Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

>>55142200
Warcraft is dead, time travel killed it.

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>>55142200
Reminder that the Lich King is dead and WoW died with him.

>>55142200
Okay, so, in the Warcraft rpg the Furbolg Ursa Warrior prestige class has Dual Weapon Fighting as a prerequisite feat, and its 2nd level feature saysyour penalties when fighting with only your claws are reduced to -0.
But Furbolgs can naturally attack with both claws in the same turn at no penalty. What the fuck?

>>55143410
>D&D rip off game is retarded
M8, D&D's retardation doesn't fix warcraft's into a double negative.

Alright /tg/

After Legion, somehow there's timeline shenanigans and Azeroth is reverted back in time back to the Second War.

What do you guys change going forward ?

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>>55142200
I followed WoW pretty dutifully for a long time up until fairly recently. It's just got too much shit, way too much jumping around in the plot over the last 10 years. Decent fantasy goes into the shitter with directionless expansions that don't add anything long-term story benefits: Pandaria (cool art, just kind of wasted time) + WoD are the worst offenders in this regard. 0 lasting characters from the former, AU Gul'dan as an unexpected and kind of unwelcome plot device from the latter...

I don't know how I could be made to care again. It seems confused about itself.

As an RPG: When you start to consider Warcraft from an IC lens instead of a video game one, you can pretty quickly realize that there isn't actually a whole lot of room in the world for people who aren't explicitly aligned with red or blue. It is a /total war/, has been for a while despite occasional ceasefires. You'd be best off doing south seas one-offs.

>>55143396
Reminder that in an alternate dimension Arthas estabilished a human kingdom in Kalimdor with Jaina and didn't purged stratholme.

>>55144537
>As an RPG: When you start to consider Warcraft from an IC lens instead of a video game one, you can pretty quickly realize that there isn't actually a whole lot of room in the world for people who aren't explicitly aligned with red or blue. It is a /total war/, has been for a while despite occasional ceasefires. You'd be best off doing south seas one-offs.
>not wanting to do a Argent Crusade campaign in Northrend
>not wanting to do a game about an expeditionary force going throughout land
>not wanting to do game about a big game hunters in Stranglethorn but get roped into Troll bullshit

There's a few things you could do outside of Red and Blue. Just gotta be a little creative

>>55144596
The most interesting thing I played (DM'd in a private phase) was pirates, and that ended up being mostly freeform with very little to do with Warcraft other than the races. It was fun, yeah, the trick is just getting as far away from the actual 'plot' of the setting as possible.

Putting together a Warcraft campaign. See the below post for the details.

>>55142091

>>55143396
goddamn you arthacucks are the worst

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>>55142200
Still think either a Miniature game could work, but this will probably work only with a 3D printing service instead of selling the minis themselves (so the players can make their characters).

>>55143339
>time travel killed it
Just one of the coffin's nails.

I like the part where orcs built red dragon breeding stables

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>>55144469
Alliance stays together in case something like the Old Horde happens again.

Alexstrasza is actually angry with the Orcs for a while and has to wrestle with this.

Someone else is in charge after SCOURGE instead of the Plot Device Designed Solely to Drive the Blood Elves Out of the Alliance (PDDSDBEOA). Have the aftermath of Lordaeron's fall be Varian's first test as king, actually USE his childhood friendship with Arthas.

Make Thrall a better judge of character, able to recognize when the people around him are being idiots.

Either make Sylvanas more sympathetic (give her actual morals, especially in life) or have her see some form of comeuppance. Maybe make Sylvanas an actual "mini-LK" to the Forsaken to better justify her obsession with staying alive - if she dies, the Forsaken will immediately fall back under the Scourge's control. Their freedom DEPENDS on her survival.

The fates of Turalyon and Alleria are completely unknown this time. Khadgar and Arator don't just "know" they're alive.

Antonidas is smart enough to run this time.

Work Pandaren into the story far earlier. I like those guys, but I can see how people who didn't play the Rexxar missions in WCIII would have a problem with them showing up "out of nowhere."

The Night Elves STAY savage, and go neither Alliance nor Horde.

>>55147961
Also the stupid draenai space ship crashes a couple miles to the west and they all fucking drown

>>55148007
I never said that, anon.

I'm not sure what to do with the Great Eredar Retcon.

On the one hand, I have no personal grievances against the Draenei. On the other hand, they need a more unique role in the story. To that end, I think I have SOMETHING. It's probably not great, but it's something.

That thing where all the Draenei NPC's were born on Argus? That doesn't happen. Make the Exodus of the Draenei a truly generational affair.

In this timeline, Maraad could be the overall military commander of the remaining Draenei, with Romuul having his old place - and Velen's successor might be chosen from among the people.

VELEN IS DEAD. He sold his life dearly, but the Prophet is DEAD, and so are all the windchimes they had, and now his people have to not only adapt to a new world, but do so WITHOUT him. They must face all the drawbacks of a people who are losing their ability to maintain their technology, losing the generation who knows why they ran - causing some internal strife - and most importantly, they have to learn how to figure things out for themselves again instead of having a clairvoyant and a bunch of angel crystals telling them what to do.

This gives them a reason to learn from and interact with the races of Azeroth far more often, and to accept Nobundo more easily - they're not going home, they need all the help they can get because the time when everyone knew exactly what to do is OVER.

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>>55147961
>The Night Elves STAY savage, and go neither Alliance nor Horde

THIS

FOR GOD'S SAKE, THIS

>>55144469
Give Orgrim a mag'har kid so there's we have a trio of kids living in dad's shadow. Make Orgrim jr a warmonger that wants to prove himself in battle like dad while Garrosh acts more like his intial self I'm BC and is constantly afraid of making his father's mistakes

>>55148129
Er, some things I forgot.

Either Ishanah or a toned-down Yrel could be the new Spiritual Liege, but there will never again be a Prophet.

Most of the NPC's you'd meet would have been born on Draenor this time, and the elders would all look that way.

Draenei could stay independent due to needing all the help they can get - resulting in what little of their tech can be both salvaged and explained spreading to both factions. The Gnomes and Goblins start using that crystal stuff in their machines, with the Gnomes being more successful due to not blowing up all the crystals.

Come to think of it, make the Draenei be more clearly "alien." Those crystals power power armor that is CLEARLY power armor. They have mechs, they have hovercraft - but they're running out of people who know how to make it due to sheer attrition.

>>55147961
If Night Elves stayed savaged would be the vanilla races in WoW?

>>55148129
>On the one hand, I have no personal grievances against the Draenei. On the other hand, they need a more unique role in the story. To that end, I think I have SOMETHING. It's probably not great, but it's something

>Take out "Draenei and add them back in as Broken.
They came in small communities as slaves to the orcs and soul batteries for fel.
They are currently Living in the swamp of Sarrows with the other even more curropt version of the Drainei there.
They are unsteady allies with the Humans and Dwarves that freed them from slavery and are working toward building a civilization to guard the dark portal on their own.

>>55148242
I think Vanilla would be

>Alliance: Humans, Gnomes, Dwarves, with nonplayable but prominent High Elf NPC's
>Horde: Orcs, Trolls, Tauren, with nonplayable but prominent Ogre NPC's

Later, you could add, assuming everyone I've said stays independent does so:

>alt!BC: Horde gets playable Ogres, Alliance gets playable High Elves
>alt!WotLK/alt!Cata: not sure - Horde COULD get living Nerubians, Alliance COULD get free-but-flesh-cursed Anubisaths
>alt!MoP: Wandering Isle Pandaren reveal Pandaria to outsiders, saying "hey, we're going to rediscover our roots, anyone wanna come join us?" - Alliance get a breakaway Mogu group and Horde get Saurok

Subraces would also be a thing, and MAYBE keep the Paladin/Shaman divide. Play up the "Alliance races are Titan-related" thing, too.

>>55146173
The old UDE one was pretty fuckin neato. Sadly, the designers encouraged shitty environments for booster pushing.

>>55148325
That's also a very good option. Not my personal cup of tea (mostly I like a lot of the current Draenei aesthetic), but that's a definite way of working them more deeply into Azeroth and avoiding the Big Retcon.

Aside from playing through Warcraft 1-3, what are some good options for learning Warcraft lore before WoW?

>>55148644
They are pumping out these Chronicle books that are the "official" WoW history that are a decent read.
Unfortunately it Retcons a bunch of the best parts of the lore to facilitate the cluster fuck that is wow lore.

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>>55142200
>Is Maiev insane or is she right edition

Neither, she's horny for some Illicock.

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>>55147961
I like these. I think a good way to make Sylvanas more sympathetic would be to have her interact with people more like Vereesa (as Alleria was MIA) and other people that she cares about.

>>55145973
Actually interested in this. looks to be a well made conversion. I'll have to check my schedule

>>55148704
What do they retcon? I actually saw them in a Chapter's the other day and thought about getting them.

>>55143339
>Warcraft is dead, time travel CORRUPTED it.

ftfy

>>55142200

A question to the lorebruls of this thread;
I wish to fluff my character been born and raised in a human tribe in stranglethorn, is that possible?

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>>55149653

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>>55148743
Who isn't?

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>>55151660
Fixed.

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OldCraft best craft.

>>55147961
This stuff is all nice but almost all of it is for after the third war, Anon asked specifically for the Second War.

>>55148332
Wait, why Ogres and not Goblins? Or Nerubians but not Goblins? Why even consider Pandaria in this alternate universe?

Also one of the central problems, I feel, for WoW is that there are 2 factions and not 3. There should've been Night Elf Females, Night Elf Males (that's right, gender stratification, just as their culture dictates) and Dryads/Keepers originally with possibly classic Draenei and Pandaren added later.

Scourge and Forsaken remain distinctly NONPLAYABLE and ENEMIES because the alternative is a shitstorm of undeath apologists. The way to deal with damn death metal spikeheads/vampire necrophiliac fangirls is to not give them a damn inch in the first place.

>>55150521
It's possible. It's on the eastern kingdoms so it's not too far out there. Something you have to think about single they dealt with all the harsh animals and trolls because Strangelthorn would be brutal for humans

>>55144563
Wrong. Purging Stratholme was Arthas' only choice. Abandonning Startholme would've only resulted in more death and snowballing the scourge into an unstoppable force more than ever. Pursuing Mal'Ganis was what turned Arthas into the Lich King. If Uther and Jaina hadn't abandonned him he wouldn't have had to claim Frostmourne.

>>55150521
Knowing the geography in Stranglethorn, that feels like it'd be tricky. Humans don't really live in jungles if they can help it and there's plenty of room not to. Northern Stranglethorn in particular is the epicentre of a Troll civilization and they're the reason humans live in castled towns in the first place.

>>55152194
>Wait, why Ogres and not Goblins?
Ogres were part of the original Horde, so it might make sense for them to stick together.

That said, the orcs and ogres actually hate each other so I doubt they'd team up if the ogres got an opportunity to fuck off.

>>55152194
>Wait, why Ogres and not Goblins? Or Nerubians but not Goblins?
>Timeline to fix the clusterfuck of lore
>Still want to make one of the biggest and most powerful neutral factions that they had horde aligned again.

>>55150521
Humans have no meaningful settlements in Stranglethorn Vale.

He could be a pirate kid though; they make a lot of use of Stranglethorn's coast.

>>55152479
Goblins aren't a unified force dude, there are some Goblins on their own while the majority are neutral.
By contrast, Nerubians with the Horde makes so little sense I can't even begin, as for Ogres:

>>55152470
Exactly. Ogres in the Horde is like Vrykul in the Alliance. It made sense in Warcraft 2 when they were essentially enslaved, but the Horde is all about freedom now.

>>55152565
>on their own
Meant
>with the Horde.

>>55152221
>>55152349
>>55152487

From yes to no, I'll go with the oprhan from booty bay then, since pirates are done to death here and I don't want a damn pirate accent
In before she doesn't have a choice,
and Bell from Booty Bay is not what I had in mind, but that'll be it I suppose

>>55152565
>Nerubians with the Horde makes so little sense I can't even begin
>Old Kalimdor race
>Enslaved under old gods
>Even specifically said to be one of the few insect races to not like serving the the old gods
>Enslave under Litch king

It is literally fitting the original poster child requirements for why the horde was formed.
As for ogre even if they dislike the horde en mass, there is still the whole tribe of mok'nathal.
Saying there are a minority of goblins with the horde while the majority are neutral doesn't get rid of the fact it is stupid to make a heavy neutral race have a character available in one faction not to mention if you are so for freedom of the horde what do goblins even have to be free from? The steam wheel cartel and Venture Co. let them do pretty much anything that makes money.

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>>55152628
Nerubians were driven back to Northrend before the events of Warcraft 3, and were dying long before then. By the time of the Undead campaign in WC3 they're almost all converted into undead. You'd have an easier time pushing centaur as a playable race and they absolutely despise other species.

>As for ogre even if they dislike the horde en mass, there is still the whole tribe of mok'nathal.
Oh wow. One whole single village of bastard rape children. Yes, this is definitely the argument you should be making when asserting reasons for something to be included as a core race.

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>>55152681
Literally read the original post? They aren't core races they are expansion races for time points when their homes would be in the center of attention.
And having a race that is canonically part of the horde, and not just one tribe but any of a specific mix and their family, is about as easy as one almost dead village of a specific tribe of trolls now making up a third the fighting force of the horde.

>>55152628
Enslaved? The Nerubians were SPAWNED by the Old Gods. They're the manifestation of their decay left alive even after the Old Gods were sealed by the titans. They renounced the Old Gods much, much later, but they would never fit with the Horde by their very nature.

>>55147961
If there's no Alliance on Kalimdor, how do Alliance players get to Ahn'qiraj? Same with Horde and Zul'Gurub.

>>55147961
Yeah, Sylvanas needs to be less of an amoral asswipe, maybe be way into freeing other undead from the Scourge's control, not so she can rule them but so they can be independent like her. Of course, most people don't want their recently zombified relations to just come rolling up, so the Forsaken is where they can stay.
Hell, maybe that's why the Horde accepts them, because they respect their attempt at emancipation.

I've also always thought it'd be neat if Sylvanas claimed to be the Queen of Lordaeron. She is technically Arthas' direct offspring.

>>55152941
Boats owned by neutral parties like the Steamwheedle Cartel. Furthermore without crossing borders Horde and Alliance might just not be at war all the time.

>>55153077
>She is technically Arthas' offspring.
Only if you buy into the stupid "raising dead is how we procreate" meme that's been thrown around ever since Cataclysm.
The Sylvanas you described was a real thing up untill after Wrath, when she got what she wanted, essentially, and then went total evil rather than just an ends justify the means type. The problem still remained that she was holding a large part of Lordaeron for the sake of a "race" that should by all rights be in their fucking graves in any rational fantasy setting. And of course when everything went to shit all the Sylvanas apologists came out to defend "pragmatism" and "survival of the race" and a bunch of other fanboy nonsense. If that's the end result it would've been fucking wise to not let them into the Horde in the first place, because it's so obvious they're not a true, honorable Horde race it actually hurts.

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>>55153077
>She is technically Arthas' offspring
Please no. There is no way you can call her in anyway an offspring of Arthas or the Lich King. That just doesn't make any sense, as >>55153245 said it's just a stupid undead Cata meme.

>Queen of Lordaeron.
The Kingdom of Lordaeron isn't a thing anymore there is no more king or queen of it. it's the undercity now and Sylvanas is the leader but she didn't reform it and crown herself, she is just the leader of the forsaken.

>>55143396
The Lich King was not even fucking good. Arthas was, but Arthas as we know him died with the Frozen Throne. The Lich King is some generic evil overlord with nothing special about him.

>>55148242
Factions were a mistake.

>>55153245
>"race" that should by all rights be in their fucking graves in any rational fantasy setting.
>Sentient race capable of good whose primary goal is to destroy the primary source of all other undead in the setting.
>Should be in their graves
>What

>>55152194
>There should've been Nelf Females, Nelf Males

So like, if Nelf female and male count as separate races with distinct class options, the different "gender" option should let Nelf males choose to be either like the faggy males in the game right now or manly man Druid of the Claw types. As for females I guess an option between the elongated weirdos in the game now or actual amazon elf women.

>>55153986
That idle animation - you know, THAT ONE - is the perfect example of everything that went wrong with night elves.

>>55153929
Well their primary goal is done, time to move on, back to your cemetary corpsefag.
What's that? You don't wanna go? You fear genocide? You're afraid you can't procreate? You're going to slaughter the living and kill turn them into your own brand of undead? You're gonna become the very thing you sought to destroy because the grave is too icky?
Yeah, shut the fuck up.

>>55154015
The Scourge isn't destroyed or gone it's simply inactive right now because of Bovar taking the crown as Lich King, he's keeping the Scourge from running over Azeroth killing everyone. Sylvanas and the Forsaken had to momentarily turn their attention to the Legion as that the threat with the most priority right now.

>>55154115
Are you implying Southshore was a secret Cult of the Damned base

>>55154132
Not really though it would make sense for at least a few residents of Southshore to have been or be associated with the Cult of the Damned in someway.

>>55154132
The campaign in Cataclysm was done under Garrosh's orders. Sylvanas wouldn't have even fucked with Gilneas if not for him. Nevermind that Southshore and Tarren Mill have a history of conflict from Vanilla with no clear moral upright actor. If you have a problem with it, take it up with the orcs and the writing team. As for genocide? Yeah, if I just helped knock off the Lich King and people wanted my race to go back to bed now, I'd be a little pissed too.

>>55154132
He's not implying anything, he doesn't know the lore.
Bolvar contains the Scourge's forces and manages the current Death Knights. What he doesn't do is run the Cult of the Damned, which is an enemy of the current Death Knights, the Alliance and the Horde. Conspiciously during the battle for Andorhal, where the Horde and Alliance were fighting each other as well as a Scourge Lich, Sylvanas actively punished Horde's Death Knight commander Koltira for working with Alliance Death Knight commander Thassarian because of a temporary cease fire to deal with the Scourge first.
But it's impressive how many people actively forget lore involving the Forsaken. It's almost like it's stuff you'd associate with a villain NPC race rather than a playable faction.

>>55154223
Get it through your thick head: you can't genocide corpses. The Forsaken are a people in name only. Sylvanas committed suicide after killing Arthas and but then Knaak Mary Sued her back and with a vengeance. They should be DEAD and BURIED. Nobody wants to be a corpse, especially not in the Warcraft setting, it's a misguided fantasy that should never be enabled! When Aragorn called for the fucking Oathbreakers he let them go to their peace when their job was done! It's over! Dead men don't fucking walk!

>>55154359
I can if they're sentient, capable of moral action, and have no desire to be. You're making an apples to oranges comparison here. The Forsaken aren't mindless, nor are they interested in their final slumber now that they've completed their task. They have as much right to exist as any other race in the setting by the sheer fact that they continue to do so in the face of their enemies. The Forsaken embody the prevailing ethos of the Horde as well as any of its other core races, you're just assblasted because you don't like the zombies running around.

>>55154359
>When you try to prove a point in one setting with an example from a completely different setting

>>55145973
tried to add the discord but didn't work. I'm interested in playing.

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>>55142200
>>55124270
Oh hey, Warcraft threads. Haven't seen these in a wh-
>Warcraft went to shit with [expansion/game after I got into it], how do we retcon this?
>Garithosposting
>I want Warcraft to be more like Hearthstone, SO WACKY XD
>PURGE
>did Illidan and Maiev fuck yet
>X did nothing wrong
>X was a mistake
Sigh.

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>>55155655
Lets discuss quel thalas
Wonder what it would have been like to live there after the second war.

>>55155655
>I want Warcraft to be more like Hearthstone, SO WACKY XD
Wait, there are no people that say that here, right? I mean you have to be 18+ to post, right?

>>55155911
Do you realize what board you are on?

>>55155911
Mean Streets of Gadgetzan is literally the most interesting use of Warcraft lore in over a decade.

The whimsical and funny elements of Warcraft are pretty much the only things that make it worth a shit.

>>55156020
Underage b&!

>>55155655
These things get off topic pretty fast but sometimes there's some decent discussion.

Also if Blizzard ever redid their RPG what would you like to see in it? What would you like to not see in it?

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Daily Reminder that goblins lives in a complete libertarian society and it's perfectly fine.

It must be fine, the great prince Gallywinx pay me to say so.

>>55156730
Something closer to Warcraft's setting mechanically, particularly in class design.

>>55156730
I just want quantum computers to become a thing and for Blizzard to hire Toady, then use his genius to make an advanced Starcraft RPG where whatever insane coding the man does for Dwarf Fortress determines the entire world of character and their stats out of a selection of things like social skills, likes, dislikes, voice actor, genetic abnormalities, powers, cybernetics, then lets you play one of them in some colony. Think Dwarf Fortress Adventure Mode but with Blizzards graphics, cinematics, budget, quantum computers. Then I don't know, get Brian Kindregan and some of the other better writers back and write a story for it that the code somehow converges to help it make sense as well.
I don't know, basically what I want seems technologically impossible but I had a dream about being an amoeba whose generational evolution eventually resulted in one of the people boarded on the original 4 super carriers and I have since wanted to explore that idea in a game where EVERYONE was super detailed randomly generated including myself.
Does this make sense to anyone?

>>55157078
Put yourself in cry stasis, then give yourself some cybernetic modifications. You will have ensured one way trip to Koprulu sector that way.

>>55152101
Fuck off Kossak you necrophiliac bastard.

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>Velen starts to agree with Illidone that Naaru are not perfect, and that one needs balance of Light and Shadow

>>55157408
This seems like a storyline that was already handled better by the Arrakoa quests in WoD (One of its few good parts.)

>>55157613
Some needs time to learn lessons.

>>55157336
No, you don't understand! I don't want to be in Koprulu, I want to play an RPG as a randomly generated character in a randomly worldgenerated Koprulu that still conforms to a well written story because of hard-core coding and quantum computing with no cost in detail, graphics, quality or depth!

>>55156946
That's fair. The power level in Warcraft compared to a usual rpg setting is a lot higher so being able to bring that up to get that Warcraft feel would be awesome.

>>55157078
I think I get what you're trying to say. You basically want sci-fi Dwarf Fortress. Not sure if this is the thread for you then.

>>55158440
No, because Dwarf Fortress doesn't have any plot. Anon asked what kind of RPG I would like to see from Blizzard and I just want it to be impossible to achieve with current computing power and programming, because you'd have to program the game to make random generated High Budget cinematics, random generated voice acting, random generated storytelling all set in the Starcraft universe. Also, if the lore starts sucking you can just reboot the world! But the very best thing about it is if you do it right it'd be a game you'd never stop playing and noone would need MMO's anymore because random generated super realistic detailed NPC's are better than real people you meet on the internet anyway.

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>>55155655
Mean Streets of Gadgetzan actually did some plot progress outside of Area Currently Used In This Expansion, which makes sense, as years passed since Cataclysm, so expansion of Gadgetzan is something that would happen.

>>55155655
>>did Illidan and Maiev fuck yet
They really should

What if the horde had won the second war like in the Warcraft 2 campaign?

>>55159828
Pretty sure last thread an anon thought Illidan was Maiev's prison bitch

>>55159858
His tears said no, but his boner said yes.

>>55159835
That would require Gul'dan to not betray his Legion masters back then and help Orgrim do the thing.
Then Gul'dan would gain the power of the Eye of Sargeras, and likely the Jeweled Scepter of Sargeras, without any problem.
And Legion would win, as Gul'dan would open them the way to Azeroth right afterwards.

>>55159569
It's not really plot progression, though. It's just "Gadgetzan is huge now, because we want to do gangster jokes". It has zero continuity with the rest of the setting aside from a Noggenfogger cameo, and the factions don't have anything to do with the actual area. It's just a big genre reference, and they didn't even manage to stick with it for all the factions. The Kabal is just a generic mage cult, and the Lotus is little more than "here's some Pandaria stuff".

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>>55160964
>Kabal is generic mage cult
>Creating red mana that increases potency of magic and potions
>Leader may or may not be a Nightmare Dragon
>Parts of a strange Ethereal are used to bind potions to make them more stable

>Lotus is just Pandaria stuff
>Leader is gathering Jade to create golem war machines powered by a soul of long forgotten Mogu king

The only faction that is relatively generic is the mafia one.

>>55160964
As is often the case with Warcraft lore, these days especially, it was an interesting idea with what I'd say was lackluster execution.

Is Turalyon an Alt-Light weeb who writes for Lightbart news?

>>55161543
>generic mafia just wants to be organized crime
>only "police" presence in Gadgetzan is a crazy undead Gnome
>Paladins back generic mafia because otherwise nobody will be able to stop Kun and Kazakus - Han'Cho is the least of three evils

You know what, I'll take it.

>>55161843
>Uses Draenei/Eredar phrases
>Fanatically loyal to a Windchime, despite the fact said Windchime imprisoned his wife for having a bit too much contact with Void powers against Windchime's wishes
>Wanted to kill guy who shattered said Windchime when it tried to enforce Light transformation on him
Yup, definitely alt-Light

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>>55161950
>Bain's defense of Garrosh started trend of Tauren law defenders
>Night Elf reporters and investigators
Sure, maybe it all started as a joke HS expansion, but it's a joke with interesting potential.

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>>55160964
>It has zero continuity with the rest of the setting aside from a Noggenfogger cameo

>Wanting known guys, which are usually busy fighting the Biggest Threat Right Now (TM) to be relevant in Gadgetzan
>Not seeing why a city with sudden shoreline, and managed by goblins, relatively far from any major city, would expand and have influx of people from other populations, continents, and worlds

The warcraft threads seem to die and come back to life a lot, why not try the weekend thread format like the TES guys?

>>55162245
Patch came out in Tuesday/Wendesday, which is why those threads happened suddenly.

>>55162377
Ah right.

>>55161843
>>55162101
>t. Xal'atath

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>>55162703
>From my point of view, it's the Naaru that are evil.

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>Lightborne are now a thing
>It should be technically possible to infuse an Elemental with the power of Light, just like there are Elementals that are Fel infused
>Thus Ragnaros the Lightlord could be possible, even if it will never happen
LIVE INSECT!

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>>55163059
>Imma just force myself on this guy, it's totally cool bro, he was asking for it

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>Naaru are descendants of Naaru Primes
>Elune seems to be a being of a grade above Naaru Prime, as Tear of Elune could be used to make contact with Xe'ra in place of her descendant
>Tear of Elune is a Pillar of Creation
>Night Elves at first believed that Elune sleeps inside the Well of Eternity
>Well of Eternity could be used to establish contact with beings from other worlds
>Initial Elves were worshipping both Loa and Elune
>Some Elves are born with eyes glowing with Light
>Illidan and Azshara are known examples
What if Elune is actually Light equivalent of Void Lords and wants a Titan for herself?
Then again, how Titan powers works? Aman'thul, the first of them, had powers over Time (inherited by Nozdormu), apparently Light (given to Odyn), and elements too, among many. Are Titans potentially capable of using any kind of magic?

>Some people on Tumblr still think Sylvanas and Alleria will have some kind of tearful hugging reunion
>Even after Vereesa has already gotten to her first
This is gonna be a shit show when Blizzard drops that bomb, isn't it?

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>>55144563
Lies, he hooked up with Sylvanas.

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>>55164140

>>55155655
warcraft went to shit in BC when you stopped visiting azaroth and started affecting it

>>55164140
Man, new lore about Elune is just plain retardation.

Hinting her as a snowflake Light-Lord or something is senseless and lazy.

>>55152285
>>55164483
>they didn't read War Crimes

It's the same timeline where Blackmoore conquered Lordaeron with a slave-army of Orcs, led by Thrall. No Scourge present, unlike anon's original >implication.

There's also the timeline where Jaina flooded Orgrimmar (and probably all of Kalimdor, including the parts that belonged to NElves oops), which sparked a world war in which almost everyone died, driving Kalec insane.

There's the timeline where Varian straight-up died and babby Anduin had to rule Stormwind alone.

There's the timeline where Baine killed Garrosh and became Warchief.

And then there's the one where nobody actually knows what happened, just that it was "very bad" and whatever it was made that Vol'jin evilcrazymurder.

>>55164560
Elune has been hinted as something special (or at least something other than what the NE think she is) for about as long as Elune has been around in the lore.

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>>55164581
>reading subpar trash novels.

>>55164581
>And then there's the one where nobody actually knows what happened, just that it was "very bad" and whatever it was made that Vol'jin evilcrazymurder.
That was normal Vol'jin, just from a few weeks in the future. Trolls take 'casual Friday' very seriously.

>>55164581
And the time line that removed WOW and sired warcraft 4

>>55164594
Special as in a very powerful Loa-like entity, not a transdimensional primordial alien being.

>>55162160
I want to main a Nelf Lawyer next expac.

>>55164619
Might have been the universe where the PCs died in the garrosh raid so Vol'jin called in a buncha voodoo contracts and went crazy

>>55164693
>Vol'jin! How are we supposed to defeat Hellscream now?
>I got friends on da udda side, Thrall. Don' you worry 'bout ol' Vol'jin.

>>55164622
By this point the only way to have Warcraft related RTS would be prequel-timed RTS.
>Aqir vs Trolls
>War of Three Hammers
>Orc conquest of Draenor under Gul'dan's influene
>Orcs vs Ogres
>War of the Ancients from other races perspective (like Vrykul)
>Elementals vs Aqir and N'raqi
>War between initial Scourge and Nerubians
>War of the Shifting Sands
By now there is nearly no way of having RTS that would continue the story,

>>55164715
just make a new time line with bronze dragon flight or just do it without a reason, blizzard has never cared about pissing off fans and if they are done milking wow fags then their opinion doesnt matter anyway

>>55164715
How would something like the fight against the Void Lords not work in an RTS?

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I don't have anything important to say beyond how much I like Broken.
I love their design, I love their clothing, their 'classes', their architecture, but I especially love how they're always living in broken or destroyed worlds and at times even thriving in certain instances.

I love, love, love, seeing when or where Blizzard uses them.
I'd love to steal them if I didn't respect the fact that it's one if not the only really 'original' and 'good' races they have.
They're WAY more fucking interesting than the Draenei themselves at least- I'd resub to Wow if I could play as one.

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>>55164951
There are a lot of races I'd prefer to play as than what we have

>>55165002
I unironically like Jinyu. Finally, an aquatic race with a decently interesting ability that isn't evil and isn't mrglrlgrlgl.

>>55164951
Patrician taste, my friend. I'd love to play as a freelance broken thug trying to eke out a living on Outland in a BC campaign.

>>55165002
>>55165019
Stop reminding me of cool races that'll never matter again. Fucking jinyu especially. Why the hell were they just dropped after Jade Forest?

>>55164665
Velen comparing Elune to a Naaru and suggesting they might be one in the same is from 2011, so I don't exactly know what constitutes "new lore" for you.

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>>55165388
>2011
Speculation about Elune being a Naaru actually dates before Wolfheart. At that time, people still mixed headcanon with actual canon, before Chronicles bricking the window for good, so the idea made sense from the beginning.

But appears that Blizzard, instead of just confirming the suspicions, dialed it to eleven, so now Elune is hinted to be not only a Naaru, but a uber-Naaru. This is what I complained about on >>55164560.

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>Being okay with Elune being a mere Naaru

>>55166296
>>Being okay with Elune being a mere Naaru
This isn't demeaning at all.

If not for WoW-mechanics, Naaru were meant to be eldritch god-like beings.

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>>55162219
I don't want the Alliance or the Horde stomping around, if that's what you think. What I meant is, they didn't include a single thing or character from either Gadgetzan or Tanaris (or the surrounding areas) aside from Noggenfogger. Where are the Farraki trolls, or the Southsea pirates, or the bronze dragons, or the Wastewander bandits, or even the silithid?

It really just feels like the design process went like:
>I wanna do gangster stuff, where can we do that?
>I dunno, some goblin place?
>Yeah whatever, just pick one of the names on the list

>>55147961

>The Night Elves STAY savage, and go neither Alliance nor Horde.

I got mad triggered when they were w/ the Alliance for no fucking reason.

>>55155655
b-but hating elves makes me so cool lmao

>>55167447
then you didn't pay attention to warcraft III and frozen throne

The night elves joined the alliance for After the battle of hyjal there was no reason to be enemies, the orcs had attacked there sacred forest, to get wood, they had killed many night elfs and drank demonblood in order to succed in it, so they saw how they used demon-blood in order to kill their demi-god a trusted and good friend of the Night elves, so it was like some have said, the enemy of my enemy is my friend, humans have not wronged them, only helped them, and Night elves prefer alliances and friendship over war, if the orcs had stopped chopping in ashenvale, said sorry and all, they could most likely been allied as well, since the night elf is good friends with taurens.

So what is the veredict on illidan's new ide about mcnuking xe'era?
His first smart decision or another Illidan (TM) retard moment?

>>55168173
I feel like it's both smart and retarded

>>55168173
It's retarded because,
Illidan has always been about getting more power to stop the legion at any cost not just being self made and fucked up by fel.
If there was even a small chance the light would make him more powerful to kill demons he'd have taken it.

It's smart because a large part of his current military might is only in it because they believe in him and all he as done, if he took the light he loses their faith and military power detracting from his overall demon killing potential. So while it is against the classic Illidan mind set it is still within a reasonable estimation of his character.

Both these points don't matter though because it will invariably be show that the Naaru was in some way evil or slightly corrupt because you can't shatter a definitive force of the light and not get an entire quest line of DINDU.

>>55152628
Moknatal aren't ogres...

There is a horde or he tribe after the tft bonus campaign: the stonemaul.

>>55152941
The latter is easy: make them having links to the southern trolls.

>>55167672
You realize that demon blood thing happened before hyal and thrall cleaned house?

Warcraft was so much more fun before WoW. Back then it was all about fusing Moorcock and GRRM, what an amazing setting, seriously. The shit happening now with time travel and alternative universes is just dumb.

I AM MY SCARS!

>>55169179
Even in WoW that shit really didn't start until about Cata. There were the Caverns of Time, but even then you were typically getting flung back at the behest of the dragons to stop other assholes from making the time streams run incorrectly.

>>55143339
Wait are you saying that Burning Crusade killed Warcraft or Warlords?

>>55168173
Maiev is the only one allowed to bind him and force her will on him.

He did good.

>>55164951
I like that Krokun of Argus have visible differences from the ones from Draenor. Fel-green eyes, hints of using Shadow magic instead of Elements (Draenor Broken) or implications for Druidic magic (Lost Ones in Zangarmarch).

>>55169657
I think he means WoD, as before that it were not having any effect on the game, just making sure that events happen as they should, instead of alternative timeline stabilized with special magic (instead of collapsing after a short time).

>>55169537
There were a few cracks before that, particularly the draenei retcon (which I'm kind of willing to forgive, if only because I think the new draenei are a genuinely interesting race). I think Wrath is where you really started to notice it, though. Garrosh turning into a hotheaded moron and the Warsong becoming genocidal to the point of suicide towards the Alliance, the almost complete scrapping of Nerub, Malygos turning evil just so they could have a filler raid (at least Illidan had always been shady, and had a reason for his breakdown), Dalaran suddenly being fine and flying, the fact that they couldn't keep with the canon of its very tie-in book, the entire nonsense with the Argent Tournament, Tirion turning into Highlord Awesomelight Superman Cooldude McWarhammer, "there must always be a Lich King"...

I mean, I enjoyed it at the time, and it did have good ideas as well, but in hindsight Wrath was bloody stupid.

Cataclysm was almost pure dogshit, though.

>>55169735
>the fact that they couldn't keep with the canon of its very tie-in book
Could you remind me what you mean here? I admit to mostly forget it.
>Garrosh turning into a hotheaded moron
Garrosh was always hating those that are not them, as shown by the ending of questline that started with An Impotent Leader, where Garrosh was mostly against alliance with Lantresor's Ogre's and immediately rejected "trinkets" Lantresor gave as a symbol of their alliance.
Maybe Thrall should have first tell Garrosh what Grom fucked up in Kalimdor, before he told him what he did right when he killed Mannoroth at the cost of his own life.

That being said, scrapping of proper Azjol-Nerub and making Malygos suddenly too sane and deciding that magic users must all die makes little sense.

>>55169735
>Malygos turning evil
If you read the quest text then you would know that he had his reasons to turn "evil", part of his job really.
>>55169791
>Could you remind me what you mean here?
The Arthas book that came out around that time.

>>55169791
>scrapping of proper Azjol-Nerub
Is unforgivable*
And then they scrapped Abyssal Maw, despite having zone actually made, all because some of the WoW staff was moved to "Project Titan", which may or may not have ended up being Overwatch.

>>55169813
>The Arthas book that came out around that time.
Oh, I know that, but I am not entirely sure what was not keeping with the book in the Wrath.
Though Arthas' journey to undeath starting with his horse dying was pretty retarded.

>>55169735
I was just speaking about the time travel in specific. Wrath was full of dumb shit, even if the setting of Northrend itself was cool as hell. I just ignored the novels except where I absolutely had to. There were clearly issues with internal communication at Blizzard, because they outright contradict the game at several points. Honestly I don't get why people draw the line at the RTSes specifically, though. I think Vanilla still really had that old flavor and a great sense of adventure to it, though that might be a lot of nostalgia talking. Burning Crusade, for all my complaints about how the Illidari were handled, was really fun sci-fantasy.

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>>55169834
Remember that ghost kid in Icecrown that turned out to be part of Arthas' soul? In the book Arthas destroyed him (as well as the remnant of Ner'zhul) before the Scourge Invasion even began.

>>55169813
I know Malygos had a reason, but the reason was bollocks and contrived. Especially since his plans for the Leylines stood a good chance of giving Azeroth its greatest buggering since the Sundering.

>>55166943
Its homogenization. Just like class mechanics, homogenizing lore is lazy.

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>>55143396
If warcraft died with wrath then day one of argus was the profane reanimation of its rotting carcass and the enslavement of dead flesh to a new and hideous purpose. I have no fucks left after watching illidan first one-shot a narru, casually block turalyion bleach-style and then walk away without so much as a whisper's protest.
>B-but xe'ra was literally hitler!
Yes, she was. That however does not excuse, justify or make the story any less broken
>well what would you have done faggot?
Easy. The pair destroy one another. I could tolerate the massive power gap between the pair if we lost them both at once
>pic related, what happened

>>55163946
>sometimes the hand of fate must be forced
>opens giant portal into sky of azeroth, potentially dooming the planet should legionfall fail
>pls dont force me into this cruel fate ms. windchime
I mean
I really fucking hope we get to kill his fel-infused ass some day

>>55164483
who is that fluid druid

>>55170255
Nobody. don't give the fucking meme attention...

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>>55170255
Heroes of the storm gave Jaina a Dreadlord skin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jInzG9Ukrk

>>55170495
>abs
>thicc
dear god
and people still say the joining the legion isn't the obvious choice

>>55169838
Vanilla WoW is quite good because aside from some gameplay-related changes (mainly making NElves Alliance and Forsaken Horde because they couldn't do a 4-faction system) doesn't hugely retcon things from how they ended in WC3, and also doesn't make the players king motherfucker of asskicker hill yet. For most of the game your character is a random adventuer/mercenary, ultimately graduating to elite adventurer/mercenary. The only previously established important lore character players canonically kill in Vanilla (not counting that you can form a raid to attack other faction cities and kill their faction leaders) is Kel'thuzard, and even he is a) just a high-ranking minion of the Lich King b) a lich, so unsuprisingly he didn't stay dead for very long.

I'd say Vanilla actually makes the best time for a campaign, because the RTS games are so heavily tied with specific historical events that the players would have quite limited freedom on what to do. In Vanilla on the other hand you've got a situation where the great war has recently ended, both Alliance and Horde are rebuilding and consolidating their positions, and you've got a largely unexplored continent with plenty of locations and resources both factions would want to claim for themselves, as well as numerous threats of varying level that the factions don't have enough resources to stamp out at the moment, leaving a demand for adventurers, mercenaries, and explorers.

>>55170236
>I have no fucks left after watching illidan first one-shot a narru
Which were shown to be hilariously easy to kill, just look at how O'ro was one shot by a regular Fel Reaver, right after Velen healed it to full health
>casually block turalyion bleach-style
I guess you missed his green blood flowing from his hand
>and then walk away without so much as a whisper's protest.
Velen already had doubts about Naaru, but didn't lost faith and decided to order gathering Xe'ra's pieces. Alleria had no reason to be happy about Xe'ra, and Turalyon just got his faith shaken when Illidan was done with Illidindu crap.

>>55170241
>Kil'jeaden just got killed
>Illidan simply kept the portal they used to return to Azeroth open
>Implying that attacking the Legion with its pants down isn't the best moment
Xe'ra was simply going for making Illidan into something he is not.
After all, she could easily decide to try to recruit any other Night Elf that was born with golden eyes, but that limits her to Azshara from the only other known options.

>>55169179
Moorcock is all about alternative universes and time travel though.

>>55148704
Don't worry bro, Chronicles vol. 3 hasn't come out yet and vol. 1 is already at least partially retconned away by newest WoW content.

>>55171043
Can you give an example?

>>55163551
Elementals are already infused with Light. That's what makes them Elementals, instead of rocks and campfires and puddles.

>>55164594
>>55164560

The Patch 7.3 content involving the Titan Eonar seems to be strongly suggesting that she was Elune all along.

>>55171098
Nah man, that's Spirit, not Light. Spirit's all about natural life, and all of it. Draenor had a ton of Spirit initially, and the overgrowth of plants and fungus nearly choked the planet before Sargeras' buddy showed up and dropped some arcane mountains in to fight it.
Chronicle Vol. 2 was some good stuff when it came to explaining Draenor's pre-history.

>>55171097
Demons no longer naturally reincarnate in the Nether, it's a power given to them by Sargeras by harnessing the world-soul of Argus. (So why did he imprison them instead of destroying them all in the first place when he was still working with the Pantheon? Who knows!) Destroying Argus will apparently make all demons mortal.

When Sargeras destroyed the Pantheon their souls were captured by the Legion instead of escaping to try and land in the Keepers on Azeroth. And Aggramar didn't actually die.

>>55168757
You do realize that it is better to ally with
>distant, more stable faction that has your distant kin in it.
than joining
>closer, far more aggressive faction that actually killed your demigod and is harvesting your sacred forest?

>>55171197
Demons do still respawn, it's just that Argus lets them do it incredibly faster than they naturally do. And the Pantheon DID throw parts of their souls to Azeroth, it's just that Sargeras contained most of it and what did land in the Watchers didn't effect most of them, only Ra-den who got really fucking depressed when he realized what it all meant.

>>55171159
Spirit is what drives natural life, and encourages the elementals to live together in harmony instead of fighting each other like they do on Azeroth.

When the Light and Void exploded each other at the beginning of creation, the largest fragments of Light scattered through the material realm became World-Souls, the smallest animated Elementals, and the in-between fragments coalesced together into Naaru.

>>55171247
Shit dude, I just want giant living mountains fighting huge Godzilla plants. If the Light's behind that then all the better.

>>55171197
Both demons being able to respawn from the beginning and Argus helping with their ability to respawn are true. When questioned about this, Blizzard has gone on record that one doesn't replace the other, but that we're free to speculate how they fit together. In other words, it's not a retcon, because there's no old lore being replaced by new lore; we just don't have the full picture yet.

>>55171233
The problem is that Chronicle Vol. 1 states multiple times that Sargeras had no idea about Norgannon's last gambit to fling their spirits to Azeroth, nor that only a portion of their spirits made it there. It is very explicit about Sargeras thinking they were dead with the destruction of their physical forms.

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>>55163059
Nah. You're misunderstanding the Void.
>Wow, seriously? The Naaru believe in good and evil? Haha. What idiots.

>>55171758
>*burp*
>THE NAARU ARE EVIL MORTY

>>55171901
How can they be evil if evil's just some delusional bullshit the Naaru made up?

>>55160964
>>55160964
>"Gadgetzan is huge now, because we want to do gangster jokes"
Or because y'know WoW's always been a miniaturized themepark of the actual world.

>>55159835
>>55160398
The WC2 campaign has Doomhammer beat both Gul'dan and the Alliance.

Personally I devised my own idea for that with Dalaran fleeing with refugees to Northrend, the Highelves hiding behind their magic wall and Orgrim doing his best to keep things from turning into a total slaughter without making it all collapse in on itself.

>>55171901
You're so very close with this, considering how many Void corrupted beings say "there is no Light". Your mistake is in thinking they'd classify their adversaries in moral terms. It's as Benedictus said.

>>55172164
>*burp*
>THE NAARU ARE ASSHOLES, MORTY!
>>55172290
The real reason was that Noggenfogger capitalized on Gadgetzan becoming a port town after the Cataclysm, and the trade made it possible for the city to be massively expanded.

>>55172374
>The real reason was that Noggenfogger capitalized on Gadgetzan becoming a port town after the Cataclysm, and the trade made it possible for the city to be massively expanded.
It's kinda funny how little blizzard understands about the required depth and shelter to actually be a port.


It was definitely always much bigger than in the game, don't let the disgracefully game-screenshot map in the Jaina book fool you.

>>55162377
Also, i started the revival via the last thread, because Argus invasion, and i knew how much you'd love hearing the preachy windchime got fucked.

>>55172374
>>THE NAARU ARE ASSHOLES, MORTY!
That's it. That's the Void right there.

>>55169735
>at least Illidan had always been shady, and had a reason for his breakdown
Theoretically yes, practically no. The reason given for him becoming a raid boss was just "lol he's insane nao because he's angry he lost to Arthas". It could've been something better like "Illidan believes any method no matter how evil, is justified if it helps him defeat the Legion, which leads him to do terrible, genocidal things" but nope we just get "mummy Arfas bweat me :(".

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>>55169179
>The shit happening now with time travel and alternative universes is just dumb.
Yup.
Unless you are Dr. Who, or something else where time travel is central to the storyline, you never add that stuff to your setting, cuz it's gonna turn everything into a clusterfuck.

>>55173026
A lot of the timeline weirdness in that picture is just the result of older expansion content being out of date.
Every expansion takes chronologically place after the previous one, so if you made a level 1 character in Wrath, you'd effectively do a few yar timeskip when moving from vanilla to TBC and TBC to Wrath content. Which is still reasonable enough, aside from the weird decision of making death knight not start at the minimum level for Wrath conent, forcing them to play through content that chronologically happened before your PC broke off from the Scourge's control.
The Cataclysm came and screwed that up by making level 1 - 60 content take place thronologically after level 60 - 80 content, but at the same time as 80 - 90 content.

It's only gotten worse since then. Make a level 1 Horde PC now and se how many times your warchief changes during levelling. You start level 1 - 60 quests mentioning Garrosh as the warchief, and him appearing as the warchief in some quests, despite him not being present in Orgrimmar. Then at 60 - 80 Thrall is the warchief and Garrosh first depressed guy in Outland and then a military commander in Northrend. Then he's back to being the warchief for levels 80 - 90, except he turns evil at some poitn towards the tail end of MoP content, then Vol'jin becomes warchief and remains so during your stay at alt Draenor from level 90 - 100, and then Sylvanas becomes warchief from level 100 content onward (which you would also see while levelling between 1 - 60 and 80 - 85 if you visited Undercity, despite all the quests still saying Garrosh is the warchief).

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>>55172290
>>55172374
You're getting bogged down on a single detail. It's not the size that's the main issue with MSOG, it's that it's got literally nothing to do with Gadgetzan itself. It could have been the Mean Streets of Ratchet, or Everlook, or Bilgewater Harbor, or even Goldshire, and you wouldn't notice any difference at all. Aside from Noggenfogger there are only three canon cards in the entire set (Wrathion, Madam Goya and Hobart Grapplehammer), none of whom have any connections to Gadgetzan.

Why the fuck do people defend the Horde? They are clearly Chaotic Evil at worst, and Chaotic Neutral with Evil leanings, led by literally two, three at best, and currently zero Chaotic Good leaders.

Why do people defend literal invaders, occupiers, demon-consorters, genociders, kill-all-humans-ers, literal "let's create a plague that kills all life"-ers? Why do people defend the organization that, even if they didn't truly intend these acts, allow them to occur in the first place, not just once, but repeatedly, several times, nearly a dozen times? Like what the fuck? Any human civilization that pulled this shit in the real world would be fucking obliterated. The Nazis never got a second attempt, let alone half a dozen.

When's the last time you saw a human, by far the most evil Alliance race, manage to create a plague that wipes out all orcs? Compare the Scarlet Crusade to the "kill all living beings" extremist subsection of the Forsaken. Who is more Evil? Who is more of a threat?

The closest Evil equivalent to the Horde in the Alliance are the fucking Draenei, who are literal Lawful Good refugees who only lost their planet and millions of their race due to the same fucking demons that the Orcs willingly sided with. Not once, but TWICE.

>>55173684
>when you realize the Tauren, if not for their blood debt, would get along with the Alliance just fine

Being Tauren is suffering.

>>55173714
>blood debt

Sort of like how the orcs had a felblood feldebt to the fel Legion? Orcs confirmed for secretly demons.

>>55173760
>secretly

>>55173684
The Horde is a good boy, he dindu nuffin wrong

Anyone on /tg/ play on legacy servers? Are there any /tg/ guilds on legacy servers?

>>55173777
>when not glowing a malicious demonic green, the orcs natural skin color is brown
>like a NIGGER

Blizzard pls this is 2017 you can't be this racist anymoer

>>55170241

I really wanted to Xe'ra to say "sometimes the hand of destiny must be forced" when she was light-raping Illidan.

>>55173760
Well, more "the Orcs are the reason Tauren aren't extinct from CENTAURS" but honestly with everything they've suffered, Baine shouldn't owe the Horde anything.

Sylvanas has done nothing for the Tauren, and is probably an abomination in the eyes of the Earthmother.

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>when Gnomes are better at being Warriors than they are at being Warlocks

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>>55173784
Go back to your containment thread, tranny freak

>>55147961
Night elves are the most useless race in azeroth. And sylvanas isn't supposed to be nice, she's pissed off and wants vengeance, that's good mythology style writting.

>>55153774
ACTHUALY she calls herself the banshee queen. But I agree that she and all undead need to die eventually, there's no way the living would be cool with zombies and shit walking around

>>55174527
Only once her vengeance was done, she got so scared of going to Super-Hell that she's been damning everyone she can get her hands on to Super-Hell, tried to enslave what might as well be a goddess, and uses everyone around her as no more than meat shields.

>>55173684
Because not all horse are like that. I hate to bring /pol/ into the argument but we can't just wipe out all Muslims because a bunch of them are assholes

>>55154558
>capable of moral action

And yet all we see from them are immoral actions.

>>55174527
Most useless race is trolls.

>>55173684
Depends, some people defend the original ideas of the Horde before Kossak took them back to rampaging assholes mode.

Others are just edgelords.

Some just feel like they're an interesting bunch they would rather not see wiped out because it would reduce the potential for further stories.

>>55174581
The vengeance runs much deeper than that. Killing Arthas was just the first step, she's still undead and will never get to have a normal life. The way she acts is right out of various mythologies. A god gets screwed over and does everything in their power to make people miserable. Loom at Hera for example, instead of going after Zeus she punishes his illigitimate children instead. Instead of accepting the hand she was dealt sylvanas wants everyone else to suffer too, do you think tirion fordring would have done this?

>>55173684
I mean, there was the thing with the tidal wave.

Jaina's anger was legitimate, but as a mage not even two years after the Nexus War and dating a blue dragon... MAYBE think before you threaten to sink the entire continent of Kalimdor into the sea, including the giant tree?

I mean, you don't want to prove Malygos right, do you?

>>55174657
*Original idea of the New Horde.

>>55174651
Trolls are up there too but night elves have done nothing to help anything, with the exception of Illidan and malfurion

>>55174686
Wait what I missed this. Stopped playing legion a while back and never saw if Jaina returned. Was this her big plan? That's Fucking hilarious

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>>55174651
>Say dat to me face an' not on da spirit vision, see what happen mon

>>55154359
>Knaak
You mean Kossak.

Get your shit if you're gonna rant on the most boring overplayed topic in Warcraftery.
>>55174612
Because Kosak is a shitty writer obsessed with Red vs Blu like WC2 and his necro-waifu Sylvanus doing "Badass" warcrimes without comeuppance.

>>55174744
I fucking love dire trolls, and the trolls that can swap back and forth.

>>55174727
No, this was back towards Cata. The Tides of War novel. After the Horde nukes Theramore, she steals the magic ball they used to make the bomb and summons so many water elementals they make a giant tidal wave, then sends it at Orgrimmar.

Thrall summons the wind to stop it and Kalec goes "no Jaina don't be an Arthas" and tells her she'd kill an Alliance fleet and Varian too, so she uses it to save them instead.

Somehow, she missed that a wave that big would flood the entire continent, dealing more damage to it than Deathwing did. And that the Night Elves lived on the continent.

But speaking of Legion?

She's right next to you at the end of the Broken Shore scenario, right? And we know she can teleport multiple people across a large distance, she's done it before. But when the cutscene starts 5 seconds later, she's gone. Did she teleport out to turn off the oven she left on in Dalaran, only for Varian to die because she didn't port him out?

>>55174794
>Somehow, she missed that a wave that big would flood the entire continent, dealing more damage to it than Deathwing did. And that the Night Elves lived on the continent.
...What? It was a wave big enough to drown northern Durotar and maybe the rest of Durotar, nothing more than that.

>>55174794
>She's right next to you at the end of the Broken Shore scenario, right? And we know she can teleport multiple people across a large distance, she's done it before. But when the cutscene starts 5 seconds later, she's gone. Did she teleport out to turn off the oven she left on in Dalaran, only for Varian to die because she didn't port him out?
Shitty writers pulling a cop-out for their shitty attempts to raise the stakes so high things become boring.

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>>55173684
Why you gotta talk shit about Darkspears, mon?

>>55174794
Nah varian gave the order to fall back thinking that sylvanas had abandoned them on purpose. They couldn't see the horde get overwhelmed and voljin taken down because a cliff blocked the view, so all they saw was sylvanas and the valkyr take everyone away. Varian sacrafice himself so the alliance ship could escape, then Jaina disappeared during the aftermath after she got pissed at Anduin for not declaring war. Haven't seen her since but I stopped playing last January and a lot has happened since

>>55174087
But that's part of what makes them the comic relief race of the Alliance: it's hilarious when they fuck things up, including when it comes to summoning demons.
YOU FACE JARAXXUS, EREDAR LORD OF THE BURNING LEGION

>>55174684
No, Sylvanus is very much characterized by her fear of death right now, because she knows what's waiting for her on the other side. That's why, more than anything, she's pulling out all the stops to prevent her death, even if it may compromise any Horde war effort.

>>55174877
He's saying Jaina could have saved everyone with a teleport, but I'm sure if that's pointed out blizzard would just say that the giant portal to argus or the staging world or whatever was fucking up teleportation magic.

>>55174959
The fear of death has been somewhat ret conned, she's full on vengeance and power tripping now. You find out she brought Nathanos back because she loved him and just wanted to be a happy farmers wife with half elf kids. Arthas took all that away

>>55175060
I wouldn't call that retconned; I'd call that a natural progression of her state of mind.

>>55175052
100% of major tragic events could have been stopped by mass teleports.

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>>55175172
What about Azshara summoning the Burning Legion to Azeroth? She believed the only dick good enough for her in this universe was Sargeras's. I'm not sure how you can mass teleport out of that one.

>>55175190
Mass teleport all the demons so far away from Azeroth that they can't find it again. Also make sure no one teleports them back in.

>>55175190
Just teleport her to him. And I guess send the handmaidens along.

>>55175190
Looking at that picture can you even argue? What pathetic non demon could ever satisfy her?

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>>55175335
Probably the orc who kicked the demon lord's ass.

>>55175369
>inflict a papercut
>get your soul obliterated while your friends close the portal behind you and cut the guy you nicked in half

>>55175369
Orcs could perhaps satisfy your average moon priestess or peasant girl, but we're talking about queen aszhara here

I'm going to run a campaign set during Arthas' fall from grace. The party is consisted out of Silver Hand members, one Paladin and 4 footies sent to inspect an area in whom some Dalaran mages were reported to be searching for evidence that the plauge is indeed magical in nature as propossed by their ambassador in king Terenas' court. They should meet some Blackrocks hauling prisioners and arrive at a village, just to find out the mages are missing. I may, or maynot send a necromancer at them who revives murlocks and when shit hits the fan revives the mages to make an exit.

>>55163946
>Drink, Illidan. Claim your destiny.

>>55175659
and then the dalaran mages were actually sunwell refugees siphoning magic

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>>55142200
Maiev is crazy, years of her life wasted on a pointless venture based only on conjecture and prejudice to gain an unhealthy obsession with the only thing that gave her false life meaning and purpose be a Night Elf that only ever went against tradition to do the right thing in time of crisis.

>>55143396
The True Lich King never came to be. It was always Arthas, he literally shot himself in the foot during the merge, by killing Ner'zhul and his last sembalance of humanity and then doubled on it later on by also making it some generic symbolic bullshit by literally teraing out his own heart, as if the writer didn't know they actually did that already. He was barely managing the scourge with the power of the crown alone, and not what is basically a the like of a DM in 3.5 offering a PC a Gestalt class combo of his PC and a fucking Ex-Shaman Necromancer later on. He fucked his shit up, and you'd know this if you ever noticed the fact that pre-Icecrown, he immediately lost control of Slyvannas when the Lich King's power waned due to Illidan's little ritual, Arthas was SHIT at Undead HD control effectively.

It's absolutely fucking hilarious, all that work, planning, and atrocities committed, all for your groomed host to immediately nerf himself and throw it all away destroying any chance of success as the entire army crumbled under it's own poor management and weight.

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>>55171758
>When these niggas are supposed to be eldritch abominations but now the Titans can kill them and they sound like fucking D&D Elder Evil that misses the entire point of Cosmic horror, coming off as the cheesiest of shit now
This is Madness
And not the Insight-ridden Kind.

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>When you notice Illidan is literally becoming fucking Asmodeus
>Fucking Naaru tried to turn him into Mr Hornless who still isn't given that fucking backstory everyone wants
>Demon Hunters = Fallen Angels
>Keystone = Device used to form foundations of the hells
>Rejection of the Light and aquisition of power, and the fact that the Demons fit the same M.O as D&D demons and that even beating the Legion as an organization won't change the fact that they will just pop back up in the nether amongst all the worlds they intended to liberate and break
>To prevent this, keystone is used to Make Literally D&D Hell
>Illidan makes the Devils and shit goes fullblown nine hells.
>Blood war a gogo

>>55178677
>yfw Yogg-Saron fight could have been just him making terrifying guttural noises
>as your sanity dropped your screen would start freaking out and go black or flash graphics of terrifying Silent Hill level shit
>your raid members would randomly turn into hideous screeching monstrosities that looked like they were loping at you with 500% increased run speed to dismember you when they were really just trying to stack for a mechanic

Instead we just get tentacle adds and portal flashbacks. D3 having dialogue every 10 seconds was the worst part of the game. The only fucking words coming out of Diablo should be "even death cannot save you from me". Instead she/he won't even shut the fuck up

>>55178677
They were never supposed to be true Lovecraft-level horrors, though. Yes, they were scary as fuck for any mortal, but it was never implied that the Titans had any trouble imprisoning them. It wasn't until Cataclysm that they were seen as anything but a side threat, dangerous mostly for the size of their forces rather than their own (admittedly weakened) powers.

>>55145973

If you're not suuuper picky about the time-line, you could totally set it during the war of the trolls.

It lets you involve elder gods, humans, blood-elves and you don't have to worry about all of this nonsense with the lich king/time travel.

(Plus nobody ever visits troll wars, and that sucks.)

>>55142200
How big are penis sizes across races?

Can Death Knights and Demon Hunters reproduce?

>>55179458
Demon hunters yes but they for birth to magic addicted crack babies. Death knights can get (you) pregnant, but the babies abort themselves.

>>55154359

>Waah, I'm a moralfag

>People like things I don't like and that's not ok!

>Muh undeads shouldn't exist!

>>55178989
he doesn't even sound like he's whispering to you, which is even worse.

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>>55165019

You shut your whore mouth about mrglrgls, murlocks are the best waifus.

>>55179503
So is racial dick size like Lurkergg's porn where it's whatever the fuck you want it to be?

>>55148332

Of all of the "wish list" wow playable races I have seen, this is probably the worst

>>55179458
Death Knights are basically undead, and Demon Hunters would give birth to daemonic aberrations.

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>>55148743
The fuck is that shit? Slutty Batgirl with a hoola-hoop?

>>55179786
Oh, anon. You've only scratched the surface. Except for Nerubians, all of those are at least bipeds, and mortal, and not always-chaotic-evil.

Just look at all of the "Naga pls" lists.

>>55179890
False. Demon Hunters could technically have children that weren't horrific aberrations, but chances are they're either too fucked in the head for sex (Considering they're all literally insane), or the child itself wouldn't last long surrounded by a bunch of PTSD riddled half demon elves.

>>55179688
Well Tauren are the defacto biggest, likely followed by either Worgen (Furry mode) or Draenei. From there, it likely goes as such;
>Troll
>Orc
>Nelf
>Human
>Pandaren
>BElf
>Dwarf
>Goblin
>Gnome
Undead would likely fit just under Human, when applicable.
All things considered, however, Tauren dicks would beat out all others by magnitudes of size. So much so that 90% of porn involving Tauren men would end with the woman being split up through the lower torso should it be changed to be anatomically correct.
That's only player races though, don't get me started on Dragons and Pit Lords.

>>55180199
>(Considering they're all literally insane)

They sacrified EVERYTHING. What have YOU given?

>>55180336
Sacrifice implies that they wanted to give everything. In all actuality, most of their 'everything' was forcibly taken, because demons are mean sons a bitches.

>>55179509
Fuck off the Forsaken are a fucking mistake and should have never been playable. It's should tell you something when the only non evil forsaken npcs no longer serve the bitch queen and hate her guts. The bitch queen even has a fucking bunch of vats of plague in dalaran

>>55180274
What about Demon Hunters? Do they have fel enhanced cocks?

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>>55179913
Batgirl simply isn't angry enough.

>>55180274
Pretty sure Nelfs should be higher, they're fucking huge and tall, taller than even orcs I think.

>>55180771
>throbbing glowing veins
>etched with glowing fel rune tattoos
>spiked

>>55175190
To be fair it's hinted that she is (or was) comparable in power to Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden. The only dick in the universe good enough for her WAS Sargeras's.

>>55180970
Nah, she wasn't.

The only person who was ever impressed by her was Mannoroth, but I mean...that's the guy that got oneshot by Grom and since then has just been beat to shit by various adventurers. Once Kil'Jaeden showed up during the Sundering, she quickly fell in line.

Moreover, you have to figure a lot of Azshara's fame comes from her tapping directly into the Well of Eternity, without it she folded like paper.

>>55180771
Depends on the demon they ingest.
Sometimes it gets viggerx sometimes it flat disappears.
>>55180871
NElfs are longer, but Orcs have more girth. Take that as you will.

>>55153986
I think it would have been neat to have races limited to iconic "hero" classes and have the NPCs be the stuff like footmen and whatnot.
>Humans
Paladins and Archmages
>Dwarves
Mountain Kings and Snipers
>Gnomes
Tinkers and something else (Technomage or whatever)
>High Elves
Priests and Blood Mages
>Orcs
Blademasters and Far Seers
>Trolls
Shadow Hunters and Berserkers
>Tauren
Spirit Walkers and Earthshaker (basically Chieftains in WC3)
>Ogres
Ogre Magi (Bloodlust OP) and something else
>Night Elf Males
Demon Hunter or Druid
>Night Elf Females
Warden or Priestess of the Moon

Though I feel some races need more, namely High Elves definitely could have Spellbreakers.

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>>55180858
Her claws could cause some damage.

>>55176780
That would make people hate elfs, good idea fuck elfs.

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>>55142200
>Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

Would you find it appealing if it they made a "Warcraft 4 RTS" and instead of just jumping the shark even further by continueing the series: it was based off of the historical happenings of Azeroth and the campaigns were set/based off of some of the most important events in Warcraft's history?

Like, you'd have campaigns focused on: The War of The Ancients, The Troll Wars, The Gnoll War, maybe a couple on the Orcs rise to power as they ruined Draenor, uhhhmmnn... Maybe one on the War of The Hammers, etc.. etc.. Just interesting historical campaigns, you know?
Or better yet, maybe just have the first initial game focus 'mostly' on Azeroth's history and then have an expansion specifically for Outland's history and then some smaller DLC campaigns on more inconsequential stories.

You could even do what they did with Starcraft 2 and have unique Co-op quest leaders taken from the campaigns who have unique units, buildings, etc.. to complete co-op missions together.

That's what I'd want out of a Warcraft 4 RTS at least.
I don't even really know what else they could fucking do with Warcraft, to be honest.

>>55183453
Doesn't sound to bad but seems a waste to use warcraft 4 on just past stuff.
If the made it like Warcraft Ages or something.

>>55183453
>RTS set during the Black Empire
>All kinds of crazy Old God units and Titan Constructs
I dig it.

>>55173889
Yeah, I feel like after helping depose Garrosh the Tauren could probably call things even and walk away. I would have liked to see an unexpected bromance between Baine and Lor'themar or something, to justify the Tauren still being invested.

>>55179055
I mean, back circa WC3 and Vanilla they were still implied to be Lovecraft-level horrors, and the idea of something above hadn't come up yet. Also the Titans sealing them was back then presented as a big feat that cost the life of at least one Titan, but that's since been retconned and now the Old Gods are kinda small fish, cosmically speaking.

>>55173889
Remember that time in vanilla when a Tauren scout came to Undercity for some medical help, and the Royal Apothecary Society dupes you into testing a plague strain on her, leading to her death?

>>55185673
I'm pretty sure the tauren and trolls are still bros.

>>55186000
Devilish.

>>55174657
>Horde before Kossak took them back to rampaging assholes mode.
I am glad tha Kossak is no longer lead writer and went to HS, but the damage was already done, and he made his waifu into Warchief, just because Alliance babbies couldn't handle Varian dying and Vol'jin not (despite now Horde changing leadership one time more than Alliance one).

>>55186005
>implying the Trolls have ever had enough attention for anyone to have an opinion one way or another about them

t. Warchief Placeholder

>>55185739
>Lovecraft-level horrors
That really depends on how you define "Lovecraft-level". I always read them as being something that only existed on Azeroth, and were more dangerous for their corruptive influence than their direct power (which was still respectable, of course).

Of course, back in vanilla/TBC the mythology was simultanously less cosmic and less streamlined. There were plenty of gods running around, and while their exact power levels were uncertain, no one tried to argue that they weren't all gods (whereas now they've all been retconned into other categories, Hakkar is just a loa, Elune might be a naaru or Titan, etc).

>>55178606
>Maiev is crazy, years of her life wasted on a pointless venture based only on conjecture and prejudice to gain an unhealthy obsession with the only thing that gave her false life meaning and purpose be a Night Elf that only ever went against tradition to do the right thing in time of crisis.
Illidan, go back to Argus.

>>55178606
>a Night Elf that only ever went against tradition to do the right thing in time of crisis
Isn't Illidan a habitual fuckup or otherwise comes up with the stupidest plans for things? I mean, I get he's a dindu now, but still.

So, what member of Illidari in their right mind would ever recruit Altruis the Sufferer over Kayn Sunfury?
If you include metagaming and use knowledge that would not be privy to DH characters, then picking Altruis makes no sense, as he sends PCs to kill several of the Illidari, which leads to death and corruption of Varedis, which leads to deaths of several more Illidari.
And when you do not include metagaming, then all you know about Altruis is that he abandoned the cause, thus betrayed his fellow Ilidari, and has no loyalty towards your leader, Illidan, without whom you wouldn't be what you are now.
That being said, best DH is Loramus Thalipedes, who unfortunately shares body with Rak'likh, so can't manage leadership position as your right hand.

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>>55187261
No way, fag. I'm going to click my hooves of speed, unfurl my demon wings, glaive glaive laser, then use my last fel of the day to bring Argus to ME! There's no Light, it's a GAME!
*Air guitar solo*

>>55187395
>I get he's a dindu now, but still.
Xe'ra was proven wrong and slightly insane in her methods, so Illidindu is actually Illididdu, and now he's Illidone.

>>55187428
The way I saw it, even if you DO trust Altruis and genuinely agree with him that the Illidari were going down a bad road before, he serves you better by staying outside the Illidari hierarchy as an external observer to step in if he thinks he sees us falling again, so you should STILL pick Kayn.

>>55170562
Nathrezim are all dude, man. That's a trap. Traps are gay.

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Imagine having a low enough IQ to unironically care about warcraft lore, which reads like a 15 year old fedora-edgelord's wet dream.

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>>55187551
Maybe she's just an extra-powerful succubus.

Who knows? She could've been one of these.

>>55187758
>Dreadlord Jaina
>Not male with huge evil void dick
>Not demonic toxic ballsack of vileness
Really wishfull thinking, desu.

>>55187662
we all care what happened to the things of our childhoods- Especially when we can grumble how much worse everything has gotten

>>55186930
>I always read them as being something that only existed on Azeroth, and were more dangerous for their corruptive influence than their direct power (which was still respectable, of course).
In the beginning, I actually thought their corruption was their least important quality. I assumed that if an Old God was free, it wouldn't need to use corruption. That corruption was just what they relied on because they were unable to exert direct power from within their containment. They had to indirectly influence the minds of mortals instead. But when they were free? Everyone was getting a direct eyeblast to the face.

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>>55170562
She can convert me any time.

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>>55188551
And once everyone would get direct eyeblast to the face, they could return to making huge empire and corrupt Azeroth's world-soul.

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Magic chart technically explains certain abilities that belongs to specific magic.
>Light is close to Fire (so it can burn), but also to Life (so it heals)
>Fel is close to Fire (Annihilan are most recognizable flaming demons), relatively close to Void (Nathrezim have close affinity for Shadow and were walking freely on the world with a world-soul and Old Gods that Sargeras found; also,Nathrezim being more Shadow than Fel makes them closer to Air than Fire, which is why they can fly, unlike Annihilan, despite both having wings), but also Death (hence why lot of demons can perform various kinds of Necromancy)
>Water and Spirit are close to Life (which is why Water Totems are for healing, while Healing Wave is clearly not Water)
>Air and Fire are closer to Disorder, while Water and Earth are closer to Order (which is why Al'akir and Ragnaros joined with Deathwing, unlike Neptulon and Therazane)

>Order is closer to the Shadow
>Light is closer to the Fel
That's not a very good thing to realize.

>>55189976
That chart is good but it could be substantially better. For instance it assume that life and death are their own forces rather than an interaction of the Cosmic Forces (Arcane, Light, Void, Fel) with Primal Matter (Fire, Earth, Water, Air) via Transient Anima (Spirit, Nature, Decay, Necrotic).
Examples:

The application of Shadow to the element of Ice via Necromancy is how Lich and "Dark Shaman" power works.

The material planets that can bear life such as Draenor and Azeroth formulate from an application of Light to the Primal Elements, generating spirit. However Azeroth had also generated a World Soul that absorbs Spirit back, leaving the elements animated but not in the form of living beings. This is why primordial Draenor had too much life whereas Azeroth had nothing but the Elemental Lords.

The application of Arcane via the Titans is how both worlds acquired their Nature. Via exposure to Arcane energies certain races such as Trolls eventually developed into elves.

The application of Void to Spirit results in Decay, ergo the spawning of all the insectoid species from Azeroth upon contact with the Old Gods. This corruption was so despicable it led Sargeras into losing faith in the Arcane, since world souls that are Arcane deities absorb Spirit (ergo Light) and could be corrupted with Decay ergo (Shadow). Therefore he turned to Fel.

Fel destroys and mutates any being it comes into contact with by disrupting their Nature and feeding on their Spirit. The orcs having being thoroughly corrupted by the Fel couldn't even access the light or seek the favour of the Elemental Spirits.

All in all the cosmology of WoW is one of the few things that does make sense, and it makes sense internally that people would turn to these forces as objects of faith or to certain beings that are products of them (Wild Gods- Nature, Titans - Arcane, Elements - Prime Matter, Void - Old Gods, Light-Elune, Naaru). It's certainly clearer and tangible than a DnD alignment system.

>>55190461
I myself also enjoy the elemental duality, which shows how certain traits, both positive and negative, are related to the elements.

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>>55190561
aand I forgot to include the pic.

>>55190561
Keep in mind, also, that despite what anon >>55189976 says there's very little actual preferance of the Prima Matteria Elements to be used by a particular Cosmic Force. Fire can be of a Felfire type, or it can be the Arcanic reordering of a flame element (Fire Mages) or as an energy release when Light interacts with Void in a material body. Both Fel and Arcane are essentially forces of the Twisting Nether and the magic drawn from them to reality operates on the same objects.

What we haven't really seen is a direct equivalent of what Anima is created when Void is applied directly to Prime Matter, i.e. what the universe looks like in the Void Lord's side of reality. We've only been able to see what life on Light-spawned worlds looks like when it's corrupted, but perhaps the Nathrezim are the closest to beings from a completely Void-based system and Necromantic power is at its core the dark counterpart of Spirit? But that's speculative.

>>55186930
>whereas now they've all been retconned into other categories, Hakkar is just a loa

Technically, he's still a wild god.
Trolls are just pretty generous about what is a Loa.

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>>55190762
>Keep in mind, also, that despite what anon >>55189976 (You) says
That's also me, I just noticed that there are nearly no demons that are inclined to use water or earth magic, or showing traits of those.
>inb4Infernals
They are golems, so they do not count.

And to quote the correct (according to Medivh) answer to question on how Mages makes Fireballs, they gather heat from around them to create fire (which means that at some point of this process they ignite the air).
>They wouldn't recognize a parallel dimension even if it would appear right in front of them and punch them
Nathrezim are probably the most odd of the demons, and their affinity with the shadow is likely the sole reason why this guy could happen.

>>55181002
It was Archimond, he's always the one leading armies on the front.

>>55180274
Trolls are biggest, they such slouch over.

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>>55191512
>Trolls are just pretty generous about what is a Loa.
When a Troll says "Your mother's a Loa", he probably really means it. And if you're a Troll too, it's actually more than likely.

>>55191819
Male Trolls slouch because they tower so much over their females, that this is the only position in which they can have a good look at their chests.

>>55191962
I thought it was because the huge tusks were otherwise too heavy for the relatively spindly frames of Jungle, Sand and Forest Trolls, with Ice Trolls not having that problem because they're HUGE and Zandalari not having that problem because their muscles, though wiry, are still strong enough to hold them up in this way.

>>55191819
But they're skinny as fuck, so pencil dicks basically?

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>>55192657
Forest Trolls are no longer having the same frames as Jungle and Sand (which are simply Jungle Trolls that ended up in Tanaris after Sundering) Trolls. Have you never went to Eversong Woods, Ghostlands, and Zul'Aman?

>>55181292
Maybe have the other ogre class be Mercenary?

>>55192975
Yeah something like a highly skilled ogre warrior would be cool, since ogres are already retardedly strong.

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>>55187431

>>55193602
>Illidan

Isn't that the point?

>>55193847
I'll be honest. The only reason why I play DH is to rp that I have a hot Warden girlfriend.

>>55194024
How big is the strap on she pegs you with?

So is a male goblin in a relationship with a female tauren like throwing a hotdog down a hallway?

>>55194986
Nope. Lots of gobbo babies with fluffy ears. Confirmed canon

>>55195135
Guess the smaller races are big where it counts, eh?

>>55195394
Well I only meant that as if fertilization was guaranteed. There's still the mechanical side, but it's still very possible.

>>55186930
>Hakkar is just a loa
>>55191512
>Technically, he's still a wild god.
And a pretty nasty one on top of that. After all, initially after release of Zul'Gurub, his powers were used to cause pandemic plague.