Islamic RPGs

>>55139283
Yeah, they're the same ones that everyone else uses. If you have a problem with not being religious enough you can design your own. I'd say there are ones already but apparently making games is Haram.

How would it work?
Don't they have rules against depicting humans?

File: wue5wei.jpg (59KB, 650x432px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 650x432px

>>55139283

>>55139283
depends on the setting I guess?

While this is most likely a trollthread, I do think middle eastern mythology and culture has a lot of really cool stuff going on that could be great in games. There are already some games that touch on the subject, like the 1001 Arabian Nights board game, but there's a difference between outside interpretations of a culture and that cultures own work.

Of course, we're unlikely to see anything like this unless there's real positive change there. If they actually economically stabilize and start to have enough wealth and disposable income in the populations for niche hobbies to be a viable business opportunity, I think we'll see some really interesting games emerging from there, and other parts of the developing world, eventually.

>>55139283
I played with a group that had 3 muslims in it, even stopped for their prayer time

We played a lot of different systems, but their favorite was FATE so I guess there ya go

File: 119.jpg (35KB, 244x497px) Image search: [Google]

35KB, 244x497px

>>55139348
Not if they're veiled.

All the characters would be veiled and only monsters shown.

Virtues would be emphasized and practiced by all PCs.

Setting would punish evil-doers and kuffar.

>>55139283
GURPS (GURPS Arabian Nights), Fate, Al-Qadim setting in Forgotten Realms, and the Arabian settings in Golarion if you like Pathfinder and have bad taste.

>>55139426
>GURPS Arabian Nights
Was just about to post this.

>>55139283
Does Islam prohibit playing roleplaying games?

>>55139283
Huh, actually a kinda interesting question.
I wonder if there are any RPGs from predominantly Muslim countries. The occasional 'present RPGs from your country'-threads are always interesting, but it's still mostly Europe and the Americas in there.

>>55139383
>>start to have enough wealth and disposable income
>as if Saudi Arabia, the Gulf States and pretty much any Arab country has people who couldn't afford to buy books

You really sound retarded or highly indoctrinated ("poverty dun it!")

>>55139426
>GURPS Arabian Nights
>>55139455

Arabians Nights is sinful and prohibited from Islam. It's un-Islamic.

>>55139469
No, why would it?
To wit, puritanical Christianity does by association.

>>55139469
Yes, along with movies, music and dancing.

>>55139469
Games of chance are forbidden. Pretty strictly, too. Anything else is fair game, at least for moderates.

>>55139486
Um. I can't tell if you're sarcastic or not, but yes, pretty much all the Arab states have indigents.

I feel like Muhammad's early conflicts with the other Meccan tribes would actually be pretty cool to play through, either as a historical re-enactment or through allegory.

It was a wacky decade, and easily enough apparent miracles and enough unlikely instances of untrained peasants armed with nothing but faith beating the shit out of several times their number in trained soldiers occurred to make a believer out of people.

And they have party balance too! It was almost exactly 50/50 diplomancing vs. combat.

>>55139560
They're not 100% indigents, you idiot. Saudi Arabia is a rich country but gambling and RPGs are forbidden.

>>55139283

Perhaps, but it would be just Muslims playing Muslims in game, as Islam seems like the type of religion that can't entertain the idea of fiction that isn't based on its own mythology. Christianity kinda has the same thing going on, actually.

>>55139486

'in the population' is the important bit. Massively centralised wealth and extreme inequality inhibits the growth of hobbyist pursuits amongst the general population, which is the situation throughout a lot of the region, even without getting into the various cultural taboos.

>>55139469
>>55139525

Nope

Sure, Wahabis may throw a fit because dice are involved, but no hard, irl currency or goods or anything is up for grabs.

>>55139396
Same with my friends. And one of them is full-sunnah wearing bearded dude.

Can't help but feel this thread is bait, though...

>>55139520
Kuffar detected.

>" O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination― of Satan's handiwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper." (al-Maida, 5/90).

Gambling is forbidden in Islam and RPGs are considered gambling (games of chance).

>>55139520
Well, mostly due to
>5:90
>O you who have believed, indeed, intoxicants, gambling, [sacrificing on] stone alters [to other than Allah ], and divining arrows are but defilement from the work of Satan, so avoid it that you may be successful.
and
>5:91
Satan only wants to cause between you animosity and hatred through intoxicants and gambling and to avert you from the remembrance of Allah and from prayer. So will you not desist?

Mind you, the question on whether playing a game with dice is gambling is still open.

File: 1476860125300.jpg (92KB, 634x631px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 634x631px

>>55139283
Yes, it's called "race to Mecca". Allow me to give you a ten minute head start.

>>55139582
You could wind the clock further back, to the original unification of the meccan tribes. Play like some kind of fuckin' pokemon game collecting every tribe's idols.

>>55139633
Wahabi detected. Disregard opinion due to lack of understanding and nuance.

>>55139469
And the ten commandments forbid representation of anything on heaven or earth, and nobody give a shit, not even the Christians or the Jews.
It shouldn't surprise anyone that some Muslims ignore at least some religious rules.

>>55139628
Honestly, by our standards this is still pretty civil, all things considered. It's kinda nice.

>>55139657
In case you didn't know Wahhabis run Saudi Arabia. Or did you not know?

>>55139469

Not anymore than christianity does, but anyway salafitshits would do this because muh evil magic, exactly like the bible belt for amerifats in the 80s

>>55139506
Hm, well in that case I'd also avoid GURPS Egypt.

>>55139690
>He thinks anyone here likes Saudis
Your time is coming Wahabi faggot.

>>55139696
There is nothing in the Bible forbidding games of chance.

File: sU62B67.jpg (26KB, 400x596px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 400x596px

Fun fact; "Allahu Ackbar" literally means "God is the biggest"

>>55139650
> PCs must vanquish demons and monsters venerated as gods by various tribes and seal them into idols.

>>55139690
I did know. And they suck for it. Which is a shame, as I guess there is a lot of legit scholarship there that gets swept under the prayer rug due to the House of Saud being tight with Wahabism.

That aside, even though Arabia is it's birthplace, and even though Wahabism is wrecking everything for everyone, neither Arabia nor Wahabism is the 'standard' that most muslims adhere to.

>>55139283
Racial Holy War.

>>55139740
It can also mean "greatest"

>>55139747
>even though Arabia is it's birthplace, and even though Wahabism is wrecking everything for everyone, neither Arabia nor Wahabism is the 'standard' that most muslims adhere to.

It pretty much is because Saudi funds most of the new overseas mosques in the West, in Indonesia, North America, South America.

They have the money, so their ideology gets the air time. Sorry, but whatever your opinion is it's not relevant to actual Islamic construction around the world.

>>55139633

>Gambling is forbidden in Islam and RPGs are considered gambling (games of chance).

True, but at the same time Christianity forbids premarital sex, porn, and booze, and how many self-described Christians do you know who let that stop them, ever?

People follow their religions because they find comfort in traditions. In all but the most backwards hellholes, they can manage to ignore the parts they don't find meaningful or rational.

>>55139782
The difference is that most Muslims follow the Koran/Hadiths while most Christians/westerners don't follow the Bible any more. Muslims are much more fervent believers than Christians, who have mostly abandoned their faith.

Yeah its called Ruchnoy Protivotankoviy Granatomyot - 7th edition.

I think INS/MV (the french game that gave us In Nomine) had an expansion book with islamic angels and devils. Since it's INS/MV and contains a lot of french dark comedy, I don't think religious folks would look kindly upon it, though.

>>55139418
sauce ?

I know of a couple christian rpgs that are complete shipwrecks (and are hated by other fundamentalist christians that consider that rpgs are ALWAYS the work of the devil).

File: CJogfybUEAAi1nO.jpg (40KB, 599x938px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 599x938px

>>55139782
So should an Islamic RPG allow pre-marital sex and other vices, or forbid it?

>>55139767
Oh, they may make some mosques, sure

but Outside of Arabia? yeah. They get no say who the Imam is or what the local scholars say

Which must burn their asses, as in Saudi they not only put their own Imams in their mosques, but write every Khutbah for Friday Jumaa

I seem to recall one Imam got in deep shit because he decided "Nah, frig it, I'm going to not do this state-written khutbah, instead I'm going to take shots at the moral failings of the Muslims and the general idiocy of Wahabi 'scholars' ."

They want that monopoly on Islam, but they'll probably never get it.

>>55139696
>Not anymore than christianity does
Except it's pretty explicitly forbidden. The Hadith even go as far as to elaborate that Aisha playing with dolls isn't Shirk because she was a girl who hadn't menstruated yet at the time (there's an exception to that idolatry rule for girls who aren't eligible for marriage yet. Sadly this hadith also states that Aisha was at the time married to Muhammad, making him a pedophile even by the standards of his own time).

https://sahih-bukhari.com/Pages/Bukhari_8_73.php
Narrated by the child bride herself.
>I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.)

And for those apologists who claim that this only means that Aisha had a very late menses, here's a hadith from Sahih Muslim proving you wrong on that account.

https://muflihun.com/muslim/8/3311
>'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported that Allah's Apostle (Peace be upon him) married her when she was seven years old, and he was taken to his house as a bride when she was nine, and her dolls were with her;
and when he (the Holy Prophet) died she was eighteen years old.

And we're talking about two Sahih hadith here, ie. hadith that are given the highest level of reliability according to Islamic historiography.

So no, unless you're a little girl (and we're all little girls here) playing with miniatures is strictly forbidden.

>>55139843
>They get no say who the Imam is or what the local scholars say
Wrong. Boards of directors are appointed by major donors and guess who that is? Wahabbis control most of the mosques in North America via the ISNA and large donations.

>>55139628
Of course it's bait. Doesn't mean we can't ignore OP's blatant faggotry and have a nice discussion about the topic, anyway.

>>55139867
Ain't no Wahabis in my Mosque, so...*shrugs*

honestly that sounds a tad tinfoil-hat, anon.

>>55139283

Eclipse Phase

>>55139846
So, was Muhammad a fa/tg/uy? I mean, all the signs point to it...

>>55139782
>but at the same time Christianity forbids [...] booze
Nigga what the hell are you talking about? Jesus literally gave his followers booze during the last supper. Or are you talking about the Old Testament dietary restrictions that Jesus explicitly rejected [while rejecting dietary restrictions in general] (Matthew 15:10-11)?

>>55139418
God damn look at dem tittays
>>55139740
Well, he's a big god.

>>55139909
Well, like most of 4chan he had shit taste. He started life married to a provider christmas cake, and ended life married to a flat loli.

>>55139731
The fuck is a wahabi? Is that some kind of spicy sauce for weebs?

>>55139957
It took you more time to type out that retarded post of yours than it would've taken to google the term and educate yourself.

>>55139910
Idiot leftists all think that Islam and Christianity are exactly the same. Illiteracy and historical ignorance are rampant.

>>55139743
Exactly! Sounds like a great adventure already.

>>55139929
He also got mad over tiny little details and kinda hated fun that wasn't his own.

File: 129.jpg (111KB, 1050x1500px) Image search: [Google]

111KB, 1050x1500px

>>55139926
have some more

>>55139994
Not to mention the rape, mass murder, pedophilia and killing men whose wives he wanted to fuck.

So, yeah, a typical fa/tg/uy given huge temporal power.

>>55139836
Me and my bro talked about that, actually

Like an Islamic RPG where you would be penalized for not doing prayers or fasting and the like.

>>55139846
Honestly, I have my doubts the bits in brackets outside of the obligatory "Peace be upon him" can be relied on. Lots of people use that bracket stuff as a way to crowbar in various interpretations or attempts at explaining shit, or wringing meanings from things.

I see it in books on Christianity and Judaism as well. Very difficult to trust that stuff, feel? As who the frig knows who is adding these little notes.

>>55139982
What kind of characters could you play?

>>55140036
>Me and my bro talked about that, actually. Like an Islamic RPG where you would be penalized for not doing prayers or fasting and the like.

Sounds tedious.

>>55140060
Almost anyone really. There's more than one way to get your hands on people's idols, and there's more than one way to realise that you can unify the warring tribes and achieve relative prosperity by doing this. A thief, an exorcist, a warrior, a craftsman or just a persuasive speaker would all be equally useful.

File: 1463140842045.jpg (41KB, 960x831px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 960x831px

Are we talking muslim culture (values) or muslim religion (rites, mythos,...)

>>55139995
>thread devolves into cute muslim posting.
I ain't even mad. Last time it happened I filled my folders with orientalist paintings from 1900.

File: 567853421689.jpg (32KB, 371x473px) Image search: [Google]

32KB, 371x473px

>>55140088
Well, that wouldn't be all that there would be to i, obviously.

But I get the feeling you just want to be difficult and crummy, so...y'know.

>>55139582
>>55139650
>>55139743
Even better, once bound you can call on the various demons to fight for you.


"A djinn? According to the Meccadex that's a fire-type monster. That means I need to send a water-type monster against it.

Abgal, I choose you!"

>>55140100
>just a persuasive speaker
Poet, man.

Ancient Arabians loved their poetry and song.

Kind of like the Norse.

inb4 someone gets mad at me for making that comparison

>>55140116
>But I get the feeling you just want to be difficult and crummy, so...y'know

Oh yeah, totally. But it truly does sound tedious, but no more tedious than any other super detail oriented resource management, so, you know.

File: MIND BLOWN.gif (849KB, 200x200px) Image search: [Google]

849KB, 200x200px

>>55140108
You may think that is a pic showing the progression of your wife noticing you behind her and attempting to be flirtatious, but it's actually just three different wives standing side by side doing laundry.

>>55140100
>A thief, an exorcist, a warrior, a craftsman or just a persuasive speaker
Sounds like a group alright. I call the campaign Desert's eleven.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4Xx0k_TVY0

>>55139283
There aren't any rulebooks for executing players for badwrongfun yet, so I'm going to say no.

>>55139589
Officially forbidden. If you look, the way these things are actually handled is they are enforced in the cities in zones containing most of the city. Anywhere outside the zones they turn a blind eye. So anyone; noble, commoner, whoever, can go enjoy stand up comedy or movies or other things that are normally Haram in the zones. This could easily include games and gaming.

>>55139899
>Hahah kuffar, trust my anecdote, no wahabis here

>>55139355
>pointing an rpg at point blank range.

>>55140278
>TFW Iranian ex gave me a Hijab fetish.

I miss her, hope she's doing well.

simple, take d&d and make it have a little more eastern okay´d themes and stuff
>>55140323
use it as a piecing weapon and blow the fucker away

>>55140341
>not rope he´s doign okay
ONE JOB

>>55139283
40K

>>55140312
Not even that, bro.

Oh, wait. You're accusing me of Taqiyya, right?

Yeah, sod it, then.

>>55139348
No, they have the same anti-idol views as the other jew religions, but they have decided to interpret this as meaning "never depict a human"

>>55140402
Haha based moslem. Truly you are our ally, this rabbi praises you for your deeds in furthering the west's relation with the near orient.

>>55140448
Some fringe Christian faiths go that far, too. It's why some antique dolls have no face.

>>55140402
Ah, and do remember my friend: if you behave well we will consider this year's quota of mossad assassinations finished, do not fear for we are very merciful to our semetic brothers.

>>55139589
>They're not 100% indigents, you idiot. Saudi Arabia is a rich
If you're a member of the Saud family, maybe.

>>55140494
>this is leftist /tg/....
>if you're not a goose stepping shithead you're a commie!

delusions are something you should get checked out anon. Maybe right after you go back to your containment board

>>55139633
>Gambling is forbidden in Islam and RPGs are considered gambling
Only by retards

File: 1420327954848.jpg (15KB, 232x232px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 232x232px

>>55140540
>He says, not realizing that Hitler was an Islamophile, and both Churchill and de Gaulle islamophobes

>>55139978
What does politics have to do with that?

>>55140603
Islam is not British.

>>55140603
I don't see what point you're trying to make. Plenty of people on /pol/ who aren't nazis but are still retarded.

File: Odalisque-596x1024.jpg (64KB, 596x1024px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 596x1024px

>>55139283
Well, Infinity, which has an RPG, has 'New Islam' as one of the major factions. They have their own planet and their own space pirate fleet and everything. Biologically enhanced super bodyguard harem babes too. That said, there are invariably three different reactions IRL Muslims have to Haqqislam:

1. They're a modern secular Muslim and they like the idea that Islam has become more humanistic in the future.

2. They're a modern secular Muslim and they just assume the faction is durka durka and bitch about it all day without ever reading into the subject.

3. They're a 'moderate Muslim' who isn't actually a moderate Muslim, their hackles go up at the idea that Islam isn't perfect in its current form.

>>55140678
No, but Britain certainly seems to be turning Islamic.

>roll to pray
>[1] crit failure
>turned into salt

>>55140243
Anon, small things in living life like laundry are actually cute.

>>55140767
I didn't say it wasn't cute it's just a different perspective on the drawing that can be taken thanks to Islam's views on Polygyny

>>55140341
I know, right?
I was shopping at a Turkish lounge that was closing shop, and this absolutely gorgeous Persian girl who had HUMONGOUS titties, holy shit I never seen a middle eastern girl with such a big rack even if she was cover up to the throat in black and her fairly milf-y mother came in to buy some items.
The girl was hitting all the classic notes, from hair, to make up, to clothing, and I couldn't keep my eyes off her.
>meanwhile, I caught her mom checking me out repeatedly
>should have got digits

>>55140754
And they'll be Westernized just like everyone else. Vietnam chased off the Americans, but they couldn't stop fucking McDonalds. There will be violence and hate, but they'll be assimilated and their culture will be no more. Slowly but surely, this whole world will be Westernized and assimilated into Western culture. Doesn't matter how hard they fight, we're going to shove our culture down their throats till they swallow it, or they choke to death on it.

>>55139348
Well, i would say that for the start you would have to use arabic, persian and indonesian mythology to cover a wide area of creatures, occurences, and what not.

>Jinns play a greater role
>Magic can be fueled not by having mana but followers, so you literally have to take stragglers or slaves and take their worship as a form of mana, so you choose between weaker but more numerous or stronger yet fewer in number followers.
>Casting magic is different from invocation, perhaps a ritual that lasts 10 seconds or something
>combat classes are the usual except for paladins perhaps
>No orcs. Jinns are common and all perversions stem mostly from wicked creatures that have refused Allah. In the place of Orcs maybe mutated humans cursed by Allah.

>>55139283
Call of Cthulhu: Arabian Nights

>>55139348
Islam doesn't have a single unified interpretation anymore than Christianity or Judaism does.

>>55139480
Indonesia is big on horror games (Well, they are asian)

>>55140800
Nothing wrong with having a few wives, so long as you do not put one over the other.
>>55140856
I don't think D&D would make for an appropriate basis anon, it's far too pigeonholed.

>>55139283
Since Islam is all about raping children, mutilating girls and fucking goats FATAL seems like a perfect fit

>>55139782
Christians run on a 'you're gonna sin, just ask for forgiveness and try not to' philosophy. Islam runs on a 'you better not sin, motherfucker' philosophy. Therefore they're far more strict about everything and extremely uptight.

I remember playing a suicide bomber character in FATE once, and coming back to life whenever I took a bunch of people down with me. Probably not a bad deal if you want to run an Islamic RPG.

>>55140853
Quite the opposite has been happening since the fall of the soviet bloc.

Seems people like you will only wake up when your children are going to be the only white christians in school.

>>55139283
playing pathfinder at the moment and subtly insinuating that Rogue Trader might be fun

>>55140853
They are already Western-lite, just the sheer usage of the technology corrupts their lifestyle and they know it.

I bet they have to break at least twenty hadiths just by living in the modern world, from obscure laws to more important ones.

Also, once some scientist goes to check out Quran's "scientific" "ideas", it's done.

>>55140886
Well you really can't do it any other way because it reaaally lacks compared to even the most basic western model of swords and magic. It is not cyberpunk, dystopia, just an even worse version of something already created a hundred times.

African RPG could work, you already have voodoo, zombies (Haiti cultural tradition apparently), witch doctors, berserkers (crazy niggas on drugs), and mutations are common.

You only dont get assasins, too much intelligence required. Plus, fuck that gay shit, we niggaz, we ride, we die.

>>55139283
could play ba-duran people in ''secret of zir'an''?

>>55141080
>it reaaally lacks compared to even the most basic western model of swords and magic
Anon, have you ever looked up pre-Islam/Turkish/Persian myths?
There is a fuckton of material out there than the standard "Arabian Nights" that is well known.

>>55139283
That's a cute girl

>>55141110
How to adapt it though? If the standard formula lacks, there should be a new system i guess...?
That's where it goes eeeeh?
Man, now i want to play an african RPG, I CAST EBOLA, YOU DIE PINK DEVIL.

Khat would also give a bonus on Strength.

Even Slavs adapted their folklore to your usual system and just changed the monsters. Sure, you don't get orcs, but you get all that weird eastern creatures in witcher.

>>55139338
>making games is Haram
source ?

>>55139283
Fun is heresy in the Islam

>>55141163
D&D is not a "standard formula", is what I'm arguing. The only way it would be standard is if that is the only game you have every played.
The first thing you would need to do is assemble your legendarium, and determine the tone and theme of the game.

>>55141239
Then there is no solution until someone finds one. I am not that man.

>>55139396
>>55139628
have them play MYFAROG lel

>>55140629
One side is more likely to conflate the two groups than the other.

>>55139823
INS/MV. There's a supplement called Inch'Allah that treats about Muslim archangels and demon princes, and about Islam in the MV/Setting. The Scriptarium Veritas also had the Muslim archangels and demon princes but without describing the background.

My first INS/MV character was actually a Muslim demon, servant of Ouika, the demon prince of terrorism (the party also had a servant of Anrealphus, the demon prince of sex, and a servant of Bifron, the demon prince of death). Nostalgie, quand tu nous tiens...

File: tumblr_nhj3xmHLTL1s3iomno2_500.jpg (112KB, 500x625px) Image search: [Google]

112KB, 500x625px

>>55140278
>Hijabolic

This anon knows what the good stuff is.

>>55140493
This is pagan idol-worship and unIslamic.

File: 600px-BOL-RPG7[1].jpg (41KB, 600x261px) Image search: [Google]

41KB, 600x261px

>>55139283
RPG-7 is a very popular choice

>>55140603
citation needed for both de gaulle and churchill

>>55141288
The girls need more mascara, fuller lips and more long, thick dark hair beneath their scarves.
>yes, that is my goddamn fetish
>>55141309
But anon, jinni are halal so long as they accepted the Prophet :^)

>>55140853
>delusional cuck doesn't understand what's happening IRL

>>55141361
>delusional cuck doesn't understand what's happening IRL

>>55139843
>but Outside of Arabia? yeah. They get no say who the Imam is or what the local scholars say
Yet they all agree with the Wahabis and want Sharia law to spread to the entire world and to behead the infidels. So the difference is meaningless.

>>55140169
sounds like SMT
but even better

File: 4u.jpg (53KB, 649x623px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 649x623px

>>55139926
>>55139926
>>55139926
>>55139926

>>55141361
>I'm going to ignore centuries of actual examples of social and societal momentum
Look, man, I get it, but the whole of human civ points to the local culture staying dominant, if making incremental changes, unless the entire native population is wiped out wholesale.
What is present now is the unscrupulous who are quick to take advantage of fear in order to amass personal power, but that isn't all that different either.

File: AD&D 2nd edition.jpg (10KB, 179x230px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 179x230px

>>55139823
I was about to say this sounds like it would go as well as every Christianity based RPG that people get the brilliant idea to make from time to time.

You could go with a retro product and take something like AD&D 2E Al Quadim and adapt it to be more in line with Islamic principles and ignore the made up fantasy Arabian stuff.

>>55140853
>They'll be assimilated
That doesn't happen when native birth rates are astronomically lower than the immigrants. In cases like that, the immigrants replace the natives, and the natives are marginalized.

>>55139338
fpbp

>>55141284
Found it.
https://www.xxiemeciel.com/index.php
>good guy Asmodée
>discontinues the line
>gives explicit permission for everyone to put all books on the net

>>55141197
Some asshole preacher or something said playing chess was a (minor) sin (because it "encourages gambling and is a waste of time"), so I don't think playing "let's pretend we're mujahidin hunting dragons" is okay.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jan/21/chess-forbidden-in-islam-rules-saudi-arabia-grand-mufti

>>55141456
Certainly what happened to the Welsh, Irish, Flemmish, Greeks.
>>55141494
Individual imams can talk a lot of shit, doesn't mean others listen.

>>55140721
She's not even vaguely brown.

>>55140721
4. They're a modern secular Muslim and realize that Haqqislam is as bad as everybody else in the setting as Ariadna, and play as the JSA like every third player in Infinity.

>>55141524
It's the future, racial mixity and gene mods are a thing.
Plus malaysians aren't brown.

>>55141509
He's called the "grand mufti", so I assume he's somewhat important.
But yeah, that dude in Saudi Arabia can say all the shit he wants, it's not going to stop muslims in NY or Paris from playing chess, blackjack or RPGs.

>>55141551
*except Ariadna

>>55140088
Like the actual religion, then. At least with Christianity you just maybe go once a year, say a few hail marys and drop a fiver in the donation basket and go back to to your business.

Christianity is the lazy man's religion.

>>55140603
Himmler loved himself that Handschar tho

>>55141509
>Certainly what happened to the Welsh, Irish, Flemmish, Greeks.
Yes, actually. The Welsh culture is isolated to a small pocket of Great Britain where it barely survives, the Irish only bounced back because they breed like rats (quite unlike Westerners now), and the Greeks have been excised from their entire territory in modern Turkey, leaving them basically just modern Greece, and were subject to massive oppression for centuries under the Ottomans.

I don't know anything about the Flemmish though. Still, 3/4 are definitely examples of the bad odds against the west.

>>55140603
>Churchill and de Gaulle islamophobes
Yeah nah. Can't say anything for Churchill but De Gaulle certainly wasn't islamophobic. 100% nationalist, expansionist and a bloody crafty bastard, but he didn't care what your religion was as long as you didn't try to shit on France's boots.

>>55140869
Yet just like them, only some interpretations have enough followers to matter.

>>55139867
>>55139767
>in the West
not in Europe, and even less in France. The govs here don't tolerate shit like this anymore.

>>55139740
What happens if I take your wife's veil off ?

>>55141494
a shame, seems like this imam came a bit too late to forbid Chess
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shatranj
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_chess#Iran_.28Persia.29

>>55141020
They had scholars do that hundreds of years ago. They just ignore them now.

>someone asks if something is true for muslim religion
>immediatly swamped with BUT THE CHRISTIANS

When I ask if an Buddhist or Hindu can do something or if they have something forbidden, they just answer yes or no, but whenever you ask "can muslims do X" you get "NEITHER CAN THE CHRISTIANS BUT THEY STILL DO IT"

For fucks sake guys not everyone in the west is christian or has read the bible, just answer the fucking question instead of acting so insecure.

>>55141642
Aren't Christians supposed to go to church every Sunday or something, according to the RAW?

>>55141674
There'll be the argument that Churchill wanted to use air-dropped gas in the ME to put down a revolt, which sounds kinda islamaphobic unless you look at his record and see he used a heavy hand against any trouble (including the army against a miner's strike in the mainland UK), and never actually did it in the end anyway.

Whether he actually said anything on islam specifically is another matter, though for a time it (or a version of it) was surprisingly popular with the British upper class

>>55141442
The whole of human civ where such events occur deals with the locals outnumbering the invaders.

>>55141746
Sortof? The rules are actually quite hazy, which is what I mean. Christianity is such a loose faith in terms of rules. It doesn't demand anything of you other than follow the 10 commandments which boil down to "Don't be a fucking dick". You can fuck, smoke, swear and eat whatever you feel like as long as you want. There's also the part where you don't get your head kicked in if you disobey nor are you required to get your foreskin chopped off as a prerequisite to joining, so it's problem-free.

>>55141705
I feel you, especially when talking about islamic military conquests

>>55141592
She's not asian either.

The idea of white chicks being forced under that philosophy is really disgusting.

>>55141746
No, but it's the most common convention, even implying that regular services are a must is pretty dumb considering Christian history, especially the early one.
So drop that fedora, edgelad.

>>55141793
Depends on the schism

>>55140853

Do you actually live in a white nation in a muslim area? They do not 'westernize' in the way you think. The muslims in Sweden do not become 'muslim Swedes' (whatever the fuck that means, since it never existed historically), they just continue to be whatever they are but now with a new language, and they all live in enclaves anyway.

>>55141684
>not in Europe
Not like they need a board of directors for that shit when the people are committing violence without direction.

>>55139283
Having any fun that isn't worshiping or thinking about Allah is haram.

>>55141705
It's from their whole "Christians are just secret Muslims doing Islam wrong!" mindset.

>>55141857
So it's like most ethnic groups in America?
Because that is exactly how it's like in America.
It seems Euros do think that immigrants will immediately drop all pretense of their mother culture and adopt theirs because it's "better".

>>55141827
Sorry, I just grew up going to Catholic school and remember that being mentioned or implied or something.

>>55141925
You're missing anon's point. Hell, there's a similar problem in America with Mexicans retaining their culture and outbreeding the natives.

>>55141925
France certainly thinks that way.

>>55141925
I think people just have an unrealistic expectation about how fast these things happen - the Irish and Italian diasporas didn't become part of their new countries overnight, and they still retain aspects of their mother culture - why would you expect it to be different for someone else?

>>55141873
I'm talking about building mosques, not terrorist attacks ?
Are you implying terrorist attacks outside of Europe are planned by a "board of directors" ?

>>55141925
>So it's like most ethnic groups in America?
No, it really isn't. America's success as a melting pot is bbased on overwriting the identity of people with an American one. Sure you have weak traces left, but nothing else really, you just play those up which is why you look so cringy to actual Europeans from those countries.
Instead of trying to make dumb comparisons, just read properly what the other anon is writing. No country in the first, second or third world has ever managed to integrate a larger number of Muslims, including America.
Integration goes against the principles of their inherent Muslim supremacist religion.

File: 15036288215.jpg (86KB, 472x600px) Image search: [Google]

86KB, 472x600px

>>55141654
>Irish
>bounced back
Their population has yet to recover to the pre-famine population levels.
I still wonder what the Welsh are exactly. Scots and Irish are recognizable, but I don't know shit about the Welsh.

>>55141992
There's also the fact that German culture has had a ton of influence in America. Burgers are pretty much a German thing. WWII was what snuffed out the last of significant German speaking.

>>55141746
>>55141793
Depends on the schism. Christianity has all sorts of added or ignored rules, and it varies depending on the culture, since the religion is often times made to be culturally appropriate. 7th Day Adventists have their day of rest on Saturday like the Jews rather than Sunday.

>>55142010
I'm saying they don't need any kind of planning when they are all just spontaneously violent anyway.

KABOOM: the game of explosive zealotry

>>55142024
>America's success as a melting pot is bbased on overwriting the identity of people with an American one
And genociding the Natives, btw. Crucial detail.

>>55142029
What ? My argument was about mosques.
Euro govs don't allow foreign govs to fund mosques in their territory. Very few mosques in Europe are funded by Saudi Arabia, or any muslim country for that matter.

Can you go back to posting cute hijabi babis?

>>55142062
>genociding the Natives

They got conquered by disease long before they got conquered by whitey.

>>55142074
No such thing.

>>55139283
just go out a blow yourself up, you fucking terrorist

>>55141925
>>55141992

It's just our retarded and/or corrupt politicians that think that, and the blind leftists. In most places of work I've been to, when there's just a group of Swedes there, the conversations will stunningly often turn to how shitty the immigration is, how drastically the Swedish landscape has changed in just a few years and how bad it is, etc etc.

The people didn't want this. My country is not the same as it was when I was a child. The change is very drastic.

>>55141847
>>55142026
Well I was born in a Roman Catholic country so we can do whatever the fuck we feel like.

Hard to believe in rules when your own clergy fucks little boys. Just cheapens the belief. In fact that's one of my biggest problems with religions. I understand and agree they are necessary for they still provide a sense of community and strength for many people, but I personally can't help but see them as flimsy and run by fallible people who can and will ignore their own tenets when it suits them. This makes faiths very unbelievable to me.

>>55141806
>drawn in the mangaest style outside japan
>"she's not asian"

>>55142204
Yeah, that's not a manga art style. That's an entirely western art style that's popular for 'serious' illustrations these days. Think they grew up liking anime all you want, but the amount of facial detail and the size of facial features isn't similar.

If anything, it's more like less-cartoony Disney.

>>55141992
I live in southwest Belgium and I can confirm for Italians. In '46 Belgium and Italy made a convention to favor immigration from Italy to Belgium, and it took more than 40 years for Italians to be fully integrated, and even today you meet A LOT of people who say they're Italians when they don't speak more than a dozen Italian words and have been living in Belgium for at least two generations, and "ethnic" slurs are still fairly common. The part of the country where I live is the one where there was the most Italian immigration.
If we take the Syrian war as a starting point for a comparison, since both the '46 convention and Syrian war started massive waves of immigration, albeit for quite different reasons, we can expect racial/ethnic/religion/whatever tensions until at least 2050.

>>55142290
In 2050 there will be more 'Syrians' in Europe than Europeans.

>>55141939
Except the Mexicans aren't a problem, and you are attributing the entire hispano population to a single people. You are making it obvious that you are either a troll, or that damn dumb.
Alright, tell me why hispanics will never gain any kind of power or mobility in the US?
>>55142024
>Integration goes against the principles of their inherent Muslim supremacist religion.
It's hard to have an earnest conversation when you wear your prejudices on your sleeve, anon.

>>55142305
And Mars will be terraformed.

>>55142325
Look at the birth rates, senpai.

>>55142332
Look at how fast science is progressing.

>>55142314
>Except the Mexicans aren't a problem
Even if I had zero problem with Mexicans as a people, I think it's a pretty big problem for the American people and American culture to be rendered a minority in their own country and effectively crushed and destroyed.

>>55142160
The change is drastic because of glut. You are talking about the time frame of less than a generation, history shows it will shake out.
America was direly afraid of the Chinese taking over the country, see how that worked out?
>>55142086
>ignore the absolutely inhuman acts because DISEASE
>>55142074
Eh, I wouldn't mind this.

>>55139283
Do you mean games that follow an Islamic world view? Becuse if so, I don't know of any but would totally kickstarter one that appeared mechanically interesting.

>>55142332
>birth rates
Is it 2011 again?

>>55142343
Senpai, it's commonly accepted that European birthrates are laughably low. That's not some conspiracy theory.

>>55142359
Did birthrates somehow stop mattering in the last 6 years? Did we invent cheap, easy mass cloning?

>>55142373
Eurabia was silly even then.

>>55142383
Good thing we're not talking about a theoretical political union and are talking about basic, easily confirmed details like birth rates and immigration numbers.

>>55142346
Except that isn't going to happen any more than the Germans, English, Chinese took over the country.
Even then, hispanics comprise 2 dozen different cultures, almost all of whom are at odds with each other. You are drinking the fear koolaid.

>>55139283
Dogs in the Vineyard.

>>55141494
Talking about individual imams, could some enlightened anon explain the subdivisions of Islam and how they interact with each others in rough brushes? Christianity is well-organized compared to that clusterfuck.

>>55142233
Dude, you're so full of shit I'm surprised you haven't caught Hepatitis A yet. Go look at some Jojo's Bizarre Adventure women and come back.

>>55142397
Eurabia was always about easily verified (and misunderstood) birth rates and immigration.

>55139383While this is most likely a trollthread
I'm not convinced. While it does seem like it totally could devolve into one, the OP seems sincere enough. And I also can't think of any Muslim RPGs of the top of my head even though the people make up a large part of the world's population. It may be due to my own preconceived notions and the conditions I've been raised under, but role playing have always seemed like much more of an US and European thing (whit tiny inputs from Japan).

>>55142397
>>55142361
What are you waiting to provide us with numbers and their source(s)?

>>55142403
>Except that isn't going to happen any more than the Germans, English, Chinese took over the country.
None of those populations had a massively higher birth rate than the Americans. That's the issue here. It's birth rates. Integration does not happen when the incoming population is larger. That's not how this shit works.

Demographically, it's already obvious. The US has steadily been falling as far as both white and black population percentage goes. White is down to something like 64%. Black is 13%. I don't know about black school age children, but I do know that as far as white school age children go? They're down to 52%.

You keep acting like there's some even spread of Hispanics coming into the US, for some arcane reason when it doesn't even matter.

Do you mean an RPG built on Islamic religious values or one that incorporates Middle Eastern culture and influences?

Are there any RPGs that are built on an actual religion's dogma?

>>55142418
Tell me how they're misunderstood then, anon. Where are all the European babies gonna come from?

>>55142432
If you have numbers that disagree with me, then link them.

>>55142464
Birth rates are a snapshot in time and projected decades ahead not to make an actual prediction but to better understand trends in a field where things change a fraction of a percent constantly.

They also go down and normalize.

>>55139469
Yes, having fun in general is prohibited.

>>55142493
So you're automatically assuming they'll stand trending upwards after a decades-long trend downwards? Come off it. You can't make declarations like that without a working hypothesis as to why.

And hell, even when they normalize, that doesn't mean anything if there are high immigration numbers and high immigrant birth rates. A stable population number is meaningless when the national population number is increasing.

>>55142086
>we dindu nuffin
>centuries later get dindu'd
pottery

>>55142451
Those populations mean little unless they begin to ingratiate themselves into the infrastructure and make legal/societal changes, like school curriculum, gov't shifts, and the like.
Hispanics are too marginalized, mostly on their own willingness, to make the kind of broad changes you speak of due to their own infighting and unwillingness to put nationality aside for self interest.
Having spanish in schools and more hispanic restaurants and grocery stores doesn't change culture, it's adding to it. I live in the northeast US, PA Dutch didn't take over the local culture, it's simple a part of it.
Now eat your perogies and kiffles, you dunce.

>>55142538
>Those populations mean little unless they begin to ingratiate themselves into the infrastructure and make legal/societal changes
Which is kinda inevitable when they're the majority population. This isn't some kind of enforced caste system. When most people are hispanic, then the culture and law will reflect that.

>Infighting based on nationality
This largely doesn't happen in the US. The vast, vast majority of hispanics are Mexicans. The next largest groupings are Peurto Ricans, who are already citizens anyway, and Cubans, who mostly only live in a few areas anyway.

>>55142459
Miles Christi was a French game where you played Templars. It was all about the dichotomy between being both a warrior and a (theoretically peaceful) man of faith. There was a splat for playing hassassins, which were portrayed, more or less, as the muslim equivalent of a Templar.

>>55142464
>If you have numbers that disagree with me, then link them.
I was sincerely asking because I can't find shit to support either side.
Plus how can anyone disagree with your numbers if you don't show them?

>>55142538
>I live in the northeast US
>Thinking he can speak about the issue of mexican immigrants, especially illegals
Try heading down to Texas sometime, or basically anywhere in the southwest.

>>55142589
There really isn't a need for me to post numbers because the dropping European birthrates and the whole 'migrant crisis' are both basically reported on and well known and accepted realities. Which is why I'm asking you to prove your disagreement. It's essentially a fringe opinion, because the main source of debate is whether it's a good or bad thing, not whether it's happening.

>>55142572
>Which is kinda inevitable when they're the majority population
Except their not, and it would take generations for that to happen. Even then, a lot of poor hispanics does not make for culture change on a national level.
>This largely doesn't happen in the US
Do you hang out with hispanics, anon? They HATE each other as a general rule, and shit on each other out of hand.
>>55142590
New York, anon, with it's large hispanic/European population want to talk to you.

>>55140323
RPG's have a safety that keeps the fuse disabled till it's traveled a certain dustance, at least proper Warsaw Pact manufactured ones and not Somali homemade shit.
Not sure what the velocity one has from the starting gate though. Might not be fast enough to do more than injure.

>>55142529
I'm actually saying Muslim birthrates will trend down as they stabilize in their new environment and the usual factors start to squeeze their fertility like everyone else.

Immigration doesn't change that either as Middle Eastern populations are themselves decreasing at near European levels, and the current glut from the Green Revolution ends thanks to worsening climate conditions.

>>55142493
So your approach is basically to ignore the birthrate problem and just take more people in, hoping that their birthrate problem will just fix itself too.

Wonderful plan m8

Alright, this thread is about done. Time to nuke it from orbit.

>>55142624
I'm sorry but i like to have some kind of proof to look at. Right now you sound like you're full of shit, although I can't find anything to invalidate what you're saying.

>>55142653
>Except their not, and it would take generations for that to happen
52% of school age children are white, mexican immigration is extremely high, and you know there are tens of millions of illegals anyway. This has all happened in less than 50 years, so, another 50 years would probably be too conservative for them to out populate Americans.

>Do you hang out with hispanics?
I'm telling you their hatred of each other doesn't matter when you don't have significant populations of more than a few.

>>55142624
why would you lie on the internet?

>>55142671
Who are you talking to?

>>55142681
That's called willful ignorance on your part.

>>55142415
Imams are a bit more likely to agree on things than Rabbis, but only slightly, and they make up for it by being even less organised - there's not much to create "seniority" other than how many other islamic scholars agree with you, and vaguely proximity to Mecca counts

There's several levels of source-validity for hadiths (things Muhammad did/said/thought) that range from "pretty much everyone is sure this happened" to "like, one guy wanted to believe this happened and wrote about it 300 years after the ""fact"", probably not canon" (though if you follow that guy's teaching then you'll probably believe it ). There's an actually fairly serious level of rigour too, all things considered - the number of hadiths with "eh, probably didn't happen, good advice though" isn't small or anything.

The big split, Sunni/Shi'a, is over who Muhammad said was his successor - Sunnis reckon he didn't say and that the muslim community he built up elected his long-time captain, father-in-law and friend Abu Bakr, while Shi'as say he nominated his son-in-law Ali.

So it's a massive succession crisis combined with a religious schism, which goes a long way to telling you why it's such a big split

>>55142669
>I'm actually saying Muslim birthrates will trend down as they stabilize in their new environment
That would require them to actively seek to integrate and for people straight from the Middle East to stop pouring in.

>defending mudslimes

File: IMG_8003.png (365KB, 343x407px) Image search: [Google]

365KB, 343x407px

>>55142415
>Cites a manga with an artstyle that changes multiple times per part
I shiggy diggy

I assume you're trying to argue that it resembles Araki's females c. early Stone Ocean, but even that's a pretty frail argument.

>>55142728
People don't actively seek integration, it happens to them across generations. In the US it happens when immigrant groups, who almost always lived in their own communities and ghettos, become politically active and incorporated into civic culture.

>not being contrarian on a contrarian Chris Hansen honeypot site

>>55139283

>everyone roles a male character
>can only wear pyjamas and have a moustacheless beard
>female characters get a 1/10 chance of surviving the first round, as long as she wears a black bedsheet
>only male characters get to do anything
>attack every non-muslim character, only if you have superior numbers to the enemy
>until then, keep trying to deceive non-muslim characters into thinking you're peaceful
>all adventures involve going to places you don't like to begin with, and ruining what's already there while demanding special treatment

>>55139283
Yes, I store the books in my woodchipper. Go ahead and climb on in to get em.

>>55142769
>In the US it happens when immigrant groups
That's where you're wrong, though. Second and third generation Mexican immigrants are actually more likely to isolate themselves. Not all groups will integrate if there's a vast cultural divide. So your example isn't really correct.

Also, you keep ignoring how their numbers will increase beyond the native population's.

>>55142807
he said Muslim not English

File: carlos.png (77KB, 225x225px) Image search: [Google]

77KB, 225x225px

>>55142833

What's the difference

>>55142824
Literally the only place where a native population has ever been fully displaced is America and that took like 400 years of state sanctioned and occasionally enforced genocide

>>55142824
I'm not wrong, as this is how integration in the U.S. has worked for at least a century. Amateurs mistake political extremism as refusing integration, but by that logic most Americans are no longer integrated.

Whether their numbers increase any further is beyond the scope of political integration (America was almost always culturally divided, and only acquired unity with national news outlets and Hollywood up until the 2000s).

>>55142347

The US didn't make a significant percentage of their population chinese in the span of a few years, and the chinese that arrived didn't have more children than the natives.

Sweden is permanently and VISIBLY changed already, ALREADY. And immigration is still on-going, and the fertility-issue is not solvable through modern means.

>>55142897

>Australia
>Mexico
>Japan
>Israel

>>55141524
...Yeah she is dude.

That said, her body is an artificial shell designed by leading bioengineers to be both physically superhuman and extremely attractive, with in-built pheromone warfare modules and Terminator-like ability to shrug off damage.

She can be whatever colour she wants.

>>55142897
You're forgetting Canada and prehistoric Europe as other examples that spring immediately to mind. Also North Western China.

Really, the uniting element here? The incoming population was largely and faster breeding than the native population. So guess what happened? And guess what's happening now?

>>55142910
>I'm not wrong
You're basing this on what, exactly? You can't take a trend with similar cultures and apply it to different cultures. The fact that European immigrants felt at home in a place full of European immigrants isn't the same as Mexicans and Muslims pouring in.

Their numbers increasing is the entire issue. I'm not disagreeing with the possibility that small numbers of immigrants can immigrate, but when they're large then there's very little impetus for them to, and when they eclipse the native populations, then they obviously never will.

>>55142971
What the fuck is your idea of brown?

Also, humans can't even detect pheromones, we're missing the mammalian pheromone uptake organ.

>>55142938
>The US didn't make a significant percentage of their population chinese in the span of a few years

That's what it did for blacks instead.

>>55142897

What are you smoking? It has happened numerous times in history.

>>55139283
you can pretend some random yuro is a random monster and sink your shiv into his/her flesh
you don't get to rerroll after suicide by cop, but getting arrested might drag the sessions for too long

>>55142713
Whatever mate. Obvisously you're too busy to show proof for your "reported on and well known and accepted realities" and "basic, easily confirmed details", so I wouldn't want to waste your precious time.

>>55142996

Yes, but they were/are not more fertile, and they did not keep up the 'import'. In Sweden, they are and we do. Blacks have been steady at like ~10% in the US since forever.

>>55141551
Ariadna is pretty shit as well.

They treat another fully sapient species like animals because they happen to have a passing resemblance to Earth canines. Half the reason the ruling body of Ariadna wants as little Concillium interference as possible is that said ruling body is in the Kazaks' pockets, and they don't want anyone coming in to disrupt their effective hegemony over Dawn's human populations.

>>55143030
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32929962

I found this in five seconds.

More recent articles keep bleating about there being higher birthrates, but when I actually read them, they included immigrant numbers. Aka, Muslim birthrates.

>>55143030

Dude... I'm another guy skimming the thread, and are you disputing that European birthrates are VERY low (I think they currently are below replacement level even) and that muslim/african birthrates are VERY high? You can literally google this in five seconds and confirm for yourself.

>>55143025
>getting arrested
Good joke.

>>55142949
>Australia
actually yeah you got me there
>Mexico,
is in the Americas?
>Japan
not sure about that one
>Israel
Palestinians still live there and in you know Palestine, Though granted the Israeli government is trying it's hardest to fully displace them

>>55142976
Canada is in the Americas last time I looked and disease and deliberate acts of genocide made a far greater difference

>>55142995
Well, whatever these are made of work with human receptors. Don't get your panties in a twist over it.

And she's as brown as many middle easterners are - i.e. pretty much just an off shade of beige.

>>55142976
Except European immigrants did not feel at home when they first arrived. The animosity and segregation they faced were as bad or even worse than most immigrants face today. You shouldn't apply later cultural changes that managed to incorporate various European immigrants into American society on their original immigration conditions.

>>55143035
Blacks had a high birth rate in the early years of the US because slavers were especially interested in raising as many as they could. Blacks in America have stayed around 10% since forever because once the Confederacy fell and they were tentatively brought into the economic fold they stabilized as a population facing the usual demographic pressures everyone else did.

>>55143058

Media obfuscating the truth is a big issue. It's like looking at Sweden... a few months ago we 'celebrated' reaching 10 million inhabitants... but looking at the details, native Swedish birth levels are not even enough to sustain our own population, or at least just barely breaking even.

>>55143084
You need to clarify when you mean 'Americas' and not 'America', if you know what I mean. You're also ignoring the core point, though.

>>55143086
>Except European immigrants did not feel at home when they first arrived.
Yet they shared common cultural elements and thus integrated. They also didn't arrive in numbers massive enough or outbreed the Americans and thus didn't replace the population nor erase impetus for integration.

>>55143105
Well, another issue is that google itself has admittedly started fixing search results to prioritize their own political stances.

>>55139283
Well I personally like Mutants and Masterminds a lot.

>>55143086

The economic fold. The majority of immigrants to Sweden are permanently unemployable in our current high-tech society. I can link you sources if you care to translate from Swedish.

And a pre-emptive argument: Their kids don't do well in the Swedish school system either.

>>55139283
Coriolis is set in an "Arabian Nights" style sci-fi future, it uses a d6 pool system which is kind of a niche deal, but involves all that jazz.

>>55141456
Except the low birthrates in the west are a consequence of our conveniences and the realities of our society, which will lower the birthrates of immigrant descendants as well, because they too will have to live in that society with those same realities. This has already happened before with different groups.

It doesn't matter if Muslims are breeding like rabbits in Africa. That's in Africa.

>>55143084

>>Mexico
>is in the Americas?

There is a world of difference between "America" and "the Americas".

>>Japan
>not sure about that one

Ainu population.

>>Israel
>Palestinians still live there and in you know Palestine, Though granted the Israeli government is trying it's hardest to fully displace them

Native Americans still live in America... the real point is whether the natives are the dominant force or not.

>>55143115
What's the core point? Poor people have more kids?

>>55143159

We have motherfucking birth statistics from immigrants who live in Sweden as well you dense fuck. They are five times higher than for Swedes.

>>55143159
>which will lower the birthrates of immigrant descendants as well
Multiple issues here. One, they have to actually accept the cultural change. That takes generations. Two, this impact is felt most strongly on the upper class, declining birthrates among the lower class take much, much longer to happen, and illiterate and uneducated migrants will definitely be lower class. Three, you continue to ignore how more and more people from the Middle East keep pouring in, meaning that there are always fresh migrants with Middle Eastern birthrates.

>>55143172
>the real point is whether the natives are the dominant force
considering muslim countries are mostly ruled by small wahabi elites i don't think a massive influx of immigrants would change who the elite is

>>55143176
That population replacement can and has happened before, and always happens when the incoming population is larger and faster breeding than the host population. Which is the case now.

>>55143186
And they're only first and second generation immigrants, you moron. Things change over time.

People said this would happen with the blacks brought over to England to work in the medical sector. Then their population growth stabilized down to around normal levels, because it always does.

File: cyberpunk193.jpg (719KB, 856x807px) Image search: [Google]

719KB, 856x807px

>>55143155
>"Arabian Nights" style sci-fi future
As in, space opera with djinn and shit, or based around the Middle East?

Side note, When Gravity Fails is awesome

>>55143115
>Yet they shared common cultural elements and thus integrated.
Not at all. They were considered alien in almost every way by nativists, and despised for everything from their dress to their customs to their language to their religion. They arrived in massive enough numbers to the point where Germans, for example, became a quarter of the population in a matter of decades. They integrated not by sharing European values but by establishing their own communes, forming their own economies, and then plugging themselves into the wider American economic and government world.

>>55143216
So what do you do then, anon, when even after their birthrates stabilize after four or five generations, there are more of them than there are native peoples? What if fresh immigrants from the Middle East are accepted at high rates, ensuring there will always be first and second gen immigrants who have massive birth rates?

>>55143216

There are fresh immigrants arriving every day, you mongoloid. Do you think the gates have been closed? You are sticking your head in the sand and going la-la-la-la, and your example is ENGLAND? The country which has a muslim mayor of their capital, a capital that is minority white? That's one hell of a shitty example of a success-story there.

>>55143209
but it's always had state backing before and the indigenous population had no concept of or way of enforcing land ownership.That is not the case now

>>55143153
>The majority of immigrants to Sweden are permanently unemployable in our current high-tech society.
That wasn't any different for immigrants of previous times. They not only couldn't find work, they either got preyed upon by exploitative employers at best or barred outright at worst (maybe that's vice versa).

The way out was generally making their own economic niche, not trying to directly compete with the natives in the same market.

>>55143229
Being fair, America had a lot of space for the Germans

The Italians are probably a better example, seeing as I can't see modern people, Muslim or no, going out and buying up land in Europe and making farms

>>55143229

You are saying that germans and english are as foreign to each other as a german and an african or arab. Are you even reading what you are typing?

>>55143229
>Not at all.
Wanna know how I can tell you're full of shit? You claim Europeans had no common cultural elements when there's been significant study surrounding how most of their cultural elements all unite back into the original Indo-European population.

>>55143262

Lifting sacks of potatoes is much easier than learning programming and mathematics. One can be done by anyone, the other requires a high level of intellectual capability (which is genetic).

They literally are not capable of doing the complex tasks required by modern society to any significant extent.

>>55143255
>Always
In most of those cases there wasn't even a state, and people like Merkel repeatedly say that Europe NEEDS Muslim migrants to replace their falling population numbers.

>>55143191
>One, they have to actually accept the cultural change.

It's not a cultural change. It's a societal change, and societal changes take effect no matter your culture.

>Two, this impact is felt most strongly on the upper class, declining birthrates among the lower class take much, much longer to happen, and illiterate and uneducated migrants will definitely be lower class.

Which is why it's really more of a class issue than anything else. People in poverty breed more. Immigrants and descendants that climb the ladder will have less children, those that remain will have the same number of kids as natives in the same social class. The only reason the overall figures are different are because there are more middle/upper class natives than in their own countries.

Switzerland does have a particular problem of its own, in that its 'working class' is extremely small.

>Three, you continue to ignore how more and more people from the Middle East keep pouring in

It's really a quite unimpressive number when you actually math it out and keep in mind existing populations, birthrates, current chances of dispersion through other nations, etc.

I come from one of the supposedly most multi-ethnic cities in Europe. I know better than anyone that the memes about everyone on the trains being Muslim or brown people outnumbering whites are fake as fuck.

File: EU Demographics.png (7KB, 1078x86px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 1078x86px

>>55143058
Oh man, I'm sorry for being an ass and a blind fucking morron, the answer to my question was right under my nose in the Wikipedia I opened when I started searching.
Though to be frank you could have started by sending me an article or whatever, I don't get why you were so reluctant to do it.

>>55142185
Catholics have papal edicts>Bible because the pope speaks with the literal word of God. Heretic denominations tend to lack an authority to justify ignoring large chunks of Bible.

>>55143251
>a capital that is minority white

London is not minority white you moron. British Whites are by far the largest group in the city. Figure out what 'minority' means before you use the term.

You're not worth arguing with if you are either a) this stupid or b) willing to manipulate facts this way.

>>55143268
Not me, that's what Americans in the late 19th century literally said themselves. Globalization has bridged the gap between people of other continents now.

>>55143287
That's your belief, but you should take this chance to study American immigration history. It's quite fascinating. This idea that because Europeans and European-Americans today share cultures we think as being very similar this means they integrated easily doesn't hold water.

>>55143303
As I said, they don't and shouldn't compete in the same markets. The Germans didn't try and break into the slave-plantation industry or become ship-building magnates.

>>55143319
>It's not a cultural change.
It is when it's part of your culture to have tons of children because Allah says so.

>Class issue
Not the case when the new lower class wants to behead the old lower class for not worshiping the same god.

>It's really quite an unimpressive number
Millions of people, every decade who all have 5+ children each for multiple generations, next to your steadily shrinking population of only 500,000? No, anon. What's unimpressive here is your skill with numbers.

>>55141509
Look at native Americans. They were here first. Now they live on reserves without drinkable water.

>>55143319

You are just lying now. I live in Gothenburg, Sweden, it is not even the most multiculural city here. If I go to the closest store, I WILL see more africans/arabs than Swedes. Take a tram-ride, there's more africans/arabs than Swedes. Go to the city-centre... yet again, you'll see more africans and arabs than Swedes. It's not a fucking meme you lying leftist fuck. I LIVE it every fucking day.

>>55143354
>That's your belief
No, that's the science on the subject.

>>55143377
Gå och lägg dig. Jobbar du inte imorgon?

Isn't depicting humans in art a bad thing in Islam?

I guess if the rulebook has no illustratians of humans it'd work.

Either way, the entire idea of "Is there an RPG for [Religious Group]" is stupid is hell. If your religion is that restrictive that you feel the need to have a version of a thing tailored towards members of the religion, it's dumb as fuck.

Same goes for Christian Video games and that sort of bullshit.

>>55143348
>He defends his dying city with terms like 'plurality'.

>>55143348
I thnk if a given population is less than 50% it is de-facto minority. In London White-British is the largest minority by a long-shot but it's still a minority

>>55143327
Because it's fucking irritating to do that while actively arguing.

>>55143383
That has nothing to do with science. It does however have a lot to do with history, my specialty.

>>55142727
>Imams are a bit more likely to agree on things than Rabbis
What's that one story of the Rabbi who was arguing with other Rabbis, and when they had miracles arguing for them he said "miracles don't prove anything", and then finally God himself came down, argue for them, and the Rabbi said "What you say doesn't matter, I'm going by the book"

>>55143354
What industry do you think exists for poor, uneducated sandboxers in Sweden?

>>55143348

https://www.ft.com/content/4bd95562-4379-11e2-a48c-00144feabdc0

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_groups_in_London#Ethnic_breakdown

Considering that we don't know what the fuck wikipedia means by 'other white', we can conclude that I'm correct, or near enough correct (at worst I'm off by 7%).

>>55143408
I really doubt you have any kind of specialty.

We're not talking about perception, here. We're talking about facts. All Europeans have tons of common cultural ground. This is a fact. Posturing over who's French and who's German doesn't change that.

Conversely, there is little cultural commonality between Mexicans and Europeans, and zero between Muslims and Europeans. This is, again, a fact, no matter whether you accept or reject them.

>>55143354

So your argument is that the arabs should start a goat-herding business? And that 19th-century americans said that a german was as foreign to him as an arab? Ok then.

I rly like cute muslins lile mia Khalifa

>>55143392
>Isn't depicting humans in art a bad thing in Islam?
i think it only applies to prophets and The God
bet some immam could make some mola by being the first graphic immam in the west

>>55143390

Näe, jobbar till sjöss och har fridag. SD2018.

>>55143453
>>55143392
>The most absolute proscription is of images of God in Islam, followed by depictions of Muhammad, and then Islamic prophets and the relatives of Muhammad, but the depiction of all humans and non-human animals is discouraged in the hadith and by the long tradition of Islamic authorities, especially Sunni ones.

>>55143422
'Other White' is any kind of white person not from the British Isles, obviously. Europeans, Americans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, South Africans, and... that's all I can think of. There aren't terribly many white people on this Earth.

>>55143421
voting for the officials who will get them on welfae the quickest

>>55139589
I'm in Saudi Arabia, we a have a few board game shops, and some RPGs are sold here, mainly mainstream one, though now a lot of people buy or play them, most of the younger generation plays video games, gambling, sure, that's illegal here, but not RPGs.

>>55143477
Well as we can see by America, that actively hinders integration.

>>55143392
No, strictly speaking they're meant to abide by the 613 laws in Leviticus which includes not making and worshipping Idols but I've never met a Muslim who says you can't illustrate a human or animal (other than god or the prophets). Curiously though I did know a fella who brought it up in regards to AI (which he was studying at the time) where "creating" life was considered to be god's own preserve and thus a fully self aware AI would be Haram in the eyes of some Muslims

>>55143421
That's a question for Swedes and their immigrants to figure out at this point.

>>55143441
Are we? Because the only facts so far are that Americans until the 1930s at the latest heavily discriminated against other European immigrants to the point where they believed their customs to be alien, their work ethic to be lazy, their ability to learn English nonexistent, and their loyalties suspect due to their foreign Catholicism.

>>55143443
>And that 19th-century americans said that a german was as foreign to him as an arab?
A 19th century American viewed an Irish Catholic as foreign to him as an American today views a Muslim immigrant.

>>55143422
>Considering that we don't know what the fuck wikipedia means by 'other white'
Poles, Frogs, Krauts, Wops, Spics, Greeks and Russians.

On the other hand, a lot of the British Indian/Asians will be pretty damn British, being born there and never even seeing India, same as a lot of Italian-Americans

>>55143369
>It is when it's part of your culture to have tons of children because Allah says so.

And yet, just a generation in, most Pakistani or Iranian families in Europe are averaging out at two kids. Pragmatism always trumps tradition.

>Not the case when the new lower class wants to behead the old lower class for not worshiping the same god.

No point in addressing this. You know as well as I do that the vast majority of Muslims don't care about this shit, they just want to get on with their lives.

>Millions of people

650,000 people in total immigrated to the UK last year. Out of that number, somewhere in the area of 250,000 were EU citizens rather than folks from Iran or wherever. Considering that the UK gets immigrants from across the world, that means the number of actual Middle Eastern immigrants was probably somewhere in the area of 200,000, nowhere near a million.

>every decade who all have 5+ children each for multiple generations

Lel no, those households are rare as fuck. Second generation immigrants often have two kids at most.

>>55143377
Sweden has the specific problem of having a tiny working class. You have a legit problem here, but most nations aren't in remotely the same situation.

>>55143421
bus drivers, litter pickers, factory menial, basically any job the natives think they're too good for

>>55143444
>mia Khalifa
Your trips will probably go sadly ignored anon, for this I am sorry for you

>>55143507
>Are we?
Yes? You really don't know anything about the origins of Europeans and their culture development if you're pretending like the Indo-Europeans didn't exist and if you ignore all the modern work done to link various cultural practices and figures back to an original.

>>55141593

Or backgammon. Dear god do they love their backgammon.

>>55143441
>there is little cultural commonality between Mexicans and Europeans
>Spaniards aren't Europeans

>and zero between Muslims and Europeans
>The was never any trade across the Mediterranean sea and European countries didn't have colonies in the Muslim world

>>55143530
janitor, mall cop, uber driver, strawberry picker, courier, cook, etc...

>>55143530
So what about the lower class of the native population? Should they just give up and die because they're not willing to work for slave wages?

>>55143460
>han postar partistöd
>på en finländsk magisk runsten
pinsamt ärligt talat familj

>>55143444
has she retired from prawnz?

>>55143398
>>55143422
The largest segment of a population is never the minority. That's simply not how statistics work. If you were comparing it to the entire rest of the population, sure, but the no other group has nearly the same numbers.

Shit, look at how divided 'Asians' are. The vast majority of them are British Indians, not Muslims.

>>55143578
they should vote Trump, show those uppity elites who's boss
show them fire and fury the likes of which they have never seen before

>>55143520
>And yet, just a generation in, most Pakistani or Iranian families in Europe are averaging out at two kids. Pragmatism always trumps tradition.
Oh, Iranians? You mean the ones that were mostly Iran's upper and middle class and fled after the rise of Islamism in Iran? Those aren't really comparable to dirt poor from Africa and the Levant, anon.

>the vast majority of Muslims don't care about this shit, they just want to get on with their lives.
You should look up the statistics on how many of them support Sharia or want other Islamic traditions to be law (such as stoning gay people.)

>UK
I wasn't aware UK was all of Europe.

>Second generation immigrants often have two kids at most
Citations?

>>55143537
No, I know of it. I'm saying it meant absolutely nothing in the 18th and 19th century, because pan-European romanticism did not exist then.

For example, this is fact:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing

>>55143609
We're talking about Sweden, tardlet.

>>55143618
It meant plenty. It's a hell of a lot easier for two peoples to get along and integrate if they're similar, rocky start or not. The process is much smoother than if you're trying to force completely different cultures together.

>>55143578
well they could do that or maybe they could get of their arses and compete in the market place. Not my fault you think you're entitled to warm house and an internet connection, I'm already having to sacrifice a huge chunk of my wage to give you free health care and subsidised public transport. How about a little gratitude?

>>55143548
Mexicans aren't Spaniards. I think the average Spanish admixture in Mexico is something like 45%.

>Trade across the Mediterranean
And vikings traded with them too. Are vikings similar to Muslims?

And Europe controlling a colony =/= the colony adopting European culture.

>>55143530
>>55143577
FUCK OFF

No one thinks that those shitty jobs are "Too beneath them". It's a fucking myth. The reason that immigrants, illegal or otherwise, do them is because unscrupulous people and companies pay them far below minimum wage, illegally. They are literally the only people who would do such terrible jobs for such terrible pay, but if any of those jobs were offered for minimum wage, 'natives' would happily do them.

This whole fucking argument is dumb. It's like those shitty 'news' articles about how "OH no all the fruit is dying in the fields because there are no more illegal immigrants to pay 20 cents to pick them all illegally, this is the fault of people who want to regulate illegal immigration, not the fault of shitty companies breaking the law."

I don't care where people fall on immigration, but priority should be put on punishing fuckwads who do this sort of thing, and the main point I want to say is that immigrants aren't some sort of saintly, patient group that goes through "hard work" while native population is "too good" for it. Hell, as a white man, I actively wouldn't be allowed to be hired by most of the shady farms that hire EXCLUSIVELY illegals so they can pay them way less, but i'd fucking do it if I could and got paid the federally required minimum wage.

Wages for these jobs aren't low because only immigrants will do them, they are low because business owners figured out they could milk the illegals for work while barely having to pay them.

>>55143623
Replace Trump with your local flavor of anti-immigration political leader and it works just fine.

File: Absolutely Halal.jpg (115KB, 531x471px) Image search: [Google]

115KB, 531x471px

>>55139283
A role playing game for Muslims? Yeah there's a big one going on where they pretend to be moderate and well intentioned refugees seeking a new life but secretly they're murderous jihadis.

>>55143623
Well my dear retard, I'm sure that shithole of a country (Shitweden) could also elect a strong, independent, charismatic, pro-laboring class, politics-outsider to return Sweden to the its rightful owners

>>55143643
>He thinks social mobility is a real thing.
Also you're suddenly sounding conservitard as fuck for someone advocating for muslims.

>>55143596
>40% are blues
>20% are reds, 20% pinks, and 20% crimson
>blue isn't the minority
Really activates those almonds

>>55143665
>>55143668
Not allowed to exist in Sweden.

>>55143643
Fuck OFF.
People that hire immigrants for below minimum wage actively won't hire any non-immigrants because it'll cost them more in legal troubles if it's discovered.

this "Muh illegal migrants are so based for working for 1.70$ an hour xD" mentality is garbage.

Just because dirt poor illegals will work back-breaking labor for far below market value doesn't mean normal, legal citizens should have to illegally denigrate themselves to a job they could easily adjust to but won't because it's illegally low paid.

>>55143636
And I'm saying that's well and good in theory, and you're right, but you're imagining that European immigrants to America integrated 'easily' because of some theoretical closeness, when in fact they were treated as aliens in even worse ways than many immigrants today from Asia or Africa get treated.

Turns out, people don't actually care for supposed similarities as long as there was a politically charged difference of any kind to exacerbate tensions.

>>55143694
Bullshit.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/nov/24/swedish-asylum-support-far-right-nationalist-sweden-democrats

>>55143623
I don't know that sweden does actually have any restrictions on who can be PM, they could probably elect him if they really want

>>55143660
Its the catch-22 of "No way would I work that shitty job for illegal immigrant grade pay!" And "Why do people in minimum wage jobs want a livible wage? Its a minimum wage job!" Theirs this huge disconnect between the fact that someone has to do these jobs and the fact that theh must be paid a decent eage to do it.

>>55143596
Britain has only become less than 99.XX% white within the span of a single lifetime, and not an overly long one at that. I think people tend to regard non-whites as intrinsically 'less British' than whites, so a division of 45% white British, 13% non-British white, and 42% non-white British become '45% white British and 55% not-quite-British'.

>>55143718
Ease is relative, tex.

>>55143729
There's also the problem that the minimum wage is no longer a living wage now.