>stronger than paladins >more useful than paladins >more

>>55148274
I will take Jerusalem, Infidel.

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>>55148274
I bet you don't even CARE about the holy land. Heretic.

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Funny way of asking for paladin pics. But I'll share

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>>55148274
>Stronger than paladins
Hardly, Lay on hands are far more useful and they have the same channel energy. Clerics can barely hit anything compared to a paladin
>More useful than a paladin
No, paladins are far more useful in combat and social interactions. Clerics hide behind wizards even in fullplate armor and they are asshats in social interactions, always forcing their religion unto others when they barely know their own religion.
>More adaptable than paladins
Paladins are full bab and have spellcasting, as well as those fucking balling saves. Clerics may have more wiggle room for alignment but that just shows how not devoted to their religion they are.
>just all around better than paladins
paladins destroy their enemies and bask in hot babes, priests heal like shit and can't fuck no shit.
Your move loliclericfag.

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>>55148274
>I didn't ask to get possessed by a warrior-angel, that was an accident. I just made the most of it.

>>55148274
Clerics can't even punch people twice in a round or break the saving throw math, though.

>>55148274
Honestly they should just be the same class, with smite and lay on hands being features you can buy into.

>>55148736
You would be a terribad game designer anon.

>>55148883
Why do you say that?

>>55148948
They're two very distinct classes, trying to fold them together is just silly.

I would buff pally though, clerics being holy wizards gives them too much to work with.

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Paladins have CHIVALRY!

>>55148974
I agree that they are distinct in theory, but especially in older editions they play a lot of the same roles. I dont see why it would be harmful to just have one class called Zealot or some shit and have a smattering of features you buy into at various levels.

I dont see it as "silly" to try to streamline the mess that is DnD.

>>55148988
>chivalry
>for some furshit abomination

Sir knight you will eradicate that heretical thing or be excommunicated

>>55149064
I think aliens are allowed to convert to Christianity, so I don't see why fantasy monsters wouldn't be allowed to.

>>55148274
>You're not some deus vultfag
Ironically, clerics used to be described as members of crusading orders. Paladins were true knights of the Lancelot/Galahad/Holger/Roland type, who were pious but not particularly churchly types. During 2e, the Cleric's concept got blanched out of them to the point that 3e turned the Cleric into some sort of religious wizard and gave their concept to the Paladin.

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>>55148274
Because I care about more than just sucking my God's dick.

I care about what's right.

>>55148274
You can deus vult while a cleric
There's literally no reason to ever be a paladin ever

>>55150103
It is more the " warriors of faith" vs "warriors of the church" discussion.

Most paladins dont worship a specific God, or at least don't have to. They instead embody all that is good and right, and will arrive for perfection and purity. They are the symbol of the church, of what a truly righteous individual would be.

A cleric commune directly with their god. They follow and believe wholeheartedly in their God, but are not expected to be perfect, but merely follow the wishes of their God to the best of their ability, and spread the word of their God to the common man. It is why some settings have clerics who pretty much just jump from one God to another, and changes their view point every time they do - think of them like Public Relations managers.

Paladins wont change no matter who they represent, because they represent an ideal, not a specific God. 5e compounded on this by letting them be the embodiment of life of laughter as well as the standard Lawful Good guy. In the end, they are more extreme than clerics, because their mission is to inspire, unlike the clerics.

>>55148274
>Why even play a paladin when lolis exist? You're not some deus vultfag, are you?
ftfy

>>55150135
>What's 'right' and what your God desires not being the EXACT SAME FUCKING THING in the eyes of anyone that worships and believes enough to receive fucking miracles in return.

Are you some kind of retard?

>>55148736
No, Clerics should be recast as priests, priests should get medium armor max, and only martials should have access to heavy armor

>>55148274
>everyone else see's a loli
>I see a halfling with a portable shrine

Shits kawaii (and legal) as fuck

>>55148477
>Clerics may have more wiggle room for alignment but that just shows how not devoted to their religion they are.
How that?

Honestly, I like the 5e paladins quite a bit. Mechanically and lore wise distinct from clerics, strong, and focused on upholding a code with actually well defined tenants.

>>55150857

A cleric can worship a not so nice god

>>55148274
Paladins and clerics are pretty much the same, anyways.

>>55150887
Why does that make him not so devoted?

Why would Clerics get access to Divine Power (the spell) if not so they can obsolete Paladins?

Paladins have better defense and better single target offense. Paladins are best when deleting a single demon/undead/etc. and do it better than literally everyone else.

>>55148274
I want to pat that cleric.

>>55148274
In 5e I don't see why Paladin is a core class when

>Clerics have very similar spell lists, but simply much better
>fighters are better at the martial side of things
>thematically it's not too different from a cleric

They have unique stuff, sure, like lay on hands, auras and such, but to be frank the same character design could be achieved via a subclass to either cleric or fighter.

To me, Cleric shouldn't be a heavily armoured warrior that also casts spells, it should be a robed spellcaster class. But that's the way it has been since forever and it's kinda late to change it now.

Personally I would do

>Paladin is current cleric build but with lay on hands and some of the oath options, lose channel divinity
>cleric is a dedicated spellcaster, give them a d6 hit die, channel divinity, expanded spell casting and an extra cantrip.

But that's just what I would prefer, current system is somewhat zany to me and always has been.

>>55148495
I fucking love Romeo.

>>55151274
I was literally about to post this

>>55148736
Roll it into one class like the 5e fighter, divided between 'priest' and 'templar.'

>>55150826
She can be a loli and like, 30 or something senpai.

>>55150826
>I see a halfling with a portable shrine
>shoes
>on hairless feet
I think you're seeing things, comrade.

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>>55148274

NO SLEEP TIL WE HIT JERUSALEM

>>55152955
Thats the most adorable thing i've seen in a while.

That said, jeanne is french, not english.

>>55152910
She shaves her feet, dude.

>>55152955
DEUS VULT

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>>55152955
>Dancing English knight
[Removes foreigners in French]

>>55153008
>she shaves her feet, dude.
Then she's not a halfling. She's been excommunicated from the species.

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>Stronger than paladins
Depends on your STR
>More useful
Purely situational
>Adaptable
Paladins can carry maces too, faggot
>all around better
I don't want to be a minmaxing munchkin faggot like you.

>>55148274
I want to find something in life worth taking the fall for.

>Not having a Cleric and a Paladin both in your party from different deities, being at odds with each other at first but warming up to each other by talking about religious stuff and sharing their god's culture

Do any of you EVEN party dynamic?

>>55148274
>Not playing a cleric and multi-classing into paladin

It's like you don't want to service your god in every way possible.

>>55152910
>>55153053

It's clearly an illusionary halfling.

>>55152684
Because THE thing one thinks of when thinking of D&D is the Lawful Good Paladin. Every edition of D&D will have alignment (including 'Lawful Good' at least) and Paladins at the very least.

>>55148477
>DEUS VULT JERUSALEM DEUS VULT DEUS VULT JERUSALEM
This is how you sound. Why are paladinfags so obnoxious?

>>55150787
I bet you blindly follow his teachings, and fail all the tests of integrity too, huh?

>>55153299
like most fake fans, it's all about the aesthetic to them, not the meaning.

>>55148274
>Deus Vult
>God wills it
Yes, that's the only good reason to be a paladin. Was this ever in question?

>>55148274
No meming about who's stronger but yeah, what really is the difference other than that paladins can go full fedora if they wish?

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>>55152955
H-HAYAI

>>55151027
Because morality is based on once action or inaction that means if kargoth demands sacrifice and you dont wanna, then you're a shit poor preist of kargoth.

>>55153055
Minmaxing=credit to team

>>55148274
In 5e, it comes down to "do you want to turn enemies into chunky salsa whenever you crit, or do you not want that."

>>55154446
In terms of sheer mechanics, sure. But it doesn't make you any less of a faggot IRL.

Name one thing a pally does better than cleric-kun

In my games I just give Paladins better access to roleplaying perks.

>Free horse or squire at level one.
>Can stay at the church instead of an inn for free.
>Can call in small favors from the Church, like free provisions, a loan of gold, or access to information.
>Respected and trusted by commoners and nobles know better to get on the Church's bad side.

Small stuff that adds up over time like that. Generally the explanation I give to differentiate Clerics and Paladins is that while anyone can be a holyman or pray to their god for blessings, not everyone is apart of the bureaucratic juggernaut that is the state sponsored Church.

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>>55148284
>>55148313
>>55148363
>>55148391
Zealous human fighters with Full Plate proficiency.

>>55150135
Actual paladin. Stay chivalric son.

>A wild Cleric vs Paladin thread appears
>Chivalryposting ensues
>Suddenly remember that story about the Cleric that married a Kobold princess
>Can't find it in the archive
Well, now I'm gonna have to spend all day looking for it.

>>55155320
In a 5e Campaign run by a friend of mine, i've given away a large portion of the loot i've gained to churches (most of it pocket change to start with), gone around healing people, and generally just being an altruistic fuck.

Honestly speaking, its actually really interesting to play. To begin with, i got attacked by bandits and they left their horse after i scared them off, so i kept the horse with me until i saw them again, intending fully to give it back.

Then my party killed them outright, and i had no one to give the horse to so i just kept it.

My character is poor as fuck compared to everyone else, both in money and assets, but at the same time its been fun to play something so altruistic for once.

>>55155428
You, I like you.

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>>55148274

>>55152684
I think 5e's class structure was a wasted opportunity to go back down the path of 2e's style of classes, in which there are 4 "main" classes that are very easy to break into, but if you roll a little higher on your stats, there are "sub" classes that are basically the super class but better. Ranger and Paladin were subtypes of the fighter class, for instance.

I think instead of giving the Fighter the Champion/Battle Master/Eldritch Knight subtypes, I think it would have been more beneficial to give Fighter the Paladin and Ranger subtypes and drop Ranger/Paladin altogether. You can also wrap up Monk and pure Fighter into there. You guarantee that all the classes will fit into an important archetype while simultaneously giving players the important distinction and flavor they need with fewer "dead classes", like the Vengence Paladin or the Knowledge Cleric.

>>55156161
>The paladin archetype that has the most interesting fluff, and deals some of the best damage in the game
>"Dead"

>>55156205
>literally just Frank Castle
>most interesting fluff

>>55156205
If the reason you like the archetype is purely because of fluff, there's no reason not to roll a fighter, go down the paladin archetype, and as the anon below you says, just play him as the Punisher.

>>55153486
What if you just make the sacrifice, like a good priest of Kargoth? Or serve a god who doesn't require sacrifices? Or just, you know, do what your god demands even if it's unpleasant? How does any of these options make clerics 'not so devoted'?

>>55148274
Play 4e.

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>>55148274
Clerics (male) can't be this cute.

>>55156282
They both have great fluff, and great mechanics.
I don't think you understand what double crit chance is worth on a paladin.

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>>55148274
>Clerics
>The priesthood dedicated to a certain deity
>More or less divine magic centered wizards, in that they aren't as good at taking blows but can cast quite a few spells
>Though clerics are certainly capable of inflicting harm, they're more focused on buffing, debuffing and battlefield control

>Paladin
>The chosen champions of a certain deity
>Very minor healing, mostly deal with smiting evil and cracking skulls

>In a Christian-inspired setting, clerics ARE Christian wizards. Wizardry is heathenous (but not as heathenous as believing in magic, go figure) so Christian clerics are effectively minor saints that cast 'miracles' rather than spells.

Y/N?

>>55156628
No I do, but I'm not saying that should just disappear outright. I'm saying instead of making 13 different classes that each have separate subclasses that, if worked out right, only capture a different flavor of the main class, it would be better to have 4 different classes, and all other classes subtypes thereof.

>>55148274
Maybe, just maybe because paladins were added later and were utterly pointless

>>55148988
So THAT'S the source

>>55157146
That's wrong though.

Added later is correct, but then so was almost everything the current game. Pointless is 100% incorrect, as they have the point of allowing players to play a paladin.

>>55150868
Okay can I just ask a question?

Why the FUCK is it so GODDAMNED common to write "tenant" when one means "tenet"? It's one of the last things I'd expect to be a common spelling error, but I can count on one hand how many times I've read "tenet", whereas "tenant" is used all the goddamned time.

It's fucking baffling

>>55153299
>call him a fag that'll undermine his argument
Someone didn't stat Int

When was the last time someone played a female paladin at your table?
I get the impression that girls in general don't like this class.

>>55156515
Why is this girl a guy?

>>55160615
Japan

>>55156429
By hesitating in the first place because of your moral code or anything that questions the rules and demands of the faith. These will also prove your lack of devotion. Think abraham sacrificing isaac as unwavering devotion.

>>55160583
>females
>altruistic
Pick one and only one.

That said, without the issue of a Lawful Good alignment being necessary, they're a lot more keen to play a pally.

>>55160731
>>>/r9k/

And remember, it's your own fault they don't like you.

>>55161200
Nice job proving me wrong.
You asked a question and got an answer, don't get mad because you don't like it.
Besides, I'm a raging faggot.

>>55160615
>>55160678
It's actually because Astolfo is notorious for being able to easily pass as a young woman in the mythology associated with him. He's the paladin that always ends up in frilly dresses with other knights mistaking him for a girl and instantly falling in love with him.

At one point, he even convinces Roland to dress up as a woman with him so they can grope unsuspecting chicks.

Basically it's a joke regarding his tendencies.

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>>55152955
>Jeanne
>english

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>>55161311
...making it one of the few Nasu history edits that make any sense. Nasu-Leonardo da Vinci just barely makes it into that list

>>55159724
It's probably BECAUSE "tenet" is used so infrequently. It's the same problem that "cannon"/"canon" have. Everybody knows how to spell "cannon" because it's a more common word.

>>55161447
HOW does that one make any sense whatsoever?

>>55161476
Because no one remembers leonardo himself, but his greatest work the mona lisa, a visual medium.

Its loose, but not the weirdest thing.

>>55161447
It's not even really a history.mythology edit, more of an exaggeration.

Astolpho was legitimately a girly dude.

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>>55161476
>>55161495
It's loosely based on the belief that the Mona Lisa is a self portrait
>>55161496
Fair enough

>>55148274
I thought of playing a Cleric, but for the campaign that I'm in they end up getting heals at level 20, so fuck that shit.

>>55161224

> he doesn't play a surly dwarven female paladin at the table himself

Fag

>>55161655
lmao what the shit? is this a 5e campaign?

>>55161657
Like I said, raging faggot, so I play a bara mode Dwarf Pally

>>55161717
Homebrew shit.

Paladins themselves get an aura of +ATT at level 1, but only get a proper attack at level 5, whereas Warriors and their archetypes get an attack that consumes all of their mana, times it by two, and adds that to their damage.

>>55161771
jesus fucking christ whoever came up with that homebrew should be shot

>>55161847
The Warrior attack does not have a "per day" usage, but the Paladin attack is once per day with their faith scoring added on.

>>55161894
the fuck is a faith scoring? Are you telling me they put an actual number to the strength of faith?

>>55161433
>taking za beito

>>55163173
>i was only pretending to be retarded

Even pretending to be retarded is still being retarded.

>>55150787
>I'm a butthurt fagly cleric that converts all my spells to cure spells because that's all I'm good for with my 3/4ths BAB

kek

>>55153467
>Hasted

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>>55152992
>>55153015
>>55161433

Technically, the area Jeanne was from was owned by the english at the time of her birth., so she's english by birth and french by choice.

>>55163378

Heals tend to be a lvl 0/at will domain thing for most good aligned clerics, so unlimited in casting.

>>55163538
Considering the short amount of time that was actually the case, i'd still say she's french.

Because Cleric art tends to depict effeminate men and anime girls.

Whereas paladin art depicts men and stronk women.

>>55163538
That's like saying every french man born under german occupied france was german by birth, that's dumb.

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>>55163673
What are you talking about?

Pic related is how D&D clerics usually look.

>>55163673
>Because Cleric art tends to depict effeminate men and anime girls.
I mean, that's true, if you're talking about JRPGs.
TRPG clerics from the western world are a bit beefier, more on the order of Van Helsing types really.

>>55163538
>Heals tend to be a lvl 0/at will domain thing for most good aligned clerics, so unlimited in casting.

In what system?

>>55148274
Paladins, back in 1e are literally a prestige class for a fighter, and required a cleric's blessing to become one.

So I never let anyone play a Paladin without first being taught by a PC cleric's faith, then being allowed to take the Prestige Paladin PrC at a certain choice level.

That way, it's on the same level as blackguard.

>>55148274
I once made an orc cleric and went full deus vult on demon-worshipping elves. It was fun

>>55163778
Isn't this a Warhammer character?

>>55168457
This cross isn't a thing in Warhammer, so probably not.

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>>55148274
>Can't Deus Vult as a cleric

They have maces for a reason. Also Juju is more Deus Vult than girl in the series she's in.

>>55168770
You were right, I was thinking of this https://youtu.be/dNFGJQIW5ZM

>Cleric casts one spell and can fight better than paladins.
>Clerics can ride that god lightning so hard they rewrite reality to better fit their god's desires.
>Capable both in and out of combat.
>DM can't pull an alignment snafu and force you to fall, just play for a better team.

Paladins were a mistake

>>55170206
the only ones that weren't a mistake were charlemagnes

>>55170206
Playing a Paladin is not about trying not to fall. That just means that you're a shitty Paladin.

Playing a Paladin is finding something to fall for.

>>55170709
>Playing a Paladin is finding something to fall for

Now this is an interesting take on it

>>55170709
I mean, that sounds cool and all, but... no, it's not, unless you're just punning. In the sense that guy's talking about falling, it actually means BETRAYING one's oath or vow, not "fall for [it/them]," i.e., one's principles. Paladins come rolled up with some kind of oath, or allegiance, to a code, a diety, a kingdom, a ruler, SOMETHING. Originally, paladins were just really lawful good fighters, so you could say they at heart had to hew to anything that aligned itself with that. Right now, paladins are more like fighters with some really strong principles they derive powers from.

What the hell is a paladin as someone "finding something to fall for"? That's not a paladin! That might as well be a fucking mercenary! For Christ's sake, if paladins are supposed to have any flavor at all besides "a fighter but casts spells too," you can't just have a paladin who isn't committed to anything at all.

>>55171184
I think he means that the act of playing a paladin is about finding something in the game that would seriously make the paladin consider his oaths or vows.

Whether he chooses his oaths or that thing, it'll make the paladin a better character either way.

In other words, a well played paladin is one that isn't a mindless lawful good berserker, but one capable of thinking on his own.

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>>55148274
>You're not some deus vultfag, are you?

Yes I am, whatcha gonna do about it, you pedopriest betavirgin

>>55170206

They're there to fit the role of a arthurian knight when neither Fighters nor Clerics fit that role.

And also the DM CAN pull alignment AND domain snafus on clerics, they just don't because there's no meme about it.

I think it was because AD&D had paladins with that hyper restrictive code they had to follow, chastity, grace etc... which was a lot more restrictive than Clerics had, which later editions then nerfed down to parity with clerics, but the meme of the fall was too stronk by that point.

>>55170535
Charlemagne was a mistake

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>>55172617
Astolfo wasn't

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>>55148274
DnD is designed like shit. What's you're point?

>>55148274
Chicks dig a guy who'll carry them out of a dragon's burning lair.