/GURPSgen/ GURPS general; get thrown out the airlock ediiton

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>>55140188
English Lite pdf. "You may distribute this PDF file freely under the above restrictions (don't sell it), and post copies of it online."

---

What campaigns are you running, GURPSgen? I'm running a Fallout campaign, starring a group of raiders and their pet deathclaw. I put it together mostly using the After the End supplement for templates and radiation rules. I'd been looking for concept art and fallout-esque art to use for them, since it's an online game, but I have had a hard time finding a good collection.

>>55140418

Once my Fantasy box comes in (or someone leaks the PDFs to backers) I'm going to try and resurrect a game an online GM ran years ago: Pirates of Dark Water meets Panzer Dragoon Orta.

What always stood out to me about it was that characters were 125/-25, but we felt competent. Damn me if I can't remember what he did to make that feeling though.

Dat subject field, lmao

Anyway, I'm running an industrialized fantasy game focusing on freebooting/smuggling and supernatural monster hunting. So far 4 sessions in it's awesome and fairly bizarre.

>>55140188
>Capitalization
>Edition spiel in the subject field
Delete thread, try again.

What are the rules for commanding large groups of units against other large groups of units? TL10 if that makes a difference.

>>55143744
Mass Combat is the supplement you're looking for.

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>>55140827
That's a weird combination. What kind of characters did your players make?

>>55140418

Monster hunting/survival in mythic (9th century) Germany. Players have been kind of surprised/annoyed at how lawless people are.. "what do you mean you can get kidnapped or robbed traveling from Munich to Angsburg?!"

>>55140418
I was planning to do a Fallout game too but I shelved the idea until later. Right now I'm running a dungeon fantasy game.

>>55140418
>What campaigns are you running, GURPSgen?
Shitty dungeoncrawl for new players that'll wrap up Saturday, maybe. It's been going decently so far. They woke up as prisoners in a goblin-kin dungeon/mine that's using dark magic to turn people into dumb brutes to mine rare reagents for evil summoning rituals. I want to run like four different games but scheduling is the eternal dragon there.


>>55140827
Give us the low-down of how it's been going. Maybe it'll spark some discussion.

Anyone that has Back the School, can you explain how "Points as an Accelerator" is supposed to work? Am I reading it correctly that every bonus point invested gives half of the hours required to actually gain a point in the skill? Like, if you invest one point, you go from 200 to 100, investing two halves it again to 50, three to 25, and so on? If someone has already studied for 20 hours, does investing the first point drop the remaining hours from 180 to 90?

>>55140899
Dude, if I could edit the thing, I would. I screwed the hell out of the OP, and I sure as hell didn't mean to. I've seen GURPS LITE and GURPS Lite used interchangeably. In that context it is meant to call attention to one word, anyway. Doesn't mean I'm right.

The "edition" spiel this time was a reference to >>55136722 The spoiler in the that post was about those recommending GURPS be thrown out an airlock. Naturally, 90% of the responses were GURPS.

Take a chill pill, get comfy, and let people have fun.

>>55147398
GURPS

>>55140765
>>55144581
>>55146092

Dungeon Fantasy, yeah! I want to run an open West Marches-esque game at my flgs. Almost as an excuse to buy the box set. Part of my thinking is that the box set should make things more accessible. Between that, and the open hexcrawl style, I'm hoping to lure more neophytes into the cult.

Also, >>55144581, why shelve the idea? Not enough players? I'd happily brainstorm about it you, as time permits.

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I like class trees/life paths a lot, so I started putzing around with a graph tool to try to make a tree for giggles... I think when I make a decent tree, I'll try to make like 50 point menus of abilities/skills for all of the nodes. Maybe rule that if you get 20 points worth of abilities from one node, provided you have all the pre-reqs, you can go onto the next nodes.
It's super gamey I guess, but I think it could be neat.

>>55147742
I think that the life path/tree things are some of the neatest darn things about Traveler and Burning Wheel. I haven't seen any articles about them in pyramid, or elsewhere, really.

...What kind of software did you use to make that? Now that I think about it, I want to putz around with one. Maybe a DOT graph file would do it.

>>55147931
>Dot Graph file
That is literally what it is.

>>55147949
Oh. Well, cool. What are you using to render it, then?

>>55148009
http://www.graphviz.org/
dot -Tpng "class tree.dot" -o classTree.png

I'd share the file, but I made the blunder of the century and gave the nodes really dumb names, thinking that my weird system would be helpful, but... it's not.

I think if I get beyond the "for grins" phase (Which by my estimation, would be a satisfyingly large tree and a few of the templates for the nodes done,) I might think of a better way to organize the entire tree... maybe some kinda database or something, and a small script to automatically generate the dot file from the database.

Looking at the character point breakdown, if I wanted to run a Cowboy Bebop/Firefly style near-future game, with the players starting out as "reasonable professionals", would 75/-25 be okay?

I'll be playing with people who've never played GURPS before, and to be honest, I've only ever been a player, not a GM.

What would templates for that point value look like?

>>55148355
No. No way. You'll want closer to 150-175 /-25 for reasonable professionals.

100 point total would be something like apprentices or high school grads piling into a ship.

>>55140418
I'm playing in a Fallout campaign, actually. This one stars a group of vault dwellers and their pet ghoul.

>>55148403

Why do the rules lie then? Book says 75-100 points is a star athlete, seasoned cop, etc.

>>55147624
I'm worldbuilding the area the game is set. I shelved it until I had more background content developed. I could cobble together a game, but I want it to be good. Brainstorming with someone wouldn't be a bad idea.

>>55148516
Because >>55148403 is wrong. 25-50 points is normal average humans, with most of their points dedicated to single points in skills and very minor advantages.

>>55148516
Because Star Athletes and Seasoned Cops are good at narrow specialties.

If you're running a Bebop or Firefly kind of game, not only are your guys going to need to be athletic, they're also gonna need to shoot as well as a cop, be observant, maintain and repair the ship, and also haggle. You can lower the point value a bit if you have a lot of crew members that can specialize.

>>55148603
Forgets that most movie and show protagonists easily top 300 points, so feel free to disregard me, but don't complain if your players fail often and hard at similar situations you saw in the shows.

>>55148516
Realistically, star athletes and seasoned cops would not survive as well as the Serenity or Bebop crew. They're the heroes of the story, so their capability are a little... above what theor histories say they should be. Similarly, John McClane is not a 75-point seasoned cop despite what the script says; going by what he does and what he overcomes, he's at least a 250-point character.

GURPS tends towards heroic realism; a seasoned cop is a badass to be sure, but he's not frequently-takes-on-five-guys-at-once badass. To simulate cinematic feats and scenarios, you need cinematic rules and cinematic point values. Either up player competency, tone down threats to a realistic level, or prepare for a bloodbath as your realistic commando gets roflstomped by a horde of nameless thugs that any tv show or movie protag would mop the floors with.

>>55148355
My suggestion is to use Action 4. Use the basic action template, then tell people they can take 50~75 points worth of lenses on top of that. That will give you a motley crew that can fend for themselves and take down challenges together while still wanting to get the hell out of dodge when gunmen show up.

>>55148603
>>55148516

Navy SEALS are real life examples of 400 point characters. Just saying that you may want to keep that in mind if you want to do an incredible cinematic campaign where characters generally approach that level of competency.

>>55148603
>brainstorming
I'm planning on playing around the Great Lakes area. There is some content there, insofar as Fallout Tactics, I think, but not so much that I can't work around or with it. As such, there's a precedent for enclave and BoS chapters and tech being around. Part of the motivation for it is that all of us live within the broad region, so there's going to be some amount of fun in exploring familiar but alien territory.

I have a few things I am specifically planning around. I want to introduce domain play early with raider gangs/tribes and pseudo feudalism. Visiting, or at least making available, Detroit, Flint, Chicago, Toledo, and other big cities. Also, playing with the strategic resources they have for the domain play, if they become big boss men. Cults or gangs that would crop up out of the ashes of the rust belt and industrial parks. Irradiated rednecks from the agricultural rural areas. Actual bloody border skirmishes between Michigan and Ohio amuses me.

With the Great Lakes, I think it'd be interesting to explore the social and resource ramifications in the Fallout post-apoc. For example, what if they are tainted? What if they are dried up, or the water level is down? What kind of weather would there be, including the possibility of acid rain or heavy nuclear rains? Fucking post-apoc literal pirates and shit!

Also, irradiated animals. Moose and deer, bear, mountain lion, wolves/coyotes, various marine life. I really want to make FEV-enhanced planet of the apes shit happen in the woods, via escaped zoo animals or a vault or something.

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>>55148355
Here's some advice I heard, that in hindsight, is a "no duh" thing, but was kinda eye opening for me.

If you want to figure out how many points is right for your campaign or setting, make 2 or 3 characters that fit your vision with no regards to points, and see how much it cost to make them. If you could build Cowboy Bebop at his computer for 75 points, then that's probably enough. If it takes you 200 points, that's probably enough.

The small trick after that though is if you want the party to build characters that are already experts at what they are doing, or if you want them to grow into it. If the later, I'd say dock about 25% for a 10ish session campaign, or 50% for a real long campaign.

>>55148642
>>55148640
>>55148937
Well bugger, guess I'll have to up the points.

>>55149105
Will give this a try, thanks.

I'm not after a super-cinematic experience, but if
GURPS assumes cinematic realism, that's what I'll work towards.

>>55149168
Then you'll end up with a total between 125 and 175 depending on how much you want your group to grow into their roles. Cheers.

>>55148970
Interesting.

As far as my Fallout idea goes: it's set in Arizona post Fallout: New Vegas. It assumes the NCR has won control of the dam. The NCR has started a war campaign and has successfully kicked the Legion out of their capital city of Flagstaff.

The players are going to start in a small village on the border of the Painted Desert called Sun Rise, notable for it housing a relic of the old world: a Highwayman.

This of course gets stolen by raiders in the first session and the players are promised large amounts of money if they get it back.

As far as background stuff is concerned: The main focus of the NCR in Arizona is to bring civilization to Phoenix, which hasn't had the best 200 years - a series of fires and battles have torn the city apart and turned into a den of degeneracy, crime, and disease among other things. NCR wants to use their newfound wealth and turn Phoenix into a megacity of sorts: the rubble and infrastructure can be worked with to do such a task.

I adjusted the value of NCR Dollars. Caps to NCR dollars are 4:1. Legion currency has dropped in value too, but some people accept it by weight since some coins are made from gold. The NCR has minted some new coins and notes: the nickle, dime, and quarter are the new coins, and there's now $50, $500, and $1000 notes.

And watch out kids! There's a new, hip soda to replace Nuka Cola! Try the Official Drink of the NCR: New California Cola! NC Cola has a better, more refined taste than Nuka Cola and it's yours for only a quarter, and every quarter funds the battle to destroy tyranny! Try it today!

That's pretty much all I got.

>>55149191

Sounds like fun. Maybe make the raider boss they are tracking to begin with the "ROAD KING" who is riding in their car like he's king of the road. He's got it running again with huge, off road tires and a lifed suspension?

For the NCR, I've always thought of the railroad as emblematic of their true reach and power. if they've got a rail line running the old I40 rout to Flagstaff it would represent the last bit of civilization before it turns into the wild, fucked up frontier. Past the railroad transport is done by caravan companies supplying the general stores in small towns.

You could have some fun with NCR trying to hire/recruit some Indian/local guides and auxiliaries in their efforts to bring civilization to the old rez.

>>55149191
If the players are longtime fans of the series, the Highwayman hook is great! Very fallout-esque, with a seemingly simple, open objective.

Phoenix has only minimal mention in canon, so you could almost certainly get away with it. The players may question the NCR's decision, though. I'm curious about it, at the least. Phoenix is, realistically, one of the hottest cities in the states. The river would need to be viable. It's a tributary to the Colorado river, but downstream of the Dam. That could be a pretty good adventure hook, also very fallout-esque. Water is a precious resource in the wasteland.

I like the NCR Cola. The propaganda mixed with commercialized support of their government is a neat idea.

Since you're doing things around the wasteland proper, I have a couple ideas about that. There is historical precedent for folks to make homes out of the cliff-faces. Desert folk tend to wear layers of linen or material which is similar to linen, which is made with flax. Flaxseed (linseed) oil is also a viable quenching material for blacksmithing, and for weather treating a lot of things. It's a pretty small detail, but it'd be neat to see flax farms used as a strategic resource in the NCR v Legion conflict. Especially since farms not specifically and only for food are likely a rarity.

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>>55147742
don't be me and create a massive modular class system using 20 base archetypes with weird and manyfold hybrid options and FFT style shitwizardry

>>55149675
I'm not familiar with flaxseed oil in the blacksmithing process. Tell me more, if you can.

>>55150613
Quenching is the process of rapidly cooling a hot metal to increase its hardness. If you allow metal to slowly cool, the resulting metal is soft and malleable. If you quickly cool it down it becomes hard and brittle. A key component of metallurgy is being able to control the temperature to reach an ideal hardness for what ever you're doing. Armor plate should be exceptionally hard as it will sustain repeated hard impacts and surface damage does not affect the usefulness. Blades should have a hard spine to prevent breaking, but a softer blade to allow it to be sharpened. The body of the blade should also be soft enough to flex and return to shape rather than shatter. Oil is used because water will allow oxygen to enter the metal. You can also quench in "used" oil that has been partially burnt to case harden the metal, depositing a layer of extra carbon on the surface of the object to protect it from corrosion.

Linseed oil is also used to treat wood so that it doesn't rot or warp in harsh conditions.

>>55150613
I'm somewhere in between an amateur and an apprentice, particularly in medieval and renaissance technologies. linseed oil has properties that make it suitable to prevent weather damage and rust to many surfaces. That's why it was, and in some cases still is, an ingredient in paint. If you take hot iron or steel and quench it in linseed oil, it kind of sears it into the surface. It helps if you put it back in the fire briefly to take off the excess and bake it into the material. It works very much like how you season a cast-iron pan. Even if you don't quench it in the oil, warming up metal before applying linseed oil or similar wax is very common practice.

But you don't have to take my word for it. This is the first reference I found online (http://www.fullchisel.com/blog/?p=1157). There are a number of other sources which corroborate this.

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>>55150685
>>55150761
>>55150613

Steel is a crystalline alloy of iron and carbon. When you cool it really fast the carbon doesn't get out of the iron crystals and instead is trapped within them, forming a really, really hard structure of iron wrapped around carbon.

That's good. The bad part is those structures don't stick together so well, so you get a very hard steel, but one that will break relatively easily.

Water cools a metal the fastest, and gives you the hardest. Oil cools more slowly, and gives you a more desirable result for many tools.

Even then, you are going to want to take your quench-hardened stuff and heat it up again, but not as much, then let it cool in the air. This lets a bit of that really hard stuff instead form a structure that is happy to stick to itself and hold the item together called cementite.

>>55148642
To be fair, several people on the Serenity crew are legitimately killing machines, even without Main Character status to back them up. Mal's a old gunslinger, Jane's an amoral killing machine and Zoe is a six foot tall woman that not only had to survive the war of the alliance, she also had to deal with some really fucked up roles on Hercules. Shepard, of course, is something special too.

Doc, Inara and Kallie don't kick much ass outside of a few places where they absoloutly have to use cleverness and training to their advantage.

>>55148603
Most normal adults run 50 points or so, it's just not much in things that a person would consider useful for adventuring. Doing a stint in the armed forces bloats your point total for the rest of your life, for example.

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http://www.mediafire.com/file/idihdcwz2td/Metallurgy_of_Steel_for_Bladesmiths_%26_Others_who_Heat_Treat_and_Forge_Steel_-_By_John_D._Verhoeven_%282005%29.pdf

>>55150685
>Armor plate should be exceptionally hard as it will sustain repeated hard impacts and surface damage does not affect the usefulness. Blades should have a hard spine to prevent breaking, but a softer blade to allow it to be sharpened. The body of the blade should also be soft enough to flex and return to shape rather than shatter.

Armour needs a high impact toughness to prevent penetration. While a high hardness is good so that edges and points won't "bite in" as easily, excessive hardness makes brittleness unavoidable.

Sharp blades have their greatest need of hardness in the edge, for edge retention. This will likely be harder than you want your armour, but here too excessive brittleness must be avoided.

Overall a blade needs to be strong. The yield strength is how much force it takes to bend a blade to the point where you start seeing permanent deformation. The ultimate strength is when the blade snaps off entirely. There is generally a correlation between strength and hardness, a harder blade is a stronger one, but as we get to really hard stuff the brittleness weakens the blade. Ideal strength is found be balancing hardness and toughness. As such, a soft blade is also a weak one, and will bend easily.

>>55151343
>This lets a bit of that really hard stuff instead form a structure that is happy to stick to itself and hold the item together called cementite.

Cementite doesn't cement steel together, it merely sits there as small bits of hard, ceramic material. Hardened steel is (relatively) hard and brittle because all the carbon being caught where it should be strains the crystalline structure. Tempering relieves this by letting some of the carbon slip out, reducing the strain, and thus putting the material further from the breaking point again.

>>55152876
Fascinating stuff, thanks dude. Do you happen to know much about tanning?

>>55155517
Use sunscreen, and don't tan during 10 am and 3 pm.

>>55155671
I appreciate the gesture but just so you know I have Killjoy under disads.

>>55150685
>>55150761
>>55151343
>>55152876
NEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRDS.

Now fix LTC's smithing rules.

What is the best melee weapon skill, and why is it Axe/Mace?

>sw imp for massive damage
>break flimsy fencing weapons
>Hook stuff

>>55156437
What's wrong with 'em?

>>55157109
You're obviously wrong. It's two-handed sword/two-handed axe/mace combo.

>thr imp for precision damage.
>cutting so it cuts through shitty wooden hafts.
>swords can be flipped about and held by the blade (using two-handed axe/mace) to use crossguard as hook and can do sw imp depending on crossguard shape.

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>>55157109
sw imp is generally a bad idea. It's nice bonus damage but Gets Stuck kind of sucks and you run into a real lack of versatility.

Axe/Mace is a very good skill because it offers a wide choice of cheap, high damage items. It's bad because you often need different weapons to perform different damage types and attacks. At best you might have a combination axe with a spike on the reverse that you can switch to swing/imp with a Ready action.

>>55157238
Sweeps, too. Big swords are nice, and muderstrokes being Axe/Mace is something you could certainly use Adaption perks from Martial Arts to change (Two handed sword held by blade defaults to Two handed sword seems pretty reasonable).

>>55157200
They're in Low-Tech Companion 3. The quality of the final product is determined by margin of success on the Armoury roll to make the weapon/armour; Good on 0-11, Fine on 12-17, Very Fine on 18+. The problems are that you can't set out to make a Fine sword, you just go normally and hope you roll well, and also that those margins are fucking insane.

>>55157946
You also get a pretty absurd ROI if you get a set up that can turn out Very Fine swords because the time and materials cost don't rise with the quality of the final product.

It's not a very good rule module.

>>55157946
Aren't there perks that affect that, though? I mean, I don't know why they went with insane margins and bandaid perks in the first place, but do they help?

>>55157946
You can set out to make a fine sword by electing to take extra time and use better materials/equipment.

>>55158010
Isn't there that "crucible steel" perk that basically makes iron more expensive for a bonus to skill?

Naive fix for forging fine/very fine swords.
Find the value of the sword you want to make.
Find the daily salary of a smith in LTC-3.
A smith takes (cost of sword/daily salary) days to make.

Now, if you want to go variable. The weird default Margin of Success for fixed duration is 3 minutes, so assume that 100% of a day's worth of work is done on a smith/armory roll that has a mos of 3... so multiply days to make something by by 3, and that's the cumulative MoS you need to make a sword.

EG: if it takes 7 days to make a sword, that requires a cumulative mos of 21. If you have skill 15, and roll 10, for MoS 5 every day you will be finished in 5 days instead of 7.

The one piece of this formula that I am not sure about is how much should good quality materials help... I'm thinking something like you need metal in value equal to half of the finished product... but that complicates the salary calculation a little bit if we assume that salary is net, not gross.

So... coming up with some numbers, a TL 4 smith makes $900/month, and I'll say that's worth $30 a day, or $10 per MoS "Progress point."
A fine greatsword is $3,600, so, a smith needs to accumulate 360 "Progress Points" to create $3,600 worth of work.
But... they need to buy the materials for the sword and still make $900/month profit. And my ballpark "I have no idea what I'm doing" guess is that this requires $1,800 worth of quality metal.
So, $1,800 is the expense over 4 months, or $450/month.

So really they need to be making $1,350/month to cover $450/month in expenses, which really means they are doing 1.5x the work per Mos...
so the grand unified formula is:

V/(<S*[1 + C/V]>/3) = Progress Points
V is value of the item crafted ($3,600)
C is the absolute cost of the raw materials ($1,800)
S is daily salary ($30/day)
And with all the values plugged in:
3600 / [<$30 * 1.5> / 3] = $3600/$15 = 240 points.

>>55158658
Same person... after stepping back and realizing the average MoS = 3 thing assumes that you are succeeding every single roll with a skill of 13, I have decided, the formula should be modified from:
>V/(<S*[1 + C/V]>/3)
to
>V/(<S*[1 + C/V]>/2.5)
To accommodate the approximately 84% success rate of skill level 13.

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>>55159353
>>55158658

Quick thoughts:

Per page 515 of the Basic Set materials/parts are generally 20% the cost of a finished item.

A common smith for Wealth 0, but a Master Blacksmith could be a Status +1, Wealth +1 character and would be paid, and produce, twice as much ($1800 per month instead of $900 at TL 4).

Maybe allow an assistant/apprentice to provide 1/2 the normal progress working under the direction of a master? This would reflect that very few good craftsmen work alone.

So ideally, a TL 4 Master would provide $60 per day, or $75 per day with an apprentice.

To work on a Fine Greatsword, they'd buy $720 in materials, then need to work for 39 days to finish the blade.

The good part about this is that you don't need to worry too much about rolls. As long as the master and apprentice make their monthly Job roll and meet the prerequisites for their employment. Their work in money per day factors in good and bad days and the occasional failed roll.

>>55161327
I think that makes sense. I mean, I imagine if smiths want to put food on the table, they can't put all their eggs in the "sword worth several months wages" basket, so they gotta be doing stuff like shoeing horses and extruding nails and probably working together in some corral with a master and a few journeymen.
I think the formula taking into account the salary also accommodates for the different pay levels. A "comfortable" smith is making twice as much money, because they are providing maybe roughly double the value (gross oversimplification, sure)

I think one of the small holes in the formula is, as you mention, the percent cost of the item, so really, if the raw materials are about 20% of the cost, labor only needs to produce 0.8 * Value of the item.
And in hindsight, yeah, daily rolls might be a bit tedious, the formula could be easily adjusted though to account for monthly rolls instead... by simply using salary per month (which means the number of points in the end are divided by 30) or rolling once, and multiplying MoS by 30.

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>>55161871
I was assuming the work to craft the item is only 80% the final cost. So if you make a really nice sword you (or whoever commissioned it) has to pony up 20% up front so you can start, but your labor cost and time working only equals the remaining 80%.

I'd say a Master crafts-person has a mix of requirements to get there, including factors like pure Skill Level, but also a good relationship with suppliers that gets them goods on time, a good business place that lets them work harder and even odd things like a wife / partner that means they don't have to spend time preparing their own meals or washing their own clothes.

So a master might only have SL 15 in Smiting, but also has a bunch of advantages, Status, ect.

>>55140765
What the hell kind of characters do you get in a game like that?

>>55163528
Ride dragons, presumably.

>tfw downloaded the character generator
>tfw can make any character I want to
>tfw want to play GURPS now

Quick question, though, how much of a faggot am I if I want to role-play as an already existing character from a movie/show/etc.?

>>55163528
Dragonrider.
Pirate captain.
Navy Admiral commanding a dragoncarrier taskforce to hunt pirate captains.

It has...potential.

>>55165048
On par with those who wanna play as Naruto or Batman.

Be somewhat original at least...

>>55165196
Is it marginally better if it's a minor character?

>>55165048
>tfw want to play GURPS now
It's almost as if not having to adhere to a faggot class system is a good thing.

>>55165196
Fuck it. I based my character off Dr. Krieger. It's made the space opera really interesting.

Shame about the lack of hobos though.

>>55147398
The point is, in the subject field /gurpsgen/ should always be written in lower case because it uses the convention of a board title and those are always lower case.

With regard to GURPS Lite, it is officially GURPS Lite, the reason it is sometimes shown in all caps is because in those instances lite is in title case.

>>55165442
Oh. Well, now I feel foolish. I keep an eye out, and the next time I post the OP, I'll adhere to convention. Thanks for correcting me, anon.

>>55165048
It's not uncommon to want to play an existing character. In a fresh campaign, you should probably try for something original. I don't think anyone is going to dismiss the utility of tropes and inspiration, though. If you can get someone to GM GURPS for you, though, you might be able to play as an existing character and have fun. That's what I did for my gal, used Lite to run a game based on a tv show. Did some intrigue and espionage, and had a lot of fun.

I think part of your taste for it can be fed by recreating characters in GURPS. I have fun with that on its own. The Mountain, from GoT, for example. To properly stat the actor in Basic Set rules, you need to give the man Gigantism and ST 21.

>>55165048
I feel you. Listening to filmreroll made me wanna play through movies with my friends.

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>>55165947
Technically you could likely get to him with Giantism and a mix of other stats to get the ST/lifting ability in the right ballpark.

Are there rules for penetrating something so much with a bullet that it comes on the other side with still enough momentum to damage again?

>>55167941
Probably, but overpenetration isn't as cool as you think. Bullets that go through someone do less damage to them unless you're lucky to hit something vital. It's better if a bullet deforms or tumbles, or ricochets inside armor to do more internal damage.

>>55167991
yeah, i figured that much. was simply curious to see it.

>>55167941
Overpenetration is in basic set. I don't remember the page, though, so check index or ctrl+f.

>>55168156
It can be done, but unless you're using something like a heavy machinegun or minigun, overpenetrating like that means you should probably switch to different ammo.

>>55168229
pg 408 in Basic Set.

>>55167313
I think that was what I did. I didn't write down the sheet. If I did, I don't have it with me. Just a thought experiment. Fun, though!

>>55168229
>>55168433
Theank you. yes i decided to avoid it altogether as seen we are TL 4 to 6 for my super engineer

I awas thinking. is there an easy way to see what most skills are used to default or do i have to make my particular sheet?

>>55167941
Page 408 of the Basic Set. Cover DR is equal armor on either side of an object and HP. So you blast a guy with a DR 5 vest on and 10 HP then he reduces the damage of bullets passing though him by 20 points.

Anything/one directly behind the target or using it for cover gets hit automatically. Anything else behind it in the line of fire gets attacked at an SL 9, just a random shot like if you miss your target and there's something behind it.

>>55168433
Most rifle bullets pass though a human, especially one without armor. It's not a big deal unless there's something you don't want a bullet in beyond the target.

>>55168474
In GURPS Character Sheet (the program) you can add skills to your sheet and reduce them to zero points, giving you the value they have at default.

Mostly, anyway. I've run into some bugs doing that in the past but nothing I couldn't correct with a few fast edits.

>>55168507
If you're shooting at an unarmored human, you should be using hollowpoints, flechettes, or a shotgun.

>>55168705

That isn't how you spell "whatever is cheapest".

5.56mm ball does the job fine. Why fuck around?

>>55168754
5.56mm and 12 gauge buck cost the same. Are you unwell?

I've got a player who isn kind of occupied so he doesn't know when he could play. i'm kind of conflicted if just kick him out or make him play as a ghost who manifests only when the player is there. any suggestion for any 100 and 50 disadvantages ghost?

How well does gurps do fantasy games?
Also how broke is the magic system?

>>55169039
Pretty well if crunchy realism, more work but still good if Munchkin.

It depends. a lot. be careful with the manuals. also Thaumatology and Ritual path magic is a godsend but it requires work

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>>55169057
>Ritual path magic is a godsend

>>55169057
>Pretty well if crunchy realism, more work but still good
>Thaumatology and Ritual path magic is a godsend but it requires work
How much work? Just removing the shit rules and adjusting numbers or drag out the shit necessary to calculate bullet trajectory bullshitinum? Also whats so good about the magic?

>be careful with the manuals.
Which and how do you mean?

>>55169131
well. Basic, Magic, Thaumatology
Also there are psis if you can consider those magics (Super, Powers)

I personally really like the realismi in gurps so i always apply all the rules i can remember. just use Combat Lite (At the end of the Characters manual) and it should work. you'd have to invent some mechanics to make cool things happen tho. otherwise i find it a little bit too limitng

>>55169116
>Implying Steve Jackson isn't actually an illuminati God

>>55169004
If you want to accommodate players with uncertain availability, I've heard that more episodic sessions work well for that. Not every actor is necessarily in every episode.

The classic 70's way to do this is the old "the session starts when you enter the dungeon, it ends when you exit" thing from way back in OD&D. There's definitely many other ways to do it, though, it's just reliant on "adventures" being somewhat resolved within a single session.

Beyond that, though, I think "the character only exists when the player is there to play them" sounds like a 0-point advantage?
You can toss on insubstantiality and whatnot if you want to make them properly a ghost, but that kind of feels like punishing the player for no good reason by forcing them to play a character they may not be interested in playing.

>>55169155
>otherwise i find it a little bit too limitng
I mean I'd think otherwise, more rules and rolls around what you CAN do would seem to limit your options than have an avarage skill that could be used in said time and place.

>>55169155
Not really answering the questions straightforwardly..

Like, what do you mean with
>well. Basic, Magic, Thaumatology
Also there are psis if you can consider those magics (Super, Powers)

I personally really like the realismi in gurps so i always apply all the rules i can remember. just use Combat Lite (At the end of the Characters manual) and it should work. you'd have to invent some mechanics to make cool things happen tho. otherwise i find it a little bit too limitng

>>55168792
Not really. Only the cheapest 12 gauge target loads match the price of 5.56x45mm ammo. It's around 27-35 cents per round vs 23-30 cents per round.

Even if you reload the shotgun still cost more to feed.

That said if you need to kill someone it pays to pay for the best. It's not exactly going to break the bank if you dropped $60 on a box of 20 instead of $50.

>>55169131
Nah. Thaumatology is just choosing which to apply--none of the options are shit but many are mutually exclusive, so decisions must be made--and RPM's versatility means you should expect to make the occasional judgment call.

>>55169836
Are there any good homebrewed magic?

>>55169842
'homebrewed' is a big trigger word here son

Check the books and pyramids we've linked. Between imbuments, sorcery, rpm, basic magic and the like, you should be able to find something to fit your gane

>>55169861
not anon you were replying to, but are sorcery and RPM books self contained, or do i need thaumatology to make sense of them?

>>55170820
Sorcery benefits greatly from having powers, but it doesn't require it, and doesn't need Thaumatology at all.

Ritual Path Magic doesn't require Thaumatology, but one optional mechanic uses some lookup tables from it, and there is an alternative mechanic that doesn't even need those.

>>55169490
>Pay for the best.
>Not handloading your own APDU +P slugs for your automatic shotgun.

How poor are you?

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What books besides basic do I want for a post apocalyptic epic across what used to be called North America? I want kind of a kitchen sink in terms of hazards, with some areas with terminator-robots (but who's parameters and inability to self program easily), others zombie plagues (but isolated by how relative little traffic the areas get and the geography), and etcetera.

I'm also wanting it to be old West, thematically.

>>55172902

After the End, High Tech if you want to have a lot of pre apocalypse weapons and equipment around, Low-Tech if not.

UltraTech for the robots, and Biotech can help you make mutants and plagues.

>>55172902
GURPS After The End is a great line for the post-apocalyptic game. High-Tech has guns, Ultra-Tech for things that go beyond current technology.

>>55172902
Ooh, I know this one!

"After the End" has two books which would support this kitchen sink apocalypse. Wastelanders has some pretty decent 150/50 templates for survivors. "The New World" is the sourcebook for apocalypse hazards and dangers. If you want in depth rules and inspiration about nuclear fallout, "Disasters: Meltdown and Fallout" is exactly that, but it is _specifically_ about radiation and how to gamify it. There is the "Reign of Steel: Will to Live" book, which is about a terminator-style apocalypse. Plenty of templates for heroes and robots. There is a literal "Zombies" book, which has mixed reviews. It has a lot of ideas about a zombie apocalypse, but if you just want some zombies, I'm sure there are some monsters in another book, or one of the fan-made bestiaries.

As for the Old West theme, I'm not sure if there are any 4th ed books which can help, but there is a 3rd ed book which was about the Wild West. The fluff and campaign advice is probably more of what you're after than the crunch, but there's always the 3rd to 4th ed update book, if you must.

TL;DR
>After the End: {Wastlanders, The New World} (Templates; hazards and inspiration)
>Disasters: Meltdown and Fallout (Nuclear radiation as a hazard, gamified. Rules and discussion about it)
>Reign of Steel: Will to Live (Terminator. Templates for heroes and robots)
>Zombies (What it says on the tin)

Also
>3rd ed Wild West

Are there any rules for building pyrotechnics/flares/rockets? TL 4 game and it's an interesting idea but not one that I've seen much about. I can't even find rules for signal rockets or flares.

>>55174696
High tech and Low Tech are your best places to find guns, powder, and period explosives

Are there any canon limitations for Gadgeteer, like only for certain skills or certain themes?

>>55176059
>Canon
GURPS is a toolset, not a setting. If you want to put limitations on gadgeteer, do it.

>>55176059
I think After The End has some, it's like -50% for a single domain along the lines of "automobiles" or "guns."

>>55176059
After the End and Action 4 have some.

>>55172902
Autoduel is more of a Mad Max 1 apocalypse-lite, but it might be worth reading for flavor.

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If I have multiple attacks in a turn can I accelerate grapple-y stuff? Like grab somebody and judo throw them or put them in an arm lock in the same round without having had to parry an attack first? Or do I absolutely have to wait until my next turn? Any way at all to circumvent the wait if the latter?

>>55177753
As long as your extra attacks can use the same hands (which Extra Attack does not allow by default), sure. In Martial Arts, I think they explicitly write out a rapid strike /combination that's grab>lock.

Extra Attack with the proper enhancement, Rapid Strike/Conbination, and AOA (Double) should all work. In a way, so would triggering a Wait right before the beginning of your turn.

>>55177823
Nice, hadn't seen that. On a related note, thoughts on Striking ST limited to a specific skill? Looking to buy a couple points for Judo, like how Wrestling gets a ST bonus as part of the skill. I think 20-40% discount is fairly reasonable? But I'd like a second opinion.

>>55177753
Generally if you have extra attack you can grab someone with one hand then strike them with the other, or grab them with two hands then headbutt or kick. The somewhat nebulous limits on using the same hand twice keeps you from grab-throw with Extra Attack.

All Out (Double) or Rapid Strike explicitly allow grab-throw combos per Martial Arts.

Altered Time Rate lets you do any combo with no limits.

>>55178095

-20% is solid if you don't feel very generous about it, -40% if you do.

What things can I use in GURPS to help storytelling/roleplaying? I'm thinking of moving from dnd because it's such a war game at its heart, and the social/rp stuff is suuuuper bare bones.

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>>55178846
Make sure to build adventures with a beginning, middle and end.

Give the players questions and choices to make with no right choices, where for example..

They choose between a immediate payment or long term income.

Will help a small community by helping them build a well for easier access to fresh water or help build a wall to secure it?

These kinds of things can go relatively fast and ask the players to make a choice where they can reasonably disagree, and think about how their character would react. Given these aren't win/lose but instead a choice between more or less equally valid options you don't tend to have any player feel burned, even if they don't get their way.

>>55178846
>storytelling and roleplaying mechanics
Disadvantages. Don't think of them as "bad" things, think of them instead as limitations of what a character can do, or how they behave. There are many mental disadvantages that define character behavior, and many disadvantages that require a self-control roll in the appropriate circumstances. Abuse the shit out of that. Ask players to take those traits into account when they roleplay. Limitations also serve to breed creativity,

Allow players who invest points into reaction roll bonuses to see that in effect. Give them a chance to use their influence roll stats. Maybe give them bonuses for playing with what is on their sheet, assuming that it makes sense for the roll. Bad Temper has good synergy with Intimidate rolls, for example.

Mook has some cool blogs on the subject of Fate points in GURPS. The basic notion is to use a mechanic from Power Ups 5: Impulse Buys, called story points. You can treat many character traits like aspects from Fate, which is to say, compel against them. When you do something like that, you might reward a player with another story point, or a bonus to a roll. Write bits into the scenery which bounce off of those traits, and reward players who go with it.

>>55169131
GURPS Magic is good overall, but there are inconsistencies and whatnot that drag it down. If you don't mind combing through and changing/banning spells you don't think fit into your game, it works fine. Even out of the box, the system is fairly balanced in that powerful spells are very fatiguing - so unless you give your players easy ways to get powerstones (stones/gems that contain energy for spell casting) or allow them to buy large quantities of energy reserve (basically fatigue points dedicated to casting), players will have a hard time casting extremely powerful spells without risking falling unconscious.

>>55169861
What's wrong with homebrewing? It IS GURPS afterall. Technically all of pyramid is just officially sponsored homebrewing.

>>55180573
I think that's the issue. If the homebrewing is decent and playtested, there's nothing preventing it from seeing publication; thus, a homebrew that stays a homebrew is seen to be subpar or at least untested and a risky addition. This would go double for complicated homebrews like magic systems.

I'm not defending this outlook, mind you, but I feel it makes sense in a way.

>>55180573
What's wrong with homebrew is what's always wrong with homebrewing: Most are bad at it. Pyramid has pretty strict requirements, which is why you see the same five authors published every month; nobody else delivers (or attempts to) the quality SJgames is looking for.

The benefit of GURPS is heavily reducing the homebrewing required through all of the rules already playtested and written, and giving many tools for structured "homebrew," which is just playing with modifiers and such until you get the effect you want. There is always the option to just make something up, slap a "feels right to me" point cost to it, and play, but that homebrew isn't likely to be balanced and won't transfer to anyone else's games at all, as it wasn't built using the internally consistent, RAW method. Transferring between games is actually a pretty big deal, considering the "default" setting for GURPS is Infinite Worlds, built on the conceit that just about any character can be played in a party. Even products like Dungeon Fantasy and After the End have a great variety of uses beyond their designated niches, and your ability to use them with each other is a product of fantastic internal consistency.

>>55181574
That said, GURPS is also modular as fuck. Hell, in this thread there are home-brew craft rules that effectively turn humans into a robofac with Production/Hour.

>>55180573
Coz 95% of homebrew made to repair broken parts of gurps, which broken only in autor's head, but not to create something new and awesome.

>>55182488
Depends what you mean by homebrew. Homebrew rules and stuff can be shit, but homebrew settings are often pretty fucking cool. I enjoy storytime on here.

>>55180152
This is a great point! Disadvantages aren't things you need to punish a player for taking, they are a way of a player to show you ways they'd like to see their character challenged.

>>55182973
>homebrew settings are often pretty fucking cool
I didn't see any for last years, exept Witcher in 2010. No things like grab-and-go just add gm. Just ugly two-pagers i gave you idea now go make me other things.
I mean i remembers 5 or 6 nicely made setting materials and only 1 wasn't conversion -- anon's Dead Space.
Shit, even exalted conversion and 3e espanol naruto are looks better than most things i saw. Just imagine, Warhammer 40k converions where Space Marines assumed as mens who just trained hard, not as gene-engineered mutants made form kids selected through a rigorous process and eldars who for unknown reason have in template that Forest Guardian ugly talent.

>>55140188
I need a quick and easy rundown on shotguns that isn't that fucking clusterfuck image please.

>>55183778

Shotguns use the Rapid Fire table when shooting multi-projectile shot. This gives them a bonus to hit and their Recoil 1 means that for every point you beat the difficulty by 1 more projectile hits.

So if you roll 8 vs SL 10 then you hit with 3 pellets, and someone dodging it has to roll 2 under their dodge if they want to avoid them all.

Shooting slugs or exotic single rounds a shotgun is treated like a normal gun and tends to have pretty heavy recoil.

You have any problem with that?

>>55183778
Normal firearm rules + B409.