Malifaux General

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>>55105016
Old thread

>>55144175
Impossible, OP isn't a faggot who fucked up the thread name/ title

>>55144175
Holy, how they fucked up Storm so badly with resculpt? I like Snow's pose, even if the face is a mess.

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>>55144248
I miss Gremlin General.

Sensei Yu beatsticky at all? I want to get started on 10 thunders and I want to convert him with a spare space marine head to turn him into Geese.

>>55144318
Which one is which? I loved painting the yeti but the girl's practically a pile of trash. Her robes are funky, her face is practically non-existent, it's all so low quality on her.

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>>55144381
The yeti looks like a generic demon man without blue paint. I think the girl was a weak point on the old model too, but for different reason.

>>55144328
SenseI Yu is mostly about pushing guys around and handing out focus. He has a decent attack, but he's not really a primary beatstick.

>>55144328
Sensei Yu doesn't even have a charge. In melee he is OK, and Brutal Sensei is pretty nice though, as it is at least 1 extra damage. You can run him with Misaki so you can use Stalk and get positives along with the ability to follow your target around. With McCabe he can of course be deadly with the Glowing Saber, and being able to hand it out to another model after he is done with it is super handy.

>>55144489
I like the old Storm a bit more, just because the antlers and the swirls on his arms make him look more like a wendigo. The new one isn't bad though, especially when painted right. The grey one in that pic just isn't flattering.

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>>55144328
You can run him with the High River upgrade for some flaming kicks, or just wait it out for the Lotus Eaters.

Can someone post the fluff for the Tanuki?

>Wokou Raider has 8 charge
Holy shit thats surprisingly large. Shame its coordinated raid doesn't let you declare triggers though, I'd actually use it sometimes to try and finish off enemy models using the desolation engine, rusty alyce or some other abomination spawner. As is it feels more like a seven stone model lacking in synergy. Fuck you cant even give it focus with i pay better and it desperately relies on hitting at least a mod.

Which models do you wish could be hired out of faction by a specific master?
I'd love to see hoffman get coppelius back or perdita be able to do something tuco related. I kinda feel like Sun Quiang could have been an academic, but i guess there might have been some broken combo with sandeep.

>>55146950
That's a very good point. I am not sure if the trigger for another model to get an extra attack really makes them worth the rocks.

>>55144489
Snow Storm are cutiepatooties

>>55147377
They are generally tanky. 8 wounds, WP 6 to protect from casty shenanigans, anti cheat vs claw and bullet proof vs shoots. + flips on a 6 base attack at a 10 inch threat and get a scheme marker trick 0 all at once? fuck yeah! Then the problems appear. Its ranged attack is almost never really worth using, besides coordinated raid its triggers aren't all that good and it has min 2 damage on an attack that doesn't even ignore armor or hard to wound. These things of course could be easily rectified if it had synergy, but instead of useful synergy it has last blossom (you can teleport it around a little? its already charge 8) and bandit. Mercenary would mean it could get focus and interact with the viktorias, freikorps would mean it could get a ram and armor from the new engineer, get htk from schill etc. As it is its hard to fit into a crew not because its bad, but because it doesn't have real synergies and all the other models of equal strength get synergies in addition to that strength.

>>55144318
I'm just seeing it now, I really want Snowstorm as I just started Raspy, but holy fuck the sculpt for snow is fucking awful. Maybe I should just find alternate models..

I saw a thing of models at the LGS for this gane the other day. Most of the models look like bland steampunk, but there were some really neat fleshmonster things. How does the game play, and how cheap woukd an army built around the abominations be?

>>55148376
Total buy in can be done for >$100.

If you're after "flesh monsters" check out McMourning or Leviticus.

>>55148448
I'm liking Leveticus. I'll be at my LGS tomorrow for Warhammer - I'll check the name of the thing I really liked.

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>>55148376
The game plays with 8 or so models per side, each players have a shared objective and 2 secret objectives, chosen from a pool of 5.

The goal is to score points by achieving your objectives and fighting for the main one, some objectives involve killing other models, some require you to have models in a certain part of the board, some require to have your models drop markers in certain positions. The game is only about murdering the other crew 50% of the time.

The games uses a deck of playing cards instead of dice. You get 6 cards in your hand at the start of the turn that you can use to "cheat", meaning replace a card you have flipped off the top of your deck when attempting an action.

Any questions? ask away mate.

>>55148491
Leviticus works by skulking around the board and murdering a model each turn. If he dies he can posess one of the hollow waifs (the girls following him around) and literally have her body morph in to his own.

When he or his crew kills something, they can get turn in to abominations. The abominations can then combine in to an even bigger abomination.

Levi can also hire almost any construct or undead model in the game, so you can tool him to achieve any scheme int he game.

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>>55148534
That sounds like a fun playstyle. Is it expensive?

>>55148496
How could I get people nearby interested in the game? Also, these are the models that I found.

>>55148713
Those models are from the levi set. I'm not sure exactly what models he needs to function, as I've only faced him, not played him, but his crew box + a desolation engine would be a good place to start if you want to go abomination heavy.

The game is pretty popular, look for the group "A Wyrd Place" on Facebook, it's the biggest Malifaux group and you should be able to ask for nearby players there.

Already having the Misaki starter box, TT archers, and Yamaziko, what else would be a decent investment towards a Misaki crew? I'm new to the game, proper, and mostly picked up the boxes due to having a massive soft spot for Chinese and Japanese-styled minis. I must admit, the Oni's Wrath set looks inviting, too, but I want to avoid piling up a bunch of minis before I see how I like the actual gameplay.

Just had my first game in a while with a friend.

The game ended 1-0.

It made me realize how bad we are at Malifaux.

>>55149737
Or SO GOOD that you denied each other.

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>>55144489
Old Storm/wendigo/beast is a lot better, but the old Snow/woman is terrible.

>>55146950
>>55147377
>I am not sure if the trigger for another model to get an extra attack really makes them worth the rocks.
I don't think they are supposed to be killers as much as offensive support.
As >>55147738 says they are fairly tough, but rather than being teleported, because it is so fast and decently survivable, it's a decent place to drop Shadows-ing models from - get Jorogumo, Misaki or another Raider dropped straight into the middle of the enemy crew (or backfield).

>>55149355
Wokou Raiders!

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>>55149737
Can you do a micro-batrep?
Just lists and schemes and "I pushed up, he held back" type shit?

I usually have veery low-scoring games too, I'd be interested to see how yours played out.

>>55149355
Jorugumo are good with both misaki and onis wrath. Oiran can be good but some people hate them. Ama no zako can give you a big scary sidefield runner or you could get the shadow emissary to help support your crew, it gives misaki extra ap if she kills stuff. The shadow effigy is a single model that helps you do schemes and protects misaki.

>>55148713
Levi has a cool gimmick where he can hire any undead or any construct (but not all of both at once) because of this he is usually going to want a large pool of models. Ultimately though levi is probably fine with the levi box, ashes and dust, maybe desolation engine and then whatever looks cool to you. Flesh constructs maybe.

>>55150933
>>55151101
Thanks for the suggestions. I will look into those.

Papa loco, how do you use him? I like to have him give positive damage to montresor with his ranged 1/4/7 spread and to heal him with nurses, then cleanse the paralyxe so he can blow up again.

Has anyone found a pdf of book 5 yet?

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>>55151272
The Bros are always worth a pick up in 10T.
I actually think the Oiran are pretty good if you use them as interference/spoilers rather than the Lure-bots people seem to think they are.

>>55151607
I don't think it gets released until a few weeks after the hard copy, and I doubt it's owrth anyone's time to trash their book scanning it for the ungrateful masses.

How to deal with yasunori with guild?

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>>55152316
Block charge lanes, facetank with something expendable, counterpunch.
Same as everyone else.
His killpower is just so silly that it's almost the only way.

If youc an channel that charge onto a high-armour, high-Wd target, all the better.

>>55151919
I think that Oiran are decent choices if you use them with Smoke & Shadows (It's only a 1ss upgrade!) You are right about their lure being overrated. They aren't resser models after all. But with the ability to generally block off parts of the board to ruin plans while being cheaper than other last blossoms, they are tons of fun.

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>>55152916
Shit son, it's the 8" charge with a trigger to stop them targeting Showgirls that's sick.
Between that and Disguised, they're decent even outside Last Blossom crews.

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So tell me folks, is My little Helperbroken bullshit or not?

I've heard varying opinions from the podcastosphere, and in my own limited experience against it it has been either pretty cool and useful or a total ball-breaker, but I am too small a sample size, and my scene too low-skill, to make a judgement on.

>>55144175
>You let it die edition
Riiiise!

>>55154556
MLH is good, resser had fuck all good general upgrades for a while, whilst Arcanists had imbued energires, TT had Recalled training etc. It's no more broken than any of those imo.

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>>55154599
The impression that I had is that the extra (0) has the potential to be absolutely huge with certain models, especially since there are a few that are balanced around only getting to use them once per turn.
Carrion Emmisary adn Shards, for example, is a lot of board-blocking bullshit, and Archie double-leaping can be big.
No doubt there are many more.

I agree though, RT and IE set the bar pretty fucking high for 1ss upgrades.
They are disposable though.

>>55154704
the double (0) action + card draw can only be used once, it more or less is disposable.

>>55154893
This. Same with Debt to the Guild for that matter.

>>55149817
Definitely not. It was play errors on my end.

>>55150970
I'll pay one when I get a chance.

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>>55154893
Show of Force concerns.
Not that it's such a problem.

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Does anyone have pics of Tat's translucent crew?

I want to see if it does look good.
The grey just seems an uninspiring colour to do it in, compared to the spooky greens and flame red/orange etc.

Select all the bridges.
That's a railing, Captcha.
You'll never be SkyNet like that, you idiot computer.

>>55155651
Can't you just use a glaze or transparent paint like Tamiya's if you don't like the transparent white color?

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>>55155699
It's very grey, not white, without strong lightin.

Or at least the set a friend got was.

... Having checked, it's either, but the grey is the one I don't see the appeal of.

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>>55150970
Fug. 4 Chan ate my batrep.

The super short version is:
I played McMourning he played Viks.
We got Reconnoiter, but it turned into a big scrum in the center.
He failed to score power ritual and breakthrough.
I failed on bodyguard and frame for murder, Rafkin died the nurse lived.
We called it in turn 4, when he was down to a single Ronin. I scored 1 point for Reconnoiter. It would have been 2 or even three if kept going.

We got the standard and sure stuff a bit mixed up, and we won't weren't coming a corner in your deployment.

>>55155849
>sure stuff
Story stuff

I'm interested in getting into the game, but have a question- The Dreamer supposedly works with Nightmares, but I haven't seen a list of what is or isn't a nightmare- thematically I was hoping Teddies would be but I've seen nothing that indicates they are, though I have seen them mentioned as a good option for Dreamer anyway. What outside his starter crew would be worth looking at?

>>55156131
https://pullmyfinger.wikispaces.com/Dreamer+Crew+List

>>55155849
Sounds like you both got caught in the "get distract by pummeling you opponent models" trap. No reason there should be a scrum in the middle in reconnoiter.

>>55156131
Teddies are in fact Nightmares as they have the Nightmare characteristic. Check the start card almanac in the OP. The Dreamer is often run as a summoner, so filling out his summon list is a good idea. You should look at a doppleganger as well as it can help you by copying actions and letting you cheat the initiative. You can also try grabbing Mr. Tannen, as he can potentially help the Dreamer's summoning, allowing you to potentially summon Teddies. While she can't be summoned the Widow Weaver is a very handy nightmare that can make Teddies and Wicked Dolls out of scrap markers, along with generally providing support.

Did GG18 change the summoning punishment? I've heard some chatter but can't see the difference.

>>55156188
>https://pullmyfinger.wikispaces.com/Dreamer+Crew+List
That's a good thing to know, thank you. So they ARE nightmares, but specifically for him. If I was planning to use them, would Kade be worthwhile, or is the Dreamer's own shenanigans enough to keep them moving around?

So, I've been looking to get into Malifaux, since there's a few players over at my FLGS.
thing is where do I really start? is there something I need, or can I just buy the minis I want and go from there?

>>55156444
The Dreamer should be more than enough for the Teddies. Keep in mind that the list is not entirely up to date, as Night Terrors aren't nightmares anymore, and the Bandersnatch is a nightmare.

How are Guild Masters looking nowadays, especially after their new upgrades?

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>>55155699
>transparent paint
what is this?

>>55156465
It uses standard measuring tape, but you will need a deck of playing cards. You can always just get a Bicycle deck, or you can pay $10+ for one of the nice plastic decks that Wyrd makes. You should also get some markers. 30mm and 50mm circles of a few colors (Bases work) should do. After that you can buy whatever minis interest you.

>>55156493
It's a line of paints that Tamiya sells in pots and spray cans. They also have transparent primer (Clearcoat I believe) that is good for transparent models or any colored plastic really. Glazing medium can give you transparent paint as well, but apparently it handle a bit differently.

>>55156490
I would say that Hoffman and Lady Justice got buffs that they deserved, and I would say that the faction is rather well rounded at this point. McMorning got Test Subjects which is super cool, and will make playing him in Guild better. It varies for other masters, and range from slight buffs like McCabe's to funky alternate playstyles like Lucius's.

>>55156418
The first iteration of the beta made any summoned models prob for the remainder of the game. The current iteration has it rolled back to just making summoned models not count for Ours, the new tables quarters strat.

>>55156229
Yeah. I sort of got distracted trying to take out his sniper. We played the graveyard as severe terrain, and then we flipped corner deployment and forced me to deploy my whole crew there, and I didn't want my whole crew picked apart as I tried to slog out.

Failing the strategy wasn't a huge problem honestly. The 6 points I could have scored on schemes, if I'd played things better was worse.

>>55156963
>models prob
Peons, that is

>>55156564
>to funky alternate playstyles like Lucius's
What's lucius do now?

>>55156501
thank you anon!

>>55156564

Interesting. Would you say Hoffman or J's listbuilding was shaken up at all, or was it just their relative power that improved?

How's Sonnia? Her Totem summoning seems interesting, but it was a never-take before so I'm not sure if there's much incentive to summon it.

>>55157342
It's relative power really. Lady J is as melee beatsticky as she should be, and Hoffman is no longer entirely gimped, nor is he entirely immune to armor ignoring.

>>55157342
Free models are always good.

>>55157360
Hoffman's hiring options are opened up some with the ability to turn models into constructs.

And I would say The Jury and DM Recruiters from wave 4 should see alot of play with Lady J.

>>55157412
It does make me want to run, The Judge, jury and executioner in each list.

>>55157380
Wouldn't you need to sacrifice the Malifaux Child to use it? If you are the sort to use the Purifying Flame though, then it would of course always be good. I like how Brewmaster got a similar upgrade as well.

>>55157448
I don't know. I don't play Sonia

>>55157525

Yes, the Malifaux Child dies if you bring him and then summon the Purifying Flame.

>>55157540
I know that part, I meant to say, I don't know what the Child does in the list, and whether the purifying flame is worth it.

>>55157583
The Child is there mainly to place more flame pillars on the field. It is pretty handy for blocking off more parts of the board, and is probably Sonnia's most popular totem.

What is /tg/'s take on the Ashwood Box upgrade that Lady J got? Is running her as an agressive burier going to be a good deal if you can get hits in on buried models? I am pretty happy with Swordfighter at least.

>>55159215
Lady J is a beater, being able to hit buried models will mean she can make short work of just about anything that has been buried.

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>>55155849
>>55156978
>Fug. 4 Chan ate my batrep.
There are few things more frustrating.
Thanks for the summary though.
I like the table - good mix of terrain and zones of open/densely obstructed sight lines.

One of the things that was pointed out to me recently is that you define the table AND deployment zones during the first stage of setting up the game, so one of you probably should have called bullshit on a deployment zone that would have totally fucked one player and played along the other axis.

>>55156963
>>55156418
>summoned models do not count for Ours, but do for all other schemes and strats
Better, but still totally inelegant.

>>55157150
You can pretty much pick any crew box (or two, ideally in teh same faction) and have models that will last you for the first couple (or six, with two boxes) months of gaming before you learn all their tricks.

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>>55156564
>funky alternate playstyles like Lucius's.
>>55157082
>What's lucius do now?
Also interested - picked him up but never got around to actually playing him.

>>55157583
>>55157602
What's the Purifyng Flame do?
I've seen the Child-Pillar spam list, andit's obnoxious as fuck and I don't like it.
Anything that encourages people not to do that is a win.

>>55160895
>One of the things that was pointed out to me recently is that you define the table AND deployment zones during the first stage of setting up the game, so one of you probably should have called bullshit on a deployment zone that would have totally fucked one player and played along the other axis.
Good to know. We're both pretty new players.

>>55161036
>Also interested - picked him up but never got around to actually playing him.
Same. I grabbed his old metal box, because I liked the sculpt.

Deep Pockets (1ss): Limited. Grants Arcane Reservoir and at the start of Lucius' activation you can discard a card to draw a card. If the discarded card was higher you can discard the card you just drew to draw a new card.

Condescending (1ss): If the opponent has less VP Lucius may discard an enemy scheme marker when he activates. When Devil's Deal kills a friendly model add a soulstone to the cache. Lucius gains a 1AP attack that gives the target a condition that keeps them from cheating fate until the end of the turn.

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>>55161348
Wellllllll shit son, that's a pretty tastypair of upgrades reet thar.
Deep Pockets in particular is crazy good - That's cheaper than Arcanist Arcane Reservoir AND gives you card draw.

>>55161348
Neat. I was under the impression they created an entirely different play style though, from>>55156564

>>55159760
She doesn't hit the buried models with her normal attack with the upgrade. Her normal attacks still have the same restrictions.

>>55161036
>What's the Purifyng Flame do?
Not very much. It and the Scales of Justice are among the rarely taken totems in the game. Sonnia really doesn't need the extra burning it gives.

>>55161348
>>55161401
Deep Pockets is 2SS, so same as Arcane Res, but still better

>>55161737
I think Scales will see more play with Swordfighter. That 2 card discard for plus flips makes the scale's card draw more useful

>>55156131
A new model in a few months will come out called serena bowman who can turn any neverborn into nightmare. Insidious madness, teddy and widow weaver are the main nightmares outside the dreamer box.

>>55162952
That's a pretty good point actually. Now that Lady J does more of the heaving lifting for the crew it's not like spending the stones for it will make you lose out.

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Hey guys, another interested player here. I really like the look of pic related and it looks like the box is pretty commonly found for about $30, how much more would I need to get in order to have a respectable force?

I already play 40k and Warmahordes and have 4 different armies for each, and I'm also a /k/ommando. I'm not hurting for cash, but I realllly don't wanna wind up sinking hundreds more into another hobby.

Can someone give me a rundown of how a normal game looks? I understand it's more about doing your own thing, preventing the other guy from doing his, and if you happen to need to fight then alright but it's not really a combat focused game. I don't know anyone who plays either, so I'm gonna be seeking out a new group. If anybody wants to dump a bunch of other information on me, like how each army plays and other factions I might be interested in (call me an edgy hipster faggot but I like the creepy/bizarre thing) have at it.

Thanks in advance.

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>>55164088
Teams are typically 8-10 models; but some masters and models can summon additional models, so they require more of an investment. Typically; a crew box and a couple other boxes are enough to get you into the game.

Some people don't want to fight, but some people do. I always make it a point to be fighting my opponent because that's what I find to be fun; but if you completely ignore objectives and just fight then you'll most likely never win a game. Playstyles are often more defined by the master you choose than the faction, in my opinion. But that might be because I play Arcanist and almost all their masters are quite different from each other.

>>55164088
A normal game is about 8 models a side. That said if you run a summoner you will want more, and having more for flexibility is nice. You generally start the game by having your guys move up to strategic positions based on the objectives, and getting them to try and score points while baiting your opponent into various things. Objectives are hidden from each other, so there is some initial guesswork until points start being scored. You really can win the game even if all of your dudes are killed by the end, as long as you scored points, as objectives can often be as simple as standing in one place or having your guys place markers in a certain area. You aren't going to have a lot of games where every part of the board is played on, as models generally concentrate on one area based on objectives. Exceptions would be guys that you want to move to your opponent's side of the table to score, but don't expect to be hopping up buildings or worry too much about going fast over more subtle moves. Your master will often be near and supporting your other dudes, but it can really vary depending on which one you run.

You generally have to pick and choose fights. While some crews focus on destroying the enemy crew, you generally have some dedicated hard hitters ruin things for models that you don't like for whatever reason. The card mechanics play a lot into things, as being able to hit just hard enough to the point where your opponent will be wasting high cards from their hand to protect their dudes is beneficial. With better cards you can have an advantage for the turn.

The guy you picture will often be fucking up the opponent's crew from a distance, controlling his puppets from behind, and generally staying back. Someone like Misaki (Assassin ninja lady) on the other hand will bumrush down the board and kill the biggest model that she can get her hands on before dying herself. Factions have general game design principals, but it really does vary based on master.

As a new Ressers player, it's amusing to realize how much crossover we have now with Arcanists in addition to Outcasts.

So, how's Talos looking for Tara? Anyone do any playtesting, especially after her new upgrades?

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>>55162860
>Deep Pockets is 2SS, so same as Arcane Res, but still better
Good. I was about to whine "bullshit".

>>55164088
Collodi, your pic, tends to have a core of his minion puppets that move around in a cluster, while a few other run the flanks and objectives.
A puppet in that bubble can take actions when he is harmed, and he can shove damage off himself onto them to stay alive.
He controls enemy models as well as if they were puppets, which as you can imagine is incredibly handy.
Also his crew looks cool as shit.

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>>55164480
As an Arcanist, it's nice to have a bit of give and take iwth another faction.
Oh wait, there's none of that. Fuck you zomboy, gimme my Beasts, Mages and girls back.

What would you consider essential non-construct hoff units for the new upgrade?

>>55168145
Francisco. I think hoff can give him armor. Nimble papa loco too

>>55165452
He is good if you like death marshals, hannah and the hodgepodge. Cant see him doing much for ressur tara or void wretch spam tara.

So now that the ashes and dust have settled, can we all admit levi was overnerfed?
Also mech rider nerf was unjustified other riders were too shit and so was rail golem the other high cost arcanist model, mech rider was reasonably balanced compared to langston.

>>55168587
>can we all admit levi was overnerfed?
Probably, increasing the damage suffered to channel probably would have been a better compromise.
>Also mech rider nerf was unjustified
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

no.

Its summoning cost is finally in line with other non-master summoners, and the change to the marker trigger on its attack is more of a sidegrade than a nerf.

>>55168587
He's hardly garbage now. Just not at the top of the pack anymore, which is fine. He still has half the roster as his hiring pool, he can still make that 8 damage jab, he still can't really die. He's fine.

>>55170165
Brewmaster still has several of the most potent control abilties in the game, kirai and the dreamer (even post nerf) can still bring out some of the most powerful summon spam of any masters. Levi's not dying trick really is only relevant against very new players because though he doesn't technically die he is incredibly fucking vulnerable through his waifs and/or anchors. Levi's strongest ability was as a weaker than average damage dealer that ignored all defenses rather than just most of them like mcmourning etc, the spooky 8 damage has a lower tn, requires a severe to be relevant and is stuck behind a 6 inch threat range on a model that does not want to unbury 6 inches from enemies (because it means his waif was in absurd danger) and who only has a mobility option that requires sacrificing a 4+ cost that must already be next to where you want to go.

The whole "half the hiring pool" meme needs to die, every single dual faction master has a hiring pool as large as his, it just doesn't draw from as many factions at once in the case of constructs. His pariah of bone ends up having about as much hiring ability as tara, minus 40% of the ressurs but plus a few other things whilst his construct side still doesn't put him close to zoraida. With the rise of stuff like mcmourning's new hiring beasts and academics wyrd has shown pretty fucking clearly being able to take a wider variety of models isn't that fucking bullshit, the difference between combining teddy with langston and combining any other two beaters is miniscule. It doesn't even let him pick "the best models of each faction" considering most of the best models in the game right now are neither undead nor constructs, but stuff like yasunori.
>>55169729
Coppelius is a similar summoner (doesn't summon turn 1, nearly always does on turn 2 and can do so turn 3+ with consistency) with a stronger summon (alp vs wounded gamin or spider) at lower ss/card. Langston is an arcanist same ss model picked more often.

>>55171829
To be clear I'm not saying brewmaster is good, I'm saying "still having something" doesn't make you a good master. Ironsides always had a really strong aura to M&SU models but until now was just plain trash.

>>55171829
Coppelius isn't really comprable to the mechanical rider.

>>55171829
Doesn't change the fact that he's not, by any stretch of the imagination, weak. His waifus giving him free activations in addition to being able to hire incredibly strong models cross faction, giving him both a strong and very versatile array of models and a good activation count to boot even when he goes full elite. He is very flexible through his crew, so him not outdamaging Lady J is only fair. You can say that dual faction masters can hire four of a specific keyword but implying that to any degree measures up to all undead or all constructs as a potential hiring pool is ridiculous.

>>55171903
He cant give out reactivate, that's for sure. But lets put this in perspective, the mech rider is +4 stones in cost, cant be summoned mid game, is perhaps more resistant to wp stuff (stubborn is a bitch) but between terror, df boosting and the self healing coppelius is similarly tough. The AoE horror duels and extra attack trigger are pretty tough but I'd say most people would put the mech rider as winning on attack power here, but stone for stone he is killier i suppose. I think if you take into account the 50% price increase from coppelius to mech rider they are very comparable models. The Mech Rider was hardly the most powerful model in the game and it certainly wasn't even close to weak but what annoys me about its nerf is how many other things like will o wisps with zoraida (god help us with her new triggers) sensei yu and/or recalled training being auto include for TT and so on go untouched whilst this model got a minor nerf. It's supposed to be the "emergency errata" but the only emergency in the meta was will o wisp zoraida and supposedly the stuffed piglet thing was super important but i didn't get a chance to play against that.

>>55171829
>Coppelius is a similar summoner
An alp is an insignificant peon, Mech rider summons minions, big difference there,

>>55172018
Shenlong, Dreamer, reva, gremlin masters, hamelin, every summoner, nellie and probably some other things i havent thought of all get the same or better activation control, his waifus giving activations (and only activations, they are not significant, capable of combat or capable of support) is not a giant strength.

To explain the dual master thing i don't mean "within one faction they can hire as much as levi" i mean that the master plus its theme crew can be taken with a massive pool of models between the two factions they can be taken in. The difference between having access to all those different models in that way and in levi's way is nowhere near as big as people make it out to be, since almost all the best out of faction models are either unavailable to levi (doppleganger, yasunori, shadow emissary, francisco arguably etc) or lack the synergy and tools they benefit from normally he isn't "picking and choosing the best" he is either picking 50% of ressur+outcast or a handful of choice models like teracotta warrior clumped together to no greater effect than they would normally achieve. If this hiring pool of his were so effective there would be dozens of reports of amazing combos unavailable to other masters, but there are very few because he isn't a combo enabling master.

The Lady J comparison is unfair because he does far less damage than lady J, gets less + flips, lacks her ability to give support to her crew and his mobility whilst in some ways is greater in plenty of other ways is limited. Even with channeling nobody would take you seriously if you compared his damage or mobility to the viktorias, lady j with emissary, mcmourning etc. His actual playstyle/damage output was much closer to reva/seamus/rasputina but lacking their other tricks in exchange for ignoring certain defenses. Now he has lost his damage but doesn't have their tricks, leaving him with very little. He's not old lucius, but he is like seamus and pre-errata ironsides.

>>55172213
Yeah fair enough I'm probably undervaluing that quite a lot, especially with how the gaining grounds things have changed. Like i said its more about how other "autopicks" got untouched and many "neverpicks" still haven't been touched. Just you wait! January QOL errata will buff Desperate Mercs and High River Monks! You'll see! They will finally get around to it this year for sure...

>>55172478
Speaking of neverpick wishlists, the entirety of the neverborn side of the starter set desperately needs it. Though scion of black blood could use a bit less of a buff i guess, I'm always surprised that neverborn players never take him whilst simultaneously complaining neverborn condition removal is shit compared to johan. Big wound pool, no ap cost or chance of failure on condition removal, uses a resource neverborn get more of than most others and has potent damage. I guess its because its hard to compare him to other neverborn beaters? Base 5 kinda sucks in many people's eyes but to me it says "this guy kills teddies" or "this guy targets the langston" since besides masters most high wounds models have shitty DF.

>>55172478
>High River Monks
I'd honestly nominate them for worst models in the game. Which is a shame, because I love the sculpts. I'm not even sure I want Wyrd to flail about desperately trying to make them something. We know how that goes by now.

Any other contenders?

Okay Malifaux General, what's your dream crew? Not the crew you want to build and actually can, but the ones you cant!
I always wanted a crew formed around the frost master from that one crossroads scenario, but i suppose i sorta can now with the new raspy upgrades giving her armor and gamin summoning.
I also dream of having Tuco, Hayreddin, The Forgotten Marshal, The Firestarter and Fuhatsu recieve the Tormented tag they so justly deserve. Okay so maybe only Tuco super deserves it but hey, Hayreddin and Forgotten Marshal seem pretty loopy to me!
>>55172570
In the very post you replied to it said "Desperate Mercenaries". If High River Monks won the gold medal in the badlympics, those guys transcended into badvana by following the teachings of baddha and finding their inner badness.

>>55172763
You wouldn't take HRM if they went from 6 to 4SS. I'd fill up on a Merc for 3 if I could.

>>55172871
I would absolutely take the HRM at 4 stones 3 base 6 attacks, 6 wounds 6 df, average walk etc but it gets a free push so it can chase down scheme runners, who cant escape easily and get punished for trying? Plus it can put out a lot of burning for some mei feng synergy and gets double focus from shenlong instead of 1 focus. Honestly I'd consider taking 3 of them at 4 stones for cheap activations, resillience and damage. That said at 5 stones they would still be a hard sell. I think you really should check out how few 4 costs have a statblock like hrm.

>>55172763
I want to play Lev as a support master with Waifs being the primary means of damage delivery and tarpitting. Sadly, no good support to make Waifs viable for the position and Levs few support options are generally traps if not heavily situational at best.

>>55172917
It's not about the statblocks, it's about what they do. And they don't do anything you want or need. The LRM provide good heals, even the Effigy provides a sturdy body, schemer and leader protection. Depleted are decent tarpits, Hounds are better cheap activations... There's fuck all they do that you'd actually want.

>>55173011
>leader protection
Is the [-] flip really that useful? I always thought he was the weakest, especially given the high cost of the scheme ability,

>>55173049
Giving a - to any attack means you can choose one attack and have it miss. Moreso than saving your master from a 3 or 4 damage blow and some nasty triggers it tends to actively deter attacks since people don't want to move out of their way to have something go up in smoke. And he's not a big schemer because of the ability - he's a decent schemer because Wk5, Df6 and Armor and HtK. He's more effort than it tends to be worth to take down, unless he engages you at Ml7, and then he becomes too costly to disengage than it should be for a 4 SS model. He's just a general nuisance but with an actual purpose.

>>55173011
Hounds are only available to mccabe. Base 6 attacks with burning and the ability to get 3 of them at 9 inch threat is enough to make them a cheap activation that can utterly destroy any cheap enemy model and yet can take a beating from those same models back without a problem. You underestimate them for the same reason some people underestimate the void wretch spam tara list, having extra actions on a durable for its cost model that provides cheap activations as well is amazing. You aren't taking them to fill a role, but as potent bodies that simply win on value for cost.
>>55173006
I wanted them to give levi support options but i really don't understand where your vision of levi comes from. My big two angles for wyrd to have added levi support (instead of adding back some of his old damage and a noob trap in the form of aether shackles, though i guess if you don't have any of the dozen other outcast anti scheme marker models its ok) would be his ability to hand out desolate warping and add crows to triggers from his old version plus some deck/draw fuckery or to bring in something to do with his "unmade" defensive trigger, he has this tiny useless aura of +1 damage to unmade if he discards a card but something like making that aura bigger and/or extend around his waifs whilst he is buried plus handing it out would have been cool.
>>55173049
No, either the opponent will use more than one attack or will focus beforehand. Shadow Effigy is overrated, but do not think this makes it bad remember the mission is still amazing despite being situational and costly and the thing is an incredibly irritating tarpit. Accomplice/Companion are also underrated abilities that are arguably better than simply out activating your opponent since they can be abused at the start of a turn rather than waiting till after your opponent beats your shit up and this little fucker has accomplice. Zoraida did good when she made him, even if its leader ability isn't super awesome.

>>55173162
How can you point out the annoying cost of mi7 shadow effigy but not see how an mi6 engage that risks burning you on a model way tankier than its cost (6 df 6 wounds for 4 is plenty above the curve) would be annoying? WK5, df 6 are both available on him but he gets a push too so he's outright a better schemer.

>>55172213
This. Mech rider can double move and drop a significant model as a 0. Cop can only move once and drop a insignificant model as a 1 after having damaged an enemy previously.

Mech rider is a one model scheme running machine.

File: Sparks Bright.jpg (51KB, 310x370px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 310x370px

>>55169729
The Mech Rider is over-costed if the summoning isn't easy.

>>55172162
I think most people can agree that the time to call it an 'emergency errata' of Mech Rider passed a solid year ago.
The timing now is just weird - I would've said it's because Hidden Trap is coming back, but it wasn't really on the cards when the nerf came out.

>>55172478
I think this is a fair point - as far as balancing out models to minimise never-takes, these erratas have been pretty pants for everyone except Lucius.

>>55173175
>You aren't taking them to fill a role,
This is the whole point people are making against them.
You pick models for a role.
HRMs don't have one.
You are right, and I've argued the point before, that they are good models at 5ss, maybe a bit pricey at 6ss.
That is irrelevant against the fact that their best role is probably scheme runner hunting, which other models do better.

>>55173049
>Is the [-] flip really that useful?
Fuck yes it is. That's effectively burning an activation for models that aren't already engaged with you - there's no point charging if you're virtually guaranteed to miss one attack and then have to hope you beat the flip on the second. As >>55173162 said, it's about challenging the other guys' AP-cost.

>>55173175
>>55173194
They fold at a stiff breeze with zero defensive abilities. This makes it very easy for slightly bigger models to simply delete them instantly. The three attacks cost you a card and are really very low damage, it only works on a charge but once they're stuck in Melee, where they again die the second someone looks at them funny. They are bad because not only do they not do something people want, they're bad because they're even terrible at that. Now they wouldn't be the worst 4 SS models to be sure, but they'd still be outclassed by others in the same faction, especially if you include totems, and there comes a point where you have enough 4 SS units well before you reach these.

Seriously, did Fetrid accidentally made his way here? Paragraph after paragraph of completely misunderstanding models. Smells like a wyrd place...

>>55173364
If a model that can delete them instantly comes along that model has wasted 2 ap on a 4 cost. Anything remotely close to their cost has to be extremely lucky to have a chance at doing it in 2 ap. Its the same situation as void wretches, trading incorporeal for higher wounds and a good ml.

Also i figured out something worse, the guild sergeant. God i forgot it existed. Probably too busy trying to work out if you are fetid strumpet or not.

>>55173354
We aren't discussing them at 5ss and really i wouldn't take them at that, especially because the yokai would completely invalidate them at that point. You pick models for a role until they become so effective for cost roles no longer matter, such as how many players see Johan or how belles used to be seen, this is because regardless of what they are specifically meant to be doing they are adding more combat power and AP control to your crew than their cost implies by a large amount. With the burning, multiple attacks and most importantly the decent base they would absolutely turn your crew into something too efficient for an enemy to effectively deal with. Things like armor and that are great but they can be ignored (either by a high cost model flipping severe or actual armor ignore) and it functionally often only ends up being 1-2 extra wounds anyway for smaller models, htk is better against high cost models but still is only 1 extra wound unless your opponent activates knowing they will leave you at htk with a healer model around.

>>55173354
I honestly don't feel they need to fix never-takes besides masters though. Not all models can be hits. That much is fair. It's just masters that should have a decent shot at doing, well, anything. I was betting on Wyrd using the new upgrades to get to that but they've been wildly inconsistent in their quality.

>>55173049
>>55173175
Remember you can choose which attack gets a [-] to it. If they focus you simply don't apply the [-] and save it for another attack. And if this means your opponent spends 2 or 3 AP focussing a 4 SS model's 0 action has just cost your opponent 2 or 3 AP.

So I'm looking for the things the jury's mask seems neat on
>Perdita's obey and quick draw
>Lady J's extra attack
>Lucius Lackey
>Doug's pushes and his "you too" precise handout
>Slow on mccabes saber or making his bullwhip paralyze much easier
>Samael's ricochet
>The Judge's extra attacks
>Austringer's fucking stupidass discard two cards fucking jury austringer gonna take my whole hand
>Slow on Brutal Effigy
>Precise on Pathfinder
>Riposte for Sidir
>Assorted Wastrel fuckery
>Nurse Heartsbane's core triggers
This one is actually probably one of the better combos here so far, heartsbane's biggest problem is needing these triggers. Well, that and being squishy, but guild does have some fixes available for that.
>Sanctioned Spellcaster charge shutdown
>Dade/witchling thrall pushes
>Recruiter's friendly attack action trigger
Will make another post with out of faction takes in a moment, guild has a lot of them thanks to mcm, hoff and lucy liu. Dang it Mccabe get some TT Black Sheep! Will look into at least some of the mercenaries too.

>>55173175
>but i really don't understand where your vision of levi comes from
From this >>55172763
>what's your dream crew? Not the crew you want to build and actually can, but the ones you cant!
His general role is a finisher who dies all the time, I would have enjoyed playing the reverse. A frail perv empowering his murderous waifus. But his only support action competes with his only movement action, Entropic Demise is shit, and the vast majority of his upgrades are useless overcosted garbage geared toward offense.

>>55173516
If you bought those models without knowing you've literally bought dead weight. The only thing i think that should be allowed to be never takes are upgrades, since giving the upgrade an errata means they have to replace the physical card anyway so you aren't fixing the fact you sold a product that's useless at its intended function.
>>55173558
Uh, it doesn't just turn the entire attack into a negative flip you know, if they focused three times they have +++ so a - only gets them down to ++. If you thought it forced them to - no matter what you have been cheating or cheated.

>>55173162
>>55173175
>>55173354
>>55173558
Thank you for correcting me regarding Shadow Effigy.

>>55173603
Eh, i kinda feel like what you are asking for is for Levi to be collodi then, but collodi already exists. Also though its not a pervy old dude, the dreamer is a support master who buries himself and with his new upgrade can give his daydreams attacks. Someone in another thread did say now that he was an older kid he would have more adult dreams so your waifu conversions can come true! Besides that the reverse of levi exists in scion of the void she buries herself to attack through other models and takes damage whilst buried but actually avoids damage by becoming buried.
>>55173627
Just don't believe the whole "you can stop a multi focus attack!" thing, you can't even really stop a one focus attack, because they will probably cheat it and they still get + to the damage so they have not really wasted AP if they planned to cheat anyway.

>>55173354
>The Mech Rider is over-costed if the summoning isn't easy.
It's an unsuited 8, is still way easier than most.

>>55173610
>Uh, it doesn't...
Not in any way what I am saying. After an attack is declared you can remove the condition to give it a [-] modifier. If you choose not to you keep the condition and can use it on another attack. If someone then triple focuses on you, you can have the good sense not to use it and they've in turn used one or more AP to circumvent that buff while you're still keeping that buff.

>>55173627
Seriously, I have no idea what ^ guy is on about. He seems to fundamentally misunderstand either the model or what people are saying. The Shadow Effigy is a great cheap piece and that - is amazing if you know how to use it..

>>55173692
Ah, i misunderstood you. Where do you get this idea everyone is hating on the shadow effigy? Nobody has done that, even when i was at my most fervent in arguing for the HRM i took the time out to write a paragraph on why the effigy was great.

>>55173646
Not sure if I agree. mccabe, nellie, nicodem, lucius, previously mentioned collodi, sandeep, somer, these guys aren't all pure support, but they certainly manifest it in distinct mechanisms. Leveticus having a support option doesn't necessitate it being a clone, but I'm not sure if that is what you are saying, so maybe I'm offbase.

>>55173725
No, >>55173692 is saying >>55173610 is misunderstanding as "other people" have mostly commented on the effigy's utility.

>>55173753
What i am saying is the "attack through your waifus" thing is kinda done, serena bowman, raspy, reva, collodi, scion of the void, dreamer, ulix and probably some I'm missing. Of course the support aspect of him could be enhanced in any of a hundred ways, its just i was hoping you didn't actually know about these and i was enlightening you to a new master you would like. Guess not.

>>55173780
You seem to have misunderstood me now, because in >>55173725 i made two seperate statements, the first one (before the full stop/period) is about the whole +- debacle and the second bit is in response to the "misunderstands the model, its actually great" implication.

>>55173819
The rabbit hole keeps getting deeper...
I wasn't replying to the first sentence at all, but pointing out no one was hating on Shadow effigy except for possibly the guy misunderstanding it.

>>55173753
I think the previews comes with a big model pool. If you add support they're a lot of interactions to balance.

>>55173879
Indeed, in that case you are admitting to exactly what i was talking about in the second part of >>55173725 but failing to notice i was using hyperbole. I wonder if we would be this bad at communicating in another language. Is esperanto or something good? At this point I'm running out of patience with english.

>>55173579
>So I'm looking for the things the jury's mask seems neat on
>>Perdita's obey
So is there consensus that jury's aura works to add a mask to actions that need a mask meet their TN, and not just to add a mask to get a trigger? When "declaring triggers" is frustratingly vauge.

>>55173796
Thing is I never wished for that as it would take an errata of multiple cards to even accomplish.
Yea, seems like that is what happened.
>>55173883
I'm not sure what you mean, was 'previews' auto-corrected you dirty phone poster?

>>55164088

This guy here. If I get that box, what else should I get to go with it?

>>55173934
Stitched together
Brutal effigy
hodgepodge effigy

>>55173924
What I am trying to say is there was only ever one dude downplaying Shadow Effigy, and it was from not understanding. Just >>55173725, >>55173692 never refers to a bunch of people.
I have no idea why this conversation is failing so much, but it seems like it'll probably just keep going in a circle.

>>55173579
The Judge has declared recess is over, The Jury is now back in session! We will begin with out of faction hires, then move to mercs.
OOF
>Tannen's Yawn
>Silurid poison
>Waldgeist slow
>Gupp leap
Special mention here, you only need a 1 if you have the mask.
>Myranda hunting call
>Raptor rake the eyes
>Soulstone Miner throw enemy
>Scorpius Toxins
Blast or disables soulstones+0s.
>Kudra teleport/burn
>Amina Naidu free attack after 0
>Shastar melee into chakram
>Nurse Uppers, but its not hard to get anyway
>Night Terror blind
>Viscera Student ++ Damage vs living
>
Mercs
>Torakage movement shit
>Aionus marker stealing on attack
>Taelor/Bishop/Johan knockback
>Convict Gunslingers DF Trigger and its extra attack trigger
Pretty good here! Tragically rapid fire already eats cards and unless your name is nellie he isn't bringing anything special to guild for his cost. Still if you play nellie, have cards to burn, like the jury and don't like the new monster hunters these are your guys! I imagine nobody fits all those criteria at once.
>Hans ignoring incorp
>Killjoy Extra Attacks
>Ama No Zako heal
>Strongarm suit slow
>Sue's anti-scrap/corpse
>Big Jake's push/place
>Envy infinite attacks or aura handout
>Anna lifedrain
I ended up leaving out a few of the "push enemy" or "push self after attacking" ones.
>>55173928
Good catch! In my excitement to compile this list i did not notice that. I imagine perdita's obey cannot be masked this way, but emissary still exists!
>>55173934
Stitched Together, probably a bunch of if not all of the "Effigy" models and then the next things to look into are either puppet models (bunraku and wicked dolls are puppets) or models that are awesome with him like teddy and widow weaver. Soon a new puppet is coming out called hinamatsu, a lady with many swords.

>>55173931
>dirty phone poster?
I apologise for nothing.

I meant say balancing support abilities for Levi cold be a pain with his hueg model pool.

Speaking of Levi, think he's going to get any use out there wave five stuff? The centaurs might be fun.

>>55174045
You literally replied to me saying "you don't get hyperbole" with "but he was exaggerating to get my attention and/or make a point". If your first thought after reading this was about me using literally when it wasn't literal then you really have a problem with hyperbole. I fully understood he was only talking about me and not a crowd and i fully understood i was being accused of not understanding the effigy, i was defending myself against the misunderstanding of the model whilst admitting to misunderstanding the other poster.

We still talking about the shadow effigy?

I for one hate it. A shadow effigy killed my father and raped my mother.

>>55174177
That's not funny, my brother died that way.

>>55174048
Okay, looking through the new book now, only going to highlight really big ones.
Ferdinand Vogel can be taken by Lucius and can hand out red tape or make his awesome laws of nature push 6 and make an attack trigger.
His beast mode can do its teleport to another enemy and make a free attack trigger on its attack. These two things make me thing this is a scary combo.

The spooky Grootslang can take a free lair to lair after attacking, then take a free attack after lair to lairing! However the chances you will be in range of jury for both and want to spend two cards are low, still if you have a shitty card in hand and the jury is near a lair with an enemy nearby it seems good.
>>55174177
>>55174190
I hear the shadow effigy is a real dragon when the lights are out if you know what i mean. Nobody will know what i mean, there will just be a misunderstanding

>>55174118
Someone's treating an anonymous Nepalese trainspotting board like a forum.

>>55174118
I must because I don't see where this guy >>55173725 used it.
>>55174190
My cousin died on a farm. They were jumping onto piles of hay getting ready to be baled and had a rakes handle go right up his ass. The nearest hospital was something like 4 hours away. It was tragic, but sometimes we still laugh pretty hard when thinking back on it.

>>55174256
That is funny.

>>55174256
Just got my new TTB gremlin backstory.
Did anyone get the new edition? How did it change?

>>55174094
Everyone has huge model pools now, and even when they didn't guys like Marcus and Jack had arguably more relevant option options.

I'm working on a Leveticus conversion in which he is dressed in 1e attire, but all waifs and Alyce are lolis. Will this make games more difficult to find?

>>55174232
>Ferdinand Vogel
The render is going to shit all over this fine mans art. Where is the guy who did Hamline's box?

>>55174313
Eh, as someone who plays jack and levi the only model jack gets that is combo setup etc is nurses. The Tormented synergies are really not that different to just being a ressur or being levi. Levi does get some nice things of his own that are probably better. But yeah, Marcus synergies, mcmourning's new massive hiring pool applying to two factions, lucius hiring in guild, hoffman's crazy power loops with nearly every construct levi can get and of course lets not forget old bitch zoraida all equal levi. To be fair though, until recently lucius, zoraida and hoffman were not very good, about where levi is now in zoraida's case, of course now she is the new levi since will o the wisps made her godly and her new "obey when bewitching or obey a charge action" will take her to untold fucking heights of horror.
>>55174407
People play against pandora who has candy, who literally spends most of her time luring pedos in. I guess it might, but i doubt it.
>>55174437
Supposedly working on the other side models according to some people in malifaux general. But its just a rumour.

>>55174470
So thats why TOS has all the good art and renders.

>>55174604
The renders for TOS honestly don't look as good, but the art seems to be generally more polished. They have their freelancers working on TOS while their inhouse artist seems to be doing a lot of the TTB and Malifaux material.

>>55174470
Pretty amusing given whats happening in the story. It is fitting those old lovers should trade places.

>>55174627
Seems like a bit of a gamble. I don't really expect tos to do that well.

>>55174664
When a game has a higher entry cost than all of its competitors, it is just a hard sell.

What do you guys run and how do you guys play against Hamelin?

>>55174704
I pretend I'm at the wrong table and ask the guy two seats down to switch because he took my spot.

>>55174470
But Candy isn't lewd

>>55174664
It is going to fucking bomb. I know a large group of people who bought in to the kickstarter, played the game constantly with the testing rules for 2 months, then have not picked it up since and prefer not to bring up the issue.
The game is malifaux but dumbed down immensely but nowhere near enough to get the age of sigmar audience or whatever its trying to pull.
>>55174743
Gothic Lolita outfits are close enough to french maid to be seen as lewd. Anyway he didn't mention making lewd models.

What use does Bete have anymore? Seems like no one takes her since she is such a liability,

>>55174704
I suddenly get a very important work call and have to leave.

>>55174764
I imagine that it is trying to grab the Warmahordes audience, and generally the crowd that sees the hobby as an obstacle. I am honestly OK with subpar miniatures if they are cheap (I have a Mantic undead army set, a Chinacast Nagash, and the Reaper Bones Lords of Undeath set on my bench right now). But when they charge more than their hard plastic equivalents for low detail PVC I just find it to be hard to justify. And while I like the ideas behind the game, I wasn't massively impressed when I tried it out at Adepticon (Runewars was better desu). I am not a playtester so I can't really opine on that aspect as much.

>>55174764
But he is me and I'm using KD Pinup Savior abdomen with shortened child legs as the base. Have you ever really looked at the kneeling stolen? Quite a bit of detail if you know what I mean.

>>55174789
I want to take her all the time in McMourning and Nico lists, but always end up cutting her for something.

>>55174704
If i brought Levi or alyce with desolate soul i have a laugh and end the game with 5 desolation engines on the field. If i brought ressur mcmourning i end with 5 flesh constructs and 10 canine remains on the field.
If i brought anyone else i usually lose. His activation control (like all activation control caused purely by mass activations) is overrated, "true" activation control like mood swing or chain activations is way scarier but his very reliable obeys, ability to stand way in the back and generally being an annoying fuck to kill make him a pain in the ass. It is a living hell to fight hamelin if you took the wrong list, so if your opponent declares outcasts take some fucking blasts, pulses or at the very least some min 3 damage. From The Shadows, slingshots or snipers is helpful against hamelin so you can try and kill parts of his rat engine to slow it down before you have 2-3 rat kings chewing on your schemes. Ultimately hamelin is going to fuck your ass if you try and fight his crew in melee, rat catchers will ignore you and use dont mind me to do schemes, rat kings will keep spawning and throwing themselves at you and he will probably have killjoy, ashes and dust or something along those lines to help make sure of it. My strategy against hamelin is to shoot his little fucks to death.
>>55174789
She had very minor use i guess when she came out but yeah she's kind of dead weight now. Summoners don't need a "replaces itself" model and ressurs are mostly into summoning, summoning that wants to use those high crows! Its really sad to compare her to serena bowman or big jake. I hope that the january errata will capitalize on the success and praise wyrd got for its lucius and ironsides changes and take a more aggressive stance to buffing old models that have fallen out of use.
>>55174871
Doubt it, warmahordes players arent dumb enough for TOS, its really too casual.

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>>55174704
>>55174723
It's really the best way to deal with it, yeah.

>>55174664
>stillborn gaem.

>>55174900
McMourning i can see (throw that injected chihuaha into the enemy team and watch em squirm thinking about bete or killjoy) but why Nico? He could do so much more with that high crow.

>>55174871
They will also be competing with CMONs ASOIAF. If a company hopes to attract lazy people who enjoy 'fantasy', it seems like CMON (and what will be considered GoT the miniatures game by most shitters) has them beat there.

>>55174910
>activation control (like all activation control caused purely by mass activations) is overrated
>>55174704
Ignore literally everything this guy says.

>>55174910
Thanks for the tips anon. I will try killing the rat engine pieces to keep myself afloat.

>>55174764
Honestly, I like Malifaux, but it never seemed to have a large enough players to safely bet on TOS. You need a large userbase to account for the number of people that won't care about it and just want to stick with the skirmiah game.

The chocie to make the rules watered down Malifaux is also a bit of an odd one. People that already play the game don't really need the rules simplified, and people that already play it are probably the target audience for TOS since they already like the setting and lore.

>>55174983
I am in the boat where there are actually a decent amount wanting to buy into TOS. I know that some people complain that Malifaux is too complicated, and this game seems to be made for them. It certainly isn't made for me however, as I find the complexity to be part of why Malifaux is so satisfying.

>>55174963
To be clear, this means killing them early, before it gets going. Thats why i talk about slingshots, snipers and from the shadows. The earlier you kill them the less they get out of it, but after its already spawned some rats or turned into a king you are on damage control, which isn't terrible but won't win you the game.
>>55174955
Activation Control is about making sure you can act without repercussions, taking 2 activations at the start of the turn with undamaged models is better than taking 3-4 at the end with damaged models with conditions etc against models that have had a chance to use their buffs. Mood Swing is even more powerful than this, allowing you to make sure a key enemy model cannot activate at the time it needs to. Not everything is best done at the end of a turn, its always better to do what you need when you need it. Activation control isn't bad, its just overrated compared to chains/mood and you are kidding yourself if you think otherwise.

>>55174929
Luckily it just needs a ten, not a ten crow. There should be less of noodles zombies milling around for her to pop out of.

Also she gives shooting protection, and didn't have hard to wound, so she can be an okay target for Nico's decay.

>>55175081
Fucking auto correct. This is what I get for trying to nerd out at the gym.

>>55175081
Shooting protection is nice, but sebastian and crooligans both do a decent job at that already and the carrion emissary can block LOS altogether pretty easily. In my opinion probably her scariest attribute is having + flip on an attack that can cause paralyze, but sadly its only to living models. Her peon thing would be a nice "tap a model to fuck its schemes/interference" if not for the fact it has a simple duel.

>>55175036
Activation control is about being -able- to to act last without repercussion, not forcing you to. The ability to drag your activations out until they need to active that one unit that would stop your plans is so immensely powerful I don't see how you could think chaining could ever compare to this degree. And yeah, you can activate important things early if you need to at which point everything else can set up for the next round with, again, very little room for counterplay.

Add to the massive extra AP which can be turned into either scheming, attacking or engaging, in turn costing your opponent more of their already precious little AP and resources compared to yours and you will find yourself snowballing against anyone who knows how to use their activations.

Anyone used Draugrs yet? Still haven't got mine and interested in their performance.
Want to have a kamikaze build, but depending on flips to summon and upgrade seems like a quick way to place yourself at the mercy of the gods.

>>55175199
I know you activation control gives you a choice, not an obligation but my point is that chaining lets you make those choices in more situations. Yes activating loads relevant models one after the other is powerful but in my opinion its outright better to be able to do two when its the perfect time. "Until end of turn" abilities are rife in malifaux and most are defensive, if the player you are playing against is any good they will prepare and whilst its not as good as real counterplay it dilutes the power of those massive end turn situations, being able to at any time unleash a combo is simply better than having to wait to do a combo or risk leaving yourself open to counterplay. Of course the best situation is to have both, but por que no los dos doesn't make for much of a discussion.

The massive extra AP isn't actually a staple of all activation control lists, even if it definitely is for hamelin and tara. You can have massive AP advantage without activation control using fast, models with "X expert", triggers for extra attacks, rapid fire/flurry or the use of paralyze/slow. A good example of this is levi, for whom the waifs don't provide much actual AP advantage despite their activation control, they basically have to just follow their anchors and hide behind cover. I agree AP advantage is important but its not an intrinsic feature of activation control.

>>55175199
I have to agree with >>55175358. I feel it's more about dictating the terms of your opponents activations since this must be evaluated within the context of strats and schemes. Simply having more activations doesn't guarantee your ability to deny your opponent, though it certainly helps.

>>55175334
Haven't used em but their sheer versatility makes taking one sound like a good bet simply because no matter what your opponent brings you get something out of your draugr.
In my opinion their biggest strength are those + flips they give out to the soulbound. Rafkin, Izamu, Archie, (who can throw the soulbound upgrade) Anna Lovelace, Valedictorian, Hanged, Rotten Belle or Madam Sybelle are all some simple and obvious ones, but true absolute terror exists in Datsu Bae being able to attack and denial of sanzu or adversary foes with ease or Jaakana Ubume having a 7 base + flip disengaging strike. Remember it can be used on out of faction models too, so sun quiang can run around with yan lo having two triggers to pick from and being a bitch to resist or killjoy causing your opponent to urinate vigorously. You ever feel like Nothing Beast needed a + Flip with Tara? BAM! Want Hanna to get a + flip to her cast copying (its an attack action) BAM! Johan! Lazarus! Take one with levi and give + flips to alyce or montresor, shit give + flips to ashes and fucking dust its not even a condition, just an upgrade! Hell with seamus you can give it to all the showgirls now so why not do that! Its probably one of the easiest ways to give + flips to attack for a bunch of models.

Though honestly i may have been overexcited about most of that, the realization of the whole "ashes and dust can get + to attack" thing actually gives levi a very brutal new trick since the upgrades trigger on death (which ashes and dust tends to do several times) and you don't even need to reattach it since it goes to the core.

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>>55174983
>>55175028
The decision to make it look a lot like Malifaux, but actually super easy, might work.
But at the moment it looks like it's complicated to outsiders ("it's basesd on Malifaux, that overly complex rules-fest") and boringly simplified to Malifaux players.

>>55175358
You are right about Accomplice/Companion, Mood Swings and defensive set-up being powerful, but Hamelin/Gremlin style activation control pretty much gives you crew-wide chain activation, and the opponent must either play hard defensive, limiting himself in opportunities to score VP or kill models, or allow you to execute a full wombocombo on whichever model you choose.

It is the scale of "chain activation" and reactivity that is the problem, not just the fact that you have more models.

>>55175416
>Simply having more activations doesn't guarantee your ability to deny your opponent, though it certainly helps.
I saw a guy at the flgs get beat on schemes 4-0 by basically some chaff and a pigapult.
Activating last to lock off VP is huge.

>>55175176
Yeah she's not awful, just sort out classed by other options.

>>55175416
in the last couple of GG docs, out activation has been a huge advantage. Less so in denying your opponent, more so in being able to complete your schemes without being denied.

>>55175633
I was initially hyped for AnD synergy, but think Draugr would have trouble keeping up. He also gives up defensive and offensive abilities until next activation. Would rather have him buffing the ranged and hulking out once they try to engage. All depends on terrain though.

>>55175668
Theres more nuance in this post so I think we largely agree, but here >>55175199 I assumed you were arguing more activations was better in every possible circumstance.
>>55175706
Haven't kept up with since gg16, thanks for the info.

>>55175920
>>55175633
I want to like them, but I kind of ball at the 8ss cost.

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>>55175973
Oh I'm a different geezer, that other chap's a right drongo, 'ey skipper?

To be fair to him I think he's just being reductive because it's a pain in the neck typing it all out in clear separate clauses, it's easier to just stram of conscious as the keyboard.

This >>55175706 is also very true, and is where the community obsession with it comes from - there were a ridiculous number of schemes that could be reliably blocked down to 1VP simply by holding one or two activations back to loiter near a scheme marker or push a key model in/out/all about of engagement.

Gremlins were awful for invalidating Claim Jump, Leave Your Mark, Accusation and Interference.

>>55175920
I love the HT play that they bring, along with some other Wave 5 models like Zipp and Asami. It makes the stat much more relevant beyond determining LOS.

>>55176711
I chalk it up to me being an out of date pleb.
>>55176299
Yea, going to have to see if positive flip to attacks is worth the cost. Though the versatility can hopefully do that.
>>55178614
I too like that they began to experiment more with stats. Bonepile is kind of a strange low level experimentation I hope goes well. Prospector is also an interesting, dare I say, subversion of cost.

How's Seamus looking, post-new upgrades? "Do You Know Who I Am?" seems a potent buff to his WP game, but I don't know if either makes up for his preexisting shortcomings.

Dumb question, but what sort of eyewear does McMourning have on? I assume they're for magnification or something.

>>55179737
Actually, they're similar to tanning booth eye-wear.

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>>55179787
That makes too much sense.

Hey anons quick ruling question, for Royal Indignations armor up ability, armor written on the card does not count for the armor being granted, true or false. So I could make all of my Autumn Knights Armor +2 instead of Armor +1 or is that stupid and wrong because Armor on the card is rules as written an ability not a condition. Especially considering that steel plates on union steamfitters is worded to prevent exactly what I'm describing

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>>55174949
Honestly they seem to be taking a different path with TOS than anything that CMON does. While CMON loves doing one and done Kickstarters and leaving the retailers high and dry, Wyrd said that the reason the TOS KS wasn't generous was because they wanted retailers to like them so they could have a longlasting game. It probably won't work because as you said, they have a ton of competition, but I can understand their reasoning.

Along with TOS material, I am glad to see that their regular artists do get around. Pic related is from the new Dark Eldar codex.

Did spoiler anon ever provide the fluff for The Jury and Kandara?

>>55151919
>ungrateful masses.
Leaker Anon here, checking in on the way to bed. The masses are nothing but grateful, and I love you all for it. Don't be shitting on Malifaux General anons, they're fucking great.

>>55181202
>Wyrd said that the reason the TOS KS wasn't generous was because they wanted retailers to like them so they could have a longlasting game
Your head in the sand or sumpthin'?
Thats the exact reason the ASOIAF campaign didn't have CMON's usual boatload of free exclusives. They instead offered some alternate sculpts and faction accessories which would still be obtainable through organized play. ToS is DoA.

>>55181440
They wrote that as a statement in one of the updates. And I haven't been keeping up with ASOIAF so I made a stupid assumption. If that is true then I may actually be more interested in CMON Kickstarters from now on.

>>55181466
On a followup note, I am happy to see that they were accepting late pledges for ASOIAF. CMON doesn't seem to be doing wrong by me with such a good deal for so many minis, unlike TOS's high prices which will ultimately stifle the game.

Can someone fill me in on what the TTB Penny Dreadfuls (And by that I mean the big ones, not the one shot ones) are like? Are they fairly open ended or railroady? Are the production values good, or is the art largely recycled? How would you say they do compared to premade adventures for other games? What do they generally play like?

>>55181539
I hope it's good honestly, having a wargame that isn't boring crunchwise is hard to find now that I've played Malifaux for a while. But I get that they're trying get a slightly different audience with TOS

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>>55181302
I salute your for your leaking, sir.
I'm just amazed someone would equate some anonymi's thanks to a $50 book in value.

>>55182230
TTB folks don't seem to frequent the MfxG too much, oddly.
That or the player base is really tiny.

>>55184311
If you're talking about TOS being interesting crunchwise, I'm not convinced.
The preview bits look pretty heavily simplified, and adding in a couple of condition tokens for extra resource managemnt does not equate - more stuff is not the same as depth.

Should i take fingers and merris in the same crew? I feel like it's too many points for scheming but someone suggested it to me.

>>55184889
Depends on the pool. Merris is better an accomplishing schemes around the periphery, fingers is better accomplishing schemes in the shit. If you need both, take both.

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>>55184889
I think Fingers is probably only worth the huge investment if it's a hard scheme-interact-y pool with centre-focused activity.
Like Headhunter with Search the Ruins, Show of Force, Accusation, Mark for Death, Dig Their Graves etc.

Otherwise you can get two or three activations out of the same points and probably get much the same work done.

Merris almost always seems to be worth her weight in gold for Breakthrough/LYM type stuff.

Heh, Fetid Strumpet's off spreading the good word.

"Asura Roten is OP!"

>>55185967
He's full retard. She's pretty great, but not op by a long shot.

She really does make me want to make a mindless zombie swarm though.

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>>55185967
>>55186370
The forums are a pit.

The idea of removing Mercenary from Burt had traction on the hilariously titled "if you were writting te next erratta" Gremlin subforum thread.
>The best way to fix Burt being OP is only we get him.


>>>55186370
>She really does make me want to make a mindless zombie swarm though.
This does kind of annoy me though.
"We recognise that high activation counts are a bit of a game problem, so we're going to try and take steps to fix that. Oh, and here's another Mindless Zombie generator for Ressurs."

>>55186587
I'd honestly just errata low ss cost things to have some sort of forced chain activation.

Although, outside of Hamlin, I don't think it's a big deal. The price of bringing a bunch of cool powerful 8ss+ pieces is getting out activated.

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>>55186908
There is a part of me that thinks that everyone knows that activation count is important, so turning up with fewer than 8 is obviously a bad idea.

But then Hamelin and Somer fuck that right out of the water with their bullshit, meaning anything under ten activations is too few, so I'm not exactly concrete on it.

Could someone give me a rundown on the various factions? I'm coming from 40k and I used to play a almost only mech tau list so if you can give me examples of ones that are similar that'd be great. Thanks

>>55187214
None of the factions have a single playstyle of lets say, ''stand back and shoot or loose''

Honestly, for once i'd recommend to just look at the 1d4chan article or PullMyFinger

>>55187214
The faction's are:
The lawful law enforcement
Necromancers
Unions and rebels
Crazy magic/demonic natives
And Outcasts that didn't fit in one of the above.

Since the game started they've added two new factions:
Hillbilly swamp Gremlins
And
Weaboo shit

That's the most basic overview, the masters within a faction do a lot to shape your crews' theme.

>>55187015
Even Somer do usually start off with more than 10.

>>55187616
>do
Doesn't

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>>55187616
Not the point I was making - he frequently gets above ten, so if you are playing Hamelin or Somer, it doesn't matter much if you bring six or eight activations because he will still get three or four uncontested activations end of turn.

Can I get a foockin explanation?
Some actions sat target model, some say target model in los, some say target model ignoring los.
The shit does the first mean? Why can't these fucks have consistent vocabulary? Am I just retarded??

>>55185622
>>55185588
The pool is:
Guard the stash
Leave your mark
Dig your graves
Hidden Trap
Undercover entourage
Show of force.

I know i'm going to be playing against outcasts (probably jack daw or parker).
Was thinking about playing zoraida and having merris do leave your mark and just taking undercover entourage on zoraida. Fingers would just be there to fuck with them from doing their scheme. Might drop fingers for the luchador

>>55188817
Yeah you're retarded

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>>55188817
Yeah, sorry bud, he's right.
You are retarded.
Try reading the rules.
Seriously, I'm constantly amazed at the rules questions that get asked that are answered by the rules.

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>>55188998
Fingers would be useful for blocking Dig markers and Hidden Trap if you keep your lads on teh centre-side of the Stashes.
But for that pool I think he's a bit too expensive for what he does for it.

>>55189220
>>55189260
i appreicate you honesty and am corrected

>>55189287
If markers are being dropped for dig their Graves it's almost certainly not from interact actions.

>recently try to get into Malifaux, buy models, but get swamped with work and don't have time to play.
>suddenly second edition

Sure glad I bought that rulebook

>>55189522
>suddenly second edition
Is it three years ago?

>>55189522
>suddenly second edition
nigga wat

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>>55189296
We say it out of love, we're glad you understand.

>>55189497
?

>>55189522
That's reel fukken swamped son, damn.
Still youg ot all that tasty fluff, and M2E is inarguably better than M1E by most accounts.

>>55181236
Doubt it, but i have the book so here goes. Jury used to be a field agent for the death marshals who used a magical talent to determine lies in order to locate ressur suspects. Lucius and the old governer general's rules and regulations were super annoying so she got assigned to basically being the death marshal's lawyer to make sure they were in compliance with the 90 billion rules. Old GG is dead, franco gives 0 fucks and lucius is irrelevant so she has gone back to field work.

Kandara is Banasuva's wife, she spent a thousand years looking for that god damn gada but couldn't find it then she found sandeep finally because sandeep was stupid enough to use banasuva's power more often than most and it called to her. Sandeep was like "uh i dont know how to free your husband totes for reals haha you believe me right?" and kandara basically joined him on a D&D quest to free banasuva. Now sandeep is sweating balls as he has a murderous fire spirit trying to escape his gada on one side and another murderous fire spirit that will probably go into a super murder rage if it ever stops believing he is doing everything in his power to research how to free Banasuva.

>>55184419
I forgot to buy the new TTB core rulebook so i haven't been playing lately. There are at least two TTB groups in my city. I dont think the playerbase is large, but thats probably more than 90% of rpgs.

>Someone on forums points out with gremlin crier + Aionus you can give a legion of fucking gremlins or piglets or whatever the fuck fast at basically no cost
FAST RECKLESS GREMLINS

Also on the subject of the activation bullshit i reckon its really overstated, but i reckon when they errata'd hamelin's rats they did it wrong. Rather than disable hiring them/activating them for non hamelin's they should have just given rat's in non nihilist crews (or even nihiliist crews) "this model cannot activate normally" and then given the rats companion. Bam.

>>55186587
The forums aren't that bad, there are plenty of dogshit players here too its just because they are anonymous we tend to forget about them.
I've found forums/thread to be pretty equal in both stupidity and brief bursts of genius.

>>55188817
You normally can only target things that you have Los to. Some abilities ignore this rule.

Do you guys use any third party models? I find it tough getting models that fit the scale and style, but I still love getting some alternatives.

>>55191613
I try to keep everything tournament legal, so no with one exception. Knuckleduster miniatures makes a totally not mechanical rider that is showgirl themed called Mechbiscuit and Magnetta I believe, that the local henchman just gave me after I became the only person to ever show interest in it, only for him to lament that he had to get rid of another one. They were apparently giving them out at Adepticon. The thing is surprisingly well cast, and thanks to CAD it has some fine features on its face. However the scale is off, with the figure being annoyingly smaller than a normal mechanical rider. I only syarted painting it because I felt obligated too after the guy gave it too me.

So no. Nothing else fits well as the proportions are too chunky and/or the scale is wrong. I would rather invest in the actual models so I am eligible for tournaments so I can get more free models.

>>55190813
>FAST RECKLESS GREMLINS
That does sound cool, but with the 21 s out dinner's it costs you come just buy seven normal Gremlins

>>55192344
>s out dinner's
ss
The fuck autocorrect.

>>55191613
Thinking about Nico, and I'm probably going to go third party for more mindless zombies

>>55191704
>I try to keep everything tournament legal, so no with one exception.
Tournaments around here don't enforce this, so it's not an ossue

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>>55191613
I absolutely do.

My Oxfordians are from the Roots of Magic(?) line, necause I think the ones in the Ironsides box look to shit and cartoony.
And there are a bunch of generic steampunk women with a variety of guns I use as Gunsmiths with Colette to hold theme.

Unlike >>55191704 I've never really had a problem with small differences in scale.
Some of the short 28mm stuff will look bad, and the too-obvious heroic scale will too, but a bit of height-adjusting basing usually sorts everything out.

>>55191704
Got any more info on this Mechrider?
The Knuckleduster Minis site I found only has cowboy and civil war pewters, no Mechbiscuit or Magnetta there or anywhere else on Google..

>>55192520
Apparently they haven't started selling her regularly yet, and only gave her out at Adepticon 2017 thus far. Their promo figure for Adepticon 2016 on the other hand has been up for sale for a while. You can check out the render for it on their news page I believe. As someone who occasionally runs foxhunt McCabe I am somewhat specific when it comes to my mounted models I suppose.

>>55192344
Its more for somer or ulix who can summon models to take advantage of it.

>>55192520
>>55191704
>no Mechbiscuit or Magnetta there or anywhere else on Google.
Same here. Gonna leave us high and dry?

>>55190735

Thanks. Sandeep really brings it on himself.

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>>55193604
See
>>55192925
They will probably put it up for sale eventually.

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>>55190735
>Sandeep's situation
Man that's fucking funny. I thought he was a smart dude?

>>55193838
Smart and wise are two different things.

Sandeep's arrogance and temper brings it all on himself.

With the shooting scheme markers upgrade is Perdita okay into non-killy scheme pools now?

>>55197404
It definitely helps.
I'll take just about any excuse not to take Nellie.

>>55193838
>?
He's read a bunch of books, still a stupid fucking asshole.

>Muh activation control!
>2017
>Not just blasting rats, bayou grems and everything else the fuck off the board
>But muh Nix!
>Not killing Nix ASAP

ishygddt.

I'm selling my Brewmaster - I've played several games with him, and felt no fun with this game.
I'm looking on two masters, based on their theme, and hoping it will work well.
I want to grab either Sandeep to soothe my autism with avatar-like playstyle with all kinds of elementals, or wait untill black friday to grab whole set for Crazy-Cat-Lady Hammelin.

What to do?

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>>55190735
That's an absolutely brilliant bit of fluff.

I'm almost a fan of Sandeep now just because impostor characters entertain me.

>>55192925
>>55193762
Cheers bud.

While looking around I found Copper Min Miniatures that did a pretty decent mechanical horse that I was interested in.
They closed due to health reasons triggered by a stressful kickstarter a couple of months ago.
Bugger.

Gaps between miniature parts are killing me.

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>>55200348
Yuuuuuup.
There are some bits that arejust awful.

Excess liquid polycement or liquid greenstuff.

>>55189625
Using interact actions to drop scheme markers for dig their Graves is supper inefficent. The only times it would be done are in 10T where Yu can move them forward, Arcanist where a mannequin can get them 6" away, and a guild Lucius list. Other than that the scheme either isn't taken or they have a way to drop scheme markers without interacting.

Does this game have interesting lore? And if so, how often does new stuff get put out and how do you read it?

>>55201493
As far as I know, most of Masters know each aother or met at some point. A lot of stuff is in rulebooks, and Wyrd site have plenty of vids and podcasts.

>>55201493
There's a yearly book that drives the story forward, then there's the Chronicles which are bi-monthly and give more world building type stories.

Kudra of any real value to McMourning? I know she does a bit of Poison, but she does lose all her Gamin tricks which seemed her bigger draw.

>>55199795
If Brewmaster didn't do anything for you I'm not sure Hamelin will, as they are the two most autistic masters in the game.

Pick Sandeep because he's stupidly strong. I get that you want to use Hamelin or Brewmaster to give someone else a shitty time, but you can still do that with Sandeep and it wont be as boring for yourself.

Apart from that, what playstyle do you actually like?

>>55202308
If you want to just dump a bucket worth of poison on something you're probably better off just using rancid transplant with Doug.

>>55201809
>>55202243
So is this something you can dig into fpr the lore and world? This stuff is really important to me in a game, because I love to read and speculate about settings and characters, and I need enough material to carve out the niche for My Dudes (I know Malifaux is character dependant, but I tend to just make My Dudes and use rules that fit them thematically)

>>55202625
Wyrd also produces an RPG: Through the breach. The books extensively cover the setting and are full of lore. They don't offer a whole lot of info about the masters themselves though.

>>55202689
Sounds good to me. Characters are important, but I'm no fan of 100% character driven settings.
So, website podcasts and vids, the RPG and Chronicles as sources?

>>55202758
Yes, and the m2e rule books.

>>55202308
>>55202553
Debt to the Guild might make her an interesting consideration. Ultimately perhaps too gimmicky tho.

>>55202814
Are the older books not canon anymore, or do the newer ones have the same stuff plus additional canon? In short, I'm not missing out on any infos because they didn't reprint it?

>>55202758
I also wasn't a fan of character driven settings when I got in to this game, but it grew on me.

The games masters do have a reasonable amount of character, but most of them are still pretty bare bones, so it's easy enough to imagine what YOU would think they would be like and put your own spin on them.

As for the 'your dudes' part, most of the games minions + enforcer models are faceless grunts so you've got plenty of room to give them their own stories if you're in to that kind of thing. I've got a few minions that have their own character now due to things that have happened in games. A narrative campaign is a good way to play as well if you want your models to gain lives of their own as they find items, get injured and accomplish feats in game.

>>55202837
the 1st ed books are still canon, they are a must read if you want the entire story from start to finish. The stories in the m2e books are a continuation of the tales in the 1st ed books. The story has spanned something like 7 years in game time.

>>55202837
The older books are still very much canon, and amthe stories in those books are not repeated in the M2E books. Not sure why that anon specified just the M2E books

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>>55202908
Wasn't specific on purpose, it's late at night for me and I just forgot that the 1st ed books were a thing.

>>55200448
Liquid greenstuff is good at everything except what it is made for. You are better off with Tamiya extra thin cement.

>>55203120

Mr. Putty is also really good at removing gaps.

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>>55201376
I was thinking in the context of Performers with Colette, but even so, there are certainly schemes that are harder than doing Dig that way.
Writing thescheme off onsuch a hard line seems a bit rash to me.
Are there that many things which drop Scheme Markers outside of Interacts?

>>55202308
I don't think her Poison angle is worth consideration.
Infact, her lame min damagebarely makes the 4 attacks on charge worthwhile, other than to bump her effective average damage per charge up into the realm of 'ok'.
I guess she'd be a reasonable scheme runner-hunter though - if sheonly needs to land two of four attacks, that's a lot of cards your opponent has to use to stop them landing.

What kinda stuff does Guild McMourning like, aside from his new upgrade's hires?

>>55204928
I don't know I've only ever run him in Ressers.

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>>55204928
I've faced him with support from Grimwell and two Hunters.
.Very. fast crew, total fucking nightmare to deal with.
Francisco was also there because it was Guild.
Can't really remember what else, I'm afraid.

>>55205188
>Very. fast crew,
With scalpel slinging, and possibly push from poison, McMourning can be crazy fast

>>55202899
>>55202908
I'm guessing these are hard to track down nowadays and I'll pretty much have to read them up as PDFs?
I'm also guessing that Wyrd isn't planning to put out an anthology to get everyone interested up to speed

>>55205458
The Breachside Broadcast goes through all the book stories, and I'm pretty sure is up to sometime early m2e now. But yes, physical copies will be hard to come by.

>>55205458
I've got all the first Ed books, but I agree an anthology we be great.

>>55197404
Yeah tht plus emissary giving her easy obeys and of course nino.

>>55202625
There is a podcast called tales from the breach that contains audio versions of the written stories

>>55204928
Douglas is my favorite master and i recently started playing him in guild extensively. I'll list things i have actually done first, then theories.
>Sebastian + Zombie Chihuahua
Unless you are taking no models other than doug that do poison these are auto include. Even then the chihuahua is probably auto take for its cheap activation.
>Witchling Stalker + Nurse
The stalker can cleanse paralyze from your model after a nurse heal or downers but leave the 2 armor.
>Executioner or Witchling Thrall
Doug's ability to hand out precise to one of these and inject them up the field lets them tear things to pieces. I prefer the executioner but the Thrall can get a free attack from the scheme marker placed by Inject.
>Clockwork Traps/Pathfinder
Doug can use "On the order of the governor's secretary, i love saying that!" or injection to make a clockwork trap place scheme markers. Watching your opponent's face when doug orders a clockwork trap to claim a squat marker, place a scheme or distract somebody is fucking hilarious.
>Guild Lawyers
These macho men walk fast (6 wk!) whilst handing out hard to wound to your crew and poisoning enemy models. Not a must have but still a good choice.
>Fransisco Ortega
Douglas has 5 df 5 wp fransico helps to solve that.
>The Judge/Exorcists
Douglas can make things count as undead, which makes these two into very deadly foes. Judge can take a 2/4/8 damage spread whilst Exorcists can potentially do an execute. Exorcists can also make things undead for judge or Douglas to abuse.
Now we get into theory.
>Domador De Cadaveres, Rotten Belle and Rougarou
POUNCETASTIC! Cojo could also let a rougarou tear things up and with access to hard to wound from lawyers plus doug's regen aura it would be a bitch to kill either.
>Mounted Guard
Mounted Guard provide two key things here, they provide mobility and they let you rescue doug. Doug tends to overextend a bit in his zeal to slay foes, a mounted guard can charge doug's target to pull his ass out.

>>55205345
If you can keep sebastian within 8 inches of him when he activates doug is the fastest master in the game, scoring two 5 inch pushes a turn plus multiple push into base contact whilst having a solid charge.
Why i say he is the fastest and not the viktoria slingshot or whatever is he does this all the time every turn, not once like gimmick parker or vik slingshots.

Interesting stuff on Doug, thanks

>>55207039
I have more info, but 2000 character post limit is a bitch. Do you have questions about specific strategies, opponents or models you would like to use? I can tell you this, Hunters are awful and you should never take them ever. They had their place, that place is dead and buried.

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>>55206926
>Watching your opponent's face when doug orders a clockwork trap to claim a squat marker,
With good reason.
There're a couple of corner interactions in the game that just plain don't make sense.

>>55207110
If the pathfinder can summon and move the traps at a distance Douglas can do it too!

>>55207110
Actually you know what, it makes perfect sense. Doug isn't ordering the trap to take the squat marker, he is ordering your foes to acknowledge his squatter's rights as he MUST have been there earlier and have claimed this land since he left a god damn bear trap there!

>>55207094

What do you think about Ryle or similar for Precise?

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>>55207313
Well fine, I've been lawyered.
I'd imagine the same logic applies to >>55207225. Not so much the 'Doug can do it', but that the Pathfinder can apparently conjure traps from thin ground.

>>55207456
Ryle sucks as a ranged model compared to what the guild has to offer and despite his mighty 3/5/7 spread i would almost always take an executioner over him, especially with the 1 action charge available to executioners. The Brutal Emissary is another good choice if what you are after is a beater to precise up, getting + flips against poison models and its 2/4/6 with constant free attacks against other nearby models is solid.
>>55207549
I think the pathfinder's idea is he has them with him and throws them, not conjures them. Remember they are clockwork traps, not bear traps. Perhaps there is a button on the side that when it is pushed activates a spring or something to move it, he probably shoots that button with a dart or something.

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>>55207775
I meant "here's one I laid earlier" rather than magically conjure.
You don't summon them so much as have a baddie find them by stepping on htem.
But you're right, I think he's actually supposed to be carrying them.

Sort of related note - are Pathfinders good?
I barely ever see them talked about.

>>55207850
I like using them in conjunction with Bettari. You can summon a trap to immediately have Bettari move up to it, which can be useful to get her in position to wreck face.

>>55207850
Pathfinders are a little squishy, but people seriously underestimate what df 6 6 wounds is worth, since it means you can cheat to save them way more easily against anything base 5 and few base 5 and 6 things will end up at a straight.
Considering how cheap traps are and it only takes them a 6 of tomes to get more plus they bring card cycling they are great if you are willing to hire a trap, then summon another. If they focus then shoot someone engaged with a trap thats a base six that on a severe does 5 damage plus FOUR on the blast marker, a very good amount for their cost, plus you can ignore armor and hard to wound or give out slow. They aren't an every game model but they are no slouch and tossing around traps whilst providing easily accessable card draw and a solid attack makes them worth it to me.

Also worth noting that they are guardsmen so if they are near someone allison dade can fuck em up and he has synergy with dashel for + flips and 0 action focus. Speaking of dashel, dashel and wardens can be annoying, with him giving the warden focus and a + flip to its shoot it has 3 cards in which to try and get that ram for the paralyze. Queeg's peacebringer is no slouch either with access to dashel and since dashel lets models take focus as a 0 action every time queeg walks he can give somebody a focus! Wardens have + to focus, making them probably the best choice for this.

>>55207013
Yeah. It's harder to keep his poison topped off that way though.

Kinda want to get into guild McMourning for plastic surgery + domador obeys

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>>55207970
Presumably she has a Wlecome to Malifaux-type ability?

Aside from that sort of thing, what purpose do they serve?

Last time I saw their card, it looked like they had an acceptable Sh and Ml action and could summon the Traps, which were as much a minor annoyance as anything.

>>55208160
Guild McMorning has definitely become a more appetizing choice with Book 5, which is nice too see with people generally focusing on poison. I will definitely grab him to go along with McCabe.

>>55208160
Yeah, sounds spooky.
>>55208186
You know that new ressur upgrade that lets you push into contact with newly summoned models? She has that on her card.
The traps can be more than a minor annoyance. Dedicated melee models being unable to charge and wasting an ap or two on them is one thing, but the real problem is scheme runners cant kill them and have to risk disengaging trikes so they can leave and do their schemes and ranged models usually have low wk to make the slow duel scary plus they have few options to take out the trap.

If a pathfinder resets his trap six inches into say a lazarus, oxfordian mage or something like that it really fucks them over. The Pathfinder can then kill them really easily because he will be shooting at base six and ignoring armor/htw if necessary or pinging slow.
>>55208303
Guild McMourning was always secretly good, its just that book 3 made people try it more often. The release of the emmissary, grimwell's lot and the witchling thrall made guild doug seem more appealing. Probably my favorite pre wave 3 guild doug list (the only one i played) was dougdita. Take Abuela, Nino, Fransisco and Santiago plus whatever, marry doug into the family and pretend you are perdita! Santiago can fire on francisco and doug with no fears whilst fransico keeps doug safe with that fancy el mayor, meanwhile abuela does abuela things and nino shuts down schemes.

Oh also a weird thing i have found is that people in guild for some reason don't always take samael hopkins. To me he's fucking amazing. Witch Hunt is basically a death sentence to anything using cover, so it tends to force the opponent not to use cover, but i can understand if 2ss feels steep. Even without that he deals out tons of damage against anything you give a slight tap with burning or even without it does damage on par with say santiago etc. The real beauty though is to have doug push him up the board so he can deliever that - to DF duels AOE. Its a fucking 8 inch pulse of pass or die pretty much and if you do it twice your opponent will probably lose his whole hand.

>>55208449
>dougdita
McPerdita does sound swank. I feel like there are some fun modelling opportunities too. If nothing else sucking sombreros on him and the zombie Chihuahua.

>>55208536
As a non guild player, he looks like a beast to me too. I'm surprised he doesn't get more love, especially with how solid witchings are even outside of Sonia lists.

I see Sam usually considered garbage, at least on the forums

>>55208536
>>55208636
These posts make me want to make McCrid and McJustice versions to

>>55208536
>>55208778
Looking at his card I think the biggest problem is probably walk 4 charge 5.

He does seem like he'd be great with a swarm of witchlings though. A 4/5/6 ignore los and cover gun should execute models pet efficiently.

>>55208636
To my understanding there are two reasons he gets left behind. The first is obvious, he doesn't have great defensive abilities for his cost, but considering he's a henchman so he can just stone and he is in the faction that has guardians, lawyers, mounted guard, access to nurses through doug, sidir's by your side and if anyone in the crew takes by your side melee casters like nothing beast literally cant touch him who cares? Hell with hoffman you can now give him permenant armor as a cyborg.

The second is that he gets much better with burning which guild obviously isnt the best at unless you bring sonnia's crew. Still most guild players do bring a witchling stalker and the addition of the sanctioned spellcaster effectively fixed the "no good generic burner" problem.(witchling handlers are great for burning but are generally garbage)

I think the best way to use sam is with Sonnia (obviously) Hoffman or now finally Douglas. Douglas can bring out the dawn serpent for a very easy burning (sh7's a bitch) and hoff can have the rail golem burn everybody pretty easily. Shit hoffman is better with the rail golem than any actual arcanist.
If all else fails sue and the freikorps specialist exist too.

The big thing is that there aren't many burny models, but the ones that do exist like witchling stalker are actually good enough so who cares?
>>55208948
This is why i reccomend him with doug, because injection or using a nurse's uppers for his first turn can get him into some nice cover. Besides that point he usually doesn't need to ever mvoe again if he takes a double walk first turn. 14 inches from board edge should get him into some nice cover and he doesn't need LOS to burning anyway. Nellie can abuse him with fast and mercless specialist (nellie loves the freikorps specialist because she can have her totem attack her to give her evidence but slow her, then the specialist remove the slow).

>>55208816
Doug loves the judge and exorcists plus poison keeps on ticking whilst you are buried.
Doug loves witchling stalkers i guess but taking the orderlies, heartsbane and grimwell gives him witch hunters that feel super thematic.
>>55208778
We don't have 40ks playerbase where every strategy has been tried and understood within a few months of a model's release. Guild Doug was considered strictly worse until wave 3 despite wave 3 not actually giving him that many new tools, its just that people had dismissed him out of hand. That doesn't mean the forums are always wrong, just that sometimes its just that most players have not experienced what can make a certain model shine. For example i almost always took montresor every game and then he got double buffed. Its amazing to me people look at Burt and go "holy shit thats bullshit" but then avoid Monty like the plague. -1 wp aura is devestating, 7 on a severe or a paralyze vs base contact foes is brutal, nimble really helps him shit on people no matter where they hide. I used to run him with loco for + to damage and just snipe people. Plus if VS ripped his shirt off whilst comfort in fear was up the enemy would usually lose the game right then and there, having his crew make horror checks at -1 and take damage for passing it.

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>>55208536
This is pretty interesting, I don't think I've ever heard a good work said about Samael Hopkins, but clearly reasoned justifications for why are just as thin on the ground.

>>55209138
>Just that people had dismissed him out of hand.
I think it's pretty understandable, losing free canines remains and Abra cadaver are pretty big. Doublely so when he loses access to some models that really like poison, when he goes guild. You have to look at him in a totally different light.

Which reminds me, canine remains are beasts. Taking four of them and four guild hounds might make for a fun doggo list.

So what wave 5 TT models will be seeing play and when/why will they?

>>55209469
Lotus eater or crime boss for protection money but doubt it would be both, obsidian construct will definitely see some play in varied crews, tanuki might see play with brewmaster to give the whiskey golem reactivate (remember to teracotta running tab into that new 2ss upgrade) and charm warders... i dont know they have all sorts of stuff going on.
Gwyneth is going to be in every lynch crew.