What does /tg/ think about adventurer guilds like in animes?

>>55136159
Stupid. A level of social organization such that you can have a centralized adventuring guild where people put up missions and the guild helps manage things probably can support a real army to do that kind of shit instead. Unless it's some hyper-rich and low population area, where it's more economically viable to bring in outsiders (mercenaries) for everything, a la 13th century Italy, there's almost certainly a better method for dealing with local monster incursions.

>>55136159
they remind me too much of real life

>>55136159
While not suitable for every setting, I think they can be fun in some of the more whimsical, "kitchen-sink" style fantasy games.

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>>55136159
is Ozanari Dungeon the first anime/manga to feature an adventurers' guild?

>>55136204
hey
but not everyone is as powerful as adventurers
i see normal soldiers as level 2-3 at max.

>>55136204
what if adventurers are all super-powered psychos who won't work in a normal army corps?

I prefer an anonymous community concern board where they put up thing that they worry about.

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>>55136265

>>55136204
>hyper-rich and low population area
why does it have to be low population? Carthage used mercenaries as well.

>>55136159
Fuck adventurer guilds. They make no fucking sense in any fucking game.

>>55136204
>there's almost certainly a better method for dealing with local monster incursions.
I imagine minor monster problems dealt with by soldiers tends to lead to a few casualties even if they win while sending a group of experienced adventurers might lead to no casualties.

Similarly, if there's a monstrous dragon and you send an army at it, the army may win but you've lost dozens, if not hundreds of soldiers. Then you have daemonic royalty which you're not even sure if your army can beat even with cannons. Plus vampires and other such beings that can infiltrate your society that no small investigation team can handle.

So it might actually be best to send a group of highly skilled and powerful professionals to deal with it.

>>55136460
Why doesn't the army have "highly skilled and powerful professionals"? And why is a place capable of organizing adventurers of this level of power allowing other powerful people who have no alleigance to anyone or anything to roam around freely?

>>55136265
They're a staple of any Japanese made RPG games. virtual or pen and paper ones.

A trillion times better than running around the entire town looking for people with exclamation marks over their heads.

>>55136204
>Why didn't the nations of the Middle Earth develop nuclear weapons and blast Mordor into smithereens?
>Talk about a STUPID setting.

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>>55136590

>>55136204
I can see a situation where draconian restrictions on standing military force were enforced by some higher power. And the only way to have enough professionals to fight off stuff behind the walls, while avoiding getting your domain lightingbolted for excess military build up, after bi-yearly supervisor report - is outsourcing it to mercenaries affiliated with said higher power, or some other entity.

>>55136387
Adventurer guilds makes no sense as they are pictured by contemporary games and books. IIRC 'adventurer guild' was one of the terms for mercenary band.

>>55136159
In anime they seem to typically operate as a national level organization, which is dumb in most fantasy settings.

They should be run locally.

>>55136497
Because the army trains at the barracks while the adventurers train at the barracks then go get real combat experience against monsters. Soldiers are trained to fight in formations, relying on the rest of the soldiers to back them up, taking casualties often so not gaining much individual experience while adventurers gain more experience winning battles with no casualties and they have to contribute to every fight instead of just being lucky by not being the soldier on the front line who died at the start of the battle.

You can't send an army to get rid of a goblin infestation. The goblins will just leave and attack your farmers and traders on the other side of your city. Adventurers can actually get in and kill them all. You can't use your armies number to fight through a dungeon to get the 'mcguffin of save the world' inside because the corridors are too small so a pair of minotaur could rip apart a battalion of soldiers even as they try to flee but are blocked by their companions in the corridors.

The guild provides the benefit of sending adventurers onto tasks that they can handle so they can become a force to be reckoned with. Worth a few squads of soldiers each. So many adventurers develop a sense of loyalty bond to the guild that helped them get to where they were. There may be bad eggs but the good outweigh the bad, at least in a setting where getting enough to eat isn't a struggle.

The army can train professionals, of course. They're just not going to be dragon slayers of any sort. There's only so far you can go with practice, at least as far as leveling up is concerned.

>>55136833
Are you completely retarded? Literally NONE of that makes sens, unless you take your own impractical bag of assumptions and then run with it.

Are you saying an actual dedicated national (or whatever else your political unit is based around) can't send out small units? They can't figure out what their people can and can't take without losses? They can't get combat experience? That they ALWAYS deploy in hundreds or more?

I really, really hope you're trolling, because if your post was serious, the implications are horrifying.

>>55136159
I think they're dumb. I don't like what it implies about the setting.
>That your character isn't special, they're just over of many in their profession.
>The setting is fucked enough to have an effectively endless supply of dungeons and threats that require a constant stream of adventurers to deal with.

The second one is the big one for me. It doesn't make for coherent settings or anything more than the most light hearted games. There needs to be contact threats to civilization, like ancient liches and dragons and rampaging orcs to require an adventurers guild, but they need to be constantly defeated without major harm for the setting to keep ticking.

It's too Saturday morning cartoon for me.

>>55136159
the one I'm planning on is closer to a bounty board and post-apoc stopgap measure.

You have a request board for oddjobs because refugees keep pouring in and nobody knows who has what or is good at what task. The ruling body is too busy keeping the whole place from falling apart while still accepting refugees.

As for military and bounty boards, the government has some real legal trouble ordering troops to kill the monsters, since many of them are, well, technically still citizens.

>>55136977
it can be a post apocaliptic setting where evil is everywhere

>>55136833
>The guild provides the benefit of sending adventurers onto tasks that they can handle so they can become a force to be reckoned with. Worth a few squads of soldiers each.
D&D-think maximum

>>55136159
I think it's just a quick of the Japanese to have everything be catalogued and regulated by some kind of system because not having it that way means chaos, and chaos is bad.

I love em. They add a level of whimsy that I really like and make more sense to me than random tavern quest-givers.

>>55136159
Who is this semen demon?

>>55136159
They're fun, but rarely realistic. Usually if something is fun enough you can ignore the lack of realism, and in this case a proper GM should be able to do it with little trouble.

>>55136218
Why real life?

>>55137240
And yet most of the time, the good guys live in the least organized one where structure and bureaucracy only pops up when absolutely necessary, the system is cheated to keep things running, and the RULES AND ORDER hardliner is a minor recurring villain you can't beat by just stomping because they're not evil, just mega-rigid.

It's like the basic human desire for freedom is trying to worm its way out.

>>55136159
I like them. Armies and military are made and trained for attacking and defending against other civilizations. Adventurers are made to fight monsters and other singular creatures. Also adventurers tend to be rarer than army men. Anyone can be in the army but adventurers are always a cut above the normal army populace.

>>55136769
In what anime does this happen on a national level?

>>55136888
Yeah, I forgot that many JRPGs have the elite boss lieutenants and such, like Gwyn's 4 Knights. Plus Knightly Guilds and Orders of Paladins.

But the army is needed to defend the kingdom from other armies. So so many settings simply say "we've told the king but he hasn't sent any men" which generally happens when the country is threatened by armies/hoards of Lv1 enemies. Or "we need you to clear out those bandits, we can't spare enough men from town defense to do it safely". They can't send their best soldiers out to slay a dragon when a daemon baron could appear in the city at any time.

Adventurers are more flexible and are often readily available, you know, just like mercenaries. They can be used as need and the guild will send the right people for the job as adventures come in all stripes. Plus you don't have to pay as much money since it's a one off thing.

Adventurer's guilds are dumb, but the dumb comes from the "adventurer" part and not the "guild" part. If you're already suspending enough disbelief to allow murderhoboes to murder and hobo rather than be executed for taking the king's dire stag, you may as well have some sort of centralized register and booking agency.

>>55136888
>Combat experience
The average person still caps out even with experience. You've made the assumption that the average pissant is the same as an adventurer and that is simply not true. You can't train any soldier to be an adventurer. Only certain people are even capable of it.

>>55137414
What went wrong in your life that you need every single imaginary friend you've ever had to be an untouchable ubermensch?

>>55137450
It's not that it's simple adventurers (or people capable of being one) simply have a higher exp cap (if you will) then a the average person. Exceptional individuals aren't exceptional just because of their training. They're also born exceptional.

>>55137500
Not that guy, but I believe they can be raised to be exceptional. They just won't be a min-maxed efficient adventurer.

I think a lot of it is in the head as well. A recruit who is content with a meager existence that comes with a soldier's pay might never get to level 3, not because of death, just that they don't perform much better than the bare minimum that is required of them.

This is all fantasy land guessing, of course.

>>55137500
Like I said. What went so impossibly wrong in your life that you can't even stand a single one of your imaginary friends having earned their specialness rather than be born to it? Who are you so convinced took what was yours by birth that every game you play has to cater to the idea of a literal master race?

>>55136460
Plus, Dragons are a vengeful bunch. You don't want attempts at their lives coming back to where you live. So you send some outsider Murderhobos that nobody knows. They kill the dragon, great. Have some treasure lads, then fuck off.
The dragon kills them, oh well, get on the cloak and hit the taverns with that nice shadowy spot you can sit in and be all mysterious.

>>55137279
not even i know just found on my pics folder

>>55136497
>Why doesn't the army have "highly skilled and powerful professionals"?
Warfare and clearing out dungeons require different sets of skills. Standing Army is trained to fight other armies and opress and slaughter peasants. Not to Slay Dragons or unearth secret Cults.

well
in overlord the countries dont put heroes on their armies because if they do other countries will also
so a battle which 20% of the army dies then retreat or surrender will be a battle where everyone dies very quickly cause heroes are heroes

>>55137576
Why do you believe everyone is so equal that a soldier can become the equivalent of a high level mage just by 'working hard'?

>>55137712
Empirical evidence?

Why do you believe that a level 11 ~adventurer~ mage is more suited to become a level 11 fighter than a level 10 soldier is?

I think a lot of the people who shit on adventuring guilds forget that "Dungeon as a self replenishing ecosystem where monsters and what they produce is loot in and of itself" is a shit tone more common in Japanese media than Western Fantasy style "Dungeon as a one off space for specific purpose with little heed paid to how the ecosystem works and general acts as a singular threat".

Adventuer's help serve the interests of alchemists, wizards, industrialists, blacksmiths, etc who may need more specific resources from dangerous places that help them produce high quality goods which in turn increase the standard of living for everyone.

>>55137783
normal people are at max level 3 anon
you know that level 10 players are already legendary things right?

>>55137834
No, they're not. A lot of games are really schizophrenic about what levels mean.

>>55137801
>he doesn't know about Gygaxian naturalism
Dungeon ecologies have been around for very long and are not a Japanese idea

>>55137783
Who said I believed that? The fighter adventurer and mage adventurer are both exceptional in their respected crafts. Being exceptional in magic does not translate to being exceptional in fighting and vice versa.

But a normal soldier could only ever attain MAYBE a few levels in fighter. Normal peasants can't just pick up a sword one day and work hard to be a level 11 fighter. They just aren't capable of it. Equality like what you are describing doesn't exist in the game world or in real life.

>>55137865
assuming that they are ordinary people they REALLY shouldnt be level 10

>>55137871
>Gygaxian naturalism
It's not really something that carried over in the west and even then it doesn't mean what you think it means.

There's an ecology but not an ecosystem, like in Japanese media. Nor does it portray societies that are RELIANT on these ecosystems, unless you care to enlighten me.

Gygaxian naturalism usually extends to "the kobolds worship the dragon, the hobgoblins fight the kobolds, the lone displace beasts eats anything it can catch".

>>55137712
Interests and personal goals.
The same way a hippie won't be a workaholic or the same way a simple farmer wouldn't become a businessman.
People are born and raised completely different from each other and that is what makes them achieve different things. If you stimulate a little kid into being a scientists, he will be capable of growing up and becoming a distinguished scientists. If you stimulate that same kid to like being a farmer, he will choose to stay in the farm and take care of his cows.
The brain is trainable just like muscles are. The thing that differentiates a body builder from a skinny nerd is the same thing that differentiates a dumb farm hand from a NASA engineer.
There is no such thing as being special, instead it's normal people achieving special things.

>>55137877
>my-my-my special master race hero HAS to be better than anyone else automatically! just like mommy always told me i was!

I can't think of a system which works like you think it does other than maybe FATAL. Definitely not any edition of D&D. And D&D is easily provable as far more restrictive than real life; you can easily go from 6 to 18 STR, in a couple years.

>>55136159
Guilds always make sense. Who else is gonna beat the shit out of competing adventurer groups who offer the same services for less money?

>>55137981
And the iron proof that this guy is right is that from-infancy adoptees, by and large, turn out exactly how you'd expect blood children to.

>>55137981
dude what are genius, amirite?
Adventurers are genuises of their own
a fighter has talent for it
a mage has talent for it
its because of this they can someday summon a angel or smite a demon
ordinary people are just this, ordinary people

>>55136159
It's cliche

But sometimes cliche is fun. Sometimes it isn't. Depends on what mood you're in and how long it's been since you had an old fashioned romp in the genre classics.

>>55137378
Agreed. If your setting has a concept of adventurers as a distinct class of people it's poetically fucked beyond salvaging.

>>55137981
I completely disagree with that on a fundamental level. A retard will never be a scientist. A normal person is not so malleable. Your environment does not decide as much of you as you think. Differences are never just skin deep.
Behaviors, temperament, personality all are within your genes.
I would love to see you try and turn a group of children into physicists. The most you will be able to to do is spark an interest in science within them, but the majority of them are simple not capable of going the whole way with it.

>>55138005
It's actually quite easy in D&D. The majority of people are not above level three and never will be.

>>55136204
>Unless it's some hyper-rich and low population area

You mean like a setting where orcs, goblins and dragons roam the countryside killing off most of the population?

>>55138120
Places like that usually don't have a lot of wealth or social organization. They're just shitholes.

>>55137981
>>55138034
You are both fags, in general it's an interaction of nature and nature that determines most traits and abilities in children - yes, an interaction, so not just an additive but a multiplicative relationship, meaning it's usually better to have average genes and an average upbringing than to be great in one but shit in the other.

>>55138142
oops wrong quote
>>55138061

>>55138111
>you can't turn mass amounts of children into physicists
Anon, literally every child in the United States who doesn't go runaway or have a sub-3 INT gets a physics education that would stump Goddard or von Braun until they had some time to work their way through.
Your assumptions about genetic supremacy are easily disproven by observing anyone who was adopted in infancy or early childhood.

>>55138070
You're arguing against yourself here - your position is that an INT 18 genius commoner (actually INT 25-26, because D&D's stat scaling only supports two standard deviations in any direction, but I'll be charitable) is less suited to be a level 4 wizard than an int 8 level 3 fighter.

>>55138005
D&D? You mean the game where you can largely only be a sorcerer because of your bloodline?
Are you all retarded or something? Games that would have adventurers are built on the idea that adventurers are rare in a society.

An adventurer's guild is basically a very disorganized mercenary company.

If the focus was dungeon-delving, in a medievalesque setting and assuming a feudal system, the effect would be that nobles are just telling the peasants "hey, see that tomb that's in my land and which should be technically mine? Well, I hear it has a bunch of gold and you can all go steal it RIGHT NOW!".

It comes from American, rather than European, cultural memory. It only makes sense in settings that are the Wild West with a coat of paint

>>55138185
Anon... The majority of kids barely understand forces. You really overestimate the intelligence of the young.

>>55138191
>I have never read the DMG.

Remember how the average city of 25,000 has a more than 50-50 chance of having multiple characters of level over 15?

>>55138215
Yes, but what does that make the rest? All of those level 15 individuals are the exceptional group that I am describing. How is this difficult to understand?
For fucks sake guards are shitters in D&D. These are people who fight and guard for a fucking living.

>>55138070
Are you telling me that all fighters will inevitably become demigods one day?
No?
What is the fucking difference between a lvl 15 ftr from one who is only lvl 3?

>>55138111
I'm not talking about retards or rainmen, I'm talking about normal, average people. I too doubt I would be able to turn small children into future doctors, since that is not something that anyone can change. They're molded from birth, by their family, by the ambient they grew up with, by the culture they live in, by their friends and the people that surround them, and by their experiences.

>>55138242
>For fucks sake guards are shitters in D&D.
But this is wrong, at least if you go by the suggestions that come with the DMGs. Maybe you run it that way, but they are not supposed to be shitters that get effortlessly blown away. They are supposed to have multiple high level characters, and most of those "random" high level dudes in a city are supposed to be integrated into its power structure.

>>55138255
What if you could change all that? Do you believe they'd be capable of it?
I personally do not. I don't know why you believe in a tabula rasa.

>>55138255
>What is the fucking difference between a lvl 15 ftr from one who is only lvl 3?
the Lv15 fighter had a lot more exciting adventures

>>55138255
because not every human has the potential to go from lvl3 to lvl 15 as not every lvl 15 has the potential to become demigod

>>55138215
>>55138242
>>55138272
Just to clear it up, are you talking 3.5?

>>55138290
Anyone can go from any level to anything. They only need enough experience.

>>55138272
But they totally are. Even guard captains aren't that strong.

>>55136159
>>55136204 is right, but I'd like to imagine adventuring leagues in a different way.

In all actuality, who is an adventurer? If you were living in a pseudo-medieval setting, who would be the adventurers? The desperate, the dishonest, the zealous and so on. People who can't or won't make a living by regular means, who turn to grave robbing and pillaging to make their money.

Think of oD&D, what we're the classes? Fighter's, dudes who's only marketable skill is to kill other beings. Magic Users, seekers of unholy knowledge and users of unnatural magics. And, of course Thief's, 'nuff said there.

The only legitimate sounding class is the cleric, until you realize their class concept is "holy man who's preferable form of worship is slaying the enemies of the divine".

Later editions lost this thematic approach somewhat, but I think the core idea remains: adventurers are those living on the margins of society.

An adventurer's guild, therefore, would be not unlike a thief's guild: illegitimate, scorned, and hired only for unsavory tasks like 'clean out that dragon's nest'. I do believe that settlements nearby larger sources of pillagable treasure read:a megadungeon would have a form of adventurer's guild based on the large amount of treasure seekers drawn by rumours of quick riches.

But it would probably be treated like a criminal organization by guards, and forced to meet in secret to plan expeditions.

>>55138316
Who fed you this shit? Your mother? 'yes dear you can be an Olympian gold winning wrestler and create a unifying theory of physics is you just try hard enough'

>>55138316
this is mechanics wise, its the same to say that anyone can be a einstein in life, it's a lie and plain stupid as well

>>55138185
>Anon, literally every child in the United States who doesn't go runaway or have a sub-3 INT gets a physics education that would stump Goddard or von Braun until they had some time to work their way through.
This is bait, right? Please tell me it's bait.

>>55138191
You can have adventurers rare in a society without having them be a (((chosen people))). I'm arguing that the level 10 adventurer is special because he's level 10, other guy is arguing that the level 10 adventurer is always level 10 because he has a ~magical destiny~.

>>55138207
"Barely understanding" modern physics is still a greater understanding of the laws of nature than the ancient or not-so-ancient greats could muster, and we somehow choke it out of every single person not in a protective helmet.
Can we force everyone to WANT to go do the hard work of research? Of course not, but it's certainly a trainable task for large portions of the populace.

>>55138255
But that's my point - they're molded by their experiences, not by very much inborn (and especially not by inborn things not accounted for in stat rolls).

>>55138382
There's no destiny involved. The level 10 adventurer simply has the capability to be one. He could be level 1 for life, but he has the capability of being level 10.

>>55138382
They don't understand modern physics though. Not even a little bit. Regurgitating facts is NOT understanding.

>>55138358
I'm not saying that. You're missing the whole point.
What I'm saying is that the brain from a fetus is a blank slate that can become anything depending on what you feed it. Genetics can change small things here and there but it's all about the baggage.
Einstein wasn't a super human.
There is no "super human gene" that differentiates underachievers from geniuses.

>>55136590
Literally all the Free Peoples were on the brink of extinction. The elves were going west, the dwarves had mostly got wrecked by dragons centuries prior, and Gondor reduced into a powerless vestigial empire. Minas Tirith was just a fortress, they'd got kicked out of the actual city. And they organized the Fellowship because somehow sneaking into Mordor and destroying the Ring was the only chance they had against Sauron, who had orcish armies which likely outnumbered the entirety of the rest of the population and also controlled the whole East

>>55138382
>"Barely understanding" modern physics is still a greater understanding of the laws of nature than the ancient or not-so-ancient greats could muster
Did you consider that itt takes FAR less cognitive ability and studying to learn something already well understood that you got taught by people who have mastered the subject and were even trained in teaching it to others then having to come up with it by yourself?
The question you have to ask is not how many kids can do algebra it's how many could invent algebra.

>>55138427
>Einstein was normal
No he wasn't. He was a cut much farther above.

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>>55138005
>I can't think of a system which works like you think it does other than maybe FATAL. Definitely not any edition of D&D.

um

>>55138424
But both in the rules as written and in direct, measurable real life analogues, everyone not literally a vegetable has the potential to hit level 10 in a class, if not all classes. You're the one who needs inborn snowflakeness to get your rocks off.

>>55138424
Spoiler: literally no one has an understanding of physics other than "these regurgitations are close enough". Gravity? We don't know how or why. Light? We don't even know exactly WHAT. There's no consensus on the number of dimensions, never mind what makes the list.
I don't think you understand the point of science or the scientific method, to be honest, if you're so down on the rote manipulation of measured facts in favor of ~inspiration~.

>>55138455
Second full para, sixth sentence. "The captain of the company may be a 12-level fighter."

You sure are convincing me that 5e non-adventurers cap out at level 3, anon. Fire citations there. :^)

>>55138479
We actually have quite a good grasp on many aspects of modern physics. Just because there are questions does not mean there is no understanding.
What about modern physics do children know? Please tell me I'm waiting.

>Everyone has the capability to hit level 10
Maybe in your campaign, but if you forgot the point of this thread was arguing about the purpose of an adventurer guild and I said that it makes sense to have one since the average army man is low level and will always be low level and is incapable of becoming a higher level.
Also thinking like yours leads to the domination of lesser races by beings such as elves since logically they would have many many many high level individuals since there is no cap.

>>55138508
Have you willfully been ignoring my arguments? I never said that ONLY adventurers could be high level. All I said is that they have the capability to be such and average Joe doesn't.

>>55138508
you're skirting the point, a 12th level fighter is still an exceptional *individual*, whether an adventurer or leader of an army. the point being disputed here >>55138005 was that "a normal soldier could only ever attain MAYBE a few levels in fighter" in D&D. as the text makes clear, no army of any significant size is going to consist of more than 2nd level troops, because there simply aren't enough fighters of higher levels to compose a sizable force.

>>55138590
Gravity being a wave, say, or that the universe is expanding, are both discoveries that quite literally postdate the lives of your old masters but are now high school physics and newspaper headline fodder.

And you still haven't come up with any reason that the average soldier can't achieve a higher lever other than "nuh-uh, the rules say he can but he actually can't!"

>>55138605
There is absolutely nothing in RAW or real-life analogy that provides that any given level 2 fighter's potential caps out at level 2 because he's a reeeeeeeenormie. You're trying your damned hardest to cram "only special people can achieve" into "people who have achieved are special for it", which is really revealing your shaky grasp on basic logic.

>>55138508
Did you ignore the rest of the text, which said it was a rarity for a common soldier to be even a 1st level fighter and that being one was often enough to get promoted to an officer purely off your merits? The point of the 12th level fighter example was not "yeah, all captains all 12th level", it's "if the captain is 12th level that does not necessarily mean the king is 20th level".

>>55138704
learning what gravity does is one thing
learning why it does, or how it does is another entirely different thing dude.
these fags with everyone is equal are truly stupid

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>>55138704
you're a stubborn guy

>Only a few people actually attain any character level. Not every soldier who fights in a war becomes a fighter. Not every urchin who steals an apple from the marketplace becomes a thief. The characters with classes and levels have them because they are in some way special.

>>55136159
Should be mercenary guilds like in renaissance Italy that operate under the permission of the local ruler.

Basically what he said>>55136204

>>55138708
Gaining levels being a rarity does not imply that a unique spark, rather than just effort, is required to gain levels. Everyone without muscular or skeletal degeneration can quite literally train themselves up to 18 STR in reality, given effort - yet 18 STR is still rare.

>>55138759
Anon, we don't know why or how gravity does what it does. All we have are the approximations - and while they're getting better year by year the improvements, of course, follow the laborious testing of observational data rather than flashes of inspiration.

>>55138795
Make up your mind, anon. Is the bar of super mommylovesme-ness going from level 0 to 1, or 3 to 4, or what? One of your cites says that 0 to 1 is everything, but you've said before you don't mind level 1 or 2 normal people. Another of your cites says that 0 to 1 is common and all the way up to at least 12 is plausible for an accomplished non-adventurer, but you don't like the second part.

>>55138901
i meant understand the logic of why gravity does what does is diferent than simply knowing that it does what it does.

>>55138921
But we quite literally don't have an understanding of that. None of us do. We have several guesses, no more than one of which but possibly none of which can be right.

I'm really not sure where your understanding of science comes from. Do you think that enlightened masterminds just have eureka moments, while only plebs sit around observing and describing things?

>>55138901
>Everyone without muscular or skeletal degeneration can quite literally train themselves up to 18 STR in reality, given effort - yet 18 STR is still rare.
False equivalency, and also plain wrong if you stop being so myopic about 3d6 stats. Most people are physically incapable of becoming anything more than mediocre powerlifters (and athletes in general), and weighlifting is not a comparable skill to being an exceptionally competent warrior, which most people can't do either.

>>55138950

The point he's trying to make is that trivia doesn't necessarily equate into intelligence. A modern child knows more than old masters of physics, but there is a difference between knowing F= ma because my teacher said so and something about mass, and discovering that relationship through rigorous study and calculation.

>>55139005
Why do you consider using the rules as written, rather than in defense of your broken and disproven worldview, myopic?

Why do you consider "disinterested in" to mean "incapable of", when surrounded by so many examples of people's capabilities changing as their circumstances change?

>>55139071
But rigorous study and calculation are exactly the effort-not-spark, or indeed effort-not-intelligence, part that even elementary school children are trained in en masse.

>>55138950
Theoretical physics is different from the stuff they teach you in school. Knowing what e=mc2 means does not equal being able to understand the actual mathematical proof, nor that a modern person being put into the 17th would become the new Newton using his high school-level knowledge

>>55138901
>Another of your cites says that 0 to 1 is common and all the way up to at least 12 is plausible for an accomplished non-adventurer, but you don't like the second part.

none of the text implies that 0 to 1 is common. would you like to quote that directly? it's quite clear in all parts of the text that level 1 characters are in some way special.

i will accept your point there is no inherent divide between a level 1 character and a level 12 character, except experience or whatever, so feel free to focus on the above question.

>>55139086
Because most people LITERALLY CAN'T become Olympic athletes. As in, the average individual could spend a entire fucking lifetime training to be as fast as Usain Bolt and still fail because unlike Bolt, the average individual isn't a genetic freak of nature with a body nigh-perfectly suited for sprinting

>>55136159
I love anime!

Heroes get their levels through experience. Obviously an army of levied soldiers will be full of level 2 fighters fresh from the training grounds, but implying that ONLY adventurers and exceptional NPCs get levels above that is retarded to the nth degree. Do manhunters and bandits never have to fight eachother? Do hunting parties never learn anything from all those dire wolves they kill? Does the Lord of the land never bring out any regular enforcers to clear out bandits and monster dens? Does the concept of a military force START at battalion strength and never shrink below that size?

>>55136159
>I want an RPG campaign that's adapted from anime that's adapted from vidya that's adapted from RPGs that are adapted from fantasy novels
Jesus christ anon just read a book or something. Adding another link to human centipede isn't doing anyone any favors

>>55136977
>>That your character isn't special
I have always hated this about D&D. It diminishes my accomplishments to call my character special. So kys. My character is a normal commoner that has learned and grown through experience.

>>55139198
its cause hes nigger
literally african are build to run
truly a race of cowards

>>55139274
>he prefer to be a pleb than to be a chosen of GOD!
wew

>>55139198
To make it clearer before you reply: Think about basketball. The average height in the NBA is 6'7. A normal-sized person is a fucking dwarf compared to that. There are some short people who've made it there, but that's because they have a DIFFERENT type of genetic gift. For example, Muggsy Bogues is 5'3, but a little known fact is that how tall you can leap is mostly determined by genetics, not training. It happened that while he was shit out of luck in the height department, he could also jump really fucking high to compensate. A "normal" 5'3 individual could never be Muggsy, no matter how much effort they put in

>>55139139
Math is so thoroughly a product of putting together pretaught axioms that we universally do it with electronic machines after a few decades of doing it with mechanical machines where economically feasible. It requires less spark and genius, and more effort and training in the specific complicated way the pretaught concepts are expressed in writing, then making a goddamn Big Mac.
It's, in other words, a shining example of how you don't have to be special, you just have to be driven.

>>55139158
First cite, first-second full para. Your argument, to begin with, is that only adventurers had the spark, yet your cite shows a notable chunk of each year's feudal levy passing muster for Ftr1.

>>55139198
The difference between Bolt and average high school varsity (so a couple years training) is less than half the difference between high school varsity and untrained. Nature makes him the best, but even the slightest amount of nurture dings you as close to "best alive" as would be unlocking your 7th-level spells or third attack per round.

>>55139325
Great analogy, I really like it. How do starting stats relate to being able to gain levels past a certain point?

>>55136159
In our game "Adventurer's Guild" is a euphemism for a brothel. There's one in every town and it's a place to swap gold for "experience"

>>55139261
>Obviously an army of levied soldiers will be full of level 2 fighters fresh from the training grounds
An army would be full of level 2 soldiers or other NPC class, something completely different- and often weaker than- a fighter. There may be a couple fighters, sure, but to say that every, or even most soldiers have levels in fighter is a complete misunderstanding of what the fighter class is.

>>55139325
>basketball is only played by centers
Average point guard's 6'1".
Is jumping height something far more granular that does have specific, measured genetic implications? Sure. But it, even combined with vertical reach, is only a small, small part of playing basketball well, and playing basketball well is only a small, small part of being an accomplished athlete.

>>55139373
>First cite, first-second full para.

says that fighters draw from the largest pool of talent. it doesn't say that fighters themselves are common.

>From these ranks SOME go on to become 1st level fighters.

>>55139570
You're making the outlandish claim not supported by any of the associated fluff and outright repudiated by both other paragraphs and later editions, it's on you to prove that when they said "some" they meant "absolutely none other than PCs".

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>>55136159
An adventurer's guild is only as good as the girl running it is cute.

>>55136159
My only real experience of such was how we had this one drawfag in our group, and when a rotating GM asked him to illustrate an adventurer's guild for an upcoming game he was running, Dan drew in this battered building, with broken windows and a door hanging half off it's hinges, covered in graffiti, most prominent and in bright green letters of

>USE THE FUCKING KNOB

Said adventurer's guild failed to appear in the actual game, probably because none of us would be able to interact with anything in it without laughing.

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>>55139610
>outlandish claim

it's explicitly stated by the book itself >>55138795

>outright repudiated by both other paragraphs

which you can't quote

>and later editions

but that's wrong too.

>But even 1st level characters are heroes, set apart from the common people by natural characteristics, learned skills, and the hint of a greater destiny that lies before them.

>>55136159

Not a problem if the world has a decent number of adventurers (for whatever reasons) and these adventurerers aren't a problem for the powers that be - ie if they're not strong enough to kill the king in his sleep.

>that being said a wise king should control these by default.

>>55139379
This is one of those things where 3.5's simulationism was useful. At large, real life "peak-human" stuff could be achieved by 5th level characters with good stats, and you could roughly stat a lot of "great" historical figures as 5th level characters of an NPC class. Level 6 is when you get into low-key superhuman feats, and that's part of the reasoning behind E6. So a "normal" but highly educated and trained person like a doctor could probably be represented as being from 1st to 3rd level. Someone who is among the best of a generation is 4-5th level.

In older editions, you couldn't join a class if you had less than a 9 in their prime requisite, and stat bonuses also translated to an XP bonus. So one of the functions of stats is literally knowing how naturally gifted you are for your class, using a bell curve 3d6 roll. And the game largely ignored levels past 10. Only spellcasters continued to progress meaningfully. Those editions nudged you to stop playing your character as an individual and switch to "domain-level" play around those levels. So, in the absence of the necessary subsystems, your best choice to represent a "peak-human" historical individual is to fantasy them up into a PC class, of levels maybe 8-10. Otherwise, the truly "average" inexperienced Joe is treated as a Normal Man or 0-level Fighter with appropriate skills chosen and applied via GM fiat. The overwhelming majority of people have the potential to be at least one class, but surviving long enough to get to high levels complicates the matter.

>>55139812
>This is one of those things where 3.5's simulationism was useful. At large, real life "peak-human" stuff could be achieved by 5th level characters with good stats, and you could roughly stat a lot of "great" historical figures as 5th level characters of an NPC class. Level 6 is when you get into low-key superhuman feats, and that's part of the reasoning behind E6
Please. You look at the way something like competitive chess works and there's no way you can fit meaningful skill brackets into 6th level characters. Part of that is the enormous randomness a d20 introduces, but still, the degrees of skill in competitive endeavors does not model well, at all.

>>55139812
Also, I'm pretty sure there were was information about expected demographics for AD&D

>>55139773
The edition you just posted literally specifies that adventurers are people with high stat rolls and comes with a starter adventure detailing semi-trained commoners unlocking their class features, so...

>>55139864
That's one of the issues with the argument, but it works at a high level of abstraction. See this essay. http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/587/roleplaying-games/dd-calibrating-your-expectations-2

>>55139932
Also, just to make it clear, I disagree with all that shit making 3.5 a "good" system. The simulationist part is just well made.

>>55136204
Those existed in Japan when the imperial center figured that they didn't need a standing army any longer and that their policy had actually left behind a good selection of highly trained local militas which needed to be both included into and kept at arm's length of the actual political apparatus.

It's what happens when you go from a high degree of militarization to a lower one fast.

Of course, under a different political system what you'll get out of the same situation are outlaw legends and the KKK.

>>55140093
Not him but Adventurers are basically ronin, right?

>>55137329
No shit. Have you ever noticed that shonen protags that people give a shit about, as opposed to the hordes of bland betas, are the outspoken ones who don't fit the Japanese mold? It's all about not "reading the air" and not caring whether you do or not. Breaking that stifling mask of tatemae.
What I'm saying is that Naruto and DBZ are true JapPunk

I don't like the ones in anime, as they're represented. Loose collections of, essentially, bounty hunters and exterminators that are somehow sanctioned by everyone, and get ridiculous amounts of money, while operating on a national level, mostly.

I prefer my adventurer guilds to be smaller, about the size of an average party, from 4 to 10 people, and operating in a smaller regional area. And, if they do get big enough to operate at a national level, I want them to be more rigidly structured, like a mercenary company.

>>55137500
Sounds like someone's been playing too much Sengoku Rance.

jk, there's no such thing as too much Rance
unless you're female

>>55138427
You're completely incorrect. Fluid intelligence is highly heritable, and predicts excellence in just about all known disciplines reliant on intelligence. Twin studies prove that upbringing is not the only factor determining intelligence.

There is no individual gene, no, but several that work in tandem. The notion of fetus as tabula rasa is objectively wrong.

That said, it doesn't require MUCH genetic superiority to be considered someone worthy of being called a genius. You do need to be a standard deviation or two above, but the rest can be made up for with a lot of hard work, if Feynman is anyone to go by.

>>55140122
Only in the wandering sense.
A ronin is a masterless samurai, whether through death or dishonor. Most wandered, some went to serve another lord, others became banditsz

>>55139373
>Math is so thoroughly a product of putting together pretaught axioms that we universally do it with electronic machines after a few decades of doing it with mechanical machines where economically feasible. It requires less spark and genius, and more effort and training in the specific complicated way the pretaught concepts are expressed in writing, then making a goddamn Big Mac.
Confirmed for someone who has never studied math beyond engineering.

Take an introductory number theory course (which will require you to already be well-versed in group theory, set theory, complex analysis, Galois theory, etc.) and you'll realize how stupid you're sounding.

Anything a computer that you personally own could do, is not math as we understand it as a field of study.

>>55141410
>>55139373
Actually, out of interest, since you seem to be familiar with the term "axiom" but probably have no idea what that involves: What are some axioms you think we are taught, in order to do math? Because there is not a single child who has learned about the currently more-or-less accepted set of axioms through the child's school curriculum, this I'd wager with absolute certainty.

>>55141336
Intelligence isn't heritable. Its all about the upbringing.

>>55141479
>IQ doesn't real

>>55141479
Define intelligence.

>>55136285
That is also stupid.

>>55141554
IQ isn't inheritable.

>>55141597
When your kid knows how to think. A black kid raised by white parents is smarter than a black kid raised by ghetto parents.

Smart people raise their children smarter, but that doesn't mean intelligence is heritable, its all about the upbringing.

>>55141641
>When your kid knows how to think
This is binary, not quantitative. A categorical variable.

If a kid knows how to think, they have intelligence.
>A black kid raised by white parents is smarter than a black kid raised by ghetto parents.
Begging the question. How can someone be "smarter" if you have yet to define "intelligence" in anything but a categorical sense.

Your definition belies your lack of intelligence.

Come up with a better definition, dumbass. Try again.

>>55141641
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3935975/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4356746/

Yes it is.

>>55141641
Ahh yes, the "I'm just as smart as anyone else! HONEST!" special.

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>>55141641
>IQ isn't inheritable

Wrong. It's both quantifiable (as g) and general, has strong predictive power, and correlates to a series of known SNPs in DNA. The hereditability is extreme compared to more pedestrian traits.

There have been dozens, perhaps hundreds of studies proving this, since at least the 1980s. Try starting with the US National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health.

why exactly would someone join such a guild? Is it just because it handles the business development and account management? Seriously? Why not go direct?

Is it more like a union then? Do guild members hunt down scabs who try to break a strike?

>No ebins
Fuck you, BugBug!

>>55143909
why does one join any guilds? centralised and streamlined business models
its a trope in rpgs because for a period(long or short depending on the country) you had guilds for everything from candlemakers to butchers

and depending on when/where your talking about this was a monopoly that did allow prosecution of "scabs" in a sense yes

>>55138316

Why are you so upset about this? People are not born equal. Given equal opportunities, some will do better than others. It's just how things work.

Adventurers are anomalies. It's like the Exalted: not *every* mortal or every Dragon-blooded child Exalts. Those who do are special.

>>55136355
...hentai?
>>55136159
Shoot I run one has my pick up game. Get telported all over the world to deal will magical spikes. It let's me run an ice adventure, prehistoric dinosaur battles, wizard Labyrinth, underwater kingdom , sky whale hunting, zombie apocalypse, Aztec temple or crime thriller all with the same group of pcs without them needing a reason for the setting change.
They have rival groups that they are on both friendly and unfriendly terms with.
They work there way up through the ranking and (I think) they feel good a out getting to a new ranking. It's like xp for the whole group.
>>55136977
You can't throw a stick without hitting a bandit cheif in dnd that's level appropriate. The guild setting let's you take jobs your skill rank and it males sense. Otherwise you get wiped because you stumble upon a monster you shouldn't be fighting or everything is a challenge for pcs of your level, JUST BY CHANCE.

>>55143909
>Is it just because it handles the business development and account management?

Guilds handle centralised taxes, trade secrets, primitive copyright/trademark systems, apprenticeship systems, business loans, state granted monopolies.

Notably the earliest medieval corporations formed from groups of guilds collaborating to lock down deals within cities - in that context, an adventurer guild would be a caravan guard/security/knee-capper organisation that gives the Guilds' corporation a strong arm to resist state opposition to anything they do.

The equivalent of Lone Star Security or similar from cyberpunk settings.

I just want to butt in now that I'm home from work, but as the guy who wrote >>55136204, I didn't really mean it in the sense that only some people are tough or skilled enough to be adventurers. I meant something a bit different.

A society that is capable of amassing the kind of information and organization to run a anime style JRPG adventurer's guild wouldn't allow a bunch of high powered murderhobos to run around and do more or less whatever the fuck they want. And if they can't stop them, and the world is in fact dominated by 4-6 man parties of extremely lethal people, I seriously doubt that things will be wealthy and organized enough to have adventurer's guilds. (Or much in the way of cities or civilization as we know it).

>>55145708
Truth be told you don't really get mhbs in fiction. It's purely a tabletop game with people with poor impulse control.
>Inb4 there's a mhb in this anime/movie/book

The usual setting everyone I know plays in has guilds.

They're not really 'adventuring' guilds, though. They're closer to groups full of level 20 fucks filled to the brim with legendary, unheard of weapons that are a fucking BITCH to kill. Like, some of them just have an orb in their blood which gives them the ability to infinitely cast True Polymorph on themselves, but only into dragons. The DM literally had to make a new combat system just so you could beat these people.

It's so fucking fun.

I robbed the leader of one of these guild's houses and stole one of his legendary weapons at second level, though. it was fun.

>>55138330
Now this I can get behind.

>>55136497
These types of questions seem to be more problems with the idea of heroes who are stronger than the rest as opposed to adventurer's guilds specifically.

[Setting Element: Advenuring as a Profession]

>Adventurers as a career choice describes part-timers, free lance mercenaries, and unwanted children being sent on adventures for powerful artifacts that no one has been able to find.

>Adventuring guilds specialize in finding jobs for propective adventurers. You pay to register as an adventurer, and you must renew your membership monthly.

>Guilds vary in the guidelines they distribute, aside from the golden rule of not attacking other guild members (Your guild or not). Completing jobs clear you for promotion within the guild, and unlock more rewarding but harder jobs.

>However, there are limitations on the sort of requests that can be assigned to guild mission boards. A request to pick apples belong no where near a guild of sellswords, and all guilds are reigned in by a central government.

>Requests that cannot be placed upon the board are known as "Black-Rank" requests. These do not have the protection. nor the support of the guilds and are often illegal. Completing these do not further the adventurer's rank in any form and they may be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. (The central government does not allow requests that form inquiries into private matters, nor does it support requests that denote gathering evidence to start a town lynching.)

>Adventurers have no more authority then your common citizen, and are merely overlooked in the actions they commit. As long they help, they are allowed to operate as long they don't go against the government. Such adventurers that do so are branded bandits with nationwide bounties on their heads. Still, higher ranked adventurers become well-known and powerful on very rare occasion, granting them an unspoken air of leadership in certain situations.

>>55136159
Stupid and hamfisted. If you live in a society where resources and danger are plenteful enough to support such a guild then clearly no government is doing their job. I dont care how tough the monster is, you can probably bring it down with a few thousand doods.

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>>55136159
I just commissioned one in the city I run, so I'm for them.
Entirely coincidentally, I'm also assisting in preliminary testing of what's pretty much a gun that shoots magic missiles, to be rolled out to city watch and military units as resources allow.

>>55139611
sauce on this?

Super fucking lame.

>>55143819
>Caring about IQ
>studies proving this

>>55136769
In many Japanese settings they are not national level, but international level. Like Salvation Army, but on drug.

>>55136204
In many Japanese settings "Dungeon" are seen as infinitely replenishing mine that will never run out of rare stuffs to dig/skin/collect. Adventurer guild is basically miner's guild, but with ten times more sword than pickaxe.

>>55136159
They seem somewhat pointless. That's what the Knight class was for.

I just really wish that any time the Japanese think FANTASY they don't default to Dragon Quest.

Granted the west is no better when we default to Tolkien but well at least we read a damn book.

Isn't Karak Kadrin basically one in Warhammer setting?

>>55137677
That implies the Kingdom wouldn't just develop a branch of the army dedicated to that. It's like not the US Armed Forces contracted out its airforce needs to Southwest Airlines.

What about an Adventurer's Guild that operates as a transnational organization that handles problems other countries cant or wont deal with for a fee?

>>55150192
Problem is government tend not to do certain things as good as private organisations that run their own shit. The red tape alone will seriously hinder the effectiveness of the adventurers.

For real life, think charity for example.

>>55140122
No, Ronin are a problem. They're a side-effect of having too damn many people in a non-productive and highly stratified and centralized military class that has been made to fail to reap the benefits of the shifting economy for a couple of generations.

>>55141336
In the end, the genes mean nothing if you can consistently make the mum drink water full of lead during pregnancy.

>>55148725
>what are private security contractors

>>55136159
I actually like the idea, but it only works in 2 ways.

1. It's a method of regulation for Kings and Dukes and shit to both control all these armed vagabonds wandering around the fringes of their societies AND get a cut of the loot, in exchange for having to put up with the SHIT they stir up.

2. High fantasy world where dungeons are self replenishing resource mines

>>55138330
>Think of oD&D, what we're the classes? Fighter's, dudes who's only marketable skill is to kill other beings. Magic Users, seekers of unholy knowledge and users of unnatural magics. And, of course Thief's, 'nuff said there.
>The only legitimate sounding class is the cleric
OD&D only had Fighters, Magic-users, and Clerics. The Thief was added by a supplement.

>>55150854
>1. It's a method of regulation for Kings and Dukes and shit to both control all these armed vagabonds wandering around the fringes of their societies

Generally they regulated them by partition.

And with that I mean by chopping them into pieces and putting those pieces on display on poles erected at the cardinal directions.

>>55151014

We also didn't have roaming bands of orcs and flame spitting dragons, you know.

>>55151014
Yes but then you don't get the loot.

It's an astonishingly wonderful scam. A bunch of nobodies go out doing dangerous shit, you get a cut of their take, they're deniable and you can always villify them for political purposes.

Adventurers stop Astragoth the Dick Lich? Clearly it was done on your orders, with your support, your government is praised for it's cunning action.

Crops fail? Clearly something the Adventurers did.

Either way you continue to tax them. They're like hookers, but with violence

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>>55149380
http://kissmanga.com/Manga/Tondemo-Skill-de-Isekai-Hourou-Meshi

It's from the 5th chapter I think? It's also an isekai so that might turn you off, but I actually enjoy it a lot.

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>>55150175
>but well at least we read a damn book
>he thinks the people who constantly rip off Tolkien have actually read his works
Where do you think the stereotype of elves being smug prissies comes from? Not Tolkien. If fantasy is like the Human Centipede, Tolkien is the guy at the front and modern fantasy is what's shat out by the guy in the back.

>>55148637
,,, I'm going to write a high level apple picking quest now.

i quite like them because they are just blatanly made for a fantasy universe in which monsters literaly spawn in places or invade all the time

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>>55151334

Okay... that was well put.

>>55150854
>>55150854
I'd add:
3. The setting is somewhat post-apocalyptic (either in the Fallout sense or "Some major magical disaster happened which killed the old Empire" way), and whoever's governing doesn't have the resources to expand the borders through conventional military force - but encouraging adventurers to go out there, earn their fortune, and stake out little baronies for themselves is the next best thing because it means the threats in the wilderness get taken care of and you end up with neighbours who are mostly reasonably well-disposed towards you thanks to the help you gave them in their early career through your sponsorship of the guild.

It's like TSR D&D and its assumptions about people getting baronies for themselves once they get to high level - an artifact of it basically being fantasy Wild West, but still appropriate to some settings.

>>55151014
That's if the government has the power to actually do it...and even then, that action essentially vilifies literally everyone with sufficient power/talent but refuse to work for the gov't.

Honestly that's an incredibly retarded way to run a country.

>>55151879
In particular, it assumes that you are more afraid of people becoming powerful in their own right than you are of whatever monstrous threats are out there in the wilderness.

For real world politics, sure, there's nothing more dangerous out in the wild than wolf packs. In a fantasy world I can totally see how setting up adventurers to become powerful in their own right, whilst intrinsically a politically risky move, can still seem like an improvement over whatever monstrosities the adventurers kill while getting there. You can at least negotiate with a self-made baron and attempt to persuade them to work with you instead of against you; you can't necessarily negotiate with a demon horde in the same way.

>>55151838
Wilderness makes no money. Frankly speaking, the frontriersmen of the US were poor who ate dirt to survive for generations, so you'd either have to find some really desperate folks and actively displace them or make an actual organized effort at colonization. And, once again, even in the US case, the fake land sales that were the fist step towards ethnic cleansing were mainly done because the Founding Fathers and others involved in the business knew that the crown would have their back with its armies when the Americans would actually put up organized resistance to the encroachment.

Either way, it's not a problem that's going to take care of itself like a deflating balloon.

In Europe, those small baronies were created by armed groups shanghai'ing and terrorizing already existing local populations into building fortifications for them, which then worked as force multipliers that allowed them to continuously rob said population while being able to sleep safe on their stolen goods.

>>55152069
You like to use real world examples for this stuff, which is fine for games set in the real world or close equivalents thereof, but the facts on the ground in a fantasy setting might yield a different outcome. Say that the wilderness consists of the lands of a great empire that fell in a horrible magical cataclysm, and it's been too dangerous to even consider going there until recently, but now the kingdom's heartland is secure and people can contemplate undertaking expeditions to rediscover the riches of the old empire. The wilderness in this case offers potentially great reward at substantial risk, so your "Wilderness makes no money" point is moot.

>>55151879
>Honestly that's an incredibly retarded way to run a country.

You're one sweet summer child.

>>55152093
That's on the level of the fur trade, then. It will make the well-connected wholesellers rich, not the hunters.

>>55152148
Must be a pretty special fur that can be sold at any jeweller's, or magically enhance your personal capabilities, or teach you to cast spells you didn't previously know, or...

>>55152094
>You're one sweet summer child
still better than a complete retard.

>>55136159
The Hunter Association from Hunter X Hunter is the best and most believable Adventurers Guilt in any piece of media.

>>55152191
Look bro, if there's a regular flow of valuable material, then somebody will set themselves up to buy it below market price in a flash. It's how RL economy works. With jewels you'll have a monopolist guild in charge of jewel/gold-trade and money-lending in a flash, simply because the money required to pay for those precious stones needs to come from somewhere in the first place and somebody also needs to organize an protect the regular flow of cash.

With unknown magical artifacts it's basically a "Roadside Picknic" or Earthdawn-type-situation where you don't wanna mess with shit you don't understand, so there naturally will be a monopolist of people who can handle, identify and potentially destroy that stuff.

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>>55151334
>If fantasy is like the Human Centipede, Tolkien is the guy at the front and modern fantasy is what's shat out by the guy in the back.

>>55150303
>>In the end, the genes mean nothing if you can consistently make the mum drink water full of lead during pregnancy.
...that's the single most retarded thing you could possibly have said in response

>>55152191

Have you ever owned any Beaver pelts? So you don't know, do you?

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>>55136159
>Comrade! Hey Comrade!
>What!?
>Why don't you just join the union? We'll go upstairs and cap daddy!
>This union, there gonna be meetings?
>Of course! :D
>No meetings.

>>55152715
A monopoly like... like a sort of *guild*, you mean?