Nausicaa aesthetics though.

>>55176695
Probably pretty boring, mostly standard cookie-cutter fantasy. I'm talking "Victorian Drow." There still might be some entertainment value there, and it wouldn't make much of a difference for people who only play the games. And no sci-fi stuff.

>>55176992
Isn't there sci-fi stuff also from other authors? I don't remember exactly who, but pretty sure it's not MK only. Might be that MK invented it though.

>>55176695
I have mixed feelings about MK. I like his effort to try and make things seem mythological and do some of that early 20th century/late 20th century style of fantasy where things are sorta solipstic. But I can't help but feel like it gets TOO far up its own ass in esoteric stuff sometimes. Like reading the Sword Meeting of Vivec and Cyrus vs the Sword Meeting of Tiber Septim and Cyrus. One is interesting and manages to convey a good sense of the weirdness of TES while the other goes a bit too far into it.

But to steer it away from MK, I got a question for the thread. Two of 'em, actually.

>>55170764
I've been looking up some information about TES universe since I neither have a degree in theology nor have I consumed enough lore information to really know for sure. But my friends are pestering me to do a game in the setting and I'm seeing a bunch of stuff about the Yokudans/Ra Gada/Redguards having spirit blades of pure light. While I think the Swordsinger/Ansu thing of being able to transcend mortal boundaries by virtue of their craft is cool. The most I can find on the Ansei stuff right now is through ESO and I have no idea how they're going to react to that source.

And secondly...I know Morrowind is a bit of a sacred cow...but I fucking hate that the Imperials in it have generic Roman armor, especially when the descriptions have them in both a jungle and with heavy Akaviri influences. So my question is, has anyone postulated what might the Imperial Legion look like taking those two things into account(I also just hate generic cookie-cutter Roman armor interjected into fantasy in general)?.

>>55177140
I known kuhlmann and goodall contributed to that side of the setting but idk how prominent it was

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>>55170764
Obviously we all know the typical derogatory terms for people; n'wah, s'wit, milkdrinker, etc.
Are there lesser known terms?
Are there absurdly specific ones between Khajiiti forms?

>>55177140
You'd still have Battlespire in some form. But, on the other hand, people would still care as little for it as they do now if not less. I actually don't know to what extent the development of Redguard impacted the lore of Battlespire. Either way, it wouldn't be as prevalent if not for him.

And the Dwemer would be actual dwarves. Like, fantasy dwarves.

>>55177219
>Guar
>Guar
>Barenziah
Excellent insults guys, great work all around.

>>55176695
It would be the world as presented in the games, without the (irrelevant) metaphysics. The aesthetic of Morrowind might be somewhat different, but probably not to a large degree. Lorefags would concentrate on characters and history rather than lolling it up with farting mountains or gay cyborgs from the future.

>>55176992
>blind MKfag
>>>/leddit/

>>55177153
>I fucking hate that the Imperials in it have generic Roman armor, especially when the descriptions have them in both a jungle and with heavy Akaviri influences.
When you talk to armorers about imperial gear, they have some neat flavor text describing it. I think the text works a lot better than the models and textures do, and are less roman--might be worth looking into.

>>55170764
>Keep the MK/Lady N related squabbling to a minimum.
Just another reminder

>>55177293
>responding to your own bait because no one got angry
Look at him. Look at him and laugh.

>>55177300
Thanks for the heads up, I've looked at the armor guides from Morrowind and afterwards and all I can get from it is a bunch of descriptions of what materials they used within it. Do you by chance mean armorers as in blacksmiths in Morrowind?

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>>55177153
>my friends are pestering me to do a game in the setting
I'm actually jealous of you right now. The only other guy I know IRL who's into TES isn't into tabletop.

>I think the Swordsinger/Ansu thing of being able to transcend mortal boundaries by virtue of their craft is cool
"Mortal boundaries" is kind of hard to pin down in TES anyway.

Anyway, read the following sources about them:
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Varieties_of_Faith...#Leki
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Redguards,_Their_History_and_Their_Heroes
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:From_The_Memory_Stone_of_Makela_Leki
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Divad_the_Singer
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Notes_For_Redguard_History
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Pocket_Guide_to_the_Empire,_3rd_Edition/Other_Lands
In general the idea of Sword-Singers is firmly established in Daggerfall.

As for ESO, just talk to your players about it. If they want it that's fine, and if they don't that's fine too. I personally wouldn't base anything upon ESO lore, but if ESO does something fun that I think is consistent with the other lore, I'd use it in my game.

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>>55177153
>Ansei
Sword Singing/the Shehai Shen She Ru is a form of tonal magic, like the Thu'um or Tonal Architecture of the Dwemer. Since you've already read Vivec's Sword Meeting, I'll drop some other sources at you:
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/redguards-history-and-heroes
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/compilation-redguard-history
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/notes-redguard-history
http://monkeytruth.net/texts/meditationtriumph.shtml

Pictures: the sinking of Yokuda after the use of the Pankratosword.

(There's good concept art by MK of Redguard era legionnaire armor. I'll post it if someone else doesn't.)

>>55177293
>He doesn't know a single thing about how the series was created and developed
PGE doesn't even get written in the first place if MK isn't there. Imagine, say, the Might and Magic series. That's the level the lore of the franchise would be at today without his work.

>>55177277
I'd imagine calling someone a guar" would be like calling them a dog, or maybe a bitch.

>>55170866
None if it

Cursing them after Red Mountain is literally all she could do

Also I hate this meme of making "humorously" blunt, absurdly simplistic descriptions of things.

>>55177351
Huh, i guess I was wrong. I can't find the dialogue I was talking about on uesp, although I can't boot up the game to check.

>>55177383
Don't be too jealous, they're not into CHIM or HEART OF LORKHAN or any of those bits. They like Skyrim and uhhh...memes about Oblivion dialogue. The big reason they're against ESO is because they've heard ESO is bad from a lore point of view, but they don't really know why. Three of them haven't even done tabletop so this is sorta a fresh experience for most of them.

Thanks for the sources, I'll take a look over them. What I mean by "mortal boundaries" is that TES might have all this grand cosmic weirdness, but a sword does what a sword does. Except if you're some guy from Yokuda and you've poured so much of your time and soul into this sword that you can cut in ways no sword should be able to cut. Just feels a bit more fun that "I'M A FUCKING WIZARD".

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>>55177409
Second era Cyrodilic armor.

>>55177438
Are none of the morrowind armor style pages on uesp sources? That's obnoxious if that's the case.

>>55177458
bit of his dunmer work sneaking into the Imperial Guard outfit

>>55177458
why have a straight sword if it's single edged?

>>55177478
Must be Nibenese cultural appropriation.

>>55177484
Like a machete? For chopping through all the foliage in the basin, maybe.

>>55177409
>updates right after I post

Shit!

Thanks for the other sources as well as the armor here.>>55177458 It looks a bit cooler than stuff like the Skyrim-era armor or the Oblivion/ESO stuff, bit more distinct.

>>55177438
Thanks for checking anyway, friend. I'll bring up the game later tonight to run around and explore for myself since a lot of my experience with TES has been sorta backwards since I never got the chance to play it until a year before Skyrim came out and I ended up starting with Oblivion.

>>55177478
Yeah, it's got the Redoran style helmet.

>>55177518
seems inefficient for combat

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>>55177520
You can see the same design in a cutscene from Redguard (that's Tiber btw).

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Hello /tgesg/

I'm making a wiki for TES

Which is the most reasonable way to do NPC pages?

>a short introduction of the most important things about the NPC, followed by information on their items and stats, schedule, conversation lines/options, quests, and faction membership presented in lists or concise prose (as suitable) under separate headlines
>a shitty word-padded high school essay of all of the above

>>55177579
Thanks!

Man, Tiber needs to lose some weight or get some better fit clothes, boi be lookin' fat as fuck.

>>55177607
Why would you do that when there's UESP?

Do you think the Nerevar Reborn was a sham?

Azura could conceivably bless the person who looks the closest to fulfill her prophecy and say that they were always Nerevar?
Anyone who said otherwise would be declared salty about Azura's prophecy coming true.

>>55177790
That ambiguity is overtly a central theme in Morrowind ya dingus

Also I think there's some stuff about something indicating Vivec used to prevent the prophecy from being fulfilled but decided to let the PC through because he needed him to defeat Dagoth Ur

>>55177790
Morrowind makes it pretty clear IMO that anyone (though you might need to be born under certain sign etc.) can become Nerevarine, but it's a hard work. I don't doubt Nerevarine prophecy isn't metaphysically real, but it really seems more like mantling than reincarnation.

Then again all of it could be just coincidences and given Azura's track record of not being very honest, that's a real possibility.

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sometimes i feel like the world would be better if it was just different types of mer. the wood elves, the frost elves, the sea elves, the dark elves, the high elves, etc. i kind of like the idea of just a would of different elves that were created for specific biomes from their gods. like instead of cat niggers there would be sand elves, instead of argonians there would be swamp elves, etc.

anyone else?

>>55178417
cat niggers ARE sand elves, silly

>>55178417
Go home, YR.

This be men land now.

>>55178454
that means they WERE elves, and are no longer

side note orcs being elves is fucking bullshit and i refuse to accept it

>>55179143
What's your issue with it?

>>55179934
I assume it's because Orcs aren't frilly little faggots who sip tea and run through fields.

>>55177313
Sadly for you, no. Which means I get to laugh at you for being so precious about your shit lore opinions that you have to create mental fantasies to sustain them against opposition.

Stay mad, sweetcakes. I'm so under your skin. :)

>>55177409
>>muh PGE
You are so full of shit. The PGE1 is irrelevant too. Oh wait, am I wrong? Is Cyrodiil a big jungle full of exotic Nibenaens and hardy Nedic Colovians? Are the Altmer all uniformed, named by number and infanticidal? Is any of the exotic stuff from PGE even canon any more, outside of your "MUH C0DA" pretend canon where only what you like counts? No, it is not. You're like a SWfag squealing about stuff in the EU but it's already been left behind a long time ago. Deal with it.

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>>55180079
I'm sorry your life has led you up to the point that this is what you do with your spare time.

>>55180153
>filename
>COME, NEREVAR, COME
I didnt ask for this boner

>>55180079
1. The PGE is Imperial propaganda which still, in that capacity, reveals enormous and foundational swathes of the lore.
2. Cyrodiil was a jungle. It is filled with Nibenese and Colovians, even in the video game Oblivion. Nothing in the PGE is "not canon" even if it's not reflected in the games because
2a. It was all "true" in-universe at the time of writing and
2b. The games are an imperfect rendering of the lore, the "true" Tamriel.
To use your example: from a lore perspective, Cyrodiils transformation from a jungle to New Zealand was

Wait, why the fuck am I writing this for you? Suck a cock, retard.

>>55179934
with what? cat nigs or green nigs?

the orcs being elven bother me because they're absolutely nothing like the bosmer, altmer, dunmer, or falmer- who all have similar features

>>55180444
Being metaphysically shat out will do that to you

>>55180444
I was saying green nigs. And fair enough I suppose'.

>>55180466
I guess this guy has the right of it, though I'd say the orcs to me have always been a weird point. They just never have come across as the pariahs they're supposed to be to me.

>>55180444
>absolutely nothing like the bosmer, altmer, dunmer, or falmer
Yes, exactly. That's the point of the orcs. They don't fit in with the other elves, and most don't consider them elves at all. Just like how Malacath isn't considered a daedric prince by the other princes. An outcast god for an ostracized people.

So if the orcs being elves bothers you, then congrats on your immersion. It bothers people in-game too.

>>55180815
>They just never have come across as the pariahs they're supposed to be to me.
Agreed. The stuff about them only being playable characters post Daggerfall is cool, but everything else just treats them like any other playable race.

>>55181069
I'd chalk that one up to the games...not really factoring in your race all that much. Like how Khajit aren't allowing in Skyrim towns but you can walk wherever the fuck you want if you're a catman.

To flip this back to the thread, how would you handle racial shit at your table?

new to the thread, i assume this is about turning other ttrpgs into tes themed worlds?

>>55181322
Yeah, that's why I'm asking about some of the lore outside of the games.

Good stuff to work with.

>>55181322
It's more about lore sperging in general and sometimes discourse about playing Morrowind. Still, there's actual RPG out there. See OP's post for that.

>>55182321
Has anyone here actually tried the official RPG?

>>55180153
What exactly happens to Dagoth Ur as the Heart is getting disabled? In the game, technically, he disappears. Did he zero-sum? Vivec and friends didn't disappear. You can say it's because of the faith of their believers, but Dagoth also had this army of lepers who loved him a whole lot.

>>55183142
He's trapped in the Dreamsleeve and can no longer dream himself back into Mundus, I assume.

>>55182562
not really

>>55183294
Not exactly. The Heart was more his anchor, the thing keeping him in the world. With it gone, he's able to fully die. The reason Dagoth's in the dreamsleeve in the first place is because he's dead, just he's holding onto the heart to prevent him from falling into the oceans of the afterlife.

>>55184165
>Tribunal get their ass kicked by a ghost
Wow, they really suck.

>>55184181
For hundreds of years they were the ones doing the ass kicking, Dagoth Ur kept reviving along with the Ash Vampires. Then the Sixth House got lucky once and stole Keening and Sunder.

>>55184262
Weren't they only encountered once though? I thought Dagoth Ur only reformed once, and then ambushed the Tribunal. Prior to that he wasn't around.

>>55184326
No.

>"In the past, the Tribunal made seasonal campaigns to Red Mountain. We slew Dagoth Ur and his kin, though the Heart always revived them in time. Later, when we realized we couldn't destroy them, we created the Ghostfence to contain the threat. These solutions were effective until Dagoth Ur ambushed us and captured Sunder and Keening. Since that time, our fortunes have waned as his increased."

>>55184340
Ah, got it confused. Thought they were awake for thousands of years, but he only awoke at the end of the second era.
Also huh, that means the Tribunal have only lost the tools for about fifteen years according to the timeline.

>>55184392
Yep. Like I said, the Tribunal spent centuries kicking Dagoth Ur and his cronies all over the shop. It was just that one fuckup.

Probably Almalexia's fault.

>>55184399
It was more that the vampires stopped them from recharging their powers and ever reaching the heart chamber, so they became weaker and weaker.

>>55184472
Which happened because of the fuckup where they got ambushed and the tools were stolen.

>>55184512
No, this was prior to that. Each time from 882 to the end they tried and failed to reach the heart chamber to recharge their powers. By the time they lost the tools, they hadn't been able to charge up for many years.

>>55184547
Where's that ever said? Vivec makes zero mention of it in Morrowind.

>>55184553
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dagoth_Ur%27s_Plans

>2E 882: The Tribunal arrive at Red Mountain for their annual ritual bathing in the heart's power. Dagoth Ur and ash vampires ambush the Tribunal. The Tribunes are driven away, and prevented from restoring themselves with Kagrenac's tools at the Heart of Lorkhan.
>2E 882-3E 417: Intermittent Tribunal campaigns assault Red Mountain. The Tribunal and supporting forces seek to force access to the Heart Chamber, but are repeatedly driven back.

>>55177563
Look up falchion or scimitar anon

>>55184558
"Bathing" still sounds so dirty to me. Like they strip naked and get in a hot tub with the heart.

>>55184665
>scimitar
These arn't at all the same as machetes, these are swords used by light cavalry that slash through niggas, rather than chopping.

That said, chopping swords are alright and were used IRL, they're just less adaptable than straight, double-edged swords, which could be used for both slashing, cutting, chopping and stabbing.

>>55184673
>dirty
Sounds incredibly hot tbqh

I'm looking for more good ES lore, but I think I'm tapped out

I've read most of the in-game books and a good amount of MK's stuff. Is C0DA worth reading? I don't really like stuff that extends past the 4th era, but if it's good I'll check it out.

Or just tell me your favorite bits of lore/books/esoterica and we can circlejerk about that.

>>55182562
Not the new edition.

>>55185444
Have you read the Nu-Mantia Intercept?

>>55185633
Yeah, I thought it was pretty cool, though it didn't need so many random nonsense words.

I can deal with dreamsleeve, and even memospore if it isn't used too often, but there was other shit that was pretty unnecessary.

The metaphysics and overarching connection of the game plots were fun though, and I did like the double meaning aspect of Elnofex

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Someone made some cool Senchal concept art for our server, thought I'd share it
I'm not here to plug the server but if you have MC you can check it out

>>55185921
>Rice terraces
Hmmm yes this will do

What does a nightingale exactly do once he/she is in evergloam?

Is there any city in Tamriel that could match the beauty and prosper of Daggerfall? I doubt it, Wayrest tries but will never be Daggerfall's equal.

>>55185999
THERE IS BUT ONE CITY.

THE IMPERIAL CITY.

>>55186059
No, as grand as the Imperial Palace is the shacks that surround it mean it will never be an equal to Daggerfall.

>>55186091
Well, when you're the biggest city in Tamriel..

>>55173707
Go away MK, you're retarded.

>>55186091
Riddle me this, if Daggerfall is so great, why isn't it the capital?

Checkmate, Direnni.

>>55176992
MK didn't contribute even most of the good and weird lore. That's a reddit tier belief, brought on by the circle jerk of uninformed and ignorant retards there.

>>55185859
>random nonsense words
That's something that annoys me in other settings, but I think MK mostly pulls it off. These words aren't total nonsense, most of them they actually have a real or, via context clues, discernible meaning. It's the closest I've ever felt to reading a believable document from another setting. The Shonni-etta excels at this, if you haven't read it yet. That's inseparable from the Remanada of course, and then there's the whole Pelinal cycle (The Song of Pelinal, Fragments from the Adabal-a, Lament for Pelinal, Trials of St. Alessia).

>>55186234
Are you the retarded one? That person is clearly criticizing him.

>>55186278
You too. Retard.

>>55186382
Not the anon you're replying to, but sometimes I feel like MK's stuff just tries too hard to be esoteric and complicated.

>>55186394
The beliefs expressed in the pro-mk posts are legitimately held beliefs by reddit. Also,
>I/he was just pretending.
No

What's the biggest city in Skyrim at the start of the 4th era?

>>55186382
Yeah, I'm a huge fan of the Pelinal works, and they look like an actual historical compilation (though I don't really like song 10 for the same reasons as some of his other works)

I like Remanada, but Shonni-etta leaves a weird taste in my mouth.

Honestly though, when it works, it works, which is why I find some of the Lessons incredible and others unbearable.

>>55186640
Population, acreage?

>>55186606
I get that, but I appreciate that is/attempts to be comparable to real life religious esotericism. I mean, there are actual real world texts that are way more wacky than anything he's written. The closer something is to say, the bible, the more I like it. The more believable it is as an actual text from another world, and not just Tolkien fanfiction. So something like this:
>“When he has reached manhood, teach him all that you know of the flesh, and then save within yourselves his seed, and let it not take purchase within either of you, store it all, whichsoever body-cup he spills into, and in secret make of it bread for him to eat. And keep this new edict of the Convention quiet from all others, even from him, and know by this mention that it is my lord Aka the King of Heaven who commands it.”
absolutely tickles my fancy, if you catch my meaning. That's not to say he always hits the mark, sometimes it definitely goes a little too silly. But for the most part I dig it.

>>55186607
This is sort of pathetic, isn't it? It just goes to show how little your opinion matters if it's so easily swayed by what people on some other site think. And I know it's hard to read tone over the internet, but you must be legitimately autistic if you think he wasn't shitting on MK.

>>55185147
Double edged swords were less suited to slashing because a single edged sword of the same width could have a steeper edge and thus be sharper.

>>55186654
The tenth song and the 37th sermon are...yeah. It'll take time to digest that.

I do really love this line though:
>And in her Biting she tunneled up and then downward, while her brother and sister smeared across heaven, thin ruptures of dissent, food for scarabs and the Worm. She took her people and made them safe, and sat with Azura drawing her own husband's likeness in the dirt.

>>55186640
>>55186671

I'd say Solitude on both counts

>>55186739
My opinion has always been the same. I have a low opinion of Reddit because of the consensus on MK over there, not the other way around.

>>55186804
I actually kind of liked sermon 37, and he said he might write 11 more, so here's hoping.

Honestly though, the stuff about moving at strange angles, thought and belief influencing reality, mythic repetition/significance, and just the overall cyclical and mirroring feel of his stuff is what I really enjoy about TES. (not that the day-to-day lives of people in Tamriel or the history or religion isn't interesting on its own)

>>55186935
What I like is where history and metaphysics intersect, like how the concept of multiple people being condensed into stories of a single person due to historical inaccuracy (like King Arthur or something) is played with in Talos or the Shezarrines. The slightly meta aspects.

Kirkbride writes metaphysical/religious texts in the style of what influenced him.

Liber Legis:
>I am the Hawk-Headed Lord of Silence & of Strength; my nemyss shrouds the night-blue sky.
>Hail! ye twin warriors about the pillars of the world! for your time is nigh at hand.
>I am the Lord of the Double Wand of Power; the wand of the Force of Coph Nia--but my left hand is empty, for I have crushed an Universe; & nought remains.
>Paste the sheets from right to left and from top to bottom: then behold!
>There is a splendour in my name hidden and glorious, as the sun of midnight is ever the son.
>The ending of the words is the Word Abrahadabra.

The Kybalion:
>The truth that “the Universe is Mental – held in the Mind of THE ALL.” As the Kybalion says, in the passage quoted above: “All is in THE ALL. But note also the co-related statement, that: “It is equally true that THE ALL is in ALL.” This apparently contradictory statement is reconcilable under the Law of Paradox. It is, moreover, an exact Hermetic statement of the relations existing between THE ALL and its Mental Universe.

Thrice-Greatest Hermes, Vol. 1:
>For Isis is the feminine of Nature and that which is capable of receiving the whole of genesis; in virtue of which she has been called “Nurse” and “All-receiving” by Plato, and, by the multitude, “She of ten-thousand names,” through her being transformed by Logos and receiving all forms and ideas.

I'm now knowledgeable enough to mention Vedic influences.

>>55186671
Pure Population

>>55186808
I don't know about that, Solitude seems, in the lore, like it's built on the arch and only on the arch, it has a very limited space and needs to use it as well as possible. Windhelm has a similar problem in that it was built very long ago and couldn't be built out as the population in it fluctuates. Some place like Falkreath would be the largest in pure acreage, if only because it has unlimited room to grow and isn't surrounded by any real useable ground. I'm basing this analysis on real life examples though, cities here in Sweden become much less dense the further up you go, and some of them wouldn't even count as one settlement down here, but they certainly do up there because the standards of what a city is, not to mention the city planning, is so different in the different biome.

>>55186791
Of course, but the adaptability is much less when you make the sword with a specific purpose in mind.

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>>55185999
You switched Daggerfall and Wayrest there friendo.

>>55187329
If by pure population, then Windhelm, since it's in the middle of a refugee crisis.

Speaking of daggerfall, last time I tried to get into it, apparently there was a time restraint on the quest.
Are all the quests gonna be like this? Can I ever just run around without caring when something is due?

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>>55187578
You're right, by the time of Skyrim a lot of them have went back to Morrowind or relocated from Windhelm where they all came to at first.

Man, Windhelm a few months after the destruction of Red Mountain must have been horrible, Dunmer starving in the street and formerly abdoned houses stuffed to the brim with families.

By Azura, the Dunmer are in a slum still twohundred years after the eruption, will they ever get right? At least move out and found "new vivec" right on the other side of the river or something?

>>55187652
A lot of quests have timers on them. Spending time exploring dungeons is generally more fun.

>>55187652
>Are all the quests gonna be like this?
Pretty much, aside from some of the main story quests.

If you're just going to run around, don't accept any quests. Generally you just want to accept one quest at a time, complete it, turn it in, and then do something else.

>>55187672
gypsy race confirmed

>>55187724
>>55187725
Okay then how far into the mainquest do i need to go until they give me something without a timer

>>55173707
It really was one of the greater trollings of life
>notice that dumb nerds and fedora autists really like your world building copied from eastern mythology
>They praise you as a creative god
>Tell them to stop being autists and then invent C0DA to rub salt and vinegar into the wound.

>>55187762
After you've met Lady Brisienna, you won't have an active quest, and thus no timer.

>start in privateer's hold
>get out
>automatically receive letter
>meet her at location stated in letter
You're now free to do everything at your own leisure.

>>55187672
Are you talking about the ones in Windhelm? Because I always assumed a big part of why they were in slums was because the locals kept them there.

But Bethesda can't into time, so 200 years is a bit weird.

>>55187878
I doubt he was trolling. He always struck me as genuinely believing that his input was required to save the lore community from itself. He's a fucking ponce.

>>55187953
You must be a mind reader or something.

>>55187880
oh, last time i tried i thought it just led into another quest immediately. there must have been a "not right now" option or something i didn't pay attention to.

>>55182562
I tried 2E on a one-off session. I died. It was fun.

What does Menevia look like in game? The city, not the county.

>>55188208
Any particular tips you got about the system? Likes, dislikes?

>>55188008
Just basing it on past interactions with the community. What's more likely? An arrogant ponce acts like an arrogant ponce, or that he's some sort of benevolent genius troll warrior?

>>55188463
Or that he just fucking wrote a story about characters he's been writing since the 90s.

>>55188475
Oh, so you haven't read his and LadyN's justification of c0da. They've explicitly said that they were writing it to fix the "canon problem" in the community.

1. There wasn't a problem
2. c0da just made things worse, because now it inevitably gets brought up in any discussion and shit gets flung.

>>55188501
You're just making shit up now because her post says nothing of the sort. In fact, it goes out of its way multiple times to say that c0da isn't "a headcanon."

>>55188501
it only gets shit flung by people who argue canonicity, who think a company owns a universe and the company that made it are the same ones that still "own" it.
I have yet to see anyone pro-coda fling shit about coda being hardcanon or even noncanon, but maybe you live in different circles than I do.

>>55188588
>Still: Folks didn't want to believe. There were drive-by "canon/not canon" bullets, asshole on all five sides of this Thing who simply couldn't accept that THE WAR REALLY IS OVER AND THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS CANON ANYMORE

You were saying?

>>55188501
>1. There wasn't a problem
Did tld canon kill the emperor or not?
Is sheo canon coc?
The FUCK happened to the agent, according to canon? Where is he?

>>55186739
Thanks for the response. Theology is fun stuff.

I 'unno. I always felt like Old Testament stuff was easier to understand than some of MK's weirder stuff. Like I said before, Sword Meeting of Vivec vs the Tiber Septim one, Vivec's is weird...but it sounds much more like an old story being told to people whereas the Tiber Septim one just feels really confusing. The perspective past/present changes don't help either.

See, I got a differing opinion, I like when the texts in-game and outside of it treat themselves like poor translations or biased opinions of past stuff. The PGE's are great because of the various commentaries. Much like how you have various translations and imaginings of the bible rather than it itself being just super confusing. To be fair, though, I think a lot of the almost superfluous weirdness comes from the games retconning stuff written before them.

>>55188670
>Did tld canon kill the emperor or not?
We won't have an idea until the next game or product of the series touches on it.

>Is sheo canon coc?
Yes.

>The FUCK happened to the agent, according to canon? Where is he?

No clue.

>>55188653
But he's right. And there never really was.

>>55188748
Wrong on both counts.

>>55188781
>Because I said so

>>55188933
Canon existed before c0da (remember, bethesda took great care to work out that the "canon" ending of daggerfall was all 6, merged in a dragonbreak). c0da is a noncanon work. A noncanon work cannot override canon.

Therefore, canon still exists, and will, until someone who actually has authority comes out and does away with it.

>>55189017
I'm not aware of a single point where coda overrides hardcanon, but I'm sure you have a list or something where I can learn otherwise?

>>55187329
I'm guessing the Imperials didn't have adaptability in mind, which is weird because they seem like the, "generalist" race.

>>55189052
it overrides hard canon by eliminating the idea of canon.

>>55176695
Well hopefully there would be no more of that Vivec fag.

>>55189017
What's "canon" within the series, as in choices the player makes, has nothing to do with the canonicity of various texts. Those are two completely separate concepts.

>>55189126
Sure. But under neither concept is c0da canon.

c0da is about as relevant to teslore discussions as my fanfiction featuring gangsta rap, power rangers, and transexual dieties just wanting to finally get married to a big black elf.
Oh wait.

>>55189158
Yep, what you write isn't canon because no one gives a shit about you. That's the difference.

>>55189158
good thing this is /tescanongeneral/
Oh wait.

>>55189171
Giving a shit about my writings isn't the factor that makes something canon anon.

President Trump himself could write c0da and it still wouldn't be canon. (It would be better though!)

>>55189181
Lore discussions are canon discussions anon, not fanfiction discussions.

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>check thread
>it's 150 posts of canon debate and shitposting
Okay good thread see yall next week.

>>55189189
>Lore discussions are canon discussions anon
And where in the games does it say that?
Remember, only canon examples count!

>>55189213
Thank goodness we have c0da to do away with such discussions and not exacerbate them!

>>55189189
If everyone gave a shit about what you had to say then we'd be talking about it in these threads. But we don't because no one does.

Not this shit again.

>>55189235
You are talking about what I have to say though.

>>55189232
Fuck you. No one talks about c0da except when fags like you are complaining about it. If anyone ever wonders these threads are shit, look no further than people who don't like c0da, and don't like Kirkbride. Look at the first ten posts in this thread.

>>55189213
The guy bitches about eso too, frankly I wouldn't be surprised to see him argue ts6 won't be canon either.
It's very annoying to post a source for something just to have him chimp out and ruin the thread.

>>55189261
In the first ten posts of the thread, a person posted that kirkbride was the best thing to happen in the lore. People disagreed with this, while still recognizing his contributions, and the kirkbride internet defense force started the shitposting.

Nice try though.

>>55189253
Only insofar as letting you know that neither I or anyone else give a shit about it, and in the context of you having brought it up in the first place.

>few years ago there was arguing about if Skyrim is canon
>last thread was arguing about if ESO is canon
>this thread is arguing about if c0da is canon
What's left after this? Arguing if canon is canon?

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>>55189272
I'm getting trolled and I know it. I legitimately hope you get cancer.

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Windhelm, Riften, Markarth, Whiterun, Solitude, Dawnstar, Winterhold and Morthal.

Anvil, Bravil, Bruma, Cheydinhal, Chorrol, Kvatch and Leyawiin.

Leyawiin sounds like a native name used by Khajiit while Cheydinhal sounds more Dunmer than Imperial. Why are Cyrodilic cities named this way? We don't see Windhelm going under the name of what the Dunmer call it.

>>55189213
ikr
I see the thread at 150 posts and im like 'oh fuck im missing out on some discussion.'
Nope.
Oh and we're doing these threads bi-weekly now.

>>55189292
Leyawiin was originally a city in Elsweyr IIRC.

>>55189313
I know that but you'd think that it would adopt a more Nibenese sounding name and Leyawiin would exist as a local name, like what Istanbul was.

>>55189273
sure anon. just keep giving me (you)s.

Kirkbride is and always will be a twat.

>>55189289
I know you've been to reddit, and you and I both know that the first post was not sarcastic.the KIDF can't help itself.

>>55189300
We did it bi-weekly because last thread lasted almost the entire week

>>55189292
Neither of those cities specifically sound that way you are just choosing to see it as such.
Likewise Cyrodiil had the convenience of having all its settlements named after Arena, so no generic ass cookie cutter fantasy names.

>>55189355
How can I not see them as such? Is there an established Dunmer language I can reference?

I think most reasonable people believe that c0da has some interesting concepts in it, is overall poorly written/plotted out, and ultimately failed to reconcile the two sides in the lore community.

You get the kirkbride fanatics on both sides who think that everything he touches is shit/gold. Which also helps to exacerbate it.

Overall, it's better if kirkbride isn't brought up. There's plenty of interesting lore to discuss without getting into his stuff.

>>55189385
You can not see it as such by just thinking 'hey maybe those names are nibenese.'
What exactly is your basis for rhinking the are foreign?
The khajiiti name for the leyawiin area is 'Malapi.'

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>>55189434
My basis is how different they sound to Sutch, Kvatch, Anvil and Skingrad.

>>55189478
Those are all colovian cities, anon.

>>55189292
>Leyawiin
It's (probably) a Ta'agra name.

>Cheydinhal
There's a lot of Dunmeri influence in that region.

>>55189434
>The khajiiti name for the leyawiin area is 'Malapi.'
No.

>>55189484
I know but there were no Nibenese cities before Oblivion I could reference. Unless Mir Corrup and Artemon are Nibenese.

>>55189541
I thought as much, my question is what would their Nibenese names be?

>>55189548
And I'm saying that the nibenese cities for you to reference are the ones you seem inclined to believe have foreign names.

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>>55189300
>have to wait another week just to see if the thread stops being cancer
This is just a bad day all around.

>>55189418
I don't see why there's even a problem.
If the only source for a claim is something oog, like coda, and you don't think that counts, then fine. But throwing insults and blaming reddit and generally just ruining the thread because other people don't agree with it?
Seems like a lot of effort over what is literally already fiction.

>>55189650
It's a problem because memes say so.

>>55189596
Is it outside the realm of possibility? Leyawiin was once Elsweyr and Cheydinhal has a clear Dunmeri influence which might allude to a greater history.

>>55189650
There are two irreconcilable sides to the issue:

People who understand the definition of canon, and people who want to change it. That's a debate that won't end. It's just the nature of 4chan and internet arguments generally that causes the insults.

>>55189579
I'm not aware that they have separate "Nibenese" names, and I don't see why they would have.
Names often don't work like that.

>>55189709
What is bethesda's definition of canon anyway?
Looking through their site, uesp, and even wikia I see no definition for it anywhere.
It's almost like "canon" isn't even canon.

>>55189705
Given the Nibenese are literally the most pervasive culture in all of Tamriel, yes I find it veryhard to believe that the heart of their civilization would be at all superceded by foreigners.
The most prolific culture is always the assimilating force, if anything the lands over their borders would have nibenese sounding names.

>>55189741
Canon is a term that applies to more than just bethesda. It also has utility, but only with the proper definition: when people want to discuss "canon" or even "lore" in TES, they want to discuss what is or might be true within the context of the TES world.

"canon" doesn't preclude the possibility of theories about what is true, in fact it embraces it. What people aren't looking for in a discussion about TESlore is a poor attitude: "Well, I know it isn't true, but in my c0da, it is". That isn't helpful to anyone, and it's the kind of thing that c0da seems to have explicitly sanctioned to a lot of people.

I mean, we all have our fantasies, and it's cool that you do, but your specific fantasies aren't helpful to or wanted by the people discussing lore.

The other side of the argument are the canon extremists, who shut down discussion of theories about what might be canon because nothing has confirmed them yet. These people are just as incorrect, though slightly less unhelpful than the other side.

>>55189739
Different residents could have different names for them based on language, especially since Nibenay is more cosmopolitan than the rest of Cyrodiil.

>>55189813
>"Well, I know it isn't true, but in my c0da, it is".
While I'm not saying that doesn't happen, I haven't personally seen that be used as an actual argument here.
The complaints about coda, at least in my experience here, seem to be focused on mk's coda specifically.

>>55189877
Commonly, what I see is people presenting false or unconfirmed information as true, and then getting snippy when people ask for evidence.

For example, a while back there were one or two anon(s) acting as if it was confirmed that Almalexia had mantled Boethia. They didn't label this as a theory, and got defensive when people asked them to present evidence. It's also worth noting that the idea they presented flew in the face of how most people believe mantling works.

To many it seems, after c0da, the primary factor behind the truth of an idea is how cool it sounds to them. Which is really bad, because most people have terrible fucking taste.

>>55189838
Place names stick around for a long time, even if the language doesn't.
Just think of how many place names on the British Isles are derived from dead languages like Norse (Hilderthorpe, Grimsby, Nocton) or Brittonic.
http://www.britishmuseum.org/whats_on/exhibitions/vikings/vikings_live/old_norse_origins.aspx#balby

>>55186654
Has Shonni-etta been released or are you talking about the fragments?

>>55189797
You raise a fair point, I'm just trying to make sense of it all by discovering some kind of naming convention like what is the Nibenese word for town for example. Like how the "grad" is Skingrad is the old Russian word for town.

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He did nothing wrong.

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>when you make a deal with vile but screw him over at the last second

>>55190295
He didn't do anything since he's not canon.

>>55190318
Things don't just stop being canon because you dislike them Anon.

>>55190307
Sorry, but your fantasy isn't canon, therefore you can't feel anything about it.

>>55190356
This post isn't canon and it's existence is triggering me. Pls delet.

>>55190356
T. Barbas

Vile was made for bullying

>>55190371
Triggers aren't canon either, so sorry I can't delet anything.

>>55190406
You aren't canon, stop saying "I".

>>55190429
"I" isn't canon either, it's actually just all "O"s. If you think otherwise you're a mk's cock garbling redditor and I'm gonna tell my mommy on you.

Reminder to report and ignore KIDF false flags.

>>55190454
That's exactly what a redditor would say.

>>55190467
Silly anon, false flags aren't canon and therefore don't exist.
Can't report that which does not exist, that would be madness.

>>55190487
Reddit isn't canon in bethesda's official lore, so they aren't saying anything actually.

>>55190491
>hold my opinion back
You're an example to live by, Anon.

>>55190491
>Stage 1 of the Oblivion crisis in Argonia

>>55190491
That seems mean to do to that turtle.

>>55190962
It'll be fine.

>>55190491
do turtles not like twizzlers?

>>55190962
Trainwiz, you're part of Todd, is c0da canon?

>>55190491
Turn it around then, my man.

What's up with your TES experience lately?

>>55191037
Do people like twizzlers?

bizarre. I figured they were candy meant to teach children not to eat candy.

>>55191037
It's a pepper.

>>55191039
Yes.
You have to remember that the Bethesda and ZOS guys are still friends with Kirkbride and like his ideas, so they're fans.

>>55191065
thinkgen about High Rock
why did Woodborne do the do to Lysandus?

>>55191078
Not entirely familiar with the two of them.

Fill me in.

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>>55191078
A semi-convoluted plot to become King of Wayrest.
I can explain in more detail if you want.

>>55191118
Lord Woodborne was a outrageously ambitious Wayrest noble.

King Lysandus was King of Daggerfall.

The former got the latter killed.

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>>55191161
tell me more, I beg of you
thanks for the woodborne

>>55191075
So you weren't trolling when you said they're letting you make c0da canon?

>>55191250
They greenlit a lot of weird lore stuff of mine. But it's not like they said 'yeah sure' to everything. It's kind of funny. Some weird esoteric things were a-okay but then stuff you'd think would fit they put a no stamp on.
But generally, new lore coming. Bethesda's even taken a hand and helped write some aspects of it.

>>55191039
No. I asked, and while they like kirkbride, they didn't think it was either polished enough or relevant enough to make canon. They're open to exploring the idea in future games though

>>55191161
Well...

>>55191166
Anon here has the right idea. Tell me more, please. Breton stuff is always cool to here, just don't like how their lore sorta got fucked.

>>55191282
Just wondering, what in your mind has always been the biggest issue with Bethesda following or not so much the weirder aspects of the setting? I always figured Cyrodiil went from jungle to grasslands because it's easier to make the former with the graphics of the time, but I admit I don't know much about texturing and the like.

Got a moment to spare?

>>55191543
Why are you pretending to be trainwiz?

>>55191558
Why are you pretending that I'm not trainwiz?

>>55191558
Because he's assmad mk fucked his wife without letting him prep him first, so he's on an anticoda spree.

>>55191556
*cool to hear

And I'm not even drunk yet!

>>55191558
Eh, I don't mind if they are or aren't. It's always nice to hear people's take on things.

>>55191556
>with Bethesda following or not so much the weirder aspects of the setting?

I think at times they wanted stuff to feel more believable, even when it doesn't have to. At the same time, the reason they seem to do this is so that the weird aspects feel that much weirder.

>>55180153
>has no argument

>>55180363
>runs out of arguments, which were all hollow anyway, and resorts to name-calling

1. Most of which is now either irrelevant or trivial
2. Cyrodiil is temperate. See Oblivion.
2a. "B-b-b-but it USED to be true!!!!! ;_;" .... and like I said, is now irrelevant non-lore.
2b. Games trump writing. The games are the true Tamriel. It's sad that you have to deny this, but it's true. Also: Cyrodiil Once-Jungled. ONCE-Jungled. As in, not any more, and thus irrelevant.

Neither of you can defend your opinions beyond a whole lot of superficial arm-flapping. Stay mad, MKfags, but do it over at r/teslore. Your stink only pollutes these threads and you are not wanted here.

Hey guys sorry I'm late to the thread I was doing stuff.

>The games are the true Tamriel.
Ah, so Skyrim is the size of Manhattan?

>>55191599
>has no argument
When your only argument is "canon", which bethesda themselves has purposefully avoided using and gave no official claim of canonicity about coda, then you in fact have no argument either.

>>55191591
Nothin' in the old PGE sounds too far out except for maybe some of stuff about Alinor, though that might be my own standards. Looking at the sales there is a large jump between Morrowind to Oblivion so do you think there was any concern about the amount of people the game would need to appeal to who might not be familiar with the old stuff?

>>55191619
I'm honestly super down for The Thread of the Many Trainwizs

>>55191556
>Just wondering, what in your mind has always been the biggest issue with Bethesda following or not so much the weirder aspects of the setting? I always figured Cyrodiil went from jungle to grasslands because it's easier to make the former with the graphics of the time, but I admit I don't know much about texturing and the like.

I wasn't with Bethesda when they made that decision, so bare in mind this is just conjecture. But the 360, and most PCs of that day, would not have handled a jungle well. They had, and have software to make trees fast, and textures wouldn't be an issue. But actually rendering all the trees in a jungle, in a convincing way would kill the xbox. A good jungle is still hard to render on today's technology.

They could have done with fog what they did in Morrowind: limited view distance to increase framerates. But the fog was a popular criticism of morrowind, so I don't think they wanted to go that route.

The biggest issue has been how much of the weird stuff to include? This is something I'm learning now that I'm not just a modder adding onto a game. How much of the base game do you want tied to the metaphysical? How many metaphors for vivec's junk do you want included as landmarks in the game? How many quests should evolve into dark conspiracies with implications for the fundamental nature of life, the universe, and everything? I used to look down on Skyrim and Oblivion for not living up to Morrowind in this respect. But after listening to some of the other staff, I've realized not every game can be morrowind levels of metaphysics, if you want the morrowindesque moments of the series to be appreciated.

>>55191688
Why are you still pretending to be trainwiz

>>55191703
Why are you still pretending that I'm not?

>>55191703
Why aren't you?

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>>55191675
The sales jump was more because of the general jump in game sales in the first place. Oblivion had the same appeal as Morrowind with the "go anywhere, do anything, break into people's houses naked and leave melons in their beds!" aspect, but there was a larger audience playing games at that point.

>>55191688
>The biggest issue has been how much of the weird stuff to include?
Now, I'm no modder nor developer, but I don't think the plebs (like me) are looking specifically for the metaphysics. What I miss about Morrowind was the exotic culture and the feel of being in a strange new land. It was just so different to anything you could see irl, and I tihnk that's a big part of the appeal. No need for super metaphysical deep spiritual stuff as long as you nail the 'foreign' bit

>>55191709
If you're so real, tell me about Nanosteam.

>>55191736
And Skyrim was the perfect storm of even more widespread social media, more people playing games, and Oblivion's success.

>>55191282
I know you probably have an NDA, but could you tell about some of the stuff they rejected? Genuinely interested what Beth considers too weird.

>>55191688
Thanks for the response on the jungle factor. Oblivion to me feels like it's that weird period where they caught graphics tech when it was advancing to the point where they could do new things, but not very well. Imperial City can be more textured than what came before it, but it isn't as big.

>>55191749
I am with this guy, though. The greatest loss in TES to me was an alien feel in the world or just a general sense of wonder. I have very fond memories of Oblivion, but it will never live up to how someone who played Morrowind and Oblivion and sorta just...imagined they were same thing described it to me(I'm also not making that up, he never realized they were two separate games).

>>55191794
Cosmic Railroads

>>55191794
I can't, even rejected stuff would be under NDA. But it wasn't actually too weird, compared to the other stuff. It'd be like saying "I want to make a thing with a race of daedra made entirely out of penises, and also flying carpets", and they'd go "alright we'll deliver the dick models to you on the fourth, but you'll have to axe the flying carpets".

>>55191817
The jungle factor was less a technology thing (you could handle jungles on the 360 to some extent and they'd look fine), the reason Cyrodiil became High Rock is because they wanted to basically remake Daggerfall, and said as much. They envisioned it as a long trek through medieval landscapes and dungeon crawls in fortresses.

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>>55191849
Why didn''t they just remake Daggerfall
Reeeeee

>>55191888
You have Daggerfall tools for Unity for that.

>>55191849
Is Bethesda ever going to make something alien like Morrowind?

>>55191888
The other me is lying. Or not. Depends on your c0da.

>>55191849
I won't deny it's really comfy landscape. Soule's work on the soundtrack helps a lot. But for the sake of speculation because I like that shit, how would you(the thread) remake Oblivion/Cyrodiil?

Personally, I'd go with the jungle thing, but really make the environment change as you go along, like go from straight up East Asian tropics to Mediterranean and dense overgrown forests. If you're an MK fan, throw in Tiber Septim/Talos using CHIM to change the landscape but have it still be trying to revert back to what it once was, temperate forest/grasslands where you can see the old jungle trying to recreate itself. Something like Edge Chronicles' Deepwoods.

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>>55191906
Dunno, maybe. They're not against it in any way, but who can say what goes on in Todd's brains?

>>55191888
>>55191903
>>55191906
>>55191911
I honestly don't mind being the loremie at the Trainwiz gangbang. Makes the thread more fun.

>>55191820
Can you share with us any lore aspects, at all?

>>55191906
Unlikely. The problem with making something unique and alien is that you have to make something unique and alien. Every time. What I've noticed is that we're reusing a lot of assets from Oblivion in Skyrim, cleaned up and modified a bit, but not remade entirely. That process saves a lot of time and money when you're starting a new game.

An oblivion tree can be used in any standard fantasy game setting. A morrowind mushroom tree can only really fit in morrowind, or a new setting we make.

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>>55191994
I can't, sorry. That'd all be under NDA. I can tell you the first stuff is coming out later in the year, but that's about it and is fairly obvious in the first place.

>>55192025
And you, stop that.

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>>55192052
You first.

>>55192113
If you're the real trainwiz, tell us about Nanosteam.

>>55192123
It's easily googleable. The better challenge is for you to explain why you assume any trainwiz posting information you disagree with is fake.

Seems like confirmation bias to me, the real trainwiz.

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>>55192025
Does that limit the amount of areas of Tamriel we're going to see? I wouldn't expect too many Oblivion trees in Hammerfell.

>>55192052
>>55192113
Pic related is how we solve it. Whoever is above me is not Trainwiz.

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>>55192123
It's being worked on, but I needed an intermediary game to fund it so we're making a Freelanceresque game in the meantime.

>>55192144
>can't answer a question
>doesn't realize the real trainwiz would never miss an opportunity to talk about his game
Randy Bobandy, fuck off.

>>55192144
>>55192218
LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE OUTTA' HERE, RANDY.

(But please keep contributing, some good stuff has come from the Trainwizzes today)

>>55192177
You'd be surprised how many assets in oblivion could be cleaned up, modified slightly, and stuffed in a desert.

No area is off limits, except morrowind.

>>55192238
>still pretending after being outed

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>>55192238
Not even Morrowind is technically off-limits, Bethesda just wouldn't want to treat ground that's been experienced since Morrowind's time, but they're still willing to indulge it, hence Dragonborn.

>>55192238
So it's Hammerfell or Elsweyr. Well, much better than Skyrim 2.

>>55192238
Huh, woulda' thought that would have been more work to try and make a desert environment.

>>55192264
Does Bethesda get access to ESO assets? Probably makes their job a lot easier if so.

Be back in a bit, going to go grab some drinks.

>>55192052
What about the stuff they didn't accept, can you tell us that?

>>55191921
>how would you(the thread) remake Oblivion/Cyrodiil?
It'd be a lot larger than the Oblivion map, but cover a smaller area than Oblivion, not following the delta all the way to its mouth in the bay, about as far down as Bravil, with some reason like "There's elves in them woods, traveller. Can't let ya pass." or something similar. The south parts would be littered with farms and especially estates, clearly Nibbenese through its use of (limited) Akaviri elements in architecture and armor. Around the imperial city, there's a good mix, the simpler 'Imperial' style with full on Imperial legionnaires rather than duchy guards or something. The landscape shifts and the jungle gives away to more impressive Cedar trees, and end in large, rolling foothills littered with oak trees the further northwest you get, even with some pines in the mountains downhill from Bruma.

Oh and by the way, Falkreath is an Imperial Province now because fuck you. Background lore would be something about the Empire succumbing to inner strife, with the very clearly implied idea that it's going to become re-united under a strong ruler, and make history yet again.

>>55192144
Fuck off Randy Bobandy

>>55192264
Why doesn't ESO Clockwork City seem to have ultra advanced cyberpunk aesthetic of the original. Did they chicken out?

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>>55192295
>access
It's not like Shcick is guarding a safe with the ESO models, but they really wouldn't use them in the first place. ESO models are ESO models.

>>55192314
No, pretty sure that'd still violate NDAs, and would also most likely indicate what's being made anyway.

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>>55192335
It's hundreds of years before that, it has some parts like that, but it's only just now being converted. Clockwork City actually uses a massive amount of its own original assets in the first place too, so its not like they're just reusing all dwemer assets.

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>>55191166
>>55191556
Woodborne is pretty much the crowning example of how vicious Breton politics get. He's one ambitious motherfucker.

So, around 3E 403, Wayrest was officially a neutral party in the War of Betony, which was raging between Daggerfall and Sentinel. The reasons for these are manifold, but the thing that's really relevant to Woodborne's story is that the Kingdom was facing a crisis of succession. The other major issue was the Orcish problem, though that's less important.
Though King Eadwyre (now in his 60s), was co-ruling with his second wife Queen Barenziah, the Kingdom was supposed to change hands upon his death. There were two candidates for the throne:
The first was Eadwyre's daughter Elysana, whose mother was the deceased Queen Carolyna, Eadwyre's first wife. Elysana was rumoured to be sweet-tempered, but her intelligence and political cunning was widely questioned.
The other candidate was Barenziah's son Helseth, whose father was Symmachus. Where Elysana was viewed (wrongly) as sweet but incapable, Helseth was widely known to be very intelligent, but rash and dangerous. Strictly speaking Helseth's sister Morgiah could also inherit, but she was not considered a real candidate.
Helseth was also a Dunmer, which made him even less popular.

>>55192264
Sure, and it was the best. They did make a few architectural assets for it, but nothing on the level of the original morrowind.

>>55192295
>Does Bethesda get access to ESO assets?
Yes we do, and they ours. We don't really use them, because they aren't applicable to the games in active development and there isn't any extensive overlap between the teams to make sharing assets easy.

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>>55192373
Woodborne has at this point already firmly established himself in Wayrest. Although he's described as a minor lord, he's a Knight of the Rose, and has worked himself up to a position of commander in the Wayrest military. And most importantly, he's become betrothed to Princess Elysana.
For Woodborne, the plan is simple. Marry Elysana, support her in the struggle against Helseth, and become King once she takes the throne. With her supposedly docile and incapable nature, he'd be the real ruler of Wayrest.
So he starts gathering allies.

First he makes an agreement with Gortwog, King of Orsinium, of mutual support. The details on their whole relationship is unclear as we have conflicting sources.

While all of this is going on, Daggerfall is winning the war against Sentinel, but King Lysandus of Daggerfall is growing tired of ruling, especially as disagreements over the war is tearing his family apart. So, he makes an agreement with his son to fake his own death, and live in secrecy with his mistress Medora Direnni on Balfiera. Prince Gothryd, Lysandus son, agrees to this, and enlists the help of Woodborne in finding a look-alike of Lysandus. And Woodborne knows just the man, and impoverished Wayrest nobleman.
The nobleman is told to play Lysandus in the Battle of Cryngaine Field, and fake death so that Gothryd can be crowned king on the battlefield. For good measure, Gothryd just kills him. The impostor is buried in his armour.

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The main fucking point of TES's metaphysics is that the world in non-deterministic. In our wold events happen and they are what they are even if you don't know it. Not so in the Aurbis. Everything is relative and seen through cultural and mythological lenses. It's all abstract, all lines are fuzzy.

>>55192361
Hmm, this is very interesting lore wise. I always thought ultra tech was from Dawn of Mundus rather than Sotha Sil inventing it.

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>>55192416
Meanwhile, the real Lysandus is being transported away by Woodborne and his Wayrest troops (oh, and Gortwog's Orcs are there too), the plan being to send him on a ship to Balfiera. Now, what Woodborne was hoping to get out of all of this was that in return for his help in the plot, Daggerfall would have his back if Wayrest went into civil war, securing him and Elysana the throne. He had tried to enlist Lysandus' support before, but been rejected. As he's talking with the king-in-exile, Lysandus makes it clear for Woodborne that he will still be in contact with Gothryd, and will not support Woodborne's plot to take power in Wayrest.

The details of how are a bit unclear, but what happens next is that Woodborne has Lysandus killed, and his body stored in a dungeon. This is essentially so that he can blackmail Gothryd should he need to, by producing the corpse and revealing how Gothryd became king. Either Gortwog and his Orcs killed Lysandus on Woodborne's orders, or Woodborne's Wayrest troops did it while Gortwog tried to stop them. Conflicting sources, but I believe the latter is more likely, as Woodborne states in his diary that Gortwog almost stopped him.

This treatment of Lysandus caused a number of ill effect, most importantly that Lysandus' tormented soul started haunting Daggerfall City, causing the Emperor to send the Imperial Agent to lay his soul to rest. The Imperial Agent will layer slay Woodborne in order to accomplish this.

>>55192434
The Wheels of Lull are big gears and metaphysics, but Sotha Sil was always improving that shit and advancing his technology.
He wouldn't be Sotha Sil otherwise.

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>>55192481
In addition, in some time before 3E 417 Woodborne even manages to get his hands on the Totem of Tiber Septim, with the apparent goal of taking command of the Numidium himself. However, his ownership is discovered by The Blades, who sack Woodborne Hall in a costly assault. However, the Totem was not there, as it had already been stolen by Gothryd.
Another incident in the conga-line of Breton nobles fucking up for other Breton nobles because that's what they're all about.
Though Gothryd had reason to be upset.

And that's all I can remember, I don't think I missed anything.

>>55192431
I don't see how that image ends the debate. Canonfags understand all that. They don't care. People are interested in the official setting, not people's ripoffs of the official setting. To put it in terms you'd understand: "Ain't nobody got time for your c0da".

See >>55189813

Also, you're misusing the term "deterministic". Determinism is a philosophy that says if you know the initial conditions of a system, and the rules of that system, you can predict the system at any point in time Determinism takes this idea and applies it to the universe: There is no choice, or free will, because everything is determined by the initial conditions of our universe, and the rules of the universe.

>>55192559
This is a thread about making up stories in the TES universe for tabletop games. It is by definition "headcanons". Even the games are just someones headcanon, albeit one that is funded by Bethesda.

>>55192516
>>55192481
>>55192416
>>55192373
Thanks for explaining. Breton stuff is all pretty cool and I like how they're the most feudal people still even after Oblivion. But not in a GoT "We're all backstabby!" sort of way, just in a "lords and ladies and all that comes with it" sort of way.

>>55192336
>safe

I dunno' how asset copyright or ownership works out. But thanks for the explanation.

>>55192315
Sounds nice, though I do like the coastal areas in any game so I can't get totally on board with that. I also said earlier in the thread I just don't like the Imperial Legion being totally copy-paste Romans, even the old concept art really doesn't do it for me. But it sounds pretty dank as is, making clear differences in the area would be nice.

Do you just have a think for Falkreath or uhhhh?

>>55192990
*a thing for Falkreath

And this is where drinking doesn't help me.

>>55192990
>Do you just have a think for Falkreath or uhhhh?
Yes

>>55190508
https://www.imperial-library.info/content/interviews-3-writers

Tell that to S'Reddit, Ted Peterson's character

>>55193295
Lay it on me, man.

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>>55193364
>interviews with 3 writers
fuck these things, first time I read one I found out my waifu is Lawrence Shick's character and now I can't get it out of my head.

>>55193451
Who is your waifu

>>55193377
Okay so I love pine trees, and I love falkreath, just in Skyrim. It's one of the best holds in the game mostly due to how big it is, it's the only province where you can run about and actually feel good doing so without any difficult terrain or just plain boring shit like tundra. It's also a good way to tie back to older games, in this case Skyrim. Put a player that played Skyrim there and he'll be able to note both what's new and what's old in the stylistic theme of the game.

And it fits quite well with the chain of mountains with the canyons and winding passes all opening up to this fertile river valley surrounded on all sides by mountains. It also gives a nice contrast to Bruma, the so-called nord city. Would be kinda funny if Bruma were seen as the more Nord part, if only because it's up in the mountains and frozen over a lot more than Falkreath hold is.

>>55191556
>their lore sorta got fucked
what?

>>55193466
That's...actually some pretty good reasoning. I never really figured why I liked going towards Falkreath before going to uhhhh...Riverwood on repeat playthroughs.

Solid idea man, I can buy into that.

>>55193539
On my phone, but I always felt like the Bretons excessive feudalism suffered from the rest of Tamriel becoming more standard Western European fantasy. It's hard to stand out as feudal lords and ladies when everyone else is jumping on that train.

>>55193563
Thanks

>>55193539
>Crossbreeds between Altmer and Nords, the two tallest races on Tamriel
>are a bunch of manlets
That's probably the most major fuck up in Breton lore.

>>55194285
Welcome, any other part of the games that you really like?

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>>55190491
that poor turtle

>>55191921
>how would you(the thread) remake Oblivion/Cyrodiil
what would be my geographical inspirations

>trans niben
Indochina

>niben river valley
Ganges-Brahmaputra river network

>niben basin cheydin up to heartlands
east and south-central china districts/chang jiang basin

>northern nibenay
Sichuan up to Tibetan plateau and/or manchurian plain

>jeralls
Himalayan range

>valus mountains
pamirs

>bruma sancre tor region
patagonia

>'great forest'
straight up amazon

>colovian highlands/imperial reserve
Appalachians

>west weald
Yungas

>kvatch region
Anatolia

>strident coast
Iberian peninsula

>>55194471
Bretons are actually descended from a pre-nordic nedic people who lived in high rock (probably closely related to bjoulsae and/or reach tribes).
We can only assume they were ultra-manlets.

>>55194794
The Nedes were the real dwarves.
Deepest lore.

The other week I dreamt I was on the Northernmost coast of our world and saw Adamantine in the Dawn. It was horrifying.

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>>55194698
Damn, these are some good concepts. I like the idea of a contrast between Nibenay and Colovia in geography as well. The fictional land of the Colovians give me Pueblo Indian vibe.

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>canon debate again
Let me spell it out for you s'wits.
1. Bethesda are the ones who determine what's canon and what is not.
2. It doesn't fucking matter anyway because they can't write good lore for shit anymore.
3. Same goes for ESO - whether it's canon or not is actually completely irrelevant, as it's shit anyway no matter how much certain railroad enthusiasts would like you to think otherwise.

So be good n'wahs, pick a point in TES history, accept everything before it and dismiss everything after it. Add MK writefaggotry to taste. Serve lukewarm.

>>55196016
>1. Bethesda are the ones who determine what's canon and what is not.
And they haven't decided either way, so who cares.

>>55196016
Anything I don't like isn't canon.

>>55195162
Shit, I could totally see the kvatch region taking after the american southwest

https://youtu.be/CUpURFO35aU
is this canon?

>>55192958
This is a thread about discussing the lore of the TES games.

>>55194698
Fucking solid my main, been drinking tonight so my logic is all fucking up in the CHIM brain, but I'm here all the same.

I can't agree with you on the sheer jungle-y ness of a it all. I do like some variety. As much as Morrowind is fun to navigate the various factions, the monochromatic nature of a lot of it gets tiring.

>>55194839
WHAAAAAAAAAAAAT.

Ain't true, but that sounds fucking funny.

>>55195162
Pueblo/Georgian mountainside towns are always rad.

>>55196933
Basically that's how I use it, I like these threads because TES has a solid universe and it's fun to use for inspiration or games.

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>>55197340
I imagine this is what Colovian architecture in the Highlands would look like. .

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>>55197340
and what it would look like in the wet dry lands.

>>55177277
>guar
it's like "cow"

>>55177277
Calling someone barenziah is implying they are a slut I assume. I doubt dark elves would use it as an insult though, since they're all sluts.

Also, I think scrib is a better insult than guar.

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>>55197953