Ixalan Story Details

>>55136959
Forgot link

https://vronos.com/magic-story-podcast-transcripts/magic-story-podcast-ixalan/

>>55136959
daylie reminder that ixalan is strictly worse lustria

Its aztecs arent dinosaurs, its pirates arent zombies and its dinosaurs arent over the top old childrens book dinosaurs.

Also a critical lack of lasers and frogs

I don't know anything about aztec/mayans at all.
Any good places/documentaries to learn about them?

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>>55136979
That bullshit about Imperialism and consulting the Latin American office, that's like taco bell getting their food approved by the cleaning staff. I really hate Nu-WotC

>>55138748
Why is consulting latin americans about a story inspired by latin america a bad thing?

Amonkhet had an Egyptian working on it.

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>>55138773
You mean a proud Kang

>>55138908
No, she was the one who worked on Kaya Ghost assasin.

The Egyptian on the Hou team was Shawn Main, he grew up in Cairo I belive.

>>55138748
I would love a scramble for Africa set.
couple of evil and neutral empires, couple of different native flavors most of which are pretty evil too. Chaotic evil Congo free state

>>55139205
Yeah but it seems like that would be basically a retread of Ixalan
(Multiple native groups vs multiple invaders)

I do like the theory that Licia and Saskia are from the past of Ixalan though.

>Europe are decadent bloodsucking monsters on a mission to destroy the new world's natives
Wew they don't try to hide it anymore

>>55139919
If I recall, the artifact they're there for was actually stolen from them. So if anything the conquistadors are at least semi-justified.

>>55136959
>Color me surprised, a mesoamerican inspired world that DOESNT lump the Aztec and Maya together.

See, you say that...but the maximum extent of Maya civilization was about the western most part of the Grijalva River in Mexico, which the Aztecs at their height never actually crossed. That is, the Maya and Aztecs certainly knew about each other and interacted with each other on probably a regular basis, but the Aztecs didn't replace the Maya anywhere. Tenochtitlan was more than a thousand kilometers from Tikal.

>>55140061
Yeah I think this is what they are going for, to kind of justify the Legion just coming and fucking shit up, because something was stolen from them.

This is a really cool sounding world.

>>55140061
So the Imperial Vampires aren't just acting out of greed and are actually trying to stop being reliant on blood, while the rebel pirates are seemingly in league with an agent of Bolas? And the Plane isn't a monoculture, has a history outside of the main plot.

Did.....Did Wizards do something right?

>>55140311
I think it was just coincidence, a broken clock is right at least twice a day

>>55140311
>And the Plane isn't a monoculture, has a history outside of the main plot.
People ssy they esnt this, but in realoty... does it really mstter if it ex8sts if we never see it? I mean, its all well and good if Ixalan has other continents, but if all we ever see is Ixalan, does it matter that there are others? All planes have distinct cultures among the races there, sometimes different ones even among the individual races.

>>55140369
yes, it does. Thats part of what separated early blocks like Ravnica and Mirrodin, where you had the feeling of entering an entire new place, from Kaladesh, where all you did was playing antifa in Ghirapur

>>55139919
>Europe are decadent bloodsucking monsters on a mission to destroy the new world's natives
Have historians in the last 100 years said it was anything other than this?

>>55140369
I think it helps limit some of the grumbling about forced diversity, if only slightly. I mean, Innistrad has other continents, so non-Europeans that cropped up in cards had an,easy excuse as to where they came from. Meanwhile, you get something like Amonkhet where literally everyone lives in a single tiny city, and there's no room for anything out of place that hasnt already been established as existing in that city.

>>55140408
I repeat, if we never see those places, does it matter? You didnt actually explain anything. For example Kaladesh had 3 distinct elf cultures, including one that eschewed technology. If we get the same depth in culture even when those cultures arent spread across a globe, why does it matter whether it is or not?

>>55140424
I mean, theres room for both. You can have places where most of the world is devastated and we just fish eye the licing civilization like Amonkhet, and we can have places like Ixalan. But Innistrad is an especially notable example of why I feel it really doesnt matter if theres other continents or not, and at best can be used to explain there being brown people. We know they exist, but we'll almost certainly never see them and they probably will not have an impact on the overall tone and feel of the plane. In other words, the world wouldnt be much better or even really worse if we didnt know Innistrad had other places

. I think by nature of the theme of the world of Ixalan, they had to conceptualize other continents, but Ixalan is the designated "New world" mesoamerica plane, so its doubtful we'd ever get a full thing set displaying the old world on Torrezon for example. I think at best theyd get the aztecs dinosaurs across the sea somehow and kind of do that maybe.

>>55140642
I think having more room in the setting for such things is better than having less. No, we might not ever see those other places on Innistrad, but it's better that the writers have an established place they can pull new elements of the setting from.

>>55140690
Im just not a fan of extraneous things. They gotta be there for a reason. Im sorta okay with Ixalan because by nature to have a new world you gotta have an old one.

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>yfw Baron Sengir is the villain of Ixalan

>>55140860
>when we discover Ixalan is a continent on Ulgrotha, and the monarch of the Legion of Dusk is Baron Sengir and the religious are the faithful to serra

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>>55140860
I didn't know I wanted this till you said it.

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>>55140860
>>55140925
Fuck yes.

>>55140369
The entire premise of Ixalan is about multiple cultures interacting. Its a literal race race.(Like a Race War, but less focus on outright combat and more on finding the mcguffin).

We have two continents of people with two factions from each. AND each Pirate faction has its own style.( Angrath's crew is more SMASH BURN PILLAGE while Vraska's seems focused more on treasure.)

>>55140642
Licia is probably from Torezon.

>>55141692
It's the type of diversity I've been asking for, for years now, rather than just "It's okay, now we have a monoculture with some [whatever] people." I'm surprised at how pleasing the setting of this set is looking.

>>55136959
Vraska has a plan?

>>55141840
Yeah. Diversity actually works when you pick a setting that accommodates it readily, rather than trying to cram it in somewhere that leaves everyone scratching their heads.

>>55141971
Fantasy settings arent 1:1 copy pastas anyway. Ixalan is based on real historic events but for something like Innistrad which is about a genre of fiction, its not like having an asian there breaks the setting apart.

>>55141840
Khaladesh had multiple races with different cultures and attitudes.

>>55141713
Willing to bet money that she is not.

>>55142009
Such wonderful one-note cultures as artificers, rebels, street thugs, and autists. I'm not saying Kaladesh didn't have a lot of potential, but they did almost nothing with it. I'm hoping they'll do better with Ixalan.

>>55140369
I had a stroke trying to read the first sentence of this.

>m-muh conquistador atrocities
>m-muh genocide of the inca and maya
when will darkies shut the fuck up about this, the conquistadors did nothing wrong

>>55142287
We've already established that they're seemingly justified in Ixalan, so I'm not sure what you're bitching about.

>>55142167
The use c17 to seed and olay off main sets though. For example Nahiri and Ob Nix were in c15 as previews for BFZ and SOI.

C17 introduced W vamps to lead into Ixa and had Cat tribal to pkay off AKH, so a flavor connection isnt out od the norm.

The lore implies Licia's Vampire Rome were the invaders of Saskia's not!Briton and that fits the backstory of Torezon(the Roman Catholic Vamps taking over and pushing Humans, Orcs etc out)
Not saying its a shoe in, but its a solid theory.

>>55136959
>>55140114
>Color me surprised, a mesoamerican inspired world that DOESNT lump the Aztec and Maya together.

I'm genuinely interested in the actual difference. Care for a quick rundown?

>>55142169
If you actualy give a shit about worldbuilding, please buy the artbooks if you dont want to sound like you dont know shit. Or at least read the Planeshift PDFs.

>>55142410
We know they will do a not!roman plane so i bet it will different from this.
Also Licia is not pale like the Ixalan vampires seen so far and also seem more "profane" than these "Holy conquistadors" and i think also not all torrezon is vampiric, sustaining a continent only with the blood of the criminals is unviable.

Also note that some of the vampires has elves ears (ancient immortal e the legendary monk).

>>55142496
The Aztecs drove on the right side of the road, while the Maya drove on the left.

>>55142556
>Please spend additional money to get the lore of a setting for a card game.
How about they just print the cards with lore on them? Or am I talking to an intern from WotC? If so, I hope they pay you for this.

The Planeshift PDFs are lazy as fuck, and even then you only get a barebones summary of everything. I cracked up when the stats for the Eldrazi titans were "Just use a Tarrasque statblock from the MM or something" in the Zendikar one. Unless the artbook is manna from heaven, Kaladesh was one-note as fuck, get over yourself.

>>55142691
>How about they just print the cards with lore on them?
because that doesn't work. because storytelling doesn't work in a completely non-linear format, and worldbuilding can only go so far when they have to dedicate room to mechanical test on cards, and art can only be a few inches across. or are you proposing a huge bloat of card numbers to allow for piles of vanilla shit with more flavor text?

>>55142691
What the fuck do the stats of Eldrazi for D&D have to do with the worldbuilding informstion they use for the rest of the pdf? Thats a nice deflection. The worlds are deep enough that they literally can't put every aspect of it on a card, especially when a particular story doesnt focus on it. And a lot of the refer3nces are just flavor text mentions people like you who just want to bitch about something but don't actually give a damn about the world don't pay attention to. The elves who choose to live and thrive in cities are known as Vahadar. Theyre the ones we mostly see in ghirapur. However, elves out side the cities are generally agriculture based and grow the food snd wood and such used by city folk called Bishtahar. And then theres Tirahar, who are elves that forsake technology entirely, and due to the fact elves don't typically identify their alignment, some don't know Tirahar even exist. This is all straight from the PDF, which are only excerpts from the art book. You can boil down any work of fiction to its simplest from and make it sound shallow.

>55136959
OP, surely you wouldn't just tease with that Cathedral Ship thing and then not provide an actual piece of art for them, right?

>>55143019
Dont have the art but titus lunter posted the full version on leddit. It looks sick as shit. I hope we get a legendary one.

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>>55142916
I'm saying that they have the stories on the website, so you have the plot right there, you'd just need to focus on using flavor text for worldbuilding, not stupid quips from our protagonists and "story spotlights" you can already read elsewhere.

>>55142980
Christ you're salty. It speaks to the general effort that goes into these. As for the lore on elves, yeah, I knew that. Some elves live in the city, some elves live in the woods, and some elves are luddites isn't fucking interesting, and it sure as hell doesn't need four paragraphs to be conveyed, contrary to what the dude writing the PDF seemed to think.

Is there a reason people jump to play Kaladesh Defense League so hard whenever I say it wasn't handled well? I never see this kind of asspain when I talk shit about other settings.

>>55143019
I got you, senpai.

>>55142980
Except all of that is still depicted and referenced of the cards of Kaladesh. City Elves, Garden Elves, Wild Elves. Except the city elves aren't really any different than the city humans, the garden elves don't do much because Wizards doesnt know how to depict farming in an,interesting way on cards, and you point out yourself how the wild elves are so secretive they basically might as well not exist, but even they get cards and fall into exactly what you'd expect from a plane of artificers. People who don't like machines? How innovative.

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>>55143141
Whew, that art really is fucking awesome. They better have a bunch of these.

>>55143269
>>55143141
No the art is shit!
Look at how fucked the perspective is!
The big ship looks like the smaller ships scaled up with more sails, the keel is way to high too.

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>>55140642
>so its doubtful we'd ever get a full thing set displaying the old world on Torrezon for example. I think at best theyd get the aztecs dinosaurs across the sea somehow and kind of do that maybe.

Watch !notGodzilla destroy New Vampire City and WU veldaken saying "leylines find a way"

>>55143362
>caring about proper scaling
I'm a Warhammer 40k player, out-of-scale ridiculousness is right up my alley.

>>55143362
Guy asked for it, I posted it. Biggest issue is the lack of contrast imo. It's kind of a recurring plague in the newer art.

>>55141996
its not like having an asian there breaks the setting apart.
But it does. Innistrad is a small plane. Why would we have different races up there? The people should be rather homogenous.

>>55143838
Innistrad actually has other continents, we just never get to see them. It could be a really interesting setting if we ever saw how the world interacts, but Wizards (or at the very least, MaRo) is chronically afraid of juggling too many cultures at once in one plane. Not sure why. A better example would be something like the diversity of Theros.

>>55142338
In the podcast Alison had this whole part talking about the evils of imperialism. And how they talked to the Latin American office to make sure no fee fees were hurt.

>>55142496
They were two entiterly different culyures and langauges that just interacted at times and have somewhat connected religions.

Its like trying to explain the difference between say, Greece and Italy.

>>55143897
I read that they'd written them as arriving to retrieve the artifact, as it had been stolen from them. I'm thinking they're either trying to cover their asses w/ the SocJus side of things or there's some failure to communicate internally. Maybe they'll change it to make them flat villains before it actually drops. Hope not, that'd be a shame.

>>55143838
Innistrad has other continents, including one with were-tigers. Are you seriously trying to say that an Asian cropping up is that out of place when the plane,is big enough to have were tigers we've never even seen?

>>55143141
Its kinda crazy this is only a 4/5.

Sky Soverign was a floating small CITY and it has the same toughness as an elephant.>>55143882
Its not a culture theme its a theme thing. You dont want planes canabilizng or a set overstuffed with too much stuff. Too Many Cooks and All. Scale is flexible anyway.

Ixalan is cross continental
Amonmhet was a city and a vast desert
Kaladesh was a New York style city with lots of different neighborhoods and stuff
Soi was continental
Zendikar Global
Tarkir a fukhuge continent

>>55143897
I think a certain tact should be used with adapting a historical genocide into a children's card game.

>>55143943
I mean, from the sound of thimings it seemed like the faction was built around that idea.

Vampires exist, at odds with the normal people. Someone finds magic sun orb that lets vampires not need to feed off people. Being a Vampire is now immortality with little downsides. Church and conversions spring up around it. Some people leave across the sea, become pirates. One of them probably steals the fancy orb, leading to vamps not having enough food. They're still organized enough to promote fasting and conserve, but have to declare a crusade to the new world for their rock back.

They're still gonna be a bit morally gray due tp building their entire society around some clearly dark magic, but it does give a good reason why simply giving up and leaving the natives alone isn't an option, for good or for ill.

I actually really like the lore in this set so far
The conquistadors are justified and so are the natives
The pirates are dick holes but that makes sense cause pirates

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>>55144022
>"Children's card game"
Here's your (You)

>>55144075
MTG is literally designed for 13 year olds and has been for at least a decade.

It has a decent sized adult demo like Transformers and MLP do, but the vast majority of its playerbase are kids who play casually. The whole FNM-Pro-Format-website ecosystem is basicay this little enclave in a much larger group.

>>55144054
But the Pirates are just the survivors od the Torezon cultures the Vampires over ran to built there empire.

>>55143882
>>55143988
okay, I didn't know that. other continents and were-tigers, eh? Still, we all know they put in those few asians and blacks just because of "muh diversity", heck, they even included a black angel which is just outright wrong.

>>55144071
The Pirates are refugees because there Great Grand parents got kicked out there homeland by a blood cult.

Everyone has reasons to get the Immortal Sun amd everyone is kinda a dick (except maybe the merfolk)

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So a closer look reveals that this might be some of the worst art we've seen in a long, long time.

>>55144375
There were asians and blacks in the first Innistrad. Or I suppose I should say Asian and Black, since i think it was just one of each.

Still, while the diversity was a bit forced in spots, the fact that it does have those other areas of the world helps in that regard.

Either way, the complaints I've been seeing about the diversity they're pushing in Ixalan feel laughable by comparison. People bitching about pirate women or black pirates existing.

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>>55136959
Vampire Faction: Legion of Dusk
>So these vampires are part of the Legion of Dusk. It is an alliance between a powerful church and an iron-fisted monarch. The Legion of Dusk comes from the continent to the east, called Torrezon. The vampires who lead the Legion of Dusk are viewed as holy figures, dark paladins and their undead existence is full of ritual and taboo. Most importantly, they feed only on the blood of the guilty: enemies of war, rebels of the state, or heretics who defy the church. They seek an item called the Immortal Sun, which once belonged to them, but was stolen and brought across the sea to Ixalan. And they pray its power will allow the hopes of the church to be fulfilled and eternal life be available to all without the need to subsist on the blood of the wicked.

>To kind of go into a bit more history about them, the Legion of Dusk began a series of wars centuries ago in Torrezon and eventually kind of took over the whole continent. So they spread their kingdom across this entire place, really disrupting pretty much everything else there. And they have brought their ships and their conquistadors to find this item that they think will allow them to live an eternal existence without needing blood to survive.

>>55144375
>>55144461
Also, if you're referring to Goldlight Castigator being wrong, I would point out that Angels are supposed to be White mana constructs, while she's mono-Red and is going around murdering people thanks to Eldrazi influence.

It isn't exactly a 'right' angel.

>>55144445
this was supposed to be artist's mother, lol

>>55144529
>hired to draw legendary lady pirate
>don't draw inspiration from any really famous pirates
>just draw my mom lol

This pisses me off more than anything.

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>>55144506
Dinosaur Faction: Sun Empire

>AL: Dinosaurs. So dinosaurs are native to Ixalan. They have colorful feathers, like in science! The dinosaurs are closely tied with the Sun Empire, one of the four key groups of Ixalan. Like South America and Mesoamerica’s great empires, the Sun Empire are an empire with a capital and a central power structure. The Sun Empire has awakened after long years of quiet. Besieged by pirate raids and the advance of the Legion of Dusk, caught between the invaders from the sea and the wall of jungle behind them, the Sun Empire rises with the ferocity of a dinosaur and the righteous light of the radiant sun to fight off its enemies.

>BR: Also with actual dinosaurs.

>AL: Also with actual dinosaurs. The Sun Empire is in a new era of prosperity. Fueled by the magic of their sun priests and the dinosaurs that they command. Their cities are built to accommodate their dinosaur riders with high arches to allow their knights to pass through unobstructed. And just for some chronological stuff, the Legion of Dusk only started arriving maybe two years ago, like fairly recently. And the Sun Empire is strong enough that they can fight them off fairly easily. Also they have dinosaurs.

>BR: And they ride them?

>AL: And they ride them, yes. They can ride dinosaurs, they can command them, they are their steeds in their fight to not only rule their own empire on Ixalan but also to prevent other people from coming onto it.

>BR: So are the dinosaurs all—domesticated isn’t quite the right word—but are there wild dinosaurs?

>AL: Oh yes. There’s a lot of them. They are definitely not just like cows and horses. There are definitely wild dinosaurs, there are pterosaurs, there are all sorts of very familiar looking dinosaurs to our modern sensibilities. And there are also ones that the Sun Empire uses and rides for domestic tasks.

>>55144519
angels being red and murderous was nothing wrong - lore explains it properly, all angels had it in themselves. Now, why a living mana construct would be black (given how pretty much everything else (humans and not) is white caucasians), now that's something that rustles my jimmies.

>>55144506
>>55144556
Can you link the article so I can bounce it over to a friend? I want to confirm the legitness as well

>>55144006
Kaladesh isnt just Ghirapur and irs various districts. Peema, where rishkar is from, for example is a completely different place. The consulate is just centered in Ghirapue and the story was about them.

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>>55144556
Merfolk Faction: River Heralds

>So merfolk are the River Heralds, that is the name of their group. So they are people of the water. They wield the natural, raw force of nature to protect the world from disaster. They were once the dominant inhabitants of Ixalan with a large power of their own, and their strength was once enough to drive the Sun Empire out of the interior. Nowadays that the Sun Empire is a lot bigger and a lot more powerful, they live a more nomadic lifestyle. Powerful shamans can shape the rivers and jungles around them and they believe that this place that—no one really knows where it is—called the Golden City, houses the Immortal Sun and must be kept hidden from all, even themselves.

>The merfolk in the set are visually striking; jade jewelry and weapons and armor. And their appearance is one of my favorite depictions of them in Magic. Their fins are colorful and bright like tropical freshwater fish and a lot of Ixalan, the continent’s, history is between the struggle of the merfolk and the humans who live there. Kind of like struggling against each other like who’s in charge, who’s not. Their history is pretty vast. I’m certain part of it will end up in the art book later, which you should totally buy because it’s really pretty, but yeah.

>The merfolk have kind of taken it on themselves to defend the Golden City since they believe that no one should have the power that lies inside of there. So to protect its secrets, the kind of know where it is, but not the exact location. They’ve been making sure no one gets there for centuries.

>>55144556
>They have colorful feathers, like in science!
This annoys me to no end. Wizards clearly knows nothing about science or dinosaurs. Putting feathers on anything that isn't small/medium theropods is anti-science as much at it gets. They could try covering their asses by saying that it's a reference to feathered serpents from the mythology, but NOOO, they "scientifically accurate" dinosaurs.

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>>55144615
Pirate Faction: Brazen Coalition
>Our pirates are also the descendants of refugees. Their ancestors are from Torrezon, the continent to the east. The Legion of Dusk conquered the continent over hundreds of years of war, and the pirates we see today are the children’s children etc. of those that escaped to the sea. They formed the Brazen Coalition, a society that answers to no one but themselves. They may not have a land to call their’s, but they own the seas. They seek the Immortal Sun as well, an ancient prize rumored to be more valuable and powerful than any other in existence. One that could possibly be the key to returning to Torrezon and driving out the Legion of Dusk to reclaim their ancestral lands.

>>55144583
Well, firstly you aren't questioning why a white mana construct resembles a humanoid at all, let alone them all looking like human women. That's standard for,magic though.

Of course, the reasonable answer is that Angels resemble inhabitants of the plane, so it's possible that an angel may wind up resembling someone from one of those other continents of Innistrad.

Of course, you seem to dislike that idea, as well as the idea that the Eldrazi influence might cause some 'glitches' as it were, so it sounds like you just want to complain rather than actually sort out why that might be the case.

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>>55144556

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>>55144629
It plays off the feathered serpents of mesoamerican lore.

>>55144656
>why algels look humanoid
gee, I don't know, maybe it's because that's what angels fucking are?

>dislike eldrazi glitches
I have not said a word against eldrazi corruptions. I'm against there being a black Angel on a plane that has it's primary population consisting of caucasian people.

>>55144629
The t rex had feathers

>>55144700
>They could try covering their asses by saying that it's a reference to feathered serpents from the mythology
that's what I'm saying, but instead they keep bringing up them being this way because "science lol". However putting feathers on everything is actually quite the opposite of "scientific accuracy".

>>55144721
What exactly in the lore of Innistrad means a black angel doesn't make sense?

Fucking Khaladeshi Angels are bright pink

>>55144729
not anymore. I think such claims were "scientifically accurate" for about a year or less and then became "outdated science". Google it up.

>>55144594

https://vronos.com/magic-story-podcast-transcripts/magic-story-podcast-ixalan/

>>55144744
Where are you getting the idea large dinosaurs didnt have feathers?

>>55144721
>I have not said a word against eldrazi corruptions

You seemed to dislike the idea that this particular angel might be atypical for that reason.

>a plane that has it's primary population consisting of caucasian people.

Again, continent, not plane. Secondly, you said yourself primarily. Angels resemble the inhabitants of the plane to a degree. That's pretty clear. So what's the trouble with a minority of the angels resembling a minority of the people?

>>55144748
consistency. things can look whatever way you decide - in one plane one way, in another - a different way (angles on Amonkhet - male, everywhere else on magic - female for example). However on Innistrad every angel was looking like white female and the "muh diversity" happened just because.

>>55144766
I am, what I'm getting is that earlier T rexs had more plumage while later on ones were mostly scaley with pummage limmited to the back.

As in it depends on the type of t rex.

Which loops back to my point that yeah not all dinosaurs had feathers aparrently, but size didnt have anythign to do with it.

>>55144615
Ixalan merfolk are the most fuckable

>>55144721
Why does an angel have to physically resemble the majority of the human population? Can you cite a source for that rule? I don't recall that ever being a part of MtG's lore but I could be wrong, if you can show me where you found that information.

>>55144824
Are you seriously saying that out of the countless angels of Innistrad, one of them (that we saw) being black doesnt make sense?

Are you assuming Sorin made all his angels white on purpose or something?

>>55144843
It doesnt. Khaladesh angels are pink and multi armed

>>55144788
>You seemed to dislike the idea that this particular angel might be atypical for that reason
I didn't. Her being blackhas nothing toi do with eldrazis, gety your shit straight anon.

>>55144788
that's the point. The continent alone is too small to house multiple races.

>>55144544
on the other hand
>hired to draw legendary lady pirate
>don't draw inspiration from any really famous pirates
>fuck those autistic neckbeards, i'mma draw my mom
top keks

>>55144506
they don't seem like conquistadors at all except for the aesthetic, there's no reason they couldn't cooperate with the merfolk at least to find the immortal sun before they leave

>>55144872
I like that she is old.

She is an admiral, not a ground troop, makes sense for her to be older like how our miliatary admirals and generals are. Takes time to get to that high a rank.

>>55144777
>Where are you getting the idea large dinosaurs didnt have feathers?
actual knowledge of the subject? Reading articles? being in general interested i nthe subject?
>big dinosaurs
big theropds? There:
http://westerndigs.org/t-rex-didnt-have-feathers-new-study-of-fossil-skin-finds/
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2017/jun/07/feather-furore-trex-may-not-have-been-fluffy-after-all-skin-study-suggests
there's only one recorded case of "feathered" larger theropod, which wasn't actually feathered and lived in cold climate so had fur-like proto-feathers for heat-insulation. All other cases of theropods skin impressions contains scales, including Trex'es and his relatives.

>>55144865
>why is this angel black? It makes no sense
>maybe its that eldritch monster flying around
>no, it cant possibly be that. It must continue to have no explanation

Right. So her being Black is out of place, but also cant have anything to do with that whole reality-bending threat going on. That's 100% confirmed.

>>55144632
>that monkey in the lower left
>fuuuuuuck this

>>55144744
>"science lol"

not an argument

>>55144927
The merfolk dont want anyone to find the Immortal sun. Their whole shtick is keeping the city hidden, its a 4 way royale.

In fact they made sure to get art/story of every faction fighting every other faction.

They all want to get to the Sun first for different reasons.

>>55144865
Hence the point that she could look like individuals from other continents, as she is an angel of a plane rather than an angel of a specific continent of a plane.

The obvious answer is that yes, Wizards decided to make a black angel for the sake of diversity, no one will dispute that. However, the existence of a black angel on Innistrad doesn't break the lore in any shape or form. It can be explained. There is literally no lore-based reason why all angels on Innistrad have to be white women. They simply chose to have more than just white women as angels in SOI for the sake of diversity, whether you agree with the concept of diversity or not.

Sure, there was an agenda behind it but it does not break any lore simply because it makes you angry, anon. There were no rules saying "Innistrad's angels can only be white." You just hadn't previously seen any non-white angels on Innistrad.

>>55144830
look at links in >>55144966
what you are getting is bullshit.
>hurr durr we have skin impressions with scales of all over T-Rex's body
>hurr durrr that means all the places we don't have skin impressions of must have had feathers
>hurr durr thats how science works kids

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Serious question: Why are there so many kangz in this set?

>>55144974
her being black (skin color) is related to a race
her being mad and murderous is related to eldrazi
Is this really so hard to get for you?

>>55145032
The same reason there were so many among pirates in real life.

Can you save the complaints for a plane where it doesn't make sense?

>>55145032
Because Wizards of the Coast wants to represent black people in their cards?

I'm sorry, did you really need to ask that question? The answer seems pretty straight-forward.

>>55144966
>These findings indicate “that most (if not all) large-bodied tyrannosaurids were scaly,” the authors of the study write. They add that the T. rex may have had some feathers, but the plumage was likely limited to the dinosaur’s back.

>Since there is ample evidence to suggest that earlier tryannosaurs had feathers, the study’s conclusions would mean that tyrannosaurs evolved a feathery coat, only to eventually lose it.

>There was, however, at least one massive tryannosaur that had feathers. The Yutyrannus, discovered several years ago in China, stretched about 30 feet long and was covered in fine feathers. This dinosaur was smaller than the T. rex, but about the same size as the Albertosaurus and Gorgosaurus, which means that size can’t be the only factor that determines whether or not a dino sports a downy coat. So the authors of the study offer an additional hypothesis: the Yutyrannus had feathers because it lived in shady forests, which helped the dinosaur keep its cool.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/t-rex-skin-was-not-covered-feathers-study-says-180963603/


Thanks for the share

>>55144995
again, it must be consistent. You could argue the other races comes from different continents, but the angels aren't like that. The continents native population is white, and so are angels.

>>55144995
Why does it have to be a wotc socjus conspiracy?

Maybe the artist just wanted to draw the angel black, hell random characters on planes have looked like all kinds of races. Like that asian in Survive the Night.

>>55145094
I miss Dominaria, where the plane was just large and cosmopolitan enough that everyone had a presence everywhere and we didn't have to have these conversations.

>>55145032
Whats your barometer for "so many?"

>>55145071
>the angels aren't like that

Clearly they are, or why would there be a black one?

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>>55144445
Wow, it's almost like those homosexual cucks working on this game are allergic to hot waifus or something.

>>55145071
>Black people are clearly a minority in Innistrad
>Black angels are clearly a minority in Innistrad
>It's never stated anywhere in the lore of any set that Angels need to match their native population
>How angels work even varies from plane to plane
>But there being black angels breaks the lore because ???

>>55145126
Please. We all know good and well if this site existed then, we would get endless shit about Teferi and Sissay.

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>>55145071
Please cite the source of the rule saying that the ethnicity of angels must be the same as the ethnicity of the continent of the plane that the angel can be found on. The burden of proof is on you, as you are the one frequently referring to this rule.

In addition to that, please recognize that there are black individuals in the native population of the only known continent of Innistrad, with no reference to them coming from any other continent in the lore. So in fact, even if the rule you are referencing is correct, these black angels are in fact consistent with the black individuals in the native population of the primary continent of Innistrad.

>>55145067
see >>55145011
The general problem that a lot of our current knowledge about dinosaurs is based on speculation and things end up being refuted all the time. Large theropods having feathers (I mean proto-feathers, because actual feathers is a medium/small thropod thing only) has almost none actual proof to support the therory, but a lot of entusiasts that thinks it's coll and so they support such therories. Dinosaurs articles are also often very one-sided as writers delibaretely choose to cherrypick arguments.

>>55145126
Innistrad hypothetically is pretty diverse, but we've literally only seen their not!Europe. There might be asian angels over in their not!China and even more black angels in their not!africa, but we haven't seen them.

>>55145128
You know the answer to that question.

>>55145142
because CONSISTENCY. If you decide how angels on this plane/continent look, then you are supposed to make them look like this and not deviate from it.

>>55145155
I dunno, I've only ever seen Teferi get love here.

>>55145168
I've been bitching about this for years now. I want to see those other continents.

>>55145160
It seems ixalan dinos arent fluffy covered like chickens, but have patches and crests of featheres like that smithsonian

>>55145185
Yeah, and they look like human women from the Plane of Innistrad, except with big wings and more thigh-highs.

What's the conflict? Where's this rule they're breaking?

>>55145185
Yes, they look like winged human women of the ethnicities that exist on Innistrad.

White people exist on Innistrad, so do black people.

>>55145160
It seems ixalan dinos arent fluffy covered like chickens, but have patches and crests of featheres like that smithsonian piece suggested.

It seems to me its like how we evolved from fully furred apes to just having hair on our extremities as we got to warmer climates, which seems to jell with these tropical dinos having their feathereds in specific spots.

>>55144864
>Are you assuming Sorin made all his angels white on purpose or something?
He basically did, yes. He made them all look like his ideal of beauty, as exemplified by his first and most loved angel.

>>55145283
Avacyn was the only angel made by Sorin though.

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Angels are representative of the native population of Innistrad.

>>55145226
race. They inserted a black angel among the causasian angels and that breaks CONSISTENCY. Angels aren't people, they don't migrate from one continent to another. I couldagree that if there's a continent where mainly black people live their angels could be black.

>>55145159
I'm not saying they must be similar, I'm talking about being CONSISTENT. see above.

>>55145185
We have literally no in universe mechanism that know of that dictates how angels should look, but you're saying that for some reason, they all need to share the cookie cutter of "attractive white woman" for literally no other reason than that's what most of them looked like?

That's fucking stupid. By that logic, every Angel should look lliterally identical because hey, they decided that that's how angels on this plane and continent looked.

Of all the dumb things in our return to Innistrad, of all the stupid bullshit, questionable decisions, and everything else involved in that shitshow, you chose THIS to whine about? You chose this to have an autistic bitchfit about? Seriously?

>>55138773
Because they don't get latin americans. They get a faggot SJW chicano who thinks Aztlan was a real thing.

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>>55145318
Angels are representative of the native population of Innistrad.

>>55145168
Is the main Strad continent even meant as a a not!Europe?

I mean its fashion is prussian( which doesnt really fit the genre that well since Gothic Horror is pretty British/Serbian esque in its corpus) like, just because Ravnica has a bunch of slavic names everywhere I wouldnt call it not!Ruasia.

Its not like Amonkhet were they were taking an irl culture. It was basically Halloweentown that looks Prussian becasue some guy thought it looked cool.(Like how Khaladesh is Epcot with a Mughal theme because some guy thought it looked cool.)

Hell I always find fantasy that copy pastad irl continents kinda lame, like Yun-Ti . I usually prefer when you make your own stuff based on a mash of various historical influences, unless you are deliberately doing a genre like say, Jidai Geki or in this case the Pirate Age.(Amd even then there is a certain flex)

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>>55145216
actual feathers (what we see on Ixalan dinos are actual feathers, not proto-feathers) is a greatly advanced trait that was developed among smaller/medium therapods long after the large T-rex dinos departed genetically. Putting feathers on sauropods/saurischia or fucking pterosaurs is a crime against science.

>>55145354
Wait, really?

>>55145358
>>55145316
This Innistrad's continent is too small to support different races. We have not countries, but several cities and regions. The native population is white and blacks/asians are here either because they migrated in or were inserted because "muh diversity" without thinking about it.

>>55145318
>race
>angels aren't people

If angels,aren't people, then they have no . Them cropping up in a different shade may be natural

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>>55145389
All that matters is that the angels of Innistrad are representative of the native population of Innistrad and this has remained consistent.

>>55142496
The mayans were a relatively peaceful jungle empire that was mostly seclusionary. The aztec were a militant expansionist bronze-age Venice in the midst of mountain ranges.

>>55145215
Any character who isnt a straight white guy in any sort of game or comic or show or film that debuted after say 2013 or so gets heralded as the product of some insidous sjw conspiracy.

My Homeboard is /co/. For some reason Claremont Minoriteam X-Men or all the legacy heroes from the 90s are idolized(DC got TONS of shit for cutting them for the new 52) but after the whole "culture war" became a thing, ita a sacrilege.

Its like night and day. Jaime Reyes(2006) cool. America Chavez(2011) REEE ET OUT MY COMICS.

This dude is sperging out over some generic angel just because it happened to be black.

Some guy shatpost an entire thread here that got to like 400 posts about how wotc was purging "white bearded pirates" even after anons posted a shit ton of white pirates with beards

>>55145320
Read what I'm saying. I'm repeating the word over and over again, capitalize it, but it keeps passing over your ability to grasp it's importance. CONSISTENCY. If you decide that angels on this plane/continent looks as "XXX", then you need to be consistent with it. A factor of difference such extreme as a race/gender shouldn't be allowed to exist.

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>>55145389
Cite the source of your information that non-whites migrated to the known continent of Innistrad from other continents and cite the source of your information that angels only represent the native population of the known continent of Innistrad rather than all of Innistrad as a plane.

>>55145407
angel's aren't people, but if you decide that they look identical to winged caucasian females, I' would expect you to keep consistent about it.

>>55145415
the previous itteration of Innistrad had much much less of those. It's just "muh diversity" all over again, but this is much more justifiable than including a black angel.

>>55145360
The article quoted literally said some tyransaurs had feathered though. The same one supporting your point that feathered dinos were overhyped.

>>55145451
that's the problem you dingus. Original Innistrad was white with just a few instances of black/asian people. Ahnd new Innistrad is somewhy full of blacks. Magic.

>>55145439
Jesus let him go even under his owm crazy logic a black angel makes sense becasue of all the black people in Innistrad, but now he is saying black PEOPLE dont make sense, because the continent is too small for multiple races.

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Goldnight Castigator's appearance is consistent with that of other angels as looking like winged humans native to the continent of Innistrad on the plane of Innistrad.

By the way, have some art from the Innistrad set.

>>55145488
Presumably they may have seen a slight increase in immigration following the return of the Angels, which got rid of a bunch of monsters.

Of course, we're not here tothink about logical reasons for why a character looks a certain way. We're here to birch and moan about blacks under the pretense of 'inconcistency'.

>>55145481
>They add that the T. rex may have had some feathers, but the plumage was likely limited to the dinosaur’s back.
>MAY HAVE HAD
translated from scientific language, that means:

there's literally no proof and all current actual proofs point otherwise, but the truth is ultimately unknown so we won't claim the absolute lack of something to not look fools. Just in case, even if chances of prot-"feathers" being discovered are close to zero.

It also means:
>hurr durr we have skin impressions with scales of all over T-Rex's body
>hurr durrr that means all the places we don't have skin impressions of must have had feathers
>hurr durr thats how science works kids

>>55142009
>with different cultures
No, it didn't.
Everyone in Giraphur was of Giraphur. They had different socioeconomic standings and different subcultures, but all we saw from Kaladesh was a monoculture.
In ixalan the sun empire and the merfolk actually have different lifestyles and naming conventions, and the vampires are completely alien to them. That is having different cultures, not the aetherborn being suicidal criminals who still largely act like Giraphurans.

>>55145488
Yes, because Wizards of the Coast wants to increase representation of black people in the art of Magic the Gathering.

You're welcome to have your own subjective opinion about that, but please state why doing that objectively breaks the lore of Magic the Gathering.

>>55145510
>By the way, have some art from the Innistrad set
That's what I'm talking. Original Innistrad had very few non-whites. This with the fact that Innistrad is too small to support multiple races means they either migrated in (are non-natives) or were inserted without thinking or reasoning, which is exactly what I'm bitching about.

>>55145439
Ah, I see the confusion. You think that the only reason someone could ever disagree with you is that they aren't seeing things your way. Let's nip this in the bud: We do see what you see. We just find what you see to be fucking retarded.

Innistrad Angels are consistent. They look like the people of Innistrad. It juts so happens that there are black people in Innistrad, and they've probably been in Innistrad for several generations. Most people in Innistrad are white, and a minority of them are black people.

Therefore, it is entirely "Consistent" with the depiction of Angels in Innistrad that while the majority of them are white, a small minority of them are black.

>>55145563
>but please state why doing that objectively breaks the lore of Magic the Gathering
it brings inconsistency into the lore. They are literally retconning lore because they can't be bothered to think.

>>55145585
Please cite the source of your definition of angels as winged human women that only look like beings native to one geographical region of the plane of Innistrad, because now you are arguing against angels consistently representing the human population of Innistrad as a plane. I thought you were in favor of consistency.

>>55144506
Going to be honest, this entire setting sounds dope as fuck. I'm actually quite hype for this.

>>55140358
>a broken clock is right at least twice a day
That would be a stopped clock, I would have equated WotC to be a clock that was slow by a minute.

>>55145610
I have one idiot asking me to cite where it is written that angels look after people of the continent
I have another idiot telling me that angels do look after people of the continent (and insisting that it means consistency)

>>55145616
But they were inconsistently representing the population of Innistrad before by not having an angel that looks like a black human, while having black humans exist. By having a minority of angels that are black, the ethnicities of Innistrad's angels are now more consistent with the ethnicities of Innistrad's humans, a consistency that was lacking before Goldnight Castigator's existence.

>>55145610
>>55145630
look ,I can't argue against both of you if neither of you understand what I'm saying and occupy different sides of the barricades.

>>55145656
Because either one means you're wrong, idiot. There's a dozen possible explanations for why there might be a black angel, but all you have to support your idea is that you think a black angel breaks some sort of unspoken rule

>>55145656
By 'look after,' you mean protect, yes? That's what people usually mean by 'look after.' And I don't think anyone would ever disagree with that.

If not, what other mysterious definition of 'look after' are you using?

>>55145438
It wasen't then. Now it is. It's not undercover to anyone, stop preteding is not an agenda. Now every non-white character will be treated like a "box to be ticked". Just because of SJWs agenda, you doomed everything not pristine white into oblivion by politicizing everything. You ruined the fun for everyone involved. Just reap what you sowed.

>>55143141
>Cathedral ships
Another fucking thing straight out of Praedia

>story
>in magic

I came here to laugh at you all.
Now I can close the thread (and keep laughing).

>>55145703
>their looks are designed after white causasian females
troubles understanding text?

>>55145701
My position:
Wizards decide that angels on the Innistrad's continent look like white females (first visit of Innistrad establishes it). I want that upon revisiting the plane, they would keep consistent with it. But they don't. They give us a black angel. Why? Because "muh diversity". They also give us much more black people (but not asian for some reason) out of nowhere. If you say that they represent the native population you fail at realising the blacks also magically appeared from nowhere. As such my conclusion is that blacks migrated in (or were inserted without thinking about it, because Innistrad is TOO SMALL TO SUPPOT DIFFERENT RACES TO EXIST).

>>55145785
Innistrad had blacks and asians on it the first time we saw it. Whats the issue with seeing more of them on cards?

>>55145785
A) you're assuming Wizards decided anything that clear-cut. Angels were only,major in the third set anywa, and there still weren't a ton to establish a sufficient sample

B) there's a gap of time between the two Innistrad blocks where monsters were getting driven back. The thought that trade, and by extension immigration , would have increased during this time is very reasonable, as is the possibilitt that not!Africa is closer to not!Europe than not!Asia

The only problem here is if you look at the cards we get as a 100% accurate population sample of the plane

>>55145438

I have no real idea about how the fought process goes that way.

Do you just love the stuff you had as a kid, and can't reconcile that with you getting old and reactionary?

Eh, I've just accepted that WotC is making stuff for a large chunk of people, and isn't particular slaved to their past choices.

And damnit, anything that makes the SoM red mana using brown-skinned ladies is totally worth it.

>>55145785
Please cite your source that angels are only meant to look like white human women.
Please cite your source that angels are only meant to look like human women from a specific region of Innistrad rather than human women from the entirety of the plane.
Please cite your source that non-whites are not native to the specific region of Innistrad that angels (supposedly) represent.

If the appearance of angels is meant to represent the appearances of Innistrad's humans, then the appearance of Innistrad's angels is more consistent with the appearance of Innistrad's humans after the inclusion of Goldnight Castigator, due to the fact that they now represent additional ethnicities. As I am unable to find any source saying that black people are not native to the region of Innistrad that the story focuses on, or any source saying that angels only represent that region and not any other region of the plane, or any source saying that angels are only meant to look like white human women, I can only come to the conclusion that the aesthetic consistency of angels in relation to the definition of their appearance has improved after Goldnight Castigator's inclusion.

>>55145854
as non natives. That means they migrated. What's wrong? Oh nothing if you are okay with wizards making bullshit decisions in order to pander to minorities.

>>55145857
my point is that the only native population is whites. if we conclude that angles represent the native populations, then we should only have white angels. If we presume that angels are unrelated to the native population, then we should have a consistent design that is a white female looking angels.

>>55145900
you still don'r get what I'm arguing about, do you. I claim that wizards decided that angels on Innistrad (this Innistrads' continent?) will look like all the angels on other planes - as white winged females. And then ditched this in favor of diversity. That's the reason. Muh diversity.

>>55145906

... Maybe Angels emigrated as well.

We also don't know how new angels are made/fixed, and to assume that they use some measure of "native" in something more then you having been born where you live seems silly.

>>55145906
Or, it's the native populatioms of the plane as a whole, and is proximity based, so you get the occasional Black angel

You're making a lot of assumptions about how angels work in order to insist that something that happened couldn't ever happen.

>>55145900
i'm not claiming that angels represent the people of the continent
I'm not claiming that angels erepresent the native population only
that's the other anon that claims that, argue with him.

>>55145965
>>55145968
angels don't migrate. They're magical beings born from mana and bound by the planes leylines. I see no reason a single/few angles could traverse oceans just to be elsewhere.

>>55145940
>Muh diversity.
As a bystander to this conversation, my question for you is how do you possibly muster the will to give a fuck, because I personally can't.

>>55145906
Let's be frank here.

You are passionate about the fact that a fictional character that is an angel in a children's card game is not white. You are passionate enough that you have spent one and a half hours of your free time (see >>55144375) trying to explain why the existence of non-white angels in this setting is a bad thing.

Why is that? Why do you care to this degree about an angel in a fictional setting being an ethnicity other than white?

>>55145968
>You're making a lot of assumptions about how angels work in order to insist that something that happened couldn't ever happen
On the contrary. I make very litlle assumptions. In fact, the only assumption I make is that they should be consistent within plane/region. If they showed that angels were white females in Innistrad 1.0, I want them to be white females in Innistrad 2.0 as well, or provide a logical reason if that's not the case.

>>55145983
Then you are acknowledge that the aesthetic consistency of angels has increased, thanks to the existence of a black angel.

>>55145989
>>55146000
Some people are pushing diversity.
I'm seeing how it ruins things from my hobbies to geopolitical wellbeings of entire continents
So I'm pushing against the pushing ofdiversity.

>>55146021
the consistency increased if we assume angels represent all the people of the continent at given time. That is a baseless assumptions, and I don't make baseless assumptions. See :>>55146006
>On the contrary. I make very litlle assumptions. In fact, the only assumption I make is that they should be consistent within plane/region. If they showed that angels were white females in Innistrad 1.0, I want them to be white females in Innistrad 2.0 as well, or provide a logical reason if that's not the case.

>>55146000
>Why do you care to this degree about an angel in a fictional setting being an ethnicity other than white?

I mean, you can call him a racist anon. /pol/ isn't going to come out of nowhere and call you an Es Jay Dubbayu for calling it like it obviously is.

>>55146006
The appearance of Innistrad's angels was inconsistent with the appearance of Innistrad's humans. This consistency was improved by the inclusion of Goldnight Castigator, as there is no lore-based reason for angels to not be black. There was no logical reason for none of the angels in Innistrad's first block to be black and there were no logical reasons for there to be no black angels in the second block, so a black angel was created in order to make the appearance of angels more consistent.

>>55146029
I don't really see how "skin tones among characters used to not vary as much but now they do" is a big enough change to ruin much of anything, but you do you I guess. I just wish there were more things for us to talk about.

>>55146084

Case in point, Visions has African looking angels in an African setting.

>>55146087
I could have a conversation about that, but let's keep this for another time. Frankly, my hands are busy arguing about whether a black angel was justified or not.

>>55146084
You are making baseless assumptions, anon. Have we not agreed it's a bad thing?

Innistrad 1.0: angels - white females
Innistrad 2.0: angels - white females + black female
that's inconsistent. Do we have a reason/explanation forthis inconsistency? No. That means it's illogical.

>>55146029
So angels being any ethnicity other than white is bad because it is pushing diversity.

>>55146029
I hope in each set from now on, we get a random black person regardless of the logical consistency or reasoning. Even in places that it makes there for absolutely no sense for there to be black people.

Entirely because I legitimately do not care, and I hope that this pushes people like you who clearly do care to stupid degrees out of the hobby.

>>55146161
no. However, changing an established design for it, is.
>>55146167
So we agree that your position don't make sense lore-wise. Well, something is better than nothing.

>>55146146
It has been established and agreed in this conversation that angels, outside of a few exceptions, share the appearance of the inhabitants of the plane that they exist on.

Innistrad 1.0: Humans are of multiple ethnicities, angels are only white. This is inconsistent.
Innistrad 2.0: Humans are of multiple ethnicities, angels of multiple ethnicities. This is consistent.

Was there a reason for there to not be a black angel in the first block, even though humans were of multiple ethnicities? No. That means it's illogical. That was corrected.

>>55146146
Cards do not cover literally every permutation of thing to exist in the setting. It's like saying because there are no albino people in Innistrad's cards albino's don't exist on Innistrad, and any card featuring an albino is inconsistent with the lore.

Hell, by this logic, introducing new characters in a second set is inconsistent, because we never saw them in the first set.

>>55146216
The established design of angels is as winged, divine versions of female inhabitants of their plane.

Goldnight Castigator does not diverge from this.

>>55146218
you are again making assumptions, anon.

Also, that's not how consistency works. We can search for consistency only within the same plane, comparing the current and previous itterations of the same setting. Because different planes may have different rules.

>>55146247
albinism is mutation
race is thousands years of genetic isolation.

Which is problematic, cuz the continent we visited is too small to support the existence oif saveral native races.

>>55146293
>albinism is mutation
>race is thousands years of genetic isolation.

Weird how that has nothing to do with what I just said. Looks like someone's finally running out of steam.

>>55146291
Amonkhet had males. Visions had black angels, thus your assumption is incorrect.

>>55146315
>Weird how that has nothing to do with what I just said
how does this has nothing to do with what you said? Read your own posts moron. Albinism can happen, a race suddenly appear cant.

>>55144445
>could have had a hot female admiral
>instead we get this

>>55145585
Why are you assuming that seeing more black people on cards (assuming thats true) means something had to happen to the plane as opposed to, you know, just seeing more black people on cards.

Also why do you assume Innistrad somehow got more black people just becasue you saw more black people.

Or that we have any sort of demographics on Innistrad's racial populations.

And jesus fucking christ what am I doing here.

>>55146364
because that's not how races work. innistrads continent is too small to support several races coesxisting naturally. They can't simply appear without a reason. Migration, planeswalkers perhaps. But not naturally.
>Also why do you assume Innistrad somehow got more black people just becasue you saw more black people.
because 1.0 had just a few. Meaning - non native race, as there can't be two native races.

>>55145906
How do you know that the non whites were migrants?

>>55146344
Hey everyone, look! A retard who is desperately trying to deflect but is bad at it! Your statement isn't an argument, because there is nothing in there that disproves what I just said.

Yes, Albinism is a mutation. And yes, race is a thousand years of genetic isolation.

How does this disprove that the reason why there can be black angels on the setting that did not appear in the first set is because we did not see any? Hell, it's not even that good of an argument. Here, look, I'll give a better argument against it for you.

"By that logic, they could put in pink unicorns and it would be "consistent" because they didn't appear in the first set."

Bam! Wasn't hard, was it? But you don't think before you post. You just look at something, pounce on it, and whine until you reach what you hope is an approximation of right. I gave you a freebie, and you went with something that in no way disproved my argument.

You ain't clever, kid.

>>55146052
Can we please not take the polfags bait and get back on topic of discussing Ixalan lore?

All I'm saying, if you decide that angels on this plane/continent looks as "XXX", then you need to be consistent with it, or provide a logical reason if that's not the case.

because otherwise, it's illogical, messes with the lore, and let's be honest, is nothing more than propaganda for pandering to the minorities.

>>55146459
I said it too many times already. Innistrad's continent we visited is too small to support 2 or more native races.

>>55144556
>And just for some chronological stuff, the Legion of Dusk only started arriving maybe two years ago, like fairly recently. And the Sun Empire is strong enough that they can fight them off fairly easily.

Wow, way to make the villains sound threatening, WotC.

>>55146460
how do you explain there being black angels then without using baseless speculations? remember the Hydra. That's your pink unicorn in reality. A lot of people were pissed because it doesn't match the lore, was off-place and made little sense.

>>55146525
There are no villains per se, its a 4 way war kinda like Khans of tarkir

>>55146323
>>55146293
In which case, let's target another inconsistency within Innistrad's angels that we can observe.

Within the Innistrad block, before the corruption of angels that occurred in Shadows over Innistrad, Voice of the Provinces is the only angel with black wings. There is no logical explanation for this inconsistency.

As this is an issue of consistency first and foremost, will you not argue that Voice of the Provinces is as much of an issue as Goldnight Castigator, being an uncorrupted angel of Innistrad with black wings and being inconsistent with the appearance of all other angels of Innistrad? Why are you not discussing this just as vehemently, as your main reason for disliking Goldnight Castigator is its lack of consistency?

>interesting thread is ruined by racist morons repeating the same boring stuff they always talk about
yep sounds about right

>>55146460
>we never saw them in the first place
but we saw their equivalent that was consistent with other sets. White female angels. This set the standart for what to expact when we revisit the plane.

In order for there to be an inconsistency in the form of a black angle, a reason should have been told, but it wasn't, meaning there was none and it was ionly "muh diversity" doing it's magic again.

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>>55146526
>Write a post about how you are an idiot who misses the point of posts to fixate on one tiny detail of it that doesn't disprove the post as a whole
>Even beat my own argument for you
>You are actually so dumb that you are still arguing against the argument I beat for you
>By fixating on one tiny detail of it that doesn't even disprove the post as a whole
Did they have to invent a shorter bus for you?

>>55146555
>>55146591
wing color is not race. Could easily by influenced by mana/madness/?genetics?
And again, it's only inconsistent with other angels, but consistent with Innistrad's angels as a whole. As you say yourself, it got represented. It was part of the established designs for Innistrad's angels you dumb fucks.

>>55146581
what?

>>55146293
>you are again making assumptions, anon.

Which is assumptions is he making?

>Also, that's not how consistency works.

It's exactly how consistency works. In fact, it's how you yourself modeled consistency earlier, except you twisted the facts to suit your agenda.

>We can search for consistency only within the same plane, comparing the current and previous itterations of the same setting

That's exactly what that anon did.

In the first Innistrad block, there were white humans and black humans, but only white angels. In the second block, there were white humans and black humans, and white angels and black angels. This is consistent, as in both cases, the angels share the appearance of humans on the plane. The fact that we didn't see any black angels in the first block doesn't mean inconsistency, it means he didn't see any black angels in the first block. Nothing more.

Look, can you just admit that seeing black people rustles your jimmies and any quantity of blacks will annoy you? At this point I'd almost respect you more if you just admitted to it rather than trying to rationalize your stupidity and frame it as a storytelling complaint.

You foggots could bitch about anything

>>55146630
>wing color is not race. Could easily by influenced by mana/madness/?genetics?

How is it that Wing Color can be influenced by all those things, but skin color can't?

>>55146640
This is what happens when we let /pol/tards and /v/ermin infest our board.

>>55146635
>It's exactly how consistency works. In fact, it's how you yourself modeled consistency earlier, except you twisted the facts to suit your agenda.
Innistrad 1.0: we have angels that look like A, B, C.
Innistrad 2.0 We have angels that look like A, B, C, X.
consistency can be horizontal (among Inn 1.0 designs) and vertical (among 1.0 and 2.0 designs). Designs of 1.0 sets a standart, and if 2.0 follows that standart, it's consistent, if don't - it's inconsistent. This is the kind of consistency I'm talking about, had they shown black angels in Innistrad 1.0, I wouldn't be arguing about it now.

>Which is assumptions is he making?
that angels represent the population (not native, but current)

>>55146647
I assume your knowledge on basic biology isn't much to look at.

>>55146630
There is nothing to indicate that Voice of the Provinces uses different mana from other planes, nor is there anything to indicate that using different mana could also impact the skin color of Goldnight Castigator.
There is nothing to indicate that Voice of Provinces is infected with madness and if it was, this could easily be used for an explanation for why discoloration is also present in Goldnight Castigator.
Genetics do not exist within angels, as they are not technically biological beings, they are constructed from mana.

If you have no issue with inconsistent coloration in the form of black wings, you should have problem with inconsistent coloration in the form of black skin. Black wings are as much a part of the established design of Innistrad's angels as black skin was.

Voice of the Provinces is evidence that there are anomalies of coloration within the angels of Innistrad. There are outliers and anomalies in the form of black-winged angels and also dark-skinned angels. If you are willing to accept the inconsistency of Voice of the Provinces's appearance, you should also accept the lack of inconsistency in Goldnight Castigator's appearance, as you clearly accept that inconsistency occurs with Innistrad's angels.

Why are we assuming that angels must follow human population genetics? If they printed a new angel card with pink eyes or an angel with pointy ears or an angel with 6 fingers per hand (I don't know whether these haven't been done but it's not important) I'm assuming nobody but a total Chrischan-tier autistic would care. So why can't there be angel with black skin that are less common than the """normal""" white angels that we're used to?

>>55146738
Your biology knowledge is truly pitiable, friendo. We saw a black winged angel in Innistrad 1.0, that means they exist here. It's just a color of feathers, many many things can differentiate them. The race, however, is a whole new thing that can't happen overnight. We didn't see any black angels in INN 1.0, that make me assume that there weren't (at least as we know it).

>>55146731
>Innistrad 1.0: we have angels that look like A, B, C.
>Innistrad 2.0 We have angels that look like A, B, C, X.

No, in Innistrad 1.0 we have angels that look like A - humans on the plane.

In Innistrad 2.0, we also have angels that look like A - humans on the plane.

Black people are present in both sets and are a minority in both humans and angels in SOI. Angels are consistently portrayed as looking like the humans that live on Innistrad. Not seeing black angels in Innistrad Vanilla is not inconsistency. Shit, do know how much stuff was in Dominaria that we never saw in the first few sets?

>>55146775
I'm not assuming any of those things. I'm just asking for CONSISTENCY. Because:
if you decide that angels on this plane/continent looks as "XXX", then you need to be consistent with it, or provide a logical reason if that's not the case.

>>55146784
Aren't angels created beings? Why would they follow the rules of human biology?

>>55144629
Just pull the stick out your ass man. We've known some dinosaurs have had feathers since the late 90's but almost no one depicts any of them with feathers. It is refreshing to see dinosaurs with cool feathers and amazing colors instead of the same old grey/green/beige scaly dino's. Also this is a mystical plane of existence invented by people who work at wizards. If they wanted they could make a plane based on oldwest have guns that shoot lightning because fuck it. It is fiction.

>>55146775
Because these people are fixated on battling diversity wherever they find it, to the point where they are against a group of entities that are entirely Caucasian for no logical reason incorporating a Negroid entity entirely due to the issue of 'inconsistency,' even when other examples of inconsistency within the entities exist.

Make of that what you will. Two and a half hours of vehemently disagreeing with the existence of a single black character in the midst of a collection of white characters that are white for no logical reason, with their only argument being one of consistency.

>>55146820
But we didn't get a huge sample size. Maybe there are just black angels but they are less common and maybe even do different jobs.

>>55146791
>No
you are a moron.
You are making assumptions. We know of a fact that every depicted angel shared the traits of being a white female - those traits (being female and white) set a standart and so upon return angels should follow those guidelines or a reason should be given if that's not the case.

Sonic's arms are NOT BLUE!

>>55146784
Angels are not biological. Why are you talking about the setting of MtG when you clearly do not know about it?

Angels do not have genetics. They do not have biology. They are made of magic. Biology does not factor into what they look like. So, please use an explanation actually relevant to MtG to explain why an angel of Innistrad is able to have black wings (without Emrakul-based corruption) while also being unable to have black skin.

>>55146822
for same reasons of why is there are different races among them.

>>55146848
wedon't need a huge sampling size. it was enough to set a standard. a rather homologous standard. And so it should have been followed.

>>55146820
You have consistency.

Look, the real reason why no black angels appeared in the original Innistrad block was that the creators didn't think about it. They didn't design their angels white, they designed them as looking human, and the defaulted to white because, surprise surprise, WotC is an American company where most of the population, media, and people working in WotC itself are white.

Angels look like humans with wings in both Innistrad and Shadows. We see black angels in Shadows because the creators thought about it. White people and black people are the same fucking species, it is not inconsistent if there are black angels you haven't seen before running (or flapping, I guess) around. It WOULD be inconsistent if suddenly all the angels were black, or all the angels had fiery eyes all over their bodies, or suddenly had tails.

>>55146840
You are so stupid you don't even grasp what's the discussion about. We knew smaller theropods that are birds predecessors evolved feathers and then evolved into birs. No one is arguing against that. The discussion is whether feathers were among other subcategories of dinosaurs.

>>55146856
You're the moron if you think the sample size of angels we got in the first Innistrad set is even remotely large enough to make an assumption like "all angels are white."

Faced with new evidence, it is far more logical to assume that we didn't see any before, rather than that they couldn't exist.

Don't try to use the scientific method if you have no clue how to do science.

>>55146820
If you decide that angels on this plane/continent have white feathers, then you need to be consistent with it, or provide a logical reason if one of them has black feathers instead.

So what's the reason for Voice of the Provinces having black feathers, a reason that can't be used to explain why Goldnight Castigator has black skin? And no, biology doesn't count because the angels of Innistrad aren't biological entities.

>>55146856
We didn't see any Fish in the original Innistrad block. We did see some in the second.

Which is more reasonable?

A) Fish existed, but we didn't see any
B) Fish didn't exist, and their existence is a retcon

>>55146932

... I'm not even convinced there's a meaningful difference between the two, other than people use skin color to determine ethnicity more than hair/feather color.

>>55146893
>>55146932
>for same reasons of why is there are different races among them.
They may not be biological, but changing feather colors is still incomparable to changing races and that shows how little you grasp on the subject.
Feathers were part of the standart that first INNistrad set, for fucks sake.

>>55146929
Faced with new evidence, it is far more logical to assume that we didn't see any before, rather than that they couldn't exist.
No, faced with evidence it's far more logical to assume that there weren't black angels before and they decided to put one in because "muh diversity".

>>55146898
>wedon't need a huge sampling size

Kinda do.

There are thousands of angels on Innistrad, and from what we know they look like the humans that inhabit the plane. We only see, what, twenty, in Old Innistrad?

With such a tiny sample size, and the knowledge that there are black people among the humans their appearance reflects, it is actually LESS logical to assume they're all white than to assume there should be other ethnic appearances among them.

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>>55146975
>biologically illiterate

>>55146986
>changing feather colors is still incomparable to changing races and that shows how little you grasp on the subject

You're a biological expert on angels now? You can say with scientific certainty that skin color is what determines race for angels while feather color is superfluous, and not the other way around?

>>55146986
>No, faced with evidence it's far more logical to assume that there weren't black angels before and they decided to put one in because "muh diversity"

Meta-wise, yes, that's why they put one in there. Lore-wise (which is what you've been complaining about), no. It is far more logical to assume an earlier sample was to small, rather than something sprung up out of nowhere

>>55146986
see
>>55146901

Yes, we SEE black angels now because muh diversity.

However, it is not inconsistent for black angels to exist, as angels in Innistrad look like its humans, and there are black humans on Innistrad.

Stop whining about blacks existing. That really is all you're doing here.

>>55147011
>we need thousands of cards for every angel on innistrad to know what is what
literally retarded
>>55147018
>biologically illiterate
>>55146972
you're grasping on straws. the main difference was that we SAW angels in INN 1.0 and they set a standart, and INN 2.0 violated that standard.

>>55147012
Alright. Post the X-Rays of Angel skulls then to prove skin color = race for them

>>55137753
Well of course. Magic hasn't had a good new setting or a passable piece of lore for more than a decade at this point. No, Khans wasn't good.

Guys, just let it die. Let him think he won. This guy's crazy...

Polite sage.

>>55147043
See >>55147018


Explain how you know what the biology of a fictional creature is

>>55146986
>but changing feather colors is still incomparable to changing races

1. Why?

2. Nothing was changed. Innistrad's angels weren't changed, no white angels got morphed into black angels. WotC decided to just show how the angels of Innistrad reflected the humans of Innistrad this time around.

>>55147043
you're grasping on straws. the main difference was that we SAW animals in INN 1.0 and they set a standart, and INN 2.0 fish violated that standard.

>>55146986
And skin was a part of the 'standart' that first 'INNistrad' set, for 'fucks' sake. All angels of Innistrad have feathers and skin and facial features. Then you've got an angel that has black feathers and then you've got an angel that has black skin and black facial features.

Wing color is just an aesthetic for angels. Ethnicity is just an aesthetic for angels. They're both equally meaningless when it comes to the angel. Ethnicity doesn't matter a massive amount more when it comes to angels than wing color does. Voice of the Provinces's wing color is meaningless. The ethnicity of Goldnight Castigator is meaningless.

Let's face the truth here. You're arguing because you don't like the inclusion of a single black angel in a group of over thirty white angels. You see literally one drop of perceived impurity in a children's card game as an 'invasion,' as 'forced diversity,' as 'the SJWs taking over,' as something to take a stand against.

You need to face that you might be over-reacting.

>>55147043
>strawman

>ad hominem

>ignoring logic

Your asshurt at ebonies is fucking hilarious.

>>55147042
uggggh, that's what I'm talking about. In original Innistrad the design for angels was white females. In Inn 2.0 they deviated from it by introducing black angels. But they didn't give us a reason/explanation for this and THAT"S WHY IT'S BAD LORE-WISE.
>>55147063
>>55147077
>biologically illiterate
I know how race works. I know how genetics works. I can apply the knowlkedge even for "magical" creations because the end result (angel) complies to the biological standarts that of a human. You apparently don't.

>>55145438
Nigger, Jaime is a good character and America is an insufferable cunt that was first written as a villain red herring.

It's not always about your skin color, sometimes horrid characters are just horrid characters.

>>55147108
>I can apply the knowlkedge even for "magical" creations because the end result (angel) complies to the biological standarts that of a human.

Unless it doesn't. So prove that it does

>>55147108
The majority of angels in original Innistrad were white women with white wings. Then they had an outlier in the form of a white woman with black wings. But they didn't give us a reason/explanation for this and THAT'S WHY IT'S BAD LORE-WISE.

Race does not matter for angels. They are not biological beings. It's surface modifications, it's aesthetic inconsistency of the same level.

>>55147096
>not seing fish means there's no fish in Innistrad
>seing angels all white means there's also black angels
wut?
>>55147098
>ethinicity is aesthetical
>biologically illiterate

>>55147121
>hurr durr angels reflect the biological attributes of locals
>hurr durr prove that basic biological knowledge and concepts don't apply to angels
literally retarded

>>55147043
>we need thousands of cards for every angel on innistrad to know what is what

Yeah, no strawmen, please. That's not what was said.

We don't need thousands of angels. But twenty angels cannot tell us with absolute certainty, or even any certainty at all, that other angels can't look like different ethnicities. Especially when you take into account the meta aspect, that in reality they're only portrayed as all white the first time round because most artists for an American product default to white.

If someone says "are there black angels", and you have the evidence the first set supplies, the actual reasonable response is "I don't know." Because you DON'T know, because you've only seen twenty or so angels out of several thousand, and you know there are black people in the setting.

And hey, now you do now.

>>55147108
>>55147159
As biological knowledge applies to magical beings, please explain entirely in biological, non-magical terminology how angels are able to achieve flight.

Go.

>>55147153
>biologically illiterate
jeez, people, even 6th graders know more than you.
>>55147164
we had a decent ammount of angels to support my claim and establish a standartd design of Innistrad's angel;s as white females (no exceptions). Now they made an exception. No explanation was given.

We don't know that the wings are merely differently-colored. They may be wings corresponding to a completely different species of bird, I'm which case the biggest """biological"""" difference would be between the white-wing angels and the brown-wing angel rather than the white angels and the black angel.

>>55147190
Please supply evidence that the ethnicity of an angel, a being that is entirely magical and not biological, is anything other than superfluous.

>>55147186
>what are wings
given how angels are also magical, leylines/just plain magic

>>55147190

Less than 30 is not a good sample size, even if you assume you got a random representative sample.

You can't expect to find thing that are 1 in 40 for example.

>>55147108
>In original Innistrad the design for angels was white females.

No, the design was female humans with wings. They defaulted to white at the time because basically the entire staff and audience and country of origin for the company was white.

>In Inn 2.0 they deviated from it by introducing black angels.

They didn't deviate from shit, they just showed black angels too.

>But they didn't give us a reason/explanation

THEY DON'T FUCKING NEED ONE. We see twenty-ish angels in original Innistrad. We know there are black people on the plane. Angels look like humans, black people are humans. There is no reason, no reason at all, why we simply could not have seen any black angels as cards in the last set. THERE IS LITERALLY NO REASON FOR A LORE EXPLANATION. Only in your addled mind does something like this need to be explained.

>>55147190
>jeez, people, even 6th graders know more than you.
Nigger I have a master's degree in genetics and even I know better than to apply popgen concepts to metaphysical beings.

We get it, you took Bio 101. I'm glad you're interested in the most patrician science but lording your surface-level understanding over random internet nerds is incredibly bad form.

>>55147159
>not seing black angels means there's no black angels in Innistrad
>seing animals all mammals/reptiles means there's also fish
wut?

>>55147186
>hurr durr angels reflect the biological attributes of locals
>hurr durr prove that basic biological knowledge and concepts don't apply to angels

gets angry at me for pointing out that magical beings based on biological beings has btraits attributed to biological beings. Explain why tyey bleed then, smartass, only in magical terms.

>>55147231
>No, the design was female humans with wings
No, the design was WHITE females with wings. The rest of your position is negated by this collosal flaw in your observation

>>55147209
Yes, and wings are finely tuned machines that require the rest of the body to work around them.

Now please explain how the wings of an angel are able to work in conjunction with a human body and how the angels as depicted in the images are able to achieve flight, when their bodies are far from optimal for even gliding.

And if your answer is 'magic,' my answer is that Goldnight Castigator is black because 'magic.'

>>55140925
>>55140860
that sounds too cool and up my alley to be in a modern mtg set

>>55147256
>still assuming skin tone is relevant to magical creatures

>>55147190
>we had a decent ammount of angels to support my claim

No we didn't. Not the "no exceptions" claim, anyway.

If there was a card with flavour text stating "No niggers can have wings in muh Innistrad - Avacyn" then the no exceptions thing would hold water. But as things are, we only have a sample size sufficient to determine that angels look like winged humans.

>>55147236
yeah right. So what it makes you then, a troll?

>>55147259
again making shitty assumptions. So now angels are able to shift their race, eh? Retard.

>>55144729
T.rex feathers were roughly the size of our body hair in context. They wouldn't look like chicken, they'd look like lizards with little quills.

>>55147256

Please address this point. If you're going to pretend to be interested in biology it should be a valid critique of your position.
>>55147192

>>55147283
>still assuming skin tone is relevant to magical creatures
magical creatures that are based on biological creatures and functions just as so. So yes.

>>55147305
As I already said, I'm not making any shitty assumptions in this argument. You want to speculate that feathers are something more than just differently colored, by my guest.

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>>55147297
>again making shitty assumptions. So now angels are able to shift their race, eh? Retard.

Nobody said that, and there were no assumptions in that post.

How are you this retarded?

This child is literally furious that a company dared defile a group of over thirty white characters with a single black character.

He sees this as an assault against his race.
He sees this as a conspiracy to water down society.
He sees this as the slow but certain genocide of Caucasians everywhere.

Feel pity for the /pol/ack.

>>55147334
>Nobody said that, and there were no assumptions in that post.
>angels can be black because "magic"
implying by magic there can noew appear black angels

>How are you this retarded?
you are, not me

>>55145032
At this point I expect arthurian, russian or ancient chinese sets to be 50% black. American media producers are really vindicated that those racist poles managed to make The Witcher 3 100% white.

>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE THERE'S A BLACK ANGEL IN MY CARD GAME
>FUCKING NIGGERS FUCKING DIVERSITY
>THIS IS AN ATTACK AGAINST THE WHITE PEOPLE
>ANGELS ARE UNIVERSALLY FUCKING WHITE HOW DARE THEY MAKE A BLACK ANGEL
>FUCKING DEFILING MY HOBBIES FUCKING NIGGERS INVADING MY CARD GAME
>FORGET THAT I DIDN'T KNOW HALF THE SHIT I WAS TALKING ABOUT UNTIL THE PEOPLE I WAS ARGUING WITH INFORMED ME OF IT THIS IS A FUCKING TRANSGRESSION
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>55138773
I cant imagine were they went and ask this kind of stuff?

>>55136959
Anyone else get the impression Kiora might be making a return visit?

I mean, she is the colours of the Merfolk in this set.

>>55147256
Sorry, but considering that we know black humans exist on Innistrad, previous angels being shown as white is not enough to preclude black angels from possibility. Especially not with such a minuscule sample size.

This is especially true now that black angels have shown up. The explanation is that you didn't see them before, in Innistrad Vanilla. That's a completely logical explanation considering how few angels you saw.

Any arguing with this would be pointless.

>>55147328
>You want to speculate that feathers are something more than just differently colored, by my guest.
Ok, well I'm no ornithologist but the Voice of Provinces clearly has a different wing shape than he others. Her wings have a smaller wingspan and the feathers are stubbier. Pretty clearly a different species of bird.

>>55147364
Imagine if we make a return to Lorvyn and now there're non-planeswalker humans in it. that's my problem

>>55147350

.... The game literally has magic.

... And nobodies besides you has implied that Angels can shift form.

... It's not a power of Angels in M:tG

>>55147350
>implying by magic there can noew appear black angels

Once again, it seems you are too stupid to understand his point. The point wasn't that black angels suddenly just appeared by magic, the point was that angels are magical and their ethnicity, physiology, and biology has no basis in reality.

Different types of wings are just as much of a variance as different skin colors. If you're going to explain away the wings with magic, anything else can be explained away with magic.

>>55147385
Shouldn't you be posting on /pol/ about how the average black man's IQ is 20 lower than the average white man's IQ and how dare that fucking nigger deny your application for a job at the local Walmart?

>>55147403
>the point was that angels are magical and their ethnicity, physiology, and biology has no basis in reality.
So why then, THERE IS A BLACK ANGEL NOW?

>>55147418
Because not all of the angels were depicted in the original Innistrad block.

Or did you think that only 16 angels existed on Innistrad?

>>55147408
>trying to derail the topic

>>55147418
She was probably always there but didn't appear in cards. It's not like in the new set all angels were black. Then you would have a point. Rather, black angels appear to be rare, which is why one wasn't seen the first time around, because the samoel size was too small.

>>55147418
Because she was standing behind a doorway and you didn't see her

>>55147385
No, that's a completely different example.

Humans don't exist on Lorwyn. Angels do exist on Innistrad.

Black angels appearing in Innistrad is more like a tribe of elves we haven't seen yet showing up on Lorwyn. They're still elves, they just look a little different - it can be assumed they were always around, because we already knew there are tons of elves on Lorwyn and they can't all look exactly the same.

You wouldn't whine about the elves, don't whine about this.

>>55147440
No, you don't get me. IF "angels are magical and their ethnicity, physiology, and biology has no basis in reality.", then why there ARE black angels? In general.

>>55147449
No, I'm just pointing out that you're just against this because you see anything not Caucasian as corrupting and evil.

>>55147459
No, that's a completely comparable example. You tried it with fishes and feathers, but when I start asking similar things, it's "already different"...

>>55147463
Because Innistrad's angels look like divine and winged female versions of Innistrad's human inhabitants, some of which are black.

>>55147418
see
>>55147375

You didn't see them before (not a surprise, considering they're usually flying against the night sky). They were there, but you didn't see those specific angels depicted in cards. Perfectly reasonable, you only saw around twenty angels, after all.

If you went into a city, and met twenty white people, would you consider reality to have broken if the next person you met as black?

>>55147471
I'm seing going against the lore for the sake of pandering as corrupting and evil

>>55147459
He would whine about the elves if they were black.

>>55147496
>>55147502
No, I'm asking why does a non-biological being reflect biological traits.

>>55147517
the whole /TG/ was mad.

Autosage, you guys can stop responding to the guy that uses hatred of diversity as a shield for his xenophobia.

>>55146555
>>55146738
Voice of the Provinces is the last remaining angel of the WB flight.

>>55147486
And you conveniently ignored the fact that the wings aren't just a different color, but completely different in morphology.

>>55147537
Because angels look like divine, winged versions of humans and it's hard to look like a divine, winged version of human if you don't possess the physical traits of a human?

>>55147544
Cite source.

>>55147545
And you have completely ignored that there weren't any black angles in Innistrad until they decided to pander to minorities and include black angels in INN 2.0. Wing shapes arent propaganda, they may vary depending on artstyle/fl;avor/art directions, that's not an attribute that has anything to do with this discussion.

>>55147486
>No, that's a completely comparable example.

No it isn't.

>You tried it with fishes and feathers

I don't think I've made any of those posts, there are multiple people in here. However, there is a stark difference between something that was explicitly stated not to exist (humans on Innistrad) and something we pretty much assume to exist on any Earth-ish setting (fish, trees, black people, etc) appearing.

Humans explicitly do not exist on Lorwyn. We're told this straight up. We are not told, however, that black angels can't or don't exist on Innistrad. And we don't NEED to be warned of shit like this, because, like the fish example, black people are not some fantastical concept we need to be told about. We see the sea, we think fish. We see humanity, we think people of a fuckton of different colors.

>>55141912
Guilds are evil and must die or something.
I love the fact Bolas considers this important enough to help her out with...or the fact she left ravnica to destroy the ravnica guilds.

Oh I think I get it.

You're upset people did a thing you don't like because you don't like it. Its easily explicable in the fiction. You're upset about the change in the writing/writers as change at all. Probably the content too because you seem /pol/ also, but wew you got some hard autism.

I understand why you mad. Its absurd, but I understand. People can create whatever the fuck content they want for whatever reasons they find important. You don't like it. That's fine. I'm hopeful you stop playing mtg. Seems like it would be better for everyone involved.

>>55147582
hey, I'm not the one saying that fishes must be shown in order toi know that they exist on a plane.

>>55147537
>No, I'm asking why does a non-biological being reflect biological traits.

You may as well ask why they have two arms, then. Because angels in popular fiction look like humans with wings, and humans have two arms.

They reflect humanity because they are based on humanity.

>>55147581
No, we just didn't see any black angels. It wasn't stated anywhere that there weren't any black angels.

Please explain why assuming that there are black angels if there are black humans (with humans being the blueprint angelic forms are based off of) and angels is wrong. We're not told that black angels don't exist. There's nothing provided to indicate that they don't exist. We just aren't shown any in a limited sample size.

>>55147595
I'm upset about pandering and diversity propaganda ruining then thing I love. Itruined Europe, it ruined comics industry, it's ruining magic (the art direction has gone down since the art descriptions emphasise not the characteristic traits but sexuality/race).

>>55147639
Yeah. I understand. I don't care about your feelings, but I understand. I also get how its weird for everyone here trying to liberal-humanism rational you into not believing what you do. Seems frustrating for everyone.

>>55147627
Yes, they are based on humanity, and so I attribute the basic biological concepts to them as well, and as such different shapes/colors of feathers/wings aren't comparable to different races.

>>55147604
Nobody is saying that.

People are saying that demanding an explanation for why black people are visible is like demanding an explanation for why there are fish in the sea. You don't need to see the fish to assume there are fish there.

Ironically you are the only one saying "fishes must be shown in order toi know that they exist on a plane" because for just a moment it seemed to suit your argument.

>>55147364
>There are brown angels in Alara
>There are brown people in Bant.
>Nobody cares.
Why is it always blacks causing a ruckus?

>>55147639
>It ruined Europe
Oh wow, you're one of those.

Yeah, you're fucking thick.

>>55147661
>Yes, they are based on humanity, and so I attribute the basic biological concepts to them as well

Cool, so you agree that they can be black. Coolio, argument over folks, everybody go home.

>>55147662
you don't need to see fishto conclude that there's fish in the sea, but you do need to see a black angel to conclude that there are black angels when the only angels you have seen are white and follow a trend we have seen in other planes.

>>55147690
And we've seen a black angel, so we can conclude that black angels exist on Innistrad.

>>55147689
I agree they can be black. I don't agree youcan just put a black angel in a setting that has only white angels and call it logical. as I said before, if we assume that blacks are native to another continent, there may be black angels on that continent.

>>55147591
Bolas may want the Immortal Sun so that he'll have the immortalized army and immortal planeswalkers to do his shopping.
He himself is immortal, but post-mending, his agents are not.

>>55147705
they included one, yes, but it made no sense. That's my problem. It defied established lore without providing an excuse for it.

>>55147714
But you've already argued against assumptions and there's nothing to indicate that black people come from another continent, as the other continents are referred to as unexplored locations - something you would know, if you actually read MtG lore and weren't just ass-mad due to your one-drop politics.

Just deal with it and stop caring so much about racial representation in children's card games. You care about the topic more than most SJWs I've met.